Petra vs Mecca - Using Quran to Debunk Dan Gibson's Sacred City Argument

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Video Notes: qurantalkblog.com/
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Podcast: apple.co/2lLnsFE
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Quran Study Website: www.quranstudyapp.com/grid
Additional Resources: www.masjidtucson.org

[@phillipoleary2532]

Your statement that it's your duty to disregard any information that contradicts the Koran, seems to be a lack of any intellectual ability.

[@hamedkadkhodaie]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGPGdnx6j9x6a68

[@Rikard_A]

@ムスタファ He never say muslim should stop praying towards Mecca, Saudi Arabia. Dan Gibson in accordance to himself was only intresseted at first to find out how many mosque pointed to Jerusalem and when and why it changed to Mecca, Saudi Arabia.

[@adnanadill]

And missing places in Petra.. 1) Prophet Mohammed SLAWS was raised in Taif by Halima RAA 2) Visit of Taif in Early Islam 3) Abraha went for Yemen with elephant to Petra to destroy Kaba ? 4) Where is Arabic speaking population in Petra 5) Why Its name remained Petra and who named it Petra ? 6) Kabristan / graveyard kaha hai jo musalman waha mare ? 7) ha ha ha Zam Zam fountain ?? 8) The Mina station from where Huj starts ?? 9) Maidaan e Arfaat where Huj is done ?? 10) Musdilafaa station where 3 days are rested ?? 11) station of Jumraat,, without which Huj is not complete 12) Ghaar E Sor / cave of Sor ?? 13) Where is the Ground of Bader and Uhood 14) What is the travelling time from Pertra to Madina ? Where are all this ?????????? You Should know Without visiting the Arfaat your Hujj is not complete Without staying at Meena and Musdilfaa your Hujj is not complete how can people visit a place travelling, struggling and spending that is not according to Quran 2:158 HA HA HA HA THE LIVING PROOF Allah SWT who plans two journey at Mairaj One to Jerusalem and Second to skies, why ? Why He planned these Two Journeys in One ? And that Greatest Planner Allah SWT will leave Qibla at hands of stupids to play with it ? Whole your struggle has been proved fake your video an attempt to fabricated Allah program Makkah has 4 sides 1) Right Side of Makkah Arabic Yameen Countries on right side Yemen 2) Left side of Makkah Arabic Yassar Countries on right side Syria 3) Back side of Makkah Waraa Countries on backside Africa 4) Behind Makkah Arabic Hind countries Be-Hind is Hind, Hindu, Hindustan English too uses Arabic Word behind from Hind English Tamarind Arabic Tamer-Hind do these directions possible with Patra ??

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

Gibson is a fanatic funny christian

[@MohamedAhmed-eg3mh]

He even rejected the verse of changing the Qibla from Jerusalem to macca ..with his way of thinking I can prove Rome was in Afghanistan

[@BasitKhanSafi]

Bro, your first argument is good but ur 2nd point is not good enough for me. Research means not to start by thinking you already know the truth. You should be neutral.

[@noman4021985]

I would urge anyone to read article 'The Petra Fallacy' by Professor David A. King. For me, Dan Gibson lost all his credibility when he started mixing with Christian Missionaries. I would urge anyone serious about finding the truth to read the Article by David A. King. Dan Gibson has missed so many things out of his research and after reading the article, Dan Gibson sounds like an amateur christian Missionary

[@kumafandzaan]

@@noman4021985 It's been said that King never visited these sites he wrote about, but Gibson spent decades there. Is that true?

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@noman4021985 Dan knows where his bread is buttered!

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@kumafandzaan no Gibson went to different buildings not even masjids or lied about his research. The true Qibla is easily found by observing the shadows cast by objects on specific dates in May and July every twice yearly. Early Muslims didn't even know that bc they followed a lunar calendar. It was discovered in the 13th century only by alTusi and another scientist. Even Dan must know this.

[@kevinsavasci7311]

@@Diamondraw4Real Sunnis and Shias why 2 sects who cant agree on anything, Hadiths are best thing to divide Muslims. If you read the Quran being in a sect is forbidden, follow the Messenger by following the message "QURAN"

[@trailrunning11vlog]

Suugest you debate dan gibson. Because evrything you said is useless because you dont have evidence unlike dan.

[@thepassionofgodshousetpgh8763]

He won’t suggest a debate because he will be busted

[@Asadullah-io5qq]

@@thepassionofgodshousetpgh8763 I had a discussion directly with dan gibson and it was very funny to see his answers. i did a video from my discussion with him. kzbin.info/www/bejne/j3OWoZdmlr14mLc

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@Peace Lover *Allah

[@Diamondraw4Real]

Quran tells Mekkans that olives come from mount/tur Sinai or somehwere up North near that area in ME not anywhere near where Mekkah today is found. Why would there be anything but dates and water in Mekkah. Please see my channel videos I give references for my opinions. The wall around Mekka isn't missing there was a wall outside Taif where Muhammad PBUH rested. Grapes were imported not grown in Mekkah but Dan G says a prisoner had grapes. They were miracle grapes from God bc it was not the season for grapes anywhere. Dan G pretends that was in Jordan but it wasn't.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@thepassionofgodshousetpgh8763 lol he already debunked the meaning of Becca as weeping, and Umm Al Qura as meaning Petra. Mekkah is the place of pilgrimage for millions every year and holiest site in Islam. We don't care what Dan G thinks. He also hates on polygyny bc it's not the so called "perfect" way to live. Well, Islam is practical and has solutions that work in reality. Whereas Christianity has many false stories deficient in morality and no solutions for women who want to marry bc even though Abraham marries 2 good women the bible makes it a story about racist supremacy and nothing to do with good ppl who are raising good children to worship God.

[@kmalimulhoque2164]

Very nicely put. God bless you. ❤

[@qurancentric7459]

Peace be upon you, Unfortunately many of the counter-arguments provided in this video are erroneous. 1. You stated that Becca is 'another' name for Mecca. This claim alone is faulty. If we trust that every word/letter of the Quran is accurate and divine, and no mistakes have been made, then Mecca and Becca are two distinct words. It is only in traditional Islamic thought that Becca is 'another' name for Mecca. But to me, it isn't. It's simply another word. Additionally, the bible states 'valley of Baka' - so if anything, the word Mecca in the Quran would be wrong IF we assumed there was some confusion with Becca. 2. You stated that 'mother of cities' in Saudi Arabia doesn't necessarily mean the city -at that time - was thriving. Sorry brother, but this argument doesn't hold when we look at the Quranic verses mentioning this city. This is because the term 'mother of cities' is accompanied by '...and what is surrounding it'... This indicates that Muhammad was required to deliver the message to the 'mother of cities and what is surrounding it'... This indicates that this city was indeed thriving and there were surrounding regions/villages around it. 6:92 And this is a Book which We have sent down, blessed, authenticating what is between his hands, and that you may warn the capital of the towns and those around it. And those who believe in the Hereafter believe in it, and they maintain their contact prayer. 3. You stated that because the Quran states that Mecca is a 'plantless Valley' it means the true Mecca is in Saudi Arabia. This, again, lacks proper analysis. When reading 14:37 we see that only DURING the time of Abraham it was a 'plantless valley': 14:35 AndAbraham said: "My Lord, make this a land of peace, and keep me and my sons away from serving statues." 14:37 "OurLord, I have resided part of my progeny in a barren valley near your Restricted Sanctuary. Our Lord, that they may hold the contact prayer, so let the hearts of the people incline towards them and give provisions to them of the fruits that they may give thanks." The Arabic word used in this verse is ZER'IN which denotes a crop/harvested field with human intervention. It is does NOT mean there were no plants which is the Arabic word for NABAT. In fact, I noticed you left out the remainder of the verse which says: "...give provisions to them of the fruits that they may give thanks." So if there were no plants then how can there be fruits? Additionally, there are MANY verses which speak to the prophet Muhammad about lush gardens, fruits, etc. 2:25 And give good news to those who believe and do good works that they will have estates with rivers flowing beneath them. Every time they receive a provision of its fruit, they say: "This is what we have been provisioned before," and they are given its likeness. And there they will have pure mates, and in it they will abide. 4. The Masjid Al Haram location was indeed a place of commerce as well as religious services. This is actually laid out quite clearly in Sura 9. In 9:19 we see the idolaters were the ones running the show for religious services and taking the people's money illicitly (9:34). It the very reason why the term 'commerce' is used in 9:24. 5. There is NO Quranic evidence that the prophet faced a qiblah to Jerusalem. Although I have my reservations about the entire concept of Qiblah as being anything about a direction of prayer (since God is everywhere), still, your premise that the people were unable to properly face Saudi Arabia because of lack of technology isn't convincing. Keep in mind that it is one thing to be off by a few degrees, but to change an entire direction is vastly different. 6. There are many Quranic hints about the location of the prophet - the Quran speaks of the goddess Allat (Sura 53) which the Nabatean tribes worshipped in Petra. It also speaks of how the prophet's people would pass by the ruins of Lot by day and night (37:137) - which is in the same vicinity as Petra. It also speaks of fishing/oceans (5:96) which Petra contains a vast body of water. And many other hints. Even the bible speaks of Abraham visiting the Jordan area - never once did he venture into the Arabian peninsula near the Mecca we know of today. Aside from all this, archeologically speaking, more evidence points to Petra than Saudi Arabia. My itent isn't to defend Gibson's work but I only follow what makes most sense and whether it concurs with Quran. To me, more scientific and Quranic evidence absolutely points to Petra.

[@QuranTalk]

Peace be upon you brother. I will try to address your points: 1. If we are to assume that “Becca” mentioned in 3:96 is different than Mecca mentioned in 48:24 then that would indicate that there are two Sacred Masjids and two locations for Hajj. See: 3:96-97, 48:24:-25, 2:196 & 5:2. It is apparent from these verses that there is only one Sacred Masjid and only one location for Hajj. Additionally, we see the same phenomenon used for other locations where God utilizes different names: Yathrib/Medina, Al-Hijr/Thamud. We even see the same phenomenon with individuals Jacob/Israel or Jonah/Zan-noon. I believe God does this as a form of redundancy to eliminate claims that these mean other then their intended meaning. This is no different than an engineer who wants to build a robust system so they will create redundancy incase there is a failure in one the other is there for reinforcement. The fact that God utilized both the names Becca and Mecca is a safeguard from claims like that of people claiming that Petra is Mecca. Just like how in the Bible it calls it the "Valley of Becca" and in the Quran it calls it the "Valley of Mecca" (48:24) giving us certainty that these are the same places. There is zero indication that Petra ever utilized one let alone both these names. Therefore if we accept God’s assertions that the Quran is our ultimate reference then we should not follow information that contradicts the Quran. 2. We know for a fact there were many Arab tribes around Mecca at the time of Muhammad e.g. Quraish and Yathrib. Both are mentioned in the Quran and are historically located at today’s Mecca and Medina and not Petra. Additionally there is well documented history of all the neighboring tribes at the time of the prophet: Banu Kinanah - the brothers of Quraish, and they are prominent in and mostly around Mecca. Banu al-Akhdari (Branch of quraish) who were very influential in Algeria and Yemen. Banu Bakr ibn Abd Manat in the city of Yalamlam and around Yathrib and they are a branch of Banu Kinanah. Banu Jadhimah from the city of Yalamlam and they are a branch of Banu Kinanah. Banu Hothail - The Brothers of Khuzaimah, and their neighbors in Mecca. Banu Thaqif - the city of Ta'if, Urwah ibn Mas'ud Banu Bariq - the city of Bareq. Banu Utub - the city of Najd. Banu Ghatafan - east of Yathrib and Khaibar. Banu Hilal - Hejaz and Najd. Banu Tamim - Dominant force in Central Arabia. Banu Sa’ad. Banu Amr. Banu Daws - south of Mecca. Banu Abs - Hudhayfah ibn al-Yaman. Banu Jumah. Banu Kalb. Bani Khalid. Banu Khuza'a - between Mecca and Badr. Banu Bakr. Banu Lakhm In Yathrib (later Medina). Banu Kinanah. Banu Khazraj. In addition to the Jewish tribes: Banu Alfageer. Banu Alkahinan - they traced their descent from Aaron. Banu Awf. Banu Harith or Bnei Chorath were rulers of Najran. Banu Nadir - sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān, located in Yathrib(Medina). Banu Najjar. Banu Qainuqa. Banu Quda'a - Himyarite tribe of converts to Sadducee Judaism. Banu Qurayza - sub-clan of the al-Kāhinān. Banu Sa'ida. Banu Shutayba.... We know for a fact that people would come to Mecca to perform pilgrimage (48:25), that the Quraish were the ones who were making money for allowing people to come to visit the Kaaba (106:2). That they considered themselves the custodians of the Sacred Masjid (8:34). 3. 14:37 doesn’t indicate that it was only plantless at the time of Abraham. The translation you put even indicates “barren” this further reinforces that plants do not grow their naturally. If plants do not grow their naturally then it will be nearly impossible to cultivate such lush orchards like you are insinuating. The question if I understand correctly the point you are trying to make is that zer’in means exclusively crops provided by human intervention. If this is the case then this would be at odds with 39:21 which is showing that God is the one who causes the zer’in to grow (without human intervention). For me it is very clear how God is provided all these fruits and provisions to the people of Mecca as it is repeated numerous times in the Quran that the Sacred Masjid will have offerings sent to it. This lets us know the provisions are not coming from the location but from elsewhere. See 2:196, 5:97, 48:25, 28:57. Additionally, we see in 5:2 that hunting and the cutting of plants are forbidden during pilgrimage for the conservation of natural resources at the Sacred House. Regarding the claim that the MANY verses which speak of lush gardens, fruits, etc. therefore they must be farmers at Mecca otherwise they would not understand these examples is inaccurate. Just because Mecca wasn’t a thriving agricultural location doesn't mean that the people at and around the location were imbeciles. Which grown adult irrespective if they were born in a plantless valley wouldn't know about fruits and where they come from. 🙂 4. The commerce of the Quraish was their stronghold at the Sacred Shrine in Mecca. They taxed people, they barred people, they crowded people from coming, and they took money for maintaining the shrine (9:24, 9:34, 48:25, 106:2, 8:35). Their business was not trade or agriculture it was religious. This also corresponds with what we know historically about the Quraish. 5. We will have to agree to disagree. No point in talking about a direction of prayer if you believe that this is the wrong interpretation of Qibla 🙂 6. (2) the Quran also talks about sailing, snow, forests, the moon, embryology, the creation of the universe, stars, the big bang, blackholes, quasars, Egypt, meteorology, metallurgy, penetrating the outer limits of our universe, even and an event that took place at the time of the prophet in Ephesus, Turkey which is even 1,000 miles from even Petra etc. were all these topics perfectly understood by the people at the time of Muhammad? The Quran is not simply a message for Muhammad and his immediate companions this is a message for the world (68:52). Similarly this is the case for 37:137. The verses uses the plural term for "you" as in "you all" therefore this applies to anyone who hears the Quran and there is no reason to think that this is directed only to Muhammad and his immediate people, otherwise the Quran would have informed Muhammad to "say / قُلْ" before the statement was made see: 6:145, 18:109, 56:57-74. Since the Quran is directed to all the inhabitants of the world, it will also be heard by those who pass by the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah. All this verse informs us is that the ruins of Sodom and Gomorrah are still in existence and that people would pass them by morning and night. There is no reason to think that these verses are limited to Muhammad.

[@qurancentric7459]

@@QuranTalk Salams and thank you for your response, With respect, I once again see a handful of erroneous conclusions based on faulty assumptions. 1. You claimed that if Becca and Mecca are not the same then this would mean there would exist two different Sacred Masjids. And what is your evidence of that?! Is the Ka'ba/Bait Al haram/Beit different locations? No. Very simply, reading the verses in question show us that Becca is specifically the immediate location of the House (3:96) whereas Mecca is actually an outer region within a valley (48:35). God's words are unchangeable, so it behooves the sincere to ask themselves whether they trust the words of the Quran or not. We cannot say Haroot is the same as Maroot, or Jaloot is the same Taloot (all mentioned in the Quran). Mecca is not the same as Becca. If you feel that God said Becca and He actually meant Mecca - then that is your own prerogative. 2. I find it ironic you criticized Mr. Gibson for citing hadith sources for historical references and yet you are practically doing the same. What you are quoting is the common Islamic literature that is known. Other historical references say otherwise. The Quran mentions Quraish once and it doesn't give us a clue where they were located. They traveled during the winter/summer (106:2) which indicates they were not local to the prophets location. You stated 'Yathrib' is a tribe. It isn't. Yathrib is a city or a village according to 33:13. The Quran tells them to 'go back' - which clearly indicates they weren't local. Additionally, all the Arabian tribes you listed do not prove your point that Saudi Arabia is where Mecca is. You just listed them, not sure how this reinforces your point. 3. Abraham lived in a valley without ZR'IN. Again, ZR'IN refers to a plant that is 'grow able' by means of cultivation (56:63-64). This is precisely why in the same verse says "and provide for them all kinds of fruits, that they may be appreciative." It shows that the cultivation is possible. And yes, the Sacred Masjid did receive meats and fruits from elsewhere. However, again, many verses show that the localized region of where the prophet lived is also full of livestock (6:143) and lush gardens (6:141). If you do not think the above verses applied to the time of the prophet as you noted, then again, that is your own prerogative. 4. Here you asserted that there was no commerce besides religious commerce at Masjid Al Haram. Again, you are advised to read 22:28 and 9:28. It is the reason why Moses was asked to do eight HIJAJ (28:27) as part of his marriage contract. This confirms the historical narrative of Masjid Al Haram being both a religous site and for commerce. Not sure what other proof is needed here. 5. Lastly, you stated that the Quran is not a message just for Muhammad and his immediate companions - no one made this claim... However, we cannot deny that the Quran came down to a people that can relate to it and is absolutely relevant to their day-to-day needs! It would be silly to claim that the Quranic message did not relate to its original recipients. Muhammad and his tribe knew exactly what storms and snow were (24:43), they witnessed growth of plants from rain (22:63), and they sailed the seas (22:65). To think that such verses are not necessarily relatable to Muhammads tribe is to look at the Quran in 2-dimensions. Many verses of the Quran are CLEARLY in relation exclusively to Muhammads tribe. But I wont get into this here as this is besides the point. Bottom line: When examining the Quran against history, archaeology and the bible, we see many more hints pointing to Petra including: The bible NEVER mentions Abaraham venturing into Saudi Arabia but more into the Jordan area. Muhammad being a follower of Abraham indicates same region. The Quran speaks of Allat, Manat, Al Uzza - three goddesses revered in Petra (sura 53). The Quran speaks of idols such as Yaguth (of Noahs tribe) and Ba'l (of Israel) - all of which the recipients of the Quran were familiar with. This can only be possible if they were from the same region. God continuously speaks of rivers, gardens, fishing, hunting... things that Muhammads tribe were able to understand and relate to... These things are not found in Saudi Arabia. God speaks to Muhammads tribe and how Ad, thamud, Noah, Abraham tribe were annhilated (9:70) and how they pass by the ruins of Lot (37:137). All of which are mentioned in the bible and all in the same region of northern Arabia. And many other verses... So the evidence is all there. One just needs to be absolutely truthful with themselves and put their bias aside. Traditional Muslims do not like the possibility of Petra because it will dismantle the hadith literature they relied on for guidance. I would assume the Submitters probably feel the same with RK. Peace

[@emekaibe7876]

Good reply, to this liar.

[@sharmasharma1210]

@@QuranTalk hello My friend, I want to talk with you. About quran shit

[@pfanderfilms]

@@qurancentric7459 This is a good discussion between Qur'anTalk and Qur'an Centric. I wish there were more discussions like this, and with this caliber of input.

[@frankszanto]

You have not understood what Gibson is saying. For nearly 100 years, there were no qiblas pointing to Mecca. They all pointed to somewhere much further north. Then from about 720AD onward, they start to point to Mecca. He initially thought they were pointing to Jerusalem, but on laying it out on a map, he saw they were pointing to somewhere in the region of Petra. The Quran says the change happened just after Muhammad moved to Medina. Archeology says it happened 100 years later.

[@flamming_arrow]

Gibson hidden several things that only muslims could understand. 1. He didnt discussed direction of mosque of Prophet in first capital of islam(Madina) specially mosques direction. Where first change of Qibla happened. And word "turn" was used. If change of qibla was from Jerusalem to petra then turn wont be used. 2. Humanly it is not possible to have perfect direction towards Kaaba in prayers so 45 degree is ok in prayers. 3. He didnt discussed first muslim migration to Ethopia that is near mecca. 4. He didnt discussed migration to madina that is more close to petra then ethopia. 5. He didnt discussed for 3 centuries ummayad and abbasi empire rule at same time. And record they werr praying different directions. 6. All founders of largest ever empire at that time were Rashidoun, ummayad and abbasi. All their founders were born in Mecca

[@lolaokhrana]

Wheres the zam zam wayer as written in quran in petra then?

[@flamming_arrow]

@Peter Keller petra was an ancient city but by the will of god the Abraham has left ismail and haggra at wilderness that is mecca

[@flamming_arrow]

@Peter Keller midian region (named after abraham son) is located in saudia (near red sea). Families were already settled in saudia.

[@flamming_arrow]

@Peter Keller madian is place mentioned in Quran with refernce to prophet salih and shuaib (known as jethro in other religion). Madian place is knowb to be named after Abraham son www.collinsdictionary.com/us/dictionary/english/midian Do you think otherwise?

[@blackhawk0071292]

جزاک الله خیرا و أحسن الجزاء.

[@InvandrareGBG]

Thank you! Barak Allah fik

[@siir5]

First off thank you for making a video that puts a counterargument against a research done in Islamic history. I think whether we like where the question asked leads us, it is helpful to raise these questions and seek for answers. That being said what I do not understand is how you conduct this counterargument. If you want to debunk a well-explained research, first you need to explain each and every single points they raise and supporting evidence and debunk all instead of mentioning only two of them with a sly giggle. I was actually looking for a serious debunk video to learn more but your video unfortunately ignore Dan Gibson's some 10 other arguments in an insulting tone which is far from an actual academic research. Additionally, I am curious as to why searching an answer for a question like this would eradicate islam? It is such a shallow fear which prevents people from conducting an academic research on the fastest growing religion in the world. We have to stop being afraid to question our religion.

[@aleefmohammed244]

Well said. In another context (note that I am not an Arabic speaker and I would gladly welcome any correction ), Hajj can also means to debate. So in this essence, God is telling Ibrahim to proclaim a debate to mankind (debate to monotheism). Just like today, we see how people are arguing and fighting over religion, hence this is why fighting was forbidden at that sacred place. And animals “sacrifices” were allowed , it was to feed the people who made their way down. This is my own intepretation from the verses in the Koran. I highly recommend you read books from Kalman Salibi , especially : The Bible is from Arabia. A hidden gem of a book. It will change your whole understanding and perception. Ultimately , God mentions in the Koran multiple times ,in 60 over verses , that the true path to salvation is not through fasting or pilgrimage. I’m a Quran only Muslim and I left my society too.

[@omarsalim9562]

Read quran there is location of meca

[@NathanKwadade]

@@aleefmohammed244 why are you a Quran only Muslim? And which Quran do you follow, the Hafs, Warsh or the other 35 variants? If you’re a Quran only Muslim, how many times do you pray a day, 5 (per Hadiths) or 3 (per Quran)?

[@NathanKwadade]

Finally I find a bold woman who’s open minded and willing to question her faith and be sure that what she believes is the truth indeed. Keep searching and keep asking the right questions! I have to agree with you on this one; this video does nothing close to debunking Dan Gibson’s throughly researched academic thesis. However, I do welcome any cogent and sound academic rebuttal to Dan’s hypothesis and not an impassioned and biased video response.

[@aleefmohammed244]

@@NathanKwadade I don’t even pray. Aqimu Salat means submission with humility. You think God can be defined by finite rituals? You think God needs us to pray for Him to be validated ? If let’s say there were no humans in this world and only animals , do animals pray ?? Will that then make God “less complete”?

[@peacock69mcp]

I thought you gave some evidence to rebut Dan Gibson's findings. I think you are making too many assumptions based on texts and not archaeological findings. Also no antiquities found in and around Mecca in spite of hundreds of digs for new buildings all around the main Kaba. Try harder, David King.

[@ElBadriano]

Antiquities of what? Mud houses? People would destroy everything and build again. There was no civilisation or full of greenery and oases and all that what Gibson tries to compare to

[@alorikkoln]

I agree. I think Petra is still a likely candidate. The most compelling argument is, the closer proximity to Jordan and Palestine, where all the ancient action took place. Mecca is about 500 kilometers to the south. Why would Haagar and Ismael have traveled so far south, for no good reason? It is more likely, that they sought refuge in the fertile Vally of Moses, near Petra.

[@ElBadriano]

@@alorikkoln why would Hagar and Ishmael go? They went because it was Allah's will. Allah ordered Prophet Ibrahim to take them there. It's as simple as that. Nothing adds up in favour of Petra. Nothing at all.

[@ElBadriano]

@@alorikkoln Prophet Ibrahim's prayer to Allah after he left them in Makkah "“O our Lord! I have made some of my offspring to dwell in an uncultivable valley by Your Sacred House in order that they may perform As-Salat. So fill some hearts among men with love towards them, and (O Allah) provide them with fruits so that they may give thanks.” surah Ibrahim verse 37

[@andrewbatho9962]

Because nothing is there to dig and see 😂😂😂

[@Madabudareste]

Dan Gibson claims that Qur'an contradict to the geography of Mecca, not to itself.

[@gladtidingstothestrangers7333]

Dan Gibson is as clueless as an ash-tray on a motorcycle.

[@theguidancecounsellor2948]

Feel free to watch my rebuttals

[@danielbroomhall8882]

@@gladtidingstothestrangers7333 you can say that, but you dont have any contra argument against him. The muslims have got it wrong for sure.

[@gladtidingstothestrangers7333]

@@danielbroomhall8882 فك يرسلف دم دكهد

[@danielbroomhall8882]

@@gladtidingstothestrangers7333 لقد قمت بفك تشفيرها بالفعل

[@bhb9926]

Excellent analysis.

[@peterhendriks4736]

The suppressed laughter trick of this guy seriously weakens his plea. That is what you do when you know your arguments aren't strong enough. As far as I know Gibson has reached a conclusion based on serious research. If you don't agree just counter his arguments and never try to mock your opponent. Gibson does not have some ideological motive.

[@alanaatai3207]

Peter Hendriks I kept thinking the same. He was putting me off listening to his point by mock laughing his whole way through it. Didn’t put any confidence in what he was saying by acting like a child. I did listen to the end although it was hard to do so.

[@ETHIOTECHJ]

He countered it perfectly don't hate

[@AA-lr5me]

He does have a motive...he is a devout Christian. Check out his video titled "was Adam a Muslim" ... he clearly indicates his motives.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

Dan Gibson definitely has his own biased reasons for publishing his unsubstantiated theory. Mekkah was never Petra. If Nabateans were so great why didnt they design the whole city in a fashion after Petra? Either nabateans were just illiterate shepherds or they were great engineers but they can't have been both.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@AA-lr5me yup and the racism for rejecting polygyny comes through. Just like the Bible looks down on Abraham's legit second wife bc she wasn't a jew. Even Abraham wasn't a Jew or Christian but they want to make the Israelites, Jews and Christians better than other people.

[@fauzi000]

Say, "O disbelievers, ۝ I do not worship what you worship. ۝ Nor are you worshippers of what I worship. ۝ Nor will I be a worshipper of what you worship. ۝ Nor will you be worshippers of what I worship. ۝ For you is your religion, and for me is my religion. Cheers

[@hans471]

Mohammed said this to the quraish in Mekkah, but later the quraish converted to islam. Is this then a false prophecy?

[@thearmouredsaint164]

That sounds so peaceful until muhamad said, strike the necks of the unbelievers wherever you find them...

[@pfanderfilms]

Thanks for this video. You might want to discuss this with Dan Gibson himself. He does discuss with critics quite readily, and would be interested in responding to your queries here. Just from my limited knowledge, I can see that most of your challenges above can be answered. God bless you as you continue to search the answers to Petra and Mecca.

[@sayedf11]

Dr Jay u may Learn a lot ...ha ha ha IS MAKKAH MENTIONED IN THE BIBLE? The original Hebrew-language phrase for the Valley of Baca is emeq ha-Baka עמק הבכא.[17][18][19] A literal translation of the Hebrew name is "valley of the Baka (tree)," (note the use of the word "the"), although the ancient Greek translation assumed a similar-sounding word בכה "crying" and translated ἐν τῇ κοιλάδι τοῦ κλαυθμῶνος "valley of mourning". Makkah is named Baka in the Bible The name Baka is specifically mentioned in the Bible in Chapter eighty-four of Psalms. This chapter tells us about a sacred place for which souls yearn, hearts and flesh sing for joy to the living God and God’s praise is sung. This place is called “the Valley of Baca”. Baca is described as a dry place which was made into a place of springs in the vicinity of tents. A day there is better than a thousand elsewhere. “How lovely is your dwelling place, Lord Almighty? My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry out for the living God. Even the sparrow has found a home, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may have her young-a place near your altar, Lord Almighty, my King and my God. Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you. Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage. As they pass through the Valley of Baka, they make it a place of springs; the autumn rains also cover it with pools. They go from strength to strength, till each appears before God in Zion. Hear my prayer, Lord God Almighty; listen to me, God of Jacob. Look on our shield, O God; look with favour on your anointed one. Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere” (Psalms 84: 1-10). Let’s analyse the above Psalms’ verses. “My soul yearns, even faints, for the courts of the Lord; my heart and my flesh cry outfor the living God”: “Our Lord, I have settled some of my descendants in an uncultivated valley near Your Sacred House, our Lord, that they may establish prayer. So make hearts among the people incline toward them and provide for them from the fruits that they might be grateful” (Qur’an 14:37). 2nd “The sparrow has found a homeand the swallow a nest“: Makkah is a place where birds and all animals are safe because hunting and killing are forbidden. Anyone who hunts or kills an animal in Makkah has to expiate for his sins. 3rd Blessed are those who dwell in your house; they are ever praising you: Millions of Muslims go to Makkah every year for Umrah and pilgrimage. They spend several days occupying all their time praising God and fully submitting to Him. They are blessed because they sacrifice money and everything to visit and dwell in the House of God. 4th Blessed are those whose strength is in you, whose hearts are set on pilgrimage. Muslim pilgrims dwelling in the Holy House of God in Makkah, ask God for forgiveness. They drive their strength by fully relying on Him. 5th As they pass through the Valley of Baka“: Baka is one of the various names of Makkah as we read in the Qur’an: “Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Baka - blessed and guidance for the worlds” (Qur’an 3:96). 6th They make it a place of springs“: The spring of “Zamzam” is beside the Ka’bah in the Holy Mosque in Makkah. This spring has been continuously producing water for thousands of years since the time of Abraham (PBUH). It has turned Makkah to an inhabited place in the arid desert. 7th Better is one day in your courts than a thousand elsewhere“: The reward of the pilgrims who visit the Holy Mosque of God in Makkah is great. The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) said: “One prayer in my Mosque (in Madinah) is better than one thousand prayers in any other mosque excepting the Sacred Mosque (in Makkah) and one prayer in the Sacred Mosque is better than one hundred thousand prayers elsewhere” (Narrated Ahmad and Ibn Majah). 8th Paran refers to Makkah in the Bible Paran was the habitat of Hagar and Ishmael Makkah is also referred to as “Paran” in the Bible. Ishmael and his mother Hagar settled in the desert of Paran after Abraham left them. “And God heard the boy crying, and the angel of God called to Hagar from heaven and said to her, ‘What is the matter, Hagar? Do not be afraid; God has heard the boy crying as he lies there. Lift the boy up and take him by the hand, for I will make him into a great nation.’ Then God opened her eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt” (Genesis 21:17-21). The descendants of Ishmael and his son Kedar are the Arabs, who have lived since that time until now in Paran. Paran in Moses’ prophecy “And he (Moses) said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them” (Deuteronomy 33:2, KJV). “The Lord came from Sinai” refers to God’s revelation unto Moses (PBUH). “He rose up from Seir” refers to His message from the Nazarene. “He shined forth from mount Paran“, refers to Makkah. Ishmael and his descendants have lived in Paran. Muhammad (PBUH), the descendant of Ishmael and Kedar, is the only prophet who appeared in the wilderness of Paran. Therefore, God shines forth from Paran, through His message of Islam to Muhammad (PBUH). The Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) had to flee with his followers from Makkah to Madinah. However, he re-entered it again with ten thousand believers (referred to as saints in the above verses) to give the fiery Law of God. 9th Pilgrimage to Makkah in Isaiah (60:1-7)= (Quran 22:27). All Kedar’s flocks will be gathered to you 10th Makkah is forbidden for the unbelievers “And a highway will be there; it will be called the Way of Holiness. The unclean will not journey on it; it will be for those who walk in that Way; wicked fools will not go about on it” (Isaiah 35:8). Non-Muslims are not allowed to enter the Holy City of Makkah, exactly as described above. “O, you who have believed, indeed the polytheists are unclean, so let them not approach al-Masjid al-Haram (the Sacred House) after this, their [final] year. And if you fear privation, Allah will enrich you from His bounty if He wills. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Wise” (Quran 9:28). 11th Jesus prophesied a new place for God’s worship The place is other than Jerusalem The woman said to him, “Sir, I perceive that you are a prophet. Our fathers worshipped on this mountain, but you say that in Jerusalem is the place where people ought to worship.” Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe me, the hour is coming when neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father” (John 4:19-21). 12th The kingdom of God will be given to other people According to Jesus (PBUH), the CornerStone of the kingdom of God will be taken away and given to other people. “Jesus said to them, “Have you never read in the Scriptures: ‘the stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone; this was the Lord’s doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes’? Therefore I tell you, the kingdom of God will be taken away from you and given to a people producing its fruits” (Matthew 21:42-43). “The stone that the builders rejected has become the cornerstone. This is the Lord’s doing; it is marvellous in our eyes” (Psalm 118:22-23). The cornerstone of the kingdom of God is his straight Path, Islam. It has been given through the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) to the Muslims who represent today one-fourth of the population of the world. ============================================= Psa 84 5 6 Blessed are those whose strength is in you, in whose heart are the highways to Zion. As they go through the Valley of Baca they make it a place of springs; the early rain also covers it with pools. Ezk 27 21 Arabia and all the princes of Kedar were your favored dealers in lambs, rams, and goats; in these they did business with you Isa 35 8 10 And a highway shall be there, and it shall be called the Way of Holiness; the unclean shall not pass over it. It shall belong to those who walk on the way; even if they are fools, they shall not go astray. No lion shall be there, nor shall any ravenous beast come up on it; they shall not be found there, but the redeemed shall walk there. And the ransomed of the Lord shall return and come to Zion with singing; everlasting joy shall be upon their heads; they shall obtain gladness and joy, and sorrow and sighing shall flee away. Num 13 3 So Moses sent them from the wilderness of Paran, according to the command of the Lord, all of them men who were heads of the people of Israel. Num 12 16 After that the people set out from Hazeroth, and camped in the wilderness of Paran. Num 10 12 And the people of Israel set out by stages from the wilderness of Sinai. And the cloud settled down in the wilderness of Paran. YAHYA OF SPEAKER CORNER ...REGDS

[@pierreparousia6993]

@ sayedf11 absolute nonsense 🤷🏽‍♂️

[@sayedf11]

@@pierreparousia6993 so u could not read any ...ha ha ha

[@pierreparousia6993]

@ sayedf11 you You mean any of your nonsense? Your attempt at biblical exegesis is a joke🤡

[@sayedf11]

@bram syamith ok Rabbi EVI LIPKIN watch his video abt Moses Pilgrim

[@Kstxrd]

Unconvincing. Dan Gibson has much stronger arguments. Many statements made here are utterly refuted by Dan's reschearh. Quran Talk obviously has not watched ALL of Dan's videos or they would not have made many of the claims they do here because Dan destroys these arguments.

[@eljumaidilbinahmad2464]

Ianciaguy stixx, why not you make Dan Gibson your god as a replacement of JC...hehehe

[@Kstxrd]

@@eljumaidilbinahmad2464 extremely stupid and weak comment. Muslims never have anything constructive to say in a real conversation.

[@Gregoire0]

Why is there no mention of Mecca in the ancient maps of Arabia while Muslims say it’s “Mother of all Cities”?

[@Kstxrd]

@@Gregoire0 easy answer...because the Mother of All Cities was Petra. The orginal Mecca. All early mosques faced Petra...first mosque to face Mecca in Saudi Arabia wasn't until 127 years after the start of Islam. This fact also proves the Qur'an has been aultered because it contains a verse directing Muhammad to change the direction of prayer. The direction of prayer changed almost 100 years AFTER Muhammad's death.

[@StanbyMode]

@@Gregoire0because the mother of all cities is referring to it’s religious significance, and its future as a gigantic pilgrimage site. It was not on maps because of its low population and desolateness

[@ummalamin9009]

جزاك الله خير و بارك الله فيك آمين!!

[@littleangel3356]

وش قاعد يقول مافهمت شيء

[@TahaWasiq]

One must remember that Quran is a contemporary source, while Dan Gibson used sources which came centuries later, while claiming that Muslims try to rely on later sources, and that the Abbasid writings are corrupted, it is he himself who is also relying on such unauthentic sources, and not mentioning any contemporary record.

[@TahaWasiq]

@Waldemar O We also have descriptions of Makkah by non Muslim sources, some monks living in the Caliphate compiled histories, and tried to relate them with the biblical stories. These also briefly mention Makkah.

[@TahaWasiq]

@Waldemar O There is much evidence that Prophet Muhammad lived in the same Makkah as today. What Muslims think is that Makkah was a simple settlement, tents and huts. It was in the late 400s CE that mud brick houses were built. The Kabbah was built from alternate layers of wood and rock, an architectural design of southern Arabia, not Petra. Hence looking for huge architectural remains is wrong. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKDSfXuagZWLppo But it does not mean that there is no archaeological evidence from Makkah. Masjid Al Haraam is mentioned being rebuilt in Makkah by the Umayyads, (while they should be against doing so, according to this documentary) in an rock inscription 697 AD. You can view the inscription here. www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1 There are three rock inscriptions from Makkah Containing Verses of Quran 1; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah2.html 2; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah6.html 3; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah5.html According to Dan, Makkah did not exist back then. Plus There is some more evidence that a city named Makkah did exist: Mecca is mentioned in the following early Quranic manuscripts: Codex Is. 1615 I, folio 47v, radiocarbon dated to 591-643 CE. Codex Ṣanʿāʾ DAM 01-29.1, folio 29a, radiocarbon dated between 633-665 CE. Codex Arabe 331, folio 40 v, radiocarbon dated between 652-765 CE. Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة, "Servant of Mecca") and Makky (مَكِّي, "Meccan") These predate Islam. Makkah is there in Arab Byzantine Chronicle of 741 www.aymennjawad.org/23129/the-byzantine-arabic-chronicle-full-translation Syriac Christian source, John bar Penkaye, written c. 687 CE, where there is mention of the ‘sanctuary’ (i.e., al-Masjid al-Ḥarām) where some of the fighting occurred. Another contemporary Syriac Christian source, Letters of Jacob of Edessa, written sometime between 684 and 708 CE, further identifies the Muslim direction of prayer toward the Ka’ba, Makkah or Macoraba is there in Ptolemy's map of arabia. 2nd century CE. Problems with this documentary of Dan Gibson; It is “Masjid al Haram” not “Masjid al Haraam”. Har’a’m (sacred) and Har’aa’m (forbidden). How come the floods destroyed the Kaaba of Petra and the test of the city still surives? In the Siege of Mecca (683), The Kaaba was severely damaged by fire during the siege (as it was built with alternate layers of rock and wood). Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, a companion of the Prophet rebuilt it purely out of stone. It was rebuilt again in the Siege of Mecca (692) and this time by the Umayyad Caliphate which retook Makkah. They could have simply brought it back to Petra if it was the original qibla. See www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1.html for more archeological proof for Masjid al Haram. Several Mosques from the time, which don't fit into Dan's Theory, simply are not mentioned. Descriptions of the Islamic holy city fit Makkah not Petra. There was lackage of water in Makkah and flooding occurred when it rained heavily. The pagan idols were destroyed by Muslims and the wall surrounding the city was simple and small, while Petra had dams to store water and hence no flooding occurred. Its pagan temples still survive. There was no lackage of water in Petra, they even had swimming Pools. Dan Gibson exaggerated Al-Tabari, and al Tabari is an unreliable source. both Makkah (Surah 48 verse 24) and Bakkah (surah 3 verse 96) are mentioned in the Quran. Hence the word “Bakkah” was not changed to “Makkah” in quran as claimed by Dan Gibson or else both verses would have mentioned “Makkah”. Besides Petra was originally known to its inhabitants as Raqmu, not Bakkah. Ka'ba itself was aligned in accordance with natural and astronomical phenomena. The early Muslims say, "knew that, when facing a particular wall or corner of the Ka'ba in Mecca, one was facing a particular solar or stellar rising or setting point; they assumed that, away from Mecca, if one faced in that same astronomical direction one would still be facing the same wall or corner of the Ka'ba." That is how they calculated the Qibla, thinking that Kabba was the center of the world.That's why the early Mosques did not accurately face Makkah. As Biruni asserts: "Even the professional astronomers find the qibla problem difficult to solve, so you can imagine how difficult it is for non-astronomers," a comment echoed more tersely by his contemporary Nasr ibn 'Abd Allah: "Seeking this object (the qibla) by way of calculation is difficult." Jacob, bishop of Edessa (684-88), who was asked the question why the Jews pray facing south, to which he gave the following reply: Your question is vain ... for it is not to the south that the Jews pray, nor either do the Muslims (mhaggriiye). The Jews who live in Egypt, and also the Muslims there, as I saw with my own eyes and will now set out for you, prayed to the east, and still do, both peoples-the Jews towards Jerusalem and the Muslims towards the Ka'ba. And those Jews who are to the south of Jerusalem pray to the north; and those in the land of Babel, in Hira and in Basra, pray to the west. And also the Muslims who are there pray to the west, towards the Ka'ba; and those who are to the south of the Ka'ba pray to the north, towards that place. So from all this that has been said, it is clear that it is not to the south that the Jews and Muslims here in the regions of Syria pray, but towards Jerusalem or the Ka'ba, the patriarchal places of their races. Conclusion, Dan Gibson based his documentary on weak and unreliable sources, whom he hater considered unreliable himself when he said that Abbasid era writings are not reliable. He never considered how the Arabs searched for the Qibla, only falsely assuming that they were good at it. He falsely assumed that Makkah was a huge city with public buildings, abundant vegetation and city walls. Then he failed to find such things in excavations in Makkah. He Jumbled up the entire chronology from 650 CE (UTHMAN), 680s CE (IBN ZUBAIR) and 750s CE (AS SAFFAH) to proove his point. He can only fool the people who are unaware of the Islamic history.

[@thepassionofgodshousetpgh8763]

That Quran also came latter also

[@TahaWasiq]

@@thepassionofgodshousetpgh8763 We have 40+ Quranic manuscripts from the first century of Islam. A few of them from the life of prophet Muhammad Himself! kzbin.info/www/bejne/oKDagqKkmZySi6c

[@sirsydneyroughdiamond1643]

@@TahaWasiq No you haven't.

[@AliAslam]

Mr. Gibson is only pointing out that initial Qibla was at Petra not at Jerusalem and based on the key points he has provided we must agree to this. Muslims First Qibla was Petra but later it changed from Petra to Mecca, at Masjid Ul Qiblateein. Mr. Dan Gibson, a true legend of Islam, I respect his research, I wish if he could be recognized for the magnitude of research he has done. What we have been told that Muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem initially, but in fact, it was Petra, which I have learned after watching this video first time before going on a pilgrimage back in 2019. This does not make any impact whatsoever on the religion of Islam, and we must appreciate the work done by Mr. Gibson, a University name must be dedicated or at least Mr Gibson knowledge shall be used to train young students

[@mjnj0726]

The Quran mentioned a valley and there's a VALLEY in Petra and Mecca is a DESERT. Where should you pray towards? A valley or desert?

[@markorbit4752]

Is mecca situated in a valley? From the pictures you are showing, it seems pretty flat with a few hills

[@ramonjalmaani4837]

It is not on a valley.

[@shaistaamjad2023]

Thank you greatly for the information/ Jazakallah kair. For weeks I was looking for a proper video/information that properly and logically contradicts Dan Gibson's theory, and your video has helped me greatly Thank you so much

[@QuranTalk]

Peace - God bless you for the kind words and support :)

[@sirsydneyroughdiamond1643]

Perfect use of sarcasm. Well done.

[@sirsydneyroughdiamond1643]

@Sub Zero • 7 years ago I was being sarcastic you dope.

[@noble4520]

You mean the false information he fed your brain with?

[@NathanKwadade]

@@QuranTalk This video is very light and barely does anything at debunking the solid cultural, textual, geographical, archaeological, agricultural, and cogent intellectual hypothesis posited by Dan Gibson. A scholarly way of debunking anything argument is to list each argument with supporting evidence provided and countering the same with your supporting evidence. This video was more of an impassioned bias diatribe. Muslims shouldn’t consider people asking pressing questions about the Islamic ☪️ religion as enemies. Muslims should seek the facts and data and let them speak for themselves and not be subjective in their reasoning from the cognitive dissonance from unearthing contradictory evidence to their beliefs. I would appreciate anyone to put my beliefs to a litmus test to validate or invalidate them. We are not attacking Muslims but only making a clarion call for you to wake up from your stupor and face the data and facts out there.

[@diamondstar-ow4cb]

MasyaAllah. So the answer is in Quran itself. Thank you for your explanation. May Allah bless you.

[@rodouaneessadouki5512]

Salam. During the first hundred years after the hijra no mosques were built with qiblas towards Macca...is there a more powerful argument than this one?

[@FaizanKhan-ms7wd]

Walekum Assalam the qibla changed from Jerusalem to kaaba in the life time of prophet pbuh so it's obvious that all the mosques will have qibla in the direction of kaaba however you can say it's not accurately facing the kaaba he explained this point in this video 20:00 .

[@robertdegroot8302]

Gibson has SOOOOO many arguments you are not addressing in this video. You need to look at his KZbin channel (particularly the series 'Archeology and Islam') to see how much evidence there really is. For example, the Saudi city of Mecca is never placed on any map before the year 800, archeologists find no evidence of any settlement in Mecca before 700, and the terms Mecca and 'Holy City' are actually used to refer to Petra in Jordan by historical writers (One even calls it 'Mecca - THE Mecca'). The more common Arab name for Petra was 'al-Hijr', which means 'The Rock', just like the word Petrah in Greco-Roman, and that's an entire Surah in the Quran. It speaks of a beautiful city being destroyed by earthquakes, which fits Petra perfectly as it was ultimately abandoned due to an earthquake in 750AD. The Saudi location known as al-Hijr makes no sense as it's a graveyard not a city at all. Endless locations in the Hadith and Sirat fit Petra much better than Mecca: Safa and Marwa in Mecca are little rocks closeby each other, but in Petra they're actual mountains. the Hira Cave should have pagan carvings and point to the city, which they do in Petra not in Mecca. Mount Arafat in Mecca is ugly and way too small to house temples, which they're supposed to have, while Petra has exactly such a mountain. The Kabaa building in Petra fits the described dimensions from the Hadith PERFECTLY. There are supposed to be olive trees and farm fields in the Holy City. Traveling distances described in al-Tabari are too short if the Holy City was so far away. Abraham leaving Hagar and Ishmael in nearby Petra makes sense instead of 1000 km away in the desert. The Quran speaks of Muslims seeing Lot's wife on a regular basis. Tribes described in the Quran are near Petra, not near Mecca (other tribes are believed by Muslims to be near Mecca, but that's been imposed on them after the transition) There's supposed to be a water canal right through the city, along with many pagan and Christian temples, and the stoning pillars have a beautiful and logical location in Petrah. The language of the Quran fits Northern Arabian dialect, not central Arabia. The Qiblas to Petra of all early mosques seal the deal, but there's sooo much more... Maybe the Qibla did first point to Jeruzalem, and was then changed to Petrah, and this is what the Quran refers to.

[@silveriorebelo8045]

you don't understand: as a typical muslim he doesn't care about truth, everything he wnats is conformity with official islamic narrative...

[@MusicChillRelax]

Mister Logik where are this version of Quran ? Lol it’s known since day 1 that there is multiple way of reciting Quran. Tell dan to fabricate 10 surah like Quran thanks :)

[@ekremgj]

what about the sahabas man? They told us too that mecca is the kaaba. Why would the muslims change this? It juet doesnt make sense! And if so, somewhere you would find a saying that petra is kaaba

[@ekremgj]

Robert De Groot its still not an argument to throw everything away sorry! There is no single mention about this that becca was mecca

[@philsmith2888]

This point says it all. You hardly answer a single point

[@punisherdestroyer5538]

Are you the same guy on The Warner Channel?

[@tabaxamlil4626]

Dont think so

[@ProtagonistPoV]

meanwhile, What does the word Mecca means ?

[@321humtum]

Hi, Hope you are doing well. can you translate the surah of elephant? the reason i am asking is your arguments is regarding what you think is while gibson go step by step to reveal where it was located is the same place where it is now or somewhere else. in said surah, there is word "ABABEEL" plural of Abal which meaning is camel not the bird as majority of translator have said/ translated.... Dan Gibson's research is more correct than anyone's.

[@thearmouredsaint164]

Spot on👍

[@normanraguindin3404]

Is Mecca located below a valley AND has a running water?

[@TahaWasiq]

No, Makkah according to 7th century sources was located in a valley which was uncultivated.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

There is water there. They sell zamzam water. The kaaba is near the two hills. You can see videos on youtube. It was a valley now it's built up has roads and hotels and shops all around. Animals had grasses to eat. Ppl ate dates but didnt grow much in Mekkah. Yes there is water but not agriculture. Olives only grow in northern ksa. Search the most olives now since 2000s only are grown in the north. Even we can say the best dates are in Medina and other places in Arabia have way more dates than Mekkah can have. The ppl used to trade their dates for better dates in Syria like that's what prophet Muhammad's father was probably doing when he came back then he died on the way back bc he got sick on his trip.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@William Newell its the sacred valley Tuwa maybe. Its also in Quran in the story of Moses. He goes to Midian too. Idk how far its from the valley though.

[@normanraguindin3404]

@@Diamondraw4Real There is NO running water!

[@kucingcat8687]

Lmao show me credible sources that said Mecca is below a valley with running waters

[@readingcriterion1052]

Great effort my brother May Allah reward you.

[@thearmouredsaint164]

If not being able to debunk dan gibson is a great effort i agree...

[@thelegando4281]

This person is a quranists lol

[@enginkazanci4727]

Hi QT - thanks but i have a general question: Was Abraham a.s. ever as far south as Mecca? This is a serious question! From where Abraham a.s. was living it would have been 1000 to 1500 kms. Thanks

[@NathanKwadade]

Let’s pray 🙏 that you get an answer because I’m also questioning the same!

[@sawaalyehhai9482]

Thank you so much

[@saghirbutt804]

I wish you stop laughing after every statement or criticism of Dan.So i can listen to your argument with sincerity.

[@BenEFTMeijer]

He can't stop laughing because he is lying.

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@BenEFTMeijer he literally tells you why becca in the bible (valley of weeping) is not even relevant to Islam. And they can deny Mekkah is in Saudi all they want. Muslims aren't as simple minded as some Christians and Dan's fanboys.

[@deventertoastmasters5937]

@@Diamondraw4Real He is laughing because he is lying. There is NOTHING stated in his video that has any weight. only if you are interested:

[@deventertoastmasters5937]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/omHOoWiJiLVopZI

[@carloshafezbinsantana7903]

Agree

[@a_student0]

I have not accepted his claim yet however, unlike you, he doesn't built upon a Book being unquestionably correct. The book's authenticity is now also questioned in this matter

[@monoth4555]

He has been debunked thoroughly. Quran has been preserved, traced back to prophet in his dialect. Also preserved the 10 different readings.

[@monoth4555]

@Allah prays? ?? Lol! I saw it all, you should watch the responses, many have been made. And nothing has changed. Quran has been preserved 100%, all readings have been preserved. The people claiming otherwise will have to admit they were wrong or continue lying. The vultures think their was a dead body, yet found an ocean.

[@RoninBkt]

Is plantless land and grapefull land the same time?

[@jonahvimeo4276]

It is extreemly difficult to face reality when confronted with facts againts beliefs that had been being rooted from childhood.

[@droverholt]

Hadith were written 250 years after the fact. And no Quran less than 300 years after the fact. Lots of time to create a lie.

[@flamming_arrow]

Historically and factually wrong. Quran was in written form at time of Prophet and given book shape in decade upon his demise. Initially for good hadith books were ban so somehow people got permission to write book and first hadith book is muwatta malik in ~150 years after demise of Prophet.

[@ABCXYZ-ch7es]

@@flamming_arrow Yeah. He never heard of Birmingham Manuscript

[@faizanhashmi389]

Quran was memorised by the hafizs . It was written when 70 hafiz martyred in battle . And people were fearful to write Qur'an as they think it would bidah. But it written down then

[@msmitchell3811]

The Quran and the previous scripture confirm the pilgrimage was in Petra. It's not about doubt. It's about setting the story straight according to the Qur'an the other holy books and the archeological evidence.

[@soulreaper1945]

No it's not as no historical evidence support that, the Quran never mentioned that petra is where pilgrimage as nothing to support that

[@faizanhashmi389]

P is not in arabic . Petra is called batra in arabic. Petra is Latin word how Latin word come in pure arabic

[@msmitchell3811]

Why do Arabs wear Greek togas when they perform Hajj?why do Arabs put garlands around the neck of their sacrifices? It was a Greek practice.

[@jamesdigriz5449]

Agreed, archaeological evidence is always the strongest proof and doesn't lie, especially with what is less than 2000 years old. Attacks on Gibson's documentary and his claims by saying he is against Islam are ludicrous. What he is looking into and this whole subject of the actual birthplace of Mohammad does not undermine Islam in any way, right on the contrary - it looks for strong archaeological evidence which should be there, otherwise whatever is claimed in any books is simple incorrect.

[@matheenguy8850]

@@jamesdigriz5449 : DG is a conspiracy theorist with a softcore anti Islamic mindset The Islamic scriptures do not mention the name Petra anywhere.... The Arabic name for Petra is Batra and the name Batra is not mentioned anywhere in the Islamic scriptures Not surprisingly, we live in anti Islamic times where anyone who builds stories against the Islamic faith and Islam related things are highly encouraged DG is bluffing senseless non sense by saying that the Prophet Mohammed saw was born in Petra and was a Nabetean When documented evidence in the light of modern history from the 7th century exists like the Prophet's home remnants, Prophet's clothes are still available in Makkah The intention of DG is to spread misinformation against Islam DG claims Muslims worship a black rock when all the world knows Muslims worship Allah and Allah means unseen creator almighty god DG claims that Petrah kaaba was physically moved over and placed in Makkah DG claims the direction of prayer as Piblah in Petrah just copying the term Qiblah used in Makkah in Arabic DG cannot answer if Muslims went to Petrah from the 7th century onwards for Hajj pilgrimage as he will be fully exposed there DG is supported by Jay Smith, an irritating specimen who spreads shameless lies under the name of defending Christianity and attacking Islam We also see that the anti Islamic camp (missionaries, sanghies, atheists) give full support to this fallacy theory of DG just to satisfy their anti Islamic intentions This theory is just to spread misinformation that Muslims and the Islamic scriptures (Quran and Hadith) got it wrong which is obviously against Islamic piety DG will end up being the next Samuel Patty if he spreads misinformation like this

[@celmer6]

So how do you explain the Prayer Walls of the first Mosques pointing to Petra?

[@9and7]

He doesn't

[@naturehealing2952]

WRT point raised @ 12 :30 onwards : Why cannot be Haddis of prophet's father can be unreliable when there are several Haddis of Prophet himself are termed unreliable ?

[@gavinchambers2428]

Interesting that Becca sounds very similar to Beqaa, the Beqaa Valley is geographically part of the Great Rift Valley that runs along the Sea of Galilee, the Dead Sea and into the Gulf of Aqaba, and on into the Red Sea. It is also interesting that the Quran talks about two bodies of water, one salty, like the Dead Sea and one sweet water, like the Sea of Galilee, that do not mix. These two waters are both below sea level and the gradient between the two is gradual, so that the river meanders because the water is moving slow enough that it will have a very distinct salinity gradient.

[@amjadhusaini]

MashaAllah! Excellent logical deconstruction of Don Gibson's farse arguments! May Allah bless and be pleased with you.

[@Gregoire0]

Why is there no mention of Mecca in the ancient maps of Arabia while Muslims say it’s “Mother of all Cities”?

[@muntasifsusmit]

@@Gregoire0 why should it?? By that argument petra should be recognised at mother of cities in ancient maps.. Which it is not clearly.. R u dumb???

[@noble4520]

@@muntasifsusmit Any scholar knows that ancient cities are mentioned in the history, whether religious or historical books. Using the argument that Petra was not mentioned makes your argument weak and not valid. You should use your brain logically to think objectively and shift away from any bias thinking. Petra is found in the history books, Mecca is not. Calling someone who asked a logical question “ dumb” is a reflection of your own personality, since you were not able to answer the question.

[@kingmufasa8929]

Whatever bro. kzbin.info/www/bejne/jJSwiJRmeJmBgrM

[@ramonjalmaani4837]

it's farce not farse

[@silverltc2729]

Quran 14:37, is Mecca a valley?

[@jakobsharpe6111]

Using the Koran to justify this is called “circular reasoning” in other words, your using something that’s false to “prove” something that is actually still false.

[@sirac4600]

Al Tabari (a Muslim's scholar) said that The Amalekites lived near by Mecca, if you look in the Bible, the Amalekites were located at Moun Seir, this is few kilometers from Pétra, you can find this information in his book : '' Prophets and Patriachs vol. 2 page 73 (or search tool page 86). here is the link : docs.google.com/viewer?url=muslim-library.com/books/2019/05/en_Tabari_Volume_02.pdf

[@TinWinAkbar]

I found your arguments very compelling. Would you please let me know how can you debunk his claims that no archaeological artifacts were found in the Mecca that can prove that Mecca was an ancient city?

[@markorbit4752]

It's very strange and disappointing that he did not address this point

[@M.Campbell-Sherwood]

@@markorbit4752 It's because it speaks volumes.

[@koshurzon2378]

its so simple and would be waste to address this because even if we consider gibson's contention right still it Mecca would be atleast 1200 years old right? and do you think 1200 years old city would have got no artifacts? then according to gibson's claim it is not even that old it should be more likely to be more recently established city. it is simply the reason because the people in mecca lived very very ordinary lives and were of no match to the likes of sumer or indus and on the area where the qurash used to live is all under the holy mosque so it can't be dug up. Also artifacts are developed because civilizations either stop to exist or have a pause or a very state of turmoil many people forget things also it shows how well the people were doing in terms of finance and as far mecca was concern it was and is very basic if not for harem. At the end i just want to say that just use common sense, Mecca was never deserted even once in history so there is most probably that everything got properly used up in its continuity and i really like the way he explained it was fabulous, and the reason he didn't mention it was just it would be just a mockery of his time.

[@arlypaulmigueldamuy5221]

Mecca has no source of water. Water means life. Mecca is not where caravans passed. Qur'an in itself is being questioned. There are at least 30 different versions of Qur'an. The North African version and 1924 version have 5,000 different words (different meanings). All in all, the 30 different Qur'ans have 93,000 different words (different meanings). Nobody has refuted Jay Smith and PfanderFilms assertions whether Muhammad and Islam are not frauds.

[@reeceengineering3560]

@@koshurzon2378 The people in Mecca did live ordinary lives and thus would leave behind archaeological evidence. The ordinary people in Iron Age Britian living in small villages left behind quite enough to be discovered. In a more populated area like Mecca there will be pottery fragments and evidence of building foundations, espically defensive walls, that could be found today. However for this to be relevant there would need to have been digs in Modern day Mecca that turned up empty handed. Have there been? Im not sure and I dont recall if Dan's video addressed that. And about the missing walls, could it be that the walls the Quran reffers to are a metaphor or something? Perhaps thats why they were never found.

[@ebenezerobez2771]

Have olive trees ever grown in Mecca?

[@samuellindh2]

Where is the valley in Mecca?

[@RoninBkt]

What is a valley?

[@azimbeazim2676]

Thank you our brother! May Allaah bless u n ur holistic work!

[@Gregoire0]

Why is there no mention of Mecca in the ancient maps of Arabia while Muslims say it’s “Mother of all Cities”?

[@awalezz6498]

@@Gregoire0 Which Maps ?

[@danielbroomhall8882]

@@awalezz6498 all ancient maps of the time.

[@danielbroomhall8882]

this guy did not show anything.

[@naturehealing2952]

The David kings reaction was natural ......... because Dan Gibson's research has decreased credibility of David's work of years.

[@yldrmkucukkeles7022]

The 18-minute documentary Ancient Mega Structures 1 Episode Petra (Turkish), prepared by Natural Geographic and published on KZbin, the very interesting Al Khazneh building is turned into a computer environment and its side view is given. (He talks about translating from translation in verse 18 of Surat al-Kahf.) The 45th minute of the same documentary is also very interesting, the sun is coming from the right to Al Khazneh. As it is said in the verse. Frankly, I think this building was built for Ashabi Kahf. - (Ashabi Kahf is known as the seven sleepers

[@yldrmkucukkeles7022]

@volkz The Arabs and the Anatolian people have already abandoned Islam. It is not possible to form an opinion about the Qur'an by looking at these people. Those who are recognized as Muslims today abandoned the Qur'an after the Prophet Muhammad and followed the religion of their ancestors. Like Muslims, Jews and Christians are people who follow the religion of their ancestors, not the Law of the Sacred Scriptures. I wish you well-being.

[@shekhinah09]

does mecca have valley?

[@darkenergy7121]

Thanks for compiling this video. This is one of the best refutation video to Dan Gibson's that i found so far.

[@Gregoire0]

Why is there no mention of Mecca in the ancient maps of Arabia while Muslims say it’s “Mother of all Cities”?

[@sandytatham3592]

It's a big stretch to say that the "mother of all cities" means at some time in Mecca's future, in its potential. #MentalGymnastics

[@StanbyMode]

So then explain to me how petra, a city completely abandoned 300 years before the Prophet, is the mother of all cities

[@MsJfraser]

Regarding Surah 2:142, why is the direction one faces while in prayer important if both the east and the west belong to Allah? It seems that it's not the direction of the compass, but the direction of the heart that matters. I've seen Muslims facing north while doing prayers. Does Allah ignore their prayers?

[@GhulamMustafa-tf1wc]

I.have a question in my.mind...can someone answer?_if ancient mosques are pointing towards petra due to weak mathematical and scientific approaches of old time, so how all the peoples (of different areas) made a.same type of mistakes...? Means, all the people of all different areas committed the same mistake of pointing their mosques towards petra??? How?

[@nyamantiehmongomarah7997]

You still have not provided any evidence...it's just another counter claims not different from other elaborate explanations...give evidences to support your claims...Dan Gibson is right based on fact..

[@colinpatterson6249]

Why do the abduls nearly always begin like barking dogs ?

[@colinpatterson6249]

Aquilla Athena - Not in particular - but its clear that all of Gibson's claims are in principle open to empirical checking and if what he says is correct then its especially shocking for Mohammadans.

[@colinpatterson6249]

Hmm...your reply might be good...do you want to discuss Gibson's work or not ?

[@colinpatterson6249]

My argument is that IF the claims of Gibson are false then it should be EASY to show that they are false. For example either the Quibla of the great mosque of Guangzhou faces PETRA or it does not. If it does not face PETRA Gibson is mistaken or a lying. If it does indeed face PETRA then how can the servants of Al- Lah explain that ? - Each of Gibson's claims must be treated in the same way - ie establish where what he says is true or false and then accept the implications - SIMPLE ?

[@soparsirait4923]

The problem is Islam scholar dont have prove to defend..

[@jefriabdullah9143]

How do you tawaf in Petra?

[@budakcacat8828]

And u think there's actual tawaf in petra? 🤣

[@Rashida961]

Brilliant perception! Its logic.

[@hans471]

There used to be a qaaba building in petra (but it was destroyed during the second fitna according to Gibsons theory). You find the info in his movie "the sacred city"

[@budakcacat8828]

@@hans471 so petra is where the origin of hindhuism right?

[@deadcannotdance9761]

dude.. Do you have any idea about the TIME of Abraham or any other thing really from any other source except the Quran?

[@immdaad]

Please tell me what Petra is the than?

[@AghaAbbas7]

May Allah swt Reward you for your effort and provide you more opportunities to expose lies inshaAllah..I really enjoyed your presentation and agree almost everything,you make lot of sense..jazaak Allah brother 👏

[@thearmouredsaint164]

He didn't change my opinion of agreeing with dan gibson, he barely addressed anything that dan gibson spoke on, he just waffled on about mecca/becca why would he waste his time if he's not going to debunk dan gibson's arguments

[@ahmedhashim2652]

Shame on you for making this historical discourse into a conspiracy on your type of Islam.

[@user-wy3rb3xj8o]

Где найти с переводом?

[@bangaluyusuf]

The valley of Mecca or Becca according to Gibson claim becomes an issue firstly with regards to the valley of.... the point is first is mecca a valley? Deal with this first. Thanks

[@mollaconan]

Most of the counterarguments seem to me very weak. For example, God says to Abraham "I WILL make you ...", but for Mecca he says "it's the mother of villages/towns. " One is about prophesying something that will happen in the future , the other is informing about something already happened, but the name Mecca was nowhere to be found before Islam. Even if we grant that it was a prophesy, it would be called a "self-fulfilling prophesy", that is, if Islam was flourished in Manila, millions of people would go there to perform Hajj, then you would propose the same argument. Furthermore, umm al-kura and Mecca (or Becca) don't appear in the same ayah, so it's not clear what/where is called "umm al-kura," so calling Mecca as umm al-kura has no solid historical ground, but calling Petra as umm al-kura would have an historical ground. One word about the style of presentation: Although the presentation is fairly good, the frequent laughs diminish the desired effect. Dan Gibson does it seriously and gives the impression of an academic presentation.

[@FaizanKhan-ms7wd]

Addressing the matter with prophet Abraham pbuh first " I will make you " isn't written anywhere when at the age of 99 god changed his name from Abram to Abraham which means father of multitude , it's just a way of explaining things by the person narrating , so god isn't talking to Abraham pbuh him saying I will make you father of multitude he just gave him a name meaning thats it. And when you study the Qur'an you would come to know that some verses are for the past some are for the present some for a particular person some for a group and others for everyone so if we look at the mother of city's at that time it may not have made that much sense but today its undeniable and yes it may fit Petra in those years but does it fit know who lives in Petra to even call it a city in the 7th century AD Petra saw a huge decline in its population. ( If you ask how we know which verse was for whom and what time , there are various hadiths explaining the things going on and you can study them and understand everything written in the Qur'an if you don't understand something.

[@barbarabhatti9054]

your argument is very weak. i think Dans nailed it with overwhelming evidence.

[@barbarabhatti9054]

@M-K Production there,s no malis in my comment, you should learn to take mild criticism and i dont have to tell you how i feel about Islam, i was born and raised in Pakistan so i know the Religion well. and as i said, i think he nailed it.

[@mohammedjamil2277]

@@barbarabhatti9054 If you read into the civil wars between Ali and Muawiya where thousands of companions of Muhammad died in both camps these battles took place in Syria and Iraq i.e. jamalun siffin and nahrwan! It is alleged that Ali and Muawiya 1 were born in mecca present day Saudi Arabia supposedly then migrated to medina and finally ended up in Syria and Iraq highly dubious and laughable! The distance between mecca and Damascus is 1,763.1 kilometres. Islam was established further north inbetween Syria and Iraq at a much later date during the ummayad caliphate in abdal maliks time. The quran hadith and seerah of Muhammad are all latter day forgeries written much later than suggested. Muawiya was the governor of Damascus in Syria and Ali is buried in najaf in iraq although disputed. Muhammad was not from mecca. Islam the religion was established at a later date. It's all one big fabricated deception a whim. The ka'aba is an idol and a latter day construct built by Yemeni pagan arabs centuries later!

[@user-qr2xd4wp7v]

​@@barbarabhatti9054DAN IS A LIAR

[@user-qr2xd4wp7v]

​@@mohammedjamil2277we have reliable islamic sources like sahifa hammam ibn munabbih from the 7th century that debunk dan entirely we early biographies of the prophet from urwa ibn al zubayr, ibn ishaq and suleiman bin tankhan as well

[@user-qr2xd4wp7v]

We have quran manuscripts from 7th century around the prophet's time mentioning mecca

[@takh6806]

Baraka ALLAHU feek brother all GOD blessing for you and all our brothers and sisters

[@jdowning39]

The kaaba, is in cuba, hence cube-ah, anyone else have info on this?

[@zulfiqarsoomro3103]

How are we going away from Islam ? He makes many convincing arguments ..

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

2:32 this guy says that if someone can prove something in the quran is wrong, to just ignore them. that is called intentional ignorance or stupid on purpose.

[@badbada3003]

What's wrong with that tho

[@bicjornadal]

This guy explains well, why not to try study history deeply. (i did that to myself) ✌️... Peace 😊

[@houseofsaudisthebeast]

@@badbada3003 the quran is a counterfeit book written by followers of a false prophet. if people simply ignore everyone trying to warn them, they will all end up in hell

[@thearmouredsaint164]

And thats exactly what they'll do, "we as muslims hear and obey", without understanding...

[@MuslimforAllah.]

very good brother peace be with you.

[@prashant6837]

Where is the Valley ??

[@bilalawan1371]

Masha Allah brother you have best described everything. There is just one thing which if you can add. As far as direction of Qiblah is concerned, its strange that everyone thinks of Qiblah only as the direction towards which Muslims pray 5 times a day. Hence all the debate on directions of mosques. Why everyone keeps forgetting that Muslims also bury their dead facing the Qiblah? I am sure the number of mosques are very very less as compared to number of Muslim graves. Why not look at the graves of muslims from early era? Mosques have been reconstructed in history but the graves remain as they are. Look into the direction of muslim graves and the truth will be revealed.

[@theguidancecounsellor2948]

Interesting....I also made a rebuttal to Dan's documentary and feel free to view it on my channel

[@NoelCarroll-wv6qd]

Are you on drugs, this was the worst apologetic against Gibson that I ever heard

[@HereForAwhile]

Like the tombs at Petra?

[@rajaseelan6934]

Very weak argument. Still haven't debunked Dan Gibson's hypothesis.

[@stevefreer3424]

Yes Psalm 84 . The Hebrew translates Valley of Bacca as Vale of Tears..this rips his argument to shreds ..The Psalm also refers to Zion and yearns for the presence of The Living God. Can Allah enter creation and be in our presence? For Muslims to quote this prayer/psalm as proof for anything Islamic is quite ridiculous.

[@colinpatterson6249]

Yes you are right more chat and rhetoric - starts off like that

[@Deepthinkerindia]

Gibson Does not See the direction of Masjide Nabvi wich built by our Muhammad (peace be oppon him)

[@Diamondraw4Real]

@@stevefreer3424 so are u saying there are no cities called the same name as other cities anywhere in the world? And Becca is Petra just bc there was an earthquake. The Arabians also had wars and lots of ppl died. They could also have called their city Becca for that reason... just saying

[@abunawas3315]

The fools among the people will say: 'What has turned them from the Qibla to which they were used?' Say: 'To Allah belong both East and West: He guides whom He will to a Way that is straight.' _(Qur'an __2:14__2)_ Baitul-Maqdis (Jerusalem) and Petra, *both cities* are located *almost to the north* from the city of Madinah. (5 degrees differences in bearing between both cities, from Madinah, and about 30 degrees West to be exact). _If_ Petra is supposedly to be considered as "Mecca", hence the changing to the new Qibla would still facing to *almost the same north direction* !!! , _thus_ some people of Madinah at that time (as the above mentioned verse) _won't be argued_ at all to the prophet Muhammad s.a.a.w, but indeed *they did argued.* Meaning, the prophet s.a.a.w. and muslims were facing to south, towards Mecca as the new Qibla. ... therefore, to consider Petra as Mecca is just *_merely a conjecture_* !!! The following is more even funny, nonsense, illogical yet uncomprehended ..... kzbin.info/www/bejne/fnm2nZWEl76Lf9k Al Aqsa . ~ watch: _circa __5:30__ to __9:16_ Dan Gibson mentioned that Al-Aqsa Mosque and Al-Haram Mosque are *both in Petra,* just a 8 kilometers in distance apart !!! ...{in the same city ! } if so... thus, the verse of changing direction of a new Qibla doesn't make any sense at all !!! ...{because of its same direction to the same city of Petra !} ...so again, to consider Petra as Mecca is just a *_merely conjecture_* !!!

[@faizanhashmi389]

If you change 1degree in direction for 5000 km distace it's 50 km direction change . This one degree is precise . At that time 10 to20 degree change then it come to 500 km change

[@marcelvidale]

Valley of Mecca / Becca - Mecca in Saudi Arabia is NOT in a valley - This is more like a sermon than a reasoned argument. The Mother of all cities is NOT a reference to today. There is no archaeological evidence of Mecca being a thriving city unlike Petra. King's argument is totally flawed. Gibson's argument is very convincing on many fronts. The Quran and Hadith are consistent with his hypothesis. The geography, various wars, quibla direction, lack of trade route, lack of historical reference, as well as the earliest texts of the Quran not in the Kufic text totally contradict what was said here as they no not mention a Mecca. His argument boils down to "I believe my version of the Quran regardless!!"

[@intesarkhan4147]

Dan Gibson rely on technology. Did he can give any account of his Great grand father.Any Evidence to his forefather religion

[@LPempty]

Lmao he is using technology and geographic description in the Quran. How dare he

[@sheesmustafa9522]

Presentism fallacy

[@nittygritty7816]

Absolutely awesome brother. Absolutely flawless, loved it

[@danielbroomhall8882]

flawless? this video does not show anything...

[@akameel]

Islam is a living religion. It is not a dead religion lost in time, that needs to be rediscovered through archeological findings. From day one, everyday, 5 times daily Muslims pray towards Mecca and perform pilgrimage there annually. Within first 100 years Islam had spread widely covering even northern Africa. If anyone changed the location of pilgrimage, there would have been a lot of hoo-haas. There is also Shia and Sunni Muslims. How come no one had talked about or written about a location change of Mecca? For me that itself debunks Dan Gibson. However, archeological research and findings can strengthen further Muslim history.

[@akameel]

Excellent rebuttal Alhamdulillah. Answers seem embedded in the Qur'an itself. Jazakallahu Khairan Kathiran. One question brother - Any reason why the Hijr Ismail seem to point towards Petra? Is it just a coincidence?

[@ashraphziraba7027]

Am just out of words, but truth to be told, it is such an amazing information to the ISLAMIC fraternity. May ALLAH reward you abundantly.

[@amuthi1]

So if we take the quran as evidence then flatearthers would be right, the sun would be setting under the throne of Allah every night.

[@aamersuhail123]

Why All early Mosques facing here n there especially Petra for the first 100 years. ?

[@aviradius4455]

Before israa and miraaj mosques faced jerusalem

[@spotthecat2412]

@@aviradius4455 Any Mosque built after AD624 should face Mecca (KSA) but they don't, it took about 100 years before the first one did and 200 yrs+/- before all of them did.

[@Titan_Ruler622]

@@salehdargahi4355 That is true sir. There are hundreds of islamic scholars around the world and also many muslim doctrates in western countries as well. It would be much better when one of them step forward and scientifically disprove Dan Gibson's allegations rather than making youtube videos, just simply claiming it's all false and absolutely groundless.

[@mohsinahmed8640]

Good job may allah bless you brother..i love you

[@mikegoehring1967]

Just one simple question: which Quran are you using as your reference material? There are more than four and every group that holds their's "swears" that they have the original!

[@buzzlightyear1010]

mike goehring there’s only 1 quran? brother i think you meant to say bible but it’s cool.

[@mikegoehring1967]

@@buzzlightyear1010 yes, there is only one Qu'ran but have you read it well? How many times is Mecca mentioned? And what description did it give? Look at Al Tabari's description of Mecca and tell me it matches Mecca in Saudi Arabia. Why is the earliest Qu'ran dated to the late 8th Century? Also, why don't the Qu'rans found in the repair mosque have Sura 2?

[@camenezes1]

Come out from your closet n engage in a open scholarly discussion with Dan Gibson. We can judge then ....

[@flamming_arrow]

Where he will be available. I willbring scholar

[@camenezes1]

@@flamming_arrow Gibson has thrown open the debate to ALL esp muslims and as a true academic, he is open to change views provided they are based on rationale n not gibberish . Sure Allah will provide you the instructions how to access his 'availability'. BTW, so has CP, Sam, Rob, David, challanged the "gurus" Zaek, Shabbir etc yet NO ONE has yet dare come on a live public Platorm as this to rebutt their challenges.

[@gabbar51ngh]

@@camenezes1 Kaaba is a pagan and polytheist place of worship. nothing can be bigger shirk than praying towards a stone.

[@gerardoconcepcion920]

Yes! These morons contradict facts of history & science_ archeology & philosophy etc!_ just to defend the lies & falsity of islam & its quran!...islam apologists are dominating the social media to spread of their bogus valueless islam! They are now educated by our western educational system bcos they gave none are trying to impose lies & falsity by continue to lie & live in their lies to deceive us who kniw better than them a thousand fold!...Folks Stay away from this false devilish religion of all times to eternity!

[@gerardoconcepcion920]

We follow you Chris M sir! The guy starts with his bias, not laying his cards on the table but hidding something in his sleeve! Dan Gibson is cold, sensitive archeologist & open-minded as he can support the truth of what he saying!. Thanks!

[@papaiswatching]

Dan is right because of the numerous proves he has so gently put forward. You need to put up some worthy proves before you come up with your sarcastic videos.

[@hamedkadkhodaie]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/qGPGdnx6j9x6a68

[@TahaWasiq]

There is much evidence that Prophet Muhammad lived in the same Makkah as today. Makkah was a simple settlement, tents and huts. It was in the late 400s CE that mud brick houses were built. The Kabbah was built from alternate layers of wood and rock, an architectural design of southern Arabia, not Petra. Hence looking for huge architectural remains is wrong. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKDSfXuagZWLppo But it does not mean that there is no archaeological evidence from Makkah. Masjid Al Haraam is mentioned being rebuilt in Makkah by the Umayyads, (while they should be against doing so, according to this documentary) in an rock inscription 697 AD. You can view the inscription here. www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1 There are three rock inscriptions from Makkah Containing Verses of Quran 1; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah2.html 2; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah6.html 3; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah5.html According to Dan, Makkah did not exist back then. Plus There is some more evidence that a city named Makkah did exist: Mecca is mentioned in the following early Quranic manuscripts: Codex Is. 1615 I, folio 47v, radiocarbon dated to 591-643 CE. Codex Ṣanʿāʾ DAM 01-29.1, folio 29a, radiocarbon dated between 633-665 CE. Codex Arabe 331, folio 40 v, radiocarbon dated between 652-765 CE. Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة, "Servant of Mecca") and Makky (مَكِّي, "Meccan") These predate Islam. Makkah is there in Arab Byzantine Chronicle of 741 www.aymennjawad.org/23129/the-byzantine-arabic-chronicle-full-translation Syriac Christian source, John bar Penkaye, written c. 687 CE, where there is mention of the ‘sanctuary’ (i.e., al-Masjid al-Ḥarām) where some of the fighting occurred. Another contemporary Syriac Christian source, Letters of Jacob of Edessa, written sometime between 684 and 708 CE, further identifies the Muslim direction of prayer toward the Ka’ba, Problems with this documentary of Dan Gibson; It is “Masjid al Haram” not “Masjid al Haraam”. Har’a’m (sacred) and Har’aa’m (forbidden). How come the floods destroyed the Kaaba of Petra and the test of the city still surives? In the Siege of Mecca (683), The Kaaba was severely damaged by fire during the siege (as it was built with alternate layers of rock and wood). Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, a companion of the Prophet rebuilt it purely out of stone. It was rebuilt again in the Siege of Mecca (692) and this time by the Umayyad Caliphate which retook Makkah. They could have simply brought it back to Petra if it was the original qibla. See www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1.html for more archeological proof for Masjid al Haram. Several Mosques from the time, which don't fit into Dan's Theory, simply are not mentioned. Descriptions of the Islamic holy city fit Makkah not Petra. There was lackage of water in Makkah and flooding occurred when it rained heavily. The pagan temples were destroyed by Muslims and the wall surrounding the city was simple and small, while Petra had dams to store water and hence no flooding occurred. Its pagan temples still survive. There was no lackage of water in Petra, they even had swimming Pools. Dan Gibson exaggerated Al-Tabari, and al Tabari is an unreliable source. both Makkah (Surah 48 verse 24) and Bakkah (surah 3 verse 96) are mentioned in the Quran. Hence the word “Bakkah” was not changed to “Makkah” in quran as claimed by Dan Gibson or else both verses would have mentioned “Makkah”. Besides Petra was originally known to its inhabitants as Raqmu, not Bakkah. Ka'ba itself was aligned in accordance with natural and astronomical phenomena. The early Muslims say, "knew that, when facing a particular wall or corner of the Ka'ba in Mecca, one was facing a particular solar or stellar rising or setting point; they assumed that, away from Mecca, if one faced in that same astronomical direction one would still be facing the same wall or corner of the Ka'ba. That is how they calculated the Qibla, thinking that Kabba was the center of the world.That's why the early Mosques did not accurately face Makkah. As Biruni asserts: "Even the professional astronomers find the qibla problem difficult to solve, so you can imagine how difficult it is for non-astronomers," a comment echoed more tersely by his contemporary Nasr ibn 'Abd Allah: "Seeking this object (the qibla) by way of calculation is difficult." Jacob, bishop of Edessa (684-88), who was asked the question why the Jews pray facing south, to which he gave the following reply: Your question is vain ... for it is not to the south that the Jews pray, nor either do the Muslims (mhaggriiye). The Jews who live in Egypt, and also the Muslims there, as I saw with my own eyes and will now set out for you, prayed to the east, and still do, both peoples-the Jews towards Jerusalem and the Muslims towards the Ka'ba. And those Jews who are to the south of Jerusalem pray to the north; and those in the land of Babel, in Hira and in Basra, pray to the west. And also the Muslims who are there pray to the west, towards the Ka'ba; and those who are to the south of the Ka'ba pray to the north, towards that place. So from all this that has been said, it is clear that it is not to the south that the Jews and Muslims here in the regions of Syria pray, but towards Jerusalem or the Ka'ba, the patriarchal places of their races. Conclusion, Dan Gibson based his documentary on weak and unreliable sources, whom he hater considered unreliable himself when he said that Abbasid era writings are not reliable. He never considered how the Arabs searched for the Qibla, only falsely assuming that they were good at it. He falsely assumed that Makkah was a huge city with public buildings, abundant vegetation and city walls. Then he failed to find such things in excavations in Makkah. He Jumbled up the entire chronology from 650 CE (UTHMAN), 680s CE (IBN ZUBAIR) and 750s CE (AS SAFFAH) to proove his point. He can only fool the people who are unaware of the Islamic history. NOT ME.

[@TahaWasiq]

@@FaithBiete Where in the Quran it says that Makkah had olives? You know little about history and yet start to talk about it.

[@shimulshimul7931]

@@TahaWasiq Salam.. U said some thamudic inscription tell about mecca And this inscription situated in jordan.. Is that mean mecca can be situated in jordan??? And it that inscription in arabic letter??? Or thamudic letter?? It that inscription before islam?? I ask 3 questions.. Plzz serially ans it..

[@TahaWasiq]

@@misterlogik8163 There is much evidence that Prophet Muhammad lived in the same Makkah as today. Makkah was a simple settlement, tents and huts. It was in the late 400s CE that mud brick houses were built. The Kabbah was built from alternate layers of wood and rock, an architectural design of southern Arabia, not Petra. Hence looking for huge architectural remains is wrong. kzbin.info/www/bejne/rKDSfXuagZWLppo But it does not mean that there is no archaeological evidence from Makkah. Masjid Al Haraam is mentioned being rebuilt in Makkah by the Umayyads, (while they should be against doing so, according to this documentary) in an rock inscription 697 AD. You can view the inscription here. www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1 There are three rock inscriptions from Makkah Containing Verses of Quran 1; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah2.html 2; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah6.html 3; www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/makkah5.html According to Dan, Makkah did not exist back then. Plus There is some more evidence that a city named Makkah did exist: Mecca is mentioned in the following early Quranic manuscripts: Codex Is. 1615 I, folio 47v, radiocarbon dated to 591-643 CE. Codex Ṣanʿāʾ DAM 01-29.1, folio 29a, radiocarbon dated between 633-665 CE. Codex Arabe 331, folio 40 v, radiocarbon dated between 652-765 CE. Some Thamudic inscriptions which were discovered in the south Jordan contained names of some individuals such as ʿAbd Mekkat (عَبْد مَكَّة, "Servant of Mecca") and Makky (مَكِّي, "Meccan") These predate Islam. Makkah is there in Arab Byzantine Chronicle of 741 www.aymennjawad.org/23129/the-byzantine-arabic-chronicle-full-translation Syriac Christian source, John bar Penkaye, written c. 687 CE, where there is mention of the ‘sanctuary’ (i.e., al-Masjid al-Ḥarām) where some of the fighting occurred. Another contemporary Syriac Christian source, Letters of Jacob of Edessa, written sometime between 684 and 708 CE, further identifies the Muslim direction of prayer toward the Ka’ba, Makkah or Macoraba is there in Ptolemy's map of arabia. 2nd century CE. Problems with this documentary of Dan Gibson; It is “Masjid al Haram” not “Masjid al Haraam”. Har’a’m (sacred) and Har’aa’m (forbidden). How come the floods destroyed the Kaaba of Petra and the test of the city still surives? In the Siege of Mecca (683), The Kaaba was severely damaged by fire during the siege (as it was built with alternate layers of rock and wood). Abd Allah ibn al-Zubayr, a companion of the Prophet rebuilt it purely out of stone. It was rebuilt again in the Siege of Mecca (692) and this time by the Umayyad Caliphate which retook Makkah. They could have simply brought it back to Petra if it was the original qibla. See www.islamic-awareness.org/history/islam/inscriptions/haram1.html for more archeological proof for Masjid al Haram. Several Mosques from the time, which don't fit into Dan's Theory, simply are not mentioned. Descriptions of the Islamic holy city fit Makkah not Petra. There was lackage of water in Makkah and flooding occurred when it rained heavily. The pagan temples were destroyed by Muslims and the wall surrounding the city was simple and small, while Petra had dams to store water and hence no flooding occurred. Its pagan temples still survive. There was no lackage of water in Petra, they even had swimming Pools. Dan Gibson exaggerated Al-Tabari, and al Tabari is an unreliable source. both Makkah (Surah 48 verse 24) and Bakkah (surah 3 verse 96) are mentioned in the Quran. Hence the word “Bakkah” was not changed to “Makkah” in quran as claimed by Dan Gibson or else both verses would have mentioned “Makkah”. Besides Petra was originally known to its inhabitants as Raqmu, not Bakkah. Ka'ba itself was aligned in accordance with natural and astronomical phenomena. The early Muslims say, "knew that, when facing a particular wall or corner of the Ka'ba in Mecca, one was facing a particular solar or stellar rising or setting point; they assumed that, away from Mecca, if one faced in that same astronomical direction one would still be facing the same wall or corner of the Ka'ba. That is how they calculated the Qibla, thinking that Kabba was the center of the world.That's why the early Mosques did not accurately face Makkah. As Biruni asserts: "Even the professional astronomers find the qibla problem difficult to solve, so you can imagine how difficult it is for non-astronomers," a comment echoed more tersely by his contemporary Nasr ibn 'Abd Allah: "Seeking this object (the qibla) by way of calculation is difficult." Jacob, bishop of Edessa (684-88), who was asked the question why the Jews pray facing south, to which he gave the following reply: Your question is vain ... for it is not to the south that the Jews pray, nor either do the Muslims (mhaggriiye). The Jews who live in Egypt, and also the Muslims there, as I saw with my own eyes and will now set out for you, prayed to the east, and still do, both peoples-the Jews towards Jerusalem and the Muslims towards the Ka'ba. And those Jews who are to the south of Jerusalem pray to the north; and those in the land of Babel, in Hira and in Basra, pray to the west. And also the Muslims who are there pray to the west, towards the Ka'ba; and those who are to the south of the Ka'ba pray to the north, towards that place. So from all this that has been said, it is clear that it is not to the south that the Jews and Muslims here in the regions of Syria pray, but towards Jerusalem or the Ka'ba, the patriarchal places of their races. Conclusion, Dan Gibson based his documentary on weak and unreliable sources, whom he hater considered unreliable himself when he said that Abbasid era writings are not reliable. He never considered how the Arabs searched for the Qibla, only falsely assuming that they were good at it. He falsely assumed that Makkah was a huge city with public buildings, abundant vegetation and city walls. Then he failed to find such things in excavations in Makkah. He Jumbled up the entire chronology from 650 CE (UTHMAN), 680s CE (IBN ZUBAIR) and 750s CE (AS SAFFAH) to proove his point. He can only fool the people who are unaware of the Islamic history. NOT ME.

[@Aerosmithism]

13:19 thats because unlike places around it this particular valley doesn't have vegetation. If that was the norm, there wouldn't be a need to specifiy.

[@akameel]

God knew thousands of years later people would be arguing about it. So he mentions it in the Qur'an. So argument that Mecca had vegetation with fruit trees etc. is easily thrown out...

[@danielbroomhall8882]

but you cant contradict archeology, you can easily inspect the soil to know what used to be grown there...you can go deep hundreds of metres down and still find it. The soil in Mecca is not like that at all, anywhere around.

[@AliAli-pf5id]

There’s loads of hadiths talking about taif as well and the explanation of the distance for travelling to shorten Salah

[@AliAli-pf5id]

@Al Mudarabah Petra wasn’t there’s even evidence in sa3da where I am from that Mecca is where it is today. Do not be fooled by the enemy’s of Islam.

[@wolfofthewolves]

al salam alaikm, i do agree with you in regards "mecca" and "becca" arguments that dan presented are weak. but i must say that assuming that petra is the real mecca it would make way more sense in so many ways. i dont want to dress all things, but i can adress 3 points that always botheres me before: 1- where are the Nabateans? where did they vanish? why there is no records of their islam? uless they are Quraish? 2- if petra is the real mecca it would make sense that houses all kind of religions, just like any other trade cities. and its very clear from the Quran and hadith that Mecca wherever it is, was both a hub for praying and trading. just like petra. 3- imam hussain pbuh, he was killed in Karbal. which is North of Kufa.... how??? if he was heading to kufa from Hijaz he would be some where south of kufa. not north west. and as far as i know there is no dispute and the whereabout of where he was massecared. there are more points, but that dosnt mean that we should change the way i pray, nor to which direction. because im not praying to stones or direction. im praying for my creator. he wanted us be one, and thats the main point here, if 51% to 90% of muslims pray toword mecca in tuhama then ill follow, if they pray toword petra then ill follow also. the lesson here that the Ummayids and the Abbasids are pricks and we should take all their teachings as lies. they turned islam to an abomination. they deserve all the hate and curses possible.

[@freedoyopothman6491]

agree

[@moroccanheat6398]

I'll have to agree with you.

[@jliever1785]

That is beautifully explained and I agree.

[@ranapratapsingh3416]

There is no archaeological existence of Mecca .

[@umarsyed7538]

Can you add some more points please?

[@peace2080]

Arguments alone are very weak. Dan Gibson's works are very scientific. Dan Gibson is too powerful for simple explanations like that. You had better listen to Dan Gibson.

[@2212funkyfresh]

Dan Gibson was scathed by an actual scholar in this field, David King. David said most of Gibsons research in anachronistic because most of the mosques didn’t even exist then. Furthermore, he never visited the majority of ancient mosques to see INSIDE to notice which direction they pray INSIDE. Using Google satellite isn’t science it’s lazy research. Gibson wasn’t even competent enough to explain the change in degree is so vast as a person gets further from Makkah, the ruling is simply to point east. Zero historical documentation of a single witness to his claim. It’s a joke for naive people ignorant of academia.

[@tys6739]

Just asking. Is Mecca a valley?

[@FaizanKhan-ms7wd]

Yes it is a valley , valley is a low land between hills or mountains Mecca is between two small hills safa and marwa .

[@Glockenstein0869]

Which quran are we talking about? We have more than 30 qurans to pick from....

[@omadayebesan2498]

Which one did u read,Truth-seeker?

[@projectsuperhuman4859]

Brother, Islam is my family religion & I gave you Dislike. Did you really watched Dan Gibson's documentary ? Do you even realize how weak is your argument ?

[@johannessimeonidis184]

What a load of fundamental crap! Who are you and what is tour profession? Dan Gibson is a scientist that has researched about this practically his hole life. He would literally crush you in a debate.

[@halfvolley11]

His research has flaws. Gibson don't have evidence.

[@diamoxd1151]

2:149 does not say "during salaat" but has been added in using parentheses

[@abrahamsemaan7535]

So just a question, are you saying that ahadith is incorrect?

[@sal_strazzullo]

Yes, you can check other videos on this channel. Most Muslims in the word are Sunni, Shia, Ahmadi, Ihbadi... but apart from these major sects, there are also individual thinkers in Islam who question the legitimacy of the ahadith literature mainly on the basis that it was started at least 200 years after Mohammed's death, and on the fact that the isnaad method is flawed.

[@musabashraf]

Excellent work brother. Quran is the greateat miracle.

[@captainmomo2153]

Earth is not flat😂🤣

[@onur4055]

That's why there are 30+ types of different qurans. 🤔

[@Ma-km7yt]

@@onur4055 there’s one quran 🙃

[@onur4055]

@@Ma-km7yt hahahaha you are one of those not-knowing muslims

[@jahangul5380]

@@onur4055 only one

[@i.ivanov8438]

Thanks bro, now I'm sure that documentary has stronger points then I thought. Peace.

[@gladtidingstothestrangers7333]

Thanks ivanov. You just proved you are a complete fart. Thanks mate.

[@racypies]

Agreed Ivanov watched several videos of top clerics and now this one...so far nothing they say disproves (lots of talking, few actually saying anything. It's like watching a politician during the debates stalling for time). I'm beginning to wonder...

[@i.ivanov8438]

@@gladtidingstothestrangers7333 ad hominem is admission of ignorance.

[@gladtidingstothestrangers7333]

@@i.ivanov8438 interpreting truth as an ad hominem attack is the mother of ignorance.

[@i.ivanov8438]

@@gladtidingstothestrangers7333 "fart" is a body waste made of gas. I am not made of gas. Calling someone "fart" doesn't mean anything than noise. Is there archeological remains in Mecca; no. Is there any valid argument for older Qibla directions; no. Do you rely on a single piece that is only evidence if you believe it first and then read it; yes. so, go play over there...

[@eliyasasefa6215]

May Bless you and Grant you Jannah al Firdaus Ameen. Thank you Brother and may Allah guide us All.

[@abebebesobela4591]

how could u be a muslim jeles semik eko eliyas nw......

[@eliyasasefa6215]

@abebe besobela simeem Imnateem ye Allah sitota nw. Alhamdulillah le islam labekagn Getaa. Eliyaas gin ye nabiyy sim nw as in Iliyaas nw minebebewu be Islam. 🙂

[@abebebesobela4591]

@@eliyasasefa6215 ay sorry abatik obviously christian nw leza nw yestek beye nw.....so are u a convert?

[@asouluntameable]

@@abebebesobela4591 Nuhh, my dad is a Muslim too my G

[@abebebesobela4591]

@@asouluntameable a muslim guy named asefa okay that is a new one.....aren't muslims supposed to have names related to islam usually in arabic.....

[@christiaanpauw]

See the al Rabadha Mosque. Petra is to the north, Mecca to the south. It's not a mistake. Same with the Sahi Ramdah Mosque and Qiblatain Mosque. You cannot argue that these are just inaccuracies. In fact, the database show how astonishingly accurate the ancients were