Picard And Young Guinan Bar Scene Part 2 | Star Trek Picard S02E04

[@V4EVega]

Brian Quinn, the only Q that Guinan has no problems with lol. Impractical Jokers: Alright Q, for your punishment all you have to do is pick up a dog from an El-Aruian. Q: That's it? What's the catch? I.P.: oh you have to tell her resistance is futile and prepare to be assimilated Q: What, she's gonna kill me! I.P.: You have to do it bud, it's a punishment

[@klausjohnson4133]

The most non-canon detail here is that Guinan isn’t wearing a hat.

[@skoshman1]

That was the change that Q did. It also explains why she hates Q... you don't mess with a girl's hat!

[@jeffreyjeziorski1480]

And all that weight loss.

[@icecreamdf5259]

Exactly. Everything is perfect, except that she is missing a hat. Guinan without a hat just isn’t right.

[@americasfavoritehoarder]

I hated those giant hats. They remind me of those super huge sombrero's.

[@DavidLS1]

Maybe she started wearing hats when she was older.

[@howardlanus8467]

This Guinan absolutely nailed it. She gave that critique on the human species, OUR species, perfectly, and it was 100% right. Let's all give a big round of applause for such a stellar performance.

[@chase2806]

God damn! Young Guinan is buff. 😍

[@augustjsb]

Right!

[@catman351]

Some chocolate arms right there.

[@ronaldlebeck9577]

And she's a hottie! Woo!

[@UncleMikeNJ]

You shoulda seen Whoopi at that age. When she was on The Arsenio Hall Show, Arsenio complimented her on, as he put it, "your onion." She had the legs to pose for the Sister Act poster. And this lady clearly knows how to Whoopi: She nailed it.

[@LunarLizard]

I have a feeling there's a connection between her race and the borg other than the fact that the Borg assimilated her world (will assimilate)

[@blackreaper2247]

more than likely the El-Aurian is where the queen and borg collective assimilated their semi-awareness of temporal reality

[@CorsetLebelle]

That or maybe her race invented the borg

[@alexsolomon7991]

@@CorsetLebelle nope. Guinan's wierd abilities come from her awareness of her other self in Star trek: generations that's still stuck in that "ribbon"...said self granting her a level of multidimensional awareness that others of her race don't have. As for all the people complaining about time travel...even in Star trek proper, there are MULTIPLE methods of travelling through space/time...which can potentially have diffrent effects. I'm reminded of Lovecraft's Hounds of Tindalos, where it's described that "humans move through the curves of time, but the Hounds move through the angles" (and are predators that are attracted to/kill any time travelers they encounter)

[@blackreaper2247]

​@@CorsetLebelle unfortunately we know that the the El-Aurians were assimilated by the borg during 2200s and we already know the Borg existed long before that having been only a handful of systems back in the 1400s according to voyager's Vaadwar.

[@BlazingOwnager]

The only aspect of this I could buy is if her people is how the Borg Queen got her time awareness powers. "A uniquely El-Aurian condition" except it applies just as much to the queen..

[@wristdisabledwriter2893]

When Picard talked about her ability with timelines I immediately said that explains yesterday’s enterprise

[@erosion271]

seeing Q from Impractical Jokers randomly appear took me completely out the scene for a second haha

[@FreeSpirit47]

Love the actress playing the young Guinan! She's talented & I LOVE her hairstyle. Great entertainment.

[@madquest8]

check out True Blood.

[@diydarkmatter]

she is pretty but looks nothing like young whoopi .

[@hedgeappletn2288]

They should have put whoopie in there with cgi... maybe budget came into play

[@MagnusOZi]

@@hedgeappletn2288 or the fact they probably removed whoopi due to her comments on her show that caused a stir globally that caused her to be stood down!

[@diydarkmatter]

@@hedgeappletn2288 lol come on we all know whoopie needed the work .

[@LGranthamsHeir]

0:10 - 0:24 She might be played by a different actress, but "Guinan' still has the same instinct and sense when she notices someone's not telling her about the whole truth. I could see Whoopi Goldberg saying the same thing to Picard as well (with her raised eyebrows).

[@elchicko1976]

Absolutely. A very good choice. And exzellent acting. I like the hint of "inexperienced" of the younger Guinan. It feels like pre-nexus. That’d also explain why Guinan at Mark Twain‘s era is older then 2024-Guinan. She didn’t enter the nexus yet, that’s why she does not recognize Picard.

[@BrimHawk]

Raised lack of eyebrows.

[@lFAOT]

I think both are happening . I think what's happened is the old and new timelines are fusing together to create a new timeline. But it hasn't fully stabilized because Q and Picard are making changes to it. This currently is the first time they've met , but once the timeline is fixed. 1800 will go back to being the first. Either way both are alternate timelines that existed . Who's to say this current timeline wasn't the original timeline to begin with that was changed by Q who brought it to old picard's attention. From there all of Q's appearances in next generation were to ensure picard would be ready to stabilize/fix the timeline. What we're seeing is the beginning of the time loop and encounter at far point was really the end of that loop.

[@johnwang9914]

The Borg queen and Seven of Nine said this isn't the original timeline.

[@pderham26]

Based on what?

[@iangodfrey4518]

Why can't they simply make a show with out all this time travel bullshit?

[@iangodfrey4518]

@@johnwang9914 In the original time line, the Borg Queen and Seven of Nine are engaged in sizzling hot lesbian sex in a Jacuzzi on the Borg Cube. She's always been the Queens favourite.

[@johnwang9914]

@@iangodfrey4518 I would agree with you on that. Time travel stories are basically all deus ex machina stories especially if you are accepting the many world's theory. The best you can do is avoid the various time paradoxes so that our lack of understanding of time travel remains.

[@awkward-stranger]

This Guinan is beautiful! More, please!

[@oso9809]

Yea major upgrade!

[@worldtraveler930]

I second that motion!!! 🤠👍

[@madquest8]

Watch True Blood.

[@darthbiscuit]

Everyone in Kirtz Trek has whiskey bottle in one hand and a gun in the other

[@basedsoothsayer]

Does that not represent the very core of Star Trek?

[@wackyswacky1374]

@@basedsoothsayer lol no

[@Gunnar001]

Nothing more Star Trek than a dark, nightmarish, vulgar future where our characters have their eyes graphically gouged out, murder for revenge, become depressed alcoholics and fucking decapitate people. _"In the grim darkness of the far future, there is only war."_ - Gene Roddenberry

[@dj1NM3]

@@Gunnar001 All hail Annika Hansen (Seven of Nine), God Emperor of the Confederation.

[@jamesford5504]

This broke canon so hard, when you think about that episode of tng where picard went into the past and already met guinan and Samuel Clemmons.

[@augustjsb]

He didn't go back in the TL

[@kivimik]

Not really. In this timeline, the TNG Picard and crew never went to 19th Century San Francisco. Instead, the "General Picard" timeline would take over. Unless Picard is able to fix things, the TNG event would never happen.

[@JonnySublime]

Well, I saw it happen so it happened

[@DarthWalt]

Intriguing how Picard can’t recognize Q.

[@workinprogress8978]

Maybe her memory is just bad, but I seem to recall Guinan meeting Picard around the time Mark Twain existed and future Guinan remembered that event. This seems like bad continuity.

[@TheSjuris]

Doubt the Admiral Picard from the deranged world went back to the 1800’s

[@michaelbcohen]

also back then past Guinian looked like present day one. This is really bad them making her look younger and different

[@DartLuke]

@@TheSjuris but Guinan can see through timechange, like it was in Yesterday's Enterprise

[@johnlossie467]

It is easily explained. And here it is: NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ANYMORE!!! Star Trek is dead.

[@TheSjuris]

@@DartLuke this wasn’t just a time change.

[@BigBandelero]

The writers have to be aware that Picard and Guinean met before in the 19th century. That’s a detail you can’t simply dispose of. The series is not over yet, there’s clearly something weird going on with Q, so for now, I think the discrepancy is is a deliberate set-up which they will resolve somehow. We’ll see.

[@mrjdgibbs]

In the timeline Guinan is now on Picard never captains the enterprise, never goes back in time with that crew, it never happens, so it never happened.

[@BlazingOwnager]

>The writers have to be aware that Picard and Guinean met before in the 19th century. That’s a detail you can’t simply dispose of. lol. You think anyone involved in Kurtzman Trek knows anything more than pop culture references or cares about continuity? They only know sheer fuckin' hubris.

[@cheerfulgestalt3282]

@@mrjdgibbs This is actually a fair point people are missing. Good catch.

[@mattryan7124]

It’s a causality string that hasn’t happened in the timeline of the Confederation of Earth. Something you see a lot more in Dr Who instead of Star Trek. But it’s colloquially called a bootstrap paradox iirc.

[@scottiecraig9768]

In this timeline that never happened

[@dain6492]

Who would have thought there would have been 2 Qs in this show.

[@pumelo1]

Other Q or his Q because his Q is only ONE

[@dain6492]

@@pumelo1 q from impractical jokers picked up the dog

[@GDIBass]

Yeah HOW IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THIS!?? He's talking to Guinan about how Q messed up the timelines and Q walks in!?!?

[@epe1238]

We went from defending the neutral zone to sneaking across it is okay real fast.

[@hmmmmm6056]

Remember... the change from Federation to Confederation. The Enterprise may not have ever been sent out to explore the universe and has a totally different Picard. So what we saw on TNG does/may not exist in this timeline. Therefore these 2 have not met.

[@kyle8952]

But bus punk remembers Kirk and Spock.

[@jmorris023]

Correct, but you forget one thing......Remember Yesterday's Enterprise? Data hypothesized that Guinan's people have a perception that goes beyond linear time. Maybe she doesn't know his name, but she should feel some kind of familiarity with him.

[@hmmmmm6056]

@@jmorris023 very true...but this is a younger version less experienced...maybe she hasn't really tapped into that Part of her abilities, isn't receptive to them or doesn't really understand them..do we humans really understand deja vu..anyways..we would need to see more of her. Plus she is very upset about how humanity at this time and who knows maybe her species feels emotions so strong its effecting her.

[@edwinrosario3849]

@@kyle8952 Just because the bus punk remembers Kirk and Spock, doesn't mean that Guinan would have to remember Picard. After all, with Time's Arrow, its basically a bootstrap paradox which is a casual loop where a future event causes a past event, which in turn is the cause of the future event. If neither Data nor the Enterprise-D exist then Data's head would not be found in the caves to begin with which would have caused the investigation which sent Picard, Data, Riker, etc to even be transported to the past. Without this transportation to the past, Data's head would not be found in the caves which would make Guinan incapable of remembering Picard because she never knew him from the past. It could also be that due to the El-Alurian's ability to perceive time in a unique fashion, she still could have heard of the name Picard and known of its significance to herself but did not have a face to associate the name with. Regardless, just because one temporal incident occurred and is remembered, doesn't mean another would expressly have to happen if the past of significantly altered.

[@jmorris023]

All fun to talk about. I'm just happy the show has gotten better over last season. It's something I look forward to watching and that makes me happy. I just wished the would have transported the whole police car during that chase scene, that would have been new and different.

[@Mogget01]

So in this timeline he never went back and met her and mark Twain, shouldn’t she at least be aware that something in her past if off as well?

[@DavidLS1]

He goes back to Twain's time later.

[@ericwright6608]

Brian Quinn! Love it

[@johnspence8141]

distracting and pointless, and I'm a IJ fan

[@johnmannino3100]

​​​@@johnspence8141 why is it pointless? Chances are they would have had that moment in the show regardless, with someone else doing it instead. The Jokers are all trying to branch out in their own way, and so Q probably has an agent who came to him saying "hey, I know you're a sci-fi fan, here is a chance for a one scene bit part to be in Star Trek", and the Q of it all creates a mini joke for those who watch Impractical Jokers. I really don't think there is necessarily much crossover in IJ fans and Star Trek fans, especially seeing as IJ is comparably so much less of a deal in a brand sense, as it is still considered a "basic cable" show. Now what would have been distracting would have been if they worked all four Jokers into it (*cough cough* MacGyver).

[@DCinPGH]

Loved this scene

[@ronaldshaw4309]

To think she came all the way to earth from the delta quadrant. I can't believe the level of power her species had before the federation was even a dream in someone's mind.

[@izzmus]

"WE COME FROM FRANCE"

[@hellohogo]

loved this

[@DilophoMS]

Don't like the Guinan here. Whoopi Guinan was never such a crybaby and was never so over-styled.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

I buy the timeline change idea. Gabriel Bell might make this more clear. We know that if Bell did not carry out what he did, Earth simply would not have evolved into interstellar planetary travel in the 24th century - that is, the Confederation would most certainly not have been the path without Bell's heroic actions. We know that Sisko masquerading as Bell was good enough that it still lead to the Federation timeline. So the idea here is that this 21st century is already different enough than the Bell timeline because different players are involved. Bell might still be in this timeline but he is irrelevant because events such as Time's arrow, Kirk/Spock's interactions in the 1930s, whale rescue, and whatever we saw in time travel episodes in the normal Federation timeline did not happen. It's a different enough political and economic structure that is being seen, although not necessarily radically different (sanctuary districts still mentioned) but different enough to cause changes. That is why Guinan did not recall Picard visually but her species time disruption perception likely had something click when Picard blurted out his name at the end.

[@time391]

We actually have refugee camps and homeless settlements within some US cities now, it's actually not too far off to imagine Sanctuary districts like DS9's Past Tense. My guess is that this new timeline reflects something different: No Temporal Cold War means no eugenic wars (those advanced genetic sciences came from a future faction), no Enterprise A/D/E/DS9 crews going back in time means no Roswell/no cholera epidemic (the aliens did not stop eating temporal energy from Romulan ships)/No social reforms/Borg don't know about Earth, and effectively we have a weird warped timeline

[@metalore]

How does Earth survive if Kirk didn't get the whales?

[@time391]

@@metalore The Whale probe could be destroyed by a tri-cobalt device

[@tallrapp]

Wow. She is really good at being a young Guinan. Unbelievable, really.

[@TheZemb1999]

lmao!

[@joeswanson733]

guianan is old regardless of when they go back in time. assuming shes born in the early 1700s at around the same time as benjamin frankllin she was 187 years old during time arrow in this episode she's 318 years old.

[@Dnightartist]

My GOODNESS.....She is BEAUTIFUL 😎

[@venomsymbiote34]

Uncle dale is Brian Quinn from impractical jokers !!

[@jsmythib]

Guinan was ridiculously gorgeous back in the day*. :) I said it, so you dont have to!

[@jameslane2402]

She is beautiful.

[@grayj7441]

Bout a hundred years since Twain. I like both Elorians.

[@darikai219]

I fucking love this actress. She embodies Guinans sass, but makes it her own. I hope to see more of her.

[@hawkstringfellow]

I like the fact that guidian is in multiple timelines, and for all those people complaining TIMEY WIMEY WOBBLY

[@DavidLS1]

_Who_ knows?

[@erosion271]

Don't bring your doctor who fantasy writing over here

[@dominiclastchance9579]

There is enough observable information to reasonably conclude, this is the same past that Picard visited Guinan in 1890. The punk on the bus is proof the past has not changed: he displayed physical discomfort when remembering the Vulcan pinch employed against him by Spock, after being asked by Seven to silence his noise. Guinan hasn't changed. She can sense changes as they relate to people she's met. The problem here is that Picard is not Picard! He's a robot. Therefore this was the first encounter Guinan has had with him. The Picard 2.0 obviously interfered with her clairsentience, but she recalled him when he told her his name; and at the bar in the future on episode 1 of the season she sensed the robot version of him after he entered, because she knew him from 2024!

[@neutrino78x]

I don't subscribe to paramount plus....did they really not have Q snap his fingers and make Picard an organic human again? :(

[@jeffcastle235]

The show runners acknowledged the paradox as just being an Easter egg and we aren't supposed to think about it to much. Regardless this isn't the guinan I know and it's an insult to her legacy.

[@ZulcanPrime]

Picard isn't a mechanical robot. He is a synthetic sentient being.

[@GeoffBlackmore]

There may be similarities, but it's still a different reality. Q moved them from one reality to another. The pre-2024 alignment of most things in each reality doesn't change that they are still two different realities. This means there isn't a contradiction between meeting Guinan twice. They are meetings that happened in different realities.

[@neutrino78x]

@@ZulcanPrime "Picard isn't a mechanical robot. He is a synthetic sentient being." But it's still not Piccard. It's an emulation of Piccard. Piccard is dead, unless Q corrects that.

[@dantran9962]

I do like the little reference how she still keeps a gun at her bar.

[@dlc1119]

What always *ALWAYS* made Star Trek great was and remains the writing. Textbook on recruiting and getting the best from people.

[@texasyank48]

This Guinan and TNG’s Guinan’s personality are totally different.

[@ProfessorK78]

I do remember Spock with facial hair had a different personality too. Different timelines and whatnot.

[@scottiecraig9768]

It's a different timeline.

[@MrAnthimos112]

What was your personality like when you were 300 years younger?

[@frosty848]

@@MrAnthimos112 You do understand we saw her WAY younger then this right?

[@wackyswacky1374]

@@scottiecraig9768 It's not a different timeline. The moment where the timeline is altered hasn't happened yet in this scene. The Guinan in the 19th century acted just like the Guinan from the 24th century, yet here she acts like every other female character on this show. Not only that, but this Guinan has already met Picard once in the past. The show writers completely forgot that happened.

[@Hierax415]

Before you go off in the comments about continuity or plot holes. Take a deep breath and repeat after me...."you care more than the people that wrote this". There it is, I filled any hole you found and solved the continuity problems. The writers don't give a sh.it. That's the answer, it's sad if you loved TNG or anything else from the series but there it is. The writers didn't bother to watch the series or the movies, read the books, watch the Gene interviews etc. etc. they are sure as hell not gonna read your comment and retcon this disaster.

[@JHdamnihatehandles]

Ah but do you assume that all the Star Trek fans that live and comment on KZbin are the whole fandom when you say this show is a disaster? Because you’d be wrong, but whatever helps you sleep at night.

[@frosty848]

@@JHdamnihatehandles Yet they are losing money where it counts...so yes it is a Disaster. but hey whatever makes you sleep at night :)

[@ChrisParayno]

Oh snap!

[@shawnfisher4628]

If you travel back in time before the change in the time line Guinan should remember Picard from her past. There is a root timeline and Picard traveled back on that timeline and met Guinan. If Q made a change to that timeline a branch is formed from the date of the change. If you travel back in time before the branch was created you are now back on the root timeline where Guinan should know who the hell Picard is.

[@dj1NM3]

The future causation doesn't happen because of Q's interference (Creation of the Confederation and blood-thirsty conqueror Picard and his hall of skulls), then no event in the past of Jean-Luc and Guinan meeting, at least until the timeline is fixed *and* *then* Guinan will remember what we saw on-screen in ST:TNG, because then it would have been able to happen.

[@icecreamdf5259]

They’re operating on different rules of time travel. There is no branching. Once Q changed history, the original future no longer existed. That means that Time’s Arrow can’t have happened because there was no future for Picard to arrive from.

[@shawnfisher4628]

@@icecreamdf5259 They certainly are playing by different rules. Another thing to consider is where are the time cops from the temporal cold war era. They should have seen this coming and dispatched someone to fix it.

[@GermanLeftist]

@@asmrart6196 One, that would have been expensive. The Star Trek shows have huge budget but not on the same level as Marvel or what Lucasfilms is willing to pump into its Star Wars shows. Not to mention that Whoopi Goldberg has a daily engagement with The View, she might not be available to appear in multiple episodes as a recurring character.

[@GermanLeftist]

@@shawnfisher4628 These time agents were from a future that doesn't exist anymore because Q essentially deleted it.

[@alanhelton]

Dude I would totally make whoopie with back in the day Whoopie!!!!

[@ryanf4106]

aaaaannnndddd there is the social commentary.

[@bradorem121]

Is that Q from impractical jokers lmfao oh my god haha thats funny

[@carlotta4th]

This actress does a good job imitating woopie goldberg mannerisms.

[@robertmoore6149]

No wonder the Borg were so interested in assimilating her species

[@pderham26]

We have no indication their assimilation was special.

[@robertmoore6149]

@@pderham26 Well given their naturally long lifespan and apparently unique connection to the timeline, it is obvious they would be sought after for their "biological distinctiveness".

[@mattboutilier4450]

its really funny that she doesnt remmber him from back in the 18-19 hunded timeline back in next gen

[@staxmantim]

I had to jump to Google to find out who this actress is. This force is Ito Aghayere!

[@svarupa]

OH. MY. GOD. 😭

[@radow869]

A watcher in deed

[@YD-uq5fi]

Everyone who says that the change in the timeline means that Guinan never met Picard in Time's Arrow don't know nearly as much about Star Trek as they think. The boombox punk rocker who appeared again clearly DID encounter Spock in 1986. Otherwise, he could not be so submissive about turning down his music now. Hence, the original timeline still holds, and the ST : Picard writers, to no one's surprise, know nothing about Star Trek and outright hate the long-time fans.

[@YD-uq5fi]

@Tin Watchman Your points are exceptionally weak. The very existence of the guy means it is the same timeline which means Guinan should recognize Picard.

[@keelanhill2533]

1:55 when she talks about the greed of us human species of 2024. Spot on Truth.

[@Nighthawk-8050]

WOW 😯

[@cruz5888]

I’m in love w/ young Guinan

[@johnrettig1880]

This Madam Guinan is a lot better looking . And SSSSSOOOOOOO Cute . 🖖

[@aspieboy74]

I remember Guinan being older in the 19th century weekend Picard first met her.

[@plyric]

Upvote this comment x10.

[@Russkivol]

If Q changed time, *this* is Picard & Guinan's first meeting. The event in the 19th Century *never* *happened*.

[@plyric]

@@Russkivol Even if this is Picard & Guinan's meeting for the first time in this broken timeline, it does NOT change the fact that she is visibly OLDER in the 19th century than in the 21st century. Quoting @Murray_C in the comments: other than Guinan explaining in Picard S02E01 that El-Aurian's can change how they look when they age, but I believe she said they can slow their age when going FORWARD.

[@matthewl.459]

She was but the fanboi crowd will say "she can make you see what she wants" blah.....

[@aspieboy74]

@@Russkivol Q changed time after Guinan and Picard met, the change occurred in 2024, not the 19th century. Their past already happened. If Q had wiped Picard's memory, how the fuck would he even know about guinan's ability to help him or locate her?

[@jodytollefson7187]

Where are you from is the wrong question when are you from is the right question.

[@crisbajcrisbaj468]

now THAT was a totally BRILLIANT bit of Star Trek!!!

[@BlazingOwnager]

The part where Guinen doesn't remember the 18th century or the part where she acts nothing at all like Guinen?

[@ProfessorK78]

@@BlazingOwnager The part where this isn't the same Guinan because of different timelines.

[@MrAnthimos112]

​@@BlazingOwnager The part where the writers tell trek nerds to sit down, fucking relax, appreciate the actors and watch the story we are telling you unfold. You know instead of...what's that thing all trek nerds do...oh yeah... bitching over plot inconsistencies from one episode 30 years ago. Fuck times arrow, both one and two. Shitty episodes with a shitty premise. I am 44 years old and have seen every single episode of every single trek series ever made and I can tell you that of all the places to plant your "That's not Canon!" flag, Time's Arrow isn't worth it. Worst two parter TNG ever did and worst season ender since "Shades of Gray". Dry your tears and get over it.

[@GooglyEyedJoe]

Is that sarcasm or you actually believe it?

[@BlazingOwnager]

@@ProfessorK78 A different timeline because of a change in 2024. Which has nothing whatsoever to do with her appearance here, completely regardless if the Enterprise-D ever contacted her.

[@morefiction3264]

[@LGranthamsHeir]

2:05 - 2:45 "Young Guinan" has lots of wisdom about the contemporary world situation (climate change, "fake news," uber-polarization, etc). If I were Picard I would have told her to run for President in 2024

[@MMuraseofSandvich]

Running for office with a viable party would either require her to sacrifice her morals in small ways or become a believable liar. She knows this, and she knows she couldn't live with herself if she did.

[@RichardTLDR]

And even knowing she has yet to meet Picard, she tried to join up with Tolian Soran and enter the Nexus...

[@lewstone5430]

Dayum! Love the black lipstick on this lady!

[@alanespinoza4870]

Loved this episode. S 2 of Picard is really stepping it up in every way. Now someone please save ST Discovery. Please.

[@brandonangstman]

4 seasons is already too late.

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

@@brandonangstman People said that about TNG too. Best of Both Worlds still saved it.

[@brandonangstman]

@@michaelgreenwood3413 perhaps but even before that TNG hadn't been as shallow pessimistic plot thin as STD. By for best of both worlds we'd seen the crew face real challenges and moral dilemmas that had caused in depth character growth, and by that time we had spent enough time with the crew of the Enterprise-D to have learned about them and grown attached to them as people, can you say the same about the crew of discovery 4 seasons in?

[@jack1701e]

All the comments saying that this isn't right and Guinan should remember Picard from Times Arrow are missing one simple thing; in this alternate timeline that episode never happened. Things are different in this darker timeline so them not meeting until now is fine. Really i swear people are grasping at anything to show that their favourite show has been murdered when really you just have to calm down and think.

[@TheMaibus]

Except that Picard says a line back to her and it has an effect? Implying that in this timeline it still happened? I swear, people need to stop coming out to bat for show runners that hate fans for some reason.

[@JHdamnihatehandles]

@@TheMaibus And yet in yesterdays enterprise in the alt timeline she knew Tasha Yar at the same time didn’t and knew she had died in the original timeline even though she wasn’t there when Tasha died but still knew it happened. maybe it’s you haters that need to stop coming out and attacking everything and wait until a storyline is finished before jumping on the hate wagon. Or better yet move on and accept the Star Trek of the late 80s and the 90s isn’t coming back just like the TOS fans who hated on TNG had to accept that their Trek was long gone.

[@zadokprime4831]

Or calm down and drink.... they've got the time sickness. Lol

[@edwinrosario3849]

@@JHdamnihatehandles You have a good point with Yesterday's Enterprise but when coming to that, it was more of a feeling that she shouldn't be there and it didn't affect Guinan's personal timeline in such a way as the fundamental meeting between her and Picard in the 19th century. In the first instance, its more of a passive observer effect, you know what is supposed to be there and can identify that needs to be removed in order to set things right. Though with Yesterday's Enterprise, Guinan could have easily just said nothing about Tasha Yar and Sela would have never been born. The second instance is a far more direct alternation of her own personal history, essentially forcing Guinan to turn left instead of right. Especially since her meeting with Picard is a bootstrap paradox which adds another layer of confusion to the mix. Yet because Picard never commanded the Enterprise-D in the Confederation timeline and we have no idea if Data even existed in that timeline either, his head would not be found which would prompt the investigation that sent them into the past in the first place. What is being shown, though rather clumsily, is time being in a state of flux where the events of the future affect the past and the past causes the future to occur. In essence, because of what Q did in the past affected both the further past ie the events of Time's Arrow and the far future in 2401. This is why messing with time is a bloody stupid idea!

[@edwinrosario3849]

@@TheMaibus It was basically throwing off temporal equilibrium similar to temporal aphasia which is directly influencing her present with her own future and given that the El-Alurians are now confirmed to have a unique way of perceiving time. This would basically cause feedback as the two clash which made her throw up in such a way hence the time sickness. In fiction, there has always been the idea that a person should never go back to a point where they exist because they could cause time to rip itself apart, the two could merge, but more important, could create a dangerous paradox. By doing that, Picard made a small scale one and Guinan got the consequences from it.

[@xaracen7207]

so they retconned the original time travel first meeting.

[@Nu1SaNc8]

RIP TREK

[@dgd947a15fl]

Again and again, please arrest whoever writes the dialogue for this show.

[@xxlCortez]

She comes across as some hoodie girl, there's nothing Guinan-like in her.

[@Dorkalicious]

Guinan don't you remember that time me and my busy came to the 1800 and we practiced plays and my Frenchman friend blew up... I think it was called...... Times arrow

[@xxxCrackerJack501xxx]

Is there a reason she looks so young when it's established she looked like 40-something Whoopi Goldberg in the 1800's? As I understand it the story is that a single change was made in the timeline on Earth in 2024 how could that make her look younger than she did in the 1800s, also I really don't know why they felt the need to change 2024 so much, the Sanctuary Districts of all the homeless people and the Bell riots would have still worked perfectly for what they're trying to comment on while still maintaining the old continuity

[@TheSLUser]

They can change the way they look, in this day its better to be a young bar owner than a 40 year old ..... old whoopi says as much to picard

[@matthewl.459]

Anything can happen with writers that don't care. Why not bring baby Yoda in and double the audiance. Maybe Dr Who will make a cameo while we're at it.

[@xxxCrackerJack501xxx]

@@TheSLUser I thought she says they age when they choose to not that they can get younger on command/change their appearance. Even if she can completely control her age though it's still dumb/weird because now the question is why did she appear to be late-40's Whoopi Goldberg in the 1800s, stayed that way for an unknown amount of time before appearing in this younger form around 2024, _then_ turn *BACK* into late-40s Whoopi Goldberg by the time she was in the Nexus/rescued by the Enterprise-B and then presumably stay like that for several hundred years and all her time on the Enterprise-D before deciding people were alleged uncomfortable with her and choosing to be 70 something years old?

[@xxxCrackerJack501xxx]

@@matthewl.459 Anything and everything for the wrong reasons when bad writers are at the helm, I don't know why they wouldn't just hire Ronald D. Moore or someone like that to write these new Star Trek shows I don't imagine he's drastically more expensive than whatever hack they already have on hand

[@xxxCrackerJack501xxx]

@Tin Watchman tbh considering that is a term in real life I probably accidentally overlooked it if it was mentioned, I'll full well admit that

[@toxichammertoe8696]

Thats the dog from John Wick

[@singhjet123]

Surprised to see a joker in there🤣🤣🤣

[@Beerbaby]

It's kind of funny that she is crying and emoting this sentiment to multi-millionaire Patrick Stewart on a show produced by multi-millionaire Alex Kurtzman from a production company that also has multi-millionaires on staff and is owned by Paramount which is run by Brian Roberts whose net worth is 1.3 billion dollars.

[@Finians_Mancave]

They are multi-millionaire STORYTELLERS, so what else would you have them do? They are trying to save the world in the way they know how - inform the world through storytelling. Or are you suggesting that as millionaires, they can't see the world around them crumbling? That they can't recognize that it won't be around for their children and grandchildren?

[@r0bw00d]

@@Finians_Mancave BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Right, the preachy propagandists are trying to save the world!

[@Finians_Mancave]

@@r0bw00d Glad you agree!

[@Beerbaby]

@@Finians_Mancave the sentiment, written by a highly paid writer and a multi-millionaire who is given money to pretend really hard, is that a very small amount of people that have all the resources could fix things if they wanted to. They are literally the people who are refusing to do exactly what they're complaining about in their television show. They obviously don't practice what they preach. And nobody's saving the world by getting you to subscribe to Paramount Plus.

[@Finians_Mancave]

@@Beerbaby And my point is, it's easy to blast anyone for being rich -- but what exactly are filmmakers supposed to do to change the world? They reach millions of people with film, so isn't that the most effective thing they can do? How do you define "practicing what you preach"? Most rich people give quite generously to charitable causes, so what more would you have them do? You clearly have an opinion, so let's hear it...

[@mjake1966]

Didn't Guinan meet Picard way before this in San Francisco? The timeline break happened 2024 so she would have already meet him once.

[@technicholy1299]

That hasn't happened in this time line yet. Picard has gone back in the same timeline where his future self goes back in Time's Arrow. As weird as it sounds, Guinan shouldn't know Picard yet because he hasn't gone back in time yet to establish their friendship. That's in Picard's past, not this Guinan's past. The break has occurred on the "prime" timeline, as it were.

[@BigEddsLore]

Yep again theye4 ignoring the previous epeisode

[@steeltimberwolf]

Yes but sadly Nu Trek doesn't care about continuity. They want to tell their stories regardless of the ones that came before.

[@ericlanglois9194]

Except that the future didn't happen so Picard never went back to the 19th century to meet Guinan in San Francisco.

[@NicholasSmithNicholasSmith]

No. Did not happen because Picard in this timeline is a war man not a peace man.

[@cleekmaker00]

02:00 She does have a point; all it seems we want to do is kill each other over petty squabbles about territory, beliefs, ideology, appearances...

[@BlazingOwnager]

Guinen stuck with humanity for like 200 years. Then she saw Tiktok and was like "OK, this species is a write-off."

[@warlockofbluecheesesmither2517]

Takes hit of PCP pipe, yeah dude I totally agree with u man snorts line of creatine and cocaine we humans r fucked yeah my man

[@zorokicksass60]

It’s ok. As soon as aliens finds us, we’ll be fine. Either they help up become better and explore the galaxy or they annihilate us

[@landonletterman831]

I've been a firm believer in Mr. Rogers; When times are tough, and they *will* get tough from time to time, and you may feel hopeless from any given situation. When that happens you need to take a step back, stop looking at the problem, and start looking for the people who are helping, because they are always there.....

[@syrhassan116]

But as an Off-Worlder, she would have been able to leave at any point.... instead she stays around to "suffer the racism"?... To quote; "They traded hoods for business suits"... You have GOT to be kidding me... IF it were that bad, would she even BE in the show?

[@ericamcrae1610]

is she trying to hide or something...? i know if someone came up to me and was like "hi my name is Guinan" I'd be like "bish you an alien?" XD

[@Leo_HuangAB]

1:24 It's Q from Impractical Jokers!

[@jeebuschristos8423]

Beginning to think this show might be one of their long con punishments... guess Q lost an episode and now they are trying to convince him that he was cast on a Star Trek show?

[@Leo_HuangAB]

@Rocky Hugh That would've been awesome

[@Leo_HuangAB]

@@jeebuschristos8423 That's a light punishment

[@benshearer1710]

Sooo one of the boys from impractical jokers is acting in star trek interesting

[@HarPlayer]

Guinan drinks 🍸Never saw that in TNG !!!!!!😀😀😀😀😀😀😀😀

[@robertromero9488]

Its 300 years ago. You can't expect people to remain the same

[@izzmus]

@@robertromero9488 Plus, in TNG, she is literally a bartender...

[@matthewl.459]

@@izzmus in Picard she owns a bar... it's supposed to be Guinan. This character isn't her. So the fact that she's delt with bad people on Earth has made her bitter and jaded but the Borg destroying her civilization didn't....mkay.

[@zikemdg]

Listen to what she said about the planet.

[@vismortis]

He could tell her this is Qs doing she knows Q even then... Though pry leave out the Borg Queen since she would know her too

[@matthewl.459]

No no.... the writers made it so her species never met Q. Come on..... lol

[@arm514ve5]

yup Star Trek Picard is in a different time line and universe completely Guinan and Picard meat all the way back in the 19th century, so she should have recognized him. well before the timeline was messed up by Q.

[@michaelgreenwood3413]

Time's Arrow never happened, because it's dependant ON that future, dude. So, in fact, this is still primary canon. Deal with it. And rewatch all of the Time Travel ST eps while you're at it so you can actually get some grasp of how Temporal Mechanics works. Also, look up "Grandfather Paradox."

[@FreeSpirit47]

When I read comments about the heavy criticism of this series, I keep in mind that an opinion is like a belly button. Everyone has one, the only person it makes a dent in is the one who has it. For better or the other. 😊

[@salimrehman2028]

Guiain should know this is Picard. I remember long ago Picard travelled back in time where Data head was lost in the past on Earth. Where Picard first met Guiain and had that talk. Their first meeting I think was 19 century.

[@salimrehman2028]

When will there be released Picard in which country?

[@coyi3884]

Different timeline.

[@salimrehman2028]

Tim hi, this is the first meeting on this video link. Where they met in 19 century kzbin.info/www/bejne/n4C3fJ-ZfLyBbrM Before Q changed the timeline a century late in the 21st century. Say 2024. Guiain should know that is Picard by face wise even if a different actor plays her role.

[@johnwang9914]

The casting isn't bad but I think the fans were hoping for digital deaging. Indeed given the long lifespan of Guinan's race, I think the fans were hoping for digital deaging of Guinan completely. I guess CGI costs haven't dropped enough yet.

[@sleepinggorilla]

It's bizarre because a lot of TNG fans would be familiar with how Whoopi looked when she was younger. It was a big deal when she joined Star Trek because she had just won an Oscar and had done Ghost, and Sister Act she was one of the biggest stars in Hollywood.

[@evanbelisle8464]

@@sleepinggorillayeah, people forget she owned the 90s.

[@oldtwinsna8347]

The sequence is too long for digital adjustment to not reveal its ugly limitations. That kind of stuff is only for very short, limited scope, scenes. What went on here could never be done at this point in time with the tech available without it just looking like a goofy cartoon.

[@johnwang9914]

@@oldtwinsna8347 Well, I only said that the fans wanted to see the characters as they remembered them not whether or not CGI de-aging technology has advanced enough, though they did do some very long deaged shots of Arnold in the Terminator series. CGI may still have a problem with the uncanny valley but you have to admit it has improved a lot in the last few decades and they haven't been using the short clips mixed with live actions and models used in Spiderman II to hide the CGI as often anymore.

[@davidsteinbach33]

Honestly they should've just kept Whoopie in this alternate past. Time's Arrow & Generations was still the same actress. I enjoyed Ito's acting tho. I get why this Guinan is not the same one from Time's Arrow in 1800. Q really screwed the timeline lol. I wished they explored more of the confederation universe too. I love mirror type episodes LOL.

[@richarda29]

You may yet get your chance for that. Seasons 2 & 3 were shot simultaneously. This story arc can span multiple seasons the way the Dominion War did for Star Trek: Deep Space Nine. And the Confederation strikes me as too tough to go quietly. That which can be undone by temporal agents can also be redone by temporal agents.

[@davidsteinbach33]

@@richarda29 I hope they do that would be awesome. I'm going to be blunt if there not going to give us star trekish episodes ill take these mirror episodes lol.

[@808bigisland]

The eternal witches in ST...

[@LGranthamsHeir]

3:05 - 3:25 A "Yesterday's Enterprise" callback here....

[@DeathReviews]

Uh - no. We've all seen pictures of young Whoopi Goldberg, and that AIN'T her.

[@daviddamascus9657]

Young Ginen is a bowl full of HOT!!!😍

[@TokyoTraveller]

She just puked and the first thing she did was drink again. Guinan is my kind of girl!

[@steeltimberwolf]

This scene proves to me that Picard is in another timeline as they are using the same premise about time travel that they used in the new Star Trek movies that Kurtzman. That a change in events in the past have a rippling effect not only towards the future but towards the past changing the whole timeline. This isn't the case in the prime Star Trek timeline as time travel can only change the future and create a alternate timeline that doesn't affect the past as the past has happened up to that point.

[@bobydigital2450]

Or... Bad writing

[@CafeMerle]

@@bobydigital2450 The writing is spot on. They travelled back from an altered timeline to a previous point in that altered timeline. Picard and Guinan have never met because he never commanded The Enterprise in this timeline and the events of Time's Arrow never took place. I take your last point, but Q is involved and we still don't know the extent of his involvment or his motivation.

[@ApolloXL5]

All star trek that came out after 2017 takes place in another altnerate timeline. ENT, TOS, TNG, DS9 & VOY all take place in the classic timeline. Then we have the Kelvin timeline and we also have the Prime timeline (Disco, Picard, LD, Prodigy and SNW).

[@wackyswacky1374]

@@CafeMerle The timeline hasn't been altered yet smoothbrain. It's not altered for another 3 days. This is still the same timeline that TNG exists in. The same timeline where Picard has already met Guinan in the 19th century. The whole point of the plotline for this show is to stop the change FROM happening. So yes, it is a continuity error. Stop trying to justify lazy writing.

[@Veridiano02]

@@wackyswacky1374 The change affected the future, and so, the past aswell. The Picard that traveled to 1890 wasn't there, he was busy erradicating people left and right. So he didn't time travel. And He and Guinan never met.

[@Aurora07]

"Who are you" well you should know Guinan you have met before 🤦‍♂️

[@02ujtb00626]

Does this timeline delete him meeting Guinan in the 1800's?

[@labratamber]

Didnt they meet in the 1800's along with mark twain?

[@billydelacey]

"The summoning" was such a stupid idea.

[@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164]

That is some powerful commentary about this Earth civilization.

[@rockmanx6857]

I want the dog!!!!!!!!!!!

[@TheRAYviewYT]

At 2:15 begins the reality of our world …..