CARD RE-EVALUATIONS - THE PLAY TO WIN PODCAST

This week, Dylan and Cam re-evaluate cards they talked about during Play to Win set reviews
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[@CER160th]

Strixhaven had culling ritual, storm-kiln artist, professor onyx, witherbloom apprentice. I would argue those see play and have been pretty impactful on the format. Definitely gave some love to B/G

[@Amascut]

And Wandering Archaic!

[@AlphaCitizen]

I actually run Fracture in some decks as well

[@jemm113]

Between the archive cards and the heavenly gifts given to Krark the Thumbless, Strixhaven is the best sleeper set to come out!

[@StackedEDH]

LOVE this idea. Magic players are historically (on average) not great at evaluating cards, so being honest about that-and also seeing what y'all were prescient about!-is just really fun.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Thanks Ken!! This one was fun

[@cruces1713]

This for sure. I remember back when Jace the Mind Sculptor was being disregarded when it first came out and then revolutionized how Planeswalkers were printed

[@aqw773]

Tcg players are historically bad at evaluating cards, 90% of the most overpowered cards in the history of hearthstone were considered weak in spoiler season

[@StackedEDH]

@@aqw773 oh this is great to know. thank you!

[@marianorivera3272]

@@aqw773 people see broken combos that are virtually impossible to assemble in a real game over reliable cards that are good in mosts situations. Those reliable cards are hard to identify because we are imagining them in the current meta game and it’s hard to predict how a meta will settle after a new influx of cards in the pool. When I see LSV or Brian Weisman play, they always seem to be playing fair decks that have virtually no win condition but they always seem to win because they are masters at creating and piling on value. Picking solid cards with reliable interaction is better than going all in on dubious strategies (most of the time, at least in my experience).

[@veganwiener8047]

I think the argument for Arcane Denial stems from how the net difference of cards is smaller than a normal counterspell. With a normal counterspell, you and the opponent whose spell was countered both go down 1 card, leaving the other two players up a card. With Arcane Denial, only one player is up a card. Personally, I think the card is playable, but there are enough counterspells that are better than it that you'll pretty much never slot it in a cEDH deck.

[@danielschmidt7143]

If you are running notion thief or narset arcane denial is absolutely nutty. Or even alms collector (lol). Imagine a world where you have notion thief out and play denial; counter target spell and on next upkeep draw 3

[@trveheimer6360]

@@danielschmidt7143 ya i want to have narset in a edh deck but she is always underperforming, shenanigans like that are over with hullbreacher banned. it just isnt good and never consistently happens.

[@noesunyoutuber7680]

​@@trveheimer6360 Narset or Notion Thief + Wheel doesn't seem that bad. Sure, it's not as easy as flashing in Hullbreacher into someone else's wheel, but it hardly seems unplayable unless you're deep into CEDH - you get Narset + Wheel off in the same turn early on and your opponents probably just lose if they can't stop you.

[@dvdpekard]

I cast a Temporal Mastery for Miracle at an opp's upkeep thanks to an Arcane Denial's draw trigger for me. It won me the game cuz I skipped ahead 2 players' turns.

[@Shiftcor]

I specifically had to look to find this comment because i knew someone would have posted it. Ty for your service. this is something so many people in commander don't understand and i assume it stems form people not getting the multi player aspect.

[@jmarksthespot]

Notion thief’s flash is both relative and relevant, well said Cam

[@swat6591]

Dylan: "We didn't get anything that wrong right?" Cam: "Well..."

[@aurafighter9579]

I can’t explain the excitement I had over someone talking about beast wars in a mtg podcast 😂

[@deadNdivine12]

My favourite moment from the video haha. Silverbolt was my favourite.

[@JustRightPinedo]

Yeah I think those of us who are truly 90s kids grew up more with beast wars than transformers

[@MINEvsWILD1]

I freaking love this podcast! As a newer CEDH player I’ve been binging these episodes and they’re incredibly helpful!

[@bulbasaurappreciator]

I hope you guys do this again in a couple years so we can see what other cards you inevitably miss on. Card evaluation is a really difficult mental exercise, and taking a look back only helps you going forward.

[@AnoraksMuseum-eu9ph]

I would like to point out that at two different points in magic history a card came out that mentioned a new card type in its reminder text and no one thought about it as a competitive card during spoiler season and then it saw crazy amounts of play in old and powerful formats.

[@PUNCH1NGBAG]

Seeing you guys make a combo tierlist, or other tierlist videos would actually be really fun tbh.

[@VanHornJosh]

Cameron & Dylan! I love how your confidence on cedh meta analytics has grown over the the past year. It's a great look guys

[@jacob510]

I think the first way to tell when something is going to be busted in cEDH is if it doesn't look like anything else. Dockside Extortionist and Underworld breach are the first 2 that come to mind. We don't really have much to compare them to before their release. After that, I'd say it's "does this card break or benefit heavily from something from old magic?" Thoracle made consultation and Tainted pact staples, for example.

[@MrPikawika4444]

Well, underworld breach you can compare to yawg's will right away.

[@jacob510]

@MrPikawika4444 maybe? At what point does power creep just become making something so vastly stronger there's not much left to compare? They both allow play from the graveyard, muldrotha does too but I wouldn't compare her to Breach. But I can see where you're coming from.

[@Highwang]

Good to know the crew cares about the important things like mood lighting.

[@mariambarnes4023]

Ok well now we have to get a cEDH combo tier list episode

[@toctheyounger]

Seconded

[@jareddease1082]

Thanks for uploading! Loved the video and discussion.

[@TripsAhoy]

Def very cool going back and talking about cards like this. 👍🏿

[@grantmcgregor2441]

Strixhaven there was Storm-Kiln Artist and that cycle.

[@thelordethan3682]

Witherbloom apprentice/prof onyx too

[@grantmcgregor2441]

Also Oghma sees more play but Minsc and boo is the actual best card in CL2. Or at least joined for first

[@trveheimer6360]

displacer kitten its the most adorable creature ever and also the amount of applications are so huge its hard to not accidentally break the game with this card. think about all the commanders that benefit from it, tivit and kess come to mind. or ofc tevesh.

[@bensteinhauser784]

Great video and I would love to see a cEDH combo tier list from you guys! Also, I think it's relevant to point out that Cut Down hits every stax creature in the cEDH DDB Winota deck aside from Ranger Captain. Lastly, what resources are you using to find out about and track cEDH tournaments?

[@BigDirtyWon]

That was a fun one fellas! Keep it up 👍

[@VeilofDeathMTG]

Great Podcast Guys...keep up the good work

[@wiredwilderness3189]

I love the dog thats just vibing behind cam

[@lukeschaming532]

I also watched beast wars every day before school. I was looking back at the info about the show, it won a daytime emmy for achievement in animation. You would not think it going back and watching.

[@Faroonite]

40:10 I” looked at it in the lense of a cEDH player and it’s not so great in that way” I think we need another retrospective podcast for this moment alone

[@twensg]

Wash Away can counter people casting their commanders from their command zone for 1 :) Think about that!

[@MrPhantomPC]

10:10 so right; Tasha’s was my final attempt at a wincon in Kalamax when it got spoiled before I finally gave up and took apart my Dino bro. RIP fling machine.

[@deadNdivine12]

Ahh yeah beast wars! Beast Machines was an alright end for that. And great video fellas always good to see people reflect and grow through through years.

[@thorsguardofficial]

One argument haha I do use shadow-rite priest in my krikk shadowstorm deck. It’s another glass cannon cedh build using Shadowborn apostles razelketh and cards like final parting to storm into a aetherflux reservoir. The priest has came in clutch more than once!

[@JustRightPinedo]

Tasha’s laughter is an interesting card to evaluate; on the nose it seems cool that it has a decent chance of blowing out at least one persons win cons by exiling key pieces…but then you’re spending 3 mana when that slot could just be another tutor for you own combo/protection? I could see it maybe viable in a Krark-Saka list as copying it could be pretty cute.

[@fosterdawson7339]

I do like Plaza of heroes as well in Pako/Haldan. being able to give him hexproof/indestructible is really nice sometimes Edit: and Brotherhoods End too XD

[@jonlamoreaux1889]

Smugglers share triggers off of opponents who drew 2 or more cards in a turn, and off of multiple land drops. It's actually pretty neat in casual, especially with howling mine effects

[@JustRightPinedo]

Looked for this comment before making my own. Yeah I think they conflated for Mangara “cast two” vs draw 2. I live it for casual as it kinda scales against what opponents are doing. They’re doing nothing? Cool you have no problems. They’re running wild drawing/fetching/ramping, ok we are keeping pace with them now passively

[@heirkaiba]

As a person who plays Winota as my CEDH Commander; I was also wrong how good this card is LOL. When it snowballs, shessssssssshhhhhhhhh. LetMeCook.

[@donovanisapterodactyl9786]

as a tymna jeska player turn one or two sie of insanity is always a good time for something to reanimate i also run the whitegorger loop in mine though so already running a bunch of graveyard shenanigans

[@thordagreat]

I was watching a cedh game where someone had their archivist of oghma out and tried to win via thoracle consulation. In response, a player cast worldly tutor after the consultation resolved

[@AlphaCitizen]

My opponents tried that against me Sunday night, forcing me to draw on my Blue Farm Thoracle ETB. I had to counter their Enlightened Tutor and Path my Esper Sentinel (just in case anyone else got ideas) to avoid drawing both of my remaining cards after a Doomsday. Ending up drawing one off the Esper trigger, but still had one card left after the stack resolved. Was a tough win to fight thru - especially when they use your own cards against you

[@manuelquinones2235]

This video aged very well (sarcasm). Dylan said that he didn't think Atraxa would see cEDH play as a commander....said the guy that is currently playing it. I love Atraxa in cEDH as my commander. Thank you, Dylan, for the list!!! 40:46

[@endlessrain6992]

The editing in this is legitimately great, how are you getting these out so fast??

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

I have no life! That’s how!

[@faperito2389]

Hahaha, oh, the editor's life.

[@morganmchenry325]

Sardian avenger is in my Najeela tempo list, really good warrior to get going to after putting Najeela on the field 😊

[@batboibob4910]

Plaza of Heroes is so underrated. If you can consistently have your commander on the board, it’s a command tower with protection

[@johngoodmans_thanksgiving_7867]

Not sure if you guys talked about it in the set review, but Benevolent Hermit has also seen a lot of play. :)

[@davidgoulding1386]

Beast wars!!!! That was an amazing show as a kid

[@AndreasRChaos]

we needed Tyler in for this also :P

[@koreyg8552]

Strixhaven had alot of cards . Wandering archaic, solve the equation, CULLING RITUAL, archmage emritus,resculpt, storm kiln artist, witherbloom apprentice, codie. The reason people like arcane denial is because it’s like an offer you can’t refuse. It’s a hard counter that can save you from losing the game and they get cards that may lead to nothing same way you give opponents two treasures that may lead to nothing

[@salchi-papa]

This comment right here!

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

CULLING RITUAL! Yeah that one’s great

[@JustRightPinedo]

Tbh I think battles are gonna phase planeswalkers out. They play similarly it just changes who is attacking them. I think they’ll be great for casual bc you can politic the table into helpin you attack the battle or give it to the player with no blockers etc

[@joskajiri]

11:31 so adhd vibe oh my god, loved it so much :dd

[@renevargas4496]

Arcane is played in Taigam since in my thinking my oponents counters are mine since they can't use it on me and I can use it on my own spell to draw 3 since it doesn't work but resolves with Taigam

[@alexandermalarkey3773]

Slicer is really good. I regularly clean pods with it.

[@Lilfluffygoofball87]

Certified play to win fan here, I like you video good 👍, thank you XOXO Ben

[@damo9961]

I was always the same on Arcane Denial, until a seasoned pro explained to me "When you counter a spell in Cedh, you go down a card and one player goes down a spell, putting 2 players ahead." Arcane Denial replaces itself - so you only go down mana, the player casting the countered spell goes down mana and in the end it only puts one player ahead. If you just countered their win attempt, then they are behind anyway, just for having their win attempt foiled. So it is actually good, and possibly even better than Delay. If you're going for your win attempt when you untap you have an extra card and the player with 2 extra cards is probably tapped out.

[@Arcdemon44]

I use arcane denial in my cheerio storm deck, easy way to draw 3 cards off a zero drop.

[@edhdeckbuilding]

glad to see someone agrees with me on arcane denial.

[@josemaravilla6955]

I like the idea of a tier list of win combos in cedh.

[@lucasc9142]

Lurrus is a super fun commander. I’d love to see someone kick some booty with him on the channel

[@mitchellbos7803]

Hey Dylan where’d you get that shirt from it’s sick also love the content guys

[@christopherpho9424]

Off the top of my head. Culling Ritual, Storm Kiln Artist, and Archmage Emeritus was probably the big 3 from Strixhaven. Nothing game warping like Ikoria.

[@magusofthebargain]

2-mana counters are only good in a deck that is built around holding up mana. Your deck has to be able to win on the stack or have some exceptional ramp in order to be able to constantly hold up UU turn after turn for that sweet sweet counterspell.

[@anthonybuck4864]

I kinda wanna try the new Atraxa in a Tymna Thrasios reanimator deck

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

I built a $150 Kinnan “cedh” deck to try to corrupt a friend into cedh. The deck was sorta “win-conless” but the main finisher was Drown in dreams. It was used post infinite mana to draw your own deck while decking an opponent then regrowing it one time would allow the list to deck the other two players. I actually think the card is better than most people think it is. I mean, should a ton of budgetless decks play it? Nah, but I think prob some should and lots prob could play it. It was pretty good in my original Malcolm Kediss cedh deck but sorta got power crept out of the deck. I think Drown in dreams is a prime example of a 110th card. It’s very close to good enough imho. High power and budget players should def look to the card as a real option

[@micahlaremore8224]

Great video

[@jakecallen9164]

Dylan saying at least WGD makes the list even if its at the bottom reminds me of Lynch saying "At least when you get dunked on you make it on the poster" 😂😂😂

[@JustRightPinedo]

Hmm yeah I’m brewing Tameshi and was flirting with drown in dreams to have another outlet for big/infinite mana, but I think the fact that it doesn’t just kill the table is tough…the tech is probably target yourself to draw half your deck then kill one opponent who seems to have no counter-magic? Would love a deeper discussion on such cards and why they’ve fallen out of favor.

[@JustRightPinedo]

Would be interested in your take on the card Fascination. XBB each player draws X or mills X...this is a card that ostensibly just wins the game for you [on infinite mana] when you pass turn like breach freeze lines minus thoracle

[@ulyssessanchez2328]

Hmmmm Making a tier list of Combos? WorldGorger being bottom makes sense but that sounds like an awesome video

[@yoricktop8649]

So, the reason why arcane denial is a fan favourite is because it replaces itself while your opponent will be up 1 card on you. But a regular old counterspell you put yourself down 1 card compared to the other 2 opponents so it is a choice between being down a card vs 2 people or being down a card vs 1 person However, 2 mana counterspells in cEDH that arent mana drain are a hard sell for me

[@YummmHi]

I need to know where Dylan got that shirt

[@joskajiri]

that tshirt Dylen wears looks so comfy and cool at the same time, wanna boy it af

[@ibrahimbaig3489]

Beast wars from the 90s has a connection with the tranformers series of the 80s. The beast wars transformers discovered the transformers from the 80s in stasis.

[@kelm102]

You have to be around my age Dylan, because I thought that Beast Wars was the *shit* when I was a kid. We taped it every time it was on.

[@OhSarcasticOne]

With white, I vaguely remember someone saying instead of white being "your opponents can't do X" it's becoming "if your opponent does X, draw a card"

[@DoubleAMC0]

Beast wars is on tubi. Been watching through it again.

[@robertkimmel8649]

HELL YEAH! Dylan with the Beast Wars love

[@Lumautis]

beast wars. loved it as a kid. Aged Terribly

[@timtauber5557]

I still like arcane denial because you can counter your own spell

[@eggsaviator1224]

I hope battles take the role of game warping world enchantments, miss those sm

[@kamilwhaley-kalaora4839]

I think culling ritual was probably the best card from strixhaven (for Cedh at least)

[@ingolf82]

I'm not a cEDH player, so I really like Abdel Adrian, both the Orzhov version and the Azorious version look really fun. the orzhov version drains people to death and the azorious version draws your deck and wins with Thoracle, but they play the same way, blinking Abdel in and out, but I can see why that's not good in cEDH. so the Orzhov version is pared with "Agent of the Iron Throne" and the Azorious version is paired with "Candlekeep sage". I put Sardian Avenger in my Winota deck, I don't think I've ever drawn it since putting it in. the reason I put it in is for its last effect, so people lose life when spending treasures, that is the only reason it is in there, the fact that it can be a massive creature is an afterthought. Lost mine of Phandelver is the best dungeon because it wins you the game with Acereak and rooftop storm :)

[@kevinchamp9722]

Witherbloom Apprentice also a card that sees play from Strixhaven.

[@SickOfItAll1988]

No one saw Winota coming imo. Look how long it took for Ian to built the first (talked about) Winota stax list, it was like two years after it was printed?

[@toctheyounger]

It's not exactly a hot take but my guess is we don't see battles until the LoTR set. Guarantee we get battle at weathertop, the bridge of khazad dum, helms deep, the pelennor fields etc etc.

[@lisaparker271]

so atraxa 2.0..... food chain into thoracle? and since you put it into your hand so you dont mill yourself out, and you at least get 3 devotion for thoracle?

[@carettcake8752]

I would love a video on a tier list of combos, so I can you guys shit on world gorger dragon again 😂

[@alanpigate8776]

Strixhaven had culling ritual🤣🤣

[@craigfernandez4433]

Don’t forget that wandering archaic was from strixhaven

[@ogexampl3607]

Is wash away not good even though you can counter a commander for 1 blue?

[@chris8983]

Y’all should do this every January and revisit the cards from the year prior

[@zer0323]

the evaluation of atraxa was off because most people weren't expecting the sum of all those parts to be worth the 7 mana cost but 5 color niv proved that it can draw a lot of cards if you build under the right conditions but atraxa's conditions are easier.

[@kamikazechicken8794]

I specifically use Tasha's Hideous Laughter as a win con with breach

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

Guys I saw the community super low on Atraxa and I was sorta dumbfounded. 4 colors? Combo piece in the command zone (w/ Displacer kitten stuff and foodchain), Nasty beater, way to turn the corner (and this last part was the big thing to me. This commander is damn strong but it’s not a turbo commander) I threw a list together and made it a staxy control deck that can keep people from winning early w disruption then immediately turn the corner by casting Atraxa. I think people are either low balling the number of relevant cards you draw from dropping her or thinking you have to make too many consessions to get 4.5 cards each time? And they maybe forgot about ephemerate or Displacer kitten or just how well these things layer together. Atraxa is without any doubt a very real cedh commander. If anyone has interest in it lemme know here and I’ll share my personal list.🖖

[@andrewrockwell1282]

Cam doing the patrons solo as if he were not solo is great.

[@peterthompson4376]

I recon Tasha's Hideous Laughter has a home in Krark and Sakashima I recon milling for 60 - 80+ mana coping it three or four times will absolutely destroy, or at least get a mass table conceding, a wins a win i suppose.

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Disagree

[@NewSchoolPOKERstrat]

I wanna weigh in on Plaza of heroes. I run it in my cedh Malcolm Kediss deck. 1) it obv casts both manders and they are only 2 and 3 cmc and Malcom gets whacked a lot 2) I play; Ragavan, Magda, Grazzelax, Niv Mizzet, and the Izzet flyer that flips coins/draws cards so it has some legendary creatures (and there just are a lot more legends getting 98/99 play these days. 3) people wanna kill Malcolm and this gives me another way to protect it 4) it’s untapped and taps for colorless regardless. 5) you are a little light on good dual lands in 2 color decks. Honestly I think the card is absolutely fine to good in exactly 2 color partner decks w some number of legendary creatures in the main deck (I think that’s actually more common than it might seem. There are a lot of good legendary creatures in the format and they aren’t gonna stop printing them. Card is a totally defensible include in cedh lists imho

[@JoaoPedro-rl5rv]

atraxa is good in legacy cause you can exile it to cast FOW and FON

[@ChrisGrendahl]

hey cam is that sweatshirt your wearing still in stock awsome design

[@PlaytoWinMTG]

Yes!

[@lewisdavis780]

Came you guys do a tier combo list

[@seankeane769]

Have you guys thought about hosting a online tournament? That would be pretty cool

[@IncrediPaulAZ]

BEAST MODE!

[@cdee34]

Hell yeah dude

[@OnyxANZ]

wait no mention of sheoldred during the DMU discussion? Interesting

[@Dracomandriuthus]

Y'all forgot Wandering Archaic, and the two magecraft payoffs from STX... Y'know, the whole reason golgari is actually playable as non-hulk Honorable mentions go to Storm Kiln Artist in storm lists, Blade Historian, Culling Ritual (In MOST GB Naus decks), and Codie.

[@FreyyaSM]

dude i loved beast wars as a kid

[@RodrigoCML7]

I had very intense opinions about people insanely playing arcane denial, but by the end of the podcast I canon,y think about BEAST WARS

[@JosueOnYT]

I didn't know I wanted Beast Wars cards until you brought it up. WotC! Please! I have money!

[@user-os9ts6id1g]

Maaaan! Only Transformers i watched in my life is Beast Wars! Every day before school :D