Police Use of Deadly Force: Reasonable or Necessary? Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob, Ep. 01

In this first installment of our new series featuring Massad Ayoob, Mas examines the movement among activists to shift the legal standards for police use of deadly force from Reasonable to Necessary in the pursuit of law enforcement and criminal justice reform.
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Critical Mas(s) with Massad Ayoob is a show that provides expert analysis over a wide range of contemporaneous topics related to civilian and law enforcement self defense, the use of force, and second amendment issues, provided by a renowned and established author with a career spanning decades in training law enforcement officers and the public at large, who is frequently called upon to provide expert witness testimony.
ABOUT MASSAD AYOOB:
Massad Ayoob has been handgun editor of GUNS magazine and law enforcement columnist for AMERICAN HANDGUNNER since the 1970s, and has published thousands of articles in gun magazines, martial arts publications, and law enforcement journals. He is the author of some twenty books on firearms, self-defense, and related topics, including “In the Gravest Extreme” and “Deadly Force,” widely considered to be authoritative texts on the topic of the use of lethal force.
The winner of the Outstanding American Handgunner of the Year Award in 1998, Mas has won several state and regional handgun shooting championships. Ayoob was the first person to earn the title of Five Gun Master in the International Defensive Pistol Association. He is the current President of the Second Amendment Foundation. He served 19 years as chair of the Firearms Committee of the American Society of Law Enforcement Trainers, and several years as a member of the Advisory Board of the International Law Enforcement Educators and Trainers Association. In addition to teaching for those groups, he has also taught
for the International Association of Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors and the International Homicide Investigators seminars.
Mas has received judicial recognition as an expert witness for the courts in weapons and shooting cases since 1979, and served as a fully sworn and empowered, part time police officer for 43 years, mostly at supervisor rank. Ayoob founded the Lethal Force Institute in 1981 and served as its director until 2009, and now trains through Massad Ayoob Group. He has
appeared on CLE-TV delivering continuing legal education for attorneys, through the American Law Institute and American Bar Association, and has been retained to train attorneys to handle deadly force cases through the Armed Citizens Legal Defense Network. Ayoob served for two
years as co-vice chair of the Forensic Evidence Committee of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers. He also appeared in each episode of Personal Defense TV (Sportsman’s Channel).

[@RandallD244]

As a recently retired police commander, I appreciate this video. The standard of reasonable must prevail. Our street officers are so hamstrung today... Thank you.

[@thestreetpharmacist2685]

Evening commander, the cops are hamstrung because that son of a bitch George gasgon and his pal Newsom are soft on crime, hard on citizens for excersizing their rights.

[@jessicagrecco5813]

You are so right

[@kevinthegrizzly5074]

Solid advice from a LEGEND. Thank you Mr. Ayoob. Godspeed and stay safe.🇺🇸

[@anarchytelevision8445]

Alyssa Milano is a danger to herself and others she also has a assault weapon and she's randomly firing it in the neighborhood somebody please call the cops

[@Philsgoodnow]

.

[@Kratos_God_of_50_BMG]

I have a degree in Criminal Justice, albeit an Associates Degree, but tack onto that my minor in Sociology, and Professor Ayoob is 100% in my book! He can teach more than someone might learn about guns and self defense in a lifetime into a 17:37 min video.....

[@faadilcajee3640]

Massad is an absolute legend of a man. As an armed civilian living in crime ridden South Africa, I have learnt so much by just watching his KZbin videos. I would love to meet you one day Mas.

[@longjohnsonshagwell3377]

I am just about to go to my meeting for my license tomorrow at the police station. Its for a self defence firearm here in SA. Do you have any tips for me? How long did it take you to get your license?

[@bazab9495]

Here in he UK we are not allowed guns as a means of defense, (we can have shotguns and bolt action rifles for sport and that's it), have you seen our knife crime figures lately!!! I wonder how a Comifornia politician would defend themselves against a knife wheedling lunatic, ohh that's right, they have personal security staff!! One rule for them one for us, don't go down the same road the UK has : (

[@jack_batterson]

And you aren't allowed knives for self-defense, either.

[@trevorphillips4595]

Those politicians have very high-walled(while preaching the borders are boo boo) mansions, and a private security, paid by the tax-dollars. They are hypocrites and liars, they always were. It seems lies and hypocrisy is 2020 standard - opposite day, every day. Even in the US most homicides are caused by melee weapons, drowning, poisoning, suffocation. 5x more likely to be killed by knife than by rifle in US. www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2018-crime-statistics

[@tropocal2343]

*Simple; Make shooting violent criminals a "Sport".*

[@sammiches6859]

We'll liberate you one day

[@auwz66]

Just to clear up, Northern Ireland (which is part of the UK) does have both ownership for personal protection and conceal carry permits. You can also own centre fire pistols in Northern Ireland exactly the same before the ban in the rest of the UK. So not all of the UK is the same. On the main land you can actually own a lot more firearms than people think. The main restriction is no centre fire semi automatic firearms. So you can for example have an MP15-22 as its rimfire. You can also have semi automatic shotguns (be it an actual "shotgun" i.e 3rnds). Muzzle loaders are fine. Lever guns are fine. Thats just touching the sides. Not even mentioning Section 7 firearms. IV8888 has a good video on the subject which goes into pretty decent level of detail. As for the "test" in the UK we use reasonable AND necessary for use of force.

[@brandonsimon2804]

Mr Ayoob… anyone who’s ever purchased a Wilson combat already knew Mr Bill Wilson is a genius but befriending you might be the icing on a very already beautiful cake lol . I have spent my entire life in a military and law-enforcement family, have an arsenal beyond words, and study my craft on a daily basis, and I have never seen anyone who is quite as knowledgeable as you and who can put things in terms that anyone can understand quite as good as you.!!! you are a master of your craft and I thank you for your time and service

[@filtonkingswood]

Fortunately in Europe, at this time, ordinary citizens are unlikely to face these problems because we are forbidden to protect ourselves, our loved ones and property with firearms. However, I find the subject fascinating and its a privilege to listen to someone as knowledgable and experienced as Mass speak on the subject. Many thanks

[@Bulldog75stp]

"He only had a knife" Sign on door of courtroom..."no knives or guns allowed" If knives are so less menacing, why can't you take one inside court? lol

[@badbob85037]

Knifes?! they take your fingernail clippers.

[@vics.1176]

Mr. Ayoob. I've been listening to your lectures for a long time. Also a retired Law Enforcement Officer; I only wish I had your encyclopedic mind and intellect to so beautifully express reasonable thought in the interpretation and application of Law. Well done, sir.

[@jamespapen5147]

Yes! Masterful communicator who stretches this writer in communicating clearly, using precise language for the EDC person. Mr. Ayoob … you have a unique & valuable gift.

[@pianochannel100]

I love this man's voice so much

[@edjacala3025]

excellent presentation on your views on current events Massad! some people don’t realize that police are people too and based on their training have to face some situations that require split second decisions. defunding police is a downhill trend to anarchy and very same people that want to take away 2A are the ones running up to ask the police to help.

[@jeffsteinorth2667]

Thank you. I do not believe I have head anyone put forward as complete and comprehensive a case for their views and maintain such a superior balance in their views, backed by irrefutable reason. It should be noted that during repeated tests it was shown that a skilled person with a holstered side arm can not have any real chance of stopping a man 21 feet away, from killing him with a knife. There just isn’t enough time to draw and shoot, if the shooter is not aware of the treat, before the knife attacker charges. I last saw this demonstrated on “Myth Busters”.

[@karkess313]

Awesome as always! Thank you so much! Your fleeting thoughts in 10 minutes are worth more than 47 years of Biden political service!

[@garrettgarrett7974]

This is a SUPER GOOD episode! Thanks Mass!

[@gowilsoncombat]

Glad you enjoyed it!

[@tonnywildweasel8138]

This vid is GOLD in a world where common sense isn't so common anymore! It deserves a 'bazilion' likes. Thanks for sharing, appreciate it a LOT. Greets, T.

[@gowilsoncombat]

Much appreciated!

[@Gothic1Actual]

Thanks for providing this info. I live in CA and wasn't aware. Thank you.

[@FrdmFlwr]

I appreciate you sharing your knowledge, and your calm demeanor. Thank you for these videos sir.🇺🇸

[@richardboll8763]

Thanks Mas! I’m sharing this on Facebook! About time we fight back with some good old common sense!

[@ramblingunguy3982]

Massad Ayoob is always so smooth speaking and well-informed. I really enjoy watching his stuff and agree with everything he is saying.

[@scooterdogg7580]

he's the only one I can listen to and enjoy on this channel , Wilson might be OK but the other two jokers annoy the heck out of me

[@fredcolon2341]

I been a long fan and reader of your writings for years since the early 1980s and one day would like to meet you, and l think you are one of the last of the originals from back in the day and always true of fact one of the best still around, also would like to see maybe future books on knife defense and non-lethal impact weapons and flashlights..

[@donjohnson5172]

I've learned a great deal from you Mas. Keep doing the work of a real patriot. Some people get all up in arms about you because of your support for police, but a 5 minute video is enough to show that you are doing what you do for the united States citizens as a whole.

[@hopewilliams6705]

Thank you for your time sir!

[@chriserickson4417]

Thank you Massad for an excellent video and definitely some food for thought.

[@jimtewa8096]

Thank you Sir for sharing you knowledge & wisdom looking forward to taking one of your classes, stay safe.

[@Philsgoodnow]

Mr. Ayoob is a tremendous asset to your posts. I would seek him out online as his manmrr and means of relaying practical, logical, and always to the point. He is the real deal. Thank you for the

[@froggybugs]

Excellent and well-reasoned presentation. I wish these arguments appeared in the news media as well.

[@roykiefer7713]

Absolutely superb and reasoned advice and commentary!

[@rayriz4609]

Excellent video. I hope Mr. Ayoob will continue to be on this channel.

[@georgelancaster6701]

Words of gold...

[@txtermm]

Thank you Massad

[@BobbyRondinelli1]

He makes so much sense, well said 👍

[@sparky_-mf2cs]

We need more people like masaad in this world... thanks for this channel and sharing your knowledge with us all

[@gowilsoncombat]

Our pleasure!

[@yesterdayshero2916]

As always, well done Mas.

[@metamorphicorder]

Tense and rapidly evolving situations. IE "dynamic".

[@pehenryjr]

Another brilliant one. Is this man a Judge, because he needs to be.

[@r.mercado9737]

Spot on! Semper Fi

[@tmaddrummer]

I've been off the job and retired for some time now; and these days, adversaries are more likely to kill by any means available, and to me, it seams more so these days than when I was in LEO's shoes. Mas, I certainly appreciate your professional insight for many, many years now. If "We The People' fail to take back the streets of America and restore Law and Order, law abiding citizens and our Police Officers will not be able to exist. Stay safe, stay vigilant, and most of all, stay close to God....... Thanks and Blessings!

[@calvinhobbs89]

Thank you for your great insight

[@N98858]

Well "Said and Presented" Massad... ';-) Thanks

[@sterlingarcher1775]

You are the man. Nuff said.

[@garrettgarrett7974]

Jeckyl/Hyde analogy was brilliant!

[@chord972]

I haven't been receiving notifications even though subscribed with "notifications".

[@garryhynds4870]

Well said; Sir

[@DirtyRobot]

Just stumbled upon Mr. Ayoob. Holy balls this guy knows some deep ass dimensions on things.

[@jasondee6416]

Great presentation very informative,,,thank you!

[@gowilsoncombat]

Glad it was helpful!

[@donlocke64]

Excellent advice

[@MegaAlek]

Great advice

[@acrap56]

Excellent video!

[@drmaudio]

Well spoken.

[@timwilkerson8867]

Great video.

[@cashields4660]

Thanks Mas. Not all of us Californians are caving to the current soft minded in Sacramento.

[@timmoss3226]

California police should all refuse to work given this new "standard" on the use of deadly force.

[@hawkeyeted]

.....or we can start making it a civil crime for legislators to brazenly violate the Constitution. There's currently no downside for commies to violate the Constitution. They write law that they KNOW pushes the boundaries and it take YEARS to get the cases heard in court. By then, the damage is done. We needs to start holding THEM accountable.

[@subwoofer6726]

If an officer has no ability or desire to learn how to work with a new standard on policy, then they have no right being an officer. Good. None of us want you wearing a uniform if you have a problem with the idea of not being able to kill someone because your gun has become the only tool you rely on for the problem This spiteful mentality reeks of authoritarianism.

[@jackthomas6952]

@@subwoofer6726So an Officer should just let somebody kill him/her?? You Sir are an Idiot and a perfect example of what’s wrong with our Country.

[@kentnordland5034]

Excellent series. More Mas...or is that redundant?

[@marcoluoma3770]

My hope is that officers will recognize where they’re appreciated and wanted and behave accordingly.

[@joescott701]

I was wondering if Mr Ayoob was puting out content in these crazy times. In the greavest extreme should be required reading for anyone who gets a carry permit / license.

[@avonleamontague2469]

Oh, the stories he and Detective Joe Kenda could tell each other. I need them to ha w a show together

[@hollynites445]

I think we all should be held to the same standard as law enforcement. Since only 1/2 percent actually go to jail for their crimes.

[@ShweddyBawlz]

Police face situations daily that many of us have never faced once, yet judge our LEOs as though we know better

[@doriangray2347]

This guy needs to never die and follow me forever. He would be a nightmare expert witness to contend with.

[@scooterdogg7580]

nobody does it better sir :)

[@KpexSmith]

In my town, all I have to do is look at them, and they flee. Great video 🖖😊🇺🇸

[@Leonardokite]

I watch a lot of self protection videos. I find it amazing the constraint that cops use when their lives are in peril. They often wait to the last possible moment and they often pay the price. Sure there are some who shoot first and ask questions later but that is not the norm. I feel sorry for how much we have handcuffed the police to do their job.

[@mariasantana6861]

Honey you need to smile & laugh more , you look way to serious,, great video !!!

[@alr5373]

Why would the VCSD show up to Milano’s house? They should have sent VIP, the volunteers in policing. That’s who shows up after I call them for break-Ins.

[@jalan8171]

When the politicians write the rules of engagement during times of political unrest, the lives of the police are usually put into greater jeopardy.

[@jackieeastom8758]

Deadly force is a critical defense against violence!

[@jalan8171]

We'll see in the future in those jurisdictions that choose to reduce and further restrict their police forces how well the responding Social Worker force deal with such maniacs. Will those incidents make the front pages and what will the response of the politicians to those violent circumstances?

[@dfl19034]

Can you give us the link you mentioned about the officers being killed with the assailant with a knife.

[@NovaScotiaNewfie]

It's a known fact that a bad person with a knife can close the gap and attack officers before they could discharge their pistol or in some cases before they draw it. There are videos on youtube of officers doing this training. That belief is held by the same folks who say shoot them in the arm or leg to e d the threat, like life is like a movie.

[@williamhudson943]

Great videos that everyone should listen and learn from! Thanks bro Happy Holidays!!!! 👍🍀😎🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[@gowilsoncombat]

Same to you!

[@gunengineering1338]

BTW. I read Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde in middle school. And in the book i read, Dr. Jekyll killed himself to stop the madness. It was actually a pretty sad story.

[@dano1956]

Amen buddy> ACLDN Member

[@watcher6286]

We are seeing the madness of those who refuse to see justification in a necessary use of force by police in Philadelphia, already a cop has been ran over by a truck at high speed and other police are being attacked and chased through the streets. All over police shooting a man who was aggressively approaching them with a knife

[@marchingfellow3847]

One part of the problem and perhaps an indicator of what may contribute to a possible "solution", is to recognize the relevance of notice to and then education of the citizenry. Putting all "on notice" regarding the lethality of the knife as a weapon and the therefore at least potential for lethal and immediate response by law enforcement officers or even civilians defending themselves from knife attack is perhaps something which is as worthy of public relations and information campaigns as many other public safety issues. Such campaigns would be widespread enough to reach both those who may at some point end up contemplating wielding a knife with criminal intent as well as those who would come to their defense without realizing or contemplating the reality of the threat posed. The awareness of the speed with which distance can be closed by a knife wielding attacker and it's importance in forcing an immediate response by an officer or civilian would be an additional element of such campaigns, the net effect of which might hopefully be fewer such attacks in the first place. This is the gist of what Mas is saying, and this video is a great example of just such an educational "campaign". Makes it well worth sharing.

[@kenmount294]

There was a narrator that this guy sounds like. I'm not sure if it was a movie or tv show but his voice sounds so familiar. It's gonna drive me nuts now. Lol

[@johnnyappleseed79]

Looking for the best 1911 .45 round for home defense. Rather the bullet not go through every wall and into the neighbors living room if anything does happen

[@hopscotch1019]

Put this on when trying to fall asleep. Ugh, shessh

[@keprkamer]

What knife does he bring out at 6:41?

[@jcantavella]

Unfortunately this is the crazy result of politicians seeking personal benefits at the expense of reason and the duty they’ve been assigned.

[@marchingfellow3847]

Philadelphia

[@QQL3]

Reasonable, prudent people vote for reasonable, prudent people. "[P]eople get the government they deserve." (various attributions)

[@gillygil8747]

Dear Mr. Ayoob, Does this Graham v Connor include the current frame of reference that Police Officers are being lured into situations to be assassinated? The word amazing is way over used today. So, I am thrown for a loop that the very thing you spoke of regarding a knife happened 10/26/20 in Philadelphia. I have seen your instruction on the Tueller Drill. The attacker in Phila. had chased the cops around a car and back out into the street. The cops dropped him in his tracks. Riots broke out. People got big TVs from the nearest Walmart. Applying what you have explained, I can't see these cops being wrong. Anybody traveling to Philadelphia and it's environs would want to take extra precautions between now and he election. I wish you the best, Sir.

[@user-ue6iv2rd1n]

He a gud boi he wuz gunna be famus chef n sheit u raycis

[@lennoo5682]

So I read the statute and legal analysis but nowhere does it say necessity is judged in hindsight. It is judged on what a reasonable police officer could reasonably deem as necessary in the circumstances

[@FNG_Star]

I am sorry, I agree with so much Ayoob says, but he made a few strawmen. It is not the "guy had a rubber knife, not a real knife," scenario that has caught the attention of even many on the right, it is the cops shooting unarmed people and then when asked they say it was because they could not see their hands, thus they claim to thought the suspect might be reaching for a gun thus they feared for their lives. Or watching a man go unconscious who was in clear medical distress, hear an officer next to the offending cop say, "I am concerned about excited delirium," and yet the officer maintains what appears to be a carotid chock on the guys neck. So it is time for the rules of engagement for police to become more stringent. If the military can hold their stuff together and not just shoot everything on an actual battlefield, it is fair to expect police on American soil to demonstrate the same if not MORE restraint. I do not agree that govt enforcement bodies like law enforcement and police have a right to use their individual rights as a mechanism to expand the powers of the govt position they occupy. When a person signs up for the military or police they accept that with their authority comes limitations. Those limitations on the battlefield and on the streets can indeed get officers and soldiers killed. But that is the cost of a free society. That is the cost of serving your country and trying to help it make the world a better place. It is the cost we pay to maintain the moral high ground to all the evil in the world. So no, officer safety, i.e. govt safety, is no more important than citizen safety. Cops should not be allowed to preemptively shoot unarmed people. Or kneel on their neck minutes after they went unconscious.

[@seppshlllearningcenter419]

🤡

[@jam3670]

The problem is there is no standard for police. Deadly force immediately for a lot of them. No mistakes allowed in either direction. Someone is armed and clearly means harm, no question take them out. Legaly armed citizen complying, or unarmed citizen who makes the police mad and ends up dead. That's the problem right now. As far as defending the police, my take is a militarized police department is a problem. I'm in a large city and I've yet to see the need for armored vehicles and every "Officer " needing to show up with an AR.

[@matthewsecord7641]

If anything, we need to fund the police a LOT more, especially those that need help seeing the shit they do everyday. Imagine how your faith in humanity is when your job is to see the worst?

[@JRock3091]

The take away is Massad carrys a Spiderco

[@davidhack6789]

Masaad, if you know Kevin Michelawski of USCCA, you know what he says right? I agree with what he says: "I'm more afraid of a knife than I am a gun!" And I'll add to that or paraphrase Kevin: "I'm more afraid of a knife and POLITICIANS than I am a gun or a DAMN VIRUS!"

[@user-kd7hp3vi4c]

It’s still reasonable force because of penal code 835a. The protests and that new law didn’t change a thing here.

[@jato72]

That is what we were trained. Here is some of PC835a: (4) "That the decision by a peace officer to use force shall be evaluated from the perspective of a reasonable officer in the same situation, based on the totality of the circumstances known to or perceived by the officer at the time, rather than with the benefit of hindsight, and that the totality of the circumstances shall account for occasions when officers may be forced to make quick judgments about using force."

[@fullblast1971]

I'm not an expert, only a firearm sport user. The recent use of force i by police in the States is apparently unnecessary. Often against unarmed citizens. My understanding of this law, as you described it, is to restrict the margins for police abuse of force. But I'm not na US citizen and i'm not expert on American laws

[@Swampytheroot]

Sir, I have been a follower for 30+ years. The legal debates (Treyvon) are becoming so dishonest to paint legal 2A persons as 'anti-American.' How the hell did this happen?

[@TigerxrayLIB]

The next time there is a man armed with a knife incident call Gavin, he will save you.

[@vincentrocco7301]

defunding the police is not an option, we need them as a check valve. I was amazed that miss molano called for defunding the police, but when she was put into a synerio of danger, 911 came very easily. Some people just dont have a clue!! peace Vince

[@johnrobi0]

If you own a gun, you are likely in more legal jeopardy than your attacker; even if your attacker uses a gun.

[@zerpblerd5966]

you misunderstand the Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde story completely but otherwise excellent video

[@zerpblerd5966]

it's about the darkness within all men and the narcissism that makes that grow

[@davidunderwood3605]

I absolutely agree police should have the right to defend themselfs. But when it comes to prosecutors this same ideas have not applied equally to civilians who defend themselfs and their families. Prosecutors have historically gone after civilians becouse they dont have union lawyers to go to court and fight for them. It ends up costing the average person a fortune. Ask Paul Harrell. The laws are not applied equally to civilians and police officers in the past or even now. Look at the many cases being brought before the courts. The anti gun anti constitutional prosecutors are very prevalent even when there are those who beleave otherwise. Not all civilian shootings are rightous, but so are not some of the police shootings.

[@fineartonfire_5327]

At the end of the day, the cops are still private citizens. So they still have ALL the same rights we do.

[@AGC828]

(I'm a gun guy) But, I'm seeing how funny it is that the anti-gunners will pull news incident examples in their favour just as some almost militant gunners do (e.g. Massad). I mean Alissa Milano is another celeb. She has her agendas too. Maybe joining the "anti-gunners" to be trendy. To follow the in-crowd. Just to fit in. Just as politicians have to do as their supporters want even if they might actually be pro-gun...for example. Hard to find people in the middle. unbiased. Not strongly for one side.

[@dinosnider6809]

This week, I saw a science 'study'. It noted 14% of respondents had carried an illegal firearm in the last 6 months. Care to guess which ones insist they did so cuz cops? Yup. Got it in one. Gangbangers. On related note, all my ex-con acquaintances were pro BLM/ defund the police in 2020. Do they bear a grudge? Yup. (TY Mr. Ayoob, reading Stressfire in the early 90s, as a crim student who wanted to be a cop, was highly influential to me!)

[@matthewsecord7641]

Another great book is, "The Outsider," by Albert Camus. Painful read, untolerable for the first 75%.

[@wicked1172]

Alyssa Jekyll -- Milano, American actress.