Ruby Franke & Jodi Hildebrandt #10 - (Therapist Reacts)

[@cindyliao2250]

Ruby said her kids do not get privacy in her house and she took away her teenagers’ phones. So how does a 3 year old have access to and become addicted to porn? It just doesn’t make sense.

[@conniegarvie]

Unless she defines porn as accidently seeing a woman in a swimsuit!

[@sallycinnamon5370]

Maybe he liked music videos.

[@hivemindconcussion2173]

Teletubbies didn’t wear clothes.

[@KisDraga]

Pretty sure she also equates tiktok as 🌽

[@skylark1250]

A 3 year old would have no idea what she is watching if porn came on a computer screen. Isn’t the parent supposed to be monitoring this? It sounds like the mom was looking at porn. And how does she define porn? Children at that age tend to accept what is presented to them. She’s blaming her children for bad behavior, but I can’t think of anything worse than a mom starving her kids and putting cayenne pepper in their wounds from being bound in duct tape. Cruel and unforgivable brutality.

[@ludiprice]

11:06 - The child did actually tell the 911 caller to call the police - the caller actually states that clearly to the operator. But during the call you can hear the child say it was his fault, and the caller relays that to the operator. He also says that nothing bad is going on at the home, despite his condition being evidence to the contrary. Obviously this kid was brainwashed to believe he deserved what he got, yet a part of him knew he still had to escape, and the police still had to be called. Thank god he took the risk.

[@LILYoOASIS]

Or maybe they wanted the police to save their sibling(s) even if they felt they deserved what happened to them, they didn't feel their sibling deserved what was happening to them.

[@yogadork_namaste]

A 3 year old cannot look up porn! They wouldn't even know what it is. Unless she was showing porn to her 3 year old, she's lying. She's the one on video saying her children can't have privacy, boundaries or secrets. So she admits she knows everything about her children.

[@TricommStrategies]

Hammer meet nail head

[@Evilene121162]

You also have to consider what she might consider porn. I’d easily imagine that the child wanted to watch Captain Underpants (a kids show for those not familiar), for example. We’d be doing the children a disservice by taking Ruby’s word at face value, while also knowing that’s her ideas are extreme - and I unfortunately HAVE to use this word - severely distorted way of thinking.

[@lilacscentedfushias1852]

Three year olds would ask why they didn’t have clothes on, they’re incapable of that kind of interest in it. Basic biology, puberty is what makes older children get an interest in others in that way. Why doesn’t their brain tell them how stupid it is? Sheesh!

[@Alyssa_M513]

This really echos what Jody's neice said in their intervew with Mormon stories. Idk if you saw clips of that but Jody kept insisting that they were looking at porn and also masturbating. She says she didn't even really know what that was but admitted to it because Jody told her the torture would end if she confessed.

[@pshaw8406]

This accusation is so ludicrous.

[@bearswithglasses]

I've said it 100+ times: when a country has legalized assault and abuse of children, helping kids becomes incredibly difficult because it's a judgement call of "how bad" is the abuse. Not whether abuse is happening, because we've agreed abuse is fine. But how bad is too bad. That's incredibly fucked up. If it's a crime against an adult, it should be a crime against a child. Period.

[@t.j.5044]

That student was Adam Paul Steed. She ruined his marriage, and his wife was the dual relationship. He lost his family, and his education. He still suffers to this day. His interview on Mormon stories was ordered to be removed.

[@Maggie903]

what?? by who???

[@WoodlandT]

By the judge I believe. There’s a lot of speculation as to why. But free speech is one of our most sacred and protected rights. Only a judge with good cause could/would/should order it removed. It’s likely part of the state’s case against Ruby & Jodi. The judge may be trying to prevent prejudice of the jury pool. It’s hard to say but I’m sure we’ll find out

[@TricommStrategies]

@@Maggie903 they received a cease and desist letter.

[@WoodlandT]

Cease and desist letters are not binding and carry no actual power. They’re basically threats drafted by lawyers not judges. Mormon Stories may have chosen to remove it in response to a cease and desist. But that would’ve been their choice and not them complying with a binding legal order. It sounded like they received an actual judicial order. It could be that Jodi is suing them and was able to get a temporary order forcing MS to take it down. As far as I’m aware none of this has been clarified yet

[@ludiprice]

@@TricommStrategies John from the Mormon Stories Podcast said they got a court order, not a cease and desist.

[@Mia_Mischief]

From what I understand the child from the 911 call is the same child Ruby is accusing of sexually assaulting other kids. I have a sick feeling in my gut that she did this to retaliate against him, since the accusation means he can't be in the same foster home as his siblings 😢

[@gacktist00]

but she let him alone stayed with his youngest sister!! she said he did bad things to younger sister but let them together alone without parent or adult in someone else's house.. does she thinks we are all that dumb?😩😩

[@janshe3597]

@@gacktist00She never said those words, she didn’t say who he ALLEGEDLY touched, EVER, She LIED! The two youngest children were the ones injured, what your suggesting didn’t happen. They were never just left alone, they were tied with rope and handcuffed, so they couldn’t do anything to each other…

[@janshe3597]

Exactly, she is a really idiotic person, she claimed one of the books at the Elementary School was pornographic…Her ideas and thoughts DO NOT mesh with mainstream society.

[@vanessagertz3354]

Jodi did unforgivable things to Adam Steed. I watched the whole interview and I can't imagine going through everything he had to endure.

[@cindyliao2250]

And now Adam is being silenced!

[@ludiprice]

For real. You can see in how he looks and how he speaks how all these traumas have worn him down over the years... yet still he fights. I have utter respect for him.

[@nicolechampeau8432]

It was such a powerful interview. I hope they can get it back up.

[@MG-hz7wi]

They took down that interview? Really. I wonder why. It could be because you could see that this man had all the hallmarks of severe trauma. I saw it and my heart just hurt so badly. Sometimes you can barely bring himself to speak, he was so traumatized, but he was so brave. I can't believe they took it down. Hurrah for free speech....

[@Schu0086]

I watched part of the interview but I didn’t complete it. It has now been taken down; mormon stories did explain this - it seems Adam is involved in a new case about this issue and for legal reasons they were asked to take the interview down. But it’s not an effort to silence him, by Mormon Stories anyway. I’m sure the video will come back eventually and I’ll finish watching when it does. I also saw the strong markers of trauma and he explains a few times that he’s getting overwhelmed or disoriented as a trauma response to the subject. I have every hope that Adam will be able to thrive and move forward and get some greater justice for the wrongs done to him.

[@lizl1407]

Underfunding CPS is a deliberate political choice. There is enough money in our world to adequately fund those services and our leaders just choose not to. Remember that the next time a politician claims they will "save children" or they "care about families"

[@zsazsamorte]

My friend has been working for a non-profit that works alongside CPS in Texas. And the things they are doing to children who need help in Texas…they have defunded group homes and other services for protective services. And the way my friend try to help kids, while Texas seemed to actively work against helping kids. It breaks my heart watching how much it’s draining her amazing spirit.

[@Tink00]

Dr Honda, I was severely re-traumatized by a therapist 5 years ago, but your channel (and a couple others) motivated me to try again, and helped me figure out what to look for in a safe, ethical therapist. I have no doubt it's extremely disheartening seeing the damage Jodi Hildebrandt may have done to the profession, but I think that just emphasizes even more how important the work you do is. The more people abuse (social) media, the more we need people like you, who use it for good

[@alittlestone]

In Jessi's interview, they said Jodi "had visions" about things they had done, including having sex and a sex addiction and an abortion, which they'd never done and which Jodi insisted Jessi confess to. I think it's very possible that this is the case with the allegations against Ruby's kids. It's so awful to imagine what those poor children went through at her hands knowing some of the details of Jessi's abuse. Just heartbreaking.

[@dolphinmom37]

My thoughts exactly.

[@jacquelineglitter4328]

It was only in her sick mind not those kids mind.

[@sundog5143]

Dr Kirk will you talk about the "sex addiction" therapy and the way couples/families were treated by Jodi and the church?

[@victoriagrove5344]

While observing the video clips of the family during the “Eight Passengers”, I began to notice nervous tics in the younger kids, as well as a hyper alert reactions to Ruby. I also noticed the kids had sunken eyes. Chad would do everything possible to distract himself from what his mother was saying. These kids must have been living in terror for a long time :(

[@suepeachey1730]

I totally agree with you, Justice for these cbildren❤❤

[@TricommStrategies]

Regarding her accusations of her son: If you follow the "reasoning" used as evidenced by their videos and what her niece testified as her experience, it is easy to see how they could go from "thinking sexual thoughts is a sin... thinking is as good as doing it... therefore if he 'confessed' to having the thoughts, he was therefore as good as "doing" it. Therefore the 12-year-old confessed to something (to get the abuse to stop as per niece Jessie) and that is then taken and used as if he actually did it. And by saying that, they isolate the children from each other (because of the accusation, to error on the side of caution they had to place him apart from his siblings). This is why Jessie said they came forward - because when they heard that Ruby was accusing her son of this, they knew how that could happen and they didn't want this poor child to carry that stigma with him forever (public accusations never truly go away).

[@juliagooliaaaaa]

I’m a teacher and have had to make multiple reports to DCFS throughout my career. They are so burnt out and stretched thin that they can rarely even do anything. If a child is taken out of their home you know something extremely awful was done to them. It’s so sad.

[@helloleesh]

One thing you forgot about the possible reasons for Ruby's claims about Russell... one I can't stop thinking about: It's possibly a way to exert control and punish her kid while she's being punished. She has to sit in jail, meanwhile, she still has the power to force one of her children out of any homes where his own siblings (or other minor family members) may be present. If this is the case, and even if it's not, she truly is an evil, evil person.

[@Khnole6619]

That’s what I keep thinking, they used the last bit of control and only stage they had left to continue to hurt and control those children, which appears to be a compulsion for them at this point.

[@mayloomis9638]

11:10 It's all on the 911 call - it was really sad. The child was saying that the tape and rope marks and starving were his fault. The rescuer choked up while talking to the 911 operator while he was waiting for police to arrive.

[@charlize9341]

Thank you for validating the anger that comes from abuses and failures to protect.

[@krystal_senem]

So that guy is Adam Steed. His Mormon Stories podcast episode is now removed due to a cease and desist letter but here's his story from Mormon Stories website: Adam Paul Steed, raised Mormon, was abused as an LDS Boy Scout in Idaho. He became a nationally known whistleblower when he turned in a dangerous predator, and teamed with his father to successfully change the Idaho sexual abuse statue of limitations laws. Later, Adam moved to Utah with his new wife to attend Brigham Young University. Soon thereafter tragedy stuck when he fell into the crosshairs of Mormon therapist Jodi Hildebrandt - at the recommendation of his Mormon bishop. Among other violations, Jodi Hildebrandt sought to paint Adam as an abuser (with no evidence), and violated Adam’s client confidentiality by reporting him to the BYU Honor Code office, which led to the suspension of her therapist license around 2012.

[@patricianoel7782]

I watched them while 6 hours of the Mormon stories podcast. It was so upsetting. I still have his sad face and words in my mind. Thank you so much to all those who try to help us broken people.

[@GarysActionManChannel1970]

In all this foulness, the decency and kindness of Shari Franke and Jesse Hildebrandt is the only bright spot in the awful business

[@janshe3597]

Story out earlier today that Shari has custody of her two middle sisters. We still haven’t heard anything about the whereabouts of the injured younger two…

[@bridgetgiles4578]

Yeah but also learned disturbing info about parenting techniques of Ruby’s sister (Jesse?) who uses blanket training (restricting young children’s area to a blanket)so that she could keep up her KZbin channel and religious duties…. Hmmm

[@jenniferhyde5389]

And Adam Steed❤

[@whym6438]

@@bridgetgiles4578 You're thinking of Bonnie.

[@lori3056]

The child who escaped actually asked the neighbor to call the police, and also said that what happened to him is his fault. 💔

[@janshe3597]

Yes, it was the youngest one that didn’t want to go to the hospital, or talk to Police, she was terrified of them, it took them four hours to convince her that she needed to go to the hospital…

[@NamiNaeko]

The realization that Ruby was trying to discredit her child to the court to justify the abuse 😢😢😢 those poor babies. If a child really is abusing and hurting others, you don't try to ruin them you try to help them and fix the issue, not abuse them

[@NamiNaeko]

She is trying to silence her child because she deems them a problem who doesn't deserve a voice of their own in all this

[@kateashby3066]

Narcissists know no bounds. They’re also very delusional. My dad who was just like Ruby got far worse after he lost custody of us (3 girls age 10-13). The stress of losing this control over is caused him to embrace his delusions. He started accusing us of stealing a diamond ring from his room and replacing it with a CZ. As if a 14 year old knows how to do that 🤦🏻‍♀️. He also accused us of being in a gang because we all wore flannel shirts (it was the 90’s!). The crap he accused us of in an effort to try and make it seem like we were worse off without him as our primary parent was bonkers. He never did it to seek revenge tho because he really did believe this crap. I’ll end with this- if a parent is deemed unfit by the courts and the kids are removed from their custody and given to the other parent, maybe don’t force them to visit the toxic parent if they don’t want to? We weren’t given a choice. And the visits weren’t supervised. Kinda reminds m if Adam Montgomery who is also a narcissist and killed his child- the courts gave her to him because of “parental rights” 🙄. What about VICTIMS RIGHTS?

[@kateashby3066]

My dad is wasnt a Mormon but few up in Idaho (I believe he was raised Catholic) and his punishments were also very abusive and similar to Ruby’s. Like, when I was 6 he forced me to stand in the corner overnight (in his room) and he’d wake up often to make sure I was still standing up and staring at the wall. Seems to be the way to raise kids up there 🤦🏻‍♀️

[@elizabethlacky6068]

Jodie's good friend Pam, was a Eagle Scout and president of Conextions. This can explain why Jodie went after Adam for the abuse he suffered in the Boy Scouts.

[@mandi4794]

He pissed off a lot of powerful church people when he exposed the boy scouts.

[@akathecatlady]

When Jodi had her license suspended, a part of it was that she not only went to BYU honor code office and the LDS Church, but she also LIED about what Adam had done. It wasn't just breaking confidentiality...

[@Peaceshiet812]

In what world does a 3 year old look at porn , and I thought she was in control of what her children were doing 24/7 make it make sense !

[@arsyoubae5092]

I wish you got to the Adam steed interview in time. like other comments have stated it was a truly powerful interview and showed Jodi's clear patterns of abuse

[@MG-hz7wi]

Is the Adam Steed video back up? Please let me know if so

[@e.k.4508]

​@@MG-hz7wiKonrad Rogoz re-uploaded it

[@karengregory46]

You have such compassion for these children. Thank you for making it clear how the system is . I think it’s worse when a church has doctrine to kinda abuse there children. I grew up in the 60’s and nobody cared what happened to us . The media has a lot of power now to bring all of this out in the open . Everyone has a phone and there are cameras everywhere. Also Ruby’s parents have a KZbin channel and the other sisters of hers as well . This is how they make a living . Well , we are going to wait and see what unfold with these 2 women and Jodi’s therapy Empire .

[@sundog5143]

Dr Kirk please watch the entire interview with Jessi Hildebrandt carefully for information on what is going on with Jodi, Ruby and the church. Then watch entire interview with Adam Steed for more information. Mormon Stories Podcast has posted video with summary of interview with Adam if the entire interview video is no longer available. Many of us have watched both interviews already and are leaving comments here. The speculation is difficult to watch and listen to knowing what we know. It was not some random student it was Adam Steed and his story needs to be heard. Please watch these interviews 🙏

[@dogtrainer4645]

Everyone's saying that since there's now a gag order, Mormon Stories was required to remove his interview.

[@judiths5252]

I suppose if DCFS had suggested a therapist Ruby would have told them they already had one. In one video where they addressed the criticism of their punishments, they said their parenting was directed by a therapist. Unfortunately, that therapist was Jodi.

[@yogadork_namaste]

Do more of these videos, please! I tune in every day to hear your take on the media and conversation around these awful crimes against children.

[@stephaniesilvan3526]

My child was struggling with severe mental health issues and I tried everything to avoid social services from interfering. When I was finally desperate enough, I let them into our lives and during our years long struggle, I have *NEVER* had people being so compassionate, hard-working, engaged, empathic, professional and helpful for our lives than the CPS workers on our case. I'm not living in the US, but there is a similar stigma and fear about them here where I live. Thank you for speaking up for them, they get not enough praise. P.S.: Talking from my own experience, not invalidating anyone else's experience.

[@725Kellybean]

I sat in the court room with my best friend as CPS testified that her 3 children needed to have supervised visitation because of extreme SA by their father. The judge asked her ex husband if he SA’d the kids and he said no. So the judge denied supervised visits and she had to let him take the childhood home from the courthouse. They weren’t not in the courtroom. Just in the courthouse because of extreme separation anxiety. It was terrible.

[@Alayhoo]

WOW. That's horrifying.

[@MsSilverTulip]

I can't understand the last few sentences.

[@725Kellybean]

@@MsSilverTulip The kids were at the courthouse because they had extreme separation anxiety and my friend couldn’t leave them at home with a sitter. The sitter sat in the courthouse with them, but they weren’t in the courtroom.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, I've seen that too. Terrible.

[@shimmyalot]

The reason Jodi got her liscense yanked is because of the Adam Paul Steed case. She not only broke his patient client confidentiality with his church, his school, and his wife she got very close with his wife and conspired with her on ways to destroy him after she had turned his wife against him which she did easily with her whole "to fix a marriage you must destroy it first and then rebuild it" philosophy.

[@lilfiery0ne]

Nationally we need to recognize physical abuse is an escalation from the emotional abuse already happening and like they just did in the UK make things like emotional abuse and coercive control a criminal offense.... good show !!

[@izba5747]

When neighbor said that jodi was a bad woman, that was very telling. She already had a reputation among neighbors.

[@KisDraga]

Law and crime clip mentioned all if rubys neighbours refused to speak to the journalists... I thought that was strange. Made me wonder if they're sipping the same koolaid.

[@mayloomis9638]

See Mormon Stories comments on the interview they did with Adam Steed - I saw the original interview and it was heartbreaking. I think Jodi's company did a legal thing to get them to take the interview down temporarily, but It basically spelled out all of the gaslighting and horrible things they put Adam through. (He's the guy that went to the licencing board - he also was a big part of the case against Boy Scouts of America, which was a long time before he started going to Jodi with his wife at the time, and everything snowballed from there. She basically destroyed his life back then, as far as he could figure, just because he didn't want to go to her sessions when he started seeing all sorts of red flags - and from his previous experiences, he's very sensitive to that stuff. Basically she told him since he was ca that he must be an abuser himself.

[@bronwynsnow4366]

It's been suggested the cease and desist about his Mormon Stories Episode was from Adam Steed's ex-wife who is mentioned by name several times in his interview.

[@RachelGratias]

She shamed her children so she can look better for her crimes. Thats sad because her children are sweet.

[@xinwilson]

It hurts her case actually. I can't imagine her defense lawyer supporting her making that claim. But I guess destroying the kids is more important to her 🙃

[@RachelGratias]

I really hope her kids sue her.

[@cbrown4499]

Saying again, as a clinician myself, I really appreciate Dr Honda's ability to articulate the long standing views that are well understood by colleagues. Expressed understanding of the general state of things with CPS, licensure and just about everything in this case regarding mind control/cult-like behavior. Right on! Thank-you

[@ShatteredInsights]

Love your channel and I find this case so interesting. Thank you for the excellent work. It’s really been helping to inform my ethics journey in counseling grad school. ❤

[@BellClan37]

A lawyer I talked to said she wondered if Franke said "oh I'm an influencer and these are just haters" so when they keep calling and there's 10, 20, 30 calls at a time it seems like internet hate vs legit normal complaints. I wonder if overwhelm made it seem fake.

[@helen.k]

Adam's interview has been removed due to some type of investigative reasons. Does anyone have it? Could they send it to Dr. Honda to watch?

[@Schu0086]

I heard part of the 911 call as well, it is indeed really heartbreaking. You can tell the neighbors could see the child was in very bad condition and the man starts crying on the call when he realizes there’s not just duct tape on the ankles, it’s on his wrists as well. You can tell he understands that this child has been abused but is hesitant to call it that, he eventually says it’s clear the child has been “detained”. This is an emaciated and wounded 12 year old child and I can’t imagine making such a call, but I’m glad the child found a neighbor willing to involve himself in the case to get help for these poor kids.

[@naomimcfarlane6733]

Thank you for telling your side of the story. It helps to get a better perspective of this story

[@dolphinmom37]

Adam Paul Steed was on Mormon Stories. It really shines a light on how Jodi works. It was terrible.

[@Ms.Prairie]

Former poor kid and white-passing Indigenous family: It was always hygiene / new thrift clothing / cosmetics too! My mom was so obsessive with my hair not being fly-away or tangled, or food stains. She was so scared of being a bad young mom, and even she knew our racial privilege gave us a lot of protection on the farm/town culture. Jodi/Kevin/Ruby got away for soooo long because of exactly the social phenomena my mom was ‘aspiring to’, to her own detriment. I actually get treated better if I go to the emergency room / minor emerg with makeup on (I call this hysteria bias in medical professionals). I call it using my patriarchy card 😂 Love you, Dr. H! (autocorrect edits lol)

[@RosyFdz]

13:25 thank you for taking the time to address some of these comments, it helped give me context

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah, sorry about that. We shouldn't paint the entire group with one brush.

[@bonniebrown5557]

The interview with Adam Stead on Mormon Stories Podcast would answer a lot of your questions. But was taken down for legal reasons (I would guess Jodi lawyer had it taken down) it answered most of your questions.

[@ludiprice]

Yeah, that was a shame... but there are snippets from the interview that have been preserved on a lot of other YT videos to do with JH and RF, thankfully.

[@e.k.4508]

​@@ludiprice, Konrad Rogoz re-uploaded it

[@SamaG1234]

Adam steed was on the Mormon stories podcast and he was the student at byu. What she did to him and his family aligns with what she has done here. She seems to have a formula she follows to manipulate her followers. Resulting in separating the wife and kids from the husband.

[@kateashby3066]

I’m new here, and I really like your channel. I’m really interested in psychology and coke from an abusive family similar to Ruby’s, so I appreciate your take in this toxicity. Thank you for being so compassionate.

[@hillahalkosaari499]

I really appreciate you explaining CPS and the process with families! :) I'm working on the family services field in Finland.

[@maryrykert-wolf1725]

Per Adam Steed on Mormon Stories Podcast, he was the BYU student she got kicked out by breaking confidentiality and having a dual relationship with Adam's then-wife. It 2as after Adam left her counseling for a BYU therapist. After conspiring with the wife to get Adam arrested on falsified CSA and DV, Jodi told the BYU Honor Code office of Adam's arrest, telling them he was dangerous.

[@sarahohara4022]

Thanks doc❤ this is such a devastating topic but needs attention

[@TalkTimewithamyboston]

Love your content/perspective 😊

[@CabinFever52]

@ 3:47 I saw the video that the reported man made about that incident. He was an engineering student, I believe, and getting "couple's counseling" from Jodi. She had the couple separate and get all female and all male counseling and split up and if I remember correctly, blamed their problems on sexual perversions that she said he had (I could be a little off with that, but that is what I remember). I don't have the link to the youtube video anymore, but you could do a search to get it, I'm sure. He provided some documentation in the video. I thought I heard on the 911 call that the man said the boy asked him TO CALL the police----nothing about calling the father, either.

[@wesbeuning1733]

Their son probably saw an ad that had someone in a normal bathing suit, or something, when he was 3, and she starting screaming that he was a rapist the rest of his liv. Then that Jodi came around and tortured him into saying it.

[@jodimarie379]

Adam Paul Steed did a 5 hour interview with Mormon Stories. The interview had to be taken down due to a cease and desist letter. However, I listened to the interview. Here was the gist He was in his early 20's and newly married. He had been a whistleblower after he was molested in boy scouts. He and his wife sought help from Jodi after she was recommended to him by the church. They were separated into men/women groups. Jodi diagnosed him as a sex addict, and would also make comments about how he was a potential pedophile because he had been abused. She convinced the couple that they couldn't even talk to each other without her present. He finally sought help from a different therapist from the university and then Jodi came down on him with a vengeance. She told him no one else could help. She told him that going to another therapist was a sign his addiction was ruling him and tried getting him to sign a contract that he could only receive therapy from her. His wife presented him with the contract from Jodi and according to him, more or less said, sign this or we are getting a divorce. He did not go back to Jodi. That was when Jodi went to his bishop and the university and twisted information he had shared with her in confidentiality to get him kicked out of school, fired from his job and terrorized another student he had been friends with. After at least a year of her personally trying to destroy him, he filed a complaint. In the meantime, Jodi had a non-sexual dual relationship with his wife. I believe it was something like she also did some work at Jodi's clinic. Anyways, Adam also had emails between his ex-wife and Jodi where she was coaching her through the divorce proceedings. Such as, "don't complain that Adam did something, instead present it as a question". There was so so so much more. What struck me was how Jodi appeared to have trained Adam's wife to be more manipulative and almost sadistic. I think it is very similar to Ruby. She finds people who might have "tendencies" and instead of counseling them towards empathy and general health, she hones their narcissism and sadism. In the interview with Jessie, they said how good Jodi was at figuring people out and taking what was already there and using it against them. Jodi used Adam's past sexual abuse and tried to make it seem as if he was an abuser - which was one of the worst things she could have done to him. It was beyond sick. Also, in the interview with Jessie, they said how Jodi would have "dreams" and would treat them as fact. Jodi was convinced Jessie had had an abortion when Jessie hadn't even been sexually active. So I can imagine that Jodi "dreamed" that Ruby's child sexually abused other children and Ruby believed it and acted accordingly.

[@KuR58]

There's this very interesting interview with Jesse, who I believe is Judy's nibling and was subjected to basically exactly the same type of abuse. They explained how all of these method's are all basically Judy's (the taping, the starvation, the physical punishment such as being made to sleep on the floor or outside, having no door in the bathroom, no privacy, etc) and they explain also how Judy got under their skin and into their head so much with basically emotional and spiritual abuse. Making them believe they themselves were evil and there was something fundamentally wrong with them. How she saw anything and everything they did as sinful or bad to the point where Jesse even started believing that's the truth and they were evil. That's related to Ruby's allegation towards her child, the one who presumably was addicted to p0rn and sexua11y abused his siblings. Jesse explained how Judy made them think than even masturbating was sexually deviant and that they were sick and there was something wrong with them. To the point where she wouldn't allow them to use a tampon because she said she would try to use it to masturbate, etc. Pretty sick stuff. Jesse also mentioned how in the end sometimes they would even believe things they hadn't done or confess to things they hadn't done because Judy would pressure them into confessing things they hadn't done just because she was completely certain that Jesse was some sexually deviant monster. I'm like, almost a 100% that's what's going on with Ruby's allegations against his child. Also Ruby has considered that a song with slightly suggestive lyrics is straight up p0rn so I'd say her criteria is not trustworthy to what categorizes as p0rn or sexual abuse.

[@lynnemau6454]

Jessi is Jodi’s niece

[@laurenwasinger9436]

I wonder if part of the problem with reporting this family is their internet presence, in the sense that people had been making calls against them for years over things that may have just looked like silly internet meddling. I can imagine a situation where CPS workers just start to tune out because they’ve received so many calls against this family and they just no longer take it seriously.

[@smoore7614]

This is about Adam Steed. Jodi placed this verifiable sexual abuse victim in an abuser's group and sees herself as the gatekeeper of Mormon values, so she talked to BYU about him. He complained and that's a big part of why she was sanctioned.

[@LaurenThePetLover]

The 911 caller said that the child asked him to call the police. Later in the call, when asked if there were any other children and if they were also duct taped with wounds, the boy said nothing bad happened to his sister that was there and what happened to him was his fault.

[@hivemindconcussion2173]

On the upside, these children have their abuse well documented. May their healing and happiness begin. 🙏🏽

[@dogtrainer4645]

those kids are going to need to be deprogrammed first. Then receive a lot of therapy. 😢

[@KisDraga]

Reminds me not just of the duggars but of kate gosselin. She excused her abuse and abandonment of her son collin on the fact that he was a terror hurting others too. Turns out he had adhd..which i think i heard was most likely what rubys son had and why he got the the brunt of the punishments.

[@lynnemau6454]

I heard it’s the youngest girl with ADHD

[@KisDraga]

​@@lynnemau6454that makes sense too.. wasn't she is just as bad of shape as the boy? Poor things

[@lNoWayAroundItl]

28:02 Ugh that made my heart sink. I hope that child had gotten help and safety. For the limited amount of time we have on Earth and to have to experience that at all, it is sick.

[@Well-in-the-garden]

I just noticed the wording on Ruby’s eldest son’s T.shirt- it say We Run Things. Is she also picking what he wears to make him aware of the fact and to remember it at all times?

[@galejohnson8086]

What do you define as a child sexually abusing another child? ie: a little girl discovers she has a vaginal opening and tells another little girl, who then explores her own body? All kinds of innocent things could be “DISTORTED” to believe it is child abuse.

[@broom_people]

There was an investigative report from the NY times about a year ago (I think) that showed that ACS/CPS repeatedly engaged in behavior that was considered not just individually racist on the worker's level but that it was systemic in how they chose to investigate and respond to cases. I currently work for an org conducting therapy for children placed in foster care -- I don't demonize the broader CPS system by any means but it would be negligent to assume that this governmental organization and its workers don't engage in practices that perpetuate systemic inequalities, and that those practices don't have real effects on families and children such as acting more favorably towards white families or acting disproportionately harsh towards families of color.

[@sundog5143]

Dr Kirk will you talk about the "sex addiction" therapy and the way couples/families were treated by Jodi and the church?

[@mammajamma4959]

plz continue to follow this case

[@buffy6673]

My partner was in foster care and he ended up being abused by a kid of the family, same age. But he thought it was so much better than where he was it took him a year to confess the abuse to the CPS worker.

[@SusanMJB45]

In Jessi's interviews, she said that her aunt, Jodi Hildebrandt, would keep accusing her (Jessi) of all kinds of "sins" and while torturing Jessi, she would say "if you will only confess your sins to me, I'll stop the abuse". So... just as prisoners of war who are being tortured will do.... or anyone who is being tortured.... the person being abused will "confess" to whatever the abuser wants them to confess to in order to get the abuse to stop. Ruby accusing her son of being addicted to porn since the age of 3 and of abusing his siblings, reeks of the kind of thing that Jessi is talking about. That Ruby's son would "confess" to anything that Ruby and Jodi accused him of in order to make the torture stop. Nothing that Ruby and Jodi accuse the kids of should be believed. Please listen to Jessi on this issue.....

[@1WFran]

It's not accurate. Try listen to 911 call yourself. The child asked the neighbour to call the police. He did say what had happened was his fault. He had obviously been told that

[@emmyhope26]

What happened with Jodi in regards to the BYU discloser is really dark. Please research Adam Paul Steed. His story was removed from the Mormon Stories Podcast by Court Order (a video on MSP explains this). His account of Jodi is horrendous and mimics the pattern of what happened with Ruby.

[@cozmo840]

I heard the report of her claiming the young child viewed certain materials, and committed SA was made by The Daily Mail, and isn’t credible. Of course not being there, I can’t confirm. This whole case is so bizarre…

[@conniegarvie]

My understanding after deep diving on this subject, CPS might have attempted to visit the Franke home, but they were never able to make contact or ever enter the home. CPS would get there and the door would not be answered. CPS made dozens of ATTEMPTS to visit the family, not actual visits.

[@Mama_Bear524]

Really? So if CPS goes to a house one can just not answer?? That’s a thing??

[@FluentWithHayley]

Would you ever consider going through the newer Plathville seasons?

[@danamoss2730]

Speaking about CPS, there’s a law and order SVU episode that talks about how good people with a garbage system can sometimes result in a horrible situation. Season 17, episode 4, with Whoopi Goldberg. A kid is horrifically neglected and it turns out that CPS was not making visits as they claimed to be, and the caseworker & supervisor get charged with manslaughter. I worked with CPS for years, and it’s not inaccurate. Caseworkers are passionate but it’s literally impossible workloads with hardly any staff and resources.

[@cindyliao2250]

I do worry about Shri, the oldest child. She has to be strong and take care of her siblings who were brainwashed and abused.

[@jenniferhyde5389]

He was a grown man not a kid. If you listened to Adam Steeds interview you will hear how destructive and corrupt she was.

[@steelstrings4]

Oh no, the Adam Steed situation was much worse than what you speculated.

[@Joxman2k]

The student has come out and the ethical violations that she reported were masterbating and watching porn, and he was married with at least one kid. She openly violated him with bishops etc. To ruin his reputation because he didnt want to attend her "program" any longer. ...at least according to him.

[@VickyG212]

Crazy to this this whole thing came to light because that poor child could escape! Imagine if he never did 💔

[@elizabethlacky6068]

RF told the neighbor to call the police, go back and listen to the call..

[@kimmi2662]

I've noticed this trend of parents smashing eggs on thier child's face and I find that to be very unsettling. Anything for views, I just don't understand.

[@akathecatlady]

the Mormon church LITERALLY told the congregation to not listen to ANY outside sources, including family members that are no longer a part of the church. The president of the church said it just this past Sunday.

[@pshaw8406]

Funding is definitely a problem. Gov't wants to pass laws and implement programs but they don't include any new funding for it when social service doesn't have enough funding to even hire enough workers.

[@lNoWayAroundItl]

25:43 The viewpoint of the centuries thanks to conditioning. Statistically "religious" wyt people are exempt from being predators or abusers.

[@Queen_of_Quirky]

Have you ever been an expert witness in a court case dealing with child abuse? If so, in your professional opinion, do you think Jodi and Ruby will actually do serious jail time?

[@lindarosenwinkel9162]

I’m curious if what Jodi did to Adam Steed was a HIPAA violation .. Dr. Kirk, psychologists are bound by HIPAA, correct? And also could be placed on the OIG exclusions list for a gross violation of a patient’s privacy?

[@susansteinhardt8503]

You are a lovely man! First time I’m watching.

[@writeousrhema]

Mormon. That explains it all

[@bronwynsnow4366]

Yeah, the BYU student was Adam Steed, who was also on Mormon Stories. His episode is down right now due to a cease and desist letter reputedly from his ex-wife, who's named in his interview, and who appears to be yet another mormon wife svengali'ed by Jodi's schtick. He recounted the whole awful thing. If it went down as he quite credibly described it, clearly an ethical violation of confidentiality.

[@WooWoo-co4jf]

I think evil R didn't want the oldest son because he was big enough to fight back. I won't give those 3 evils the respect of using their names, they don't deserve it!

[@athanksgivingbaby570]

The "violation" Jodi reported to the BYU honor code division was Adam Steed's supposed "porn addiction".

[@ILovePurple5014]

Please analyze Jodi’s involvement with Adam Steed

[@emmy2417]

you should check out the interviews that Adam Steed has done about Jodi

[@erikablue3757]

I wonder if the videos and random strangers all over the country or world calling CPS actually hindered something being done. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if they got dozens of calls a day or week from people who would nick pick the more minor things they were doing to the kids. And then CPS is like, here we go again, people who just don't like them are trying to get them in trouble... not saying they shouldn't have still caught the truth at some point. Just something to think about.

[@dogtrainer4645]

That's an interesting thought. You'd still think they'd be required to investigate them. I think Ruby was probably really charming and convincing though. 😞

[@dbentleyto95]

The Mormon Stories restraining order conversation is easily found on You Tube.

[@Chippy88]

I don’t know who makes decisions to tell CPS what to do etc. but from what I’ve seen 90% of the time it’s not done right. The kids go right back and then end up getting killed. I mean sometimes I don’t even understand why they even think about giving the kids back.

[@mayloomis9638]

19:30 It's also very traumatic for children to be removed from their parents - unless it's bad abuse that can't be addressed by teaching parenting skills, it's often not the best thing for kids to be removed. Often the best thing for the kids would be for some assistance to the parents and the family, maybe some therapy for all involved, but usually that's not available or provided, depending on the state. -- Also, I get the resistance from parents to be forced into counseling, even if they need it. My brother had multiple really bad experiences with therapists back in the 80s - they knew he was different, and each therapist notes had some different horrible insult for our family and for my brother. (Except the very first one's notes, which were thereafter ignored.) The school system forced him into special ed, and regularly sent him to reform school for the day, as a part of being in special ed. My brother is very smart and was very frustrated in the class. He would rebel in passive aggressive ways, like not looking at the therapist or responding, or talking to himself. He had one of the therapists convinced he was hallucinating because he was telling stories to himself. And then she decided it was somehow because his dad was into Larping. Ridiculous people. My mom eventually had to step in and homeschool him for a couple years until she was able to get him out of that trap. It was abusive and horrible, and it was fully supported by the state. My trust for relying entirely on the state knowing what they are doing and providing people who know what they're doing is not high. I was shocked and angry reading the 'therapist' notes 30 years later. (With my brother's consent.) And he never even got the right diagnosis back then - he was just treated as a problem. He has autism and adhd. Easy. So frustrating. His son has same, but also developmental disorder, perseveration, etc, and needs assistance - not provided by the state. But has CPS been called on them by the school more than once? Yes. My brother started getting severe anxiety just going to the ARD meetings at the school when my nephew was younger. He finally asked me to go with him to help with communication, and that meeting went awesome, and they haven't given him trouble since them, everything is going good. But it still makes me angry that the state just added to what's already complicated and difficult by having no assistance available, only harassment. We've been trying to get them respite assistance for years now with no luck. Sorry, rambling. Just, so frustrating. My nephew is in middle school now though, and is doing really well. Still no respite care though. Ok, Sorry, done now :) I just think it's a mistake to depend entirely on the state to have any idea what they're doing.

[@SavageMinnow]

i'm guessing if DCFS got reports from the older siblings, they did a drive-by and or a check in at their school and went on to "more important cases" when they saw that it was an affluent family. 95% of cases are neglect, where the parent isn't actively torturing the kids. From the outside it looks like they should have enough resources to avoid neglect. I don't agree, but I can see where, if someone had a huge caseload, this would be one that would slip to the bottom of the pile

[@theguest4516]

No, she filmed Eve when she said that prayer. That when was when they were 8 Passangers. It was disturbing and upsetting. This was when people were already questioning their parenting style. I think it would help to have some more background to this incident. Take care and have fun!!! 😎😀😎