Ranting about Female Antagonists for 20 Minutes

[@badrat484]

It’s frustrating that female villains are inherently seen as more sympathetic/redeemable. It’s rare to see a pure evil female villain let alone one that gets her comeuppance

[@animezilla4486]

That goes for the male villains as well

[@gatst7680]

They even did it to Maleficient!

[@animezilla4486]

@@gatst7680 those movies have huge flaws but I did appreciate the main character being cast by Angelie Jolie

[@arsd.711]

That and... It's highly concerning that more of them gets rewritten into a sanitized misguided/they did nothing wrong arc as more remakes/sequel gets made... Why is female characters seen like this? Are we not allowed to just have a badass woman in power at the opposing side without a hamfisted sentimental reason? Not everyone needs a redemption arc to be interesting...

[@silverscorpio24]

The last example I can think of is Mother Gothel

[@pawarl.o.s.881]

When looking at the MCU, I realize the only female villain I actually like is Hela. She's the only female villain where they don't give her a sad backstory or try to redeem her, she's a crazy warmonger from start to finish. It's pretty refreshing when compared to the other female villains in the MCU. Ghost was boring and forgettable. Taskmaster was a travesty. Carly was a psycho that the show tried way to hard to get us to care about. Wanda (I consider her the villain of Wandavision) faces no real consequences for her actions. Nebula at least got the redemption thing right as they worked at that over multiple movies. She was more an antagonist than a villain.

[@amirgarcia547]

Eh, I’d argue that Agatha is more so the villain of WandaVision rather than Wanda. Being that Wanda inadvertently created the Hex and didn’t really mean to trap them there, even if she most likely still enabled it. Whereas Agatha manipulates Wanda and keeps Rambeau from talking sense to her in order to take Wanda’s power for her own and do far more nefarious things with it. Also, even if they weren’t “real,” I would say that Wanda losing Vision again as well as her sons is her facing consequences. Since her biggest obstacle was learning to let go of her grief and trauma, and doing so meant saying goodbye to them for good.

[@thepencillovinglegend5634]

Lmao I literally forgot Ghost existed for like years

[@harlannguyen4048]

I would have liked it if they somehow made it closer to the myths, specifically that Hela is Loki's daughter. Got any ideas on how to incorporate that?

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

@@thepencillovinglegend5634 holy shit me too. I completely forgot about her, and I kinda forgot about the 2nd antman movie in general.

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

@@harlannguyen4048 i didn’t read the comics or the myths so I might not be the best to respond to this but idk specifically what they would do, but all Odin would have to say is that “yeah shes Loki’s daughter” and then Thor would he surprised that loki has a daughter, and then maybe loki would explain to Thor that he didn’t say anything because he once planed to take over Asgard along with her, until maybe loki fucked her over somehow or something. Idk. Just some small pieces of dialogue would have changed since Hela in the movie would be Loki’s daughter instead of his sister, but that’s obvious, and then have loki interact with hela more instead of Thor.

[@cartoonking1789]

I think what makes me absolutely HATE a bad female villain is when the story tries to make us sympathetic towards them or brush all the horrible stuff the did under the rug and give them an undeserved happy ending.

[@joshbruh6584]

Fun Fact : Jolyne is the strongest JoJo because she can perform the 20-Meter Radius part of the 20-Meter Radius Emerald Splash

[@cond.oriano9146]

Id say gironos the strongest but it's just my opinion 🤷.

[@joshbruh6584]

@@cond.oriano9146 Shut up it’s a joke

[@cond.oriano9146]

@@joshbruh6584 I didn't know you didn't have to be rude my God.

[@joshbruh6584]

@@cond.oriano9146 my apologies but it’s literally the most obvious jojoke I have ever made

[@sparknarrater4821]

Because as we know nothing can deflect the emerald splash

[@h_e_salian]

"Jolyne kicks Teela's ass." Glad you addressed this. Any new show with a female antagonist (or main character, really) and I always start with an eye roll since nine out of ten times the writers are just going to make them the same sort of 'strong female character' without actually making them good characters.

[@cartoonking1789]

And usually be redeemed by the end too.

[@amirgarcia547]

Having recently watched Arcane, I’d say Jinx is a female villain actually done very well, and this’s coming from someone who barely knows anything about League of Legends. Being that through both her and Vi’s perspective, you get to actually see how she became the way she is, and how being abandoned by Vi and inadvertently being responsible for the death of her friends truly fractures her mental state. She might be a psychotic and dangerous terrorist who’s killed plenty of people, but she’s also at heart a scared and traumatized girl who the world dealt a bad hand. I also feel much the same about Edelgard from FE Three Houses, where while she does not-so-great things, you can truly see where she’s coming from due to the circumstances that led to her actions and how corrupt the Church and Crest system is. It’s like they took Napoleon Bonaparte but actually made him somewhat sympathetic instead of just a crazy tyrant.

[@kirbyfazendoummoonwalk9214]

Eew the Lol Series

[@gayanudugampola8973]

Jinx and Arcane were awesome. I wish shows like RWBY were made like that.

[@albertocruzado2899]

One thing i like a lot from Arcane is how death, even the death of sone random red shirts, its never treated as cheap. When Jinx kills that group of cops at the end of episode 4, i think, with a total lack of care for their life. How the next episode starts? With a funeral. Their funeral. Everyone reacts to the death of those randoms. Even Silco, the main bad guy, reacts in a negative way, not because of morals, but out of worry for the possible consequences. The series do not cheap away the dead of some uninportant people for the sake of "protecting" the character of Jinx, or for joking around or to provide some minsless action scene without no cate for the implications. At the contrary, they dont fear to make you see consequences.

[@filipvadas7602]

Gender on a character is windowdressing. A lot of writers (especially in stuff like Hollywood and American comics ) seem to struggle to write good villains PERIOD But , sticking to female villains specifically, remember Dolores Umbridge? How she was condescendingly polite, corrupt and vile to the core beneath her cotton candy facade? To the point where most people actually hate her *more* then Voldemort? Like THAT is a good villain... PS: Jolyne kicks Teela's ass

[@ExeErdna]

They're scared to REALLY play with darkness. To have somebody bad for just bad sake and not be a total meme about it. Also they're scared of being labeled "ist" if they made an outright evil woman that stays such. There's no baby or tragic backstory. She was powerful and wanted more that's it

[@johnking9943]

Umbridge was definitely a great example of a pure evil villainess; one we didn't have to sympathize with, one who managed to turn her femininity into a weapon, and one we were more than happy to see get defeated. Not only that, but she did get her comeuppance. No big reveal about a dark and tragic past, no half-baked redemption; just her finding out how stupid it is to insult and attack centaurs. And then when that still didn't teach her a lesson, we got the catharsis of Harry blasting her with a stun spell in the seventh book (complete with a really cool call back to the 'I must not tell lies' thing in the seventh movie).

[@sarafontanini7051]

Jolyne DOES indeed kick Teela;s' ass. She's actually....FUN and isn't a whiny arrogant asshole. Hell, Jolyne can even be WRONG about things (like with her thinking her dad doesn't love her).

[@John-Stark]

Oh GOD, Magic Karen...

[@Mupyeong]

@@sarafontanini7051 I am so put off to female characters at this point I was outright refusing to watch Stone Ocean. Took a lot of nagging until I finally did any by God, what is so hard about writing characters like that? Specifically female ones? Of course I yelled at the screen when she let Romeo sell her out. But she's a stupid Teenager in love. She's naive. But she learns and she grows and she is honestly just a good character. I can't believe how much current media is turning me off to a lot of media because they made me suspicious of it.

[@Force-hiddenmasquerade]

Azula definitely struck me as a great antagonist. I see a lot of people in the fandom wanting her to have a redemption arc, but I’d think that would make her her character better (plus we already have Zuko and Iroh that helps him change his ways and sticks by him) Jolyne kicks all kinds of ass

[@starrsmith3810]

I doubt they can even top Zuko’s arc

[@amedoro_the_owl]

Spoiler... *EXCEPT MADE IN HEAVEN'S*

[@coolkhgirlmadbrit3199]

@@starrsmith3810 in the Comics, Zuko tried to get her help

[@AshXXMayftw]

She isn't really a main villain and more of a villain's partner/sidekick, but Shego from Kim Possible. There's not much to her in terms of backstory, but she's not only a great fighter, actively being Draken's muscle, but she's pretty damn entertaining as well. I don't really need a complex motivation or deep backstory to enjoy a villain. So long as I'm entertained and not bored out of my mind.

[@SouthSideOdaiba]

I like her backstory she was part of a team of heroes and got sick of her brothers. She enjoys being evil and does it for the money. Trying to make a villain to sympathetic is overdone nowadays.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Well, the time travel special does show that she will take over as soon as she's able to while Drakken is degraded to her right hand man

[@liamerolduffy7738]

She has the potential to be a great main villain like bill cipher. As long as she doesn’t get off scot free and just dies an epic death via falling to her death or being incinerated by an overload of her powers, it’ll be the best end for a villainess character like her.

[@user-is9nm4vw8j]

That’s the thing about entertainment nowadays They always try too hard to make everything so “deep” and “complex” instead of just make it interesting

[@lsebastian9086]

@@user-is9nm4vw8j The living paradox off complexity..it ends looking utterly convoluted and needless, while simplicity is much ahrder to do yet can deliver well.

[@jendoe9436]

Know it’s kinda obscure, but I find Mrs. Tweedy from “Chicken Run” to be a great villain. A simple wife of a chicken egg farmer wanting better things and shown to not caring about others. She also has some good humor moments (“Women’s touch. Makes the public feel safer”), unapologetic in wanting her way, and not afraid to get her hands dirty. Her and Ginger squaring off were the highlights of the film. Also enjoy Gladys from “Over the Hedge” that my friends and I describe as ‘HOA Karen’ 🤣 Yeah she doesn’t DO much, Vincent is the more driving threat, and Dwayne the Verminator sets up the threats, but dang it if Gladys doesn’t crack me up anytime she’s on screen! The fact she can look menacing in silk pajamas and fluffy slippers just adds to her charm 👌

[@waseem__600]

I'm surprised people haven't mentioned Azula till now😭. Her character was so well written. One of the best female antagonists for sure.

[@dudemcguy8949]

Avatar is just “good character writing: the show”

[@jackstack2136]

Avatar gets slept on a lot for being viewed in the west as a kid's cartoon but tbh it is genuinely superior to most anime in many ways, such as the writing

[@Danganraptor]

@@jackstack2136 I wouldn't say "most anime." I'd say that it has better writing than "most Western animation."

[@jackstack2136]

@@Danganraptor Nah, it's strictly eastern weeb shit that I was referencing in terms of 'bad anime'. Sorry you disagree.

[@Danganraptor]

@@jackstack2136 I'm truly baffled as to why you think anime is at all "bad."

[@helixsol7171]

"Isn't that gun a little big for a girl?" *Proceeds to offer her a slightly bigger gun.*

[@bryanvilleda3646]

"Jolyne kicks teelas ass" is an understatement, she would absolutly destroy her considering the stunts jolyne can pulloff

[@paradocks23]

Lord Dominator from Wander over Yonder is great for this premise. Especially because she accidentally lifts the primary antagonist that came before her up by demonstrating that he's actually a badass that could've accomplished his goals if he wasn't constantly feuding with the main character. Edit: Forgot the "Jolyne kicks Teela's ass."

[@kevin4061]

Female antagonists according to netflix: I'm gonna destroy the univers.

[@forgetit9421]

"I'm also very sad so you HAVE to forgive me"

[@manolgeorgiev9664]

It's a good thing that not all Netflix shows are like that. There are a few good ones among the sea of trash.

[@alecperdeau650]

*YA and modern cartoons Seriously, Steven Universe and Netflix She-Ra have done nothing but hammer it home that villains want nothing but Universe destruction and always have to hug it out.

[@alecperdeau650]

@@forgetit9421 painfully true

[@sugarzblossom8168]

That's Most villains to be honest

[@JazzSicaa]

How to write a good female antagonist: Just write a good antagonist lmao Also, Jolyne kicks Teelas's ass without a doubt

[@DuneStone6816]

It seems like everyone's afraid to write straight females villains in recent years. They all have to be portrayed victim who was driven to do these by someone else and therefore is not responsible for her evil actions. And half the time they don't even write that well, so you wind up with this psychopath that the narrative goes way too easy on. Ironically, the writers usually still want to have a villain to defeat, so they'll usually have a second, almost always male, antagonist to play the role of irredeemable monster while the girl gets forgiven and becomes an ally.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

You can thank social justice and things like MeToo for that. I always find it kind of hilarious that with things like Feminism they try to make women seem strong and tough, yet they also try to coddle them by making it seem like even when they do horrible shit we should feel bad for them because they were mistreated.

[@utopian4769]

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 Tbf the double standard for female and male villains has always been a thing even before the whole social justice era. They only worsened it. There's always been the idea that women are virtuous and can't do any wrong even in more conservative societies.

[@caldw615]

@@thefanwithoutaface8105 MeToo is a movement to call out sexual harassment and abuse that wasn't being talked about and to encourage victims to not be afraid to talk. What the fuck does that have to do with cartoon villains?

[@WallNutBreaker524]

@@caldw615 maybe , do your research? cuz we arent gonna do it for you :)

[@skittlecornnation4323]

@@WallNutBreaker524 MeToo has actually done a lot of positive things. I was being harassed by a coworker and the movement encourage me and two other people (one a man interestingly) to confront the harasser. The guy ended up being fired, and the office was overall better for everyone. Even in the military, this movement helped, and tons of organizations have better HR and Sexual Assault Prevention departments because of it. Seems like you just wanna stay on Twitter and see people abuse the tag. It's Twitter, no one makes sense on there.

[@absentabsinthe1049]

The thing is it's not even about the villain/antagonist doing evil shit out of hurt and putting their pitypoints above others' (this actually can and does work) It's also that we as the audience are expected to forgive them and also think "It's fine if you do some batshit crazy shit, even in the scale of destroying the universe and causing so much more pain to others, since you've got those victim points and are a woman". It's as if the villain had a coupon filled with "dad beat me" stamps to get 20% off accountability for causing the next genocide. Btw if we're doing this overwhelmingly for female characters, where's guys being redeemed in such a manner? Jolyne kicks Teela's ass since manga and now also in anime format, love her

[@swiftstrike4044]

People give Esdeath a lot of shit but I honestly like her as an antagonist. Her views and morals are inhuman but I like how she's pretty straight forward with her wants and desires. She doesn't make excuses for why she is the way she is and sticks with her guns. Also I admit that she gets free points since I'm a sucker for battle maniacs. Edit: Jolyne kicks fake Teela's ass.

[@lilsmurfy8349]

Forget that comment I deleted, but yeah she was a fine antagonist especially with the flaws she had and her interactions with the characters she's around

[@siredgen4917]

yes, Esdeath is a cool antagonist, but I have a hard time to think of her as a "villain". Too many antagonists in this manga/anime are just doing their job or trying to fix their country nonviolently

[@DarthTalon5]

@@siredgen4917 Esdeath isn't a "just doing her job" kind of antagonist though, she actively was a part of the empires desire for war. She didn't fight on that side because it is "her job" she did it because it allowed her to fight and mercilessly kill whomever she chose and defended it because the empire enabled her to do so.

[@siredgen4917]

@@DarthTalon5 true

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

Esdeath was badass shes was the only cool villain in Akame ga kill

[@JArt872]

Kira Buckland being able to voice Joylne (her favorite character) must've been a dream come true. So happy for her! ^^ I've been following her since Newgrounds as a kid, she come from a long way.

[@RogueFox2185]

Jolyne absolutely kicks Teela’s ass, also get ready for Stone Ocean: Part 2 because let’s just say Pucci becomes a true menace there.

[@solidskullz5736]

Lets see if they believe in gravity

[@austin9568AuraMasterDX]

"Kabutomushi"

[@alpharius2omegaboogaloo384]

(WUB WUB AND WEEEEEEE NOISES INTENSIFY)

[@mreverything7056]

Jolyene vs the Moon Dude was such a great fight. The shit she pulled actually felt like the most genius part of S.O.

[@PlahaKumar]

I agree. Jolyne is one of the best female characters in anime.

[@vla1ne]

The writers of RBWY have made a villain so powerful within the canon of the story, that they now have now way of using her that doesn't immediately raise the basic question: Why not just go and kill them yourself? that is exactly how you _don't_ write antagonists, there are many antagonists who are insanely OP, make regular appearances, but do not raise that question no matter how often they show up (for example, any incarnation of lucifer in SMT showing up), and that is because most writers understand the effectiveness of establishing character. not power, but actual character, they make you understand how someone ticks, and makes you believe they are the type to do whatever they do, before they ever make them do anything of note. this is the problem with people writing villains in general, but it's somehow more pronounced when it's female villains/antagonists, they seem to think that "female" is enough of a character trait, slap on some generic villain actions/tragic backstory, and think that makes them believable. imagine how much better stories like RBWY and the revamped he-man would be if the antagonists were fleshed out properly (not much better considering the state of the protagonists, but baby steps). also, of course jolyne kicks teelas ass.

[@silentecho92able]

You know what they should have done with RWBY main villain. Give her at least a *"limiter"* as to why she rarely or use other people to do her business for her. For example have a curse be placed on her that she can't leave her domain all the time not only was she cursed to live forever but if she leaves the Land of Darkness for a extended period of time she will get weak and vulnerable too mortals especially to the Maidens. Her reasons for wanting too get the relics is to simply lift the curse so she can have her way with the world. An the reason she uses subordinates to claim each relic, was do too each relic is protected by a shield of Pure light by the Gods to destroy all that is pure evil like Salem or Grimm and obtaining each relic she can use the relics powers to become something more powerful surpassing both the God of light & Darkness.

[@dg4545]

Honestly the way women are portrayed in media is often so poor in quality that I honestly think that I can write them better.

[@animezilla4486]

I'm curious what do you think the problem is when it comes to women being presented in today's media these days

[@jackstack2136]

Thinking that women differ much from men as a canvas of characteristics as well as being too petrified by trending social justice bullshit to write a competent, organic individual that isn't a one-dimensional caricature of the opposite

[@germandragon8664]

The issue might be representation.

[@germandragon8664]

@@Pon-PonG9 what I meant by that is that for some, they will supposedly represent a group of people irl. And this is where some snowflakes and a good part of the modern age media gets into play. You can write stupid, awful and downright discriminating traits for a fictional male character, but how does it sound if the exact same conditions are applied for a fictional female character?

[@germandragon8664]

@@Pon-PonG9 no.

[@riotkitty]

2018 Catra = 2021 Evil Lyn. Both females were victims of abuse but they bitched and moaned about not having no power. Because of said tragic backstory, they are immediately excused of any wrongdoing after trying to destroy the universe.

[@Blizz3112]

Thing is, the main issue with female villains is that they are either boring because they don't want to make them nuanced, or they make them too darn sympathetic then they really deserve and it becomes like they are just forgiven BECAUSE they are women... One of my personal favorites of an antagonist is Esuka from Cardfight Vanguard... she was surprisingly well-written and more of an opponent of ideals and the conflict was what both the protagonist and antagonist needed to grow...

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

That's why i love Ragyo from Kill la kill and Medusa from Soul eater so much as they're over the top evil and their show doesn't try to make them seem sympathetic cause they're unredeemable piece of shit

[@caldw615]

Dead By Daylight is notorious for this. Every single female killer character is written to have a sympathetic backstory (except for Amanda Young but she's a licensed character from Saw so not written by them). Meanwhile the male killers have a mixture of sympathetic characters, misguided ones or outright horrible sadistic monsters beyond redemption of any kind.

[@yuukisama2001]

The question I have to ask is when did it all of a sudden be considered a good thing to have people sympathize with villains? They're villains for a reason. Sometimes they have a backstory sometimes they don't. This falls back to the same thing about how females have been represented in media for decades. Which is they can't be looked at being bad in the same way men are. There HAS to be a REASON as to WHY. Male villains are never explained away as to having a reason for why they do what they do and why they should be humanized. Male villains are either just bad because, that's what's expected of males. Even if there was a reason to humanize his villainy it's not accepted. It was that way years yesterday and it's the same today. Females have always been off limits. Even if you make them some crazy horrible villains, there always has to be a reason WHY she became this way. So the media is still going to go that route. It's just a new way of softening the blow. Maleficent didn't get invited to Aurora's event because she was misunderstood. She was left out because she was evil anyway. So she invited herself and caused chaos, just because. Fast forward we're coming up with a backstory as to WHY she turned bad in the first place. And it was the bad evil men who were responsible. But then again it was men, in politics, law, media, etc... that still gave women protections even if it seemed like oppression. Now women get to do what they want, they get to be villains but they want to make being "evil" somewhat Chic.

[@tonysonic456]

I think the whole point with Mother Miranda is to show a once-loving mother turned insane. Heisenberg describes her insanity throughout most of his segment, and there are a few files made by Dimitrescu and Moreau that describe their stance on Miranda and thoughts on present events. By the way, having a good chunk of the story being told through files is a common staple of this series. The main reason that Miranda couldn't resurrect her daughter so easily is that the mold is a very delicate thing. We see in 7 that all those who aren't compatible with the mold get turned into mindless monsters. It also carries over into Village with the Cadou parasties made by the mold. So she had to search her village for those who were compatible and found none. Since Rose was made from mold from Eveline, she became the ideal host. That's my opinion anyway. Regarding good female antagonists, one that comes to mind is Younger Princess Shroob from Mario & Luigi Partners in Time. She's a commanding and intimidating presence whenever she shows up, and even though she does rely a lot on her minions to do her dirty work, she does take matters into her own hands a couple times like when she disguises herself as Peach to infiltrate Peach's Castle which would've worked if not for Bowser showing up and kidnapping her. Granted, in terms of character, there's not much to her, but you don't always need a compelling character. Sometimes you just need an antagonist that's good at their job, and Younger Princess Shroob delivers. Just to show some love, Jolyne kicks Teela's ass.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

With everyone talking about female villains, I'll take this as a good opportunity to ask: does Risky Boots from the Shantae games qualify as a good villain (obviously not good, but you know)? I personally think she does, or at least she DID, before her competency took a nosedive in Seven Sirens... Oh, and Jolyne kicks 'He'la's ass. (edited to fix stupid typing errors)

[@PepperKatLancer]

true but not exackly she never really sees to ends so she never comes up with a back up plan.

[@Wanten-the-stormtrooper]

@@PepperKatLancer True, but she at least fails largely due to Shantae's efforts rather than any screw-ups on her end; until she let herself get KO'd by a paraplegic granny in Seven Sirens while ignoring the open door that was RIGHT BEHIND HER that she could've easily escaped through. She was kinda done dirty in that game...

[@liamstark5982]

Given that Jolyne has a power advantage (a stand), and Teela easily gets angry, I think Jolyne would in fact kick Teela's ass

[@cosmicspacething3474]

4:37 I despise making this comparison, but Hitler had abusive parents too. Not saying everyone like that is gonna turn out like him, in fact the more likely outcome is the abused person locking themselves out of the world entirely out of fear.

[@pascaleelliott63]

That was a quote I heard somewhere "Super Villains by definition are the most motivated people in the world!"

[@charlesruteal9062]

I only remember that line from Nostalgia Critic's Suicide Squad (2016) review, of all places. Timestamp at 24:54 of the official upload, if you happen to not be a fan of him.

[@pascaleelliott63]

@@charlesruteal9062 That's where now I remember! thanks ^^

[@EatWave]

2:05 If only the writers of Netflix's Cowboy Bebop could have heard this advice before they went astray, things would not have had to turn out this way.

[@Ferny48]

A few female villains I can think of that were simple but effective are Carmilla from Castlevania and Larxene from Kingdom Hearts. The Other Mother from Coraline was also a terrifying being that has such a tight grip in the film that I feel if she was written with less effort the suspense wouldn't work.

[@nasnadine3131]

interesting, flawed and entertaining to watch... man i love carmilla

[@sweetcinnamonpnchkin]

And Slan from Berserk.

[@kyleoverton334]

You put her in the opening, but didn't talk about her, but Medusa from Soul Eater is honestly a really good "evil" villian. I love her because she's so simple in her motivation and actions. She wants to release Asura because she's essentially just bored with the status quo and wants to see madness spread throughout the world just cause. And there's nothing really redeeming about her character, if anything as the series goes on the more you know about her the worse she seems. But despite how despicable and horrendous she was, she was still so interesting.

[@Raigan_Avalon]

Honestly, while I really like nuance antagonists, sometimes I want a straightforward and one-note evil villain. Original Skeletor fits this role. Though it's very dependent on the story. In a straight-up Good vs Evil story, the villain doesn't need to be and maybe shouldn't be nuanced. But I always want to see competent antagonists. Also, but request, "Jolyne kicks Teela's ass".

[@ater3678]

You bring up a good point. Skeletor doesn't want to feel good, he wants to feel evil.

[@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588]

We all love Dio because of how ridiculously evil he is. Everything he says and does has this flamboyant flare to it that makes him so enjoyable to watch.

[@TreWilder]

Can we talk about just HOW properly Jolyne would kick Teela's ass? We're talking about a girl who's inherited her father's talent for kicking ass and can do so without her powers, but ALSO has the unique and clever skills of a trickster that her Great Grandfather is known for in BOTH stages of his prime. And she isn't even an asshole that goes looking for trouble, but she's still far from a pushover.

[@MagicalMaster]

Hexadecimal from Reboot was interesting as well. Batshit crazy, crazy powerful and very interesting. She goes good, she goes bad, she goes every which way imaginable and then infects the net because all her flirting with Bob backfired on her and she wanted to make sure that he'd survive in some way. All hail The Queen of Chaos! Edit: Jolyne kicks Teela's ass.

[@LuckoDaStars]

Hexadecimal is without a doubt one of my favorite femme fatales. She represents absolute chaos, at one point she loves you, next moment she want to Slit your throat, and the next moment she wants to just sleep. Chaotic characters can be done very well or they could be done very poorly it's either one extreme or the other which is quite ironic due to the very nature of Chaos

[@LunaP1]

Every time she’s on screen, I know the episode is going to be nuts because of her.

[@Raziel312]

I love the episode where she unleashes a petrification virus on Mainframe.. and wins. She defeats Megabyte. She defeats the good guys. She is about to kill Bob. Only to immediately throw her victory away when Bob points out that achieving final victory means an end to all conflict in Mainframe. Since she lives for chaos, she undoes the petrification of the city with a snap of her fingers and continues her day.

[@MagicalMaster]

@@Raziel312 And that was episode 4 of season 1. It was damn near our introduction to her! The actual introduction being when she effortlessly foils a plot by her brother to kill and the sheer side effects of it have Bob screaming 'Run like you've never run before!' If she could keep focus for two minutes she would win PERIOD. She punks the end boss in Daemon rising once she gets her mojo back and literally infects everything she ever infected in a fraction of the time and undoes the effects of a so called supervirus. Fuck me, Slaanesh, Tzeentch, Nurgle and Khorn can't keep up with this woman!

[@AshatheNomad]

I have a roommate with a “tragic” backstory like Evil-Lyn and will not SHUT THE FUCK UP about wanting the world to end or doing some Thanos shit.

[@misterzygarde6431]

You know, I would like for RWBY to end with Salem getting finally killed by Queen from Deltarune. Other than that, I think Gruntilda from Banjo Kazooie is a good female villain, she’s funny but still threatening and you get a view of how despicable she can be during Tooie when she kills Bottles, abuses Klungo, and turns King Jingaling into a zombie along with the inconveniences she put you through in the first game. Heck imagine if Gruntilda went and mocked the entire RWBY cast Also Jolyne kicks Teelas ass

[@Hansenfmly]

I can imagine Gruntilda bring like: "Do the dishes, clean the sink" "No one said that you should think"

[@otakutoongamer5616]

Gruntilda is also iconic because she's one of the few female villains I know that it's actually allowed to look ugly (as much as she would hate me for saying that) just like many male villains.

[@rosesongoku6980]

As long as she kills Cinder first.

[@IceAssassin25]

Salem being killed by a deltarune character is like having Freddy Fazbear kill Jacob Crow. Pretty much a horrible idea

[@riotkitty]

Working on my own RWBY rewrite here, and while Salem remains powerful, she is hindered by a rapidly decaying body after absorbing too much life with her magic. So she has to sit there, instead of her being simply lazy and bored.

[@masterseal0418]

Examples of good and bad female antagonists: Larxene from Kingdom Hearts is a well written female antagonist, she toys with Sora which made the players love to hate her. She's so cartoonish and over the top! While on the other hand, Cloud of Darkness from Final Fantasy III is just a plot twist big bad rather than Xandr. Hell, in the original she's one of the most difficult bosses in any FF game(unlike other female antagonists who are hard to fight but have great writing like Ultimecia from Final Fantasy VIII). Let's just say Cloud of Darkness did gain character development and personality in the Dissidia titles. And did I mention Onion Knight(Main hero of FF3 rather than Luneth sadly)was voiced in English by Aaron Spann(who played as best boy Joshua in The World Ends With You)while Cloud of Darkness was played by Laura Bailey(played some good roles such as Rise from Persona 4 and Lucina from Fire Emblem Awakening, but had some bad roles such as Abbyzilla from The Last Of Us Part 2).

[@FF-tp7qs]

Does Cloud of Darkness actually count as a female villain? She's really just a cosmic embodiment of Darkness in the form of a giant naked green lady.

[@elespada9058]

While I agree about Larxene, I wouldn't say that Ultimecia had great writing. She's an effective and competent villain throughout the story but she isn't really fleshed out, and she only appears in person at the end of the game. Also the Cloud of Darkness barely qualifies as a character (in the original), let alone a female villain, considering it's an embodiment of the void and nothing else.

[@wakkaseta8351]

Larxene had character?

[@utopian4769]

Larxene literally didn't have a character. She's just snide and arrogant. She's a one dimensional caricature of the typical egotistical anime crazy girl. We don't know anything about her backstory or....pretty much anything outside the named traits.

[@FF-tp7qs]

@@utopian4769 sso the same as the majority of the Organisation 13

[@sarafontanini7051]

its's...pretty weird to have Evil Lynn seemingly set up for a redemption in the first season of Masters of the Universe only to have her backpeal and then seemingly become the big bad in place of skeletor. Like, if you're gonna have her be redeemed anyway why have her backpedal?

[@fishingwithkirby3989]

One of the more interesting female villains I've recently encountered was akane from SSSS Gridman (yes that's the title). She is an introverted nerd with a love of tokusatsu and a good at making sculptures. Long story short she's for the majority of the show suffers from depression and is isolated from the world (it isn't outright shown but a lot of clues are given as to what led her to this point) and was manipulated by an immortal eldritch being called Alexis. Alexis has the power to bring any kaiju she makes to life, with this, she basically creates a whole world as an escape from her reality (basically making her god) where everyone loves her. However, she is still really sensitive and ends up lashing out at anyone who inconveniences her by creating kaiju to go on rampages. The interesting thing is the main protagonists were specifically created by akane to fill a specific need she wanted. One was meant to be a friend she can nerd out with, the other was a reflection of her real self (she made a firm she thinks would be appealing) that she can save like no one saved her, and the final (main character) was meant to love her. However, thanks to gridman, a superhero who Alexis split into pieces along with the main leads choose to oppose her. The thing people that reflected a piece herself stood against her. As they grow stronger and stronger and best each kaiju she throws at them she begins to grow more and more desperate and an originally cold-blooded character begins to be easier to sympathize with. By the final after a failed suicided attempt and stabbing the main character she doesn't have the desire to make kaiju anymore and so Alexis makes her into a kaiju. After she was saved by a kaiju she created that begin to think for itself and become human she was absorbed by Alexis to destroy the world and find someone else like her. Gridman stops that of course but akane ends up returning to her world, the real world. She's a petty villain that both disturbs and made me genuinely feel bad for her. Impressive I must say.

[@Droidking13]

I need to rewatch the series, but I did like her as villain. She was interesting.

[@fishingwithkirby3989]

@@Droidking13 personally, I prefer dynazenon but gridmanhas the better villain.

[@RivanEXT99]

@@fishingwithkirby3989 Gridman has the better villains while Dynazenon has the better protagonists so it evens out.

[@youngbounty1394]

Remember when female villains didn’t need men to step down for them to prove their strength and competence as villains? Those were the good ol’ days :)

[@frop_8750]

The kind of villains i love the most are bastards who are so damn evil you enjoy them getting beaten up, but who also so competent and threatening you lose your shit and panic each second they are on screen. The best example is the father of the protagonist from manhva called "Bastard". He is a maniac who kills women and makes his son help him. He goes 180 from "nice polite businessman" mask to "I am your personal hell" in seconds. He is strong, has a lot of societal power because of his money and the fucker is too damn smart and terrifyingly good at disguise. And the little bit of his human side in his love for his sone makes him even uglier somehow. Love this man. Enjoyed each time he got beaten up.

[@SomethingSomething-MonthOfMay]

Yeah, another good example is Mahito from Jjk

[@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588]

Dio is incredibly, irredeemably evil. But we still love him anyway because he's funnier that way.

[@Ozzieapologist]

@@whoareyoutoaccuseme6588 The thing I love about Dio (and it took me a lot of time to notice it) is that he’s the perfect embodiment of stillness and stagnation: he never outgrows the childish, cowardly and needlessly sadistic behavior he had as a kid and the charisma he shows in Part 3 is just a mask to entice his servants. As he shows several times during the final battle, behind his coolness and his powerful stand ability, Dio is still the same little bully who can only survive by stealing and cheating, unlike the Joestars who, while cunning tricksters in their own right, evolve both in terms of personality and capabilities.

[@moonbeamsun9066]

I haven’t seen the new He Msn season yet but hearing that Evilyn’s parents wanted to eat her honestly cracked me up. Like that sounds like something the original He Man series would put in, that’s so insane.

[@JoaderR]

One that I haven't seen anyone mention is Merlina, from Sonic and the Black Knight. She has the ability to see into the future and all she saw was the inevitable death of the kingdom she loves, this resulted in her developing a severe case of thanatophobia (fear of death). Because of this, she manipulates Sonic into killing an illusion of King Arthur and retrieving the sacred scabbard. With the sacred scabbard in hand, she gains a lot of power and uses it to make the kingdom eternal, where no one dies and everyone can go on living forever. However, this goes against what Sonic always believed in (it was his whole character up until that point, before 2010's came in), which is that life is precious and should be cherished, so you should make the most of it. Even saying: "What's the point of living on forever? That sounds pretty lame." Merlina isn't exactly a "villain", you could even argue that Sonic is (that also goes back to what Sonic said earlier in the game: "I can't be the hero all the time"), but she was a damn good antagonist. If I had to compare her to someone else, then I guess she would be Sonic's Maruki (except that Maruki is better, but you get the point).

[@silversoul5285]

that's a great pick i didn't expect to see here. Seeing Merlina reject the idea of transience gave her a sympathetic motivation without the need of a whole sob story while still condemning the actions she took that drove the kingdom to ruin.

[@sunlitsonata6853]

Of course; but it's kind of miraculous that Sonic had an equivalent character a full decade earlier.

[@JoaderR]

@@sunlitsonata6853 Yeah, of course. Maruki just had a lot more screen time, making it easier to develop him more and get the player more attached to the character. I wouldn't say that it's miraculous that Sonic has a character like that, tbh. Considering how this franchise was like before 2010s, it's miraculous that they DIDN'T do this kind of story sooner and I'm sure that there would be more if people didn't bash Sonic for having stories and characters, instead of just being "Good guy beats bad guy".

[@Nekosage]

Here ya go: Jolyne kicks Teela's ass!!! With Lusamine, I want to know what they were taking when they adjusted her portrayal in Ultra Sun/Moon. Her having frozen Pokemon made no sense in those games.

[@amirgarcia547]

It’s because they tried to rework the game’s story, but since they cranked out the game in a year and handed it to a B-team due to the main team currently being occupied with Sword/Shield, they didn’t bother to recreate the story scenes and just ended up reusing them. :P And this includes Lusamine torturing Nebby in order to open the Ultra Wormhole.

[@Nekosage]

@@amirgarcia547 I believe it.

[@sopadumacacoumadelicia5]

@@amirgarcia547 If they made her partnership, if you will, with the Ultra Recon Squad a bit more deep it would have been awesome. And a bit darker as well, maybe have Guzma or members of the Squad trying to stop her but being powerless in the end. That way you could do something similar to what they did in the first game with Nihilego but with Necrozma.

[@PlanetZoidstar]

Jolyne kicks Teela's ass. I'm glad for this in-depth look into nuanced villains, criticising the modern trend that they HAVE to be sympathetic or relatable to feel "real". That said I miss the days of wholly evil villains because they always steal the show when they are onscreen. Villains who are not just evil but love every second of being evil. I'm writing a story where the main villain is basically Satan (fallen Archangel who hated he wasn't appreciated for his talents) and then goes on to create a lineage of heroes. Not for any sympathetic or redemptive reasons...But because after stealing a mortal's body to achieve this (he was thrown into a void and could only escape by astral projecting his spirit out and to the mortal world) he proved to be utterly disinterested in being a good dad or a good king. He only cared about the bigger picture and as an Angel he doesn't prescribe to 'Human' morality. He's evil in the sense he will step on anyone to get what he wants, he's not a cackling, puppy-kicking villain who is evil for evil's sake...But if kicking a puppy will further his goals, a puppy will be kicked. He's incredibly powerful, cunning, ambitious and resourceful...But his flaw is he doesn't consider the consequences of how his actions hurt those around him. So this tends to come back to bite him when he overlooks how badly his negligent parenting affects his children, who ultimately grow up to overthrow him. He's not stupid or shortsighted, but he's so used to being untouchable that he rarely considers any Mortals could even hope to challenge him. So when it happens he's blindsided. He doesn't see his goal as righeous or moral, he doesn't see himself as some misunderstood hero, but he gets enraged if anyone manages to interfere with his plans or fail to show him respect.

[@CammyFrostbite14]

Is this story anywhere where we can see it? It sounds like an interesting premise

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@CammyFrostbite14 So far it's a WIP and not really online, but I am glad to hear you're interested. The closest I could think to a villain who is like mine would be Zamasu from Dragonball Super, except not written terribly. Zamasu was written to be this villain who saw himself as a righeous saviour of the universe..But his planned involved genoding EVERYONE that wasn't him. Including all the other Gods. He's still your sneering, sadistic, callous villain, so he doesn't BEHAVE different from any other Dragonball villain, but he doesn't see himself as a villain. Where with my villain his only righeous indignation is the heavenly higher ups didn't appreciate him and when he went behind their backs to try and surprise them with a new innovation (the creation of Nightmares as he was the God of Dreams), he was put on trial and ultimately condemned and banished. So he feels he was unfairly judged and cast out, but it's more a matter of ego and pride than feeling any moral outrage or like he was in the right.

[@elusivemayfly7534]

This sounds compelling! Octavia Butler’s “Patternist” series might be a good source of inspiration for you. The antagonist can only survive by possessing people but “uses them up” pretty quickly and has to move on. He seeks out people who show glimmers of special power and begins a “breeding” program to create a super race. You could just read the first book in the series, “Wild Seed.” Butler actually wrote it last, and it’s the best of the series, in my opinion at least. Thanks for reading my ramble. Hope you’re enjoying your writing!

[@PlanetZoidstar]

@@elusivemayfly7534 I'm flattered to hear that! I actually did consider something similar, the main villain exerting stress on his posessed body and needing to transfer to one in time. Like the Patternist antagonist he also wants to create a lineage of powerful offspring to expand his influence and reach. You're welcome and I am glad to hear your feedback!

[@LycanMOON]

(Note I’ve only gotten to volume 6 and even still that was like thanksgiving of 2019 when I binged watched rwby) but I really liked where they weee going for emerald.the fandom all expected her to be redeemed,and while I haven’t been keeping up with the show I do plan to watch it sometime again.unfortunately I’ve seen how they handled emeralds “redemption” and i hate it a lot.my theory is that emerald would of fought team cofe in vacuo,and she ends up being redeemed by them in the end,but the show has just been getting lazier and lazier

[@mikerueffer579]

Salem is just another example of the RWBY writers not thinking things thorough or including a story element because it was in a show they liked but not understanding what makes the story element work. like it's clear they want her to be their fire lord Ozai/Emperor Palpatine. but Ozai and Palpatine work because of their lack of presence in the story and their simple motivations they're less characters and more forces of evil that need to be stopped. If you show too much of them they lose their mystique and if you develop them too much they fall apart as villains.

[@elespada9058]

I think Salem worked as a villain at the end of season 3 and after, right until the Exposition Dump episode. People made theories about what she could be : a corrupted huntress, an ancient grimm that took human form, a goddess... Today the only good thing about her backstory is that Cinder's is worse.

[@PlahaKumar]

Salem could've been one of the best characters in the series. But the writing really marred that potential she has.

[@Troll_vs.]

They wasted Salem just like dam near EVERY THING ELSE IN THE SHOW! She's not even scary or threatening. Like what is her goal? Why does she do what she does? Why didn't she use magic during that fight and not fucking stretchy arms?

[@KeeKage37]

You can add Thanos to things there trying to associate with Salem. Difference is. Thanos actually took care of things himself. While Salem can’t be bothered despite being so all powerful.

[@PlahaKumar]

@@KeeKage37 Thanos backed up his words by killing many of the Avengers in Infinity war. Salem got made into a joke in her first fight scene.

[@ARDIZsq]

Man, I hated what they did to Lusamine in USUM. I really liked her bat shit crazy obsession with Ultra Beasts in the original, to the point of her literally letting one take over her mind and body. (Also, Jolyne kicks Teela's ass)

[@HeyRavenousRaven]

We live in an era where most of the heroes and protagonists act more like villains and the antagonists and villains can get away with the most heinous things because they had parents who tried to use them as emergency food supply. I really want unapologetic heroes who are heroes and unapologetic villains who are villainous to the core again. So tired of everything being ideologically driven because of message or even then, not even trying to write characters anymore. Thanks ESG scores! Also Jolyne kicks Teela's ass.

[@PlahaKumar]

You mean with something like the recent volume of RWBY for example right?

[@anotherrandomguy8871]

Same I want to see a superhero who doesn’t care about the villains sob story since they still killed a bunch of people, and the hero beats the villain anyways and gives them the prison sentence that they deserve, or straight up kills the villain because they were too dangerous. Almost like how Batman does, but the hero will make sure that villain won’t keep hurting people.

[@KCruzer]

"Jolyne kicks Teela's Ass" Sheesh, understatement of the century. Even though the original manga for Stone Ocean came out in 1999-2000, it still proves that Japanese writers still do a better job than Western writers.

[@geardog24]

Queen from Deltarune is the only villain that should get a pass for her evil deeds.

[@xord6286]

I mean every villain in UT/DR is pretty grey and if they're not they got backstories(except for King but he becomes more comedic in chapter 2) that you can sympathize with, and it works with the themes of the games

[@dqc7179]

She's such a fun villain

[@utopian4769]

Queen isn't really a villain, she's an antagonist. She's not evil in any way. She's just misguided in how she tried to solve Noelle's problems for her, instead of letting her grow the confidence within herself to take control of her own life.

[@cervanera2228]

I gotta say this because I'm watching the show for the first time in this period: Demona IS a great villain, I'm a bit sad you don't talked about her. Like, she is complex and symphatetic, but still horrible? No one in their right mind would say she's not wrong, even if at times you can feel sorry for her. I think she's even better than Azula, because with her, you can say she's still a child that got manipulated by her family (which is true but I don't see it as an excuse, btw), while Demona... well, she's simply blinded by her hatred. She had multiple chances to change, but never took it, and she blames humans for literally everything that went wrong in her life, when it's mostly (if not all) her fault. Truly a tragic character.

[@TuShan18]

Your videos about female characters and now this one makes me like Arcane more. Jinx is a murderous maniac, and needs to be punished for her crimes, but I also understand why she's crazy, and I can't help but sympathize with her. It's possible to have both. Also, Jolyne kicks Teela's a**.

[@TuShan18]

@@EnigmazGuide I’m into psychology myself (not professional, I’m just fascinated by the subject) so that’s why I love the show and it’s characters. I wouldn’t be surprised if they had psychologists in the studio giving them advice on how to write them.

[@poolturtle5772]

I want Jinx to die. I just have this hatred of her for the crimes she’s committed and what she’s done to everyone.

[@TuShan18]

@@poolturtle5772 and I like that no one in the show besides vi (kinda) thinks jinx is worth saving. So it kinda seems like the show is saying it’s not wrong to feel that way. She is a monster, no one can doubt that. At least that’s how I saw it.

[@poolturtle5772]

@@TuShan18 absolutely, the whole thing ends up being how Jinx is a monster now, and that hating her is reasonable (even in the end where she gave up on Vi’s pleas. Now we know why Fiddlesticks in game constantly says “your fault”

[@TuShan18]

@@poolturtle5772 the nuance of the show is why I love it so much. Even characters that can be considered to have the moral high ground such Heimerdinger has serious flaws. There’s a lot to discuss about almost every character, and everyone might be right in feeling the way they do. Heck, even singed is sympathetic in some ways.

[@Arexion5293]

You want a list of good female villains/antagonists? Here's some that come to my mind: - Kreia, KOTOR 2 - Alice Twilight, No More Heroes 2 - Mem Aleph, Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey - The Red Queen, American McGee's Alice - Shodan, System Shock 1 and 2 - Glados, Portal 1 and 2 Also Bowling licks teal Ah's as. I dunno, I only listened to the video.

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

Jolyne kicks Fake Teela's ass. Also haman karn is a good femal antagonist.

[@PlahaKumar]

Virgin Teela vs the chad Jolyne.

[@flamestoyershadowkill]

@@PlahaKumar original series, 2002, and other versions of teela actually decent. Revelations is the shitty exception.

[@bhiett7448]

I honestly personally liked what they did with Cruella, didn't feel like they were purely just trying to create sympathy with her. While yeah it did kinda feel like it at some points, it felt to me more like it was just a in-depth look about how she came to be who she was in Dalmatians and how she slowly basically turned into the person she was trying to overcome throughout the movie. Just my personal though lol

[@TheTrainDude48]

Jolyne absolutely kicks Teela’s ass. But yeah, why can't have good female antagonists that aren't redeemed so quickly or has very little reasoning to do what they do.

[@HolyknightVader999]

Regarding Salem and her laziness, at the very least, when other dark lords don't enter the fray, it's for a reason. Emperor Palpatine needs to run the government, the whole Empire would literally fall apart without him. Sauron is a disembodied spirit. The Lich King is a disembodied ghost trapped in a block of ice. Even Bowser is running a kingdom and an occupation force. Whereas other dark lords and master villains enter the fray when they can to ensure their success: villains like Megatron, Kerrigan, Haman Karn, Arthas Menethil, Count Dooku, and Darth Vader fight on the front lines. The dark lords who hide behind goons do so for a reason, and there are dark lords who fight on the front lines because they can bring their powers to bear on the enemy, and they can ensure the mission's success.

[@Leukodin]

Jolene kicks Teela's ass. That said, the majority of the characters in He-Man felt pretty one-note, but you skipped over an important bit of the Evil-Lyn "arc". She didn't try to kill everyone because she had a shitty childhood, she tried to kill everyone because she was given ultimate power and didn't connect with anyone in the universe. From a gamer perspective, she got tired of playing Skyrim, so decided to kill everyone for fun and uninstall. At least, that's how I interpreted it.

[@MmeCShadow]

"They have to stand alongside their male counterparts... WITHOUT dragging them down." You could've stopped right there. This is always the quick fix for an amateur writer trying to make their female characters (pro or antagonist) better-- not by actually making them more menacing or powerful or imposing or cunning, but just making everybody around dumber and weaker so they look better by comparison without actually being better. (It's not limited to women, but usually when men are propped up it's by pulling powers of their ass. Different ways to approach bad writing.) Although having said that, it would be pretty funny if a villain's power WAS just exuding an incompetence field.

[@Hamantha]

Ah man there are a lot of problems with Female characters huh? That’s just upsetting that there has to be this stigma around it. Idk if I’m finding the words for what I mean.

[@Orange_Swirl]

Stigma: "1. a set of negative and often unfair beliefs that a society or group of people have about something the stigma associated with mental illness = the stigma of mental illness the stigma of being poor = the stigma of poverty There's a social stigma attached to receiving welfare." Does this definition properly convey the meaning you were trying to send, OP? If not, I'd recommend using Reverse Dictionary, which allows you to find a word by inputting a meaning in its search bar, so you can better convey the message you're trying to send.

[@fduranthesee]

@@Orange_Swirl nah nah nah I think he was tryna say “Mary Sue,” or _allude_ to it. PS: *having a big vocabulary doesn’t mean you’re smart.*

[@Hamantha]

@@Orange_Swirl thank you I’ll check out reverse dictionary, sounds like exactly what I need

[@Hamantha]

@@fduranthesee no he pretty much got it

[@MayHugger]

@@fduranthesee They literally just copied from the dictionary dude, get over it.

[@Bopperann]

If Kevin Smith wanted his "story" to be "metal," Skelegod wouldn't have "powered down," regardless if the snuggle struggle might kill Lyn.

[@concordiaharmony2302]

If I can reiterate my favored antagonist from Twitter, I still adore Apollyon from For Honor. The warlord of the Blackstone legion with a rather unique take on survival of the fittest. It's not so much a matter of "The weak fear the strong" as much as it is "Those that can fight SHOULD to their dying breath." Gaining this morality from spite towards a lawbringer that let her village get destroyed by a Viking raid, leaving her as the sole survivor as a young child. Her entire purpose is inciting a grand war between the 3 main factions of the game, not to conquer it for herself, but rather ensure that the wolves of the world don't grow fat and weak in the complacency of peace. And her actual methods of ensuring that are actually genius. Absorb all the other legions of knights into the Blackstones, destroy an important Viking storehouse but intentionally leave behind enough good for one or two clans to force them to fight for what remains, kill the Emperor of the Samurai and leave a power vacuum, forcing them to fight one another for leadership, leave Samurai equipment in a weak knight outpost for vikings to find and thus inspire the idea for them to invade their lands, even outright welcoming when all three factions converge on her castle for their respective vengeance and conquests.

[@John-Stark]

Yeah, Apollyon was one hell of a villain...

[@thebaron2277]

How could such a rushed and short campaign have a villian who is that good

[@concordiaharmony2302]

@@thebaron2277 simple: You put alot of effort into the writing. ^^

[@Rosa-he6xb]

Just to say I love your video as always and I hope in the future we get more female villains that are either evil for a reason that doesn’t make them sympathetic nor gives them a chance at redemption or just more incredibly funny female villains like Queen from Deltarune. Also while I’m not there yet to stone ocean, I just know that Jolyne can kick Teela’s ass without needing to life her fists.

[@Ozzieapologist]

A character who I recently found myself enjoying is, rather surprisingly, Big Mom from One Piece. Her body-type and personality usually characterize joke villains who are rather easily disposable (especially in shonen manga), and yet she's astoundignly strong (as befitting one of the Yonko), menacing and even pretty devious and manipulative; her flaws are believable and her strenghts don't need to deminish other characters's and, most importantly, she has an interesting backstory that gives depht to her without justifying any of her wrongdoings. Oh, and Jolyne kicks Teela's ass.

[@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr]

I like Carrot and Boa Hancock more in the story of One Piece, but I have no problem with the fanbase of Big Mom even though I myself am not really that big of a fan of her character in the story.

[@Ozzieapologist]

@@RoronoaZoro-ur6hr I also really like Hancock and I can’t wait to see more of her! Carrot is...nice. Not one of my favorites but still ok. I really enjoyed that scene where she turned Sulong for the first time

[@shadowofthenorthstar989]

Big mom>>> He-vilyn

[@sarafontanini7051]

Big Mom from one piece remainds my favourite female villain of recent years. She gets complexity in her backstory but none of it is used to EXCUSE her actions and she remains a terrifying, psychotic monster who sees her children as tools and raises them to be as cutthroat and vile as possible.

[@thefanwithoutaface8105]

Hell her backstory shows she was always somewhat evil. Her hunger pangs were so intense she willingly murdered and destroyed people for fun. While it is shown she is capable of kindness, she ultimately decided to be selfish thus I feel no sympathy for her.

[@mikeval1525]

Jolyne kicks teela’s ass times a million.

[@neonnwave1]

My guess is that the reason Salem is lazy is because she knows she doesn't have to do much since, as she said, time is on her side. She is immortal so she could just wait things out if she wanted to and not have to do much. Why she needs people is beyond me though one could guess she doesn't have all the details, such as locations, of the things she needs to accomplish her goal so she has people gather intel for her. She also needs someone to collect the power of the maidens since she herself cannot do it... for some reason. That's all I can think of. Everything else you said is correct though. She's not a good villain. Also, I think Dimitrescu should have been the antagonist of RE8. As you pointed out, she was more of a mother figure, had more of a presence and she was very intimidating. She easily could have replaced Miranda's role in the story.

[@LunaP1]

*JOLYNE KICKED TEELA’S ASS!!* The Shadow Queen and the Shroob Royal Sisters. They were insanely destructive and didn’t care about their own subordinates’ lives. Shadow Queen went as far as devour the audience to replenish her health (not to mention she was possessing Peach’s body the whole time since she was freed) and the Shroob Sisters invaded the Mushroom Kingdom in the past and nearly wiped out everyone.

[@AmaryInkawult]

The Boss, holy shit you picked a good example. She is one of the antagonists I shed a tear for when beating her in Snake Eater. Every other Cobra I felt elated to defeat, but her... It really felt like killing one of Big Boss' family with how they wrote everything.

[@keicamboom9915]

Beatrice from Umineko When They Cry. Well, female antagonists in this games are great in generall.

[@venor2612]

Erika my beloved

[@keicamboom9915]

@@venor2612 Erika fan myself.

[@keroroplatoon3216]

I love Steven Universe with all my heart, but the Diamonds were a massive letdown as villains. I actually think Blue Diamond was handled the best. She’s very emotionally charged, and in a show where appealing to emotions is a massive theme, it makes sense why she of all the Diamonds turned a new leaf. Yellow is also understandable just from the viewpoint of she loves Blue, and although she puts on the airs of ruthless military commander, when it comes to her family, she’ll go where they go. White on the other hand, made no sense to me how they handled her. The one who started it all, the one who created the culture on Homeworld, she should’ve been THE antagonist that proves “not everyone is even willing to have their emotions appealed to.” She should’ve been the one that they had to truly fight and defeat. Maybe it could’ve been a plot point with the whole shattering thing, like Steven knows he has to actually fight her, but he wants to find a way to just poof her and put her away, not shatter her. I dunno, I just think about the Diamonds handling a lot.

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

That's why villains that go that far should usually off themselves either in a heroic sacrifice or as an act of atonement. Because even if the protagonist is okay with their redemption there is too much bad blood for anyone else to be like "yeah he's alright now".

[@chongwillson972]

@@mikzpwnz_3199 i dont know that can create a overall great storyline about atonement rather then just write the character out of the story

[@mikzpwnz_3199]

@@chongwillson972 a good way for that is time and concealment. Make the redemptive villain work within the shadows as to make it that someone is helping the heroes but they (and the audience) do not know who. Then after like 2-3 seasons in the finale they make a grand entrance. The trick is that the ways they help fit their methodology beforehand or its already established it's within their power to do it in that way. Just make sure If someone already suspects it, you continue on anyways. To try to subvert the theory otherwise turns to disaster. What's the harm in letting people who caught on have the satisfaction of having their theory confirmed? Though the best way to go about any redemption arc is to make it sincere as possible.

[@BurningAzure]

A bad example is Cocolia from Honkai Impact 3rd. She feels inconsistent in recent chapters with giving her positive traits inconsistent to her previous character and anything else she did as an early antagonist was done better by Otto who himself has earned his spot as one of Honkai's best villains and most hated characters (intentionally of course).

[@daneverharen1694]

Bad game

[@BurningAzure]

And Raven from the same game is another good example. Though not an outright villain, she's honestly a great example of a morally grey character done right.

[@yeahyeah9776]

I started playing HI and Im still depressed from a certain character death

[@BurningAzure]

@@yeahyeah9776 Himeko?

[@yeahyeah9776]

@@BurningAzure Yup

[@ellem4069]

Jolene kicks Tesla’s ass! Also, really liked the video 😃 I always enjoy hearing your thoughts and opinions on various topics

[@bearberserker]

Jolyne kicks Teela's ass. I wanted to say that a good female antagonist would be Harp Note from Megaman Star Force. She was manipulated by an alien to fuse with her to get away from her manager and get back to playing music like she did for her mother rather than just for her manager's won't of profit.

[@zookeeps1340]

Junko Enoshima, Azula, and Kirari Momobami. Are really good villains they never actually excuse what these women did they may have provided backstory but Junko being a terrorist and abuser is never excused, Azula being a murderer, attempted murderer and mental abuser is never excused, and Kirari playing everyone in Hyakou Private Academy and even willing to let her friend/secretary (Sayaka) fall to her death, just for a gamble. I love these women as villains because they arent inherently sympathetic, of course sympathetic villains CAN work (such as Tier Harribel) but I dont like the entire idea of female villain = sympathetic, like i mentioned some can be sympathetic and done well such as Tier Harribel but she has actual reasons as to that and not just "she is a woman"

[@WarmLillie]

Lusallie: “When I am evil, I have fun being evil.”

[@riotkitty]

Oh don’t even get me started on Lusamine. To this day she is the only Pokémon antagonist who is defeated for you. The brain damage she took after Necrozma dropped her out of the sky affected the entire cast, because afterwards no one remembers she has actually been awful the entire time. What’s worse is not that she changed, it’s that she is literally the same character up until that moment. It creates major whiplash.

[@SilentTheViewer]

Jolyne kicks Teela's ass for sure I despise Kevin Smith for what he did to the series and cannot stomach the fact that so many people defend his garbage "subversion of expectations"

[@Tailikku1]

All I can say from your mention of Demona, you have good taste Kamen

[@ilyamuromez6412]

Ironic how people hated Jolyne back during stone oceans manga run because she was essentially blaming Jotaro for most of the first act of the story.

[@shikiira4185]

Asajj Ventris from star wars the clone wars(2008). Her story and motivations are all just great. It's a tragic villian done right. Spoilers ahead. Like all tragic villians, Ventris had a tragic backstory. As an infant she was stolen away into slavery and was raised by a "kind" master who actualy manipulated her into becoming a weapon. At the age of six, her war torn planet she was on killed her master and was found grieving by a jedi. This jedi took her in as a padawan. (unbeknownst to her, it was actually the jedi who killed her master). Years until adulthood, the jedi trained her. Together they attempted to free their world from pirates and warlords. It all came to a head when Ventris and her master were fighting pirates. During the fight, the jedi was shot and killed. Devastated by the loss, she lashed out in rage and killed her jedi master's murderers. She would then go on to slay all but one of the warlords on her planet. The last one she failed to kill, was captured, and forced to fight in a gladiator arena. Count Dooku witnesses one of her arena battles which lead him to freeing her and taking her on as a sith apprentice. Of course, he uses and emotionaly manipulates her to be the perfect pawn to which it obviously and eventually disgard. After being discarded, Ventris attempts to take revenge on Dooku by teaching and joining up with her own apprentice, but this backfires. Eventually she just becomes a bounty hunter who later ends up aiding Ahsoka Tano in proving her innocence when she was framed by aiding her in the search for the real criminal. All in all, Anything Ventris does as an antagonist is done because she was literally raised and taught to and has a whole lot of built up rage and anger from all her loss and negative influences. Later she learns to let go of that anger and even eventually falls in love with someone who'd she do anything for.

[@Jacob_G9]

Funny how Fire Emblem Three houses is in the description, Rhea and Edelgard fit the role of Female antagonists pretty well, Edelgard more so if you ask me. Also, YES, Jolyne Kicks Teela's Ass!

[@Danganraptor]

Personally, I don't believe challenging the status quo is inherently evil. Plunging the country into war, however...

[@raynavillus4927]

Personally, I love what they did wild Evil Lyn at the end and I do like her hair too. The muscular women make up for the mistakes that were made on my part. That said, they could have done better with Evil Lyns back story, maybe give us an episode about it to better flesh it out...

[@delicatesmilesys]

Honestly having videos like this helps me flesh out my writing and how I portray good characters without supposed wokeness and actually write villain characters. I have hope maybe my writing can help change things around other than I do enjoy female villains since women can be cruel and manipulative but nowadays women characters are just washed down and don't actually supposedly empower women. I am just a writer who just wants to try their best to improve their skills but some days I do have hope maybe one day we can have a show without wokeness or pandering and actually have women characters that actually are shown to be human and not supposedly women can't do no wrong characters. Female villains are just as best as male villains. The same as female heros can be good as male heros. I just thought to put my input on this matter. Still I think MLP has some good female villains when it aired Like Queen Chrysalis or even the dazzlings which the dazzlings are just very unrated and weren't really treated well like it felt like they never truly reached their full potential.

[@OmniDan26]

I hate how in isekai manga the woman villian will send ten dudes to kill the mc right in front of him and he has no problem killing the guys, but 8/10 times he lets the woman go. It's so annoying. like my guy, she just sent people to kill you, if you let her go shes gonna do it again.

[@barrybend7189]

Good antagonists in videogames: Wisper from Fable, Airy and Anne from Bravely Default series, Viola from Zone Of the Enders, Pandora from Megaman ZX series, Kreia from Kotor 2 and lastly the queen from Sudeki.

[@magmos6346]

Whisper was more a rival than an antagonist.

[@barrybend7189]

@@magmos6346 antagonists are rivals but not all rivals are antagonists.

[@leontrotsky9563]

@@barrybend7189 Not all antagonists are rivals. You need to be somewhat on equal footing and/or trying to accomplish a similar goal to the protagonist to be a rival. Dark Lord villians, for example, aren't rivals to the protagonist.

[@PancakemonsterFO4]

Oh F those asshole fairies, poor emperor guy didn't deserve to get betrayed just like Tiz and Friends

[@jakem.3980]

As someone who wants to get into making a story or something like a webtoon series this video has been really helpful. I will definitely be watching more of your videos for advice and so I know what not to do with how I make characters

[@bosunbill9059]

While I agree most of this video, Cruella from Live action is something I disagree with because live action Cruella unlike many Disney remakes, isn't the same Cruelly and isn't a villain. In the movie she was just written as one by some Journalist. And does have a legitimate goal and character foundation. Live Action Cruella and Old Cruella is just like comparing Joaquin Phoenix`s Joker with Dark Knight Rises Joker, you can't as they are not the same. They are just different interpretations of a Character or different versions. You can judge them individually, but comparing them is wrong.

[@HolyknightVader999]

I remember the day Evil-Lyn was descended from a powerful sorcerer, and when she joined up with Keldor for teh evil lulz.

[@holty1314]

Strong female characters exist Disney: ‘We can make a sh*t tone of money out of this’

[@chibirisa2075]

My own take on Lusamine cause I have SO MANY strong feelings about her character change. I really don't like how people try to say USUM Lusamine was actually a "proper" villain solely because she wasn't being controlled when that was never the case (far from it). The fanbase can argue night and day about whether or not she's redeemable until the Milktanks come home, but fans like myself just CANNOT in good faith say that being in control of Nihilego suddenly means she wasn't responsible for any of the action she took in SM. Would I have liked to see her 'after treatment' redemption? Hell yeah, but I'd prefer it in a setting where her actions meant something and not that "it's okay she was just sad her hubby was taken, she said sorry :(" that people these days think constitutes as redemption.

[@sonic30655]

jolyne kicks teela's ass. no truer words

[@novavera5323]

I was initially worried going into this video from the point of a storywriter (mainly because I have a main female antagonist and was wondering if I was taking it the wrong direction). This video and the comments definitely helped steer me in the right direction, so thanks!

[@forgetit9421]

From resident evil I really like Alexia and Alex, even if Alexia could have appeared more in CV(a remake could solve that) but I think her background is interesting and I really like how in rev2 her plan half fails and she ends uo turning into a hideous monster for a while