2023 Honda Civic Type R | A Mix of Pleasure and Pain

[@EthanSh1n]

Thanks for addressing the mark up issues. People need to hear it. As long as people keep paying mark ups, dealerships will keep charging. It’s simple, just say no to the mark up and move on. Just be patient guys

[@ericpromisco2213]

Exactly. People just want to be first and have no patience. I went to one of my local Toyota dealerships to discuss a GR Corolla and they wanted 10k over sticker. I just laughed in his face, refused and left.

[@poultrylord7300]

FOMO too strong, our monkey brains are easy to manipulate.

[@huehuehue-x3c]

@@ericpromisco2213 at this point it has nothing to do with "being first". The FK8 Type R sold with huge markups everywhere until they finished selling them. The trend will no doubt continue for this generation. It is ridiculous to spend 55k+ on what is, at the end of the day, a Honda Civic that you will drive to and from work and to the grocery store. There are sooooo many better cars that you can buy for that money.

[@ericpromisco2213]

@hyphur I actually saw a few FK8s selling at MSRP when they were new around Chicago. Definitely harder to find, but there are dealers out there who aren't scum bags.

[@williammorales3859]

@@huehuehue-x3c holy cow you can get a mk5 supra for that money, or a mustang gt/ camaro ss for lower, or even an m240i.

[@DoubleOSevan]

The review we've all been waiting for. The markup we've all been dreading.

[@RichardJoashTan]

And the buying I've been planning and waiting for.

[@TheBreakfastLover]

Y'all complain about dealer markups but it's just the free-market at work.

[@subvet3668]

I hear ya. When the CTR came out initially it was 10K over the Si, now 15K over and then add in the insane mark-ups which just sucks.

[@MLeeder53]

I am getting mine through my work below sticker, but i have signed an agreement that i cant sell it for at least a year. I am fine with that lol :)

[@agenericaccount3935]

@@TheBreakfastLover Not really a free market when dealers are granted a legislated monopoly on new vehicle sales.

[@michaelw2263]

It's that golden age of insane cars-- Civic Type R, Golf R, GR Corolla, WRX, GR86, Nissan Z -- but also the dark age of inflation and dealership mark ups

[@ronnie_5150]

I bought a new NISMO Z in 2006. $3000 knocked off sticker, and I STILL thought I was getting ripped off. If anyone said back then that in 16 years, they'll be charging thousands over MSRP and you'll be on a more than a year waiting list, people would have said you were crazy.

[@kevinmcd112]

I know this comment is from 4 months ago, but that was right around the time the market started coming down, because the new models were hitting the market and the used cars were still overpriced. I went to Honda for an Accord and asked the sales guy, "Why would I pay more for a used 2022 when I can still order a brand new 2022 from Honda where no one has farted in the seat for $5,000 less?" Needless to say, he didn't have an answer, nor did he get my money.

[@Mantenner]

It's funny how the two seem to coincide. Basically the same thing was happening the last two times there were golden era's of cars, the early to mid 90s and the early to mid 2000's.

[@f181234]

“In the US direct manufacturer auto sales are prohibited in almost every state by franchise laws requiring that new cars be sold only by dealers” This is the problem dealerships have way too much power in the US causing all these ridiculous markups the Laws need to be changed.

[@MrDzala]

what is the purpose of that law? I don't see how that benefits the consumers or the manufacturers.

[@future62]

Well it's either markups or likely waiting for 3-4 years for an at MSRP order. Until the supply chain gets back to normal shit's gonna suck.

[@ethereous]

@@MrDzala It's historical to begin. It's a law that's been around since like, the 50's.

[@mrgreen9086]

@@MrDzala it doesn't

[@pirihern9329]

Greed

[@TheTopher]

Nailed it on all the points! Btw I did confirm that the pedal dance to turn off VSC outside of +R mode works on the FL5. The sequence is: 1. Turn off e-brake and turn ignition on 2. Press and hold brake pedal, press VSA off, then VSA on 3. Put e-brake on, release brake pedal, then VSA off, VSA on 4. Press and hold brake pedal, VSA off, VSA on A little tedious but ideal if you want to track the car in individual mode with everything off👍

[@charlesdr1981]

Hi Topher,love your pov videos.

[@bootypirate69]

Love your videos, I hope you get bigger in the future

[@rustyt115]

Final suspension tuning for this generations Type R was modeled after Turbowski’s “intimidator” Sebring.

[@MrIlovebmw86]

Omg please link that video. Sounds funny

[@okniceguy]

I miss Sir Turbowski.

[@YOSHIMOTO_HI_SPEED]

I’m so glad that he mention the dealerships and the ridiculous mark ups crazy that the civic type R went from being a nimble little track beast that came at a relatively affordable price, and now it’s almost the same value as a used Ferrari testarossa

[@janoycresnova9156]

What happened to Turbowski? Used to love watching him in the reviews. He just completely disappeared few years ago.

[@MrIlovebmw86]

@@janoycresnova9156 In a recent liveshow mark said He’s doing his own thing and He doesn’t really have interest in the new cars

[@jamespaul1835]

I got my 2021 at MSRP and if I get the newer one some day I will do the same. Never buy anything too many people want at once. Patience is a virtue.

[@ericHHII]

How’d you do that?

[@MrIlovebmw86]

This is the last type r with internal combustion. You will never get it at msrp. Its going to appreciate like crazy

[@agr_]

@@MrIlovebmw86 a civic appreciating? Lol

[@alsayedfakhri4597]

@@agr_ quite common now - the Type Rs at least. Old EG9s are stupid money, FK8 LE and EP3 are creeping up in price again.

[@MrIlovebmw86]

@@agr_ yes

[@ValkenDnB]

This is going to be the best review out of everyone. I don't even have to watch it know. The one and only channel that does a deep dive on the suspension, engine, chassis, and driving characteristics in the segment. Cheers my friends.

[@NaijaBull]

Throttle House is up there as well

[@noobatnothing]

@@NaijaBull nowhere close on technical journalism… savage geese talks to the engineers twice as much as any other journalist imho because it shows, they address every subtle nuance in videos

[@recursion.]

@@NaijaBull dont ever mention that word here ever again!

[@n9athan]

At $44k the FL5 is already on the edge of what would be considered a fair price, any markup would be insane.

[@The_Noticer.]

Apparently at the dealer you're presented with 75K....

[@lukewalker1051]

Elantra N even with dual clutch can be had for mid 30's which is closer to a fair value. This Civic isn't worth $45K.

[@The_Noticer.]

@@lukewalker1051 it aint, but its not about what its worth. Its about the limits of what people will accept and how willing they're to be fleeced. Free market is mostly a pipe dream.

[@roboticvenom1935]

@@The_Noticer. free market did the elantra N well. Fuck this civic

[@BigBear--]

The limits of what people are willing to accept IS the free market at work. It's called the free market, as both parties decide freely what they're willing to charge, and what they're willing to pay. Free Market doesn't mean you get free shit.

[@Eldaino999]

This was such a heartwarming vid to watch; y’all’s enthusiasm and happiness is infectious. Love that you’re getting one Mark and I can’t wait to follow along with the ownership experience. And thank you so much for that warning at the end; the last dealership I spoke with all but admitted that they keep pulling this shit because people keep being willing to pay it. Gotta stop the cycle somehow. Amazing vid guys.

[@atg1338]

Heartwarming 🤣 get a life

[@AcuraAddicted]

I love it when Mark turns into a child that just got to try out a new toy that he is to have later. It's so pure!

[@darth420vader]

I haven't watched a singe Type R review. This is the one I have been waiting for.

[@GunKata]

Mark 2017-2021 : It seems crazy to pay $45K for what is still a Honda or a Subaru, it’s just too much. Also Mark in 2022: I’m now going to pay no more than $45K for a Honda Type R, actually. 🔥 🔥 🔥 So glad to hear this thing really hits the mark. Best review of this car so far ! 👏

[@pushslice]

LOL I was probably saying the same things about eggs, milk, and meat from the butcher ; and now in 2022, here we are. FU inflation!

[@wiegraf9009]

To be fair, inflation has made 45K worth less than it used to be in 2017.

[@bb5242]

@@wiegraf9009 Whatever you do, don't look up food prices from like 1955. We've definitely experienced hyperinflation.

[@charliesmith7942]

I'd rather have 10th gen Si you can pick up for around 30 grand, do a turbo, cai, intercooler and tune. Over 300 hp and torque. Still cheaper than any type R

[@chrisandersen9713]

@@charliesmith7942 I like the boy racer, Anime-extra craziness of the Gen 10 Si/CTR; however, the thing that bothers me about today’s prices is that the Si was a $26k car now selling used, 3 years old, with over 30k, for $30k or more. I strongly feel that most people are best served by not buying a vehicle right now unless absolutely necessary (car got totaled, is no longer economically repairable/safe, family situation changed, etc).

[@felineflammenwerfer8375]

I am so jealous of your guy’s garage. Civic Type R, C8 ZO6, and the 86!

[@lucas_vlanc]

You guys make THE BEST automotive reviews on KZbin, keep up the awesome work. Looking forwards to this review (although I'll never be able to afford it haha)

[@Beezy_Builds]

You will fam

[@willyjameshuff]

I think 99% of the buyers can’t really afford it. It’s a huge stretch buy

[@MoneyShift]

Massachusetts FL5 pricing so far. Ocean Honda: 15,000 over sticker Kelly Honda: 30,000 over sticker Rensselaer Honda: 20,000 over sticker Crazy town. Thanks for the video Savagegeese. You rock

[@mrcawfee.]

I would love an update to know if some dumbass eventually buys the one for $75k. More like close to $80k after taxes titles fees etc LMAO.

[@oemj7147]

@@mrcawfee. Yeah, that's new M3 money.

[@MoneyShift]

@@mrcawfee. so far the 20, and 15 have sold,

[@rekleif]

Wow, you guys. The true driving joy you experienced really shines trough in this video. It looks hard to capture emotions like that and put it out on video. Great information segment, very coherent and professional with just enough detail. Impressive work again to you guys. Production and editing really are top notch. Thanks for the most enjoyable Type R video I've watched today. Love from Norway.

[@savagegeese]

Thank you so much!

[@canellaICE]

Great car, for the right price, but for even a small markup at $45k, it’s F87 M2 all day. And that’s what I did - great driving dynamics and practicality.

[@Affalterbach1967]

Excellent first-take review and Honda needs no apologies for making it harder and edgier. Also, Hideki Kakinuma has better hair than most of his customers.

[@mobtownmak]

Truly the best car channel on YT. No garbage clickbait fluff. Car guys that obsess on every detail…this is your channel. These guys are after my heart with their real world impartial honesty.

[@BeanieNinjay0]

“Do not pay over 45k for this car.” All the guys on the forums that already paid 60-70k for their CTR: “😮….bUt iTs aN iNvEsTmEnT.”

[@takeit1229]

17:25 This message is very important and I truly hope we as consumers, as car fans, as honda fans can come together and say "No" to these dealerships charging markups. It needs to end and it won't if people continue to support them by paying.

[@Lumber_Jack]

100% with you on markups -- it tends to push the cars out of their competitive zone. At $45K this is a great car. At $55-60K there are better options. Thing is, that won't stop dipshits from paying too much or taking out high interest loans to do it. Makes no sense at all but I'm sure the suckers will be lined up and the dealers will be ready to take their money.

[@gustavohidalgo3703]

The last bit is why I ended up buying a new integra. I couldn't even get into an si without getting charged 5k over msrp. I knew the type r would be worse. The gr corolla is the same way. Attainable cars becoming unattainable. Ridiculous

[@a124as]

My friend bought an Integra at msrp. I wonder why dealers didn’t care to mark it up. Any ideas?

[@nickzarnetske9994]

My 2022 Si is stiff, I can't imagine how hard this things is on your body!! Great video, thank you!

[@Android-vk8yh]

You have to applaud Honda and its engineers. I'm an owner of an 07 Civic type R and they should just record the sound I have coming out of my engine and exhaust and then pipe that into the interior. No one would ever get bored of that VTec sound .I just wish they spoke to top journalist like yourself and just tweek the little things it needs but these can be done if you said. I think with software changes people like Hondata I will probably already be working on all the little tricks of making it even better than the already great car it is.

[@djchocice]

I’m definitely considering one in the future, it doesn’t have the daft 20 inch wheels the FK8 had and it’s a far better looking car. The ability to have the individual drive mode as well is a huge bonus, the roads where I am are amazing, but the road surface is pretty bad in parts. Being able to have the full fire breathing drivetrain mode but with the suspension softened off is a massive plus over the old car.

[@shinn43]

If only we can get it at MSRP with no absurd dealership markups.

[@yuriabmxr]

@@shinn43 twenty seconds on the internet will get you that.

[@shinn43]

@@yuriabmxr more like hours of contacting multiple dealerships and hope.

[@TwinsAndAPitBull]

@@shinn43 Definitely hours, if not days/weeks to find that kind of dealer. I have a couple in mind, but the closest is 4 hours from me. Every Honda dealer closer will be charging an $8-10k markup.

[@shinn43]

@@TwinsAndAPitBull Exactly, this is how you can tell @ybaha199 doesnt know anything about shopping around

[@VS666]

17:37 PLEASE TAKE THIS TO HEART!!! interest rates are awful right now and banks are not loaning anywhere near as much as they have the last two years. STOP paying huge markups and they will go away

[@db_bad]

Thank you for putting this together and addressing the mark up issues. Can’t wait to see how you find it as an owner using it day to day.

[@JustinConley]

With the winter we are having so far around these parts ( I live within 90 miles of Savagegeese), I wonder just how often Mark will be able to drive it daily. Those summer tires are going to be absolute shit when it is 20 degrees out like it is today.

[@tcdavis66]

Thumbs up for helping us get a fair price or even discount for cash buy. That and fake engine noise will have me looking at other rides. 👍👍

[@aiv4873]

I was looking at getting a FL5 Type R but the markup was 35k, final price being 79k plus taxes. I then contacted my local BMW and got my name in line for a M3.

[@carlwinslow4175]

Surprised there hasn't been a online backlash with a hashtag

[@amirulnazreen1518]

The price is normal, the FK8 type R also cost that much in Malaysia. 😅

[@Blitz0065]

So relieved to hear someone with a proper platform address these Markup issues. I'm part of a completely different type vehicle on FB amd you wouldn't believe how much people try to justify it right now. Almost as if they profit directly from it...hmmm.

[@SuperTerpsfan]

Thanks for highlighting the markup issue, something missing from many videos. I'd love to buy this car, but this is going to be unobtanium at MSRP for almost all people, which is so frustrating. If anyone has tried to buy a high demand enthusiast car recently, you know how much work you have to do to contact dealers to try to get an MSRP deal. In the end, I went up market and put a deposit down on the G87 M2, it's not a competitor to this car, but I can get it at MSRP from my local dealer and can order it to my specs. I'd like to spend less money for something like the CTR, but I don't have the time or energy to scout out a fair deal.

[@Lumber_Jack]

In the higher price range, the M2 is a much better choice, and the interior quality/materials and general tech are far superior to the Civic. I went with a 2020 F87 M2 Comp several years ago over the Civic-R and it's been one of my all time favorite sports cars. Back then (late summer 2019) I think I was able to get the M2C for about $58K after some haggling. That was MT, exec package, sunroof delete.

[@SuperTerpsfan]

@@Lumber_Jack Agreed, once you factor in the actual street price of a CTR, you are in a substantially different price bracket with a number of other cars to consider.

[@ubroberts5541]

In 2023, only about 3300 Type R’s were sold in the US. By today’s production standards it’s a rare car.

[@rickym.5271]

The only review on the FL5 I have been waiting for. Gonna have my morning coffee ready for this one.

[@SIIKAP1]

I watched this review about an hour ago. I won’t spoil it for you, but hope you enjoy it with your coffee lol

[@rickym.5271]

@@SIIKAP1 how the hell..... lol

[@SIIKAP1]

@@rickym.5271 there was a link (the video is unlisted so it can’t be seen through search, but the link made it work lol). You should see my comment on the video when it aires tomorrow, unless they get cleared out first

[@recursion.]

whats fl5?

[@rickym.5271]

@@recursion.code number for the current gen type r. Last gen was fk8.

[@patrickburnett9970]

such a well put together video. thank you for addressing the dealer markup situation at the end. we have to put a stop to it!

[@massimonegrini750]

I've been waiting for this episode! I am so glad Honda kept this type R away from electrification. Bravo Honda.

[@gettcouped]

Man, you were flying!!! What a great car and can’t wait for more videos!

[@I_know_what_im_talking_about]

That track looks like an absolute SHIT HOLE, like why is it SO DAMN BUMPY?! I’d never pay to run my car at such a track. 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@heydonray]

THE BEST, MOST TRUSTED REVIEWERS IN THE BUSINESS!

[@MiJo422]

Thank you for addressing the mark up! And I love that part where you had just the driving video before the final impressions. Keep up the great work! I love you guys.

[@polaris911]

the exterior design looks really nice

[@camlong89]

I think it looks like a Subaru....

[@ArrowsFlight]

Refused to watch any other review except for yours. Thank you so much for the great content, guys!

[@johnplavist4236]

The best review on KZbin. Can't wait 💪🏾

[@loonyhap8043]

Savages is the reason i bought this beautiful FL5...

[@youngbrevy]

Excellent, just excellent watching another TypeR video feels good knowing that Mark is getting one. I do prefer this TypeR over the previous generation. Great review

[@nicholase.9195]

So thankful that Savage channel exists. This way I can avoid having to sit through 20 minutes trying not to kill myself watching Doug DeMuro.

[@mugensamurai]

This car now has the same wheelbase length as the 7th gen accord and the overall dimensions are similar to the 5th gen accord. So for all the people that wanted an Accord Type R. Well here you go.

[@11dnm]

Best review of the new type R hands down! Thank you.

[@thedevilsadvocate3710]

I have a feeling that this car will become quite the collectable. Cheaper driver focused cars like this one is very rare and always sought after. Especially since cars are becoming more and more electronically controlled.

[@MrIlovebmw86]

Its the last ICE civic type r. Its def a collectible

[@ciello___8307]

its one of the best Type R models period.

[@edombre4637]

they will make10's of thousands of these things - hardly collectible

[@thedevilsadvocate3710]

@@edombre4637 Every single Type R ever made has been a collectable. What are you talking about?

[@Michael-pi8ps]

@@thedevilsadvocate3710 collectible to what degree? Sure it’s a performance car but this will never be a big money 300k car.

[@clemnewton9007]

This crew is the best at review cars etc

[@neilsolomon9149]

I absolutely enjoyed this review. Thanks guys. 👍

[@hotrail8295]

Excellent video and summary! Great advice on not paying markup. I remember when I was looking at the 1997 ITR, but balked when I saw two other parties trying to outspend each other on the dealership floor for one ITR. Fast forward to 1998, and a different nearby Acura dealership was flat out overstocked with Seven 1998 ITRs literally gathering dust. They could not get rid of them. I purchased one of those seven ITRs below list later the same week. No BS.

[@qx4n9e1xp]

Mark sounds like he has a second outlook on life since driving this car. He's a completely different person. That or his misses has finally allowed him to have a race car bed in the bedroom. What the small things can do to a person.

[@savagegeese]

My misses left me for a Porsche owner, now I found an Instagram model who drifts old Nissan Z's and we opened a merch website.

[@tavo.simracing]

@@savagegeese there better be an onlyfans in the works

[@landonjennings-stoyles9804]

Been holding out until your review to watch any media on the car. Worth the wait as always

[@clubracer6]

Living in the Chicagoland area I have zero interest in a FWD car. For me I enjoy a bit of throttle steer and it’s also helpful to have it when the conditions are less than ideal. But I watched because you guys just make excellent videos and I do like the idea of this car for others. Congrats on ordering one and maybe we will get to hear about your decision making process that lead you so plunking down this kind of coin for this. As always, thank you!

[@retrograde11]

What else is out there with the same level of engagement, 4 door, rear seat and manual?

[@clubracer6]

@@retrograde11 new and at this price point nothing. But for this money I’d buy my F80 manual all over again. The Caddy Blackwing pair if someone wants to spend more. Early M cars or a ZHP if you want to go older. Any Evo and to some degree the STI of you are ok with AWD.

[@retrograde11]

@@clubracer6love the blackwing(s), but outside my budget at least the ct5. Not too crazy about bmw reliability, even though I'd be able to do some of diy if need be. Evo a bit too old and a bit too spartan as a daily and one car do it all. Newer STI, all new WRX, GR Corolla and Golf R are the other non FWD possible options. But what draws me to the type R is that magic Honda formula. 4 door, plenty of room, back seat, manual, will hold it's value really well, it's light, engaging to drive, probably super reliable. Can take to track/autocross and haul family around. The car is really quite special, even though I would prefer RWD myself. I do hear the car is natural with a some lift off oversteer, so that's sounds like a lot of fun too.

[@clubracer6]

@@retrograde11 The F80 M3 is proving to be very reliable with none of the common problems of previous M-cars. They are weapons on track. That said, the steering is typical new car. Direct, but not much soul. But for a one car solution it’s pretty awesome. Mark andJack did a video on one last year. If I lived in Southern Cal or a similar climate, I might consider the CTR or Integra version if they get one. But for snow, slush and in general boring roads here, RWD is an absolute must for me. Totally agree with your other points.

[@retrograde11]

@@clubracer6 I'm in Chicago area as well. I'll have to look into f80 m3 some more. 🙂

[@ChrisWalksFast]

Thanks for bringing the markup issue. Too many “adults” act like children and must have something right away. Some people have expendable income to burn and the markup doesn’t matter, others just go into debt even more since the car will basically be their personality. Regardless, markups are tricky, especially since people will buy these new and people will still pay markups via the price the sell on C&B or BaT

[@TandemDawgBMG]

Comments section is full of disgust over how Honda dealers have screwed everyone over already, my dealership still doesn't have one and probably won't ever get one even though they are one of the few dealers that doesn't mark up their inventory which is keeping their supply extremely low. Thanks Honda, screwing over the enthusiasts here like a German manufacturer, build hype, build hype, build hype, no you don't get one.

[@scottstarck293]

One of the gauges of how much Mark likes a car is how often his tongue is out Charlie Brown style. Great review - watching this in my super soft Gentleman Goose 2.0

[@notsodelusional]

Anxiously awaiting video for a car with a 20k markup!

[@operandexpanse]

First really good looking civic in over 20 years IMO!

[@andrewhillman9632]

Looking forward to this review, will Jack be scared by Mark? Will Mark survive Jack's adrenaline rush............stay tuned 😳

[@recursion.]

god I wasnt the inly one noticing this

[@alvincolon1]

You Guy’s ever go on a 5-6 hour savagegeese binge every other day of the week? Yeah this channel is just that good. Thank you for the content.

[@gianniclaud]

So stoked for the Integra Type S now…

[@DreamWorkDrive]

This channel and Harry's garage have the best reviews around.

[@GERONIMO326]

Congratulations Mark on the new CTR. I know it's been a long time coming. As soon as I seen the styling, I immediately knew you'd get one being a Honda guy. I'm getting ready to trade the ole FK8 for one myself.

[@Driver732]

Even though I honestly didn't think most of the video was that great, I really have to commend you for addressing the Markup issue at the end. Because of that, you have my kudos for being brave and speaking your mind, which seems to be more rare these days. Can't say anything without offending some sponsor, etc. Well done!

[@shiftym1]

Love the detail you guys bring to every single video! Very well done!

[@stefandjordjevic9]

What a great video and real review. You are the best guys!!!

[@ericpromisco2213]

Great review as always. The FL5 is definitely growing on me, but I still prefer the looks of the FK8. The boy racer looks speak more to me than this which while nice looking doesn't look aggressive enough and the wing just looks tacked on. Hopefully Honda or another aftermarket company will release a color matched wing that flows better with the car's lines. To me the car isn't even worth $45k let alone the dealer mark ups. At this point I'll likely wait until the FK8s drop to the mid 30k range and pick one up.

[@agenericaccount3935]

I concur. If I wanted something that looks like a GLI, I'd buy a GLI.

[@boneseyyl1060]

That's interesting. So neither of you guys care about the improvements, you just care about how the FK8 looks in the rear view mirror of this car. Interesting. I guess Honda misjudged their audience.

[@ericpromisco2213]

@Boneseyy L of course I care about the improvements. The interior is definitely better, but the overall package to me isn't different enough to justify me spending $45k vs high 30s in another 6 months for a slightly used FK8. It lost in a drag race to the FK8 so from a performance perspective it's not much better aside from better cooling. It's not a bad car by any stretch but imo it's overpriced for what it is especially when the FK8 will perform daily tasks just as well while being cheaper. To me it's not $10k worth of upgrades vs the FK8

[@coredaqqer6197]

@@ericpromisco2213 It has a different final drive than the FL5. Plus, the car has never been a straight line car, so don’t use a drag race as a metric for which car is the better car. The car is better than the FK8 in any metric that has to do with performance. Ofc the FK8 is cheaper, it’s a few years older but it’s not at all a better car. if you can afford an FL5, you get the FL5.

[@ericpromisco2213]

@CoRe Daqqer I can afford the FL5 but I'd still go FK8. To me there's not $7k worth of upgrades in the FL5 vs FK8. There are definitely some good improvements but imo not enough to warrant spending the extra money. Both are going to perform almost identically doing street driving except for the seemingly harsher ride on the FL5 and the better interior. If the FL5 started at $40k I'd probably pull the trigger on one but as it sits to me it's not worth the premium. Not necessarily that one car is better than the other, but one is trying to justify a $7k price bump by just being slightly better.

[@MrUltraworld]

This channel's reviews are outstanding and really next-level.

[@frootypepos]

Looking forward to the daily driving comparison b/w the gr corolla and this a year later! Thank you SG!! ❤

[@giovanhagar]

The Corolla most likely has direct and port injection. The Honda I believe has direct injection only, which means eventually the intake valves get coated with carbon. We bought a 2021 Accord Hybrid last year, has port injection, no transmission, gets 48 mpg and has 212hp. Quiet and smooth.

[@goatsplitter]

Exactly right on the mark up bit. People need to STOP paying mark ups, and dealers will stop CHARGING mark up prices. It's not rocket appliance people...

[@greatheightsu]

It looks so much better than the last one. Still aggressive but not to the corny extreme lameness of the last.

[@bcvijasiu]

You are so right about the markups and reporting of the dealerships and sales people that add markups. It absolutely needs to stop. PS You will be surprised to know I just got my Molten Pearl IS500 for MSRP. I worked with a great dealership and sales person in my home town.

[@duketoby0]

This just looks stunning 🤩

[@MatthewJay80]

Great information! Thanks for translating Jack

[@alancirwin]

As an FL8 owner I can tell you 2 things that bother me about this new one prior to the review: 1. Contrary to popular opinion Michelin pilot sport 4s tires suck. On the type R they are way mushy, no firm sidewalls and don’t grip all that well. Had some on my car and ruined the turn in terribly. You can see how bouncy in other reviews which is because you have to put high tire pressure to make sure the sidewalls don’t fold over thereby causing bounce city. 2. The tablet on dash infotainment in FL5 is a terrible idea. Obstructs your view. Makes me think they made the standard civic first then the type R unlike the FK8. Honda we all want an FK8 w a manual e brake that actually drifts. That doesn’t mean screw the front turn in, that means loosen the rear and allow some slip in the esc. Toning down the looks is fine but doesn’t not go full committee w it either. It is a special car.

[@latuba2478]

This here is a comment from somebody who actually has owned and driven a type R. Good and insightful and accurate.

[@JamieToddBand]

I love the fact the tablet is not raised up on my FK8.

[@bradava1]

I agree with you about the 4s tires. Hard to complain though since cup 2’s are optional. As a current si owner, I can’t say I’ve once thought the screen obstructs my view. Hate the electronic parking break.

[@GoldenCroc]

You do realise the 4s is a literal "all weather (except snow)" tire? Not meant for track duty at all, or even extreme street driving. What tire is better as an all round sporty tire for daily driving, year round? Just dont see how they are bad when one have their intended usage in mind, compared to the competition? As far as I know, most tire tests agree.

[@KTH96]

@@GoldenCroc 4S are max performance summer tires, not all seasons.

[@KC16A6]

gonna call you guys Savage Goosebumps knowing about the involvement of an S2000 developer makes me appreciate this ride even more

[@eppyz]

From a performance perspective, I think its awesome Honda built this car. Brand bias aside though, I feel the Golf R for the money?? Is the car to buy. The Golf just seems more upscale, is a true hatchback, and is about the same price as this plus you have an DSG option in the VW for those that want a fast car, but can't drive a stick (cough cough my wife). These cars no matter which you choose, the GR, Civic or Golf, they are getting very expensive. The whole point about these cars is "Affordable" performance, and in a day and age where basically $50k is considered "Affordable" ( i say $50k because be honest, OTD that is what either of these cars will cost you if not more). Average person puts less than 10% down on a car, so if your financing $45k for 72 months? That's $650-$700 a month folks plus gas, insurance and maintenance. OUCH!!! You definitely have to "Pay" to "Play".

[@richsgarage5897]

Jumped on the list at a local dealer in IL. 6-12 month wait but I’ll get it at MSRP. Most Chicago area dealers want 5-10k over msrp still, ridiculous..

[@Affalterbach1967]

18:12 is a new car reveal surprise. Volume shipments of this new Type R might get the Si back down to selling for MSRP.

[@makeitshine108]

As always, incredible video. This deserves a lot more views!

[@nurzrachit7133]

Great to see the new Honda Civic type R is on the way. Much better looking than the last one imo, can only imagine how Honda is able to improve upon the last one, because it is an outstanding car. I thought your message about cost was an important one too. I was in the market to attempt to purchase the last Gen myself and was disappointed that I was unable to get one without having to pay the market upcharge, even after spending a few months haggling. I'm very proud to say that I resisted the urge to give up and pay and I went out and found a great substitute in the Veloster N and paid less than $30K New in 2019. We all have to band together and destroy that movement while we still can. Instead of being one sighted I was pushed to look at other options and they were actually Very very good. The Veloster N is an amazing car and every bit as great as the CTR, maybe even greater considering it was nearly $20K less than what a new CTR would have cost me. Well now I have a 2021 RWD Camaro SS 1LE, and I paid less than a new CTR would cost me at MSRP and I don't think I'm missing anything at all, in fact I don't even want the new CTR, I have moved to right wheel drive and I'm not going backwards unless I get a Veloster to piddle with along with my Chevy. Great video, looking forward to your vids on that bastard!!

[@justwingingit1]

Just wanted to thank you guys as well about addressing the dealer markups! I’ve owned 2 FK8s(one nearly stock,one modified).First one was a 2018 at MSRP,second was a few thousand over(traded in 18 with 80k mileage for a 21 with 8 miles to modify). I walked out of a dealership last night that wanted 20k over MSRP and tried to insist that even their lowered price of nearly 15k over was a bargain because of the market etc etc. I told them they had my information and offer and I’d wait for their call or see them in a couple of years when the prices returned to normalville. 45k plus the eventual 12-15k in wheels,mods,tuning,labor,etc. on even a great car like the CTR should automatically expand your options on all of the other factory turn key hot rods that meet or exceed the CTR’s performance(even modified)…just my two cents.

[@FRWD_FXLRST]

Looks so much better than the last gen.

[@NBPT428]

Great video. This car looks like it's an instant classic. Kudos to you for the dealer message at the end. I hope everyone listens. I just tried to buy a new RDX from the dealer I've bought and serviced Acura's from for 19 years. They smiled with a marked up price. I walked and found the same car at another dealer $0 above MSRP.

[@CypressRacing]

Awesome review as always. Have been enjoying my FL5 for a week and echo your sediments...it's a brilliant do-all machine.

[@jalmosteinstein]

I love the production quality of your videos

[@rrennnerr]

5:37 is that a Type R painted in Silver?? That would be my go-to color.

[@PirateLookinAtFourty]

Your advice to wait is spot-on. Just saw a KZbin video today that shows a $26k dealer mark-up on one of these.

[@chinoskateboardv]

Damn this thing is looking solid.

[@BarnStangz]

Man, Mark sticking out his tongue in corner 4 like we was lapping up some extra McRib sauce! You know this Civic is good people!!!

[@CristianHernandez-xh7bz]

Can’t wait for the CTR and GR Corolla head to head

[@joelgibbs23]

Thanks for talking about the markups, this is very much appreciated.

[@paulcataldi4895]

Excited to see this! Does a high powered FWD platform stack up against the Golf R and GR Corolla? Let's see!

[@CrazyWeeMonkey]

This looks like such a blast to drive! People love to hate on FWD performance cars online but I get the feeling many of them haven't actually driven a well-set-up one from a manufacturer like Honda. Controlling the driving line with the throttle in a corner is so much fun, especially when you can really feel what the front tires are doing through the steering wheel.

[@jordankelly4684]

Thats the stupid drifting community that hates FWD. Move to the rally community, we love every drivetrain set up.

[@RatBürgerSk8]

@@jordankelly4684 There was a mid 90s rally where Alister McRae beat almost the entire field of group A drivers in a FWD Formula 2 Nissan Sunny. FWD is ridiculously potent with a driver who understands the layout's strengths and limitations.

[@markm0000]

Omg this Premiere. I have to endure 10 hours of blue balls.

[@SIIKAP1]

Unless you had the secret link 🤐

[@youtoobe169]

"no grinds" - That answered my #1 question. Honda hasn't ever made a 6 speed without a gear grind, so at least they figured it out this time around.

[@dongidongi]

Glad to see you enjoyed it! Any dealerships in the Chicago area that you recommend will not price gouge?

[@savagegeese]

Ill be doing a video on that in a few weeks. I am working on that.

[@dongidongi]

@@savagegeese Awesome! Looking forward to it!

[@dongidongi]

@@savagegeese I asked one, got 10k market adjustment and 3500 mandatory accessories in the quote!

[@dongidongi]

update @savagegeese - I decided to ask around. I have heard markup as low as 4k to as high as 20k in a 100-mile radius. Giving up now. I'm in the MSRP camp.

[@PaulYeoman1]

Thank you for the extra seconds at the end...such a nice cool down....