School-Kids as Factory Products | Zach Lahn | EP 370

Ep. 370
Dr. Jordan B. Peterson and Zach Lahn discuss the Wonder School, a Socratic-based education system in Wichita, Kansas. They delve into the value of learner-driven education, the origins of the American school system as a means to create obedient factory workers, and the true role of schools in shaping a child’s character. They also walk through a day in the life of a Wonder Leaner, the curriculum designed to help inspire these students toward their true calling, and exactly why this unconventional approach might be well worth your consideration as a parent.
Zach Lahn is the co-founder of Wonder, a learner-driven school in Wichita, Kansas, with the mission of helping young people find their calling and preparing them to change the world. His background in business has been as a founder of a search fund focused on acquiring and building small to medium companies. Prior to founding Wonder, Zach managed U.S. Congressional and Senatorial campaigns and raised funds for startup companies and nonprofit organizations. He now spends nearly all of his time at school with his six kids and with his wife, building a regenerative farm on his family’s ancestral homestead in Iowa.
Dr. Peterson's extensive catalog is available now on DailyWire+: bit.ly/3KrWbS8
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- Links -
For Zach Lahn:
Twitter @ZachLahn / zachlahn
The Wonder School www.daringtowonder.com/
- Chapters -
(0:00) Coming up
(0:27) Intro
(1:15) The need for a new model
(5:46) What is most important for children to learn?
(6:57) Agency over skillset
(9:45) Self Authoring
(12:43) Origin of the American education system
(15:44) competing systems
(17:36) The Wonder schedule
(21:28) Kids live in a meta narrative
(22:23) The education of character
(23:47) Akira the Don, active learning
(27:36) Mixed age classes
(30:20) Inspiring development and leadership
(31:31) Necessary freedom
(33:07) Socratic discussion, mentors
(37:05) Khan Academy
(39:20) Goals for kindergarten
(40:04) Compared to public school
(41:51) Tuition
(43:20) The problem with measurement
(44:30) Self tracking and public peer review
(50:00) Two behaviors that cannot work in school
(51:26) If not rectified by the age of 4…
(52:49) Gamified learning
(54:03) Freedom hours
(56:49) Are Wonder graduates prepared?
(58:14) How conflicts are handled
(1:01:13) All learning is self-learning
(1:04:25) When initiative is scorned
(1:07:54) How to determine what learners read
(1:09:18) Why self help books are so useful
(1:10:34) Why children don’t like reading
(1:12:17) Book review review
(1:15:09) Badge plan
(1:19:10) Aims of each age group
(1:22:18) The power in apprenticeships
(1:28:50) Approach to high school, the “next great adventure”
(1:32:05) Success of the model
(1:34:03) Be ready for a journey
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[@shawnaweesner3759]

“I have never let my schooling interfere with my education.” Mark Twain

[@shawnaweesner3759]

@@hit_me_up142. I thoroughly enjoyed this sharing of ideas. Also, I’m looking forward to a discussion between you and Headteacher Katharine Birbalsingh.

[@YuyiLeal]

Love this quote!!!

[@borat9108]

@@jacobnelson2480 it's not, you should start learning. It's most likely Mark Twain's quote, but definitely not Grant Allen. Check your facts before you start correcting others.

[@shawnaweesner3759]

@@jacobnelson2480 woops.

[@lucuspreston8507]

This is the single biggest factor in my waking up. Not being woke, but actual waking.

[@winsomewife7112]

The ONLY REASON we switched to homeschooling in 2007 was the amount of homework that full time schools require. I wanted the kids to get enough time with their dad. Why don't I EVER hear anyone publicly discuss that point about education, the need for kids to have enough free time to bond with and learn from their father? And mother? And enough siblings time too? And extended family?

[@sanniepstein4835]

And play, which is essential to all young animals.

[@ozwunder69]

A very fair point.. if affordable that's the option... Covid proved that for so many parents

[@ozwunder69]

And learning to make stuff.. home economics sewing weather work Gardens etc etc

[@arwenstrong2818]

It's all these 'accountability' systems put in after No Child Left Behind, etc. They wanted teachers to document proof students are "learning". Plenty of teachers hate it too, as grading it takes up too much of their time too and isn't really reflective of their ability to teach.

[@greghuntington9277]

You sound like a fantastic mother, kudos to you. I'm sure it will pay subtle, compounding dividends throughout his life and as an extension your families life 👍

[@joannethompson6658]

This is so incredibly inspiring, meanwhile, in Nova Scotia, Canada this past week (June 2023) junior high school students (ages 11-13) participating in an end of year "fun day" were told if they did not participate in "twerking" at one of the activity stations their group would loose points. Hats off to the student who refused to participate and called his mother to come and pick him up.

[@chrys77cross]

Wow.

[@truther627]

That child's going places!

[@freebird1477]

Wtf,? Really? I just don't understand what's wrong with ppl these days. Guess I'm old. But it seems like utter shit to me.

[@timwhiston8279]

​@@truther627home mainly 😂 seriously great to assert yourself and have supportive family , pray for the ones that dont have as such ❤

[@dnj20]

🤯🤯

[@orpheusness2422]

School made me feel like I wasn’t good at anything. After being set free in to adulthood I found I was good at learning and became very skillful in many disciplines. I’ve done quite well for myself in life but owe my school education very little gratitude

[@hellomate639]

Same......... It's a big oof.....

[@VictorEkekrantz]

A sad waste of time really, but great that it's possible to recover for those who manage to set themselves free

[@donnajohnson3334]

Public schooling taught me I was ugly, idiotic and a failure at most everything. I passed bc I knew how to sit still.

[@six-gunsound1145]

My school experience was that of scraping by and being considered a waste of the teacher's time and the desk I was sitting in. After escaping the K-12 system I was on the Dean's List in college when allowed to make my own curriculum choices. I wasn't a discipline problem, I was bored. But being a boy from an impoverished voluntarily single mother led household I was labeled, boxed and placed in a special education program for kids with disabilities, and doped into zombification by a mother who didn't want boys because I had too much energy.

[@freebird1477]

It's sad, because kids that feel like that, prob have a dif way of learning. There's 4 dif ways of learning, I remember reading, and schools pick the one that is the most common. By rote. I guess. (?) Others, my youngest , has to do to understand, just reading something does nothing.

[@Iad83]

Man I wish this was my school experience. I hated school so much, I felt constantly depressed or anxious. By the time I graduated, I felt defeated; relieved to be out but horrified as I had no idea what to do next. It felt like things went from bad to worse.

[@chrisfleischman3371]

Yeah, I get it. I am in my early sixties now, and looking back realize I have had a pattern of depression and anxiety instilled from kindergarten on through high school and junior college. At the age of 28, after agonizing over whether to take the test for Mensa or not, fearing failure, I finally decided to end the anxiety of not knowing by taking the test. Scored in the genius range. It brought perspective to why I did not fit in well with the general population; only two percent of the general population thought and expressed themselves at my level! It makes for a lonely life, in general….

[@obsideonyx7604]

Same. It's strange how when I tried talking about it, it was waved away as normal. Why is this hell accepted?

[@georgeo785]

School was as close to being institutionalized as l ever wanted to be. 12 year prison sentence

[@claudinasoarestorres2503]

Hi, before something Real Good happens... things will go from bad to worse. It's written and it happens over and over. Good thing you are persistent coz life throws uncountable blows, some you can forecast and avoid, some other you just deal with them. Elon musk said some fears just vanish when you look at them right in the eyes

[@iw9338]

That's the goal of it, robotic rule following.

[@kevinaitken830]

As a teacher in a public school, this has made me rethink some of my practices for the start of the 2023-2024 school year. Great content. Thank you, Jordan!

[@alejandrabonita8355]

You won't be able to or you'll get picked on by other teachers when u don't want to teach kids about being gay don't kid yourself teachers are useless ..you can learn more in 2weeks about life and what's important with the natives ..only thing teachers produce is hookers and drug addicts and now transgender 😅

[@brittneyrichmond6724]

I’m a home schooling mom and thought the same thing.

[@LindaDianeTaylor]

Yes I hear you..I have two teacher friends looking for new careers. Both have been teaching for over 15 years.

[@georgeo785]

Be careful. Too many Americans don't seem to love America but are helping those that want to destroy it

[@MisstyG]

We all know that your hands are tied, you have to do exactly what *they* tell you to do, and it's not what's best for anyone's child.

[@hunnybeezy]

"True education is to believe something so confidently to be true that you would dare tell it to a child." I absolutely love this!!!

[@manga3040]

There has to be a solid foundation in the person. All the gender fluid pronoun pushes follow that same wisdom and they are trying to indoctrinate the youth.

[@pattyb8736]

As an elementary public school teacher, one of the most valuable processes you talk about for this approach is that other students can point out when another student’s behavior is disruptive, rude, or some other problem for the group. It seems like in public school everyone is supposed to tiptoe and bend around the negative or victim behaviors of one student, instead of that student ever having to consider what they are doing.

[@Deda12544]

I get your argument, but it scares me too. It can become too totalitarian. It smells of a social credit system. It feels like indoctrination.

[@mamamode1312]

And parents wonder why their "young adults" can not hold a job and are having meetings with parole officers.

[@jessyG4311]

In a public school environment it would be completely inappropriate for other students to try and hold their peers accountable. It is 100 % environmentally conscious.. in public school, they are sitting in a desk for hours in a day. In public school they are conditioned to memorize and interact only when called upon.. if ever. These models that they are talking about, you can be certain that the 6 1/2 year olds are likely moving, and talking to their peers.. whilst trying to be involved in the discussion. You’d have the young girls in public schools shaming the young boys for “poor behaviour” because they do not have the capacity to sit like the young girls. So I’m glad I’m public schools teachers are the arbiters. My son did soooo poorly in public school, he was acting out, he was being disruptive. Of course we never told him it was acceptable and we never made excuses for him.. the consequences stood but as parents we had to figure out why.. he is a kind, caring and attentive child.. so why did that switch so quickly. Turns out, he was completing his work.. and then was told to sit there until the rest of the class was done (20 minutes plus at times).. have you ever seen a 5 1/2 year old sit still for 20 minutes doing nothing.. I haven’t and wouldn’t expect that. He was also never engaged on topics.. partly because he has a disagreeable nature so he would try to argue the counterpoint.. which is a great thing if thought properly. So you would have had other students competing to shut him up or “correct” his behaviour .. which was completely dependent upon the environment. Needless to say, we home school and have a tutor come weekly.. we also have him in sports to help with socialization and he is doing extremely well.

[@timothyblazer1749]

If we look back at the ancient method of apprenticeship under a parent, or other members of a community, that is basically what he's talking about. It's fantastic. To this day, although I went through the system, the skills I have put to use the most in my life have been cooking, self care, home maintenance, plumbing, electrical, carpentry and etc...all learned from my mother and father at nights and on weekends when I was a child. I had a hammer in my hand at age 4, and a kitchen knife at age 6. Because of this, I can chef meals, fix or install a water heater, repair a window, garden and so many more things that I have realized most people don't learn to any level of real competency.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

🎉

[@marcisaacs9407]

Same- thank God

[@Jennieallen415]

The 3 most useful classes I had in public education were Latin, typing and driver's training. I also learned how to construct a decent paragraph.

[@marcisaacs9407]

@@Jennieallen415 amen

[@annat6249]

@@Jennieallen415That is great. I live in CA. Kids born with family members primary and only language is English was attending ESL. I was so surprised!

[@Alaitha]

When Jordan told about his teacher's reaction to him having read all the books required that year, I had a fladhback to when I was 6 and got my first math work book at school. I completed 4 chapters the first afternoon I got to bring it home. I proudly showed the teacher the next day and I got scolded because we were only supposed to do the first page... Taught me that great passionate effort was not the goal of the education. Compliance wad apparently ranked far higher. I luckily didn't have to redo everything. I got to help the learning disabled kid do addition problems.. Win win for the teachers. Two problems solved at once.

[@caitlin6983]

And that’s exactly who the typical school system is set up for-the teacher, not the students! The traditional way means overworked, annoyed teachers who require everyone to sit down and be quiet, to write their names in the same spot on every page of the assignment, to stand in line, etc. The utter waste of time and the pain inflicted on so many children is absolutely unacceptable. I’m so glad to hear that there are people out there trying to find a better way forward.

[@MadeByChinkee]

Fortunately, my teachers back then are not like that. In fact I had to hold back, just because for example if you're submitted your paper early and you get the perfect score, you will be the one tasked to check on all the remaining papers. I don't like the attention, and I'm kinda lazy for that. 😅 But I did have a not so cool encounter with an art teacher though. She gave me a poor score on my drawing, because she apparently thought I couldn't have possibly did it my self. Oh well, she doesn't know me as a student, so I kinda forgive her.

[@JoeEvermore]

My daughter was punished for not reading at the same level as the worst reader in the class. Figure that! She had read all the Harry Potter books by the time she was seven years of age…..not to mention the additional library of books she also had read. In fact she was a better reader tan her teacher.

[@_shadownotes_]

​@@JoeEvermoreif she was a good reader, how did they justify punishing her?

[@_shadownotes_]

As an adult, that's what my job is like. Willingly go the extra mile, and your only reward is more work.

[@lesliejrogers]

As having been an elementary teacher for 33 years, I am trying to reconcile myself with what I thought I was doing, and with what actually was happening over a long period of time. If you’re floating in 19:00 a pan of water, you don’t know it is hot until the pot is boiling. Nearing the end of my career, I realized what was happening and started to express my opinion. After that, they did everything to make me quit. People in the lunch room would start asking when I was retiring, then they started offering me a “distinguished” rating on yearly evaluations (that was soul killing, since I knew they disagreed with my pedagogy) because they thought it would make me unafraid to try new things. There were many more things they tried to make me quit. This was just after I had expressed feelings that too many weekly minutes were being taken away from academic content time, and that my students would be unable to make the progress we all had looked for in every student to make during a school year. Just a few years prior, we had celebrated the fact that our tiny school in a small town, was ranked 19th in the entire state. We were very proud of that. Then Covid hit, and the deconstruction of academic excellence was complete in our school. When we returned from distance learning, they told us to abandon academic gain and to focus on Social-Emotional learning - supposedly because of student trauma. Yup. The kids had regressed and would do things like lay on the floor and kick and scream like a toddler, or have a panic attack when you put away the computers. They were traumatized by the lockdown. All learning had stopped at our school. So heartbreaking.

[@thechallengedgardener2024]

Where was your school? This is a fascinating story? Very sad indeed.

[@petitsacados]

I've tried tiny private school, was homeschooled, and attended select classes at public school. The private school was good, but the homeschool shaped me for the better. I know how to learn independently and ask critical questions. My homeschooled peers are the same. I beg anyone reading, if you can, choose homeschool for your kids.

[@_shadownotes_]

I was homeschooled, but I had to watch video classes, so it was basically the same waste of time that regular school is for me.

[@LindyLime]

Everyone who homeschools should take the time to learn different philosophies of learning, rather than just try to recreate public school at home. There are much better ways.

[@johnowens5342]

My kids are homeschooling and scoring in the top 90th percentile nationally. It works for the person that wants a better education but may not have a good private school option. People talk about socializing, but public schools have stopped socializing and now are indoctrination centers. The kids in public schools are neither social or educated, so other than daycare, I see no purpose for our current school system. My wife was a public school teacher before we married, so her taking charge of the education of our sons was not an obstacle.

[@RunninUpThatHillh]

I graduated high school with a D. I've homeschooled my kids (unschool, actually) since kindergarten. Parents only need to be curious. Nothing more. In fact, the less indoctrination by teaching degrees the better.

[@I_dont_know-wx2bo]

But socializing is one of the most important things a human can do to intergrate in to his culture. For most people this is a very important function of school.

[@GenuineLhachwen]

@I_dont_know-wx2bo Socialization happens at home. If a child cannot effectively socialize with their parents and/or siblings than it matters not if they are exposed to people outside of the family unit. Socialization also happens in any setting where other humans congregate. Parks, libraries, museums, as well as any public forum are opportunities to incorporate socializing for children. Friend groups are easy to engage with as well. I do not understand why people have this idea that home educated children lack socialization. It is a silly concept.

[@Astarchopchop]

in this country most parents work. and therefore most people don't have the luxury of home schooling. your comment is stupid

[@alvareo92]

@@GenuineLhachwen Homeschooled children lack 6-8 hours per day of socialization. I know regular schools are far from ideal and evidently not all about socialisation and negotiating with peers. But it will be very different for most homeschooled kids compared with those who went to school

[@hungrymusicwolf]

Yes, finally! Someone actually talking about the absolute ridiculousness of parents talking about how to raise their children well, all the while leaving them in an "sit in a room and be punished if you aren't staring at the books enough" school.

[@ilb735]

Dare to colour outside the lines.. ( without being a distraction?🤨)

[@hungrymusicwolf]

​@@ilb735 Dare to colour outside the lines... just not outside the lines we want, nor more beautifully than us teachers can (that one gets plenty of smart kids into trouble), and not so creatively we cannot understand it because then you get an F. So basically just colour inside the lines and throw a few specks out there to make the teachers feel good for being "open" and "inspiring creativity". Yeah, I'm a bit salty about the education system.

[@annjames1837]

Government schools are an unnatural environment and are dangerous for the development of children especially boys. Stop warehousing your children!!

[@lukiso5734]

People have been talking about it for ages. The problem is nothing ever gets done to improve it.

[@Sun-ic7rq]

From nearly day one "school" was anxiety inducing madness and I was punished and shamed for noticing and being victimised by it.

[@tamb7587]

I hear you ! My son was put in gifted classes I thought,” great!” he will get to learn neat things that regular classes don’t teach. WRONG! All the classes did was add “ busy work” to my child which took literally hours of out of class time.. So he came home after sitting in class all day then had to continue to sit at a desk all evening and hours on weekends to accomplish all this mindless busywork.. I felt so sorry for him as I’m sure most ALL parents of the gifted children do so I would step in and do the work for him .. I called BS on that ! Told the counselor do NOT put him in GT classes again! Instead we spent our weekends going to museums and making things and fun engaging projects, NOT SILLY busy work like word searches and other such mindless crap..

[@thechallengedgardener2024]

Our children are also always top of their classes. We let them decide themselves when they want to spend a day at home by themselves. The teachers are very understanding. Choose a small school for your children rather than look for the school's academic rating. Now our children are teenagers and spend their time almost exclusively before screens, either playing games or on social media. I hold my breath and hope that this phase will pass.

[@tamb7587]

@@thechallengedgardener2024 Being the parent of now grown children ages 28 and 30 , my experience is “ don’t bet on it”. My son who was never really interested in video games or sitting in front of the computer still is not. He’s 30 yrs old , gardens , does all kids of outdoor activities. My daughter who was into video games, and watching Tic Tock videos as a teen is still the same.. Prefers gaming to dating or going out with friends, in fact the only friends are ones she games with on the computer…. It was indeed not a phase and at age 28 has NOT changed…

[@teqfreak]

I'm from the Netherlands, but I expect our education systems to work more or less the same. This conversation touches exactly what my issue always has been with school and higher education. What I like a lot about what I am hearing is that it really feels like how I learn things myself and how I try to teach myself new skills. My school time has been the most uninspiring boring time of my life. I used to always have good grades, but there also have been time I didn't because I simply didn't put any energy in it at all. I always feel that school has always been in my way of developing my potential, while it actually should have been the opposite. On paper I only finished high school because of that. All the skills I use today to earn my income streams are self taught, I learned them in time I should have been doing home work. Being the problem child that I was, not accepting authority in the class room etc they always told me I would grow up and nothing good would come from me. To get me out of school they made me do tests to proof I wasn't intelligent enough for the school, the opposite was the outmost opposite and I sitll needed to leave. After finishing high school somewhere else (with high scores, especially for my favourite subjects: math, biology and physics) I have attended 2 different universities hoping that this would finally be the salvation when it came to my education, both were horrible and counter-productive as well, so I quit both. Nowadays I speak 3 languages, work as a freelance software developer and technology consultant. I started programming when I was 12 years old. I have set up 2 successful businesses in the past. I do each day what I like and I am known in my field for creative "outside-the-box" solutions that meet high standards. When I criticize our school system I also always hear "you didn't turn out so bad, neither did I". But everything is self taught and self study I give zero credit to the system, the only exceptions are a few teachers/ professors who were truly inspiring and didn't do things by the book... If I would have been doing my homework and complied to the school and study I most certainly would not be where I am today, and I am absolutely disgusted by how society imposes such an uninspiring full time system on children that breaks their spirit and is a total disconnect from reality. Its such a waste of time during the most important years of your life. It is saddening and maddening. I always wonder what I (or anybody else for that matter) could have accomplished if I didn't have to fight the system from such a young age but was facilitated to develop and master my interests instead. I try not to think about it too much and still try to learn and grow each day, but all those hours in the classroom, listening to mediocre monologues stating the same facts from a page you read the day before, is time I will never get back.

[@VeritasIncrebresco]

You Dutch need to make more babies

[@Angelface11]

I'm from America and I agree. Why on earth our children going to school for 12 years and then college and then just spending most of their life in school learning the same stupid things over and over why do they need so much attention on spelling year after year and math year after you're in the same exact things that are not going to happen help them in life. But also why no emphasis on things that are important and why do they need to spend all day every day for such a long time every year in a classroom? That's just crazy that's why so many people in America are now homeschooling. It's just ridiculous it's nothing that's useful all that stuff could be learned in a couple months or in a year or less and kids could be learning a trade and what they want to do in life and important things like how to balance money and how to have emotional and mental intelligence which is the thing that's most needed in this life how to fix a car how to grow food I mean it's just crazy how much time is wasted in schooling. During the time when kids brains work the best and then they set them out to be free when their brain isn't working so good and when they make bad decisions at 18 it's just crazy. When your brain is so apt to learn and so quick to learn is when you should be learning the most important skills in life not math.

[@grammadrm4974]

I was an avid young reader and my 9th grade English teacher didn't believe me, so I listed every book in my closet with title, author and store line. 3 sheets of lined paper, line by line. She never gave me positive feed back. I had a signed copy of Gone with the Wind, but lost it in a flood.

[@MatheusCarvalho-ev9hw]

That's so bad. My daughter is like you, an avid reader. But she is lucky one of the teachers recognized her effort. This has been very positive for her.

[@annat6249]

My 4 year old can read. Of course he would struggle with big words. His preschool teacher was surprised.

[@jerbil9353]

I feel you buddy. My English teacher thought I cheated when I wrote a story at home. She demanded I write another story in front of her, so I did. She swapped me to the top class, but never apologised.

[@maxpitchkites]

You had Margaret Mitchell's autograph?

[@onegorgeouschick]

​@@annat6249❤❤❤❤❤

[@user-ct4en9um8p]

Thinking outside of the box was considered as disobedience when I was in school. Hopefully this concept spreads far, and wide for our future generations.

[@kristina1818]

I always thought I hated learning. Now as adult, I can't stop! My kids will benefit from the shift in mindset. Thank you for the incredible podcast .

[@dogfather68]

It's not the learning, it's how it's taught. The things that should be taught, are not only discouraged, but denied.

[@dehistoriapisciumfish7639]

A tip to start learning is to drop Jordan Peterson and listen to people who aren’t crazy right wing demagogues

[@thechallengedgardener2024]

@@dehistoriapisciumfish7639 Tell me please what is right wing about Jordan Peterson. One of the most educated and well-spoken academics I know.

[@Amybeth_T]

With Berkshire, Munger and Buffett have each accomplished a remarkable feat. They've made a lot of individuals rich by transforming thousands into billions. Reading Berkshire's annual letters helped me realize the market's potential. I recently sold my condo in the Bel Air neighborhood with the intention of investing the proceeds in the stock market. Crossing fingers!

[@AlecHadden]

Increased losses for portfolios are anticipated this quarter as a result of market drops, skyrocketing inflation, a large rise in interest rates by the Fed, and rising Treasury yields. Just a good FA will be enough to guide you through the current market volatility.

[@Carole974]

I've been in touch with a coach for a while now mainly because I lack the depth knowledge and mental fortitude to deal with these recurring market conditions. I made a good amount of earnings during this dip, which made it clear there's more to the market than we average joes know. Having an investment adviser is the best course of action right now, especially for near retirees.

[@Ritchie319]

@@Carole974 How can I get in touch with this man?

[@Carole974]

@@Ritchie319 Andrew Glenn Adams is a true genius when it comes to portfolio diversification. He is SEC-regulated, so you can look him up online.

[@Ritchie319]

@@Carole974 I'm going to look him up as well because I want to start with some excellent capital-it might not be much, but it's better than nothing. Considering that the 2008 crash is resurfacing.

[@zacharyhaag9624]

My name is Zach, and I was born in Wichita, Kansas. You've done me a lot of good in my life, Dr. Peterson! Thanks so much!

[@patriciafalcon3432]

I've watched you since the first time you were on social media. I love all your podcast. You're one of the smartest man I've ever met. I admired how you would not let the college bully you. To see where God has led you to where you are now so you could share your wisdom to a broader audience. God has blessed many by blessing you.

[@christiantaylor1495]

I watched him since the same time as you, agree with everything you said, and I also like Andrew Tate

[@orrinchandler6936]

Go purchase his writing course.

[@katadam2186]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@katadam2186]

Lol 😂

[@katadam2186]

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@coolvideos8019]

I like how Jordan Peterson tries genuinely to help to better our society. Thank you Dr. Peterson 🙏

[@JohnSmith-fd1ql]

I was a Boy Scout in the 1960’s. We learned everything in this manner. Groups lead by older boys, teaching each other how to read a compass, tie a knot, whatever and earn merit badges.

[@julieabbate8688]

This whole discussion is so brilliant and hopeful. It does activate my ongoing concerns with todays school systems as it relates to my three children ages 13, 11 & 9. Brought up in a science/math based Montessori at least two years ahead in all categories to public education. Self managed and love learning and reading. The only next step was to attend advanced charters, Christian private or public - to be general. The extremes between all three are almost unworkable. Pair that with the social norms around technology that are prevalent among students at all three general areas of instruction and our family feels at a loss. I am so hopeful that this type of educational model can spread and spread quickly! Our kids would thrive in this environment. Children can take in so much more than we give them credit for and the Socratic discussions with mixed younger ages is fantastic. Kids have ability to problem solve and interact productively more than society gives them opportunity to practice. Thank you for doing this work!!! Our children need it!

[@thekatarnalchemist]

The interview was brilliant! I'm a teacher, and it has cemented my resolve to quit my job after I finish this contract year and either find or create a school like this one.

[@johnbaker6125]

School was so boring for me, I naturally picked up things very easily when I was younger. I could listen to it, read it or perform a task once and ace it from then on. It's helped me later in life being able to apply things i have learned to new situtations but it was 12 years of boredom. It also hurt me once I got out of K-12 and went to take college level courses. Every year we'd spend the first half of the year repeating the year before. History was just memorizing dates and names without context. English wasn't much better and mandatory literature consisted of a giant tome forced upon us to master in a quarter complete with memorizing obscure characters to be tested upon. Only math and science were interesting to me but it was silly easy even when we were doing analytical geometry and pre-calculus. I never learned to be studious because of it and have a deep hatred of paperwork (Too many years of conjugating the same verbs and diagramming sentences over and over.) No telling where I would be if there was a different stucture to the public school system that could have sparked my interest instead of killing my enthusiasm.

[@marcus8710]

I hear you like a dang fellow spirit. Who knows what kinds of people we SHOULD have been, and easily would have become were it not for spiteful mutants. They are inheriting their world now.

[@annieyang4763]

Woah I am in school right now and things still haven't changed :,>! I wonder how I can help change the school system to improve, and I can totally see where you are coming from.

[@luckymeyer1014]

During eng history I'd fall asleep & tumvleout of the chair OFTEN, Then summer school ,same thing ...now they in news Daily.. CRAP.

[@fathead8933]

@@annieyang4763you can’t. It’s cultural. Teaching is a highly female dominate profession. Females tend to march in lock step in their behaviors. It would literally take women to degrade each other again for the system to be rehashed. You would have to break the tenure system to kill the bad apples. Basically, you’d have to destroy the system to fix it. This isn’t just a problem in schooling. This is kinda a major American problem.

[@spencerroyal4109]

Do not let evil waste your time or hate that which is good for you.

[@Alien_at_Large]

This sounds much like what my sons and I decided to do with our home school! I'm so happy to see that somebody else gets it. Since my boys left public schools (middle school age), they have educated THEMSELVES, which isn't to say that I didn't help them. But roughly 90% of what they learned at our school, they learned independently and through self-motivation. They can read, write, and solve math problems, but they can also do so much more than was available to them in public school. The only requirements I had of them was that they figure out what they were interested in, study it, put the time into working at it until they PRODUCED something.

[@barbaragray7883]

Thanks for bringing this Prussian background to light. I came across these issues and many other issues in child indoctrination back in 1991. That's why I began homeschooling my children. Everyone says not to homeschool children with special needs. But I began homeschooling BECAUSE I had children with special needs. My children have since thanked me.

[@captainsirk1173]

I always did great in school. Good grades. Engaged in the lectures. All that stuff. Now I feel all but incapable of self guided learning, which is really tough as an aspiring artist who never had time to take a visual art class in middle and high school. It feels like something I should love, but I have this perfectionism, and every time I do something, I feel like I'm not as good as it as I should be at this point in my life, and get incredibly discouraged. I consider myself a creative person, but don't know how to actually be creative. I wish I'd had an education like this. I wish I already had skills that are harder to learn now. I'm sure I'll figure stuff out, but it would be really nice if I already had. Catching up seems a heck of a lot more daunting than staying ahead.

[@dementecato]

It Sounds very familiar. For me Steven's persfield "the war of art" and Elizabeth Gilbert's "big magic" books have been inspiring. At the end of the day, it's all about fear. Good luck.

[@DuckieMcduck]

Studying about art is to artists what studying birds is to birds. Find yourself the cheapest entry-level thing for whatever you want and mess with it. Embrace that it sucks.

[@GenuineLhachwen]

One thing I suggest you teach yourself? 'Perfection' is impossible. Not improbable but impossible. It is also boring especially regarding art. The most engaging art is imperfect. The best lines aren't straight but anything other than perfectly ruled. Allowing oneself the opportunity to 'fail' is the best way to create inspired work. Unlearn the idea of being a perfectionist. Sincerely, from a recovering perfectionist lol.

[@crabglen]

Perfectionism says, “Why try, it won’t be perfect.” or, “Why try, you’re too late.” Excellence says, “Try, and learn, and try, and learn, and you’ll get better.” and, “The next best time to start is now.” As a recovering perfectionist, I try to remind myself that, “Practice makes better.” Perfectionism is a prison that melts away when you give yourself permission to try, and then try again. The only true type of failure is the failure to try. Good luck!

[@davidfleuchaus]

I have two examples: 1. a successful perfectionist (who is also gifted but more than that, a hard worker) 2. A perfectionist who is too nice, afraid to “dent the world,” too knowledgeable to allow for experiential learning. Pat Metheny works hard. Always has. His standards are high and his devotion to his craft are humble, sincere, honoring. The value of music is so high that he honors it by humbly working hard. He calls himself to that high calling and expects others to honor music to that degree too. But he also delivers. He clearly communicates his sophisticated ideas to people who deserve to be served - to people who work hard and deserve to be presented with something that enriches them. I myself was wired to lead AND to serve but my story has included way too much deferential service to others and too much preparation without enough action. What led me to finally produce was acceptance. And wonder actually. And acknowledging that I actually have no idea how good and bad some creation of mine will be beforehand or in the middle of creating it. I was afraid of failure. Then I was afraid of success as great things poured out of me. Eventually I just realized I was a conduit of sorts and my role was to let the flow flow, judging it after. Starting with “‘As is’ Dave” put me in the place to launch. So be perfectionist, be exacting but launch, produce, evaluate and improve after, serve and work hard and just be who you really are today. You will be surprised that you actually already are sophisticated and pretty great but need a lot more time creating to clear things out and get the flow flowing.

[@codegeek98]

Your "adversarial" conversation style has really become an art over the past year. You always look for the most valid criticism you can imagine, and then just *pose it* (with a de minimis apology) and let the counterparty address it as they will. It's extremely engaging and educational to watch.

[@vinceocratic]

JP’s “hello everyone,” intro was awesome. It warmed my heart to hear because it showed how healthy and back to life he is.

[@EmilynWood]

I am SO thankful more people are making schools like this, or even just schools that are attempting to really make the most of the time they keep students locked up in classrooms, because this is the sort of thing that would have helped me a lot to learn how to make decisions for myself once finishing college. I know what I want to do with my life, but it is very difficult to set goals right now and to meet them out of a sense of anxiety about doing the "wrong" thing first. Even the weekly meeting with the three questions of "What did you accomplish last week, what do you want to do this week, and what is a concern you have etc." sounds so useful for developing orientation for every week and eventually learning how to plan out the rest of your life tentatively and efficiently year by year. I will start implementing that in my own life. Right now my weekly "goals" are very small scale but I know it's what I can handle aiming for with the expectation of fulfilling them, and with the freedom of doing more than I planned if I end up doing that. Got to start somewhere. Excited to hear about how the school in the UK is doing!

[@luanawarden7979]

Thank you from my heart and my sense of responsibility to my family to remain connected as a family of support for each of us. As a grandparent of 74, I’ve seen our world change so drastically from trusted community of family to a world of all about me, the right of the individual over the well being of the family/community. My heart breaks as I see my children and grandchildren trying to negotiate rough seas ahead, not sure of where they will land in a future so fragile. Again thank you for giving me something to share with them that could help to give them something to steady their progress into the future. 🙏😊❤️

[@uoy3604]

you have 74 grandchildren???????

[@cafe4kidsplayshop]

Playshop 4 Kids™ [C(reativity) A(musement) F(reedom) E(nglish) 4 Kids Playshop™], founded in 2014, is 3-4 years ahead of Finland and 10 years ahead of the fine and refined examples in the US. Without a sizeable founding capital, we are where one could only hope to be within the Turkish capitalist system. Thank you Mr. Peterson and Mr. Lahn for showing us our own value. We wish you kindly all the success in all your endeavors and all the best from the bottom of our hearts. Sincerely, Deniz Oygur, Founder Friendtor, Playshop 4 Kids.

[@williamadams4855]

I teach Fire Science at my local public high school. So glad I have come across this and the other Acton video. I've been developing my lesson plans to mirror these concepts.

[@thechallengedgardener2024]

What is Fire Science? Learning how to deal with fire for instance as a cook? how to fight fire as a member of a fire crew (I live next to a natural reserve in Australia)? How to build a camp fire?

[@williamadams4855]

@thechallengedgardener2024 It's a churched up word that means I teach students how to be fire fighters.

[@kerrychandler6740]

Agree 100% I homeschool for 2years I am fortunate to have found a school (that was founded during covid) that is private (yes does cost us money every month) that educates our children in this way. It’s k-8th the children buddy up with other piers. Classroom time is limited; more outside, group learning. No homework. Schedule is 9-2 I love it so far. Parents are hands on an apart of decisions being made at our child’s school. I am here in CA happy to have found this school for my oldest child especially in this state.

[@grannyannie2948]

I'm Australian and I'm very impressed with my state's rural parish schools which my gkids attend. Homeschooling does not suit every parent or child. Our main concern was escaping the sexualisation of children in government schools curriculum. The fees are $2000 per child. Many families spend more than this on silly things.

[@cheryl8780]

I remember I struggled to do math times tables in elementary school. The teacher was giving out stars for completion. You had to recite them and you would get a star. I was behind the other students. I study so hard with the flash cards with my mom. I was so proud I finally got it. I repeated them to my teacher thinking she would be proud of me and give me a star too. Instead, I got a dissaproving look, and she told me I was too late. I did not get a star or a even a good job. I have to wonder if encouragement at that age might have changed how I did with math in the future. I struggled and never made it past basic algebra.

[@dmonmaney7153]

Having raised 7 children, I heartily agree to this type of learning. As adults, they have lively discussions with varying opinions. It always ends with laughter and respect for one another. They went to public school and I encouraged them to speak up respectfully and take responsibility for their lives in school. They could call me anytime to help them navigate the system. Most times they were able to handle it.

[@modiceinsanus]

I think the rigidity of school is primarily what has lead to the stagnation of our sciences... the authoratative model of learning kills agency in my opinion

[@ericfarina3935]

"In regard to every form of human activity it is necessary that the question should be asked from time to time, What is its purpose and ideal? In what way does it contribute to the beauty of human existence? As respects those pursuits which contribute only remotely, by providing the mechanism of life, it is well to be reminded that not the mere fact of living is to be desired, but the art of living in the contemplation of great things. Still more in regard to those avocations which have no end outside themselves, which are to be justified, if at all, as actually adding to the sum of the world's permanent possessions, it is necessary to keep alive a knowledge of their aims, a clear prefiguring vision of the temple in which creative imagination is to be embodied. The fulfilment of this need, in what concerns the studies forming the material upon which custom has decided to train the youthful mind, is indeed sadly remote-so remote as to make the mere statement of such a claim appear preposterous. Great men, fully alive to the beauty of the contemplations to whose service their lives are devoted, desiring that others may share in their joys, persuade mankind to impart to the successive generations the mechanical knowledge without which it is impossible to cross the threshold. Dry pedants possess themselves of the privilege of instilling this knowledge: they forget that it is to serve but as a key to open the doors of the temple; though they spend their lives on the steps leading up to those sacred doors, they turn their backs upon the temple so resolutely that its very existence is forgotten, and the eager youth, who would press forward to be initiated to its domes and arches, is bidden to turn back and count the steps." -Bertrand Russell, "The Study of Mathematics"

[@modiceinsanus]

@TheDolphinTuna mostly in digital and engineering advancements... hard sciences haven't done much... look at all scientific breakthroughs in the last 100 years and you'll notice a drastic slow down.. Especially in physics, they wasted a lot of brain power on string theory with nothing to show... also change doesnt equal progress... one could argue the change isnt positive for us

[@ericfarina3935]

@@TheDolphinTuna Is change the same thing as progress? Primarily we see progress in the modern sense as the advancement of technology that stores/transmits information or reduces labor. But we also see, for example, an increase in depression, anxiety, and other mental health issues. Perhaps all this "progress" has somehow contributed to the stagnation of the soul? One of my favorite philosophers, Bertrand Russell, in one of my favorite essays of all time, "The Place of Science in a Liberal Education", wrote in part: "Science, to the ordinary reader of newspapers, is represented by a varying selection of sensational triumphs, such as wireless telegraphy and aeroplanes radio-activity and the marvels of modern alchemy. It is not of this aspect of science that I wish to speak. Science, in this aspect, consists of detached up-to-date fragments, interesting only until they are replaced by something newer and more up-to-date, displaying nothing of the systems of patiently constructed knowledge out of which, almost as a casual incident, have come the practically useful results which interest the man in the street. The increased command over the forces of nature which is derived from science is undoubtedly an amply sufficient reason for encouraging scientific research, but this reason has been so often urged and is so easily appreciated that other reasons, to my mind quite as important, are apt to be overlooked. It is with these other reasons, especially with the intrinsic value of a scientific habit of mind in forming our outlook on the world, that I shall be concerned in what follows. The instance of wireless telegraphy will serve to illustrate the difference between the two points of view. Almost all the serious intellectual labour required for the possibility of this invention is due to three men-Faraday, Maxwell, and Hertz. In alternating layers of experiment and theory these three men built up the modern theory of electromagnetism, and demonstrated the identity of light with electromagnetic waves. The system which they discovered is one of profound intellectual interest, bringing together and unifying an endless variety of apparently detached phenomena, and displaying a cumulative mental power which cannot but afford delight to every generous spirit. The mechanical details which remained to be adjusted in order to utilise their discoveries for a practical system of telegraphy demanded, no doubt, very considerable ingenuity, but had not that broad sweep and that universality which could give them intrinsic interest as an object of disinterested contemplation. From the point of view of training the mind, of giving that well-informed, impersonal outlook which constitutes culture in the good sense of this much-misused word, it seems to be generally held indisputable that a literary education is superior to one based on science. Even the warmest advocates of science are apt to rest their claims on the contention that culture ought to be sacrificed to utility. Those men of science who respect culture, when they associate with men learned in the classics, are apt to admit, not merely politely, but sincerely, a certain inferiority on their side, compensated doubtless by the services which science renders to humanity, but none the less real. And so long as this attitude exists among men of science, it tends to verify itself: the intrinsically valuable aspects of science tend to be sacrificed to the merely useful, and little attempt is made to preserve that leisurely, systematic survey by which the finer quality of mind is formed and nourished... Education, in the sense in which I mean it, may be defined as the formation, by means of instruction, of certain mental habits and a certain outlook on life and the world. It remains to ask ourselves, what mental habits, and what sort of outlook, can be hoped for as the result of instruction? When we have answered this question we can attempt to decide what science has to contribute to the formation of the habits and outlook which we desire. Our whole life is built about a certain number-not a very small number-of primary instincts and impulses. Only what is in some way connected with these instincts and impulses appears to us desirable or important; there is no faculty, whether "reason" or "virtue" or whatever it may be called, that can take our active life and our hopes and fears outside the region controlled by these first movers of all desire. Each of them is like a queen-bee, aided by a hive of workers gathering honey; but when the queen is gone the workers languish and die, and the cells remain empty of their expected sweetness. So with each primary impulse in civilised man: it is surrounded and protected by a busy swarm of attendant derivative desires, which store up in its service whatever honey the surrounding world affords. But if the queen-impulse dies, the death-dealing influence, though retarded a little by habit, spreads slowly through all the subsidiary impulses, and a whole tract of life becomes inexplicably colourless. What was formerly full of zest, and so obviously worth doing that it raised no questions, has now grown dreary and purposeless: with a sense of disillusion we inquire the meaning of life, and decide, perhaps, that all is vanity. The search for an outside meaning that can compel an inner response must always be disappointed: all "meaning" must be at bottom related to our primary desires, and when they are extinct no miracle can restore to the world the value which they reflected upon it. The purpose of education, therefore, cannot be to create any primary impulse which is lacking in the uneducated; the purpose can only be to enlarge the scope of those that human nature provides, by increasing the number and variety of attendant thoughts, and by showing where the most permanent satisfaction is to be found. Under the impulse of a Calvinistic horror of the "natural man," this obvious truth has been too often misconceived in the training of the young; "nature" has been falsely regarded as excluding all that is best in what is natural, and the endeavour to teach virtue has led to the production of stunted and contorted hypocrites instead of full-grown human beings. From such mistakes in education a better psychology or a kinder heart is beginning to preserve the present generation; we need, therefore, waste no more words on the theory that the purpose of education is to thwart or eradicate nature. But although nature must supply the initial force of desire, nature is not, in the civilised man, the spasmodic, fragmentary, and yet violent set of impulses that it is in the savage. Each impulse has its constitutional ministry of thought and knowledge and reflection, through which possible conflicts of impulses are foreseen, and temporary impulses are controlled by the unifying impulse which may be called wisdom. In this way education destroys the crudity of instinct, and increases through knowledge the wealth and variety of the individual's contacts with the outside world, making him no longer an isolated fighting unit, but a citizen of the universe, embracing distant countries, remote regions of space, and vast stretches of past and future within the circle of his interests. It is this simultaneous softening in the insistence of desire and enlargement of its scope that is the chief moral end of education. Closely connected with this moral end is the more purely intellectual aim of education, the endeavour to make us see and imagine the world in an objective manner, as far as possible as it is in itself, and not merely through the distorting medium of personal desire. The complete attainment of such an objective view is no doubt an ideal, indefinitely approachable, but not actually and fully realisable. Education, considered as a process of forming our mental habits and our outlook on the world, is to be judged successful in proportion as its outcome approximates to this ideal; in proportion, that is to say, as it gives us a true view of our place in society, of the relation of the whole human society to its non-human environment, and of the nature of the non-human world as it is in itself apart from our desires and interests. If this standard is admitted, we can return to the consideration of science, inquiring how far science contributes to such an aim, and whether it is in any respect superior to its rivals in educational practice."

[@ericfarina3935]

@@modiceinsanus Physics is hung up on a simple conceptual barrier that they can't bring themselves to confront, because it undermines their authoritarian and dogmatic view of the universe as a mathematical construct. In an effort to explain it away, they have spent countless hours crafting convoluted and grandiose theories while ignoring the fundamental problem. The fundamental problem in Relativity is the singularity, and the simple resolution is to think of the singularity not as a discrete "point" in space and time, but as a wave in spacetime with no upwards limit to its frequency. Due to the limits of human observation, a wave in spacetime increasing indefinitely in frequency would be indistinguishable from a point, which is why it appears that the Universe emerged spontaneously from a point, even though the Universe is actually an infinite progression expanding from a shared space, what we would call a "common origin". Because this common origin is actually a wave increasing indefinitely in frequency and not a discrete point in spacetime, we must conclude that even though the Universe appears to originate from a point, the origin, as the Universe, is and must be infinite. Logically it follows that the infinite present (as a consequence of the infinite past) is dynamic ( *not* pre-determined), and the future is unpredictable ( *not* certain). All these facts are quite clear, and it takes no extraordinary mind to consider them. Through dogma and arrogance much of the theoretical physics community at large have embarrassed themselves, and built a monument to their ignorance all in the name of "progress".

[@benign4823]

​@@ericfarina3935nobody's gonna read your random pseudo intelligent rambling

[@rdinetainmoun5549]

Jordan's ability to adjust to the pace of the one who he converses with shows a great deal of empathy. It is quite blissful to watch him interact with wide variety of people and get his interactions with them to be as relatable as he can manage.

[@ewinbarnett9411]

Those in the homeschooling community often refer to the public system as factory schools, primarily because the students are moved along through the lesson plan. Every child has their own relationship with the bell curve. For some topics at any time the child may be higher or lower on the curve, but the teacher must drag the whole class along to finish on time. Some children zoom ahead, but many fall behind at times. This is apart from having a structure that lends to training for work in a factory setting.

[@ISTPx5w6]

Exactly and in state schools in England generally the gifted children shouldn't be 'too gifted' as to warrant being 'special needs' as that would put a spanner in the conveyor belt. I had one teach who genuinely encouraged independence of thought but most teachers saw it as a hindrance to getting through the 'tick a box' curriculum. Whether people like it or not, gifted children are special needs & require a different approach as do those who genuinely struggle. It just shows that money & societal privilege can effectively buy you that support in private education (at least here in the UK) but if you're from a working class environment invariably you have an insurmountable wall to climb as even the top 2 institutions are biased towards privately educated individuals irrespective of giftedness (50% of admissions are from private schools or 54 I can't remember but they constitute the minority); there's no parity of esteem & I find that ironic that supposedly cerebral institutions discriminate based upon class as opposed to raw credentials. How is an A* grade from a state school child who's had no guidance the same as a privately educated child who's been given a privilege tailored education etc the same as their A*, yet saying it's parity of esteem by having the same admission grades is the status quo. I hate discrimination where it's covertly masked behind a cerebral facade. Many state school children also need to work to fund having any kind of life outside school or to fund the extracurricular activities they're supposed to be doing outside of school whereas those who are privately educated don't work & have social contacts to get them the best work experience and personal statement etc. I actually have a friend who works at a private school who said that the pressure is intense; as parents are paying high fees they expect their daughter who would 'naturally' get a D grade if she were at a state school/her level of ability, to get an A or at least a B grade - anything else is out of the question..she's practically written coursework for them, it's just the done thing. I had an old boyfriend who was privately educated who wasn't bright at all (which is fine - I'm not making a moral judgment at all) & he got three Bs at A level - completely unfair.

[@codeman97521]

Thank you Dr. Peterson. You are a great inspiration and motivation for many.

[@thatguybrooke]

I can't wait for more of these types of schools to pop up! *and I believe they really will*

[@thetruthstrangerthanfictio954]

@Pailins-Kitchen- go spam somewhere else will you?

[@georgeo785]

End government education

[@clariba3452]

Tears streaming. Our kids need those choices to develop free and in unconditional love

[@onegorgeouschick]

Mine too

[@serpentines6356]

I don't buy the unconditional love. Or, just being"free". "Unconditional love" has turned a lot of kids into brats.

[@georgeo785]

End government education

[@crazyleaf257]

So grateful for my homeschool experience. I was taught all the fundamentals and yes a lot of it was sit down and learn but and my high school years it was all self-motivated work and brainstorming and working towards the future taking classes that would help me towards my career goal and researching my career goal

[@Nicole-kk6bx]

We can’t all be podcasters and academics. The world has many. Tasks that need to be done. I was ok at school but couldn’t concentrate there but I’d been socialized for office work. I burnt out in the office and my physical and mental health suffered. Took me a long time time to find something I could make money at that was actually useful to someone other than myself that also wasn’t mentally draining on me. I’m a big rig truck driver now. I can’t say it’s a great job. The risk is high and I forfeit my prospects to be a mother but I can survive without crushing my soul.

[@gabrielleannwilson]

You are the glue that holds us all together! I’m glad you found a calling!

[@Nicole-kk6bx]

@@gabrielleannwilson lol thank you. It’s not a calling for me tho. I just needed something the government couldn’t broadly impose lockdowns upon. That could change but I just needed money.

[@cyberphoenix2523]

I was in a project-based learning program for around 2 years in high school, and when I say that I learned so much more in those 2 years than all the others combined is an understatement. It functioned very similar to that of how Zach Lahn's school currently works. I feel like it both changed how I did my schoolwork to how I functioned in a daily life. I don't think I would be half the person I am today, without it. I can heavily vouch for this type of learning not just because I went through it and passed it, but also the skills you obtain from programs/school like this, gives so much more than is given credit for.

[@building-gno-seas]

In all honesty, I learned far more skills about life and sustaining myself from my parents and grandparents than I ever did in school. I grew up in rural, blue-collar Ohio, building things...outdoor structures, barns and later homes. We weren't farmers in the sense that we farmed and sold our produce. But we lived on what we grew, and we worked hard at it. Having said that, as a teenager in the early to mid eighties. All I wanted was to get away from that life and live it up like the Rockstars I was seeing on MTV. And so, I went down that path for 18 years. And due to a bad accident where I was injured, and spent a year recovering. I found myself faced with a situation where I needed to do something else. So, I shifted gears and went to college at 30 years old and became a scientist and then a few years later, a teacher. I'm still teaching now, but on the other side of the planet. It's been yet another 15 odd years since then and with what's been happening lately in education. I'm really looking forward to retiring as soon as possible. I used to have some freedom in what I taught and how I taught. And my classes are usually the classes that all the students love to come to, because I don't pander to them or put too much stress on them. We have a bit of fun and enjoy our class together. I never shove any kind of socio-psychologic or socio-political rhetoric on my students. We just learn something new each day. That's my teaching philosophy. I don't try to create robots and I don't expect my students to take on all of the world's weight in order to influence them in a specific way, or push them in a particular direction. That's not my job as a teacher. Sure, there are always students who are already inclined through their other environmental in teractions, to lean a certain way, or to bring into class with them, certain ideas and ideologies that they are wrestling with. And we sometimes get drawn off topic by a students notion or question. It's something that we may end up spending a little time addressing if the students want to spend a little time doing it. I always ask if the occasion arises. However, I'm not in the habit of moving the class in a particular direction, if it's outside of the scope of the lesson. But lately, I have noticed a different kind of a push and pushback, centered around the educational resources. Last semester, I found an alarming amount of misinformation in our textbooks. So much so, that I began fact checking nearly every single thing in our books. And what I found was a great deal of antiquated, misinformation that involved primarily, systemic methodologies. I was seeing an abrupt shift in information that appeared to me to be directly juxtaposed to any kind of critical thinking or individualism. And in my mind, fostered more of trend in social organization through a series of guided scenarios, with a direct aim at globalization being the only suitable outcome or maybe the best potential lesson learned from the lessons in the textbooks. It really got me thinking and after a year of teaching it, I realized what was being done. The textbook companies are creating the future that the investors in the companies want to see, however I do not yet know where they are getting their influence from. They are forming the future using a pre-shaped globalist ideology and putting it into print for the students. And using various ques, trigger points and misinformation. In order to affect/infect students minds to cause them to think a certain way... A mind-virus. Facts, often times do not matter. And most teachers are too busy, to spend time fact checking every lesson. But when I brought this up. I was immediately shut down, called a few names and even shunned to a degree. The industry of education has a very, very fragile ego. It doesn't like being challenged and very much likes to maintain a status-quo, to insure it's own security and dominance. It's actually rather alarming. So now, I have to teach but explain to the students why it's important to cross reference and fact check everything...even what I teach them. It's a terrible time in history to be a student or a teacher. Authoritarianism is on the rise globally. We really need to stand up to this. But it's going to take a great deal of diligence on the part of everyone to figure out who is behind it. Something/someone big is at work here. They are trying to shift the consciousness of the entire planet using the information that's being spoon fed to the students. There needs to be a consortium formed that reviews teaching resources, so that these information/book peddlers are held to a higher standard.

[@realc7777]

Thank you 🤗

[@joshuathomas6100]

As a product of the public school system, I can attest to the fact that, when it comes to reading, I only ever learned anything from classic books if I picked them up voluntarily. I went through so many books, especially during high school, that I basically skimmed or didn't read at all only to find myself picking them up now and gaining understanding from them.

[@nancyinderwiesen8587]

Great interview! How much better could our society be if all schools were like this. Thank you for what you do.

[@georgeo785]

Private schools

[@hannahd.3313]

I really want to find a place like this for my kids when they get old enough - otherwise homeschooling is likely. I'm glad to see places like this exist!

[@deborahmyers5205]

This school sounds very much like a 'Free School ' program I participated in while in 5-7th grades in the 70's. I went to my usual gradeschool except for Wednesdays. There were kids from all over Chicago and Facilitators, but we were left to study whatever we wanted and if we needed help, there were older kids or a Teacher to help. In 5th or 6th grade, my regular school teacher called my mother to say that he didn't think I should be reading 'Great Expectations '. She told him that if the book was Beyond my grasp, I would be BORED and quit reading.

[@MrGeorge514131]

I ( and 4 or 5 ) others were targeted and expelled from High school for no other reason than nonconformity, an American Catholic high school in Melbourne, Australia. I went from being an A student to a D very quickly from boredom with subject matter. The best thing that ever happened to me, I have always believed that the path we choose is our greatest teacher and the more difficult that path the better the lesson. It didn’t take very long to come to the realisation that life’s path is not about reaching that idealised destination but about the experiences we face along the path, I revelled in walking through the mire next deep in shit, living life on the edge was the best education I received. When I eventually returned to formal education as a mature age student the head of department confided once that the he system is designed around the concept of “getting them out there and working “ which to my mind had nothing to do with filling the individual growth and needs of the students but filling the coffers of a failed system’s with Tax dollars. I returned to my errant ways and spent 5 years in a “super max” prison for a fabricated crime ( which by very nature was impossible for me to commit) but I understood it to be nothing more than the politics of the system, not being one to let system get the better of me I realised that in reality 4 walls don’t make a prison but the true prison was the restriction of positive free thought. I enjoyed every day during my incarceration, I had the respect of every faction and rival gang using the greatest lesson life taught me which was to treat everyone the way I would like to be treated and not to pretend to be that which I am not. I returned to the education system and following my current passion I returned to A+ levels. My point is this, without inspiring a passion for learning to the young and that experience is the teacher the only result will be the the creation of puppets. For humanity to progress this current direction has to change urgently , the collapse is evident, Good luck to all…….

[@MeBe35]

God bless you for being interesting 🙏 That was an honest good read.

[@MrGeorge514131]

@@MeBe35 my sincerest thanks for spending the time to read my post, I have been totally honest and believe that at this point in time society is at a crossroads and depending which direction we take our future will be decided. Life has taught me that optimism is a delusional philosophy. The forces of darkness exist only because they have been invited….. You , me and everyone else are responsible for writing the future, life is about choices, make sure it’s a good one….. Later my friend, good luck, love and respect to you

[@thechallengedgardener2024]

Amem!

[@usofdenmark]

Jordan if you go to one of their schools pleas document it somehow, I would love to see a concrete example of how revolutionizing the school system would work and i doubt i am the only one :) I think your large platform would be a great place to showcase it

[@shippys2043]

I love this discussion. So much admiration for the passion and bravery of this educational pioneer. Given the current sad state of most schools today it’s heartening to see this.

[@matthewknight5641]

Both my grandfather's and my father taught me all the knew with mechanics and carpentry and repair and maintenance. It's been an education that has been priceless and I am so grateful I had them for the time I did. It's made me successful in many ways and given me alot of self worth and a worth to the ones I love and take care of. Fathers and grandfather's thankyou

[@LuxyJewelry]

Just discovered Jordan Peterson roughly a month ago and he is my new favorite person. Love his brain love the way he sees the world and most importantly his ability to deliver it to others. Good job! Thank you for all you create.

[@jimarger8533]

Retired Toronto teacher here who's taught in a variety of schools. No school or system was creative or particularly industrious in my opinion. However, THAT can be found, imo, within the individual teachers. I did notice that those whom were motivated to escape the classroom sought admin positions and the best teachers (leaders) did not.

[@glassladder7973]

Kids need to be curious and need to be able to set goals and meet those goals. They need to be able to play. They need to be able to fail and overcome their failures. They need to exercise their intuitive abilities. They need to create. They need to learn to be fearless. They need to learn to be cooperative and independent. I still think that bridging the IB structure, the Waldorf model, the Montessori model and adding a few new elements would be worth thinking about. I have taught for 28 years and have seen methods that work and others that don't work. One activity could be to create an escape room titled "Escape the Tyranny", (in person room) that way kids could really learn to problem solve a very important dilemma in the world! P.S. If I didn't read "Paradise Lost" in high school and get help from my professor about understanding it better, I am not sure if I would have continued reading profound books in my life, so there is something to be said about reading the classics and more challenging books in high school.

[@nataliek5134]

Love that idea!

[@rockymountainhomesteadwith8092]

So thankful Ive been able to homeschool my kids the past decade. Its been a blessing to them and me. They have so many more oppurtunities and experiences than they would if they were in a school system all day. Great interview!

[@Serraainc]

I’m a 26 years old Iraqi clinical pharmacist. My name is Serraa Khaphají. And this is a message to Dr. Peterson. I’ve been a student of your teachings since 2017, and I cannot help but agree with the majority of what you teach, share, voice, and believe. The reason that got me to comment today is this: I’ve overheard my parents watching an Iraqi interview between a tv show host and an activist, discussing the concept of the ‘social gender’, and the conspicuous opinion -now- that gender includes the social, psychological, cultural and behavioral aspects of both biological genders and ‘supposedly’ other gender-identity. This ideology is being openly discussed here in Iraq, on the political front, but not yet socially. We Iraqis have the not-so-intellectual attitude to care about ‘trend’ a little bit more than necessary, and to be entirely honest, I am terrified. Iraq has been the closest thing to the host of multi-angled totalitarian despotism ever since 1978, or maybe before that. Politically, religiously, and socially, Iraq has been abused far more than what’s imaginable, and it is not getting any better, not with this. Why? Is the Left absolutely scared of their ‘theory’ falling out of proportion to the point they have to push it to another country to support it? Why this? People here have been confused as it is about raising their children since the 80s, and I know it never looked like it was getting any better (at least across my personal lifespan), but this? This where our politics still doesn’t accept homosexuality? I always agree with your notion about specifying a place to stay the hell away from, I never thought though, that this place would be my country, not to this extent. I hope this gets discussed by intellects like you, who search and seek the truth, and I hope you see this, because truly, never have I felt before to this degree, that things are spilling uncontrollably out of hands. Thank you…

[@jtitus062006]

We have so much access to information and educational resources right now. I like the idea of learning necessities and encouraging learning more as desired or becomes necessary for career or project advancement. Sure, some subjects require labs and hand on learning, but we need to stop gatekeeping these careers behind all measures except capabilities. I'm thinking of the Canadian geese that show up on the Detroit River. There are often a few mothers with all the little ones in a separate area. So it does happen naturally somewhere at least.

[@celiaflinn7737]

Loved this interview, it opened my mind…..always a good thing! I would also love to hear more about Ralston College. Maybe an interview with someone there. I have stopped donations to my colleges because of their woke indoctrination and I’m looking to support other schools with more open ideas about the future.

[@MrMoonFlame]

Watching this triggered a recollection of a seminar I saw maybe 20 years ago at the University of Central Florida from computer programmer who worked for one of the big companies (EA maybe) who made video games for play station. I was stunned to learn that they had created their own middle and high schools to educate future computer programmers and game creators because the standard public schools were not producing enough high school graduates with the self directed agency and competency to meet their projected business growth models. Now it all makes sense. Great interview!

[@selenehenry3040]

I found his getting to an apprenticeship very helpful. My daughter will have to do an internship this next school year. I made her watch that part with me. She hates when I make her watch Peterson. But found this to be very helpful by exposing her to little bits and then having a conversation about it. We just had break troughs with our relationship because of doing this. Just wish the bits I want to show to her and discuss with her were easier to find. She doesn't listen if I try to make her listen to entire thing. Thank you for helping with that breakthrough. ❤

[@davidfleuchaus]

I fell asleep to this two or three times last night overnight. That’s not a sign of disinterest. That’s a sign of working hard to be a good dad to three kids between the ages of 5 and 7. My kids are bored in school. At first compliant/bored/disappointed moods blanketed their previously activated and animated selves but now their edges are already rounded off as they got filed down to fit into the machine of public school. It’s sad and it enrages me. My children are truly bright - my wife is smart. (While we were dating I noticed her reaction to untranslated foreign words in a movie and I paused the movie to inquire. She knows a few languages but the one on the screen was totally unrelated. In real time she figured it out. My kids definitely inherited some of that.) They sparkle with observation and maturity, wisdom and inquiry but school seems to be hurting them. I’ll be listening to this video with great interest soon.

[@serpentines6356]

Good for you dad! I was bored out of mind in school. I just wanted to run around and play, but I also had horrid, abusive teachers, that picked on me, it being a private school. (2nd grade teacher I liked, she wasn't abusive, and didn't pick on me). I love learning on my own, and have braniacs in the family. Am also more of a "kinetic", "visual" type learner. Love art, dance, psychology, traveling, etc. Like to read, but not like the family braniacs. Have read about various alternative education over the years. You are right to explore ideas, and methods on various educational avenues. You know what your kids interests are, and what inspires them to learn. Keep that flame alive, alive, alive. And don't be afraid of challenging them. Create things, (painting, sculpture, building a table, make a little go cart, etc), doing things, family adventures, family journeys, sports, gardens, etc. The world is a big place to explore! I would take the kids to everything I could think of, and do "hands on" learning. Family concerts, mostly classical, learn the names of the instruments, and listen to how they sound. At intermission, I would try and catch a musician, and ask them to tell us why they love playing that particular instrument. Would ask them, what ones do you think you like the most? Have them learn to play an instrument, even if not good at it. Even for a time is better than none, imho. Theater, plays, dances, science museums, history museums, astrology night, ecology wild cats event (we have people who take care of wild cats), an "African Safari" place where I live, etc. Read to them some good books, including novels when older, fiction, nonfiction, whatever you all like. Kids love storytelling and being read to. Storytelling was how humans learned for thousands of years. Sitting around the fire, the elders told their stories, and passed on wisdom. It's good family time. Stay away from screens as much as possible. VERY bad for the attention span. I am a big fan of good movies though, especially good american classics, and foreign films. Food, explore, explore, explore. Took my goddaughter to the Sushi bar when she was 4, since she was very socially conscientious and was quite mature. She had the tempura. She tried one bite of my Sushi, and wouldn't swallow it, and sat there like a squirrel with her mouth full, because I told her the chef is right there, it would be very rude to spit it out. She did swallow it after I bribed her with the after dinner mint. Essentials I consider every home should have. A big besutiful globe! The great American, European novels. Shakespeare. Have fun. Life is an adventure. Oh, dear...So much for my rant...

[@OccamsRazor393]

Waiting with excitement for Peterson Academy.

[@nour9067]

This conversation is so nice to hear. Because we can feel as a student if you stay critical of the institution that it is indeed doing so many things wrong. And only so little people in the group will admit it (even though I have met countless people that had the same problem as me in school). It is the same for where I have learn music and how to play an instrument : it destroyed my love for playing it and never ever ever ever questionned my own little individual love of music. It never ever ever worked on helping me loving this activity more ! I feel like so many things you said in this conversation relate so well to conversation I had with friends or even just little voices in my head hinting me that this was a shit hole. Thank you deeply, reallllllllyyyyyyyy reaaaaaalllly, a lot lot lot lot lot. Thank you, thank you so much.

[@MishaSkripach]

Learning music is hard!

[@PhoticPhotography]

Great interview as always, I also LOVE the décor in this room we are in, the couch made me laugh, it is one couch, as two, that is a neat design! Thank you and happy Monday!

[@ChristopherRyans]

Looking forward to this episode thanks Jordan have a great day!

[@tarafox6618]

I enjoyed learning from John Taylor Gatto...the title caught my eye and reminds me of Gatto's thoughts toward schools. As a home schooling mom of eight, I appreciated his encouragement and endorsement to nurture creativity, learning how to learn and pursuit of self worth apart from a brick n mortar institution. I look forward to listening to this interview. With some of my children grown, I don't regret the sacrifice we've made to invest into them, rather than attain more things. God bless.

[@SeegerG]

This episode is explosively exciting for me. One of the "humdingers" as it gives my heart rest in knowing there is an appropriate thought of school! Loaded with new concepts and high value review. Also the exchange of scepticism and rebuttal is model and ideal between two parties. Maybe I'm excited because I don't have kids and lack exposure to the discussion... but the idea of childrearing becomes more inviting in me which is a difficulty indeed. Jordan your work is so massively influential and beneficial I'm grateful to not have to inventory...and I love spychological inventory! Thank you both a thousand times. Giants for who's shoulders to stand upon. Hurrah!

[@Mrs.wendels]

Signed up to see what it takes to expand the schooling, at least to my area, and can’t wait to hear more and see what the next steps are.

[@leemccrosson3284]

This talk is so inspiring and really where my thinking has been for my sons education but so difficult to find schools like that.

[@TheSharpenedPoint]

This is the single most brilliant idea of education I have seen. I understand this as possibly the greatest style of education I have heard of. I have heard it said that if you aim for the goal that everyone else has, you get the same results, but if you create a good process and follow it, you can get somewhere new. Being able to generate new is massive in modern culture.

[@mrs.stocky2445]

I love this! We don’t have a program like this near us, it would be a wonderful option for so many families!! Right now we are doing two co-ops, one in the classical model and the other more free form, books, tuition and all I pay about $700 a year. We spend three days at home working on the material being touched by the co-ops and just living as a family. Our son is flourishing and learning so well. I was a public school teacher before I had him so I am having to teach myself to let go and trust the fact that I see him growing and learning without the traditional public school model.

[@dreamwalkertunes]

I wrote about this problem of the model and origins of the education system when I was in highschool. It’s nice to hear this idea on a large stage.

[@BurntBread910]

One of the biggest things to consider in our schools curriculums, is that it is not geared towards the learners aspirations. Same goes for the college's too. If a kid for example wants to become a firefighter, then why teach calculus to them? Of course its important to master the basics (math, history, reading, and writing) but when you start to throw in all of this extra unnecessary teachings the student has ZERO interest in, then this puts just another burden on their brains they don't need to deal with. Colleges are a fine example of this as well. It all comes down to making money and paying student debt lones. The colleges are hoping you fail all these extra classes that have NOTHING to do with your degree. Simply so they can make more money off of your debt. Im sick and tired of the US and its shenanigans.

[@marcmeinzer8859]

Vocational training should start at age 12. The current approach is unbearably pseudo intellectual for the average person.

[@karrisajoss4271]

Thank you for presenting this intellectual conversation on being wonderfully educated and giving us much to ponder.😊

[@bradysimpson08]

Great work keeping her attention and being so loving and gentle. ❤

[@johnoliver4199]

And one more thing, I am seeing a lot of people here including Jordan that are quite bright naturally from a young age, were fast readers from the get go. I was the opposite, severely dyslexic and did nt learn to read till forth grade( was only saved by one teacher that thank god recognized my problem before it was to late and got me to an incredible remedial reading teacher( who used simple phonetics and a board game!) But I I knew I was intelligent in fact more so than most of the teachers. I am kinda having a flash back right now of what it was like to be one of the “ outsiders non excelling ones” I’m not sure about this school for some “us” Later I caught up through sheer determination and spending a-lot of extra time on HW and surpassed my peers , but even today my reading speed is limited. As great as it all sounds I am not sure if I would have fit in at this place. I am getting a bit of the “oh you go to the community college” attitude one gets from someone enrolled at a Ivy league school.

[@angelines29]

What an inspiring conversation! ❤

[@aligned4good]

When my children were little I used to take them to the local book stores to choose their own books. I have never had trouble getting them to read, I had to encourage them to put the books down so we'll all go out to play, ride bikes, hike etc. T.V was off Monday to Friday (adults and kids). They still love to read, they loved school as well.

[@boolean4]

This was an immensely insightful conversation. One of my favorite yet!

[@moriahlukacs5772]

At over 50, I still want to go to this school.

[@notime2583]

God i wish i studied is a school like that, i was a highly creative kid that love creating lore and drawing, could not pay attention in the boring class because my brain would be exploding with ideas, i would espent most of the class drawing in hidden notebook, but because of that my score were really mediocre and i made me felt a mediocre kid compared to my peers, i have grown up to never realize my true potential, now i am 25 years old working in a job that is cool but no what i feel is my soul call, but since i fineshed college this year i have time again to start praticing my drawing and creative abilites, i hope in the future i can truly reach my potential because drawing and creating lore is one of few things that truly makes me happy.

[@ilb735]

Age is still your friend !... be Happy !...💞

[@shawnaweesner3759]

To @notime2583: You are describing an issue your parents should have addressed, and then worked with the teacher on helping you have a more productive, and fulfilling time in school.

[@ilb735]

@@shawnaweesner3759 parents are not in classrooms. Education should be more accommodating of all 'known' learning styles. 'Institutes of control & Indoctrination' would be a more fitting description.

[@lynnewilson7226]

I love this! I would love this to be in my area. I teach in a local school now. I've been so disappointed with what I see. I homeschooled for 14 years and lived it. We operated much like you! I just can't find anything similar in my area now that homeschool is completed. Thank you for sharing!

[@pure_rot5131]

Mr. Peterson , I am an engineer from India, I have been associated with your content since my high school years , they have given me a new way to think, understand and process the world affairs. I recently saw your colonialism debate with Mr. Nigel Biggar would love to see you have a discussion with Indian MP Mr. Shashi Tharror on our perspective of colonialism or with Indian Foreign Minister Mr. Jaishankar on how neutral countries are operating in these years of world cirsis like war , terrorism and trade wars.

[@Jay_Hendrix]

I was actually really good at math growing up because I was able to think of the math problems like videogame tasks. I can definitely vouch for gamification of learning.

[@gpeti122]

I wish I had that school experience. I can only hope, this type of school will be available in my country when I will have children.

[@raynman9574]

Its fascinating that this has just now appeared in my recommends. My son has struggled at school in his pre-teens and I have been consistent with teachers that he needs a more collaborative approach to schooling. Now on the cusp of his teenage years, with more independent learning, he has recently taken up the piano and has risen to the top of his year in almost every subject except the one class where he feels restricted in the way he can learn...

[@Faus4us]

I'm loving your energy as of late brother. You are shining!

[@Holstson]

This is my lifelong struggle , as the son of teachers, as a pupil and now as a father to my three grown sons . It is with grate regrets I have seen my sons walking through this system, but as mentioned elsewhere in this comments section, I have tried to instruct my children not to let schooling interfere with education…. I am very glad this discussion is facilitated in the public!

[@brentharrington9235]

Dr. Peterson, Please look into the writings and lectures by the late John Taylor Gatto. His views on education are well aligned.

[@yakncast7530]

Underground History of American Education is the definitive book, not just on American education but the history of the human race and the human condition. I know you know that, it's for others who might read your comment. The book is a free online download.

[@brentharrington9235]

@@yakncast7530 JTG was a warrior for the children. A true educator.

[@adamwhite1920]

Good talk! Identifying an individual's skills and abilities should be the core aim of every school while mapping them onto the various different ways society can use them.

[@gbird007]

A school like that sounds wonderful. I hated reading in school so I never read on my own until my mid 20s. At first i only read when I had a new interest/hobby. Now I love to read!! As an adult, I love to learn. I'd be a professional student if I could. I wish I'd had a better introduction with books/reading

[@octoberfox3399]

I wish while I was in high school there would of been a lot more help for figuring out what career I would like.

[@Andrew-cc4vk]

Exactly. Luckily, things worked out for me but I had zero direction after high school. I had no ideas what most careers required or entailed.

[@marisaquintana9943]

In 7th grade I sent my daughter to a school called Imagine Academy based on the Highland Hall model. This school sounds very much like Imagine. She is not a typical learner so we thought it would be a good fit. The system felt disorganized and chaotic to her, to this day, she is 29 now, she saw the school as a year she spent in a place where the inmates ran the asylum. Maybe it is better now with the internet.

[@alyssamiles2909]

Maybe that's what he was talking about, that transplants who are used to different systems don't tend to do well.

[@LV-vw4qs]

I'm a public school high school teacher in California. Many of us are enabling dynamic student based learning communities in our school and having success. A major difference in our constituents is that we are required to take in everyone and have many students who are learning disabled or have ed plans and many of our students are homeless. I'm proud of the people our school turns out, though I do wish we had a higher percentage of high level learners. However, when you see that many of them live no where (as in tents, other family's couches) one can understand.

[@betsysmucker3708]

Jordan Peterson just gets it! We are SOOO Blessed to have him! ❤

[@johnoliver4199]

Ok Jordan , you are really cutting in to my productive time , you and your interviews are absolutely fascinating and so illuminating. Now about one third of the way through I am wondering how the school will handle kids that are not progressing well and seem to be falling behind or a leader that gets impeached . How does the school handle all the potential problems in that realm. Let’s see if they deal with that. Especially as they get into their teens , when it becomes obvious that some young people excel and are almost natural born leaders and some just are not so much naturally lets just say high achievers. And I think some schools like this are getting the brighter better more positively socialized kids in the first place. So. .. yes I like the model, but not sure this is saving the kids that really need to be rescued from “ the system”