Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country #1 - Atop the Fourth Wall

Welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn. In this episode, Linkara looks at the comic adaptation of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country!
atopthefourthwall.com
Originally uploaded September 23rd, 2013.
ORIGINAL INFO: The battle for peace has begun… and actually ended several years ago.
RUMINATIONS: Not much to say about this one, other than at the time of release, there was a lot of debate in the comments concerning the politics of the end of the cold war, whether or not the movie really was based on real world events, and all that minutiae. In the end, it doesn’t really matter - it’s just what the writers have said they based the material off of. As I said in the episode, I quite like Star Trek 6, though it’s far from perfect. Still, Kirk’s ending speech to transition us from the original series to the next generation is very well-written. It’s just a pity that the Next Generation movies, for the most part, didn’t live up to the good average set by the TOS films.

[@jurassickaiju14]

25:45 "Ironic that they worked together to prevent them from working together." There's actually a line in _The Autobiography of James T. Kirk_ that kinda addresses that, from after Admiral Cartwright and the other conspirators have been apprehended. _"They're animals," he said. "We can't live with them." A few days before, I might have agreed with him. But now, I took great pleasure in pointing out something he'd missed._ _"Lance, don't you see? You proved that we _*_can_*_ live with them. You hate Klingons more than anyone, and yet your conspiracy proved that, when Klingons and humans have a common goal, they work together just fine."_ _I'll remember the look on his face for the rest of my life._

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

Just kind of an interesting part on my experience: when I first watched this movie, I had only ever seen David Warner play villain roles, so I assumed from experience that them casting David Warner meant Gorkon was a villain. So, when Kirk had the shock of realizing that Gorkon was totally genuine, I felt the same thing.

[@TheSeptet]

I was in the Navy and I do know that Captains usually have an "open door policy", where the door to their office/quarters is left open so that people can come in and talk to them about whatever. That could be why Kirk's door was open...

[@Mobysimo]

I would think he'd close it while hes making a private log and open it when he's done... But I don't know anything about the navy, so I can't really give the best opinion here

[@arashimiyazawa8165]

"Why was Kirk's door wide open?" The movie actually provides an answer to this through a nice bit of stage business. Kirk's door was wide open because he dropped a duffel bag or something in its path, and it couldn't close. Valeris bends down to pick it up and hands it to Kirk as she enters, and the door shuts behind her. Prior to that you can see the door is open when Kirk paces back and forth, and he doesn't react to it even when he's turned towards it, so that's possibly intentional on his part. Airing out the room or something?

[@AutisticTea]

"Just another reminder that I am a colossal nerd" That you are, you amazing creature, that you are.

[@joshuasepeda3289]

Helene Dupres yeah but you have to hand it to him, he knows how to hide it.😆😆😆 Yeah I started laughing before I finished writing this.

[@AlecDraven]

I love how when Linkara is talking about Star Trek he'll talk about T.V. Episodes or Computer Games that provide information in relation to the film, but when it comes to Star Wars and its vast expanded universe he gets angry when something isn't mentioned to provide context to what's going on. What is it he says?: "It's not in the friggin' movie." "We shouldn't have to look up outside sources to know what's going on." "If it's not in the film, it shouldn't count." Same goes for Trek as well.

[@GanonGhidorah]

22:12 - Well personally Linkara, I think the Peace Conference is going to be a complete debacle. I mean, the representatives from Angel Grove are three teenagers with attitude!

[@destendgem]

Don't worry. There will be peace - there will be peace when the people of the universe want it so badly that their governments will have no choice but to give it to them.

[@117Shinigami]

Rest In Peace, Christopher Plummer

[@Zucca101]

That 'Send me back!' bit had me laughing so hard!

[@on1yadam]

"It takes one to know one" meaning kirk knows how it feels for someone to loose a loves one over political B.S. I understood it and it makes sense.

[@kaicreech7336]

Insurrection is so bad that it doesn't even get a mocking nickname.

[@jakebryant3445]

Does Insurrection even have a comic?

[@Tareltonlives]

A movie so bad it makes Plinkett look like the voice of reason

[@wierdalien1]

Kai Creech insurrection isnt that bad. I personally think its enjoyable its point is valid and everyone does look like they are enjoying themselves unlike Nemesis.

[@Jokie155]

Picard is a war criminal as of that movie. It's point is absurd.

[@terminator324343]

@@Jokie155 Counting the fact that he was totally fine with two previous forced relocations in the show (one of which was done to satisfy a crappy treaty with the Cardassians), Picard, for all his by-the-book nature, is such a hypocrite.

[@WinterSteele]

That "summer in Minnesota" line is worth 10 thumbs up alone ;-D

[@Zenn_Chan]

actually, I quite liked the reference to "Takes one to know one" He's referring to the fact that in the past, he'd had prejudices (though you might argue they're reasonable prejudices considering the Klingons were at war with them), and because of that, he can see the prejudices of those who don't want peace with the Klingons and can relate to them. At least, that was my interpretation of it.

[@wuebboltc]

5:50: Don't worry, Lewis -- the world can always use more colossal nerds like us :)

[@jessaminehaak8253]

That scene about only using thrusters in spacedock is hilarious to me because in the Federation tutorial for Star Trek Online the same thing happens only the captain laughs when you tell him about the regulation and says he was just testing your knowledge of the rules XD Kirk must be a horrible captain to work under unless you're one of his personal friends.

[@chaosinc.382]

"why did Kirk and McCoy need to die?" Because Chang knew that them being alive would come back to bite them in the ass. Which it did.

[@cheezemonkeyeater]

"I think I've been alien-ated." *sigh . . . Kirk, the proper grammar is "alien-eaten."

[@namegoeshere5220]

Oh! I want in on random Shakespeare quotes! "I dare do all that may become a man. Who dares more is none." Also. "Exitant Left."

[@twig8523]

"... for this man is wise enough to play the fool. And to do that well craves a kind of wit."

[@Obiwan1994Kenobi-iv4jf]

3:50 I just love the fact that he looks directly at Shatner when he says it for a second, seeing as, well I guess you already know. Shatner stopped him from being captain of Excelcior at the time of Wrath of Khan's shooting. 19:20 I thought that in the movie, he was General Worf.

[@jbwarner8626]

I'll bet George Takei was thrilled for Sulu to finally get the Excelsior in this movie. It meant that he and William Shatner never had to be in the same room on this shoot.

[@Tareltonlives]

Second favorite of the Trek films for me. Yeah, there's some plot holes, but there are in every movie. It's great social commentary that works for both its time AND ours-as long as there's wars and adversity, the film is still relevant even when the Soviet Union's collapsed (mind you, it's been restored to some extent, but that's neither here nor there)

[@OpenMawProductions]

3:51 Nerd moment. There is cut dialogue from Star Trek II that basically sets up Sulu was going to be commanding the Excelsior but Kirk pulled him over to help with the training mission. You can actually see the cut in the movie. When Sulu says "I'm delighted, any chance to go aboard the Enterprise -" it cuts. That's where the missing dialogue was going to go. Though, at the time in 1982, the Excelsior was definitely not supposed to be the next greatest thing like it was in Star Trek III.

[@theMillieBun]

ill admit I always love the opening if this episode because of the demoting yourself thing

[@terminator324343]

Very great review. Regarding Chang’s characterization, I think that the movie features characterization for him: it’s just that you’d have to be Uber familiar with Shakespeare to understand his quoting. It seems to me that, similar to Khan’s quoting of Moby Dick, Chang identifies himself with militaristic and powerful Shakespearean characters (Julius Caesar, Henry V), but also with oppressed villains (specifically Shylock from The Merchant of Venice). Remembering Cartwright’s comment on the Klingons, I wouldn’t be surprised as to why Chang quoted Shylock’s monologue. P.s. takes a lot of guts for a badass general to bolt his eyepatch to his skull

[@TheSefirosu200x]

God I love Star Trek VI.

[@Landibert]

I think this might have been the first Star Trek film I've ever seen and always remained the epitome of Star Trek for me ever since. Tho honestly I've never been into Star Trek that much.

[@pinoypizza]

Yeah I highly recommend everybody to check out the Klingon Academy FMVs on here. Plummer and David Warner are just absolutely wonderful in the roles as Chang and Gorkon respectively. As for Trek VI, yeah, this one is definitely my favorite overall Trek film because of the intrigue and how it can tie into real world events at the time. What's funny about Linkara's comments on TNG is that, even taking it chronologically, shifting from The Undiscovered Country to TNG Season 1...blegh.

[@Kujakuseki01]

I LOVE Klingon Academy and their performances. It’s such a great game!

[@AlecDraven]

I love that in this movie there's a Bird of Prey that can fire while cloaked..... but the Klingons never seem to develop that technology ever again. And you know that if he could, Captain Sisko would have added that to The Defiant. Seems like something he'd do.

[@Newtonip]

I think the Undiscovered Country is the best Star Trek movie by a large margin. There's the hook of a murder mister, the excellent ship battle scene at the end, the allegory to Chernobyl and the end of the cold war, intelligent humour, very high brow dialogue, good special effects and an awesome sound track. I can't even think of a non Star Trek movie that packs all this.

[@Merit2397]

Ah, Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country, my second favorite Star Trek movie RIGHT BEHIND The Wrath of Khan and for some it's their number one. If you hold that opinion, I completely understand. It captures so much of what the original series was all about, perhaps even more than Star Trek II, and was a perfect send off for the original crew as well as a decent set up for the Next Generation and all the other shows to follow. When I heard Krik give his final log entry my heart swelled up, I understood now why the franchise has survived to this very day because the next generation and all the ones after need Star Trek as well.

[@misterbubbles6389]

24:08-24:36 My favorite moment in the whole review

[@juon91]

Agreed. That joke is hilarious.

[@JaredsGaming]

I love the "You owe me 10 bucks" gag.

[@tfmaster96]

28:16 sterling archer: "cry havoc and let slip the hogs of war!" lana kane: *dogs,* archer. archer: or dogs- look, whatever farm animal of war, lana!

[@tfmaster96]

Thank you, Lewis. I appreciate the ❤️.

[@AT4W]

And I appreciate the Archer reference! =D

[@JosephEstril]

My favorite StarTrek Movie. much more of a mystery story than other Treks.

[@AlbertCalis]

13:48 - The Captain in this panel gives the Stardate as 8679.15, however in the movie, Captain Sulu gives the Stardate at the beginning of the film as 9521.6.

[@ShanaReviews]

I kind of always viewed Wrath of Khan, The Search for Spock, and The Undiscovered Country as a Trilogy with The Voyage home being a "filler" story and just ignoring The Final Frontier

[@cassiedevereaux-smith3890]

My interpretation of that scene in the movie was that Grandaddy Worf was there because under law, the accused would be provided council, but that he.... um. Wasn't really bringing his A game. That he wasn't there to *win*, but only to tick the boxes of Klingon jurisprudence, not in least because it was being broadcast to the Federation. I mean, one of his questions was, "if there was no gravity how could they have walked?" and the answer was, "um, magnetic boots, duh." He was going through the motions in my opinion, but he knew what the verdict would be and was probably just fine with it. They even noted that it was a show trial back on the Enterprise. It was not a serious legal proceeding, and Granddaddy Worf was just doing his bit in the song and dance.

[@Jillbles]

I'm old enough to remember Ollie North. And I, too, am an enormous nerd.

[@thomaspalazzolo5902]

That Kirk on the cover makes me think more of Dr. Emil Lizardo from Buckaroo Banzai than Captain Kirk.

[@Kujakuseki01]

Loved that you talked about Klingon Academy. I’ve played it through 4 times and it is just an exceptional game.

[@SBaby]

18:53 - Yeah, it sucks but that's the way it is. If a crew member is acting up, then it reflects negatively on the Captain of the ship. I don't think the Captain literally takes the punishment, but it does count against his record.

[@clansullivan6059]

The one joke of that 10 bucks Spock lent McCoy is a story in and of itself and I love it. I like running gags where the gag itself is an ongoing story.

[@shadowlinkbds]

You may be a nerd, but the fans and I love you for that.

[@RedDragonM1]

I was too young to understand the symbolic things going on in the movie....I know now, though. Also, I was 7 or 8 during the fall of the berlin wall. I didn't know why this was a big deal, but I felt it was important. Remember, I was 7. I was in kindergarden.

[@thornangel16]

30:42 I like that reference to The Question. Nice!

[@destendgem]

Can we get a Let's Play of Kilngon Academy? That sounds pretty awesome honestly.

[@deadaccount7520]

Resource depletion. Sounds like a good time to beam a couple hundred tribbles down. That dinner scene with the klingons. Always reminded me of the scene in Patton. Celebrating wirh the Soviet generals. "Tell the ambassador i do not care to drink with him or any other klingon son of a bitch"

[@joshuahartman3132]

As far as the door to Kirk's quarters goes, I seem to recal that in the movie, Kirk's door was held open by his luggage, and closed when Valeris moved into the room, carrying the luggage with her so it would close. Why he was giving his log when the door was wide open and his luggage was not yet put away is beyond me.

[@AmaranthOriginal]

+Joshua Hartman Kirk's kind of an idiot. I hear the combination to that luggage was 1-2-3-4-5

[@AmaranthOriginal]

Agent of Chaos I hear he has mad cow disease.

[@jrny20]

Funny, that's the same combination MY luggage has.

[@Heavenlyhounds96]

That teleportation joke is practically the same as what HISHE did with the "Rose Tyler, I-" Line from Doctor Who. XD

[@haileyshannon7548]

I just love the McCoy voice!

[@PokemonHaloFan]

The first Star Trek movie I ever saw and my introduction to Star Trek as a whole back in the mid 90's. Just such a great movie. Easily the second best of the original six Star Trek movies after Wrath of Kahn.

[@hitomisalazar4073]

You know... I kind of like moments like Valaris there talking about how Klingons aren't trustworthy while she was a spy who killed her fellow Star Fleet officers. Kind of reminds me of one of the first moments like that I ran into in fiction. In the Lord of the Rings trilogy where the orcs are talking about how Frodo got captured and is still alive in Shelob's Lair. "Must have been an elf, only elves would run away and leave their comrade behind like that. Vile treason and cowardice." "Isn't that what we did to (orc name I can't remember)?" "Yeah. Heh. That was funny." It's that little touch of humanity in a way. Just how many hoops, exceptions, and double standards people will put up out there. Always a good call when you see that to examine your own life and how many of those prejudices and exceptions you draw up.

[@yanceynitzsche5115]

Didn't skim for similar comment, so apologies if redundant - What was likely putting him off about the cover was the juxtaposition of realistic figures finely rendered in ink with the flat amberlith coloring technique used before computer coloring became a thing. A recolored version with realistic light/shadow modeling would make the line art sing.

[@romdan7136]

I don't know..... the Ghost of Star Trek Future could be a few things: On the Good side, you got Kirk from Star Trek Into Darkness, or Benjamin Sisko from DS9. On the awful side, you got Kathryn Janeway from Voyager, or Spock from Star Trek Beyond.

[@FNGLHR]

Kinda struggling with a concept that this comic and the movie delve into, the idea that aliens gravitate so quickly to human culture. They quote it, they absorb it, they make constant reference to it, they sing the songs, they mention films. Now, the problem is that these are aliens and they should be more attached to their own culture than others. At the same time, it makes it easier for a writer to put readily available and identifiable cultural references to better illustrate points they wish to make about the characters and the scene. Because if you try to make up pop culture or historical literature for them you run the risk of basically being too similar or outright copying other works and just putting on an alien coat. When do you guys feels its approrpriate for aliens to make overt references to human culture? When does a situation like a Klingon spouting Shakespeare become silly?

[@joshuahartman3132]

In fairness it could be described as a "fanboy mentality" across species- in other words, just as some Klingons like Chang get so into a bit of human culture that they claim they invemted it, so a human could get so into Klingon culture that they claim that HUMANS invented it (wouldn't that be awesomely meta?).

[@FNGLHR]

Joshua Hartman I'm mostly speaking in terms of actual world building and sci fi in general. After all, an alien should have their own culture, their own beliefs and values. In terms of realism then, when does it make sense for an alien to be influenced by Earth culture, particularly popular culture, and when does it feel like a lazy out to not have to make up your own bits of the alien's culture?

[@joshuahartman3132]

In terms of language at least the Klingon language was deliberately formed from a combination of Earth's most rare and dificult to speak languages, thus making it as alien as humanly possible. So in that at least they are culturally unique. However, as far as a cultural background goes, that is dleshed out more in novelizations and in series like TNG and DS9, where the Klingon culture and background plays more of a role than in the movies, where they were relegated to the role of Shakespearean villainy. For example, according to Worf, the Klingons killed all of their Gods, as they were more trouble than they were worth. Also, just as most cultures have historical heroes, like George Washington in the U. S. or even legendary heroes like Robin Hood, the Klingons have Kahless, who is an historical legend- the first Klingon Emperor who is attributed many impossible feats. The Klingons actually do have a fleshed out culture when done right, as do others like the Vulcans or the Romulans- we just don't know a lot about them, outside of the novels.

[@FNGLHR]

Joshua Hartman Fine, but again, I'm speaking in more broad terms, not just Star Trek or the Klingons themselves. I'm speaking of like Aliens gravitating towards human figures more so than their own. I'm talking about aliens liking hair metal or spanish sitcoms or Power Rangers. I'm thinking along the lines of having aliens like things from human culture and rarely referencing their own, suggesting human culture is superior or something. When does that get overboard?

[@joshuahartman3132]

+FNGLHR I'd say it's overboard when the aliens in question either become indistinguishable from humans or become completely subservient to human culture. That being said, even the latter can be used for good storytelling- just look at Galaxy Quest- the aliens seemed to have no culture of their own (although they must have, at some point before they saw human tv shows and movies) and they even built their ship to accomodate humanoid anatomy, instead of their own. Even when captured by an enemy they did not let their human facade fade except under extreme pain. These aliens were all the more entertaining, and went through even more character development as a result- their leader learned to fight for himself and essentially grew to the point where he no longer needed to follow a human so closely. On the other hand, in other sci-fi works, having the aliens be too human-like is a significant drawback, and can even lead to plot holes and/or Mary Sue type characters. I guess it all boils down to how good the writer is at worldbuilding and character building.

[@devlinburgess2463]

As a non-Star Trek fan, this is probably my favorite of the stories that have been covered, though it's not all roses. On one hand, it's smart enough to avoid the naivete that a lot of works in the aftermath of the USSR's fall had and is clear that there's still a lot of problems and intrigue to be gotten through (though in hindsight even this still looks like wishful thinking). On the other hand, this has probably the most obnoxious and superfluous amount of Shakespeare quoting out of any of the films, which is really saying something. The dependance on that sort of thing always struck me as a deeply self-conscious attempt to appear more "respectable" and dramatic.

[@TheStarTrekApologist]

I really explain the whole drinking over Sha-ka-ree thing now that you stated it. I almost wanted to wait to see if Cinema Sins would cover it, but they are taking forever.

[@FischerFilmStudio]

In the 2009 Star Trek the ice planet was Delta Vega, not Rura Pente

[@Aeon2Flux]

I've always wondered having seen all these when i was younger.Is the Federation President(played here by Clarence Boticker) the helmsman on the Sarahtoga in part 4? Or does every being of his race have white hair and Beards groomed exactly alike? Always thought it was weird how Cartwright was a villain in this one too.

[@keyblademasterclark]

I know it was just a gag, but do you have a head canon for why you demoted yourself from Admiral to Captain?

[@L1701]

There is a bit of cleverness in Valeris's name considering her role in the movie. Eris is the Greek goddess of chaos, strife, and discord. Valeris wanted to continue on the Klingon/Federation war. The meaning would've been only more obvious if there was a scene where Valeris was holding a yellow apple.

[@nemanjasladojev3446]

Man, getting caught up is taking a while.

[@et3inuyasha]

You know... I gotta wonder. What does it feel like getting hit by a phaser set to stun?

[@dreamlandnightmare]

Star Trek VI is my favorite of all the Star Trek movies.

[@tommydiaz-millan2438]

William Shantner was on Over The Hedge as Ozzie the possum. I don't know if u watched it Linkara.

[@Jokie155]

So, would the Ghosts of Past, Present and Future be Johnathan Archer, Christopher Pike, and Chris Pine?

[@magicguy1988]

I never understood the purpose or reason why the Star Trek uniforms have the "open-able panel" near the strip with rank insignia. Any Star Trek officiando care to explain why that exists?

[@matthewmcnerlin231]

this is the best trek

[@JOSH-lw2jv]

17:55 Too bad they didn't add a little "Ha-ha-ha!" when McCoy said his arthritis joke.

[@jrny20]

The USS Excelsior, my favorite ship.

[@damonr.1098]

I have the one with the different cover; a photo from the movie.

[@jamesatkinsonja]

My take on the 1st ten movies:VH, WOK, UC, FC. SFS, FF, G, N, I, TMP

[@tommydiaz-millan2438]

Now Bones is starting 2 sound like Rick.

[@donli197]

Kirk’s door always opens for the ladies

[@attackofthecopyrightbots]

thats all folks

[@cometrider3201]

I see you kirk! Peekaboo!

[@jakebryant3445]

Wait the mirror universe invaded?!? :O

[@brokenhaloking]

did anyone else think the federation president looked klingon in the movie?

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

Colonel ( Överste ) FREDRIK " Fritz " BORG

[@tuvyamaeir4684]

The shading lines everywhere are not as bad as John Romita Jr.'s in his modern work.

[@robbirk762]

always wanted to try Klingon Academy...was it good?

[@AT4W]

+Rob Birk The game tended to crash a lot when I played the demo years ago (yay technology), but what little I DID manage to play I quite enjoyed and the story itself is great on its own.

[@RichardWatt]

+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall And I bet it's difficult to get working on a modern PC too.

[@TheStarTrekApologist]

+Rob Birk I am playing Starfleet Academy on SNES for my channel.

[@fredrikcarlstedt393]

I rather like this movie comic book adaptation .

[@JeffreyPiatt]

Ironically during the production of this film v was written out of the timeline.

[@lorddrayvon1426]

Odd how this oneshot is labelled #1.

[@christopherb501]

There's been a few of those on this show. Always odd.

[@kathyford7837]

My one main critical comment of this movie is that Uhura SHOULD have been much better at Klingonese.

[@kadindarklord]

I'll admit I knew you were a nerd, but not that much of a nerd.

[@kadindarklord]

+kadindarklord Also, I read on Memory Alpha that it was for the exact reason that Saavik being a traitor would not have gone down well with the Fanbase, one of the writers knew this.

[@noahlarsen1720]

does anyone like stat trek 2009 , and star trek into darkness? I've heard STID made some fans mad

[@TheSefirosu200x]

I don't see why! I thought Into Darkness was amazing, and MUCH BETTER than 2009. Since it's number XII, I guess that means that the Odd Number Curse is still a thing (although I hear Beyond is pretty good).

[@jfdrac]

Buddy there isnt a movie or comic or any other piece of fandom made that WONT make some fans mad

[@SomeRandomJackAss]

Wait, Star Trek Expanded Universe? Did the new movies make that non-canon?

[@pinoypizza]

+BadAssMutha006 Well...actually, unlike Star Wars, Trek EU has NEVER been canon. Roddenberry put the kibosh on that early on.

[@joshuahartman3132]

There are loose connections with the more recent works (those taking place after the end of all the TV shows, for example) especially the Voyager, TNG and DS9 series. Most of the Trek EU revolves around the huge event that was the final Borg invasion in which several worlds (including Andoria) were utterly devastated by the Borg, whose origins were finally revealed and their accidental creators, beings not-quite-but-almost-Q, finally taking responsibility for their creating rhe Borg and absorbing them into a new collective, essentially removing the threat of the Borg permanently. In fact, there was a Department of Temporal Investigations novel that finally explained why Admiral/Captain Janeway wasn't immediately arrested for breaking the Temporal Prime Directive- if she hadn't taken the actions she did, the event never wouldve happened, the Borg invasion wouldve been dwlayed for centuries and their creators would never have gotten involved, thus resulting in the eventual assimilation of the entire universe. I ramble, but my point is that while the Trek EU is loose and non-canon...it's actually pretty good.

[@AT4W]

+Joshua Hartman Eh, I am iffy about the explanation of the Borg's origins. Tying them into humans like they did just seems too... fanficcy. Why couldn't they have simply evolved into that society on their own?

[@joshuahartman3132]

+Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall I do tend to agree that it was a bot fanficcy, but I can forgive it because it allowed DTI to retcon the Voyager finale into making sense.

[@jamesatkinsonja]

+Joshua Hartman I kind of like the idea in 'Star trek:the return' that the borg plant's sun died and the electronics was a means of survival, with the borg splitting into various branches. Better than them being created by V'ger anyway.

[@nathanthompson4613]

Is the Federation even technically a country? Or am I arguing semantics?

[@jfdrac]

Its not even close ...Its a Confederation of planets...It would much closer to a UN

[@marcelopicon1675]

McCoy is the worst doctor in ST history. This movie confirms that

[@juhaniaho6698]

9:10-9:14 Was this a line in the movie? Out of context, this makes no sense. (I haven’t seen Star Trek 6)

[@AT4W]

It was indeed. Spock is kind of joking here, but he's quite serious - look up the expression here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nixon_goes_to_China

[@juhaniaho6698]

Linkara-AtopTheFourthWall Now I understand. Thanks.

[@andrewmihovich4252]

Again! One more time! (For now!) "Hello and welcome to Atop the Fourth Wall, where bad comics burn... I'm a Captain again. Got a reprimand from myself and was forced to demote myself. It happens." It always sounded to me like Praxis *was* one of Kronos' moons. In the picture in the movie, at least, you can see that, like, *half* of it has been blown off by an explosion, while the other half is still there. Re: "Let them die!" Thing is, I've always heard that the movie cut out a brief, but telling moment where, even when he's so far along in what he feels for his son, killed by a Klingon, he reacts to what he just said a moment later and is clearly horrified by, well, what he just said, condemning an entire planet of Klingons to *die.* Picard's "Come!" routine from "Star Trek: The Next Generation" is one of those things that's kinda burned into my memory. ...seriously, of all the things to cut out, they made "Logic is the beginning of wisdom, Valeris, not the end" one of them? ...one more time. No promises. Klingon: You hypocritically presume that your democratic system gives you a moral prerogative to force other cultures to *conform* to your politics! Linkara: Ah! Before tumblr, that was the *sophisticated* way of yelling, “CHECK YOUR PRIVILEGE!”… except without some of the stupidity that the phrase has become associated with. Something I can't really back up about this movie: How does the chief medical officer of the Enterprise, *decades* after serving on the original five-year mission of the most famous crew in Starfleet, not know the anatomy of their Cold War enemy of seventy years? A rookie medical student might fumble something like that, but "Bones" McCoy? Really?

[@jfdrac]

If anyone came to the site where Comics were reviewed and expected anything less than full nerddom.....they dont desrve to be here lol

[@RThyrring]

taH pagh taHbe'

[@Duchess_Van_Hoof]

Just remembered the big difference between Star Trek and Star Wars, the former got social critique and is clever while the latter have some embarrasing parts due to George Lucas. With him wanting every race to be a singular concept like pirates, crime lords, cowardly merchants etc. The upper levels of Corrusant is filled with humans while the slums are filled with aliens, something that is left unmentioned in Clone Wars. Star Wars is often portrayed as a black and white good vs evil story which is a bit embarrasing when the good guys are religious fanatics that kidnaps and indoctrinates children and have a gigantic army of brainwashed child soldiers. There is a reason to why fans always keep asking for a grittier and a more morally conflicted portrayal of Star Wars. That said I still prefer Star Wars over Star Trek due to be a primarly fantasy reader and SW is pretty much fantasy in space. Star Trek on the other hand is proper science fiction and pretty darn good at what it does. Some day I will watch the whole show. Reason for posting this is that I watched Clone Wars yesterday and is reading Republic Commando while watching this.

[@DrewLSsix]

angelowl89 A: the children are not abducted, Anikin was sent away by his mother and its almost certain thats how most jedi come to the order. B: the jedi do not have a child army, the children were never sent out to fight. we do see an incident of a child fighting back in defense and thats it. you may consider padawan aged jedi to be children but thats debatable, not long ago it was common for us to consider 12-13 years old grown, if you are counting on our short lived concept of 18-26 year olds still being children in some ways dont bother. C: the sith DID kidnap the young for their purposes.

[@Tareltonlives]

Lucas is not responsible for that bit-the writers of the EU (such as the CLone Wars) are. The upper levels of Coruscant are filled with aliens-the senate, the Jedi council, etc. Star Wars is NOT black and white-that's the entire point of the prequels. The Jedi's way is portrayed as leading to their downfall, such as the said clone army. You want moral ambiguity and darkness? Watch the prequels-it's about good guys whose flaws are exploited by the main villain, and it ends in catastrophe. Hell, even the original trilogy there's Lando's arc, Han's arc, etc. Star Trek suffers from the same problems-in much of TNG, the Ferengi and Klingons and Romulans are often one-note with no depth. Picard and Kirk have had their moments of complete moral hypocrisy. You still have many episodes where humans are considered the apex of what a being can be, with other races being badly flawed compared to humans.

[@triblast3977]

It doesn't truly lose that until Deep Space 9, like Clone Wars and the Prequels it takes a war to show how dark the future/space can be sometimes. And plus blame Gene Roddenberry he was the one that viewed humans in the future as morally perfected beings that evolved past things like money, war, and blah blah blah.

[@CaptainEnglehorn]

i actually liked Star Trek Enterprise. certainly better than voyager

[@DrBachur]

Wait, "check your privilege" wasn't always a joke?

[@RichardWatt]

+El Critico Molesto No, for a Social Justice Warrior (or SJW), it's serious business.

[@SnowyDragoon]

Before people used it as a "I don't have a counter argument"

[@planescaped]

I've never seen or heard a real person say the phrase. If I saw someone say it in real life, I would be very embarrassed for them.

[@jfdrac]

@@planescaped CHECK YOUR PRIVELEGE

[@user-wx4sn6ve8y]

Why you keep poking fun of Enterprise, it wasnt that bad.

[@jakebryant3445]

Why did you demote yourself?

[@MegaBob452]

+Jake Bryant (JBryant) It's a reference to how Kirk was demoted back to captain at the end of STIV.

[@jakebryant3445]

Ahh ok

[@lizzymatheson6487]

Star Trek V never happened, Linkara. It never... happened.

[@IamConnorMacLeod]

The Motion Picture, The Final Frontier AND Insurrection are all still much better than Generations, though.

[@TheSefirosu200x]

What? Generations was pretty good. Definitely better than Insurrection!

[@IamConnorMacLeod]

Way, way worse.