Stuckey Strikes out on Mormons: A Response to Allie Beth Stuckey and Lynn Wilder

Stuckey Strikes out on Mormons: A Response to Allie Beth Stuckey and Lynn Wilder. Allie Beth Stuckey is a Christian commentator who works for the Blaze, a conservative media outlet. And she interviewed Lynn Wilder, a lady who converted to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints with her husband when she was in her 20’s, she eventually taught at Brigham Young University, and 30 years after she joined she left the Church and became an Evangelical. Ultimately Wilder admits to a surprising lack of knowledge surrounding the scriptures and doctrine while she was a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and a professor at BYU, and both her and Stuckey don’t seem to have a good grasp on the subjects they discuss in this interview. I hope that everyone who follows Christ finds the joy and peace that He promises, and I just wish that this interview was a little bit more focused on getting facts about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints correct, as well as inviting others to come and see the Savior of the World for themselves, regardless of the real or perceived denominational disagreements.
Introduction: 00:00
Allie’s Hypocrisy: 01:35
Lack of Scriptural Knowledge: 04:15
‘God Changing’: 09:59
‘God will keep His word together’: 14:11
Internal consistency of the Bible: 16:37
‘The Book of Mormon is 100% reliable’: 18:48
The ‘Illuminati’: 20:39
Differences in Salvation: 21:06
Wilder Doesn’t get it: 22:47
Conclusion: 24:14
If you enjoyed this video, I would recommend this response video on Johnny Harris: • On Incompatible World ...
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Sources:
The Allie Stuckey/Chosen Interview: • Is 'The Chosen' Biblic...
The Allie Stuckey/Wilder Interview: • Leaving Mormonism for ...
The Church on Salvation: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Family a Proclamation: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Church’s statement on Legislation: newsroom.churchofjesuschrist....
The Sermon on the Mount: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Revelation to Peter: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Deuteronomists: newviewoldtestament.com/the-d...
Moon to Blood: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Cwic Media on Dark Skin in the Book of Mormon: • Brown Nephites & White...
Nahom: www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/a...
Book of Mormon Title Page: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Last Chapter of the Book of Mormon: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
Matthew 16: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/s...
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[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

I spent awhile trying to get the tone right for this response video, so I hope the extra effort shows. And if you enjoyed this video, I would recommend this response video on Johnny Harris: kzbin.info/www/bejne/m6fMnnmnlqygbqc

[@bradycall1889]

I never understood why some people think Mormons aren’t Christians.

[@douglasarchibald9504]

I think a big point she misses from Galatians 1:8 is if the person or angel teaches a DIFFERENT gospel. People and angels teaching the SAME gospel is encouraged. So when Moroni shows up testifying that Jesus, the Son of God, suffered for our sins, died on a cross, was buried, rose the third day, and broke the bands of death and sin for all mankind THAT WAS ALLOWED! But when the angel Jibriel visited Muhammed and taught that Jesus Christ was a man and prophet, and not the divine son of God, that was a DIFFERENT gospel and the sort of thing the verse was warning about.

[@thesirevn334]

I think LDS have a different gospel. I think the NT teaches that faith is how one is declared righteous before God. In LDS theology, you’re justified on the basis of your faith and actions. But you also are saved for different reasons. Christians are redeemed because God loved them and chose them to be saved in Mormon theology you have different levels of heaven and basic universalism except if you’re an apostate you go to outer darkness. Christian thought maintains we’re all at risk of eternal punishment

[@thesirevn334]

You also have teachingsteachings like blood atonement for murderers. But Christian thought maintains Christ can only take sins

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

@@thesirevn334 I'm a firm believer that the Book of Mormon and teachings found within the restored Church of Jesus Christ, but reasonable minds can differ. To be clear though, we don't believe one's actions justify them before God. We believe that through Christ's Atonement all mankind may be saved, but Christ asks us to do things in order to accept His grace and atonement. Which, if I'm correct, other Christians think the same thing, they just have a different idea of what actions/prayers are needed. In this sense, we are closer to the Catholic view than the Protestant view. And we also believe we are all at risk of eternal damnation, we just believe that that damnation looks a lot more like being withheld from the presence, happiness and peace of God. It's not that God is actively trying to punish His children, but that they will only be as happy as they allow God into their lives. Finally, just because some have ascribed to the opinion of 'blood atonement' doesn't make it doctrine - just like how Calvin preaching determinism doesn't make all of Christianity deterministic. People, including prophets in the Church, are just people. If they feel like they have a view that is supported by scripture, they are free to make that case, but the theories of men come and go - the teachings of God persist despite the imperfections of those trying to follow said teachings.

[@BellDavidE]

@@OntheOtherHandVideos I know this is five months late, but I just read your comment that “we don't believe one's actions justify them before God” so I looked through my notes (I’ve been trying to understand LDS doctrine for the past four years) and found these quotes: “To be justified before God we must love one another: we must overcome evil; we must visit the fatherless and the widow in their affliction, and we must keep ourselves unspotted from the world” (Smith, _Teachings,_ 76, quoted in _Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, 50).

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

@@BellDavidE It's a great quote! And I would point you to one of the best sermons in the Book of Mormon on this subject - Mosiah 2:21-25 21 I say unto you that if ye should serve him who has created you from the beginning, and is preserving you from day to day, by lending you breath, that ye may live and move and do according to your own will, and even supporting you from one moment to another-I say, if ye should serve him with all your whole souls yet ye would be unprofitable servants. 22 And behold, all that he requires of you is to keep his commandments; and he has promised you that if ye would keep his commandments ye should prosper in the land; and he never doth vary from that which he hath said; therefore, if ye do keep his commandments he doth bless you and prosper you. 23 And now, in the first place, he hath created you, and granted unto you your lives, for which ye are indebted unto him. 24 And secondly, he doth require that ye should do as he hath commanded you; for which if ye do, he doth immediately bless you; and therefore he hath paid you. And ye are still indebted unto him, and are, and will be, forever and ever; therefore, of what have ye to boast? 25 And now I ask, can ye say aught of yourselves? I answer you, Nay. Ye cannot say that ye are even as much as the dust of the earth; yet ye were created of the dust of the earth; but behold, it belongeth to him who created you. If one is to understand any faith, singular quotes don't ever fully encapsulate what is taught, and frequently single quotes can be taken out of context to point one towards incorrect conclusions. We are not justified through actions ('by the law are no men justified'), but also if we have the light of Christ within us and we refuse to do what Christ has asked us to do in His name, we are under condemnation and worse off than if we had never known God. The whole idea of 'faith without works is dead' sort of deal. Does that make sense?

[@bobmcconnel936]

Nicely done!!

[@hammockcamping2500]

Great video! Good tone.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Thanks! It took several drafts to get the tone right - I didn't want to be mean or condescending, I wanted it to be a fair but clear critique.

[@clearstonewindows]

She's a crazy. It seems like she's willing to lie, or she's lost her mind.

[@bradycall1889]

It’s like, not believing that the Holy Ghost, Jesus Christ, and Heavenly Father are different people does not make you not a Christian.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Agreed - non-trinitarian beliefs are quite different from not being a Christian - but I think since Protestants don't have as distinct of sects and as rigid a theological structure, they are essentially just trying to say 'you are different' when they play the 'you aren't a Christian' card.

[@christabewley]

sadly you are mistaken. Mormonism is not christianity and the bible clearly states that Christians need to warn others so that they are not led astray by false religions/beliefs. Jesus clearly says in the bible that He is the only way to heaven, and that if you know Jesus you know God. The LDS is false and founded by a polygamist.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Good news, we also believe that Jesus "is the only way to heaven, and that if you know Jesus you know God"! And I'd be curious what your thoughts are on the Abrahamic Covenant and the Children of Israel, as both Abraham and Israel were also polygamists and foundational to the Old and New Testaments.

[@christabewley]

@@OntheOtherHandVideos what you want to argue about is irrelevant to the Gospel. We know the Old and New Testament to be true. We know there was no great apostacy and that the true message of the bible was never lost.(Joseph made that up so people would follow him) We know that Christ's work was completed on the cross (not in the garden of getsemane). We know God is Jesus is the Holy Spirit and that Jesus is not the devils brother and that man can not become God. These beliefs are what make Mormonism false.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

@@christabewley Haha, I wasn't about to argue anything - I was curious about your thoughts that seemed to support a contradictory justification for scorning another faith. But that point is apparently "irrelevant to the Gospel" (which makes me wonder why you brought it up in the first place XD )

[@jessicaniss1338]

Do you believe that Jesus was a man who became a god?

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

Christ was the God of the Old Testament who condescended to become mortal. So no, He was God before and after His mortal ministry.

[@jessicaniss1338]

@@OntheOtherHandVideos What about God the Father? Was He once a mortal human like as Joseph Smith said, “God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens!” And what about the belief that humans can become gods in the next life?

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

@@jessicaniss1338 Great questions! I feel like this first part goes back to the question of: 'What is unchangeable doctrine, and what is the opinions of a given mortal prophet? How do you tell the difference?' To quote Brigham Young: "In trying all matters of doctrine, to make a decision valid, it is necessary to obtain a unanimous voice, faith, and decision. In the capacity of a Quorum, the three First Presidents must be one in their voice-the Twelve Apostles must be unanimous in their voice, to obtain a righteous decision upon any matter that may come before them, as you may read in the Doctrine and Covenants. The Seventies may decide upon the same principle. Whenever you see these Quorums unanimous in their declaration, you may set it down as true. Let the Elders get together, being faithful and true; and when they agree upon any point, you may know that it is true. " To quote Elder Anderson: "There is an important principle that governs the doctrine of the Church. The doctrine is taught by all 15 members of the First Presidency and Quorum of the Twelve. It is not hidden in an obscure paragraph of one talk. True principles are taught frequently and by many. Our doctrine is not difficult to find." So back to the question at hand, I would put that quote firmly in the not necessarily doctrinal stance. Many within the Church feel like 'the infinite regression of Gods' makes sense to them, some feel more like the 'Eternal Monarch' idea fits better. But both are speculation because God hasn't revealed details on the subject. As for us becoming like God, yes! I would say that is pretty plainly taught in several places, and is justifiable given logic, the Bible, modern revelation, etc. As Romans 8:16-17 says: 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: 17 And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together. And as John 10:31-38 says: 31 Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him. 32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me? 33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. 34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? 35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; 36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God? 37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not. 38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. 1 John 3:1-3 says: 1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not. 2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. 3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. Basically, God has said we are His children. Kittens grow up to be cats like their parents, lambs grow up to be sheep like their parents, and children of God grow up to be like their Parents. And God has called us gods - Christ Himself affirms this to defend Himself against claims of blasphemy. And we are told that we are "joint-heirs with Christ". And heir is "A person who succeeds or is in line to succeed to a hereditary rank, title, or office." - and we are apparently joint-heirs with Christ. Christ is like His Father, Christ has been/will be given 'all the Father has', and Christ is rightfully given the title of "God". And we are told that we can be as pure as God is pure, that 'we shall be like Him'. So yes, we believe that we can be like our Heavenly Father - because through Christ and His Apostles, God has promised us as much. Does that make sense?

[@jessicaniss1338]

@@OntheOtherHandVideos Two things: First of all, where did this idea of 'the infinite regression of Gods' and the 'Eternal Monarch' come from because that's certainly not in the Bible (the one and only Word of God). Also, your interpretation of John 10 is incorrect and does nothing to prove that man can attain godhood. Jesus quoted Psalm 82:6 to defend his claim to be the Son of God on biblical and semantic grounds. Psalm 82:6 is about the idea that influential men and spiritual beings can be referred to as gods, therefore, the Messiah can rightly apply the term to Himself. That passage in no way indicates that human beings are or can become gods - we cannot. There is only one God - Father, Spirit, Son, three persons in one.

[@OntheOtherHandVideos]

@@jessicaniss1338 Well 'the infinite regression of Gods' is a logical extension of the idea that if children of God indeed can become like their Parents and "join them in the family business", then it is reasonable to ask if our Heavenly Parents themselves have Heavenly Parents. It's an intriguing line of thought. Honestly the 'Eternal Monarch' is far more in line with how most Christians would think of God, so I'm glad you believe that a theological idea you don't know anything about apparently doesn't appear in the Bible. XD You are correct, John 10 and by extension Psalm 82 doesn't inherently prove the doctrine of divine potential. However, according to your own admission, Psalm 82 says that some men can be accurately called 'gods'. Christ takes this one step further and says that God called those "unto whom the word of God came" 'gods'. So according to your own words and the words of Christ, at least certain men are already 'gods'. So yes, that single scripture doesn't 'prove' anything (I noticed you didn't address the other two scriptures), but all together these are 3 'witnesses' that at least allow for the possibility that we are literally Spirit Children of God, with the capability to become like Him. So, if I may, could you apply the same standards to your own theological statements? Would you mind providing a scriptural source that says more definitively than what I showed that says "we cannot" become like God? I mean, that 1 John scripture does literally say "we shall be like him", but I'm all ears for a clear cut contradictory scripture. Similarly, would you mind providing a scripture that states that the "Father, Spirit, Son" are "three persons in one"? At least, I'm assuming you are saying "one" as in the Trinitarian sense of "one being". There are many scriptures that say They are One, but what does that mean? One person, one being, one in purpose, or something else entirely? When God said that husband and wife should be "one flesh", He didn't literally mean they become the same person/being - but it does seem to have similar vibes to 'one in purpose'. Similarly, when Christ talking about His Apostles said, "That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us" (John 17), that seems to directly state that the Apostles can 'be one' with both the Father and the Son in the same way that They are "One". So to be 'one God' in this sense would be to be one in purpose - to be of one heart and one mind. Hence there can be 3 Members of the Godhead, and they can "be one God" just as a husband and wife can be two distinct individuals yet still be "one flesh", and 12 Apostles can 'be one' with each other and Christ and the Father. And none of this points toward the Trinity - in fact it all points directly away from that idea. And if you can't find the Trinity of "one being" clearly in the Bible, it would seem you are relying on the words of men, not the word of God. And that you don't hold a consistent standard for how to establish truth. I look forward to hearing your thoughts!