Dragon Ball GT: What The Hell Happened?

[@WakeUpUniverse66]

Its Vegeta's mustache wasn't it?

[@davidhong1934]

*_~Moustache_*

[@Bowiiihowdy]

MOUSATCHE MOUSATCHE

[@stevemajors3152]

Moustache, Mou-mou-mou-mou-moustache, Moustache, Moustache

[@awesome19ssbb]

i fucking love have this thread quote TFS

[@sammydray5919]

Dunno why the moustache is hated so much 🙄🙄🙄

[@peliparado94]

Joke's on you, I experienced the whole dragon ball saga through the story mode of Budokai Tenkaichi 3

[@jeanettacoyne6390]

@daddy indeed

[@cheesefellow3851]

Carlos Espinosa I experienced it through the second games story mode

[@gurpreetsingh-rv6uy]

Best dragon ball game, finished it many times.

[@bingpot3141]

Jokes on you DB started with Dragon Ball and not Z so you didn't experience all of Dragon Ball lol(no hate intended)

[@cheesefellow3851]

Man Dude jokes on you, it took me years to learn the og dragon ball’s story through the internet and lore tidbits from the 2nd bt game 😎

[@OizenX]

While SS4 doesn't have any buildup to it, I do enjoy the fact its related to Sayain lore and the entire giant ape aspect of the race. Something that basically seems forgotten in Super.

[@jonnylyden]

The Man who sold Za Warudo super completely forgot about it coz Toyotaro sucks at his execution and Toriyama has Alzheimer’s. I’d rather watch a GT episode over a dbs arc any day

[@vukasa]

@@jonnylyden Agreed

[@hexkwondo]

@@jonnylyden me too

[@valordelink]

Until broly movie where Spoilers Broly powers come from him using the power of ozaru in human form

[@esertpunk3460]

Dope user name

[@CaptainJacksIsland]

Power levels are cool, but I always preferred the adventure aspect. The original Dragon Ball can't be beat imo. The original Tenkaich Budokai saga with just Goku and Kuririn delivering milk on mountains as part of their training still takes me to a new world. No one had to destroy a planet either. Just watching them move a boulder was awesome.

[@tomdrawsstuffs6092]

i think the smaller growth like the boulders creates a more intimate feel

[@Metalton95]

Which is why I love the Namek saga above all other Dragon Ball - it had the perfect mix of adventure, fighting and involvement of multiple characters. Plus, before we finally saw Nail vs Freeza, Freeza was scary as shit - some untouchable final boss beyond all the other strongs fighters our heroes had to flee and hide from before.

[@zermanman9891]

Yes og db will never be beat

[@papps2937]

Bros criticizing gt for it being more like db then z💀

[@Subpar1O1]

I've started liking the casual stuff in Dragon Ball more than the fights honestly. Some fights like Vegito vs Buu, Goku vs Hit and Gohan vs Cell are really good, but I've always enjoyed the stuff like Vegeta and Goku growing to be genuinely good friends, Goku and Piccolo driving cars together, and Vegeta being a good father and husband a LOT more than the whole "universal, multiveral and omniversal level feats" bullshit that modern Dragon Ball does. Don't get me wrong, Super: Broly is my favourite Dragonball related show, but I still really liked the scenes with Beerus and Bra

[@kaifraz]

to be fair, we didn't really get any "emotional build up" for ss3 either. it was kinda just dropped out of nowhere from Goku against Fat Buu

[@matcomicnerd7631]

Yeah you right... because most of the things people don't like about dbgt is it wasn't the same thing as dbz.

[@chrisossu2070]

To be fair, that was more of a distraction than a major character evolution. Also, the Buu arc was pretty polarizing in general.

[@notproductiveproductions3504]

kaifraz4048 to be fair, it was being hinted at a couple times during the Majin Vegeta situation

[@WeskAlber]

I dropped off after Z so I can't speak for GT, but the whole arc with Vegeta I feel was the emotional arc bringing us to 3. He was working on developing 3 but then Vegeta did a Vegeta

[@valiantparagonvideos2383]

I think you can argue that Wolf overstates his case in that situation, because of course like 3 both Goku and Vegeta's level 2 (and Gohan, Goten, and Trunks level 1s) don't have any build up either, nor does Gohan's power released form during Buu. While you can chalk these up as one of the reasons why the Buu arc is the weakest in the series, I think it's fairer to say that the initial Super Saiyan reveal, Vegeta's Super Saiyan attaiment, and Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 were just these culminating moments for those characters, not that transformations are universally this situation. Also to be fair the 3 transformation, it did serve a narrative purpose, just a different one. It's not a build up, it's a reveal of what Goku could have done and chose not to and reveals certain things about his character growth and his relationship with Vegeta.

[@BD-mt4th]

“The villains of Dragon Ball would just feel like walking power levels” Perfect description of Jiren

[@tngaming50]

Bruh that's "sayin" alot since what made Jiren a walking power level was... Trust issues but that just parallel to GT & Super

[@karrot4339]

Bravo & Delta Jiren isn’t even a villain. Also, they’re going to use him again when Super comes back, and they already planted his seeds for one of the most deep and heart-wrenching backstories in Dragon Ball history. But he’s still just a walking power level. For now...

[@BD-mt4th]

CYAN “deep and heart wrenching stories” you mean him losing stuff so he wants to be strong? That’s not really deep that’s just a basic story for characters who have an uprising.

[@joxyver]

Bravo & Delta If there is something that I hated (and still hate to this day) more than my hate for GT, it’s Jiren. That walking disgrace of a character in any form of media or animation made me absolutely sick to my stomach and I hope I never see him again. He was an utter joke to everything that is and forever will be Dragonball and he will never claim the title of character, he will only be a walking sack of useless shit that will only be known as “The blank slate”. He doesn’t even deserve the name Jiren, it’s funny but even Kid buu has more character than Jiren. The background characters had more character than Jiren. Hell, think of the worst character in anime or the most hated character in any other anime, they have more character than this narrative mistake that is Jiren!

[@InstiGator805]

@@joxyver oh shit.

[@mikevilla1694]

"Space Racist", I never heard such an accurate description of Freiza

[@yvanlacoste6648]

"Well, maybe so... but I can't quite be a racist against a race that doesn't exist."

[@penmastery5243]

He spacist

[@MtGamin]

@@yvanlacoste6648 dbz abridged?

[@yvanlacoste6648]

@@MtGamin yep

[@nanjobissness4360]

Best one is "Space Napolian Hittler"

[@omariwalker1006]

The Concepts of GT were actually amazing, if you think about it. The execution however... well, at least the ending was on point.

[@AnzuBrief]

are you talking about DBGT or about the SW sequels? Sorry, I couldnt help it. I love your comment. I agree 100%

[@VaporeonEnjoyer1]

Dan Dan Kokoro and the ending are the only things I like about GT.

[@jantheking7028]

@@VaporeonEnjoyer1 You know a show is bad when the only thing likable about it is the ending lol

[@AnzuBrief]

@@KoolKeithProductions eh? why 2005? the Disney sequels came up in the 2010s

[@KoolKeithProductions]

@@AnzuBrief Whoops. I thought u said SW "prequels" 👀 I had a long day yesterday and was dead tired when I posted that. My bad, Becca 😅

[@PunkExMachina]

I remember one thing I hated as a kid was that GT turned Goten into...Yamcha 2.

[@Senumunu]

ow boy. you are going to LOVE dragon ball super.

[@ThexDynastxQueen]

Amazing Spiderman Fan 2002: You do know he couldn't look like Goku forever and by the end of Z he had a shorter version of Yamcha's long hair which continues the weird tradition as Gohan also had Yamcha's hairstyles. Eh I like GT Goten, the boy is focused on getting digits as what is he supposed to do? Matter? He's a minor! /reference

[@BaconNCereal]

The Dynast Queen the fans didn’t want anyone replacing goku they were planning on making gohan surpass goku and take over in his death but people didn’t like that idea so they just made his sons pussys

[@patricksikhrangkur8814]

@@Senumunu Does Goten even exist in Super? I really don't remember.

[@ThexDynastxQueen]

Amazing: Eh he doesn't to me, he looks distinct which was a missing trait. I get why his design is this way as Goku being dead there need to be no ambiguity he was Goku's kid but too many think he's just like him due to it when he isn't. Taylor: No, check Kanzenshuu's Intended Endings Guide for the Buu arc. The real answer is much simpler. /neeeerd

[@MrDrProfessor4]

I'd take GT over Evolution any day.

[@brandonsmith2172]

MrDrProfessor4 *Anything* is better than evolution...

[@Whitehawk-]

Brandon Smith even Boku no Pico?

[@brandonsmith2172]

Alemm You have a point there lol.

[@jayceallen6530]

No one likes evolution I only know it exists because of cosmonaut variety hour

[@mr.m2659]

Yes, even boku no pico. No homo

[@tonyvongola10]

Goku GT: an adult in the body of a kid Goku super: a kid in the body of an adult

[@VicMeep]

Holy shit

[@LoganWileyZmonsterH77]

Goku( super) : A kid in the body of an adult. Yep definitely sounds like goku to me

[@davidhong1934]

How much did Goku mature anyways?

[@LoganWileyZmonsterH77]

@@davidhong1934 I don't think he matured much. There are times when he serious like in frieza saga. But he still acts like the same kid in good old dragon ball tho.

[@oszeek]

Goku in DB: a kid in a kids body Goku in DBZ: a kid in a mans body Goku in DBGT: a kid in a kids body Goku in Super: a kid in a mans body he was always meant to be a kid at heart, Super didn’t change that

[@GaspardGourgaud]

As a Mexican guy I experienced Dragon Ball from the first episodes all the way to GT and the dub is just Beautiful, absolutely incredible, one of the good things to come out of Televisa was broadcasting this series for so long, when Goku defeated vegeta for the first time, when he turned super sayian, when perfect cell was defeated by SSJ2 Gohan, it was all you'd hear about at school, even just going for some Tacos if it was dragon ball time, and they had a TV set, you were going to watch it there for sure, such a massive hit around here, still beloved to this day and probably forever.

[@daveeol1987]

Same in ireland. I think its like that all over the world

[@oxivixo]

He called Freeza a "space racist" 😂😂 accurate

[@copeseethemald8510]

spaicist.

[@bulletpoint728]

Tyrannist

[@VixXstazosJOB]

He was XD

[@VixXstazosJOB]

@@copeseethemald8510 no, literal Racist but in a galaxy scale though

[@galaxydragon8755]

Theottis Levon Beelzabuster Guss-Smith "you can't be racist to a race that doesn't exist" -Tfs Freeza

[@FantasticMario]

I think the ending of GT where adult Goku flies up in the sky with nimbus and saying "till we meet again guys" ohhhh that was so good. That was an awesome send off.

[@michaelsolorio1751]

I thought it was so depressing, I cried lol for like 2 days

[@srt8up4shot]

The ending song is amazing such an amazing ending and series

[@johnedelmann6711]

The first 17 minutes: bash GT constantly The last 2 minutes: "You might like it."

[@subwaysurfer5378]

Those are possibilities. Gt only has minor good things of it

[@Aeonitsu]

thanks man you just saved me 15 minutes of my life

[@Natoursofcourse]

@@Aeonitsu watch the whole video dude. Theres a lot of important stuff he says and its kinda rudebto brush off something so personal.

[@OMEGAg935]

LMAOOOOOOOOO

[@Triskelion345]

@@Natoursofcourse the whole video is just rant 😅🤣🤣😂😂

[@AnzuBrief]

There were two emotional moments in the fight against Baby. First, Gokuh didnt become SS4 after having his tail pull out. He became a SS Ozaru out of control. He lost his mind. It was Pan's tears and Pan's picture of their family and friends that returned Goku's consciousness and give him the push he needed to turn SS4. That was an emotional moment. Second, after Goku defeated Baby and Trunks and Goten turned back to normal, they believed that Goku needed to kill Vegeta to get rid of Baby for good. Trunks accepted but you could see his pain, Goten hugged him, and Goku considered his course of actions silently for a few seconds. Then he shot Baby/Vegeta, but it was only to destroy his tail after which Vegeta's body returned to his original and Baby had to leave it. This moment was brief but it was also quite emotional. It's been more than 10 years since I watched GT, but those two moments stand up in my memory.

[@elmechanico185]

indeed!

[@gork4035]

I loved the baby arc, probably one of the best arcs in that show.

[@poptart2323]

Yes, after an ass pull. “It wasn’t from his tail being pulled out” he wouldn’t have transformed had he not had a tail? So quite literally yes he had to get his tail pulled out for it to be possible

[@AnzuBrief]

@@poptart2323 it had to happen, yet, but that turn him into a ozaru, not a super saiyan 4

[@poptart2323]

@@AnzuBrief but it literally makes no sense. As the blutz waves turn vegeta’s body who has no tail into one as well. Also why is that baby who had control didn’t become super Saiyan 4? It makes no sense. They were both golden ozaru’s and yet goku is the only one that’s super Saiyan 4? Also why is that cutting baby’s tail makes him turn back into super baby 2? He didn’t even need a tail to transform… the continuity is just thrown out the window

[@DragonballBlack]

At least GT showed blood and battle damage. Unlike Super. Just Saiyan.

[@superexclusive452]

BlackScape because that actually matters

[@g3neralcross911]

BlackScape because of how a show is determined to be a kids show nowadays

[@blackrose8418]

Blood isn't necessary to make a good show

[@HyenaBlak]

Lil TAY #YungestFlexaUfDaCentery in dragon ball it does same with people getting killed as well

[@knightstudio9985]

true that dragon ball gt had balls show blood unlike super

[@ethanahearn9642]

3 best parts of GT, 1, the ending 2, Vegeta claiming that he was the earths protector 3, SSJ4

[@gabrielherman3004]

How?

[@miguelpadilla4101]

I agree with all 3 plus the shadow dragons cause i liked the fact that the dragon balls had a consequence of being used.

[@sanguine7616]

This is strictly my opinion, but I fucking hate how SSJ4 looks. I don’t care about anything else about it, it might even be a great concept, but to my personal sense of aesthetics, it just looks so unbelievable stupid that I just totally fail to understand why people like how it looks. I get that it’s a matter of preference, it’s subjective, but goddamn do I hate that shit.

[@youhaveayds8975]

@@sanguine7616 its supposed to be the compressed/controlled energy of the golden great ape so it would definitely be better idk golden??

[@mazoku6793]

Also, Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku

[@giantrujillo2049]

"I have never hated an anime more than I hated Dragon Ball GT." You clearly haven't watched boruto.

[@justinkroboth360]

He has seen Berserk 2016, though, so it really is saying something.

[@thechugg4372]

Boruto as a concept that exists is the most infuriating thing ever.

[@matthewhall1467]

Hey ya know that character we’ve followed through 15 years of hardship where we see him achieve his ultimate goals? Yeah we got a show about his shit kid.

[@devyvalentinoify]

He clearly didn't watch Super! Goku Black Saga was like WTF

[@marmato9332]

Ok I haven't seen neither Naruto nor Boruto, but I didn't know people didn't like that one

[@Tlenodawca]

When I was a kid, I didn't give a single f*ck about GT being bad. I freaking enjoyed and loved it as EVERY Dragon Ball episode.

[@matheu5mato517]

Same.

[@MrPimpJuiice]

Yup, me to

[@PDXDario]

The first arch made me want to tear out my eyeballs and throw them at the tv to turn it off quickly and painfully it was the most boring and uninspired thing created to date in the context of anime

[@ShadowOfMassDestruction]

Same as me man

[@nullworks5329]

Agreed

[@ItsNerfOrNathan]

GT, while being respectfully awful, has some of the best concepts and designs in Dragon Ball history.

[@dudecool7915]

Like SS4, and.........

[@ALocalClown]

@@dudecool7915 Space hunt for the Dragon Balls, mind controlling villain which turns the heroes into villains (a nice way to get around the 'heroes are too strong' problem), shadow dragons (consequences for using the d-balls too much), the ending of the series (goku going with shenlong), as well as tons of fun slice of life and one-off villains in between. GT's execution was hot trash, but the actual concepts in the show were brimming with potential.

[@TheTitansFather]

Mullets, lots of mullets

[@DistortedV12]

Better designs than super imho

[@AZCaveMan480]

You can polish a turd, but it's still a piece of shit.

[@trentnguyen394]

“Struggle all their life to achieve [ssj]...” Goten and Trunk: what?

[@homestuck_official]

I mean everyone agrees Buu saga kinda sucked lmao

[@ech0222]

Trunks*

[@CarlJohnson-iv7sn]

@@homestuck_official ya it sucked but some of the moments in buu saga were just great like when those two shooters killed an old couple and buu's dog it felt kinda sad to see that how people really want to do bad things and all they want is just an opportunity to do so. Also I read somewhere dbz was supposed to end after cell saga as Gohan was supposed to be the protagonist of dbz but toriyama was forced to do more as dbz was doing great.

[@K-Stac]

@@CarlJohnson-iv7sn no part of Buu saga sucked

[@DaDonroy101]

@Ish no the biggest lie ever told was told by my dad and the lie was that I would turn into a fish if I Stayed in the bath for too long

[@saiken811]

GT might not be loved by everyone. But to me, I love it and that ending will always be THE ending of DB for me. That ending legit made me tear up.

[@poptart2323]

Nothing made me tear up more than seeing vegeta both artistically and writing wise get ruined. Or how they just disregarded basic world concepts to sell toys

[@marcoparada6652]

Gaayyy

[@tabulldog2743]

Dragon Ball GT is the living definition of "Great concepts, poor execution." I'm not gonna say that all of it was terrible, because there were a lot of awesome things about it (Super Saiyan 4 is bad-ass) but there were a lot of bad things that kept it from being great, like Goku getting turned into a kid, the rest of the Z-Fighters becoming even more irrelevant, and the next generation kids getting completely ignored.

[@martyshrekster]

The kids thing continues to be a letdown in Super. Not to mention they actually make Goten and Trunks WANT to fight, but they end up getting sidelined in every single arc. Also Trunks is the same age that Future Trunks was when he first went Super Saiyan now, but still looks 8.

[@Chimpbot]

Honestly, most of these complaints can be said about Super, as well. The series doubled down on focusing everything on Goku and Vegeta for most of it's run (something the Super manga is still continuing to do), and most of the series is spent focusing on the rather dull Super Saiyan Blue/SSGSS. GT had plenty of great ideas, but the execution wasn't always the best. You could say the same about Super, too.

[@Icanonlycountto4]

The dragonballs becoming bad guys with power levels based on the number of stars was genius imo

[@williamcronshaw5262]

@@Chimpbot If it weren't for the Goku Black saga, I would actually call Super worse than GT. And even that is almost totally ruined by the ending.

[@j.r09160]

Your opening sentence hits hard bruh. GT had so much damn potential its frustrating

[@lifeloverNorris]

Goku didn't turn SSJ4 because his tail got pulled out. That was only the catalyst. He turned after he sees Pan crying in his hand. I think SSJ4 transformation is brilliant, as it pay massive homage to ape as the purest form of a Super Saiyan, and I also think Baby as a villain is underrated. He has actual legit motivation of what he's doing, not just evil or want to conquer the planet, but revenge against what Saiyans actually did, and he effectively took control of Earth and essentially achieved his goal in reviving his planet and its inhabitants. GT has many issues, but I still like it.

[@Igyzone]

I wish the transformation part was true, but we all saw how Vegeta got his SS4 form. It's like when someone struggles af to gain some worth and then another person literaly using cheat codes.

[@evanrussell9946]

The SS4 transformation should've been the God form.

[@mariohurtado4275]

@@evanrussell9946 totally, do you remember when the movie was a couple months away and a gold ssj 4 was leaked as the god form??? Man, i was so excited and then we got... ehm...yeah.

[@RichHomieGon]

Igyzone ok but that's how Dragonball is in general. Goten and trunks didn't go through hell to transform but they still got it. Hell they even got ssj 3 just by doing a dance. And as for Vegeta, though he did go through hell to unlock ssj. Originally it was stated you needed to be pure of heart meaning nimbus cloud-level good saiyan which made sense that Goku was the only one bc saiyans are assholes. But since Vegeta obviously has to become a ssj one way or another, they pulled some pure-evil bullshit which defeats the purpose of being a pure saiyan. This is how dragonball is in general and nostalgia is the only reason we praise dbz for it while hating on gt. Fans wanna see as many super saiyan transformations as possible even fan-arting weaklings like Nappa and Raditz. The writers are just giving us what we want which means they gotta break their own rules sometimes

[@RichHomieGon]

lifeloverNorris thank you for this comment cause I was bout to say the same thing. This is a good video but the bias is clear. He reached deep to find significant meaning in dbz while intentionally highlighting the shallowest parts of gt. How could you not see beauty in Goku struggling against literally everyone he loves who have turned on him while he has to fight his rival then transforming into the ape that kilt his grandfather while holding his granddaughter who shows him a pic of his family all together and helps him gain control of the form to compress the power into a unique ssj4 form. If he tried he could've even found meaning in 17 and omega shenron. No mention of how 18 and 17 battled it out and the weight 17 turning evil held. And you don't even have to try to dive deep for omega. Literally the entire series consists of people using the balls for their own selfish reasons starting with Bulma wanting a damn bf. Now they're having to face consequences in the form of an all-powerful being. And they learn to be more responsible with the balls. Gt has its obvious flaws and could've been handled MUCH better but this was not an objective analysis in anyway. I haven't watched the show in 5-6years and I easily just found significance off the top of my head and could make even stronger points if I actually went back through it. No excuse for him to not put more effort into showing both sides

[@vagrxncy499]

"The long awaited sequel to dragon ball z...." Dbz ended in January, GT started in February...that's not THAT long

[@Jonkler01]

He was in the hyberbolic time chamber

[@Jose-se9pu]

Literally a week after

[@sunxnes]

That's because this guy was born in 96. He was a fetus when this show came out.

[@Bellyofthebeast6]

Originally, yes, but for the English dub there were two years between Z and GT. In the early 2000's most kids were watching their anime on TV, not subbed online. If he watched it as a kid he'd remember that two year gap.

[@noodlz.mp4819]

manga wise it was a decently long wait

[@mlisso979]

I absolutely loved it. From the Dan-Dan opening to seeing my favourite character, Gogeta. I was young and the internet wasn't there to slap me in the face and point out all the flaws. Doesn't matter though, this show is forever etched in my kokoro.

[@leafyfeathers]

I’m going to be real with you. I actually cried when Piccolo died.

[@zanthonyhill8818]

Again?

[@Disbelief_]

Same

[@fedupN]

Piccolo is best Dad.

[@mariobadia4553]

I hated the fact that Piccolo wanted to stay in hell for some goddamn reason.......

[@samuraipunk2639]

same here

[@DarkHeroCC]

Regardless of what GT was, the ending of the series always felt perfect to me and I can’t for te life of me not cry watching it.

[@hyperrunner8531]

Despite most of the last arc being only half decent, the last 3 episodes of GT were actually the strongest 3 episodes I've ever watched in the franchise, it will always be THE perfect ending to the entire dragonball franchise.

[@SheltonPiresPires165]

Gt's ending is the best hands down

[@yashchamria]

that ending always gets me

[@seanblack1320]

Im upset that with super officially making gt noncanon, that it means that ending also is noncanon.

[@SheltonPiresPires165]

@@seanblack1320 not necessarily you know that different timelines exist in the db lore so GT can still be canon but a different continuity

[@りみとれす]

GT got sooooo many backlashes in Japan to the point that there was a rumor that GT stood for" Gomennasai Toriyama-san" meaning "I'm sorry Mr.Toriyama"

[@etam8099]

what?!

[@burnttoast.2017]

Weird that ssj4 seems to be more popular than blue there then

[@Abandonsoyciety]

@@burnttoast.2017 because ssj4 isn't just resigned super sayain and actual effort was put in character design.

[@burnttoast.2017]

@@Abandonsoyciety at least the aura is unique, though.

[@jantheking7028]

@@Abandonsoyciety SSJ4 popularity has nothing to do with design. UI and MUI are more popular than SSJ4 in Japan (and I think in the US as well) yet UI design is simple. There is more to form than just a design, and SSJ2 and UI shows that. Trash forms like those fanmade SSj5 forms can have a unique cool looking design, but that alone doesn't make them good forms.

[@BonesNeverLie]

I completely forgot about all the kid stuff. I just remember the baby arc and I loved it

[@DBZMacky]

Dragon Ball GT really wasn't that bad. It's just a meme. Dragon Ball Evolution on the other hand...

[@El_Andru]

I think Dragon Ball GT is worse than Evolution, because it's dissapointing. Evolutions is bad/awful yeah fuck it. Most of us dont even take into consideration, just as like the CDI Zelda games. But GT looks good, it was following DBZ, but was the first major dissapointment after a great series. Its just bland, but it doesnt look like (the style/design is amazing). This man said it himself "I wanted this to be good" Its dissapointing.

[@thebatman6423]

@@El_Andru i think super is more worse than gt

[@MrConredsX]

Super is much worse than GT

[@johnhurley8918]

*Super

[@majinbuddha5392]

@@thebatman6423 you must be some dumb kid

[@Iamwolf134]

It honestly feels more like GT is deserving of a retelling, if you will.

[@idioticeskimoe5149]

Agreed. It could make the Baby arc more streamlined, Improve the Super 17 arc, and perfect the Omega Shenron arc so that it could actually be less divisive.

[@jueezzzz]

@@idioticeskimoe5149 and make a better design for that trash heap Super 17

[@jantheking7028]

@@idioticeskimoe5149 Nope, destroy the Super 17 arc and the Omega Shenron, those were inherently trash and cannot be fixed, but they DEFINITELY need to adapt the Baby arc into DBS or into a movie or something. So much potential in that arc.

[@iamhungey12345]

The shadow dragons arc is a good idea since there has to be a consequence for having to overuse the dragon balls because some people couldn't stay alive for more than 5 minutes.

[@Iamwolf134]

I myself am thinking of having 17 go up against super 17, or some other scenario.

[@smoshcool12]

Lets be real though SSJ4 is way cooler than Super Saiyan Blue

[@sammay6893]

No

[@David-jw7ib]

Ok fine SSJ4 is better BUT GT is still trash.

[@kellz1703]

David Marriott it’s bad but super is just as bad

[@VixXstazosJOB]

@@li-limandragon9287 SSB makes sense when irl the color Blue is related to divinty though

[@thotslayergoku9914]

I Prefer SSJ Fornite Streamer to SSJ Furry

[@Tanglw]

I love the maturity presented at the end of this video. I had the exact opposite experience with Dragon Ball growing up as a child. GT was on television when I had the same age Goku was turned back into. DBZ was on television too, but that was a "boring grown up show" I couldn't get into. GT was for me, it was beautiful, it was fun, it was amazing. The ending of GT was very possibly the first really deep emotional experience I had with television. That last episode made me go to school sobbing for Goku. I thought I could like the original DB after that, so I went after it in manga and, yup, loved it. The origin of it all, more of Kid Goku... I didn't ever rewatch DBZ after that but... maybe it's time for that now? Anyway, in short: It's not about the series itself. It's about us, our journey, and how well it fits in there. Amazing video Super Eyepatch Wolf. Thank you.

[@1mol831]

I don’t enjoy these shows because they’re a bit too looong

[@InvntdXNEWROMAN]

Was GT bad? Of course. Did it have some pretty cool moments? Hell yeah.

[@MajinErick]

I don't think it was bad. I think there was a lot of forward thinking going on; SSJ4, The Black Star Dragon Balls that no one ever knew but Pilaf, etc. The Nameless Namekian (Fused Kame and Picollo) made those balls...and what's interesting...in the current timeline, he mentions nothing about them for a good reason. The fact that Uub exists confirms GT.

[@adolfdrippler243]

Kyle Gruber yeah it wasn’t bad. People just hate it because it wasn’t “canon”

[@tabulldog2743]

completely agree

[@itsyaboixeno1h605]

I liked gt alot

[@jnutztheskullking]

Kyle Gruber no. Not at all.

[@PrinceMallow]

I will say this much about GT, "Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku" is probably my favorite opening in the DB series.

[@ty90xx]

Tomokocchi Hold my haaaaaaaaaaaaannnddd!

[@hypercumstone44]

Tomokocchi a good Soundtrack won‘t make the show good either

[@shecklesmack9563]

Don’t forget “Don’t You See”, one of the ending themes. I can’t hear it with being hit directly in the feels.

[@joxyver]

Tomokocchi You mean that one song that someone used to make a Dragonball tribute AMV that featured a lot of scenes from Dragonball, Dragonball Z, Dragonball super, and Dragonball GT and made it look like that Dragonball was forever over and made me cry like a bitch and appreciate how much of a great series it is despite GT? Yeah that song is great.

[@SherMoLang]

I really love GT for what it was a "Dragon Ball" tribute. The ending where krilin and goku fight on the beach is one of the most "comes full circle" ending I've ever watch. To these days I still considers GT as one of the most satisfying ending ever.

[@dinogt8477]

Ye it rlly was a great ending

[@kairosian4241]

Bad ending, Vegeta is an old man and everyone is super weak. Didn't feel like there was even a legacy. 'goku/vegeta jr' thing is so laughably a fanfic ass concept. Uub was slept on the whole time. It was definitely narrative bound to its time, holds weaker than Boruto.

[@SherMoLang]

@@kairosian4241 well all of us will eventually gets old so I don't see a problem with that lol. That Goku/Vegeta jr is where I agree with you but seeing Goku merging with Shenron is fine because at the end of the day the main story of Dragon Ball is about a young boy finding the seven dragon balls.

[@jantheking7028]

As someone who vastly prefers DBS to DBGT, even I can admit that it will be almost IMPOSSIBLE for DBS to have a better ending than DBGT unless they just completely copy and paste the DBGT ending.

[@ProGamer-hg3mb]

@@jantheking7028 Technically the DBS ending is the peaceful world saga of DBZ

[@dhruvhari7189]

From what I can see, from this video and from my own experience watching it, is that it makes a explanation for the unreleased ending. Cause while super has more escalation, how much escalation can you get? You reach the top of the pyramid, rivals lose meaning. His ending was amazing. The way we see Pan as an old woman accidentally seeing goku, leaving it to us as to whether it was him? Hell, vegeta had a beautiful scene accepting his place as the better father and accepting goku for being the best. The ending that was unreleased had a heartbreaking bit and some deep stuff, which the video explains wouldn't have worked for its child friendly audience. Goku being immortal was ... surprising though. Vegeta having a mustache... eh.

[@airdren4592]

Gt’s ending though 11/10

[@taskforcekillah9722]

TechnoGamer better than super's for sure

[@sumthintuf3648]

TechnoGamer hell yea

[@bangers4039]

TaskForceKillah no no no no no

[@lessthanpinochet]

@@taskforcekillah9722 Absolutely.

[@gangstagummybear3432]

It's not because it ended the ability for anyone to add to the story any further, look at the ages of the characters at the end of gt; the time skip killed very young characters and partial aliens, that's stupid; they could have redeemed gohan, goten, and trunks with a new expansion portion of dragon ball led by them. Terrible ending

[@schmedia2537]

Well it's pretty obvious GT was trying to be more like Dragonball, not Dragonball Z

[@godhimself5260]

You clearly didn’t watch Dragonball or GT if you think GT is trying to be like Dragonball

[@AzureKite]

@@godhimself5260 they literally de-aged Goku so they could have him be a kid just like in DB lol

strvtos facts!

[@williamcronshaw5262]

@@godhimself5260 The first arc was clearly trying to be more like Dragon Ball than Dragon Ball Z, but fan backlash was extreme so they then went back to a more Z style show once Baby showed up.

[@ADHadh]

I loved original Dragon Ball and I saw the similarities immediately. And I liked GT. After Buu saga the DBZ fatigue was real. The cast going into a space adventure and actually looking for the Dragon Balls was refreshing after yet another "evil thing with multiple forms and Goku goes through another SSJ transformation".

[@TheAwesomeDarkNinja]

I think Super Saiyan 4 is one of the best designed Dragon Ball transformations.

[@rolan5948]

It’s a perfect transformation imo. FAAAAR better than any of the garbage Toriyama shitted out of his ass in super

[@RyogaEchizen]

@@rolan5948colored morons....like power rangers lol

[@hiramsiqueiros9018]

i think ssj4 is the pinnacle of sayan transformations, it irradiates brute strenght and the imposing power the sayans are so proud of.

[@Odinsday]

It's one of the greatest Dragon Ball designs period. It combined the dramatic power of the Saiyan race with a calm and peaceful mind. The design is striking, yet kind of beautiful. Better than SSJB.

[@lingo8190]

I wish the design for super saiyan blue was super saiyan 4's tbh

[@graydanger]

As a kid the OP put me in such a mood that It sincerely made me incapable of hating anything that came afterwards.

[@nicholaswhorley8343]

I think the thing about GT that stung the most was the complete and final nullification of Gohan as a central character. Basically, Goku was more popular so let's just change him back to a younger form and do it all over again. It sucks even though I don't like Gohan's basic character traits Gohan could have been something more than a whining powerhouse of a brat if they would have continued on with him beyond Cell and Buu. But, Goku stayed in the limelight and Gohan was basically brushed aside to remain as useless as the other Z fighters.

[@etam8099]

Lol Gohan stopped being usefull since the Buu saga so...

[@hummenic13]

Just wait till you discover super

[@rezarfar]

To be fair, that had happened by Buu Saga anyway. By the end of Buu, it was quite clear that only Goku and Vegeta mattered and everyone else was just fodder until one of those two shows up.

[@nicholaswhorley8343]

@@rezarfar Kind of. Gohan initially was defeating Buu, without even a hint of trouble, until he got cocky and was absorbed. So until that moment his new mystic form was actually a front runner and more powerful than SSJ3 for any other fighters. His power still increased later and was able to contend not only with SSJ Blue Goku *until Kaioken multupliter was used* but also was one of the only warriors able to even touch beerus initially. So, I honestly think that the complete dismissal was in GT rather than Z but it's up for debate it seems. I would have liked to have seen Gohan's attitude progress to something more like that of a mix between Goku and Vegetas. Rage and power of vegeta behind a calm and happy exterior of Goku. But instead they gimped him with self-doubt and lack of confidence even after he grew older and stronger. Sucks.

[@rezarfar]

@@nicholaswhorley8343 yeah but after "Super Saiyanman" any progress he go was always going to be superficial and not amount to anything in the end. Which happened to his Mystic Gohan form. At the time i thought that too but you have to realise that Toriyama would have decided what the ending would look like by the time Mystic Gohan showed up, which would mean he really never had any intention of making Gohan amount to anything other that fodder. Mystic Gohan was one of the reasons why the overall story stalled and was ultimately a reason why Buu was the least liked saga in all of DBZ.

[@Ormagoden39]

I've said it before, I've said a million times, and I'll say it again. Dragon Ball GT. Great concepts. Terrible execution.

[@josephkuforiji9407]

Yup

[@aredjayc2858]

Agreed

[@briangarcia1975]

Exactly

[@oszeek]

I’d say GT had good concepts with mediocre execution. It wasn’t fantastic, but it was enjoyable.

[@saiyan_og9678]

Ormagoden39 Agree 100%

[@dandyman5284]

The video: GT was bad and here are my thoughts on why it was The comments: but super tho

[@ThomasReesbeck]

What about Dragon Ball Absalon (Fan made) that takes the GT story line to an even better place? kzbin.info

[@ItsSomeDeadGuy]

Except he literally says that he likes it now at the end of the video... so...?

[@dandyman5284]

Thomas Reesbeck i mean i’ll check it out, dont really have an opinion on it (yet)

[@dandyman5284]

ItsSomeDeadGuy so? My comment still stands. Look at the comments its a bunch of guys going “but super is worse” like that somehow makes GT better. Just because the video ends with his opinion changed doesn’t change the comments. Super is not what is being discussed yet it is brought up like it somehow changes everything. The discussion should be on GT and its achievements and faults.

[@pizzahighfive2612]

Because GT was the worst, until Super showed up... now DbSuper is what we shit on. GT you not that bad now..

[@andreajacobs4806]

I gave it ago a few years ago and it didn't felt like a different anime. The only thing I like the most about it is it made the great ape great again, the openings and the nostalgia.

[@sebbysebbseb]

I liked dragon ball GT :( (second half more so) I thought the ss4 transformations were awesome The Saiyans got their tails back! I like the idea of Sayians getting stronger because of their tails. Its in their blood, its what they ARE. The tail makes them transform. It was a call back to the original Dragon ball and early DBZ about the giant apes. I prefer SS4 and their tails compared to Super Saiyan God and Blue. I actually think God and Blue is silly. They just change their hair colour and their eyes. Its not impressive. SS3 made Goku more ape like, more primal. SS4 makes them even further into a primal beast. IT MAKE SENSE.

[@lamborghini320]

I completely agree with you. The only thing that I didnt like in GT, they made Gogeta behave like Vegito. Plays around with a opponent who can wipe the Earth in an instant. And defuse.. but transformations? SS4? Real Power right there.

[@PrinceVegeta.6]

💯💯💯

[@enei4608]

The thing i hate about ssj4 is that its just a black haired and different costume and human oozaru or just different costume and hair of ssj3 i really hated it it didnt give me the feelingbof watching db

[@enei4608]

@@PrinceVegeta.6 I dislike it because its just like 100 powerup or 10k powerup to Goku its almost useless if your fighting someone with 20k power than you but you just get half and you still lose and then ppl will think your form is useless

[@PrinceVegeta.6]

Kaito Playz reasonable

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

"...Walking power levels." Man, it's a good thing they never made THAT mistake again! _[Laughs to hide the pain]_

[@ZERARCHIVE2023]

GT just try to remind us that Dragon Ball is an ADVENTURE.

[@santinafryer5779]

Your right

[@raidenthekat2444]

I also felt that vibe from it. You can see they wanted to take Goku back to his child form, probably to make it easier for quirky adventures.

[@NeutralGuyDoubleZero]

They tried but didnt deliver on that. Most of the charm just wasnt there and it wouldve needed a lead instead of goku for it to work as a fresh take.

[@calebb7012]

This video was terrible. His bias really shows and that he has 0 familiarity with the original Dragon Ball.

[@thepants1450]

@@calebb7012 i like how he also skipped over the buu arc to justify his point lmao

[@mafiousbj]

It's the same problem I had with the Pokémon anime, no progression and weird restarts. First few seasons were interconnected and felt like a journey of growth. But when Ash started ditching his team every new region, they might as well changed the protagonist to match those of the games, so at least we get a believable arc. I know that anime exists just to sell merchadise but they could still make so much more with it

[@Kingnorm04]

The Pokémon Adventures manga does exactly this. It has a new protagonist every arc based on the player character from that game and even old protagonists returns as recurring or side characters in other arcs. They also have arcs based on the remakes that bring old protags back into the spotlight which I thought was really cool.

[@plushytv5295]

Then the Pokémon anime just became *CRINGE*

[@genesisera8364]

It’s funny you mentioned the Pokémon anime, actually. XY was the closest thing to what you might have been looking for - giving Ash character development, making him both a mentor and a character that just *felt* exactly like you grew up with him and he grew accordingly. Annnd then Sun & Moon happened and everything SEW described in GT happened almost note for note in SM - a character redesign for Ash that made him look younger, the unescapable writing on the wall that the show was now aimed at younger people than you, increased episodic pacing set around a school instead of the older serialised adventuring, and wouldn’t you know it, Aya Matsui of GT fame/infamy was one of the showrunners for SM 👀 Coincidence? Perhaps. But probably not.

[@mafiousbj]

@@genesisera8364 I know he finally kisses his travelling partner in XY but honestly didn't watch it (and that they had a childhood connection so it's a believable romance). Was it the series where he gets cheated in the Pokemon League by a guy with a Latios and Darkrai?

[@genesisera8364]

@@mafiousbj No, that was two regions earlier in DP.

[@avadoksorem2854]

You seem to be forgetting that the regrowth of Goku’s tail was not for him to reach SS4. It was so his ki levels could stay stable in Super Saiyan 3. The unexpected ascension in Super Saiyan 4 was something no one saw coming.

[@mohamedhussam1199]

In DBZ Gohan increased his strength by literally staring go an old alien while he keep reading pervy manga lol

[@ekki1993]

@@mohamedhussam1199 Most of the problems pointed out in GT can be seen in the Buu arc (subpar villain motivation, no buildup powerups for mystic gohan and ssj3 goku, etc.), but that's also the reason most people think it's the worst arc in DBZ. GT amplified those problems so it's only natural DBZ fans liked it even less.

[@SapphireMan08]

Doesnt make it any less dumb?

[@etam8099]

@@ekki1993 what was Cell's motivation tho? And Frieza with the generic "i wanna conquer the universe" bullcrap?

[@ekki1993]

@@etam8099 All of the villain's motivations are very badly developed from DBZ onwards (hence I said subpar, not just "bad"). It's not a high bar but some of GT's villains (and Buu) manage to be subpar even with the low bar.

[@SoulsOfWisdom]

Super Eyepatch Wolf: "In Dragon Ball Z, a transformation marked a big significant moment in the lives of these characters!" Goku: "You can call this a Super Saiyan 2, and this... is to go even further beyond!!! AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHH"

[@gamefreak4529]

true

[@frrascon]

LOL. True. Also, Toriyama made a lot of decisions on the fly. Like Cell was not supposed to be the main villain of the Android saga. Also, the Buu saga was a drag by the end.

[@TopBurger239]

yeah talk about rose tinted glasses.

[@photonalchemist6574]

Ssj3 is the only one that's not the case.

[@wellingtonribeiro847]

The video looks like he intetionaly forgot about Buu saga. SSJ3 had no buildup just like he criticise SSJ4, but at least SSJ4 had an amazing first transformation scene. And Buu suffers from no motivation just like Super 17 and Omega Shenrong. For me Buu saga would be totally trash without Majin Vegeta .

[@szymps]

I disagree with one thing. Baby turned all Goku's friends against him, Goku is part of a race that destroyed Baby's creators. There is a personal conflict betwean those characters

[@sammykent5752]

THANK YOU!!!! I don't get how he can literally explain all of Baby's motivations and his actions and in the EXACT SAME BREATH still say his fight with Goku had no emotional or narrative weight behind it. Am I missing something?

[@archieelebo2204]

Im guessing you two are kids who have never been in a fight that had meaning. Whether is to overcome a bully or beat that person who you lost to before. When this happened, he had a motive but not a personal thing, his feeling were not his but programmed into him. Thats what personal conflict means, not just two reasons to fight but 2 reasons worth fighting for, reasons you can get behind on either side or hope with your hearth that he can pull through.

[@archieelebo2204]

Let me show you with an example too, at the begining of dragon ball, the epic fight between goku. And vegeta lost, his pride was destroyed he spend the next season training becoming more and more stronger and when babidi came he has a chance to beat him and took it no matter the risk, and in this he beats goku and relises at what cost, and relises its not worth it all to turn evil, and gives his life to save the man he just beat, to save him self, and save his pride. What im trying to say is that is must develop the character in some way what development id you see in that fight, none no heart no soul, just a fight.

[@archieelebo2204]

😭😭Aww now you got me emotional😭😭 I blame you..for this😭😭

[@samoidxx]

@@archieelebo2204 🤨🤨🤨 What a load of rubbish. So I guess his family and friends who are all under Baby's control aren't worth fighting for? Don't give me that nonsense.

[@AkuTenshiiZero]

The thing that bothers me about SSJ4 is that it is ostensibly "taming the beast within," and yet we never actually see Goku go through any kind of story arc to lead up to this. We see him briefly lose control and then contain that animalistic strength into a human form, but it's the payoff to a character arc that doesn't exist. We should have seen Goku struggle with the fear of becoming a monster, scared that he might kill someone again like he did his grandfather. We should have seen him have to come to terms with the beast within and learn how to master it. It's unfortunate that Vegeta was possessed at the time, because as someone who knew how to control the Oozaru form he could have taught Goku more about it, have Goku learn more about his heritage.

[@j.i.k2.044]

SSJ4 is the most overrated form in the franchise

[@zurielsss]

SS3 has no buildup either, it’s just appear against fat Buu

[@MrTom23]

It's funny you didnt mentioned anything on buu as a villain

[@TheMike0088]

True, though I feel like, eventhough buu might be the weakest narrative villain in Z, he also has an interesting narrative position: what would happen if the z-fighters encountered a villain that was the personification of chaos, starting off as chaotic evil under the reigns of babidi, then going to chaotic neutral when babidi is gone, even going to chaotic good when he befriends hercule, only to go back to chaotic evil with super buu and the following forms, with kid buu finally deleting all traces of personality and leaving him as just utter, pure chaos incarnate, without any diluting factors.

[@Pekaman66]

I was just thinking about that

[@dezodroya]

exactly buu is a force of nature more than anything, i think he is just as great

[@paradoxacres1063]

Both Fat Buu & Skinny Buu are villains that force our overpowered Heroes to *think* for once in their lives. And in the end...it was *Humanity* that helped them instead of brute strength *:)*

[@spinceiling7442]

Buu is the best villain in Dragon Ball and you can't change my mind

[@SAGE0FTHEEAST]

When it takes you ten years to realize that gt isn't cannon and isn't the creation of toriyama but was crated by toei lol

[@gigipetaq]

But much better than akira creation they call super

[@Octurnal]

hamzah 27 super is way better than gt 😂😂

[@danielmedjedovic7068]

@@Octurnal Super isnt better than GT. Super does make great movies but as series its very bad.

[@Octurnal]

Daniel Medjedovic gt is worse 😂 like 90% of gt was trash, only thing people like about GT are, ss4 and omega, the shadow dragon arc was so fucking bad 😂, the black star arc was a joke, super 17 was ok

[@danielmedjedovic7068]

@@Octurnal black star arc was meh, it was a silly adventure. Baby saga was amazing, shadow dragons arc was amazing by concept but was okay at most. Super has no good arc. Goku black arc was okay but it was a mess, they had no idea how it would end. Super only better with fighting but story wise GT is better.

[@pious83]

How Dragonball should have played out: Goku dies in Cell Saga. After an entire series of build up, Gohan defeats Cell and becomes the central protagonist. Goku gets a final epilogue in the Otherworld Tournament Arc. Goku does not return and the series builds on the rest of the cast instead. Continuing the central themes of growth and development through struggle. *The Buu Saga* - Mystic Gohan, after heavily editing the arc, defeats Kid Buu. Dragonball Z ends with Gohan as an adult living upto the legacy of Goku. *Dragonball GT: **_Goten's_** Tale.* With the passing of time, the series revolves around significant character development for Goten & Trunks, alongside a young Pan. *Dragonball: Super* Gohan now being the one humbled by encountering Beerus. Vegeta, the returning hero to defeat the revived Frieza and Goku returns via Otherworld being entered into the Tournament of Power.

[@davidhong1934]

Also, other characters get an opportunity to do things and not stand in the sidelines commentating or acting as distractions.

[@jamainegardner4193]

neatidea.

[@slifer875]

1 i preffer that goku dies against frezzer instead, have trunks take goku's place in the android/cell arc and train gohan (his own teacher in the future) for the three years, give that cell saga sacrifise to trunks instead, saying something to gohan like: "the future is never set on stone, its up to you now" 2 i actually really like goku coming back for 1 day in the buu saga since its a tribute to what grandpa gohan did for him, however he should JUST be a cameo that says hello to gohan and leave... 3 the human character shoud NOT be ignore, if you want have the original plan for the buu arc, have picoloo go majin instead to have a student vs teacher. 4 im not sure gohan even deserves to be the protagonist since he only trained 5 years in his entire life, so have him train the whole 7 years time skip to be more of a martial artist guy... 5 i don't think we need GT and the whole mystic thing was a major aspull, perhaps the biggest asspull in the franchise, so instead of that i would preffer if he learned ultra instinc (NOT the white haired version) 6 if your gonna give gohan a rival make it hit, i don't have good reason other than he was the best part of super....

[@AdequateProximityPH]

I actually really like that, Gohan Blanco baby

[@W01fTamer]

"FUCK SUPER SAIYANS, FUCK POWER LEVELS, AND FUCK YOU! KIKOHO!" - Tien to Cell, TFS Dragonball Z Abridged. Lowkey one of my favorite moments. This guy who's been irrelevant to the series' fights for over 150 episodes just says that he's done with this shit and brings Cell, who is significantly stronger than any current Super Saiyan, down to his knees and dozens of feet into the ground, simply because he was beyond pissed at being just a bystander.

[@thewitness257]

Yeah, the ending made me feel genuinely depressed, that's not what dragonball is supposed to be like

[@whiskerswow1529]

I remember being sad asf. When I learned it wasn’t canon a few years later was the best feeling ever.

[@andresbahamonde1518]

Dragon Ball GT: Great Ideas, Bad execution.

[@manidavis4126]

And amazing opening.

[@themilkman5004]

Super Saiyan 4 great idea Shadow Dragons great idea

[@ThatAnimeSnob]

so... same as Super?

[@andresbahamonde1518]

@@ThatAnimeSnob Super: Same ideas, Bad execution

[@charlestonho6733]

@@ThatAnimeSnob Super are WAy better than GT you bad taste GTwanker. Even Super movie are 10000% better!

[@Nestle245]

The last episode of GT made viewers love, admire, and respect the Dragon Ball franchise as a whole from day 1. It was perfect how Goku last visited all his friends then became one with the Dragon before he left Earth. His job was finally done, and I loved how they tied events from Dragon Ball and Z in the credits then showing him reappear in the stands of the tournament to watch his descendant and Vegeta's fight one another repeating Goku and Vegeta's rivalry. It was a great ending to our favorite franchise.

[@Stuwie-uu3oe]

Mohammad Sharifi Much like super...

[@bennybyers1409]

singular on1 while I appreciated and chuckled at your joke, i have to disagree and say that Super is a lot more in depth than that. God forms really don’t end up being as over centralizing as you might think. Also even by the end of Super, Goku isn’t anywhere near the strongest character in the show

[@Stuwie-uu3oe]

Ben Byers Arguably goku isn’t in gt either as it took the spirit bomb to beat omega which realistically isn’t goku beating him on his own

[@rikosp5664]

His friends didn't do jack shit in super too? did you watch the tournament of power and the goku black arc?

[@kos4793]

@singular on1 goku in super a God! Wtf? AHAHAHAHA Zeus, Odin, Thor, etc.. Etc.. They are god, Goku in super is just a joke who get ass kicked by everyone, and no, there's no gods in dbs, it's just a title.

[@fungusfungi5900]

I hope there's a sequel to this video that's titled "Dragon Ball Super: What The Hell Happened?"

[@damnthatsrough970]

Dance Pad yes that's what we need

[@thisisnoplaceforahorse872]

Hopefully cause it has more faults

[@XProSuper]

super is the worst ever

[@tchitchouan]

Toei animation happened

[@germanleal]

I really, REALLY don't understand how people that hated GT now seem to love Super when it's a lot worse. GT at least have some interesting ideas like the quest around the universe or the dark dragon balls, Super is just a the same tired things of Z all over again

[@OtakuUnitedStudio]

Two things to keep in mind, everyone: Taste is subjective, and what one person hates another may love. This doesn't make either of you wrong, or delusional, or imply that one of you is fair while the other isn't. It's a difference of opinion, and nothing else. Don't let someone else's dislike of something you enjoy make you feel like you are being invalidated, and don't try to invalidate others for disagreeing with you. In short: don't take it personally. No one is "right" or "wrong." Just because you love something doesn't mean you can't look at it through a critical lens and identify its flaws, and just because you are critical of something doesn't mean it can't be enjoyed. In fact, being able to identify what is good and bad about something can actually make it MORE enjoyable, and fine tuning it to be even better is way easier when you know what should change and what should stay the same.

[@belakitu8331]

Your opinion on Dragonball ending when Dragonball was over ultimately due to Toriyama’s burnout feels supremely relevant with the ending of DBZA

[@alverdeo965]

Assuming the cell saga was good before abridged fixed it.

[@Jose-se9pu]

Except TFS knew when to stop...with Cell. Toriyama dragged things with the Boo saga, which was bad, and every Dragon Ball fan, deep down, knows it.

[@IzzyZil20]

@@Jose-se9pu I enjoyed the arc, there I said it

[@jantheking7028]

@@Jose-se9pu I thought Buu arc was better than Cell. Cell also felt dragged out, how can you not see it? First, Vegeta let him transform nonsensically. Then, Goku gave him a senzu bean for no reason. And then Gohan didn't want to finish him off. And then even AFTER Goku sacrificed himself to beat Cell, he just came back. The Cell arc is probably the most dragged out arc in the franchise, which is why I am always confused when people praise the cell arc yet on the Buu and Moro arc for being dragged out. The plot points in the Buu arc felt much more natural than in the Cell arc, Buu's progression was caused by his cunning rather than the characters making conscious decisions to help the antagonists.

[@theinimitablejora522]

@@jantheking7028 Okay, Buu was wonderful (barring Gohan)... until Goku went back to Otherworld. From there, literally nothing happened of note or substance until Kid Buu appears (at which point we get the best climax ending in all of Z, but I digress). Seriously, here’s a better alternative I can come up with in five seconds: after Goku goes back, Gotenks succeeds in weakening Buu, which causes Buu to absorb Gotenks. The weird dynamic of absorbing a fusion forces everyone to be dispelled from Buu, causing Kid Buu to appear, so it’s up to Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan to fight him in the Land of the Kai’s. It allows Ultimate Gohan to do something (his energy and proximity allows the Spirit Bomb to get strong by enough, perhaps?), and it CUTS DOWN EVERYTHING UNECESSARY. I’m not blaming Toriyama, he was tired and drained, but I am saying it could have been WAAAAAAY better.

[@oreganodog]

Damn. I must be the 1% of people that actually loved and still love GT.

[@tribblethesamurai4961]

I love gt

[@Blackmanyt04]

Lots of people still do(including me)

[@unholy7324]

I liked it. I still rewatch it

[@spoodsk2]

Joining your minority my OriSatan

[@rikkiscott9405]

I love that show and idk why people hate this show and if he hates this he shouldn't bother with super

[@marlom7882]

*new super eyepatch wolf video* Me: yay! “Dragonball gt: What the hell happened?” Me: ouch…

[@Grozdor]

Lol same

[@dinogt8477]

His dragon ball videos are always so good

[@benjamindeh873]

How is there no personal narrative in the battle against Bebi? X) What are you talking about. Bebi is taking revenge for his people, something that comes from the Saiyans destroying his people. He is using the body of the proud Vegetta, and goku cannot kill Bebi out of fear of killing his friend vegetta as well. Bebi is also using other people goku loves to harm him Your argument is 100000% right for the other fights prior to Bebi. General ruldo, Dr Myu, Durotaki, And the alienhead weird looking dude which goku says "he is more powerful than cell" only for a 2 minute battle X). All those were boring dumb underdeveloped villains. And the first half or so of GT is fairly trash because of that and other things. But Bebi is NOT that. Also SSJ3 has no build up either, its hinted at that Goku can only do it because he was dead and his non alive body has allowed him to reach such powers without obliterating his living body. Also, yeah the tail stuff...Shall I remind you how Goku Defeated Frieza?....By GETTING ANGRY. He didnt defeat frieza thanks to his years of training, but because he was the magic chosen one the wizard did it when he gets angry. And yeah, the scene with krilling blowing up is way better than the tail. But the logical reasoning for his power up are equally dumb and ridiculous in both cases. Also if you want to criticize cheap power ups, goku has them all the time in every series ever, here's a list of just SOME of them: - Ultra holy water - I go to hospital/eat a senzu bean, now I am x2 power because of saiyan near death thing - I get angry, I Get more powerful (Gohan, goku, etc) - Bull!!!!sh 1 day magical training in the magical other dimension room. - Give me your powers everyone - Kaioken - Fusion - Potara Fusion - Namek patriarch powering up gohan and krillin - Piccolo fusing with piccolo 2.0 (Neil) - Piccolo fusing with Kami (I can kinda forgive this one, as it was a LOOONG fricking time coming, and had been built up a lot - Dumb weirdo purple god guy dancing around Gohan for 12 hours to make mystic gohan Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaall of the above plus lots more are bull!shh nonsensical deus ex machina powerups. Not too different from pulling out Goku's tail. Some are certainly better filmed and portrayed, but equally random and nonsensicall all the same. As for 17 and Omega shenron arcs, they were GREAT ideas, which were ruined by real life issues. By then, GT in Japan had lost a lot of viewership (Very justifiedly so if you ask me, particularly for everything prior to bebi) so they slashed GT's budget. Where as GT was planned to be 120+ episodes, it ended up being slashed to about half that, forcing the writers to neuter the awesome idea of the evil dragons saga, from dozens of episodes, to a few. Apparently there were plans and concept art for SSJ4 gohan and trunks. In the end I am glad you realized what GT is. Yeah its not the perfect sequel we wanted from Z. Yeah it started horribly dumb, and yeah it has a lot more flaws than other sagas. But it still shines most brightly in some parts. "Dragon ball" ending in a saga specifically centered about the dragonballs and their use is just PERFECT. The concept of the evil dragons is AMAZING, if horribly rushed. 4 stars is SO COOL. And the end...that beautiful end, how can anyone be mad at that send off, with goku going away to be the guardian of the dragonballs, and giving us long time fans a last goodbye to all the amazing universe of dragonball. Its certainly better than anything super has given.

[@angelsfoodcake9631]

I like that Frieza and Cell got mentioned and Buu got passed over during the "not just a walking powerlevel" part

[@shayner17]

Well to be fair, Buu only turned into that after the split between Good and Bad Buu. Before then, Buu actually had a lot of interesting character moments between him and Mr. Satan

[@angelsfoodcake9631]

Arguable I think. The real "Buu" was Kid Buu, and he was a walking, screaming, gorilla posing power level. What you're describing is the most diluted version of Buu, where we're seeing that fat Kai's traits come through

[@paracetamolgirl7820]

It's probably time to admit that DBZ just wasn't ever that great, honestly. It had its decent and even exceptional moments, but let's be frank: every criticism here can be equally applied to Z. the Dragon Ball series was at its best narratively when it was an offbeat Journey to the West martial arts redux. The increasingly bizarre and frankly stupid curveballs starting with and following the appearance of Raditz have only gotten worse since then.

[@Mariobroszx]

Paracetamol Girl naw DBZ has issues, but if we put it into context of its release it’s easy to forgive it (we forget the series is from the 80s). It set a lot of the foundations thematically and still is a solid fun watch.

[@paracetamolgirl7820]

@@Mariobroszx I agree -- but it still wasn't that great. First episode was 89 or something, and the last was 96. GT rolled around basically immediately after that, and I can't say that GT was significantly worse than its predecessor. If we give allowances for Z being a product of its time (though -- let's be honest, it's not like there were no well-written series from the 80's and 90's), then GT by extension deserves the same clemency. I still think that GT was bad, but the love of Z and hatred of GT is/was just a mixture of nostalgia and childhood edginess. Dude even admits "it wasn't that bad, actually" after re-watching it. Super, on the other hand.......has no excuse and deserves every bit of flak it gets.

[@ianfacerollsyou]

Honestly the show should've ended after Cell. Goku's sacrifice to save Earth was so impactful because he couldn't be wished back again, Gohan with his hidden power potential that was foreshadowed since fucking Raditz finally came to light as he became the first ascended ssj (not just bulked up like Vegeta and Trunks), was just a good story to end on.

[@KallusGarnet]

Blame Japan they only wanted Goku, they weren't interested in a boruto.

[@magentapurpleyap5566]

For me, Dragonball ended at cell for me.

[@bornindissonance6312]

That would've been...wait for it...PERFECT

[@manjinderkaur3840]

TFS did it

[@jantheking7028]

In terms of logic, that is probably true, but I really like how he extended it. I personally really like the Buu saga and I also like the Black Goku saga and the Moro arc in the manga

[@HelloimOrchid]

Back when I used to watch a lot of classic anime with my brothers, I never realized when watching DB and DBZ that it was a progression of struggle (maybe it was because I saw Z first, then DB six years later) but realizing that epiphany makes me appreciate battle stories a lot more, which is also why I enjoy series like HxH and Ippo so much. They resonate deeply with me, especially when I realize there's things you can struggle towards and you won't end up winning every battle.

[@toon_joe]

CydoniaOS I was gonna comment something but honestly you just said everything I was gonna say😂

[@j.2512]

The original DB was never about progression in strenght. Until maybe the later arc against piccolo. Otherwise it was about traveling to places and meeting funny quirky characters. It was about adventure and humour, fighting was the least of it. GT tried to go back to exactly that.

[@juliusjohnson8046]

@@j.2512 That's not really true. Goku is always looking to get stronger. Look at the first World Tournament arc. Look at how he goes from a simply disciplined martial artist to learning the Kamehameha within the first 10 episodes. While adventure was a part of the show, Goku's always grown through the series, learning how to cover his weaknesses in battle and find new ways to fight, then getting trained by Roshi and gaining the desire to grow stronger.

[@theguy4319]

I feel the same, Dragon Ball was over when Cell/Buu saga ended, now even if there was great well-written sequel to this series, it just would not be Dragon Ball anymore.

[@e1iteyoshi998]

Personally for me GT is basically a Dragonball Z followup where it had great ideas for the arcs, but they were never fully utilized to their true potential.

[@kazenriq]

*_Now, what about Super?_*

[@StonedLoner999]

It would make no sense to do a super one cause super is literally better then dbz in almost every way.

[@grace90xgracer40]

@@StonedLoner999 super is better than GT but only half as good as DBZ which was EPIC... super is not epic BUT has Epic Concepts/ideas

[@StonedLoner999]

@Grace90x Gracer In my eyes super is on a much grander scale and more epic then dbz I mean the fights are extremely well animated and are fun to watch due to how fast paced they are. The animation of the show in general is a big step up compared to db and dbz its colorful vibrant and overall pleasing to the eyes. The transformations are one of my favorite parts as they are badass in dbz it was "power up gain a yellow aura power up again oh nothing new? nope just still a yellow aura power up to ssj3 anything different? eh his balls drop a bit and his hair grows but beyond that still the same stupid yellow aura" in super its "power up to god get a cool red aura power up to blue get a cool blue aura power up to ultra instinct and you get the best looking animated aura i have seen in anime" I just feel people are hating on super cause they are too blind to see how good it really is.

[@grace90xgracer40]

@@StonedLoner999 it's like your comparing a MORE WELL MADE pepperoni pizza (DBZ) to a Sloppy Supreme pizza that simply has more toppings (Super). Super only beats Dbz in technological Advancements which is not a far comparison on part of DBZ coming b4 Super. And as far as GRAPHICS DBZ annihalates everything in super that not the last episodes of super or the first fight with Hit. Just compare Trunks turning SSJ for first time in Super to him doing so in history of trunks special. DBZ was PERFECT... Original DB and Super are almost EQUALly great Super being only SLIGHTLY better leaving GT in last place

[@StonedLoner999]

@Grace90x Gracer Well if you put it that way to me dbz is that shitty pizza company pizza hut with cardboard pizza not something id constantly go back to since something better is already out now and super is pizza 73 with nice crust not cardboard at all and made correctly that I will come back to over and over again. I just prefer better animation in my anime and super has that in spades! db isn't colorful or vibrant sure it was still nice on the eyes and very entertaining but it wasn't exactly what i want out of a anime like that but I let it go because for the time it was released it really was amazing. Dbz again isn't colorful or vibrant but yet again was good and entertaining and pleasing to the eyes for the time it was released as well. Then super came out and just blew everything out of the water with how great it was animated. There really is no way to improve db supers animation much more its almost top tier animation. There are maybe what 5-8 anime out there that can even come close to matching how good its animation is yet people are still so blind they complain about it.

[@ArcaneEther]

I always thought it would have been cool if they gave Pan her own transformation that was derivative of Super Sayajin, but not quite the same. Since she was only a quarter Sayajin, she wouldn't have pure enough Sayajin blood to achieve full Super Sayajin. Instead, she could have reached a "Pseudo-Super" state in which she got streaks of gold in her hair. It would have be a much stronger form than her base, but not on the same level as a Goku, Gohan, or the others. It would have pushed the narrative that she needs to get stronger on her own, without relying on Sayajin heritage for a power boost.

[@saivarsha]

I mean her grandkid got full Super Saiyan so why not her

[@bigshreknotsmallshrek6657]

I think she can go super Saiyan cuz cell had a bit of Saiyan in him and could do it

[@WarpPal]

Well if you watch the saiyan saga in Japanese Vegeta speaks to Napa about Saiyan human hybrids having equal or greater potential due to the dominance of the saiyan gene's. It's definitely possible for Pan to go super saiyan.

[@jrus690]

Pan should have had Super Saiyan 2 right out of the box, I mean, half Saiyans achieved Super Saiyan without effort as children. Videl, Krillen, Yamcha, Tien all were able to use Kai power and they are not even aliens that are born with strength. Android 18 was a human with cyborg implants and she had insane Kai ability, the most powerful character outside of the aliens. This is what pissed me off about 18's usage in the Buu saga was that Krillin defends them but it should have been Android 18 as she does not lose stamina. Bulma was the only girl that actually had purpose throughout the entire series and she did not have any power.

[@ekki1993]

Haven't you heard? Side characters are not allowed to be powerful since the Buu saga. Also, "not relying on saiyajin heritage for power boosts" is not a message you get from her powering up to a pseudo-super state that's only possible because she's quarter-saiyan. It's also not a message Dragon Ball ever cared about. Since DBZ it has always been about abusing powerups mostly tied to your race (all ssj transformations, namekian fusion, cell being made from strong fighters, frieza being a prodigy from a strong race).

[@j.i.k2.044]

GT fans now a days hate on DBS because Z fans did not like GT but the problem with their biased hate towards Super is that the DBS manga at least has a solid arc in comparison to any GT arc. Better build ups, more exploration and better use of established lore within the franchise

[@Dogman1993]

>says how much baby wants to avenge his masters because saiyans destroyed their race >2 minutes later: the fight with baby sucks because there is nothing driving baby to fight wat

[@Jfrost9101]

To be honest (and I am playing devil's advocate here) at that point Baby basically boiled down to the same thing Buu did. "Get stronger for the sake of it".

[@samquik]

At 11:45 he says that Baby did have motivation again lol, kinda mixed messages. I get his point though, I personally don't find Baby interesting at all.

[@dooplon5083]

A character motivation is a driving force, sure, but it doesn't mean that every action I take after automatically relates to that goal. If my motivation is that i want to avenge my father but instead i play tetris for 3 days straight can it really be said that I did it because I was driven by my father's death? Are the two actually all that related? I'm pretty sure what he meant was "he may have had a solid motivation at the start but by this point he had degraded to where I couldn't realistically see his actions being driven by his original motivation anymore, thus I was no longer emotionally invested"

[@NASTAR01]

@@dooplon5083 As someone who just finished a rewatch of GT I can safely say that Baby's motivations (vengeance and the creation of a new home) were never lost throughout the arc.

[@wolfgod6443]

@@NASTAR01 I beg to differ. My "favorite" example of Baby forgoing his motivations is when he turns Golden Great Ape. He is worried, after seeing what happened to Goku, that he will go mad and destroy his home as an ape (which is the last thing he wants), but is forced to transform to save himself. Then, he goes on a rampage like he feared...except he didn't actually lose control. He was really testing his might by destroying the city, to which Goku says something along the lines of "are there no depths you won't sink to". That is a clear cut "tell not show", but worse because he literally does the exact opposite of what he claimed he didn't want. His whole abuse of his subjects is also an issue. He displays a gleeful willingness to kill them (even threatening Goku he'll destroy the Earth) despite how their existence as his subjects is, like, half his motivation for being evil in the first place as they are his new Tuffle race. I don't want to say Baby is just "a bad guy trying to do a bad thing", but he really does ignore his own motivations. Or rather, he conveniently, and consistently, forgets his motivations minutes after proclaiming them.

[@HelloimOrchid]

Thank you for the early Christmas gift.

[@DrCaesarMD]

I overall still enjoyed it. It was fun and had a lot of interesting concepts

[@FibaFanatic]

Didn't watch the video but there might be a typo there. It says "GT" instead of "Super".

[@Mad_Beefs]

NextYato Super is better than GT and that’s facts

[@superexclusive452]

Hotcheetojuice yep Lol Watch Rhymestyles video too He said DBS Broly was the best anime movie ever. Gt fans are sick😂😂

[@FibaFanatic]

@@superexclusive452 DBS Broly probably gonna be great! They put a lot of time and effort into it. Wouldn't suddenly make the 140 episodes of DBS better though

[@jmantime]

actually GT is over 20 years old

[@davidhong1934]

Oh my God I'm old!

[@mjangelvortex]

@Steve Vento You're correct. Dragon Ball came out in the 80s and Z and GT came out in the 90s but lots of countries didn't get dubs of either until the early 2000s I think.

[@SlumpDF]

good video and all but I disagree heavily, mainly regarding baby. there was a very good plot for that story. from baby being a tuffel and trying to get his revenge for his race, to taking over Vegeta and becoming an ape (the thing he hates more than anything), to Goku seeing earth and Pan bringing him out of his ape state. also, ssj4 is the coolest and most badass transformation in dragon ball. it wasn't just "a bad guy doing a bad thing and a good guy trying to stop it". he literally brought back planet vegetable/plant which created an insane environment

[@mrhopadopalus]

I genuinely hate when dbz only fans talk about the dragonball franchise they always disregard the original dragonball and sometimes just never watch it, “we watched goku grow up during dragonball z” no we legitimately watched goku grow up in dragonball we watched gohan piccolo and vegeta grow up in z, he says that Gt didn’t have the “Feel of the dragonball” when that whole space arc was a call back to the first arc of dragonball, don’t speak on the series as a whole if you don’t know it’s roots. Making direct comparisons is ok but don’t make a grand statement about the franchise if your not going to include the original.

[@DeathsInverse]

Yeah nobody cares about Dragonball

[@mrhopadopalus]

DeathsInverse I think it’s better than Z

[@DeathsInverse]

@@mrhopadopalus well then your credibility resides in the neighborhood of zero.

[@mrhopadopalus]

DeathsInverse what makes Z better than dragonball?

[@DeathsInverse]

@@mrhopadopalus the fact that it's actually good for starters. Not to mention it's not designed for children under 10 years of age.

[@jetx2599]

If you’re going to criticize super Saiyan 4 then the same problems exist for super saiyan 3 and mystic Gohan. Also buu was literally just a bad guy being bad. Up until buu absorbed Gohan and the rest. There was no narrative reason to fight buu besides he’s evil

[@cheesekimbap2996]

buu was a feared entity all throughout the universe. even Frieza and his dad feared him

[@jetx2599]

Cbtobio Mail you can say that for anyone and that was a retcon. “The Shadow Dragons were feared entities that would destroy the universe .....”

[@MrTBSC]

buu was a consequence of babidis thirst for power like his father before him ... though yes the fight against him could have been avoided if the team would have just straight up defeated babidi and his minions ... but buu's appearance was primarily vegetas fault

[@jetx2599]

MrTBSC that’s reaching. I could say that for the shadow dragons too. “The shadow Dragons were unforeseen consequences of the Z Fighters saving everyone. They were built up the whole series and finally they were freed. It shows that even good things have consequences” See I’m reaching too and can make the same points. Also buu has existed before Babidi and his father

[@MrTBSC]

@@jetx2599 yea and? not like i would say you are wrong ..

[@denn2ya]

I loved the Brazilian op song. It's seriously heartwarming and marked part of my infancy, I know all the words till today.

[@nobyra]

Me de a mãoo pra fugir desta terrível escuridãaaaao Da até calafrios

[@jesuscristo6854]

Seu sorriso é tão resplandecente!

[@thisisnoplaceforahorse872]

Taco

[@GustavoHenrique-fz1yd]

A opening era ótima mesmo.

[@vivamexico254]

Same thing happenef to us in mexico the song is great

[@blackestmamba]

As a kid, GT was what got me into dragonball so it was, in hindsight, a clever idea for them to make it more kid friendly because it captivated a new audience. Also, the opening music in my country was catchy as all hell, everyone from my generation knows the song from beginning to end

[@retanoab]

Isn't most of the criticism here also present at the Buu saga? I mean, in it, we got: - an initial episodic, more comical/childish plot (Gohan's Great Sayaman run and romancing Videl); - a villain without any emotional connection to the heroes he opposes, and no drive or reason other than being evil (going as far as Buu's true form being borderline irrational); - unearned, casual new power levels being discarded as quickly as they were achieved (SS3 form, Gotenks and Vegeto); - regression of previous character development (Gohan's life of training to succeed Goku is discarded) - heavy contradictions to the Growth Through Struggle ideals (Gohan - and even Gotenks to an extension, characters who actually tried hard to improve themselves, were quickly disposed of, and even Goku's victory over Buu is only achieved by a wish to Porunga)

[@schemar17]

Because its ok to Critique GT but not critique Z

[@JacobSteakfries]

I mean Buu Saga is the least loved mainline saga in Z so.....probably not a coincidence.

[@kittentacticalwarfare1140]

Yes but no. -Gohan playing power ranger and his romance with Videl is to showcase how chilled the world is without a universe-nuking menace and why Gohan became so weak(he is no longer struggling nor training). -Buu has no connection with the main characters and Kid Buu is borderline irrational. Well because Buu is the first character who is evil just because, every other character had reasons to be evil and on the greater picture of DBs world Majin Buu was a threat to anyone that was not stopped before just put to sleep because it's maker(in the manga is just a mage who managed to control Buu by knowing a spell to capture him and release him) couldn't control him %100. -SS3 is the result of Goku's training in the afterlife, is explained it doesn't work very well in the mortal world because is a form that was achieved in another dimension were not even time works the same way, is not discarded simply no one knew how to properly use the transformation which makes sense and due to how much stamina and ki it consumes it was not an insta win given the power gap was not that of Cell vs SS2 as to give an insta win(Gohan fucks that up as well). Not discarded. Gotenks was the result of a technique Goku learned(offscreen sadly) while in Yadrat and only failed because it was literally used by children, also Gotenks can use SS3 better than Goku at that point because a fusion has greater stats allowing them to sustain the transformation properly. Not discarded. Vegeto was a desperate measure and was foreshadowed since Shin got introduced then pretty much confirmed when Elder Kai showed up. Vegeto was not discarded but rather for whatever reason they decided to go inside Super Buu to try and rescue those he absorbed before nuking him which given they have the dragon balls is quite pointless, but you could argue that just because you can resurrect your family doesn't mean you'll just go ab nuke them even if it means saving the universe. -regression of previous character in Gohan, well is not only Gohan's base character being allowed to exist in a peaceful world but also blame the fans as Toriyama wanted to end Z with Gohan taking the mantle but everyone wanted Goku back so his manager made him do it, just like Cell transformations being rushed because the manager didn't like the looks. Honestly most of the issues DB has have always been due to the short deadlines and demand it got from it being too popular, anime has always had even more issues than the manga because it's always being rushed before the manga is completed giving us very bad filler. This is why specially with DBS the manga is better. -Contradiction of the character growth through struggle, not really. Gohan and Gotenks were not discarded they simply couldn't keep up with the ever evolving menace that was Majin Buu(also having Goku return as MC obviously meant he was going to be the one to win the fight). Majin Buu is the first villain to simply be pure chaotic evil and was also the one villain they couldn't defeat alone, this is why everyone even Goku failed at defeating the main villain alone as it has always been the case in DB up to that point. Majin Buu was a threat to everyone, while Frieza and Cell were capable of destroying the universe neither of them would have gone there as Frieza was trying to rule the universe and Cell to test the limits of his perfect form which requires the universe to be around for him to test himself out. Using the Dragon Balls to help win the fight is okay as that's why the whole journey of Goku began to get a wish granted by the Dragon Balls and having both sets of the (at that point the only two in existence) Dragon Balls to create the conditions to defeat Majin Buu is a good use of the most infamous plot device DB has. Also it was partially the Dragon Balls the one thing that won the fight was the Genki-dama made by everyone Goku has saved over the years, Goku being helped to win by those who got saved by his actions in the past is a good thing, and it only could have failed because Goku was too exhausted to push the Genki-dama down on Kid Buu which is why the wish had to be used to restore his energy granting him victory. OP did fail by not mentioning Buu saga that much since is the less favorite saga and that I argue is due to the fact the author was forced to bring back Goku to be the MC, but even then it doesn't reflect the major issues of DBGT. SS4 comes out of nowhere unlike SS3, I think the real issue DBGT had is that it tried to go back to DB, SS4 being in fact not a super saiyan transformation but the power of the Oozaru under control is a good idea but fails given that was already used in DB when Goku drinks the God water and uses the power of his Oozaru in human form to defeat King Piccolo.

[@schemar17]

@@kittentacticalwarfare1140 gohan was never meant to be the main character in buu saga thats a lie And SSJ4 didn't come out of nowhere it had goku combine 2 already existing Transformations together while SSJ3 was just goku screaming

[@kittentacticalwarfare1140]

@@schemar17 it's not a lie, the Buu saga starts right after Cell saga where Goku was left dead because Toriyama wanted Gohan to be the MC, Goku was brought back because the fanbase wanted him back that's a simple fact. SS3 was the result of Goku training on Otherworld and he even explains he cannot use it well because of how different the mortal realm is. SS4 may be seen as the combination of two transformations but is nothing Goku trained for(unlike SS3 which was Goku training in the afterlife to go beyond SS2) it simply happens because he needs a new transformation to beat Baby, also notice how even if SS3 was pulled out of nowhere it didn't grant anyone automatically a victory just because. Someone has not read the side materials for DB because is stated SS4 is not a super saiyan transformation but an alternate transformation of the Oozaru form, which makes your statement about it being a mixed of two forms false.

[@LeonM009]

I know I'm not gonna be the only one to like Super Saiyan 4's design over Super Saiyan Blue's.

[@DoctorLazers]

SS4, the gorgeous glam gorilla. Too over-complicated for my taste. I preferred Super Saiyan God/Blue because it kept things simple instead of the equally over-designed SS3.

[@SheltonPiresPires165]

Super saiyan 4 is the best transformation better than regular super saiyan

[@arenkai]

SSJ4 just looks like a final form, and I think that's awesome. Blue is just a color swap and seems like it was designed with the cynical idea that DBZ characters change hair color when they get powerful.

[@armin151103]

Gt is shit but ssj4 is waifu

[@Fojabass]

SSJ4 = *Literally the Best Looking Transformation in Dragon Ball*

[@Quimper111]

Jiren is basically all your critizism of super 17 + omega Shenron and more...

[@Nunubotz2]

nop jiren has motivations, you like them or not is one thing, but jiren is not a guy that wants to destroy every one just because he wants.

[@Quimper111]

What i was refering to was how well developed his motivations were. Not exactly 'what' they were. In effect, they were so anorexic that he effectively became just as one dimensional and villainous as the other two. I think many of us expected something more interesting. Maybe he could have come from one of the 4 original universes that were destroyed and thus had an agenda towards the omniking and the angels. A cataclysmic event turned him from good to bad and his motivation could have been to resurrect his destroyed universe. As it was, his backstory was introduced too late and was so uninspired it might as well just not have been touched upon at all. It didn't change peoples opinion about him and it didn't make him a more interesting character.

[@PrepareToHi]

A lot of people are bringing this up and I feel like he's just talking about Z vs GT in this video and not super at all

[@ten7554]

Not quite, but he is still bad. He at least has some semblance of a backstory and motivation, albeit unsatisfying and stupid ones.

[@dorneanurares-stefan5843]

While Jiren is not a good villain I feel like he is not the focus of that arc .In my opinion it focuses more on re experiencing dragon balls greatest hits which I think it pulled of pretty well all things considered .(excuse my bad english .I am not a native speaker)

[@s_anandsurya]

As someone who’s never seen Dragon ball. And only completed Z through low quality real media player files. I loved GT.

[@SAPProd]

That “ass pull” of Goku achieving SS4 is the exact reason why I’ve hated the same “ass pull” of making Goten Super Saiyan (and Trunks to a lesser extent).

[@clover4522]

Mr Sack Always never liked Goten as a character, he's just a Kid Goku clone

[@clover4522]

Grannvale Flame Emperor Trunks I guess but I agree with Goten. I would say Trunks and Goten going SSJ though makes more sense than Caulifla and Kale going SSJ so easily, especially coming from a universe where the SSJ didn't exist before the Saiyans met their U7 counterparts. U7 had a SSJ form before Goku and was only seen as a legendary myth before Goku made it a reality.

[@wanilimbe]

Asspull..tail..nice pun

[@Koraxus]

Buu saga is actually where many of these issues started. Both GT and DBSuper doubled them down though.

[@HeyItsFranklyn]

It’s not even an asspull though Goku didn’t go ssj4 the moment his tail was pulled he completely glossed over everything with the golden great ape.

[@harvalite5737]

As someone who just rewatched all of DB, DBZ, and DBGT, I feel I can say that, in reality, GT was actually a very solid series. The black star arc was very reminiscent of early Dragon Ball, including the ridiculous enemies, like Monster Carrot, and as a fan of Dragon Ball, I respect that they made it feel like the original series. The Baby arc was also good, taking the past of the Saiyans and painting them as invaders, making the villain sympathetic, as well as giving SSJ4, the most unique transformation in the entire series. We don't talk about Super 17, that was trash, but so was Garlic Jr so what can ya do. The Shadow Dragons, in theory, were phenomenal. Having the wishes made throughout the series have repercussions was fantastic, as it made the characters reflect on the choices that they made. Now the issues are admittedly huge. Pan was bratty and irritating, Goku being a kid again took away the feeling of him being a force of nature, Vegeta and the rest of the group were massively disrespected, Uub was completely useless after being built-up in Z, and the Shadow Dragons should of proven a real threat considering the nature of them being the final villains. But to me, GT is actually great, and the only Dragon Ball series that I felt sad when it finished.

[@nathanmantle377]

Nobody seems to understand this, and I guarantee the hatred for GT was mostly a westerner thing, because unfortunately, many of us didn't watch the original Dragonball (I did). So when GT came out, people expected it to be just like DBZ, but it wasn't, and it was more similar to DB in many ways, and people just didn't get that. Ugh ...

[@fireassassin1688]

@@nathanmantle377 gt didn't do too well in Japan though because it had no manga

[@Sumguyinavan_]

I loved the idea of the evil dragons, I just didn't like the execution of any but Omega Shenron. Goku and Vegeta teaming up and fusing always has awesome results of strength and personality. But the idea that the characters of Dragonball needed to stop relying on the Dragonballs and that they had misused an ancient power was an excellent concept.

[@rosePetrichor]

What's weird is that despite all this, GT seems to have more respect for the lore and history of Toriyama's world than, well, Toriyama himself, who freely admits he writes in the moment. A lot of GT's concepts have ties to earlier parts of Z or DB in quite nice ways. The Shadow Dragons being borne of old wishes, Baby being a member of the Tuffles who were mentioned by King Kai way back in the Saiyan arc, Super 17, and then the ending sequence where Goku visits all his friends one last time, which is remarkably touching and does feel like there was some real heart behind it.

[@TheAeoxEternal]

Ss4 was the PERFECT form since goku and saiyans are a reflection of sun wukong, the monkey demon king. Personally, all the palette swaps in Super are just insulting.

[@vendaboi8652]

Quasinconsistent. Not making this up, I remember a friend and I making fun of how many transformations where in DBZ, stating that they might run outta numbers and may even resort to colors next. Low and behold a decade later: “THIS IS SUPER SAIYAN BLUE!” 😂

[@donutak74u]

It is actually so cool. It fits what super saiyan is thematically supposed to be as a form of ultimate power born from rage. So of course taken to its peak this rage becomes animalistic and that manifests in the appearance of the form. Fuck at the very least it's more creative than a mortal kombat style pallette swap.

[@voraxe3032]

@@donutak74u YEAH BUT... were the shirt go? why do he clothes even change color? why pink red body hair and black head hair? its got flaws

[@denisn8336]

@@buttsmcgee50 lol na

[@LinkinMark1994]

@@voraxe3032 You got me on the clothes, but I've known people who've had facial hair that's colored differently from their head hair. Also, alien biology.

[@edwintorres2530]

"Transformations are great and always have this deeper narrative behind them" Goku: yeah, I learned how to become super saiyan 3 by just training, with no stakes, off screen, while dead....

[@compresseddepression7403]

I mean it did take him 7 years to be able to just barely master it. It just happened off screen.

[@silentlamb21]

That probably explains why SS3 didn't really benefit him story wise.

[@emibudd2228]

It really just seem like he's idealizing DBZ while putting down everything he can about GT. And to be fair he's said multiple times that DBZ means a lot to him, so I don't think it's wrong to look at it from a biased perspective. But yeah, SS3, everyone who powered up via the Namekian elder who just touched their head and made them more powerful, young Trunks and Goten turning super saiyan (which I don't mind since it's used for comedic effect but still, no real stakes or training).

[@theguyyouhate]

i mean he also claimed they came trough training but most of them came trough emotional outbursts, fusions or out right deus ex machina. the only point of Z where it was training that made them significantly stronger was the sayian saga and training with king kai and if we're generous gokus traing on his way to namek(which honestly felt way more like an ass pull than deserved powerups.) honestly i feel like just as he went back to GT and realised it wasn't as bad as he thought i think he could easily go back to Z and realise it isn't as good as he thought.

[@bamjamw]

Buu arc sucked

[@BlueLightningSky]

GT was clearly meant to recapture the feeling of the early original Dragon Ball (not Z). That's why we had the kid Goku and Pan and Trunks in that episodic set up. Pan serves as a replacement for Bulma and I guess if you need a third character to travel with, Trunks is a pretty good choice since he is so popular. And maybe it would have followed the original Dragon Ball progression who knows. But there was a clear change in focus to wanting the show to be more like Z in the later episodes. Maybe it could have worked, with Goku finding other organizations to defeat. Introducing more characters to help out. But there's still the feeling of something wrong with turning Goku into a kid again just to recapture that feeling. Someone said I want a series that recaptures the charm of the original Dragon Ball but we need to still market Goku. Especially when Pan was already around and could go on adventures with Trunks instead. It could have easily been her journey. Not to mention going on adventrues with Trunks is also thematically appropriate. There was also Uub you could have thrown in. We could have gotten a nice progression of the old characters where they act as mentors. But instead we go back trying to please the fans of Z and try to recapture the magic of Z instead. And not doing a good job. There is a clear focus on Goku only in GT and maybe Vegeta. But Z had so many more moments for not Goku. Just think about how often Goku has been out of commission in Z and how that allowed other characters time to shine. GT seems to take this one aspect of Z, Goku and Vegeta, and just try to ride on that because it's the iconic parts of Z. The sad thing is that Super sees Z the same way. As a Goku Vegeta show. And sure the fanservice is great but people even got sick of it somewhere in the middle.

[@NotKomaeda]

Exactly GT was meant to recapture the felling of adventure that the original had but, most fans were used to Z so they reject it, then toei tried to return to turn it back in the way that Z was but the fan base already decided to hate GT not giving second chases though is was a little more popular in Japan that it was here in America. I one of the few that liked GT, Since i didn't know back then that GT wasn't part of the original story, I still like the series and I recognize that GT isn't that good but lest get real how many people really hate GT? and how many just jumped in to bandwagon just because it wasn't written by Toriyama?

[@VixXstazosJOB]

FINALLY lol

[@billzco6137]

u missed the point about progression in the video...

[@allenphillips5267]

NotKomaeda I watched it too and it Sucked that's why i hated it and thanked god when i found out he didn't write it and wanted nothing to do with it himself in a comment he made

[@chuviis3508]

Super is as decent as GT.They both throw out the Z fighters and only focusing only Goku.

[@maazamin7884]

Jokes on you Toriyama designed Vegeta with a new haircut and mustache

[@whyaregames4499]

You REALLY ignore the original Dragonball (not Z, the original) in this until the very end. GT started as a throwback to the original, then tried to become Z but did it poorly. It's not great, but it not being like Z isn't the issue.

[@HDSwiftty]

Why Are Games? But season 2 like the last episode pan which is gohans daughter was a grandma already and there was a goku jr and vegeta jr theres no possible way this would of been after the first dragon ball

[@flexican5399]

@@HDSwiftty what? He said the uploader hated the first part of it and saying it was an insult to the original dragon Ball, but the original dragon Ball was exactly that, adventure the second half was z. That grandma pan part was just the future

[@M8DLT]

Dragon Ball was alright, the begging was great but it had it boring bits, dragon ball Z was my favorite and super is my most favorite

[@oneutch4048]

Even original dragon ball have deep changes, in the begining all the combats ended with jokes and the "drama" was pretty childy (the biggest "danger" was Pilaf crew... so come on), but after the second tournament with the aparition of Ten Shin Han and King Picolo the tone changed, the characters could die and the world was in danger, the joke combats ended and things were pretty serious, DBZ was a logical step after that.

[@CloudTribe]

But Dragonball was an introduction the series. All the concepts and characters were new and its theme was to aquire the Dragon balls and for Goku to get stronger. GT offered nothing new.

[@ChinoWantan]

15 years from now: Dragon Ball Super: What The Hell Happened?

[@RyogaEchizen]

cant wait lol

[@davidhong1934]

For now, let's review: - Strange art style - Rehash of two movies - Pilaf Gang is there for...reasons - One/two/three interesting villain(s) - Gohan is a disappointment - Jiren is divisive - Ribrianne is so hated, she's a meme - Toppo is so ham, he's a meme - Tingly spines...okay - Frieza becomes the best character - Monaka is apparently the strongest - 90% of budget went to the food scenes - Budget frequently ran out for various episodes - Maybe

[@DuoPersona101]

Super is by no means perfect. But its still better than GT

[@gygedi]

@@DuoPersona101 i would go with GT over SUPER anytime... Super is literally just a cashgrab "lets make them buy more merch" thing. 0 creativity 0 story telling 0 characters and they dont even care about continuity. I dont see why anybody likes it.

[@giornogiostar3214]

@@gygedi Gt was litetally also a cashgrab and also more than Super actually, Toriyama wrote Super (yeah because he wanted more money, felt like it, whatever) but it's Toriyama's work. Gt was just made by the studio to milk the franchise more, with some ideas from Toriyama.

[@rahneegultiano7648]

The ending of GT man. Everyone getting old and will probably pass while goku lives on and becomes one with shenron. It’s a riding off to the sunset type of ending. The way he says goodbye to everyone really makes you see how far the journey with dragon all has come when he reminisces with his old friends. It really does feel like we grew up with dragon ball. And that song that plays at the end ohh man 😢

[@RockLee-es4ed]

I have no idea what your saying I tried to watch dragon ball GT but the fights and the main plot is just Horrible to me

[@weebrucifier8979]

@@RockLee-es4ed he said the ending?

[@moxtaionidk2160]

FR I like gt it was one of the first introductions to DBZ and I loved it

[@orangeslash1667]

@@RockLee-es4ed Fun Fact: Akira Toriyama HATED Dragon Ball Evolution so much that it motivated him to make more Dragon Ball.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

"Bon Para Para...Bonpappa! Bonparapara, bonparapara, bonpara, bonpara! I'm gonna lay this one down thick like whole milk! Raise the cane! Ra-ra, ra-raise it! Bonparapara, bonparapara, bonparapara, bonparapara!" "...And I now welcome the sweet embrace of death." _~ The Dragon Ball Community as a Whole_

[@kami_swift]

As vegeta said to black, you may posses the body of kakarot but you haven't experienced his hardship that built that body. This is what GT is to Z.

[@ultimate9046]

Thats super to Z at least gt touch on a lot of ideas and concepts from Z where super just uses nostalgic and fan services Now did gt handle them well not really did super do the fan service right....not really again

[@keaunceeclifton8044]

Gt handle characters badly

[@nate3271]

@@keaunceeclifton8044 super didnt? XD

[@kami_swift]

@@ultimate9046 Fair enough but I still prefer super to GT.

[@kami_swift]

@@nate3271 Super did do characters justice like krillin, vegeta, gohan, frieza and even roshi