The Connection Between Complex Trauma, Codependency, & Narcissism

Are you in a codependent relationship?
Are you stuck in toxic cycles of narcissism and co-narcissism?
If so, you’re going to want to tune in to today’s episode.
Steph & Craig welcome trauma expert, ‪@TimFletcher‬ to the podcast. Tim is a pioneer in the addictions and Mental Health treatment profession and an expert on complex trauma. He is the founder and president of RE/ACT (Recovery Education for Addictions and Complex Trauma). He’s also a counselor, a researcher, and a pastor.
Tim offers up a masterclass on complex trauma and its connection to codependency.
He breaks down how children who experience complex trauma in childhood will oftentimes have one parent or caregiver who is narcissistic or displays narcissistic traits and will in turn form a codependent relationship with that parent or caregiver.
Tim goes on to explain the cycles of codependent relationships, how addiction plays a role, what you can do if you find yourself in this type of relationship, and so much more.
Buckle up because there’s a lot of information covered and you’re going to want to catch it all.
Connect with Steph & Craig:
Watch the episodes on KZbin- / @stephandcraig
Follow Steph & Craig on Facebook- / stephandcraig
Steph & Craig on Instagram- / steph.and.craig
Steph & Craig on TikTok- / stephandcraig
Sign up for Steph & Craig’s newsletter- www.stephandcraig.co/
Disclaimer:
We’re just sharing our journey with you. We’re not licensed therapists, and this podcast is NOT intended as a substitute for the advice of a physician, professional coach, psychotherapist, or other qualified professional. Cool? Good deal. We’ll see you soon.
In this episode:
00:00 Understanding the Shame Spectrum
10:16 Exploring Codependency in Relationships
31:10 The Cycle of Codependent Relationships
33:32 Approaching Codependency and Narcissism with Compassion
34:58 The Dynamics of Codependent Relationships
36:16 Fluctuating Roles in Codependency
43:45 Differentiating Codependency from Healthy Love
48:14 The Influence of Childhood Experiences on Codependency
56:25 Understanding and Healing Codependency
01:04:36 The Role of Addiction in Codependency
01:07:42 The Connection Between Complex Trauma and Addiction
01:14:39 The Role of Self-Soothing and Coping Mechanisms
01:18:01 Understanding Codependency in Relationships
01:25:30 Breaking Free from Codependency
01:36:39 Creating Healthy, Interdependent Relationships
Connect with Tim:
Follow Tim on KZbin- / @timfletcher
Check out Tim on Instagram- / timfletcherco
Tim’s Website- www.timfletcher.ca/
Tim on Facebook- / timfletcherco
Expect the best. Plan for the greatest.

[@StacyA406]

Tim Fletcher is incredible and an absolute gift to the world. I have learned so much more from Tim than any in-person therapist.

[@stephandcraig]

YES!! We completely agree!! We've benefited so much from his work. Thanks for watching!

[@rubberbiscuit99]

Children of narcissists learn co-narcissism.

[@stephandcraig]

@@rubberbiscuit99 💯🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@jarrod210478]

This man is helping to change the world….for the better. Bravo 👏

[@elsh332]

I was in a relationship with a covert narcissist without knowing it. I was very frustrated that all my "helping" was not improving the situation. I wanted a healthy relationship but, much to my avail, it was getting worse and worse. When he became physically violent and became jealous of my (disabled) child, I got outwith the help of police and other supports. I did a bit of counselling to reprogram my thinking and discovered that I was very much behaving as a codependent, or co-narcissist as you have termed it. I wanted something different but my programming from childhood had not been corrected, so I inadvertently was enabling the narcissist and then becoming frustrated and dissatisfied. I have worked hard to get real and honest and see what was wrong with the way I was doing things. Now I can tell when someone is trying to use narcissistic tactics and manipulation and I have some skills to deals with them. Self awareness, awareness of others, and grey rock when necessary are all fabulous tools I'm utilising now.

[@stephandcraig]

@@elsh332 that's an immense amount of work you've manage to do. 👏🏼👏🏼Good on you! 💜💙

[@theselfwithinus]

Wow! I wasn't aware of Steph and Craig's podcast until today. First of all, I have to give a shout out to them for having Tim Fletcher! He is THE master of understanding and decoding the human experience and giving the tools to navigate life. Second, excellent podcast Steph and Craig: your questions, concerns, observations were insightful and you both are so real, down to earth, and open. This was real, raw and refreshing. Thank you! I'm subscribing today :)

[@xbemos]

Welcome! They’re work is so validating 🎉 words for these issues are so hard to find and they make it easier! As well as allow some of us to know it’s ok to accept eachother and heal 🎉

[@stephandcraig]

Wow!! Thank you so much for the kind words. We're grateful you watched and couldn't agree more, Tim is amazing at breaking down these really difficult topics in ways that make it super easy to relate to and understand. Thanks for watching and subscribing!! 🙏🙏

[@stephandcraig]

@@xbemos 💙💜🙏

[@chafaq]

It speaks volumes to me. I was in a codependent relationship from both sides for 5 years. What a shit show 😊 the more I dig deep into my inner world and persist in therapy I can only say "Thanks mom and dad 😁" it took me 40 years of life to come to the realisation of my maladaptive behaviours but I hope I'll be the one to break the generational trauma in my family 😊 thank you for this podcast. There's nothing more valuable than doing the work to heal and grow ❤️

[@stephandcraig]

@@chafaq agreed! All any of us can do is work on ourselves. 🙏🏼🙏🏼🫂

[@reneclark2556]

Absolutely revelatory and such kind, compassionate delivery. Thank you.

[@stephandcraig]

Glad you found it helpful. Thank you for watching!

[@sophibrumby9542]

Tim’s individual sessions are truly valued and amazing but these latest interviews are *so* good! Thanks to everyone involved.

[@stephandcraig]

Agreed, we've gained so much from listening to his videos. It was awesome having him on the podcast.

[@mwah1478]

This is such a blessing to me and came just in time thank you for your service keep doing the good work😊

[@stephandcraig]

@@mwah1478 ohh wonderful. We're so glad you found it. 🫶🏼🫶🏼

[@elsh332]

37 minutes in, that beginning phase is mistaken as love bombing but it is actually more often idealisation. The narcissist will mirror you to cause you to see the best f yourself and have a true and deep love develop. You mistakenly think you are falling in love with them when, in fact, you are experiencing an intense self love; you fall in love with the best of yourself reflected back to you through the otherwise hollow narcissist. They have no true self so they highjack the best of you to imitate. You literally fall in love with your own reflection.

[@stephandcraig]

@@elsh332 hmm... interesting. Thank you for sharing. 🙏🏼

[@gracelewis6071]

Fascinating, I think this is accurate. There's no love in "love bombing" for sure.

[@ThisisPam]

This is definitely one of the most helpful podcasts I’ve ever heard. Thank you so much for sharing!

[@momione11]

I recognize myself so well. But it has taken a long time to get out of this grip. Grew up with a father with mental health. In that he had narc traits. Me and my brother were alone with him from the time I was 7 years old and my brother 6 years. They were on his terms. In between he could also be kind. Taught me to live on breadcrumbs. My mother met a new man when I was 9 years old. This man was polite on the surface but a devil inside and totally controlling my mother for 18 years. Became marinated in this energy and thought it was love. My mother is severely codependent and a people pleaser. A doormat. So I in turn choose men like my father and my mother's second husband. Because this is all I know. But in August 2021 my body and soul fall to pieces it breaks. I was so gaslighted that I lost everything. But this time I began to reflect soul. But went my way.Took a long time to recover.But this is a work for life.Even to never abandon yourself.Made so much pain inside.Even as a child I had to protect my mother.But no more ever.Almost 50 years. Feels energies immediately. So have started to use them in the right way and in a new chapter of life. Cried for two years when I started tough work with myself. To get out of the programming I got. No more codependency or people pleaser.

[@stephandcraig]

@@momione11 🥹🥹🫶🏼🫶🏼👏🏼👏🏼 thank you for sharing your story. 💙💜

[@xbemos]

Wow. Yes this. I keep trying to figure out why our generations are so pronounced w these issues. Were our parents all just generally jerks or are we the first generation that cares we don’t feel happy? Wonderful conversation on all sides!

[@stephandcraig]

Thank you for listening!! Great question too.🤔

[@xbemos]

@@stephandcraig 🙌❤️🌞

[@chrisnam1603]

it could be that we're the generation, after the generation that was in war & other misery (in my country, Belgium, and many others), it was a matter of surviving & there was no possibility to seek help or even realise how harsh things were (& more than harsh ofcourse), now it seems to 'grow open' (or how to i put this), that all comes out, since we live in a non war zone, and we have food & internet 'gratefulness', that humans (many of us) wish to find peace & knowing themselves good, solve problems, now that we can; and oh it's not easy.

[@stephandcraig]

@@chrisnam1603 That makes a lot of sense and totally agree, it's not easy.

[@chrisnam1603]

@@stephandcraig 🤗

[@lmoorelawpractice6214]

Fantastic content! Found Tim on KZbin during covid what a blessing he has been for my healing journey! Huge Thank you for you all!! ❤

[@stephandcraig]

@@lmoorelawpractice6214 Thanks for watching! 🙏🏼

[@gameaudioshaman]

Love Tim’s content. Awesome that he gets more and more exposure. Great podcast too.

[@stephandcraig]

He's amazing. We felt grateful for the opportunity to sit down with him. Thanks for watching!

[@gameaudioshaman]

@@stephandcraig I appreciate your more personal approach. Maybe I am wrong but I got the feeling craig was seriously triggered 1-2 times and worked his way through it live. That was very authentic and I seriously think that that is what’s missing in the podcast landscape. I subscribed wish you all the best.

[@stephandcraig]

@@gameaudioshaman 🙏🙏Thank you.

[@stanley1771]

Tim just gets me. Thanks

[@stephandcraig]

He's so good at breaking these tough topics down. Thanks for listening!

[@amberleibfried6788]

I love your videos, your podcast is so helpful for me as I grow and love myself and find myself. Thank you so much

[@stephandcraig]

You're so welcome. Glad to hear they're helping. Thanks for watching!

[@stevehartwell1861]

So much awareness here....thank you

[@stephandcraig]

Glad you found it helpful. We love the way Tim breaks down these topics. Thanks for watching!

[@popcultureperspectives164]

Narcissism has become a cultural phenomenon at epidemic proportion & there's also a lot of narcissists covering narcissism on YT. They suffer with the dichotomous (us vs them) thinking that gives us "empaths" (angels) & narcissists (devils). Narcissism as a cultural phenomenon is sadly the result of the Abrahamic faiths which gives us what? The concept that we're born in sin to a fatherly God that we must constantly exhibit loyalty & devotion to in a fear as love & obedience mentality. We must "serve" that jealous God lest we be punished for all eternity. We give up our own will & let his will be done in what denies personal responsibility, personal accountability, & personal maturity. Of course, this teaching has impacted the full scope of life & cultural philosophy. It's not something even atheists can escape, because it's at the root of our understanding of love, morality, & relationships. Love is obedience. Love is fear of rejection & punishment. I was born in sin (aka bad & wrong), & must dance on eggshells lest I be rejected. Think about it. What could be more narcissistic, than "God chose me"... I'm "chosen" to heal/save the world... heal/save souls". Judaism, Christianity, & Islam are all religions of high co-dependence & the philosophy at the root of even things like communism. We're in much deeper, as a society & culture, than we think. It is very much like the film "The Sixth Sense" where suddenly you see what was there all along but couldn't see before.

[@smintedinc2482]

lol - “WE HAVE TO WORK THIS OUT” - I’m guessing it was you who was seeing what your partner’s mood was, before you knew how your day was about to go? If it was, that realisation was for “you” - she might do the same thing and doesn’t mean we keep it to ourselves (though we could), however; one of the things I know for certain is that two people “recovering” together can be super codependent on each others and with each other and each others recovery. Help and relationship recovery together is great - but there also couldn’t be a better time to remind people “you do you”. There something incredibly charming and “authentic” about our partner recovering and bringing that new energy into the relationship without all the discussion and sharing and enmeshed-thinking. #recoveryreminder

[@stephandcraig]

@@smintedinc2482 thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. 🙏🏼

[@TrueSelf1111]

Excellent. This answered so many questions I've held.

[@claudiapenna8778]

Very helpful, thank you!

[@stephandcraig]

@@claudiapenna8778 🙏🏼🙏🏼 thanks for watching!

[@user-ms7do3fq1m]

Put on your shoes, man, respect your guest!

[@jenniekotoff6772]

Very insightful conversation! I really enjoyed listening to it and found much truth in it with regards to how my own life experiences from being raised by emotionally immature parents impacted my own attachment styles/programming & also my subsequent relationships. It's so encouraging to know that we're not alone in these struggles and how wonderful it is to know we are capable of learning, growing & experiencing healthier relationships moving forward. Thanks again.

[@stephandcraig]

@@jenniekotoff6772 thanks for watching and yes, healing is totally possible! 🫶🏼🫂

[@iw9338]

Thanks very much 😊 Excellent 👍👍. Recovering people pleaser here

[@stephandcraig]

@@iw9338 thanks for watching! 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@user-ok8mr6qz7h]

WOW never looked at it that way

[@stephandcraig]

Kind of crazy huh? He breaks things down so beautifully and makes it clear.

[@user-xo7we4js7m]

Thank you so much for these videos. 😊

[@stephandcraig]

Thanks for watching! Hope they're helping!!

[@user-xo7we4js7m]

@@stephandcraig They are, tonight I will be rewatching your video about codependancy with my partner, I'm so excited about this phase in our lives 🙂 Thank you

[@stephandcraig]

@@user-xo7we4js7m that's awesome! 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@geetagill9243]

Thank you!

[@stephandcraig]

@@geetagill9243 🫶🏼🫶🏼🙏🏼

[@iw9338]

Other people's happiness is Not my job. Respect self and others the rest is up to them.

[@nataliatrumpo3893]

I call it: his “Best Boy Behavior”, when he goes into this mode. 🚩😒

[@stephandcraig]

Totally!

[@howard1beale]

This is fascinating and so clear. At around 41:00 the explanation of how the co-narcissist role sets up the dysfunctionality of the relationship. In 12 step terms, the character defect of fear based dishonesty ( resulting in people pleasing behaviour) inevitably sets up resentment against the narcissist which the co narcissist truly believes is not only justifies but also validates their preferred ( maybe?) Victimhood. Result is loneliness and rage - expressed or repressed, which echoes the rage of the narcissist. Hope that makes sense.

[@stephandcraig]

@@howard1beale makes total sense. 🙏🏼🙏🏼

[@howard1beale]

@@stephandcraig thank you

[@AllIn1Studio]

Why did that woman not get a chance to speak or speak up? The I,balance is already apparent ….never seen this channel before but love Tim Fletcher.

[@annak29]

There needs to be consideration of neurodivergence in all this. It's not considered.

[@samanthabrown5871]

❤

[@quietspace5408]

Why is this called the Steph & Craig show? Steph barely said two words!! 🤣 All about the Craig show! And yes Craig you are the superior, very clear to all who watch.

[@teresa1710]

Totally agree.😅

[@dinakostarelou5999]

Τhe way you are sitting, touching your naked foot, while you are talking, is totally disrespectful for the other parts of the conversation group, take care of not doing it next time..

[@caroleminke6116]

Malignant overt narcissistic personality disorder should never be dismissed as simply benign narcissistic behavior ❤️‍🩹 my father was an abusive psychopathic misogynist & he set me up for more of the same by cutting me off @ the knees in every possible way. My own connection to more narcissists overtime was based on the familiarity of this awful mental illness, which is actually a vicious character disorder. It’s like a silent dog whistle from a rabid vampire & I just get sucked right back in again even though each time I believe the sick fairytale story will have a happy ending for my dysfunctional Cinderella. I really had the wicked step mother as well as two older stepsisters & also played the part of Cinderella in 3rd grade 🤦‍♀️ you cannot make this stuff up 👩 I wouldn’t wish it on anyone, not even a narcissist…