The Dark Truth Behind Gaming's Coolest Innovation

[@ShadowRoadX]

The dumbest part is they don't even do anything with the system, really. They don't do their own original IPs, so they have to wait to shoehorn it into whatever licensed IPs they get tossed, like what you mentioned with Wonder Woman. So not only do they restrict it from influencing other games, they don't even see any real benefit themselves.

[@petersonp84]

Right! They should at least let other devs 'license' it and use with permission, giving credit (and payment) to patent holder.

[@ChickenJoseph]

It’s such a shame that a studio as greedy as WB have such a cool idea locked up. Even just skimming through the patent, there’s so much verbose language that no studio would run the risk of trying a similar system.

[@revolverswitch]

warframe recreated the Nemesis System with no repercussions from WB though that may have more to do with how much they simplified it to fit in their own design philosophies.

[@JainaSoloB312]

I mean, Ubisoft did it They didn't do it well, but they did it

[@petersonp84]

​@@JainaSoloB312which Ubisoft game do you speak of?

[@evaander]

Yeah which one

[@johnny1max113]

@@petersonp84 he means assassins creed odyssey

[@alpacapines8553]

In Shadow of War, I died relatively early in my only playthrough. The Uruk-Hai that killed me, kept on killing me (murder, assassination, etc) until right before I finished the story. He got so powerful, to the point where he would get enraged if I attacked his weakness. Took me about an hour to finally beat him for good... and it wasn't even one-on-one. I had a dragon and a bodyguard equipped with his own guard. And yeah, he went through all of them.

[@JohnnyTwos]

So many games could benefit from this awesome system. I was disappointed when the mad Max game didn't use it!

[@INikeAir]

I hate corporate greed. Like what was the point of that? To stop innovation? (Obviously to have a chokehold on the tech) It truly sucks to think how the gaming industry used to function 10 years ago and how now everything is just about monetization. Smh

[@grand_tourist46]

I was honestly expecting them to lay into the horrendously manipulative monetization of the nemesis system in the second game and possibly imply that said monetization had always been the plan once Shadow of Mordor had firmly established a proof-of-concept. That said, patenting something like this is still shit, and was rightfully called out as such by Jim Sterling at the time. Now I can only pray that they keep utilizing and building on this mechanic (without horribly monetizing it 🤮) and not put it in the deep freeze the way Namco did with loading screen minigames back in the day.

[@DPresidential]

I cannot believe this only has 13K views. The Nemesis system is one of most revolutionary features in gaming. It is CRIMINAL that nothing has been done with this system beyond Shadow of War. Now, I really wish Msft would have purchased the study to allow the nemesis system be used and loaned out to all of its other studios.

[@UltraFlea]

I alwags found the system flawed because the best way to level up your character is to let Orcs kills you and promote themselves which drop better upgrades

[@alexz.8302]

That's not what the videos about though. It's about them cornering the market. Everything is flawed in some way or another.

[@UltraFlea]

@@alexz.8302 obviously i know thats what video is about, i was just giving my opinion on the system itself. His video is matter of fact piece so no additional opinions on his topic is needed.. Ofcourse all games are flawed but not all game mechanics are flawed...there various types of flaws also, unavoidable due to restrictions of design, ignorant flaws due to lack of testing, and in this case design flaws that are due to a poor connection between 2 systems. The loot/drop system made the nemesis system flawed probably due to poor communication between the individual developers. Without an closed and open beta devs dont get the information they need on how gamers play their games which is often different than how the Devs test them personally. The nemesis system isnt really complete while its connected to the loot system in this way.

[@samuelhunter4631]

How do you think this could be improved? Maybe create random events that can cause Orcs you've faced to become promoted? Or have Bounty Hunters that spawn to hunt you down, with rare loot?

[@UltraFlea]

@@samuelhunter4631 honestly its hard to to implement along side the ranking system.....The only things i can think of is maybe significantly increase orc levelling with other orc interactings, training, duels, rivalies to help increase base orc levels without your intervention....then maybe as subsystrm of either hits recieved based upgrade lvl. For example once you engage a orc the more hits he gets on you the more the quality of the time drop decreases from.+ orc base level to - orc base level with a max cap on both. An Orc level 10 if killed without him hitting drops a lvl 12 mod but can be reduced to base level 10 if he hits you too many times...and if he kills you he levels up 1 but his upgrade is reduced by 2 levels. Honestly these are just spit ball ideas....its a hard system to fix because how the difference game systems are interlaced.

[@bam_bino__]

sure if you are a min maxer i could understand this perspective

[@Conmaan]

The timing of this video couldn’t be better with what is going on with Dark and Darker’s IP dispute. Perhaps something to discuss in a future Nerdstalgic Gaming upload?

[@burrybondz225]

That was just a straight allegation of asset flipping. Not the same at all and wb didn't set that precedent.

[@SniperSpy10]

I remember assassins creed odyssey had a very dumbed down system, Different mercenaries with mostly randomly generated traits would take up a teir list, which you can work your way through to get new rewards and perks, fights were challenging and could ruin plans of not tended to, and characters you interacted with in the story could turn into these mercenaries. System felt dumbed down as there were alot less traits and you couldn't make any allies, and once you killed them the whole relationship was gone, only memory the merc had was if you left a fight.

[@JohnZ117]

Might have WB to blame for that. Ubisoft's attorneys knew that WB was pestering the patent office about it, so...

[@prestonmccoy7097]

Dude the Nemesis system is indeed one of the coolest interactions I’ve ever experienced in gaming. Knocked my socks off when I first played Shadow of Mordor and was even better in War. So many dynamic moments that not too many games can claim to give you! It’s sad that the Mordor franchise has died and that we won’t get too see it too much in the future. I’m not even sure how it’ll work in Wonder Woman, but I look forward to seeing how they implement it.

[@TheRealBlackarrot]

Such a cool innovation that hasn't been fully implemented into gaming. Imagine "The Nemesis" system in an Arkham or Far Cry game!

[@digitalon01]

WB is sitting on a system that would literally print them money if they were willing to license it out to other developers. There are so many possibilities! Just imagine if it could have been included in Starfield? Pretty much any open world RPG is a natural fit!

[@DPresidential]

Exactly! I said in another post that this argument alone makes me wish Msft would have purchased WB just to allow the Nemesis system to be implemented in a host of their games.

[@juliusfishman7222]

Lol even this wouldn't make starfield good.

[@DPresidential]

I actually think it would. ​@@juliusfishman7222

[@scolioreset]

Bloober Team did the same for their double worlds that you move one character in. The irony is that they didn’t create it as Fractured Soul did something entirely similar. Getting a patent for a game system or mechanic is silly. It’s been almost six years since that system was used and nothing has come out of it… except an attempt at making people spend on gear or powers through microtransactions and lootboxes. That’s how Warner managed to get some “profit” with the Nemesis system in that sequel while the “OG” game was simple yet had that system that made it better than expected.

[@tylerbebensee3239]

WB should do a year 1 batman game with the nemesis system being used with thugs on the street or similar

[@iseeu-fp9po]

The Nemesis system made Shadow of Mordor a much better game and was amazing in itself. Despite not having a long story the player could sort of make their own and have fun with that part of it. I had no idea it was bought up by Warner Bros. and put in storage. This is exactly the type of immersive system games need. You feel that there is a memory in the game itself and among the NPC's. It sort of makes them come to life in a way. If only games like Elden Ring had something like that.

[@GraphicJ]

Good video. Will you do one on the Battlefield series?

[@CasualSpud]

Warner Brothers.. Why would such a shit company treat their gaming any differently than their music or movies?!? WB will be gone soon thankfully

[@timothylewis960]

I still haven’t finished the first one and it been almost two years but have the second one main story then I got bored with taking over and losing the region but I was playing Batman Arkham games during playing both shadows game and I realized how many times WB have used this fight system

[@TheDuckumz]

This game would have been fun if it didnt crash every fucking time i try to enter that cave with Gollum in the early stages of the game making it unplayable. Its been like 10 years and they still havent patched that shit out. Its even done it on 2 different builds...

[@helixmoss9957]

Bro is making it sound like the nemesis system was actually created using the one ring.

[@dennisdavidov782]

What has been Monolith doing since Shadow of War (which came out almost 6 years ago) ? I remember some talk about a Wonder Women game but they showed nothing about which is strange unless the game is in development hell. I'd rather see a 3rd Middle Earth game from them.

[@chillbizz74]

Patents can seriously ruin a good idea but it can also prevent it from being milked to death, the whole nemsis idea is so cool, yet they patented it and never bothered to use it in ANY OF THEIR FUTURE TITLES That's a wasted patent to be used for only 2 games

[@SicariiD]

Welp, prepare for the future of gaming™, a game™ with swords™ and characters™ and magic™ and stuff.. ™

[@M1keFoxxx]

I'd have loved to see this system in a batman game

[@ImakeTanks]

walmart sells 70% of all retail food in USA

[@nextmessi4249]

Imagine a nemesis system in a castlevania game filled with bad ass vampire lords

[@derianmcdougall1441]

Imagine, the artistic Renaissance. You're a painter, and you discover a brush stroke technique that changes the game. Only you're a bit of an ass, so you never share the technique and leave world. Never having shared with the world something unique.

[@crisschan2463]

its kinda weird they patent the nemesis sytem but never did a game with it lmao

[@edsonsengo2684]

Truly saddening really. Such an impressive innovation yet nobody can do jack shit with it because WB are just that greedy. What's worse is that they aren't doing shit with it. Gotham Knights could've used the system and who knows maybe it would've made the game a little bit better

[@TheOnlyRealGamerOnEarth]

Im so glad someoned talking about WBs shady patent.

[@juliusfishman7222]

I feel you shoulders release a game if you're not bringing any new thing to the gaming industry

[@masterluxu1]

Only because you asked Semi open world - nemesis system - Titanfall. Would be objectively the best use of the system. And save a long beloved and dead franchise in the process.

[@thenegativoneify]

Much more subtle not subtler

[@javopu]

I would love to see a daredevil game whit the nemesis sistem

[@brooksrobinson7246]

My only argument after watching 5 minutes Is that something In 2 games is not gamings greatest innovation

[@maniacmatt7340]

The story of copyright is interesting and infuriating.

[@emmyjr1231]

i really don't feel like this system works for Wonder Woman.

[@SethTraplifeGLO999]

I only played the first one. How is the second one? Enjoyed the first even tho I found the story very boring

[@charlesmaclellan8124]

Worth playing! Better in every way.

[@JakesFavorites]

It's fantastic, and since they neatly sewed up the open wound where their microtransactions used to be, it's actually a very fair game now. The limits to your power goes as far as your combat exploits will take you. When your MMR is so high that all you face is Chinese hackers, you'll know you've made it.

[@acidreighn]

Glad this travesty is being recognised.

[@klissattack]

The patent pisses me off. A batman game would have been epic

[@vargalasvett3494]

warframe has something similar but i think its different enough they got away with it

[@TomisaLami]

This is just basic capitalism. You’re missing the whole point. Warner Bros. didn’t make the nemesis system. The studio didn’t develop the game. The people who are selling their labor, so that Warner Bros. can profit off of their work made these things. The people who actually did the work do not own the technology they developed the patent gives the right to the capital owner not the employee not the person who actually does the work. And it’s even worse than that. If you follow the development of technologies to their logical and universal conclusion you think about all the technology required to make one game, everything that all humanity ever worked on is a collaboration. Game systems couldn’t work without the discovery of electromagnetism from Micle Ferde 200 years ago. Michael Faraday couldn’t have discovered electromagnetism if he didn’t have the technology of things like candles, even and who the hell knows came up with candles first.

[@LibertyGoblin]

Warner Brothers would rather focus on DEI, and woke nonsense than to make a good and woke nonsense than to make good use of the Nemesis system. It is wasting away behind their political DEI agendas.

[@hawwarii]

Perfect example of capitalism ruining art

[@donstarlancer]

What a crying shame

[@alexandreleao6689]

this porblem is so easily fixed, just overtrow capitalism with a violent and merciles revolution

[@DepartmentofAutism]

Either a Fed or a NEET with no life skills lmao

[@juliusfishman7222]

A woman woman game , lol that will definitely not be good

[@LoveableTheo]

First

[@ColtNomad]

I would have preferred a game where you can play an orc and use your racial relationship to build up armies in this orc civil war. I don't care for the plain human with magical ghost attached.

[@thatRyzzle]

I don't know… I've played both Shadow of games, and I thought they were okay. I'm not losing sleep over the fact that no other games are using the Nemesis System. It's overrated, in my book.

[@InvertedWIng]

Honestly, it always sounded like a stupid and gimmicky system to me. If I encounter some guy with a name and introduction, it means I can expect to have to kill him a dozen more times as he shows up to constantly interrupt me before the game decides to finally arbitrarily kill him off for real. And for some reason, he's getting STRONGER the more times I kill him, even though he's losing more limbs and accumulating more scar tissue which should make him weaker if anything. Repeat a hundred times. Screw that. I'm glad it's never been repeated outside of these games that do nothing but shit on Tolkien, though indeed, I wish it wasn't because of BS patenting laws.

[@Serocco]

It's a great mechanic because it gives them personality, makes them fun to fight, some are legitimately impossible to defeat, it's so much better than killing random nameless NPCs

[@DuyNguyen-bk1zv]

that's why it's called "Nemesis"

[@burrybondz225]

Man killing a monstrosity you made who is immune to everything and has no weaknesses is even better than killing from software bosses. Till this day I don't know if that guy was bugged but I was genuinely afraid of him. I don't know if other ppl had such experiences but that orc really stood out.

[@pimppastorjj]

The audacity to patent an idea, when the game itself is a rip off of other, older ideas from other developers!