The Great Season 9 Debate feat. Jay3, Fareeha & Bogur

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Timestamps
0:00

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 23rd February 2024. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why let SVB know on his stream where he would really appreciate your subs while he is trying to get into the Partner Plus Programme (www.twitch.tv/svb_ ) or his second channel The Soak (youtube.com/@TheSoak ) where he does movie, TV & anime breakdowns! The best way to support the podcast is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-season-9-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@nielsholmlassen8275]

Bogur suggesting every tank player learn one dive, one poke and one rush tank is so real

[@lukeaustin4465]

Nah I'll stick to dive, it's the most fun comp out of all of them. Poke is boring and so is rush.

[@bambampewpew32]

@@lukeaustin4465 nah hey rush is fun too lmao not poke though as much

[@bambampewpew32]

@@lukeaustin4465 but dive is the most fun yeah

[@Libreom]

@@lukeaustin4465 missing the point

[@nurikkulanbaev3628]

​@@lukeaustin4465 non mirror poke is good. Sigma is cool

[@AarPlays]

Cgi hair made me laugh thank you random twitch viewer

[@kayanono]

Bald to GM was my favorite

[@Deprece]

Jay is sitting up as high as he can in that chair 😂

[@momdad1818]

😭😭

[@Omen465]

For some reason I knew the top comment was gonna be someone roasting Jay3 💀

[@ValianTCoC]

He would be rubbing shoulders if he didnt

[@BapLampxSuzu]

6 foot 6 gaming wardlord from Florida

[@rioriorio17]

Why does he look so uncomfortable up there 😭

[@froxdo]

they did it. they grouped up

[@kerrinrix9541]

Awesome you had a chance to do this in person SVB. Keep it up love it.

[@user-rk2vr8oh2f]

Blizzard hosting ML7 for his interview and now this? Big W. Keep on engaging your content creators, and everyone benefits.

[@shlqx1129]

I'm actually surprised they passed on the opportunity to have him on the podcast as well. I mean, it's his very first time on creators summit I'm pretty sure and 2nd time in US. Like, that would be perfect

[@aiixc6776]

They have been cooking so far in 2024. Hopefully they continue sending out fillet mignons at the perfect temp. ( I’m starving rn lol)

[@alexanderodonnell691]

Why bogur always look like he want to beat the shit outta someone 😭 1:34:47 victory poses

[@Dawsvader15]

He has never recovered from lifeweaver

[@Summonick2]

He looks like the bad guy from a John wick style movie

[@mycelia_ow]

Playing that much Overwatch daily does that to you

[@ilovesteakandfries]

he’s fighting demons 😭

[@vopcracker3193]

Honestly, everyone except for SVB looks like they have a gun to their head doing this at all.

[@bigfudge2031]

I would have loved to have seen Jay 3 and ML7 in the same room argue about support/healer for 1 hour straight.

[@ggs7516]

Bogur taking UP that couch space. True Sigma.. player

[@chalupabatman4978]

Aren't tanks supposed to take space lol

[@TheShapingSickness]

Hes not sigma player he said winton 70% wr

[@yeetus076]

22:23 That has been the thing ive been saying to people who say that support should only heal. In my plat games, I have to keep my tank alive so he doesnt fall over. But the problem is that I will get dived by a genji, winston etc. and I cant feel safe, because my dps are in narnia flanking someone and not protecting the 2 players who can heal you. It doesnt work like that in ranked, you need to help yourself because 90% of the time, no one will help you...

[@largemargeog1023]

Jay3 is a DPS player through and through, his opinion here is about as valid as a theifs opinion on prison sentences. If you down an enemy they can’t do damage and you don’t have heal as much. It’s that simple. So if your team can’t down enemies, you will never win. If you can’t down enemies you are going to be at the mercy of RNG.

[@yeetus076]

I know and that wasnt what I wanted to say, ofc they need to kill. But the problem that I had in my games as a fellow support player currently getting out of plat is the following: My tank gets shredded so I have to heal them and keep them alive 24/7. But now I get dived by a genji and a winston and I have nowhere to run and cant kill them either. Now if my dps dont protect me, I probably get killed (not everytime tho). But if my dps do protect me then they cant get those good flank kills. And I cant go with them to flank because the moment I leave my tank with only 1 support, with the new passive they will fall over and die. So because of that I mostly try to find ways and angles where I can heal most of my team and look for a random pick. Phew that was a lot of text, I hope I could express myself correctly since english isnt my main language...

[@largemargeog1023]

@@yeetus076 no need to rephrase. I was validating and adding to your point. I completely agree.

[@johnnybernard]

The cgi hair and small 3 joke made my day 😂

[@AarPlays]

10:19 - referencing when flats dived in after waiting out discord orb (on Winston) and get 100 to 0'ed before he landed lmao

[@pigeon_9161]

W game W podcast SVB always handsome Bogur always hot Fareeha always slaying Jay3 W dev team L upper management but the team cooks anyways like underground illegal chefs or smth I love this game

[@mycelia_ow]

W comment

[@ilovesteakandfries]

the jay3 stray 😭😭😭

[@PugsleyThePear]

You didn't have to do him like that 😂

[@deonwalker6270]

LMAO "Jay 3"

[@kobypeterson]

Quality just keeps getting better with each episode. Wonderful job at moderating SVB, you really do a great job at drawing out interesting answers too.

[@Stiffmiester979]

I love how Bogur just peels right past the bs and goes straight to the point with his arguments. These guys all really understand the game on a deeper level, i just appreciate how Bogur is quick to dismiss excuses. His mentality on the game alone would help many players climb the ranks if they shared it.

[@SuperboneOne]

"Tanks should just adapt and learn every tank hero!" Meanwhile every DPS player only needs to know 1-2 heroes to be viable forever. Let's be honest, tank balance has been SO POLARIZING since the start of OW2 that we've had to learn almost every tank by now in order to not get rolled. Now 1/3 of the tank roster is deleted. It isn't fun to be forced onto a couple heroes while DPS can just do whatever they want

[@nielsholmlassen8275]

SVB so real for saying he doesn't want the mercy lifeweaver duo

[@x100bullets]

I need chapter tabs with topics Mr. SVB. I hope you're having a good trip!

[@DTAL953]

Really great banter with everyone in person

[@weekndfantasy]

i love this podcast episode it felt more real as if it wasn’t a discord call 😭 it felt like a chat between friends

[@jobo1799]

Was constantly on edge during this one because I kept thinking I was loading into a Colosseo match

[@skyler7017]

I love colosseo, am i a freak?

[@k-kayla]

​@@skyler7017Yes

[@jobo1799]

@@skyler7017 nah it can bang when ur team is rolling

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

That Skyrim homage though , love the Pod, keep up the great content!

[@dagclo]

Great Episode!

[@derekenero2102]

Hi severely enjoyed this. I hope blizzard hosts more of these podcasts. Great chemistry with this crew too!

[@krasmazov009]

This has been a good patch. Like hitboxes aside which we can smooth with time, everything feels better

[@myvalentineforyou]

this is the best one yet

[@zero13z34]

great episode

[@nadzrul]

This is such a great group - a lot of positivity, criticism and trash talking. love it! Production quality is also off the charts.

[@BuildingHP]

GROUP UP LIVE 🙏🙏 EXCITEMENT 🙏🙏

[@plain-bagel]

Congrats, SVB! Huge milestone to host the pod from Blizzard!

[@AkiraBuilds]

I never understood why people even used the term “dumbing the game down”. This was never about game sense and such. Even if this patch only buffed lesser skilled player’s mechanics (as it obvious would never do cause that’s impossible), even then it wouldn’t be “dumbing” it down. Cause this is about mechanics. Not game sense. And having good mechanics doesn’t make you a smart player.

[@TheShapingSickness]

Loved the flex!

[@THEM4RT1AN]

in person group up podcast hits different

[@beingbag2606]

The player base is so fragmented dude. Support main tank main. Maybe we all need to get back in open queue and flex until we have compassion for other roles

[@thefatefish]

Honestly, first time I've seen someone talking about this. Why are we pitting against each other and straw-manning the roles or heroes that are different from what we personally play? Not all "tank/support/dps mains" think the same but it's portrayed that roles or heroes are a hivemind that must take out the other competing "mains". All it does it make people defensive, and then they continue the cycle. All heroes and roles should feel good to play, and we should support that no matter who you personally "main".

[@aroguetea3580]

Right? Where is the love?

[@cammo2473]

So real, or people just need to be honest about the state of the game. Its OKAY for your character to be broken or strong and its OKAY for you to play a strong character the problem comes with gooning and downplaying and thats what makes people get upset 🙌🏾

[@IdLestat-jq2ci]

An observation I'd like to point out is when they were talking about Hog players being upset because they are picking a bad tank. Well Hog has been unplayable for quite some time, he was literally just Re-worked to be able to Exist, and so soon he's already unplayable and back on the Bench. Players have a right to be upset because it's not fair that Hog is completely unplayable and under performs in almost every situation. Even in seasons when Hog was bad or not Meta back in OW 1 6v6, no matter the tank combination Hog at least had a chance to Climb the ladders and exist. Hog and Ball players had a chance to exist. Now with only 1 tank, they are just completely taken out of the game. Other roles don't have this problem because you can have 1 bad DPS or 1 bad Support and still have 1 good one that offsets it enough to make a contribution to your team. Ana is terrible this season, however she can still make contributions. Unlike Hog that is unplayable indefinitely even with the reworks in place. That's why I'm an advocate for 6v6 and 2 tanks again. We need to make it to where any hero at least has a chance to be successful and is fun to play even when they are not meta, that they can at least fairly compete. @@thefatefish

[@vopcracker3193]

(Expanded for clarity) TL;DR: The sooner people realize 5v5 was the worst thing to ever happen to Overwatch, the sooner we can definitively come back as a contender in AAA FPS titles. 1. 5v5 paradoxically makes individual plays more impactful while making counterpicking/hard meta almost mandatory to even play the game on a casual level. Matchmaking exacerbates this issue further in QP, leading to stomps or confusing losses defined by character picks and player ineptitude rather than genuine mechanics, gamesense, or skill. 2. Tanks were oppressive in OW1 becuase of how they were optimized with OTHER CHARACTERS in the game (Baptiste and Brigitte in particular with DS and GOATS). Tanks themselves were never the problem and a year into Overwatch 2, the only thing 5v5 has done for them had made their job profoundly harder in service of DPS and Support's misguided complaints about Overwatch 1 gameplay. A straight line can be drawn between early OW2 Tanks being powerful due to bad positioning going unpunished in 5v5, only for an compensatory overtuned Support class to dominate half the game's lifespan as only _specific_ DPS were initially buffed to give Overwatch 2 SOME counterplay to cut through all of that healing. The obvious answer was to make Tanks into the raid bosses no one wanted them to be, which ended up happening anyway with Mauga's release and forced Blizzard's hand in making the changes we see in the game to try and stabilize what has ultimately gone full circle with 5v5's inherent design philosophy. 3. All this chatting to say this: I firmly belive these things largely contribute to the toxicity surrounding this game seemingly affecting even the banter of content creators obviously speaking in jest to begin with. Much of Overwatch 2 right now can be summed up as its playerbase continually gaslighting itself on what keeps it playing despite not having *any actual fun* with the game. We are continually told the changes made will improve individual impact while the opposite seems to happen with every patch, regardless of how the balance of power is structured within the format. The competitive nature of the game with its history in E-Sports makes an already critical environment even more egregious as players are constantly looking for a problem with their teammates, matchmaking or themselves instead of analyzing how the game plays on a fundamental level across all skill levels. _When you get down to it, Overwatch 2 has always felt like a glorified TDM to play without knowing how to optimize like an Overwatch 1 player and that will always be it's problem without even MORE significant changes to the way the game flows, if not a full revert back to 6v6._

[@WidestMoon625]

Green Hue progress bar over the HP bar when receiving 20% heal reduction.

[@_treed1]

Red hue would make more sense

[@Samuraithekid]

Y'all all look great! Good podcast as usual thanks again SVB

[@TheSchultzZ]

what the heck FAREEHA IS SWOLE

[@dwoodward931]

As a support player who's support abused for 20 seasons in GM/t500 what Jay3 said at 20:30 is so true lmao. Supports have been broken forever. I just played it because I enjoyed playing the role that can have the most impact determining the outcome of games. Now in s9 I play dps because now I feel like that role is probably the most impactful.

[@Experion121]

I wish blizzard would put half the money they spent on CGI for Jays hairline on the game 🤦🏻‍♂️

[@whaloob]

In the cloudy clip a key detail is that he starts to pin right as window drops-his shield hp doesn’t matter. Admittedly given how fast he died from the window, it probably wasn’t a great pin, but the amount of hp he was able to lose in that time was still insane.

[@chilledramen]

He tries charging after the shield breaks

[@AbzuLifeweaver]

37:31 Thats the one trick spirit right there! Same with symmetra for me in overwatch 1.

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

Adding some fun mode sure, but make it something to play during a long queue for those at the top elo

[@Youknowmikekhan]

Great banter this pod

[@wm8401]

Thanks for recording this at Blizzard.

[@InfernoZX5]

Edging your tank and dps is crazy to say. 23:54

[@bigfudge2031]

But it is fun to do...

[@InfernoZX5]

@@bigfudge2031 oh I didn't say there's a problem with edging them.

[@beermarket9971]

The pov is a bit akward but i'm so excited with this format i hope next time there is at least a table where everyone can sit and face each other rather than couch and all facing the camera :p

[@mr.meeseeeks5544]

I will say the amount of Widows I saw did increase a lot but the thing was that they don't know how to play Widow. They see Widow on enemy team and focus on the 1v1 when in reality if you pick someone else who is actively participating in the team fight then you win games. I've had plenty of games where I pull up the score board and see that my stats are much higher than the enemy widow just because I focus on tapping a tank for the burst and 20% debuff or I kill a zen to relieve the pressure from my tank

[@bobothebob4716]

The problem I'm seeing with rank is if I ever solo queue I either get thrown in with people who are smurfing out like sym or something, or I'm getting tossed into a 5solo vs 5 premade match. After about 40 games of this i decided that my decision to quit in season 8 was valid. Guess I'll never climb from M2 to GM. I'm ok with it at this point, but I hoped for a better ranked system.

[@callmeaubie]

Absolutely love the in person podcast! Lovely guests, amazing host, can't wait for more!

[@scotthood8372]

Jay is the most bronze sounding masters player ive ever heard when he talks about support.

[@Troy-gk8pr]

As a support main I basically stopped healing after patch 9.

[@kalokairinos]

He has the typical dps player mentality! All aim no brain and he does not deny it :P

[@Youknowmikekhan]

I was just thinking earlier group up should be coming out soon I’m hype

[@hondsdollekat]

I like the special edition but it feels like it's much harder to disagree with someone if they're right next to you.

[@TheRitva26]

there is counterplay to that bap window, ult tracking. if u know bap is gonna have window then maybe don't get into a position u can't get to cover from once he uses it

[@myyoutubecommentschannel8784]

Honestly surprised at how bad Jay3's takes on support are. It's not even a valid opinion, he's just wrong.

[@micdraypr1855]

An Overwatch MEKA squad prequel game with accompanying anime series would cook so hard

[@patrickmcdaniel5756]

Had your video primed to start but still had comments up from a trailer i just watched. Top comment: yeah lets cast actors 20 years older then the characters they're supposed to play. That with the thumbnail made me laugh before i realized the mixup.

[@M.O.A.N.]

love me some classic market gardening

[@kevinatenine9797]

Tanks can't complain about having all the weight on their shoulders if they also want to be the raid boss. The old saying goes "with great power comes great responsibility."

[@ieToastie]

I’m a tank player, and I don’t want to have all the weight on my shoulders nor do I want to be a raid boss. I want my second tank back.

[@domothebro2435]

​@@ieToastietrueeeee

[@johnseidle655]

Move the pillow y’all need some space on that couch lmao

[@robertgrossman6822]

Live group up is hyyype🔥🔥

[@benjaminkimberling8801]

As a console player thats been from plat to GM since OWs original launch, I gotta say unfortunately its pretty toxic. While I have no comparison to PC, people will respond to anything and take it personally and throw. I can’t remember the last time I’ve been in voice chat and someones given a genuine callout that isn’t asking someone else to switch. And when they do it more seems like there’s a 50/50 chance they either ignore it or start throwing even if the person asking did so in a friendly manner.

[@Doople]

Same experience here. Made top 500 a couple times for the cool icon and spray. Once more for OW2 then stopped. Playing with those people just wasn't fun even if they played well because of how toxic it was. Throwing but also ximming, accusing people of ximming (even if they xim themselves), racism, sexism, petty grudges and generally toxic. Something came up every 1 in 3 matches at least Probably the worst community of top players I've played with. I don't even want to give them games to play so I just don't play comp past getting gm with a friend or whatever.

[@Lord_Nikon33]

Yeah I agree console is rough I also think ranking in comp on console is shit. Ximing is rampant. I've seen so many diamond-masters players that have had multiple negitive win rate seasons but never get lower than diamond. I've never once had a negitive win rate in comp and I've never made it past Platt 1 ever.

[@julienc375]

1:20:30 what tweet are they referring to?

[@iiMonix]

That couch is too small XD

[@gidkid100]

Svb is forgetting that the changes to Illari also affect how often you can reposition your pylon or break it to keep it from getting destroyed.

[@thesquirtlesquad8446]

1:39:00 Dva has the short where she is repairing her mech while in a cast, and she kind of talks about how she feels about the fight.

[@slendy2579]

Tbf her fight wasn’t against people

[@20ecupirate13]

I would love a screen I can watch during queue times that gives me gameplay tips. These tips can come from high ranked ladder players. That’d be really cool

[@gabelogan4006]

Best Group up podcast ever! I dreamt of in person Podcast for so long and Voila! thx SVB, hope you could do this more often.

[@Youknowmikekhan]

Omg 15:46 jays face to bogur strays is hilarious he looks so empty and depressed

[@vixantenna]

I'm here for this

[@BenDover-ku5px]

Jay looks so different without his camera angle. Like a blonde Mark Zuckerberg.

[@DriplessShrimp]

Dunno Zuckerberg looks like a translucent alien.

[@mycelia_ow]

He's a lot bigger than I thought

[@Libreom]

true on stream he looks like a jersey bro that parties every weekend

[@RandomGuyInTheComments]

It's funny that in some of this podcasts they literally debate if this game should be more like paladins, a time ago they debate if everyone should have the support passive and now they are saying that the debuff of the dps passive should be visual.

[@KiraMahMan]

Overwatch is really slowly becoming paladins with less play style customisation and with the ability to swap midgame. I don't know how to feel about this

[@Doople]

Some I think is just adhering to what should or is genre standard for the type of game Paladins and OW are. It just took OW a bit long to figure it out since it launch in awkward period for the genre and support for the game lagged behind

[@erikrulez17]

=O.. i'm gonna have to make some popcorn to watch this.

[@digdoug5125]

I think Roadhogs identity as a DPS Hybrid whose only offensive utility is CC just makes him obnoxious no matter how we buff him

[@davidnewhart2533]

Roadhog's CC is not a problem.

[@nielsholmlassen8275]

Tanks have a lot of control over who wins the game but the way the game gives tactile feedback doesn't work for how tank should be played so it feels really bad for many players

[@masterchiefyoumind]

Svb and the group up podcast travelled to Colosseo let's go they just has to beat the five stack now

[@harrisonfelice8160]

Where do you get that kiriko beenie from the k pop collab?!?! Ive been wanting one

[@ecclecticsayonce5131]

Not a good time to be a mid level tank player…

[@rodo2220]

Season 9 debate without Samito?!

[@sean3589]

good

[@mumble1836]

thank god

[@rogue4340]

​@@sean3589😂

[@rodo2220]

@@sean3589 nah I need the chaos

[@Daveyjonesvi]

Samito is insufferable

[@sarunir1]

With the DPS passive it's almost like there's a 'main DPS' and an 'off DPS' like there used to be with tank or support. Hanzo would be an 'off DPS'.

[@BradStrat]

1:44:13 and I quote “Microsoft isn’t the company to give creative freedom without taking away freedom and passion for example they turned Minecraft into a monetization platform for creators but took away the joy of being able to use things like maps, mods, or skins without in game currency. The community doesn’t exist. The money does.” Im scared this will happen to overwatch in a different way. Microsoft wants money just as much as Bobby does and with things like Halo Infinite and Starfield it only makes it more obvious.

[@sarunir1]

I love this new format!

[@LeadLeft]

DPS role passive: Upon dealing (x) amount of damage, apply the Bleeding effect. The Bleeding effect deals (x) amount of damage over (x) amount of time, and reduces healing received by the target by (x). GG

[@astro_m3ta]

WHAT IF, when the healing debuff is applied the hero’s health bar is outlined by a purple color bar. (Sort of like zenyatta discord color theme)

[@VenereJames]

I think overwatch’s art and characters brought so much attention to the game that it would be so so good for them to produce more lore content, and i don’t mean PvE (rip) even though it’s still an option. The animations are what people first think of (at least in the better days of ow) when they think of this game. I sometimes rewatch kiriko’s short in-game cause 1. It’s right there so why not and 2. I can watch it and immediately queue up and live the fantasy, that’s what it’s all about!! Still confused as to why the other cinematics aren’t viewable in game? They ALREADY made those so why not?

[@VenereJames]

Also thanks fareeha for saying the arcane release date, i completely missed the announcement

[@b23beatz]

2:03:22 is she taking about pre patch or current because hanzo had the smallest projectile size prior to this patch they showed a chart showing every hero pre patch projectile size

[@whaloob]

Widow was pinpoint while hanzo had some size to his projectile, 0.1m (yes it was misinformation that it was this massive arrow). Beginning of S9, Widow got bumped to 0.08m and Hanzo to 0.2m. Now they’re 0.05m and 0.175m respectively.

[@alexbiekert6049]

“No there’s no counter play” “Right.”

[@vohvo2306]

this was easily the most entertaining podcast ive ever watched, great job man!

[@kingtswasey]

The entire season 10 budget going towards the cgi is crazy

[@xSolraccarloSx]

Yooo' this awesome! I will listen to this while I play comp now

[@purplewine7362]

that's because at it's height overwatch was much more ingrained into the pop culture than any hero shooter is. fareeha talks about the sym tag on tumblr having a million followers, but most of them are who followed it in 2016-2017. but that's not the case anymore. compare the views on the latest overwatch hero trailer vs valorant. mauga trailer - 2.7M VS iso trailer 4.5M valorant act 8 trailer - 9.2M vs overwatch season 9 - 929K.

[@MarineMike]

if they just made rein charge actually work instead of bumping enemies up into the sky he would climb at least one tier

[@RyanRynoldsTwin]

Hero bans, take the healing passive away from dmg and add minor lifesteal, maybe season 10 Reinhardt kit upgrade ??(new ability)

[@TheTran5cend]

I just want to say. I love the group up podcasts, and I watch most of them. I love the energy of this one in person. This was a great episode. Love the content svb. I'm still a gold player, but they still help me a lot, and they're entertaining. Thanks for the work you do on your content.

[@pristineo]

you could onetrick winston before they changed his rightclick delay change, he had burst and agency more available playstyles

[@ikhalid1418]

while we're on the subject of change, you shouldn't also change stuff for the sake of changing them. if a character is in a good spot, leave them.

[@krtranslator6701]

I feel that mercy needs a qol change of her damage boost showing up as damage stat in the tab 29:22

[@DABOMB2371]

Bogur casually diffusing every one of jay’s support takes in the beginning was too funny

[@NoNameNinjaa]

rein plays well when you play "cinematic rein"

[@zenpvnk]

They need to bring back Group Finder. OW just feels like you're playing with and against bots.