THE LOST PRIMARCHS: [REDACTED] | Warhammer 40k Lore

[@Adeptusridiculous]

WHAT DO YOU MEAN YOU LOST THE EPISODE? GO FIND IT!

[@Narurulla123]

This was oddly fitting turn in the events

[@bocholotthethird3159]

Being self aware will not silence my stand against being interupted mid premier OR THE CRIMSON FISTS SLANDER

[@High-LordHarza]

Did ya fix the audio issues, or was it on my end?

[@allhardtno3138]

Please god make the thumbnail a poster I'll buy it so quickly

[@lorenzogoglee1320]

if it was on purpose, great job. if not, Big E sence of humor is unparalleled

[@FleshCastle]

Malcador really tried to silence this episode

[@curiousinquisitor59]

Speaking of silencing, do they discuss the Lex specifies that the Primarchs ASKED to forget why the two Primarchs were forgotten? Because its a heck of a thing to forget given that Dorn gets trauma when Malc makes him momentarily remember.

[@luisalfonso7429]

Malcador returning to the 40k millenium just to make sure that no one knows about the lost primarchs is now in my head canon.

[@classyserpent8778]

Suck it old man! Can't stop us

[@jonathanmanard7797]

The future is now old Mal

[@stoops187]

Malcador is a strong independent black woman that don’t need no man

[@zacharydavis8197]

I think the Horus, Khan and Alpharius are a bit of a lore joke. The pirmarchs that are worried about the forgotten primarchs are the one that is forgotten by a vast majority of Imperium by law, the one that is always forgotten by fans, and the one who's job is to be forgotten.

[@jackbelmont4389]

That's an interesting take

[@thundercrash4775]

I look at it as: The one whose loyalty was turned, The one whose loyalty was deliberately uncertain, And the one whose loyalty was never certain.

[@michaelsoria807]

TBF Khan and Alpharius would have a blast about this. Those two wouldn't like to be known by their enemies for various reasons. A common ground would be competency. They revel in being deliberately obscure. Forget about new models in 40k. Let them be in 30k for that true "lost and forgotten" units and MOs.

[@Armageddon2400]

Bricky mentioning the Blue Collar workers liking the long episodes is so on the money, I’m a machinist and listening to these episodes has been a great way to pass the time at work, why not just do one or two for us and throw out an 8-10 hour episode? 😅

[@Lomhow]

Don't worry, we got "A Border Prince" doing full book reads 🙏 Maybe we should have Adeptus Ridiculous narrate some books 🤣🤣

[@Vyelikan]

Im a concrete truck driver and these long episodes really help get through the early parts of the day

[@Sir_Bucket]

I wish I could do that, but unfortunatly as a researcher I can't redact scientific reports while listening to sentences like "Cawl starts furiously shit-posting"

[@xXxCh0n1cxXx]

I have a 1.t to 2 hour commute to work and this long episode was great and I would totally be down for longer. Back when I was in the military doing 24 hour watches I would have loved such long form content!

[@pepegon-zals7606]

I work in pest control and long truck rides are always better with some Ad Ric

[@smilingkira2632]

We have a Leman Russ tank and a Rogal Dorn Tank. Surely one of the lost primarch is named Baneblade.

[@MixerTheNovir]

Malcador tank wouldn't allow it

[@thegentleduck4277]

The lost Primarks, Rhino and Baneblade Rhino was an expert at logistics, specifically transport and mobilization of resources. That is why his namesake tank is a reliable troop carrier, as well as the premier method of moving across the battlefield no matter how rugged. Baneblade was an expert combatant, but unlike his brothers that preferred melee,he was truly unmovable. While Perturabo can claim to be a walking tank, and Mortarion could endure injuries that would cripple even the rest of his brothers, Baneblade was simply unflinching. No weapon could harm him, and when he retaliated it was a single, crushing blow. His namesake tank therefore is an armored behemoth, able to compete with knights in terms of defense and firepower. I dunno, works for me😂

[@coffeelemon6496]

Arken Land was a Primarch all along!

[@nathanabel8169]

Nah he's just Bane. That is his blade.

[@giantnanomachine]

I'm goijng to ruin the joke by interpreting it as meant seriously and pointing out that the Baneblade predates even the Terran unification wars. It's an age of darkness design, a light scout tank.

[@andrewironwelder2419]

1:17:59 My new head canon is that the 2nd Primarch was the Xenos lover, and the one who provided most of the Imperiums initial knowledge of the Xenos cultures. The 11th Primarch on the other hand is secretly the best of his creations, and somehow proved the Emperor to be fallible. That was something that he could not allow or tolerate. They were locked away deep in the confines of the Imperial Palace for future study, and possible recreation. When you add both of these backgrounds together, you see the very foundational historical events that laid the groundwork for the Horus Heresy.

[@isaachaahr8691]

I feel like it definitely was one of the early seeds that made the primarchs question their role after the crusade.

[@TLim-q4s]

We know what happened to the 11th (yellow and red colours)... you were all just mindwiped by Malcador. Good thing he's not here to stop me now from speaking his name... Malibron. It is the 77th year of the Great Crusade, the Assault on Gedren Prime... the flagship of the 11th, and with it, thousands of sons were destroyed by the Gedrenites and a long-lost offshoot of the Martian Mechanicum who fought in favour of the Fief Lords of Gedren. Malibron could not be consoled. He wept tears of rage and anger for his lost progeny, a grievous wound to his Legion from which they might never recover. Ignoring the sympathy and messages of support from his brothers Leman, Corvus, and the Khan, he immediately made his way to one of his ships and the remains of his fleet... their destination, Gedren VI. As the ships entered orbit, the Imperial Fleet looked on in disbelief, unable to act as the 11th Legion unleashed its wrath upon the now-surrendered and unsuspecting populace. Its payload: the most dreaded of the Imperium's weaponry... the Exterminatus. Malibron virus-bombed the world and, in order to replenish his Legion, tried to steal the forbidden cloning tech the Gedrenites possessed. Everything went wrong and ended in Marines from the Legions present fighting against each other. When the dust had settled, Corvus was responsible for the disposal of the cloning tech (nice segue into the later background of the Raven Guard), and as for Malibron, Primarch of the 11th Legion... he was sent to the Emperor in chains. There, he would face his father, who would dispense his judgment as he saw fit, for his son had committed an atrocity of the highest degree. He is probably imprisoned in the dark cell beneath the Imperial Palace, the cell with the name Subject XI.

[@ColdNorth0628]

​@TLim-q4s got a source on that or are you just typing up a yap thesis?

[@Blade_351]

Finally we're talking about Gork and Mork, THE LOST PRIMARCHS !

[@gamejawa]

More like Prim-ORKS, amirite

[@vxicepickxv]

This guy gets it

[@DarthFetid]

ohhh yeahhhh

[@LexYeen]

I subscribe to this headcanon now.

[@DABOSSEMPRAH]

Yeh... i was there...

[@Lexandritte]

I'm with Kirioth on his theory behind the expungement - the two lost Primarchs were going against the number one value that Emperor held - "Humanity first". It lines up with them having being expunged and Chaos traitors haven't - Chaos is a big scary thing you can point to and go "don't do that", whilst the idea of tolerance towards xenos actually working is an anathema to the very structure of Imperium.

[@Birdmanesp92]

I'm with this logic. The Heresy wasn't the first enemy of the Emperor. One of the lost primarchs definitely turned heel and allied with some horrible Xenos.

[@user-ez9ng2rw9c]

Eh, idk. The emperor wasn't above working with xenos himself. His problem was moreso that he believed in a lack of a sustainable alliance with them. If two primarchs were xeno tolerant I feel like he'd give them more leeway than just.... Turning to chaos. It'd have to be more fundamental and tragic than that, I feel. Something which left a pretty bad taste in everyone's mouth and most importantly, was exceedingly horrifying in a visceral way. Iirc G-man and Dorn prefer to have their memories removed of them because it was that off putting.

[@hershelgreene5009]

@@Birdmanesp92not even horrible or evil even, it could have just been a powerful force of xenos that directly threatened the very foundational ideas of the imperium of man by simply existing. More so than even the idea that humanity and xenos could co-exist, since we have multiple races documented during the great crusade that did just that.

[@hershelgreene5009]

@@user-ez9ng2rw9cI think it had to be an idea more than an action. An idea so dangerous to the foundational beliefs of the imperium that it had to be erased

[@MatthewCSnow]

Ah the lost episode

[@dean_l33]

Really put in a lot of effort for that immersion

[@Howler452]

Couple things: I like when the episodes are on the longer side, especially on the fantasy episodes. In regards to theories, I really like Kirioth's theory, because it immediately made me think of the Emperor's quote from The Last Church: "The difference is that I know I am right." And it feels very in character for the Emperor to use the same justification to destroy two of his sons that dared to suggest a different vision from what the Emperor wanted.

[@remulean]

I genuienly thought losing the episode was intentional, making a sort of "you had to be there urban myth about a lost episode about the lost primarchs!😂

[@Adeptusridiculous]

haha yes totally its not that we totally screwed up the audio and havent noticed it was all part of the brilliant meta plan yes

[@jonathanmanard7797]

​@Adeptusridiculous yes yes, not our fault. Other skaven did it

[@mushu8374]

Hydra Dominatus, Brothers.​@@Adeptusridiculous

[@Notbatman374]

​@@Adeptusridiculousaplhariussayswhat

[@the_victorious_1]

Hydra Dominatus brothers and sisters.

[@HugeFilmFan]

I like to think one of the Primarchs just made a really good argument against the Emperor and he couldn’t fault the logic.

[@CodexQuinn]

This is my new favorite headcanon. The mental image of the emperor sitting there stumped, before going "Counterpoint, DELETE"

[@sirlenemodesto2665]

Two and Eleven: Nice argument Emperor, why don't you back it up with a source! Emps: My source is that I made it the fuck up! Sick'em Russ!

[@Vegathebard]

I always loved Rick Priestley's, the creator of Warhammer's, unofficial interpretation: it wasn't that they turned to Chaos, but that they chose a life of peace and pacifism, which in a galaxy of perpetual war, was enough to have them erased from history.

[@Jack-uy7ie]

[Redacted]: "But Father, if only you saw the majestic cabbages I was growing back home, you too would give up the pursuit of worldly power." Big E: "... Exterminatus."

[@kiritotheabridgedgod4178]

​@@Jack-uy7ieThis, but with lemons, the Primarch going on a three hour autistic rant about how lemons came to be, Big E erasing him, then turning around and giving us the "Big E Lemons" meme

[@professormohawk1]

The twist is that the 11 is in tera, asleep and the 2nd is on an agri world being isolated from all the war. This is what they requested. Space wolves were sent it, they killed until they surrendered, Malocar was pissed and wanted them killed but the emperor grated their request, sent their astartes away and wiped them from records and that's why the primarchs remember them. They did nothing wrong

[@EtherealDoomed]

​@@professormohawk1Oh, I adore this

[@Lomhow]

DAMN 😵‍💫

[@jackmilitti7435]

I have so much more appreciation for the work Shy does after listening to both uploads and hearing how chaotic it gets

[@oranbluethorn3956]

I was mid watch when this got taken down. The imperium attempted to censor this episode, but it still stands! Glory to chaos!

[@andydandy8525]

i had just gotten past the intro advert! i was dying!

[@AvaReed100]

Same here :D I first thought something went wrong

[@XeranDereth]

My head cannon for the lost primarchs leans into both the malal theory and the xeno theory. The second Primarch grew up on a world that was medieval, but lacked the horrors of the other medieval primarch worlds. The only threat was an Eldar exodite conclave, as this was a maiden world, and this primarch decided that rather than war, tried diplomacy. This newfound peace, as tenable as peace can be between eldar and humans, allowed the primarch to speak more freely with them, and gain a better understanding of the immaterium than any of his brothers would have. When the emperor arrived he decided to go scorched earth killing all on the planet aside from the primarch to prevent xeno taint from spreading. The primarch then had to bend the knee or die, but decided that he would rebel at a later, more opportune time. The eleventh primarch was sympathetic to his brothers thoughts, and the two rebelled, in the hopes of establishing an imperium that could better combat chaos rather than pretend it didn't exist, and maintain a more xeno friendly outlook. The primarch that instigated was killed, and the one who just went along was imprisoned. However the second primarch, Malal, became a warp entity at his death, much like a Daemon Prince, but non-chaos aligned, and decided after the internment of the emperor to wage a silent war against chaos, the greatest threat, using what was left of his legion, as well as non-chaos aligned warp entities. This could explain what was so bad they were erased, they rebelled against the emperor in a way that went against Big E's idea of no xenos, and no spiritualism. More over, with it not being as messy looking as chaos, it would have been a far more attractive alternative to Big E than chaos, possibly leading to more traitors, hence the mind wipe and false history.

[@cesly87]

Wouldn’t it be badass if the Tau where around during this time and the Lost Primarchs became the Tau’s Primarchs, leading a fledgling race.

[@MrKing-771]

​@@cesly87There is nothing badass about the Tau

[@khylerbane4523]

My headcanon for the Lost Primarchs is one was from a society that has leftover tech from the Dark Age of Technology and has an alliance with Eldar Exodites who in a unbelievable act of selflessness and self reflection realized they were at fault and heed to ally with the lesser species to survive. Creating a civilization with better stuff than even Mars itself with nanotechnology, wraithbone Adamantium hybrid constructs, mechs that rival the Tau and Eldar, even the Dune shields, and much more. This lead to not only a disagreement with the imperium, but the subjugation and near eradication of one’s home. This and the lack of hostile encounters with xenos lead him to be enthralled by the Rangdan. The other lived on a desert death world that turned out to also be a Tomb world or something like that with ancient alien technology left buried deep under the planets surface. And used the ancient Technology buried in the sand to become a advanced civilization with the Primarch having dreams of his own interstellar empire to rule over. But due to messing with technology they knew nothing about accidentally caused the problem equivalent of the BFG 10,000 shooting Mars in Doom Eternal, leading to the extinction of his home. He only joined Emps despite refusing to be subservient to another because he had nothing left and nowhere to go. In his depression and grief coupled with his self centered mentality, he fell and ended up on the chopping block.

[@Alzir-n9m]

​@@MrKing-771*Farsight, O'kai, and torchstar* ARE YOU SURE ABOUT THAT

[@raphsere]

"But Father, I do not want to fight; I want to make reaction videos!" "And *I* want to start a podcast on Spotify!" And now it all makes sense.

[@zachhawn8720]

Honestly that would fit Sanguinius and fulgrim as well, or Alpharius and Omegon

[@Notbatman374]

​@zachhawn8720 I'd totally listen to an alpharius and omegon podcast.

[@Sercotani]

​@@Notbatman374 _sick podcast intro plays, ends_ "I am Alpharius" "I am Alpharius" "..." "..." _ad roll_

[@John-qv5ux]

​@@Sercotani I've been Alpharius, and I've been Alpharius. Have a good one, and Hydra Dominatus.

[@fj_cruising]

I'm literally a truck driver in qld Australia. Every Wednesday morning I listen to the new poor hammer episode. And the same come Thursday morning, I listen to ad ric. Not missed an episode since you guys started the channel! It's been so cool to see dk in the early days getting his brain overloaded with 40k stuff. To now him having a pretty good ground knowledge of the universe. All from the comfort of my truck seat.

[@Lomhow]

I salute you sir 🫡 that is true dedication

[@fj_cruising]

@@Lomhow thank you commissar 😂 it's all for the emperor

[@BigBen-jj2mq]

Trazyn definetly stole the 2nd primarch. He is chillin in the collection.

[@Davernn]

Set him up in stasis tea time with Clonegrim

[@thechevyferrari9559]

Hahahaha, the ultimate collectors item. Not a facsimile or replica, a LEGIT primarch.

[@khylerbane4523]

It’s one of my favorite headcanons that at the moments of (one of) their deaths, just before they died completely, Trazyn snatched them up hand keeps them in his museum. But they must never leave stasis because the exact second the stasis field goes down said Primarch will die from their wounds and injuries.

[@XSilver_WaterX]

Wild case, one of them is just chillin' as Trayzn likes them too much out into stasis plus he did the one thing all the other races wouldn't commit with: co-existence. His D-Eldar wife with his 4th child can support THAT!

[@Beano_Mate]

Honourable mention for the custodes that were with malcador and were willing to go head to head with 3 primarchs

[@tonycalderon1408]

In my head at least one of the lost primarchs denied the imperial truth and sided with xenos. Not just a temporary alliance which we do see every once in a while, but a full on opposition to the idea that xenos don’t belong in humanity’s galaxy. Maybe they saw big e leading genocides against xenos for just existing and didn’t want to follow a leader that bloodthirsty.

[@aidan-h3p]

I love the idea of a Primarch gestation pod ramming into a Craftworld, and the resulting Eldar-aligned Primarch having to be killed for their loyalty to their people and their extensive warp education threatening the secrecy of chaos.

[@DillsyYourDaddy67]

I always imagined one was very much aware of the chaos gods and grew up on a world that worshipped them directly The didn’t exactly turn of the imperial truth but they 100% knew it was BS which worried E

[@Gunzerkingidiot]

Like Nameless King from Dark souls 3?

[@eg0zb]

But then i dont think it would make sense with the other primarcs still considering them brothers despite their transgression

[@dalekrenegade2596]

​@@aidan-h3p You know what, since such a hypothetical Eldar raised Primarch could end up being a very powerful psyker and could've led to a close connection with the Emperor and Malcador. However in the end their loyalty ultimately stayed with the Eldar and the possibility of them reveling the existence of Chaos was too dangerous in the Emperor's eyes.

[@Wodferd]

Little bit of additional important context for the 'Malcador force choking Horus' part is that prior to that part of their exchange, Horus is taunting Malcador by slyly, indirectly mentioning them, and Malcador threatens him with the fact that all the Primarchs swore to their father to never speak of them again So he IS personally angry at Horus for pushing his luck and potentially speaking their names, but he's also absolutely livid at the gall of Horus, to specifically do it AFTER he reminds him that they swore on their loyalty to the Emperor to never speak their names again.

[@nicholasvaultonburg9152]

The meta meta narrative of the gang losing the episode not wanting us to find out about GW not wanting the gang to find out about the Imperium not wanting its people to find out about two lost dudes.

[@stryke-jn3kv]

My theory for one of them was not xenos sympathising but xenos infection. Like a xenos slug got in to a primarch's skull and turned him all about. The idea that a primarch could be so compromised would be anathema to the vision of the Emperor but would also leave a reasonable number of his marines salvagable enough to be brought into the other legions after being mindwiped.

[@EtherealDoomed]

Ooooh, I like that a lot.

[@GambeTama]

The inquisition trying to scrub this episode from the archives like "Draco," is nothing compared to the determination of an Alpha Legion serf. Well done on the recovery, Shy o-b

[@travisastone]

There's a scene in the 5th HH book Fulgrim where some Iron Hands come across a really old ship (like dark age of tech old) that refuses to acknowledge the emperor and parley with them and once they make their way on board (after a bit of spoilers) they find that the ship has xenos crew members so they basically just kill the whole crew as they are "tainted". So that one theory could have some weight to it.

[@aidanthornton173]

What if one of the lost primarchs was a Blank? Imagine a Primarch like Magnus but with Blank abilities instead. Blank powers so potent, that even mentioning their name causes fits of anger?

[@casanovafunkenstein5090]

I mean, there's the possibility of it being more than enraging for a psyker. It could have been actively dangerous and potentially lethal. Imagine a blank so awesome in power that their name is enough to kill the psychically attuned and completely shut down the influence of the warp. I feel like the most obvious reason why that primarch would have been redacted from the record is that it would be so absurdly impractical to have a legion who can't enter the warp and would give half of the people who fight alongside them a brain bleed. Imagine if they set off for earth after being located but were forced to travel through regular space time, so they still haven't arrived at the current day in the time line.

[@Jack-uy7ie]

@@casanovafunkenstein5090 I think they wouldn't be forced to travel through regular space time. For they were sent through the warp by Erda. Being a Blank is a good in lore reason for Chaos leaving you the fuck alone. Most Blanks who arent brutally killed as children are taken prisoner and used by the Inquisition as living shields against Psykers.

[@sirgaz8699]

The Primarch all seem to have an aspect of the Emperor and the Emperor isn't a blank. Besides Emps and Dorn have a calming effect on the warp.

[@petriew2018]

i mean, you could go much further than that. A Blank meaning the Emperor and/or Malcador couldn't actually control them. Thus they didn't share the Emperor's black and white view of the galaxy. After a century of what feels like increasingly pointless bloodshed for a future they ultimately don't believe in pushes them to the breaking point, and there's an a rebellion. Not the usual chaos-driven shenanigans, which is bad but also kind of proves the Emperor right in a way, but one of people seeking real, actually freedom to choose their own destiny. That would be a massive existential threat to everything the Emperor is trying to build, completely undermining his ultimate goal of unifying humanity and turning their latent psychic ability against chaos for good. that could very well be knowledge even more dangerous than that of actual chaos, the idea that there's, you know, an option c?

[@AzraelMight]

Better idea What if he Was half C’Tan

[@RdeZapato]

Leman Russ: Well I just came back from killing the eleventh primarch. Malcador: Eleven? You had to kill the second one. Leman: No in this patchemnt you gave me clearly says "Kill Legion 11's primarch" Malcador: It says "Legion II" idiot! Is a two in roman numerals!! Leman:... Malcador:... Leman [sweating profusely]: Oh its's true silly me! It was a joke really! by the way I have to go right away to kill the second primarch, byeeeee Leman leaves running like a lunatic Malcador:.... we have to keep the secret that we made primarchs so dumb...

[@gabrieldarkwind5866]

That is my cannon now, thank you.

[@PhantomGato-v-]

I like to envision the inverse being true because Leman being able to read Roman numerals but not regular numbers is just funnier for me.

[@khylerbane4523]

This radiates TTS energy and I am here for it.

[@John-qv5ux]

Smartest Space Wolf: (I HATE THE SPACE WOLVES, THEY CAN'T EVEN WRITE!!!)

[@Historynerd0313]

Malcador saw this episode from the grave and decided to purge it from existence

[@0zb4lack]

Technically, Malcador is somewhere the Earth, I mean Terra, at the current moment (XXI century) so he most certainly took video down for daring to speak about future forbidden events.

[@IronFatherJohn]

There was a fan event hosted by Laurie Goulding and McNeil in 2009. They wrote up a whole backstory for it. The 11th Primarch was in the story and he was named Malibron. And in The Last Council, written by Laurie, Horus said "Mal-" before he got choked out.

[@derpstick5467]

That’s a nice Easter egg.

[@muthpeterpatrik]

My headcanon is that the second primarch was deleted for being peacful. He represents the wisdom and honor of the emperor. The thing was that after reaching some sort of primarch enlightement, he not only refused to fight alongside with his legion, but he was so persuasive, that other primarch started to listen to him. And becouse he was right and emps couldn't refute his arguments, he was killed, his followers mindwiped and went to the ultramarines.

[@John-qv5ux]

That's so horrible that I can fully believe that Big E would do that. For such an 'enlightened being' he sure sucks at making decisions.

[@fluffyking94]

Had a thought. Now I might be way off base here, but your mention of the 5th god got me thinking. What if the lost legions didn't actually do anything wrong, but acknowledgement of them risks unleashing something. What if the emperor's plan to kill off the chaos gods actually had some merit. What if, with the help of the lost legions, big E actually killed off one of the chaos gods. But in the process, the legions had to be killed off, as they were the last remaining people who knew of the god's existence. So their elimination from history isn't because they did something wrong, but actually incredibly tragic, because they did something great (truly killing off a chaos god) but any acknowledgement of their actions would risk bringing the god back through acknowledging its existence. Just a thought, but it be kinda coo if they actually were really cool guys, and not just absolute monsters so evil that the world refuses to remember them.

[@jacobhoffman5462]

I opened this in a new tab when it was live. When I later went to watch it the video appeared to be private and I thought it would be a joke where they deny the existence of this stream

[@Lomhow]

🤣🤣🤣

[@Thatonelurkingboi]

According to Fulgrim did state the 2nd Primarch was very quiet and kept to himself.

[@wadehansen3085]

Crazy timing was a little late to the premiere and the episode went down the second they mention the 5th chaos god

[@hinumayyyy]

Oh fuckkk It's getting spookier

[@johncherrybone4835]

Yea I was at that point too when it shut down I thought it was joke

[@Android_Drew]

I’m reminded of a passage about one of the lost primarchs from the imperial records “The Emperor soon found his [REDACTED] on [DATA EXPUNGED] where first contact was marked by [REMOVED ON THE AUTHORITY OF THE ORDO HERETICUS] special abilities included [MALCADOR SAYS NO] before being [HYDRA DOMINATUS LMAO].” Truly inspiring stuff

[@Zelgrimm]

What if..... 11 followed Big E's ideals, and was at odds with 2 who was raised by xenos and is verily lenient with them preferring to understand other xenos. - 11 and 2 butt heads until the frustrations spill over into a furious duel that results in 2's accidental death. - 11 would either be regretful or prideful of his actions and fully destroy 2's body into nothingness, maybe dumping the body into a star. - 2's death and disposal at the hands of 11 could be seen as an unauthorized execution or a devastating military scandal that screws with Big E's plans, forcing him to wipe records of the lost primarchs and their actions. - 11 would be not be executed but instead be imprisoned as "Subject 11" as he might still have some use to the Imperium. - Meanwhile, 2 would have deceived everyone by concocting a dead body-double due to some warp-ability he had become proficient in. He would go about and live his own ideal of alien coexistence by establishing an empire from the ground up with a primitive xenos race. - 2 would go on a 5000 year hunt for STC's and other technologies, develop them, and slowly introduce them to the primitive xenos according to how they grow as a society, like Men In Black. - So as not to attract any more unwanted Imperium attention, 2 would build up this multi-species empire from the shadows with subtle persuasion and warp-altering perception, using puppet leaders that spread the word of the.....greater good.

[@khylerbane4523]

My headcanon for the Lost Primarchs is one was from a society that has leftover tech from the Dark Age of Technology and has an alliance with Eldar Exodites who in a unbelievable act of selflessness and self reflection realized they were at fault and heed to ally with the lesser species to survive. Creating a civilization with better stuff than even Mars itself with nanotechnology, wraithbone Adamantium hybrid constructs, mechs that rival the Tau and Eldar, even the Dune shields, and much more. This lead to not only a disagreement with the imperium, but the subjugation and near eradication of one’s home. This and the lack of hostile encounters with xenos lead him to be enthralled by the Rangdan. The other lived on a desert death world that turned out to also be a Tomb world or something like that with ancient alien technology left buried deep under the planets surface. And used the ancient Technology buried in the sand to become a advanced civilization with the Primarch having dreams of his own interstellar empire to rule over. But due to messing with technology they knew nothing about accidentally caused the problem equivalent of the BFG 10,000 shooting Mars in Doom Eternal, leading to the extinction of his home. He only joined Emps despite refusing to be subservient to another because he had nothing left and nowhere to go. In his depression and grief coupled with his self centered mentality, he fell and ended up on the chopping block.

[@josefstylin7859]

I always liked the Idea that at least one of the lost found some weird nonsense out in the Ghoul Stars and that's what got him done in.

[@thatvillainjay]

S tier thumbnail...it's like 3 memes layered on one another

[@Scowleasy]

I love how the demon primarchs still haven’t talked about them at all. Even the most evil people in the galaxy just avoid the topic, even after 10k years

[@sirgaz8699]

. . . do you think Fulgrim would ask Fabius Bile to clone the furry/xenos loving lost primarch to be Slaaneshs play thing?

[@Nickname-ef9tv]

45:30 The Imperial guard, at least those on crusade, were likely on average much better equipped and trained than their 40k counterparts. Being on a well-prepared military campaign is different from being drafted to defend your planet no matter how good or bad (usually the latter) your chances are.

[@CaptainWolfie97]

1:17:20 I’m apart of the people who listen to you guys while I’m working (I’m a cleaner and I do a lot of vacuuming) listening to you guys always puts a smile on my face and I always find it funny when you guys say that you went on for to long cause I always want the episodes to be longer lol, ngl 2hr episodes would be nice, even if it was just once a month

[@Hegataro]

Language-wise, there could be something; Traitors are specifically people who were on your side but then turned- what if the lost were never on the empire's side in the first place? Imperials (the astartes and custodes at least) are still allowed to know about the traitors, even though knowledge of them or chaos might turn them traitorous, too. But they're not allowed to even fathom the idea of a "third option". Raised by xenos, raised by man-made AI, or lost in the warp (with their only solace being the number 11, wink wink, their warp form being their only protection). What if the Rangdan Genocide wasn't JUST against the Rangda? What if one of the Primarchs crash landed on one of their (or the Slaught's) worlds and stayed on their side? It is described as one of the Imperium's bloodiest wars pre-Heresy, after all, and having a demigod on their side would probably help. What if what Dorn was talking about in regards to the heresy was that, if the xenos-aligned Primarch were allowed to live, he would've led his own counter-crusade, leading whatever race he had allied himself with, overwhelming the Empire, or at least Terra, itself? Yes, I typed this up before the episode was reuploaded.

[@igncom1]

One of my ideas is a rival competing Imperium, starting peaceful and cooperative which let them all get to know the others, but eventually coming to blows for the total iron fisted authority of the Emperor.

[@rocksteadyska6933]

I'm having a brain blank, what's the significance of '11'?

[@Hegataro]

@@rocksteadyska6933 11 is the sacred number of Malice, the "renegade god" Back in early early fantasy, before even Tzeentch existed, only Khorne and Nurgle existed. GeeDubs wanted to introduce a third, called Malal, and they commissioned some comic book writers/artists to make a story with him. They fucked up the legal side of things, now neither side can use Malal. For 40k, a renegade chapter called the Sons of Malice, who participated in the 13th black crusade, have their own short story where it's revealed that they have to sacrifice 11 of their strongest warriors, 11 being Malice's sacred number, in order to summon Malice, a chaos entity they worship that has basically every aspect of Malal (self-destruction, self-sacrifice, hating chaos, hating order, hating basically everything) Ergo, the fan theory would be that Malice is actually the 11th Primarch. Considering that Corvus Corax's exposure to the warp turned him into a literal shadow, a baby primarch somehow surviving for 10k years would probably turn him into something way worse

[@sirgaz8699]

"what if the lost were never on the empire's side in the first place?" apart from the other Primarchs who want to remember their contributions to the crusade even after the redaction.

[@kiritotheabridgedgod4178]

​@@sirgaz8699Could have been a situation similar to Robot Girly-man. Let's say, for whatever reason, the warp incident chucked them out in neighboring star systems, that trade with eachother. Each Primarch grows up and takes command, they meet and go "Huh, you're a lot like me. Wonder if we're related" and unite into a small empire, taking over their star cluster. Eventually, Big E rocks up and does his whole "Join Me" Schtick, they go "We won't join under you, but we will join with you, as a separate entity." Not wanting to waste the time or resources, Big E relents and agrees. Fast forward to the Rangdan Xenocide, the 2nd and 11th take such severe casualties without much support that they turn around and go, "You know what, this isn't worth it. We have a lot of territory, we have better tech than you, jog on mate." and secede from their alliance. They've still helped the Imperium, they've still met, talked with and strategised with their brothers, but they were never officially part of the Imperium.

[@nickel-bolas951]

I mean, we do know where Valdor is right now, but Dan Abnett won't give us the last book because they have him trapped in the Siege of Terra mines

[@lovebunny2652]

Well but thats over now right? I mean the End and the Death is done, the Heresy is over and Interceptor City which is still to come out i think was his last work. He might still not move to Pandaemonium straight away but he's free from the mines at last, yeah?

[@nickel-bolas951]

@@lovebunny2652 Hopefully, but there's rumblings of a Scouring series after the Siege, and they'll probably tap him for that. It's a little defeatist of me to speculate like this but I remember well the gap of time between Gaunt's Ghosts 12 and 13. I just don't want to get my hopes up, cos as they say, it's the first step on the road to disappointment.

[@shewhothirstss]

​@@nickel-bolas951 i think Abnett was supposed to finish up the Double Eagle books and then release Pandemonium.

[@ngominh259]

A few things: _ “Interesting piece and lot's of interesting and credible theories there! I have no more idea than anyone else what the truth of the matter is, of course. The backstory has certainly evolved and acquired some mass of detail since I first drew up that list of Space Marine Chapters and their Primarchs. I'm not really familiar with a lot of that material either, but it's nice to know that the spirit of the thing has been preserved and even nurtured. I will make just one observation - and it's about the intent of the missing legions - where I think GW have perhaps taken a slightly different tack than I had in mind. Not that this matters of course, and I appreciate that in creating a series of books about the Heresy a lot of things I always intended to be unknowable or semi-mythical had to be addressed directly; something I could never have foreseen when I wrote Rogue Trader. The intent is this: that the removal of records and obliteration of the memory of these Lost Legions was not a punishment but a reward - rather than being purged they were being absolved - and this was based on the assumption they had done something utterly terrible (naturally!) but then done something equally positive to earn redemption. Or think of it as a stain that cannot be erased except by extinction. The Chaos Chapters are unforgiven - out and out bad guys - but the Lost Legions, whatever their deeds, have been forgiven and the stain upon their reputation erased with their memory. At least that was the idea... but times change don't they ;).” -Rick Priestley _ Despite that, the idea that the 2nd & 11th Primarchs did something so heinous that they got completely wiped instead of just being branded traitors is still attractive. It's like the act of writing about them and their details will cause harm. Imagine like an SCP infohazard where you immediately die if you read it. Spooky 😊 _ The Primarch Tarot Theory is insanely interesting. Instead of pairing Primarchs based on their qualities (thus leading to endless debates because someone like Sanguinius can match with more than one Primarch), this theory grafts 20/21 Primarchs and the Emperor to the 22 cards of the Major Arcana. Funny enough, Mad Max (an obvious inspiration for lots of Warhammer stuffs) had its dramaturge - Nick Lathouris - looking at the Major Arcana to decipher Max's journey in Fury Road. A neat coincidence. _ The Rangdan Xenocide is thought to be when the 2nd and/or the 11th Primarch got [REDACTED]. The Rangdans used humans as thralls and they looked like jellyfish. It was the point where the Great Crusade met its largest obstacle. It wasn't until the Heresy that the Imperium had larger casualties. It was not the frequent "oh we lost a few hundred thousand lives, but we came through". More like "this is it fellas". It got so bad that the Dark Angels were not the powerhouse they were prior to it. 12 Titan Legions and millions of troops died. Big E had to intervene himself.

[@42ndguardian]

Subject 11 could be a primarch mind broken by a psychic species or the Enslavers. Basically a big vegetable, knowledge of whose existence in their state runs counter to the entire human supremist Imperial Creed

[@cameroncarter2530]

Just listened to this with my brother. Love the speculation, making us pause and theory craft after every new fact.

[@9xDaysxTillxNothing]

My theory is similar to the Eldritch corruption one at the end, mixed with the kind and caring one. The 11th was corrupted by something from the Ghoul Stars (or one of the other horrific corners of the galaxy), along with a large portion of their Legion, and when the 2nd Legion was tasked with helping to take them out, they said no, I'm done with this, the imperium is evil. And then, to make it more heartbreaking, the 2nd primarch, who (in my head) was the kindest of the primarchs, went to try and save their 11th sibling, was killed by them in the process. Thus completing whatever transformation the 11th was going through, which necessitated the Shadowkeepers to take them under the Imperial Palace. I actually think the Rangdan Xenocide was a cover up, and the billions of deaths and 10s of thousands of lost space marines were due to the immense power of the corrupted 11th legions primarch and marines.

[@matthewstegall7921]

Malcador once had also been touched by Malal. "The old familiar rage" is his ptsd of possession and the rage/power he once weilded, suddenly back enough to fueled Horus's humbling. Malcador and Malal share the closest mindset of malcador and any of the chaos gods.

[@InquisitorKryptman]

My headcannon is Sigmar is the 'lost' 2nd Primarch given the twin tail comet heralding his arrival (gestation pod), and Malice being the 'damned' 11th Primarch with Malice's sacred number being 11 and Horus saying one of the lost Primarchs names was "Mal..al" before being choked by Malcador.

[@joshuasutherland6692]

Came here for the Malal comment. It fits Malal to be a "damned" creation becase he represents Anarchy. This is something that the Imperium couldn't have in it to function as it is, so it makes sense Malcador would feel so particularly vengeful against its (his) existence in the core "pillars" of the Imperium. The three primarchs mourning the statue makes sense because they're somewhat more of "free thinkers" compared to the rest of them, who are likely mourning the loss of a brother who represented the possibility of more libertarian values in a stratified Imperium.

[@appelmoes3433]

I don’t think the sigmar thing is possible things like him possessing the body of Karl Franz don’t seem like the kind of thing a primarch can do

[@matthewmcg321]

1:17:51 as a tradesman, yes PLEASE

[@TitaniumAlloyz]

I deliver amazon packages for a living, I second this

[@thorlind1]

As a self employed cook, Yes please! The longer the better

[@astrodude757]

As electrician riding in his van everyday I say longer episodes too if they can!

[@blur2953]

The lost episode that was lost is lost no longer.

[@TheNaturalnuke]

The term ‘Failed’ to described Primarchs, Sanguinius worries, Malcadors Rage, and possibly one is in the basement of the Palace. I think one killed themself, or otherwise went gibbering mad, I think to Malcador - immortal, driven, calloused - I think that would rankle something fierce, giving up like that. Also it would show the primarch process literally failed in that case, made him too human, too fallible.

[@isaachaahr8691]

I like that. The idea that one of their issues was truly being too human. The dornian heresy has the khan fall to slanneesh because he lacks to stomach for the death toll of galactic war.

[@Vaelkari]

The idea of one falling on their own sword actually works well, 40k draws heavily on Catholicism and one of the greatest sins there is ending self. Strong possibility after losing 80k of their sons to the Rang they came home broken- the 2nd ate one of their own bolt rounds and the 11th went mad and is locked up under the palace. As to why they would be written out of history, for a tool of the Emperor surrender/weakness is unacceptable and can you imagine the PR hit if it came out one of the Emps own sons called it on life as a result of the horrors of the crusade. The souldrinkers thing is feeling what the fallen feel- can you imagine that at primarch levels, on his entire legion.

[@Ifyourereadingthisstop]

Fine I'll go make my own episode, with black jack and hoo-- Oh hey its back!

[@grant0518]

1:17:16 Bricky honestly hit the nail on the head with what he said here with how I feel. I'm a Boiler Operator and I love the longer episodes because I'm already here at work for 12 hours, more time to listen to my favorite podcast is really great.

[@Danubian-SVT]

How do you feel about this hypothesis - After years of fighting they refused to fight anymore... For some reason, they became the worst thing you can be in this Galaxy - a Pacifist

[@aidan-h3p]

A Primarch so genuinely, unapologetically good that big E could not maintain the loyalty of his followers if the truth was made known that he killed him. I love how tragic this is. you have a good brain.

[@odditiescollector4540]

my thoughts on the the lost primarchs are that (at least one of them) was promoting mutations to "improve" their marines effectiveness in doing their tasks much like how fabulous bill did during the crusade but he did it in secret withing the emperors children where as the idea of one of the lost doing similar would draw more attention since its an entire legion and primarch promoting and experimenting with the idea of "improving the emperors perfect soldiers". the other reason to support this with sanguinius being afraid of being culled due to his mutations withing his legion and himself and prior to Big E being put on his chair there is little to no mention of mutants but after hes on they are very common and not all mutations are warp based so it cant be a chaos/ psyker based thing

[@emrepalapi]

Bro while watching the premire video suddenly got "Privated". I tought Emperor redacted it for a second...

[@iainmcdonald9032]

Same

[@klaykid117]

That's so funny that happened to me too. I kept refreshing to see if it would get re-uploaded

[@ShipolasFPS]

As someone who works Night shift, I fully support and appreciate longer episodes. Gives me something to pass the time while mindlessly throwing boxes around.

[@Corack]

2nd legion primarch touched the thermostat. 11th tried to switch to decaff.

[@flyfisher967]

I'm a welder and these podcast episodes always keep my mind entertained when the job slows so thank yall and keep it up

[@kazierlee1409]

I kinda wish they could talk about Icarion, Primarch of Lightning Bearers (A fan made Primarch that is loved by the community) and a joke primarch that I love Nekona, Primarch of Space Maids.

[@the_victorious_1]

I love Nekonya omg, I'm planning to make a Space Maids army when I can get my 3D printer running, they're one of my favourite fan creations!

[@khylerbane4523]

I absolutely loved that home brew lore. My headcanon for the Lost Primarchs is one was from a society that has leftover tech from the Dark Age of Technology and has an alliance with Eldar Exodites who in a unbelievable act of selflessness and self reflection realized they were at fault and heed to ally with the lesser species to survive. Creating a civilization with better stuff than even Mars itself with nanotechnology, wraithbone Adamantium hybrid constructs, mechs that rival the Tau and Eldar, even the Dune shields, and much more. This lead to not only a disagreement with the imperium, but the subjugation and near eradication of one’s home. This and the lack of hostile encounters with xenos lead him to be enthralled by the Rangdan. The other lived on a desert death world that turned out to also be a Tomb world or something like that with ancient alien technology left buried deep under the planets surface. And used the ancient Technology buried in the sand to become a advanced civilization with the Primarch having dreams of his own interstellar empire to rule over. But due to messing with technology they knew nothing about accidentally caused the problem equivalent of the BFG 10,000 shooting Mars in Doom Eternal, leading to the extinction of his home. He only joined Emps despite refusing to be subservient to another because he had nothing left and nowhere to go. In his depression and grief coupled with his self centered mentality, he fell and ended up on the chopping block.

[@SiverFangBlackWing]

I like Shy's one because it ties so many hints together. Also if you remember, this was when there was another secret. Chaos was a secret kept not only from the Imperium but many of the Primarchs themselves during this time.

[@azuth11]

A lot of Primarchs have memories of going through the warp and all the claws of demons trying to get in their birthing pods. I like to imagine the demons actually got ahold of the lost Primarchs, and even though they were discovered by the Emperor and reunited with their legions, the two Primarchs were corrupted from their infancy.

[@CartmanTuttle]

As a delivery driver, I do appreciate these longer episodes, gives me something to listen to while focusing on getting around.

[@r17DeadFlamingos]

I always imagined one primarch being raised by a human/xeno society and had a huge struggle within himself to serve his "father" bu wiping out those who raised him

[@mcswaggerduff8946]

This and the terminus decree have been my favorite episodes. Nothing makes me happier than some good old theory crafting. Takes up my day long after the episode has ended

[@erronbennett2918]

Abit of a dumb theory, but what if when they were discovered, they had the ability to surpass the emporer? Perhaps through xeno tech or chaos but it would explain why they were destroyed before the heresy. The emporer realised during the crusade that they could surpass him, so decided to erase them before they could overthrow him. As for the destoyed information? What would it do to the emporers dream imperium if the common folk found out that the emporer was not untouchable. Perhaps "subject 11" was captured prior to him surpassing big E and is being tested to find out why he was so powerful. As for the second primarch, maybe big E destroyed him before the idea of usurping him could cross his mind, thus ensuring the emporer remained the most powerful entity in the imperium

[@khylerbane4523]

Interesting theory. My headcanon for the Lost Primarchs is one was from a society that has leftover tech from the Dark Age of Technology and has an alliance with Eldar Exodites who in a unbelievable act of selflessness and self reflection realized they were at fault and heed to ally with the lesser species to survive. Creating a civilization with better stuff than even Mars itself with nanotechnology, wraithbone Adamantium hybrid constructs, mechs that rival the Tau and Eldar, even the Dune shields, and much more. This lead to not only a disagreement with the imperium, but the subjugation and near eradication of one’s home. This and the lack of hostile encounters with xenos lead him to be enthralled by the Rangdan. The other lived on a desert death world that turned out to also be a Tomb world or something like that with ancient alien technology left buried deep under the planets surface. And used the ancient Technology buried in the sand to become a advanced civilization with the Primarch having dreams of his own interstellar empire to rule over. But due to messing with technology they knew nothing about accidentally caused the problem equivalent of the BFG 10,000 shooting Mars in Doom Eternal, leading to the extinction of his home. He only joined Emps despite refusing to be subservient to another because he had nothing left and nowhere to go. In his depression and grief coupled with his self centered mentality, he fell and ended up on the chopping block.

[@adenkyramud5005]

Not some blue collar worker here, just a viewer with really bad adhd and who had a terrible day... thanks for making it a long episode, helped me keep my mind off things and just function when i needed to.

[@rendonite]

My headcannon for the lost primarchs is that they were sent to a rival human empire. One that was wholly incompatible with the imperial truth. yet built with mortal hands and free of corruption. A fragment of the old human empire standing strong and defiant. A direct rival to the imperium, which the imperium beat to death with the technological equivalent of a rock. One of the primarchs sided with this empire and became a serious pain in the ass for the forces of the imperium. They then dragged another primarch down with them in the process. after the campaign malchador did funny mind magic to prevent any more of these shenanigans from happening again and to censure the existence of any other human empire other than the imperium. The Victors write the history books...

[@-NGC-6302-]

Mr Clean is obvoiusly the 11th primarch * he is bald, like many other primarchs * he has white eyebrows, like Dorn * he is strong and powerful, like other primarchs * he radiates an aura of intimidation, typical of primarchs' souls * he HATES chaotic filth, just like Malice There is nothing wrong with this explanation. It is simply correct.

[@UrsusPalus]

Some where the Lost ones are discribed as "The Lost and the Forgotten" As maybe 11th is hold captive he could be the forgotten and the 2nd is truly lost.

[@sulrana1812]

The Carcharodons chapter refer to the one who led them out into the dark as "The Forgotten

[@TheRealStyxo]

Good ideas all around! My favorites are Brickys "It was all a test, to see if we could" and DKs idea of the Emperors intimidation. I also think the impact is far greater with Big E having one Primarch kill another, because it sows great distrust between them, hence making it harder for them to join forces against him. He fostered these rivalrys/hatreds whenever he could, e.g. Ultramarines/Word Bearers and Imperial Fists/Iron Warriors.

[@carlosmiguelteixeiraott3643]

I think that for the other Primarch to still defend them but Emps and Malcador to behave like it's some unforgivable sin, it would have to be some, "Goes again the Emperor's secret plan they didn't tell the others" kind of nonsense, 'cus it's the only way I can see the two being "That is absolutely unforgivable" while the other Primarchs are like "It's not that bad though?"

[@oniemployee3437]

58:10 D.K. has a cool theory there. Nothing would make someone more afraid than "No matter how powerful you think you are, i can make you *dissapear* . Not just from sight, but from everywhere, and I have the ability to do it again."

[@izayahwilliams4554]

Dumb question, that I hope someone wiser would know the answer too. But, since all the Primarchs were all made in ways to replace one another, for example: if Perturabo died, Dorn could take his place and things would still move smoothly. But, none of the other Primarchs were as Psykicly powerful as Magnus. Would it be reasonable to assume, the 2nd or 11th Primarch was suppose to be a replacement for Magnus? Maybe that's why the 11th Primarch is locked in the dark cells?

[@maximino-117]

I literally looked this up a few days ago!!! I’m new to the warhamner word so I’ve been watching your channel constantly to get a lot of the history understood and branch of to some of your guests (kirioth & luetin) and I’ve been absolutely fascinated with it. Saying that this was a very anticipated video for me.

[@cygnusereve4779]

Theories. 1. They allied with xenos. Either against the imperium or had them join the imperium. The emperor was against any xenos. 2. The Silent King. This is my wild theory. But the Mask of Sanguinius used to belong to one of the lost primarch. That primarch met the Silent King. 3. The Men of Iron or the use of highly advance AI without any control. So, the Men of Iron acted freely. Maybe the Men of Iron revolted when they coukd have been stopped by the primarch but the primarch said no

[@zfrankhauser4292]

OK legitimately though, i listen to the longer ones all the time while at work or driving my truck for work. You guys making longer episodes is a GODSEND

[@PeteSismico]

When I first clicked on this video and it told me it was private I really thought brick man was playing a practical joke on us 😭🙏

[@BuddyWithTheSideburns]

I really admire the restraint everyone showed in not bringing up the theory that the 11th Legion did nothing wrong and only got wiped out because Russ couldn't grasp the concept of Roman Numerals.

[@benchristopher9601]

I think there needs to be an understanding that the lost legions happened before chaos had really emerged and corrupted leading to a necessity to know about to fight them. Though it may not be fun, my head cannon was that the lost primarchs had xeno sympathy or anti-war ideals that led them to be worth expunging from history during the 30th millennium due to the Emperor and Malcadors ideals being very much focused on Xeon's purging and unwilling worlds at the time. While chaos corruption could have occurred and it was just the time it happened before the heresy we don't get a mention from the traitor primarchs about that seeming to be the reason they were destroyed but rather there seems to be an understatement of honor when speaking of them rather than a perverse reverence. Even the traitors had no love for Xenos and really the setting is the idea that aliens are terrible so why try to defend them. Because as all the sons are a aspect of the emperor the lost two could be his aspect of unity and aspect of peace to an extreme that he saw it as a threat to the existence to the imperium

[@ryandinkelacker8906]

In my personal headcanon 2nd Legion was known as The Onyx Praetorians. The legion specialized in a combination of guerrilla and blitzkrieg tactics; typically deploying on large scale battlefronts. thier use of strange and bizzare reverse engineered xenos tech and weaponry were however severely frowned upon by the wider Imperium. The 2nd Primarch, landed on a harsh and isolated xenos world, under the occupation of as of obscured and forgotten minor xenos empire. he participated in conflicts against hostile xenos and even other minor human empires. The 2nd Primarch believed that certain minor xenos races could be integrated into Imperium’s domain, serving as vassal or even client species. During the Rangdan Xenocides, the Onyx Praetorians were deployed alongside the Solar auxilia and 11th legion against the Rangdan Hegemony-a coalition of cannibalistic, eldritch xenos species that sought to expand their dominion through ruthless conquest and subjugation. The Rangdan Hegemonys individual memebr species each specialized consuming different parts of sapient races, for instance the Sluagth would feast on the brain, the near extinct Ak'haireth would consume the victims bones, and the Rangdan themselves would tear out and consume thier soul.

[@Marsuvee]

[REDACTED BY THE IMPERIUM OF MAN, IN THE NAME OF THE SIGILITE.]

[@maxmoreno1698]

As a service member, YES, 2 HOUR VIDEOS PLEASE

[@Scowleasy]

It’s important to note that wiping them from history was a *mercy*. When Malcador temporarily restored Dorn’s memories of the Lost Dorn agreed it was the best move. Imo this really narrows down what they could’ve done. My take is one killed themselves, and a Primarch doing that was so embarrassing that it would rather be forgotten.

[@ConnorLundeen]

they say in the episode that Malcador could totally just be showing Dorn a false vision.

[@Scowleasy]

@@ConnorLundeen absolutely nothing in that passage suggests that. The story is pretty clear that Dorn is *remembering*, not having a vision. Maybe if they focused more on the accuracy portion of their “entertainment over accuracy” slogan they’d realize that 40k is more than entertaining enough on its own.

[@ConnorLundeen]

@@Scowleasy there's a ton of subtext in Malcador's character that doing something like showing Dorn a false memory isn't exactly impossible

[@jacobbruno5822]

This would be a cool explanation as to why Curze chose to die the way he did, needing someone else to kill him for him so that he could make his point and it be remembered rather than offing himself and being erased from history.

[@Scowleasy]

@@ConnorLundeen not in this instance. Go read the passage yourself and quit being intentionally ignorant. There’s zero hint that anywhere that Dorn is doing anything other than *remembering*. Now stop wasting my time with your bullshit.

[@chod431]

As a blue collar vet listening to the video podcast through my VA issued hearing aides, the 30 extra minutes on the show is appreciated. Sorry, Shy. You have a tough job and are woefully overworked. Thank you all. Keep it up. I love the idea of a whole edition of the game being about the XI th escaping and going renegade.

[@nighthunter8738]

While Lexicanum is a great source of information, it's important to double-check the referenced pages against what's stated on the web site. There are occasional mistakes that can lead to misunderstandings, and in some cases, the Lexicanum information contradicts the sources it's referencing.

[@jacobrodriguez8659]

When yall started talking about wanting longer episodes to make the workday go by. I felt called out.

[@dasshift6925]

This episode never existed. Please face the wall

[@khylerbane4523]

When Horus confronted Malcador two things stood out beyond Malcador force coughing Horus… -The first is that Alpharius of all Primarchs, was completely put off by it. As if despite both everything he and his twin have done and continue to do, this was crossing the line… and having the closest relationship with Malcador, this not only scared him, but took him completely by surprise. As if he never saw this side or knew Malcador had this in him. -The second is that when Horus said “M… Ma… Mal” he wasn’t trying to say Malcador, He was trying to say the name of his forgotten brother. As if to show how unyielding he was and how Horus truly did love and care for his brothers. Kinda foreshadowing his reasoning for and refusal to back down in the Heresy.

[@serialthrilliayahoo]

Are we going to ignore that the Emperor literally had his primarchs decimated? An ancient Roman punishment, used to discipline, entire legions of soldiers for cowardice or insubordination. Killing 1-in-10 using their own brothers-in-arms as the executioners. maybe they all were fucking up

[@aleximenser4278]

One little detail of interest that I always recall in regards to the Lost and the Forgotten is that the 11th legion appears to have had some relation to spiders. There was a graphic a while back (maybe a long time?) that had one of the typical images listing the legions with the usual spaces for the 2nd and 11th. However of note, in this rendition there was essentially unreadable text that was mostly covered up by the cracked glass. Interestingly, the glass over the 11th cracked in a shape that was very reminiscent of a spider perched in a web and what might have been the word spiders at a guess visible underneath. Whether this is a hint towards the fate of the legion in some way or a hint towards their name or nature, its still a good detail and a little different to what we see within the Horus Heresy books.

[@pianospawn1]

Ive definitely seen that somewhere too. Links well with the Soul Drinkers lore too.

[@izzymosley1970]

Maybe one of the lost primarchs was redacted from imperial record because he was too kind maybe this primarch was overly focused on diplomacy from the emperor's point of view and so was deemed a failure.

[@GamerM1235]

Especially Xenos diplomacy. Because the Emperor is very 'humanity first' mentality, to a zeal that he frankly inspires upon the imperium.

[@SofaKing401]

I always liked the idea that one of the Lost was needed into the warp then discovered a couple decades later. While they're warp infection was minimal, it was turning them into a minor chaos god named Malal. The emperor purged malaal and that is why we don't see him in the canon today. His legion, wild loyal was known for dark motifs and violence. They were mind-wiped and dispersed throughout other legions which is why you have chapters that don't fit the official legion like the mortifactors, black templars, carcharodon's and soul drinkers.

[@Doveknight-n8t]

That spoilers redaction didn't happen

[@tomdeneen4880]

I spend hours at my work (work for family) restocking and cleaning and I pop in headphones in listen while I toil. And I also listen when I work on minis. Just busted out some Hernkyn Yaegirs during this episode. Love you guys and love the long episodes!

[@boodstain]

Funny I just started painting my first Space Marine army called “Sons Secondus”. They are Byzantine themed, and I’m having their lore be that after Eribus’ ruinstorm several companies of Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Dark Angels got cut off from the Imperium Secondus and have been fighting believing the original Imperium has fallen. Over time the warpstorm cut them off for millenias due to the time warp fuckery, and eventually some of the Ultramarines (who unknowingly were decendents of the second legion) start to have the blank gene show up and they become a legion specifically able to fuck up chaos and daemons. (As there isn’t a lot of blanks in the galaxy and a legion themed around them would be cool to me.) I also like the idea that they originally had a Female Primarch and that the sisters of silence were originally prototypes for female space marines of the legion bit when the 2nd Primarch was erased from the records they took the oath of silence to keep the secret of their origins.

[@khylerbane4523]

My headcanon for the Lost Primarchs is one was from a society that has leftover tech from the Dark Age of Technology and has an alliance with Eldar Exodites who in a unbelievable act of selflessness and self reflection realized they were at fault and heed to ally with the lesser species to survive. Creating a civilization with better stuff than even Mars itself with nanotechnology, wraithbone Adamantium hybrid constructs, mechs that rival the Tau and Eldar, even the Dune shields, and much more. This lead to not only a disagreement with the imperium, but the subjugation and near eradication of one’s home. This and the lack of hostile encounters with xenos lead him to be enthralled by the Rangdan. The other lived on a desert death world that turned out to also be a Tomb world or something like that with ancient alien technology left buried deep under the planets surface. And used the ancient Technology buried in the sand to become a advanced civilization with the Primarch having dreams of his own interstellar empire to rule over. But due to messing with technology they knew nothing about accidentally caused the problem equivalent of the BFG 10,000 shooting Mars in Doom Eternal, leading to the extinction of his home. He only joined Emps despite refusing to be subservient to another because he had nothing left and nowhere to go. In his depression and grief coupled with his self centered mentality, he fell and ended up on the chopping block.

[@NorthWindAerial]

Alright y'all, I'm the blue collar worker you were talking about in the outro. I listen to your podcast both to fall asleep to as well as while on the tractor all day. The longer the episode the better in my opinion. And also I absolutely love every episode Kirioth is in. You guys are all phenomenal

[@NenorockStudios]

My idea for one of them that either the 2nd or 11th was a blank and was actively trying to mutate humans and some of their Marines with an artificial pariah gene in the hopes of turning humanity into a entire race of nulls, which would of completely gone against emps webway plan.

[@aidan-h3p]

I like to think such a lost Primarch was the only one told about chaos and dedicated to fighting it, hence the megablank abilities, but he defied the Emperor and attempted to tell his brothers about chaos. Big E couldn't stop him himself because of how much of a hard-counter he was to everything psychic, so he sent a order ahead of him to leman Russ to disregard his brothers words as compromised lies and kill him. Also, the gene-seed of such a Primarch could manifest a potent warp-resistance in marines produced with it, and once elements of the 2nd and 11th legions were incorporated into the Ultramarines their lineage lives on in one Lieutenant Titus of Space Marine fame.

[@herrkerr]

I like the theories that the lost primarchs were erased because they were opposed to the Emperor's bloodthirsty campaigns, an idea I’ve had is that during the Rangadan Xenocides they discovered and tried to use a Men of Iron STC like in the first Gaunt's Ghosts book