THE PRIMARCH'S SCATTERING! THE IMPERIUM'S VERSION

Hey everyone Rho here! Today we continue our discussion on the Primarch's Scattering. As we discuss the Imperium's immediate reaction to the event.
Spoiler Warning to begin as today we will be discussing events from the Horus Heresy novel "Valdor: Birth of the Imperium" by author Chris Wraight. As always I really recommend you read the stories for yourself first without spoilers! As that's the best way to enjoy the lore for yourself!
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[@patrickjanecke5894]

Chaos has a track record of lying. Heck, Erebus approached Horus in disguise. I'm also of a mind to believe that Erda was tricked by Chaos, as was the Cabal during the Heresy, etc.

[@TK199999]

In a way Chaos can't help it, they are physically incapable of telling the truth only half truths and convenient lies. It comes from their chaotic nature, since truth is form of order and which is anathema them. In fact we know of only one never born speaking the absolute truth one time and that was Greater Daemon of Nurgle and first of his Greater Daemons at that time during the Plague War Ku'gath. Ku'gath decided for first time in its existence that absolute truth would best serve Nurgle. When Ku'gath said to Mortarin he didn't think his scheme of using the God Blight to kill Guillemin would work. That such a convoluted plan and extremely time sensitive plan to work, suggesting disruption from other Chaos gods as being as likely as the EoM interfering.

[@michaelhowell2326]

You mean to tell me Chaos would lie about something as important as the Scattering?

[@larkin3607]

When valdor said that the emperor was not there. And yet his pressend was felt. This can be the reason why the emperor said to Horus. “ I know you ?? “. He felt the presence of Horus but could not make out that is was really him because he not met the grown version of Horus yet.

[@patrickbateman69420]

Now we need The Primarchs' Scattering (Taylor's Version)

[@RICdiculous09]

Swifty?? 😂 primarchs: 🎶'weeee, are never ever ever ever, growing up together!'🎶

[@TheLaluciDaniel]

2:55 Now I want to see Malcador sprinting at full speed! 😂

[@justinanderson2460]

I feel like the amount of psychic power he wields would allow him him borderline speedblitz if he had to. Remember that when he humbles Horus, the description given is that his hand snaps up and forms an arcane sigil faster faster any of them could even process/react. Keep in mind rhat one if the Primarchs present ro be included in this description was bloody Jaghatai Kahn. Malcador's has always struck me as something like Gandalf or maybe even Darth Sidious who only APPEARS to be old and withered and decrepit. Or that he might be something like that physically, until he draws on his power which makes and idea of him being weak in ANY capacity seem like a really bad joke.

[@williamamely7038]

If Chaos cannot get into the material world, someone from the inside helped them to pull this off.

[@chrisharley5781]

The Primarchs mother.

[@justinanderson2460]

Erda did just this as far as I'm aware.

[@bige8949]

Whoa whoa whoa why did chaos's perspective video come first? I smell heresy

[@Toombs71]

Unfortunately Valdor's words can be true and yet the emperor could have forseen the scattering and decided to act(or non act) as he did. When he's talking to Ra, the Emperor describes his forsight as something where he has to take decisions while events are unfolding. So maybe when Chaos was attacked he chose to give himself and the project another chance, having a backup Plan even of he already knew he would be able to recover his primarchs

[@Toombs71]

*when Chaos attacked

[@chrisharley5781]

What would the backup have been?

[@Toombs71]

@@chrisharley5781 maybe retrieve enough data to keep on working on the legions. Or to keep Astarte busy as long as he could delaying her eventual "betray"

[@MarkStorey-dc4tm]

I don't trust the emperor but I trust Chaos even less. What we've seen in the Emperor's battle with Horus has left me wondering how clear what was going on would be to an eyewitness. Both the emperor and his adversaries (The Chaos Gods) could fight by rewriting reality. I could imagine a scenario where what was going on might have looked one way to Horus and completely differently to Valdor. Magnus and Vulcan seem to have had very different understandings of Magnus' meeting with the Emperor in the siege of Terra. When things are operating on this scale even Primarchs and Custodes are out of their depth.

[@mosessingleton7553]

This is the truth, for chaos lies.💯

[@mrperfectjeff]

Wait are you implying the gods of CHAOS would give a false depiction of events to horus to gaslight him into picking a side. No they could never do that...

[@Jaszunai]

In my opinion, the Emperor could have stopped it, but it would have come at a cost. Maybe some Primarchs would have died or been permanently hurt, maybe all the people there would have died, maybe the Astartes project would have been lost. I think the Emperor felt that letting the Primarchs be scattered was the best option available once events were in motion. In this way the forces of Chaos weren't lying, but they were omitting a lot of information, and hiding the real version of events.

[@neog8835]

To me it's just a matter of the scattering was what the emperor bargained with the chaos gods when he got some of their power/knowledge. The scattering was what allowed chaos to start to influence the primarchs into chaos. Jeghatai was also supposed to fall, but he was swapped with Fulgrim. That would explain why the emperor had a clear bias against some primarchs, because he saw the writing in the wall

[@hawkdreamer7141]

It definitely has a trace of truth, but the perspective shown here is limited at best and dangerous to take as the whole truth at worse. Though combining this and the chaos perspective, may be the closest we'll ever get to the truth of the scattering. It also makes me think that it'll tie in to the primarchs returns and the end times.

[@antonyphiliplynn]

I think the emps chose the Spacemarines over the primarchs. He could find the primarchs but needed the Astarties to take the Galaxy.

[@tneal89]

It's almost like Chaos lies. Who knew

[@tauras3108]

Erda opened the rift to try and skupper the Emperors plans as she foresaw the terror that was coming.

[@Kubrzesz]

And just like in Horus' case it ended being a self fulfilling prophecy

[@lobogonzalo4745]

As I was listening to this narration, I got distracted for a moment when Valdor described 20 pods for 20 primarks. Yes, I know there where 20 legions, 20 rooms beneath the golden throne and 20 statues but where is omegon ? Can it be omegon was the 2nd or the 11th primark ? Where rhwre 2 statues with identical faces and no one noticed ?

[@mikeprice5755]

I don’t think Omegon is II or XI, there’s been the odd description of the lost 2 as separate individuals. Quite a few videos on here about the lost primarchs, but I don’t think they’ll ever give a definitive answer because let’s be honest no answer would satisfy everyone

[@Marcher1977]

Malacador and E can make you believe anything they want you to, and Chaos has no reservations about lying, so we don't really know. We really have no reliable and objective narrator. It could be neither story is true or its some combination of both.

[@ironduke5058]

This isn't them trying to trick the reader though. This is just their thoughts and their words, when you start thinking through the 4th wall like that you'll start justifying anything lol

[@Marcher1977]

​@ironduke5058 if that's true, then your only conclusion is thaf everyone is telling the truth and all accounts are true which is impossible. Do you see the problem your position causes?

[@ironduke5058]

@@Marcher1977 Not at all. What I'm saying is when someone thinks something, that is obviously true to them because they're thinking it. Another layer is added to this when a character who we can reasonably be sure knows the "truth", speaks their thoughts to a character that they "trust" within the context of the topic of conversation and their relationship. In that sense yes, Malcador and Valdor speak their "truth" but not the absolute truth. That is something we can never know I guess Point is you're inclined to believe him rather than not, thinking he's lying or ill informed makes less sense that thinking he's being honest

[@maciejsawicki8095]

Amar Astarte wasn't that much loyal in the end xd

[@TheBlueCollarConservative]

I think the more interesting fact is that Alfarius was found on earth while the other primarchs were scattered across the galaxy

[@tensei_alter]

What I'm seeing is that the Emperor did allow the scattering- by prioritizing the recovery and safety of others on the sight and materials still present- instead of choosing to recover the or prevent the Primarchs from being scattered.

[@chrisharley5781]

That seems odd since he's not one to prioritize the individual over the imperium and having the primarchs develop under his tutelage would have changed their personalities and preconceptions vastly compared to being adopted across the galaxy.

[@huntermad5668]

Maybe because he couldn't prevent that anyway so he prioritize minimizing the damage. If he were there, he could prevent that. But he was not, he only reacted to the intrusion and it became too late

[@headlibrarian1996]

The Emperor may not have realized the true nature of the attack until it was too late to stop. At that point might as well save who you can.

[@ironduke5058]

In the book it's explained that the Emperor wasn't there so he reacted late. Essentially what happened was that the bomb already went off, all he did was try his hardest to contain the shock waves. They were already gone, if he were there it might've been different

[@Curze-rf7zk]

20 primarchs raised with the leadership of to their father, valdor and the siggelite. This attack was more noteworthy than the Horus heresy. Even the emperor's will and power couldn't contend with four. Maybe one...and that's with the fire he conjured:) not weapons, plans or theologies. 20 primarchs raised by the emperor would have devastated the galaxy then the realms beyond. It was his greatest aspect of his plan. He was doing all in his power to save them, and that's why they did survive. Their presence was still anathema to the warp. Thrown back out on a journey that wasn't planned for. He would have retired with Magnus arguing about the best way to destroy the warp while 19 Demi's took over galaxies.

[@toddolson4614]

I have to believe the Emporer was able to influence the scattering. If not I believe chaos gods would have sent all primarchs to worlds for their maximum influence. 1. What timeline differences are there? Where the primarchs stolen (chaos version) before the attack (imperium version)? Erebus could have shown very early stages of the theft/attack. 2) amazing how the primarchs all landed on worlds that fit their gifts/traits or did how they were raised draw out these capabilities. Would angron ended up like Bobby G if he went to Ultramar instead? 3. The Emporer foresight has always been focused on the final goal (what is his final goal) and he is willing to do anything to meet that goal. Do i think he would allow the scattering if his goal was reached? WITHOUT A DOUBT!!! In closing i think the Emporer allowed and influenced the scattering to get the primarchs out before the attack. Placing them on worlds to best influence their skills but also to start preparing for the heresy. All this to get the best opportunity for his goal to be obtained.

[@ironduke5058]

They didn't send them all to planets for their maximum influence because they needed humanity to suffer like it has so they can leech off of it. The Heresy played out perfectly for them and they've been eating good from the emotion and souls of humanity for 10k years. It wouldn't have been fun if they were all evil

[@justinanderson2460]

The thing is, Valdor never mentions encountering Horus - or any being that he actively engages in battle so rhat part of Horus vision is almost certainly Chaos twisting the vision. On the other hand, the fact that by the time Valdor gets to the Primarch Chamber, all the Primarchs are already gone indicates that the Emperor COULD have been there in the moment they were taken and things MIGHT have gone the way Chaos suggested. Especailly since the Emperor was supposedly already walking away before the Primarchs were all even gone. One minor detail though is that in the Chaos version, the entire capsules were taken with the Primarchs inside them. Meanwhile, in this version, it states that the contents of the capsules were gone (the Primarchs themselves) but not the actual capsules they were in. Now its possible this was just an author error or maybe the Primarchs were in little containers that rested in larger capsules and rhe little contaoners with them in it were gone and the larger capsules were still intact so its not really evidence either way, just food for thought. The thing is, theres no reason for Valdor to lie and of the 2 versions, I absolutely trust Valdor's word more than Chaos and fucking EREBUS - seriously, fuck Erebus - however, there is a way for the majority of this to all line up. The Empeor is the first on the scene because why wouldnt he be? He could likely just teleport there or at least get close (assuming the power of Chaos prevented him from porting directly to the chamber itself). In any case, Erda does her shenannigans and allows the whole event to occur in the first place while also hiding it from the Emperor until it is already happening. The moment he's aware, Big E rushes to the chamber and everything we see in the Chaos version from that point on happenes. The dead Custodes Valdor finds on the way is possible a result of Horus being only there in some kind of metaphysical way and so he didn't leave any actual PHYSICAL evidence of him killing them but then, he is only ever present in the actual chamber itself from memory - not fighting his way to it - so that part doesn't seem to check out in any capacity (especially since we know Valdor had nothing to do with it despite what Horus experienced). All in all, rhis is how I think it likely went - assuming we're e trying to make everything kine up as best as possible: First, the event starts to happen and the alarm goes off. Valdor and friends leg it to the place, meanwhile the Emperor was caught off guard (likely thanks to Erda) but still manages to get down there ahead of everyone else. Then events of the Chaos vision then happen as it's shown with Big E seeing the shade of Horus from another time, asking if he knows him, hearing "yes" and then essentially hitting refresh on his foresight and seeing who and what Horus is/will become and begging him to alter his course/path. As to exactly why Big E would allow the Primarchs to be taken is up for debate and there's a number of reasons he might have (most of which involve his viewing of the future and what alternatives he saw if he HAD managed to stop it). Alternatively, maybe he straight up wasn't actually able to prevent it in that moment (even if he was actually physically present in time to see it) and Chaos just made it look like he was - yet again twisting the truth. Whichever is true, Emperor then leaves either unable to stop it or having made the decision to let it happen, just as the last of the Primarchs are stolen away. Whether the loss was willfilly allowed/accepted or he is simply powerless to stop it, either way it makes sense that there is no reason to stick around. If he was powerless to stop it and stayed, rhen others would see his powerlessness and thats not a good look nor does it help. Moreover qith nothing else to do, he may as well help what he can and focus on getting out and rhen holding the place together as best he can so others can do what they did to salvage what they could. If he decided to let it happen, then again, no sense sticking around because he might be contronted with the "why did you let it happen" and that's seemingy not something he wanted to reveal to anyone just yet - plus, again, he might as well focus on doing ehat he could to save what was left and use his power to hold the place together so the rest of Valdor's version can happen. This explains how Horus could be taken in by the Chaos version because there is that shred of truth to it, but like with most of Chaos' machinations and "truths" only a part of it is true and the rest is either twisted or omitted evidence/context or outright fabrication. For example, obviously, there was a lot more going on during the Chaos "assault" on the whole area that Horus was never shown - which makes sense as such destruction and "horror" being caused by them would not have been a good look to Horus. Chaos also needed the Emperor to appear in as bad a light as possible and while it moght SEEM like them showing superiority to the Emperor in him being unable to stop them takkng the Primarchs might sound good on its face, it's actually a terrible idea as then Horus will see THEM as responsible for the suffering and separration of the brothers. Basically, Erda blinds the Emperor to the event and sets it up, Chaos attacks and starts wrecking the place to get to and steal the Primarchs (again with Erda's help), Valdor, Malcador and Astarte run to the alarm and start damage control and salvage opperations on the way, Horus either kills the Custodes on the way with metaphysical blows because he isn't techincally there - while thinking he's in the chamber when really he is actually in the corridors or something - or Chaos just fabricates that whole scenario for him (which is most likely considering Valdor's inclusion in the vision despite him not even being in the room yet at that point in reality), Big E gets there first, sees Horus and what is happening, realises who Horus is and begs him to change course then is either powerless to stop the scattering (with Chaos twisting Horus' view of it) or he chooses to let it happen for reasons unknown, the Emperor leaves for either of the reasons I mentioned above (depending on if he couldn't stop it or if he chose to let it happen) and then Valdor shows up, seeing the Primarchs and the Emperor gone and goes about saving everything he can with Astarte and Malcador.

[@sgs9932]

Next : the perspective of Erda

[@DougBull-jo9vc]

I wish they would do a story on the missing primarchs.Idk about anyone else but introducing the 2 missing and what happened to them would be for me the most interesting thing 40k could do

[@patrickjanecke5894]

But then the mystery would be over.

[@NueThunderKing]

As much as I would like that, the mystery that has built up will never be resolved in a satisfying way

[@DougBull-jo9vc]

@@NueThunderKing idk 40k has some of the best lore in any fantasy media if done right I think they could really do something cool

[@milliondollarmistake]

I think Chaos lying about their "gentleness" doesn't immediately clean the Emperor of any prior knowledge. Maybe he knew it was going to happen which is why he was down there to begin with? Maybe he didn't foresee the scattering to be so destructive but still let it happen?

[@mikevasquez1103]

Perhaps, Horus slaying the Custodians was merely a representation of their deaths.

[@TK199999]

The problem too is everything with never born is metaphor, so its impossible to tell what is and isn't said metaphor. Chaos kills Custodians, Horus see's himself doing it, the EoM holding labs from instantly collapsing, Horus see's the EoM being about to stop it all. Erda brings down the pysker shield, allowing the infant Primarchs to be taken. Horus see's the EoM allowing the Scattering to take place.

[@RaimoKangasniemi]

That the Emperor is now literally a god, but was just an extremely powerful individual when the Primarchs were scattered complicates things. Being a god of the Warp the Emperor is not bound by time and His influence might reach back to the moment of the scattering, just like the possible time travel escapades of others. The human Emperor of 29k might not have foreseen, intended or allowed the Primarchs to be scattered, the god Emperor of 42k might well have. The timeline could have been affected multiple times, shaped both by Chaos and the god Emperor, and different versions could reflect different versions of the timeline before it was reshaped (again).

[@carno8505]

Wyrmwood on my tongue? Parallel to Vashtorr and Lion?

[@garypipe1770]

I think Valdor's description is also kind of a half truth aswell due to his utter loyalty to The Emperor. He uses his own belief to try and answer questions he couldn't imagine.

[@brockwilkie6022]

his memory could also be altered by E.

[@garypipe1770]

@@brockwilkie6022 Very true

[@mykelengieza7057]

ALGORITHM

[@xz569]

Yeah, Big E wanted this to happen. He was always aiming for godhood, it was just very convoluted way to get there. As he would have seen this happen, in all the possible thousands of possible futures, he would have seen this.

[@NigraeLegiones]

Woo first in

[@chrisharley5781]

Grrr

[@waterbloom1213]

You are Alpharius

[@digitalevents-ns4ut]

If this comment gets 40k likes I’ll make explained by an Englishman and clone all major kills videos to piss him off