The TERRIBLE State of Anti-Furry Journalism

This video is an attempt to discredit many arguments proposed in various video essays about furries. To understand why this is an issue we also look at how journalism has evolved into the online scene, and the consequences when research isn't taken seriously.
I wanted to look at more video essays, but as you can see by the length of this video that would have been overbearing. So today we fixate on once specific video by the KZbinr "Jax" titled "The Furry Community is Doomed (Here's Why)"
Hope you enjoy :3
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Music Credits:
Marten Moses - Timetable
Wendek Scherer - Sthlm
Amber Spill - Dirty Treasure
Major Tweaks - Sweeping grounds
Amber Spill - Still Ballin'
Marten Moses - Parallel Existences
Marten Moses - She it he
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Creator of the stills: / olive_cow
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Chapters:
An Age of KZbin Journalism: 0:00
DramaTube: 3:27
James Somerton: 7:23
Fox News: 10:20
Who is Jax?: 12:00
Argument 1, Lust: 15:10
Argument 2, Gluttony: 24:21
Argument 3, Greed: 25:14
Argument 4, Sloth: 28:02
Argument 5, Wrath: 35:32
Argument 6, Pride: 42:29
Argument 7, Envy: 45:27
At least he tried: 46:59
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References: docs.google.com/document/d/1V...
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(thanks for all the support everyone)

[@karasuthedreamer6353]

Saying furries identify as animals is the exact same thing as saying cosplayers identify as fictional characters.

[@_sandy_]

lmfao thats great therians and fictionkin...

[@LittleBarracuda]

Ah well shit, guess Mads Mikkelsen should be considered an actual murderer and cannibal now...

[@YEEHAR_Productions]

This legitimately annoys tf out of me, coz they're just misinformed, But i just gotta keep quiet coz im not open about being a fur.

[@yaboye3791]

​@@LittleBarracuda > me omw to report evey Bateman fanboy to IRS and FBI

[@thesheerwoodcrow5465]

Sadly I’ve seen a lot of cosplayers hate to want to ban them from cons just for being furries.

[@VictorFNV]

"Not everything on the internet is true" -Julius Ceasar 1865

[@TheroTheFox]

such wise words...

[@Baptoasty]

Actually he didn't say "on" he said "in"

[@r4oug3]

fr

[@TheroTheFox]

@@Baptoasty how dare you correct the perfect quote of the great Orange Julius >:(

[@honeycomblord9384]

Nah I think it was a Shakespeare quote

[@MelvinUsesMicrowaves]

Now seeing both sides of this argument, It seems like the majority of "criticism" is more or less just rage baiting by showing off the worst sides of fandoms and collecting everyone into an "us verses them" scenario. Like "EW LOOK AT THIS DESGUSTING THING THAT HAPPENS IN THIS FANDOM. THIS FANDOM IS GOING DOWNHILL."

[@mrpickles-hb6zx]

Stay in that community and you'll see that it isn't rare, people in there sexualize animals to hell and back

[@RatKingKitKat]

they're using the exact same methods political grifters use to garner support for their fringe stances. they're manipulating our primal sense of tribalism for their own benefit.

[@Jump-Shack]

Honestly the best way to sum this and other types videos on this topic is people have a wide range of prospectives on what kind of issues and how bad said issues are in the furry fandom

[@LittleToyBonnie]

Some of them don’t even get the bad parts of the fandom, it’s either someone scribbling on Furry art or using trauma art followed by Gigachad

[@Jump-Shack]

@@LittleToyBonnie curious what that last part is

[@Westlander857]

I admittedly don’t know much about furries, but I apply the same rule to them that I apply to anyone else: as long as you’re a decent person who treats people nicely and not an insufferable sociopathic a**hole, then we’re cool, and I don’t care what you do in your spare time. That includes dressing up in fursuits and going to furry conventions. I have met many horrible people who weren’t furries, but I’ve yet to meet a furry who’s a horrible person.

[@neontheblue]

they are quite rare surprisingly. I once joined a furry discord server just to observed how fucked up furries can and let me say. Out of like *(if i remember correctly)* 300k members, there was 1 single furry that was a pedo. That single experience changed how i view furries forever.

[@erebosthegengar]

There are horrible furries, although, I've yet to run into them in person as a furry myself. I've MOST certainly met horrible people that aren't in the fandom at all. That's a whole... Story on my end of how I am genuinely scared of most anime fandoms just pokemon being the exception.😐

[@YouCanCallMeIz]

@@erebosthegengar Fandoms are like this in general. You just haven't meet the wolf in sheep's clothing wherever you think there might be a "wholesome" or "safe" community. Some advice? Don't trust people.

[@erebosthegengar]

@@YouCanCallMeIz Oh I never trust people anymore. Not after I've been groomed since. In fact I'm extremely paranoid about people who I don't know and I will ALWAYS MAKE SURE SOMEONE IS WITH me at all times... And people will take advantage of the fact that I'm disabled as well.

[@finnthegamingfox5482]

i have the same morals when meeting people

[@CaptArgo24]

99% of the problems in fandoms are down to human beings themselves. You can find the same issues in every fandom, community, or whatever. We seem to blame whatever is the most convenient rather than fixing the problem. What's dangerous is people glassing it into a bigger problem, trying to pass a narrative that undermines the real problem, or just using it to hide their real intentions, their own dark past, or trying to pass blame. Ruben Sim, jax, Turkey Tom, and many others are guilty of doing this, selling a narrative of half-truths and selected examples, using that as justification for why they make those videos. Notice how they pass off the good in the furry fandom and say it's all bad, but when people use the same tactics right back at them for their communities, they get all defective. Double standard society

[@DelusionalPastery]

It's a shame as someone who also enjoys Ruben Sim's content, and previously watched Turkey Tom's content

[@leonseuropeanislandadventu7398]

Damn, that's crazy.

[@Eeeg_yea]

​​@@DelusionalPastery yup...

[@ivoneo2806]

​@@DelusionalPasteryto me not really but sorry that happened to you l guess imo

[@metapuns9004]

See so many videos saying "the dark side of x fandom". When will we see a dark side of sport fans? So many people have assaulted, vandalized, and killed people over ball game

[@CultivationOfMayhem.]

Not a furry myself , but I hate seeing videos about communities that only talk about the bad side , and very little videos talking about the antis or good furries

[@Shyguy5104]

that's because if you want to see the good side of furry just look at furrys themselves

[@yanibo99]

i mean the suspiciously wealthy furry archetype can be a force for good by keeping artists alive via commissions

[@CultivationOfMayhem.]

@@Shyguy5104 Theres a good and bad side to everything , I've had many furry friends and they were all great people . Alot of people focused so much on the bad furries , and I know they exist , but imma not let them make me think all furries are like that

[@Haispawner]

​@@CultivationOfMayhem.I prefer to say "dickhead" instead of " bad furry" because a dickhead can be a part of any fandom.

[@reade_me]

A huge thing i notice is that videos that actually research and talk about the big picture are all made BY furries, people who already see all the negative just see it as "well of course YOUD say that" not many people outside the fandom care enough to fully look into it, and the ones that do actively look for the bad.

[@gregorei]

the “all furries are pedophiles” stuff feels the exact same as the “all trans people are pedophiles” and even before that “all gay people are pedophiles”. can’t we see how stupid it is to generalise a massive group of people? it’s just a way to demonise a community, and it’s stupid. these youtubers know what they’re doing.

[@RatKingKitKat]

exactly, they’re no different from political grifters like that libs of tik tok page or anything fox news ever produces.

[@Dog_Rodger]

It's like saying "omg a few people committed crimes now every person is a criminal!". Makes no sense at all.

[@dataexpunged93N15]

As a rule of thumb, if someone is directing hate at a large amount of people to "protect the children," it's likely just censorship or bigotry towards that group, 9 times out of 10. They're removing Anne Frank, To Kill a Mockingbird, and other important books from some American schools to "protect the children", but is that not just censorship? There's tons of other situations like this, too- like how D&D was considered "demon worship", was "unsuitable for children", and it's players were "satanic messengers". Same thing happened to Pokemon as well, rock music, jazz, burlesque performances, etc. This is just an evolution of that rhetoric, and it's getting *very* tired- particularly because almost all the arguments come from a very Christian perspective. (Nothing against christians or religion in general, but it's getting more and more frustrating to keep seeing it used to hate others. Jesus would not approve.)

[@bob171]

Pretty sure there are far more straight pedophiles than gay ones

[@NeonBeeCat]

Unfortunately, we tend to ignore the positives and hang onto the negatives, in nearly everything.

[@JD_9001]

The “furries are doomed” sounds like the Fortnite is dead videos see how that has ended up

[@MelvinUsesMicrowaves]

Apex is the fortnite killer gone wrong❗❗ ❓️❓️⁉️‼️⁉️police involved 🚨 gone sexual ⁉️😵

[@JONOFTHEJONS]

God. I love Fortnite’s insanity nowadays. It’s perfect. ❤️

[@codebust9750]

fortnite is a n entirely different beast, and it most certainly did die. the game has a playerbase now, and has seen an uptick in the last year or two, but it is nowhere close to where it was. i feel epic lost sight of what the game used to be and gave in to the massive amount of bloat used to try and keep people around so that they buy the newest skin

[@GrayDaDolf]

Not a protogen, but I can concede that Fortnite has not been the same as it was circa two years ago.

[@manboy4720]

and they got furries in fortnite, too.

[@october3122]

It is really weird that the guy says that people need to have sex in order to be a In a relationship. Also, people talk about their boyfriends and girlfriends all the time on Twitter all the time in and outside of the Fandom. So why is it supposed to be a shocker.

[@reggiel7313]

It's so weird, he sounds genuinely mad at someone on twitter being happy because they have a partner like it's not a thing you're supposed to do??? Is sex the only thing you are allowed to enjoy in a relationship???

[@october3122]

@reggiel7313 Yeah, is he saying that Twitter is not a place for sharing that you're in a relationship? Also, there are multiple forms of relationships just as there are multiple forms of expressions of love. Which I don't know why that's so difficult for some people to grasp.

[@purplepedantry]

​@@october3122 Because some people have never seen other people as anything but a resource. That's how they can act so atrociously towards us, yet also claim that we're the awful ones for having a hobby, all while never feeling bad about it.

[@rezmainia]

Its honestly gave off incel vibes ngl, i wouldnt be surprised if he was part of those forums tbh

[@freshoranges27]

@@reggiel7313 they bad cause they got 0 game

[@endcaps1917]

One thing I noticed about anti furry sentiment It's very linked to queerphobia Like think about it Hating a bunch of people for being themselves by using rhetoric such as "they're predators" "they're degenerates" "they're groomers" seems alot like the same rhetoric used to discriminate, criminalize and even kill queer people

[@Fluffy_W]

and a good amount of furries are queer too and they definitely know that and use that as more of an excuse to hate on them

[@Skigress]

It is the same arguments. The overlap between anti-furry and ant-LGBTQIA+ is worrisome.

[@zombae.]

I knew a guy who was bisexual and disliked furries cuz he got groomed by one

[@ComicXanz]

It’s a bigoted tactic against all groups seen as not normal. We as humans will never evolve into peace without shedding our biases and tribalism.

[@Mx_Rabbit]

Anti furry stuff is pretty much a excuse to hate people because "its weird".

[@berrybluebird3842]

There are anti furs that actually use nazi motifs unironicly. If you ever wanted to know where the racism accusation comes from, that is where it came from.

[@windee5714]

these guys be like “I hate furries!!” and then be like “I love (certain German leader)!!!” but then it’s like bro ur 8💀💀

[@guerrillavanilla]

There are also furries that use Nazi motifs unironically so what's your point

[@purplepedantry]

​@@guerrillavanilla That it's heavily imbalanced towards the anti-furs. This is why every school system should have media literacy as a baseline for language classes.

[@Spiney09]

Be careful not to do what Jax does. This video calls out Jax for only using a tiny portion of a group to make a sweeping generalization. Not all anti-furs are racist either. I’m from the brony fandom, we had an issue with lots of racists being on the fandom at one point, yet that obviously didn’t mean all of us were racist. Yet of course… people generalized it anyways, to earn internet cool points I guess.

[@Shy_002]

@@windee5714 Like bro, no you arent a based sigma nazi, your a middle schooler, go do your homework

[@thunderspark1536]

Funniest thing about all of this is that furries have existed for literally ever, every group has had some sort of animal god or creature that was worshipped and dressed up as, and all of those were human-made too. If anything furries are more honest, they just like to dress up as characters.

[@Wroar2020s]

Meanwhile.. Ancient Egypt...

[@lefishe5845]

Zeus commonly pretended to be animals to get with women so Zeus was a furry too.

[@maximeleninja4029]

@@lefishe5845 I mean not really since Zeus is just there for the s-

[@lefishe5845]

@maximeleninja4029 True. He sleeps around.

[@Bowtiethesilly2023]

Anubis is kinda nice

[@sheriffrandom2276]

It's not just that he doesn't get furries, he doesn't get most aspects of fandoms and comunities

[@Nikola_M]

I think i remember him doing the same to a lesser extent to Minecraft players

[@Cloaker86]

i think Jax is good at what he does but this take was horrible

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

I don't think any community should have a aspect of not giving a damm about bad people, just pat them on the back and say "move on", that's not very good at all.

[@sheriffrandom2276]

Though I definitely wasn't talking about THAT, I do agree @@Nicocgboy_lindo

[@sootekken]

As an ace furry I always laugh when people generalize our entire community as sex obsessed 😂 if anything I’m the complete opposite I’m just here for the fun characters and costumes

[@user-burner]

There is a sexual side of the furry fandom and that's because there's a sexual side of humanity lol. I dont get why people even get so worked up about that kind of thing.

[@Imnotoook]

@@Glamrock-Sakura i used to think flashgitz was funny but then they started getting really weird and gross for no discernable reason

[@sockthustra8749]

Yeah I don't understand why these people get so obsessed with how sexual something is

[@thunderspark1536]

@@sockthustra8749 Humanity as a whole: has sexual urges because making babies is needed to keep a group alive. Anti-furries why are these HUMANS sexual?!

[@peanutsveryepicchannel8699]

@@sockthustra8749 Honestly, I see sexual stuff as fine as long as you don't involve minors or people who aren't comfortable with it.

[@AnarchyIsLove]

the reason he finds furry porn every 4 posts is because he looks at furry porn all the time and the algo feeds him what he typically clicks on lol. people like that tell on themselves all the damn time

[@emilywenig4390]

If they wanna criticize furries for the pron being everywhere, have they ever seen the amount of Anime stuff that's out there? All you have to do is Google 'Anime Girl's, and something sus will pop up. Googling 'furry' will bring up popular artwork and fursuits. I think that problem is way worse in the anime community, and this is coming from a weeb.

[@TheroTheFox]

the people who consume the most furry porn are the ones complaining about it

[@D_YellowMadness]

Even just the basic logic people like him put out is a self report. About all of them like other shows/games that have a lot of furry or pedophilic art in their fandoms so by their own logic, they must like that stuff. Common examples include Pokemon, South Park, Adventure Time, Made in Abyss (duh), Berserk (duh), & Dragon Ball (duh).

[@TheroTheFox]

@@D_YellowMadness that's bias for you

[@emilywenig4390]

@@D_YellowMadness Steven universe, Owl House, Powerpuff Girls, Invader Zim, Kirby, etc

[@anthonybones272]

plenty of furries i met are sweet as pie there are zoophiles in the furry fandom does not mean everyone does that in the fandom not everyone in the fandom does the dirty in their suits its only a small amount of people do these things people in my life think they are freaks no they really are not freaks

[@mrpickles-hb6zx]

They brush them off as if it's "normal" but say only women get pregnant and they all hate u

[@spy-ops1052]

@@mrpickles-hb6zx What does this mean?????

[@KalDoesStuff]

Suits are expensive. I wouldn't like to get bodily fluids on it, it seems like ruining the suit with that :/ (Btw, I have nothing against people who do enjoy doing it, though)

[@MattStMarie-bm5sq]

please add your periods

[@PumpyGT]

​@@mrpickles-hb6zx huh?

[@The-realness-is-baffling]

Anyone who says furries want to be animals should realise humans are biologically animals

[@Bowtiethesilly2023]

FACTS🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥🔥 KEEP PREACHING BUDDY ❗❗❗❗❗🗣️🔥🔥🔥

[@dse763]

"The supposed psychical gulf between human and non-human beings has no more existence, outside the flamboyant imagination of man, than has the once-supposed physical gulf. It is pure fiction. The supposition is a relic of the rapidly dwindling vanity of anthropocentricism, and is perpetuated from age to age by human selfishness and conceit. It has no foundation either in science or in common-sense. Man strives to lessen his guilt by the laudation of himself and the disparagement and degradation of his victims." J. Howard Moore - The Universal Kinship

[@zeal9442]

Watch them have a meltdown. It'll be hilarious.

[@jrndjdudj]

i can already heard like religious kiddos says god created us☠️

[@ConfusedUniverse-wj9fw]

I hate it when people are like "i get it i really do.... but you are metally ill" they are just wearing a fucking costume stop shitting yourself over it

[@TraductorNormal4971]

Ruben sim mentioned

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

Tell them to pull up the DSM and try to diagnose whatever "mental condition" in question is.

[@camelthegamer7165]

You watch people pretend to be badasses, geniuses or comedians while I pretend to be friendly with other pretenders.

[@Periwinkleaccount]

Meanwhile, the anti-furry is wearing a different kind of costume: a clown one.

[@Tortillasoup-se7sh]

Ruben sim is more about getting furries off of Roblox to stop kids from seeing stuff they shouldn’t to the high amount of adult content.

[@NightmareLyra]

Wait until he finds out Squidward is an anthropomorphic character

[@PostalGuyy]

You don't think of a furry when you see an octopus acting human.

[@ophois9265]

And what's going to happen after this? You realize that the universe is under no obligation to revolve around furries, and that not every character with human features is a furry (by)product?

[@NebulaRanger]

@@ophois9265 Then stop letting furries live rent free on your head lmao, you're revolving yourself around them

[@spoopyvirgil4944]

@@PostalGuyy You are aware that aquatic fursonas are a thing, right? I don't know if they have an official term (I've seen Fishies used) but they exist. The most popular ones you'll find are sharks.

[@PostalGuyy]

@@spoopyvirgil4944 I don't care 😮

[@deanender14-jx4to]

The Classic Hypocrisy of anti furs. Sees male furry: Ew Furry. Sees a hot “female” furry: I’m not a furry BUT Love we can make people furries by doing this lol

[@Helpmefrfrfrfr_help]

The cheeseburger irony

[@deanender14-jx4to]

@@Helpmefrfrfrfr_help Yeap xd

[@20SG20]

"hot" isn't necessary to make them react like that XD!

[@deanender14-jx4to]

@@20SG20 XD probably!, also when I say “female” because furries are easily gender confused, when you say a furry looking like a female hot, the artist would say, “he’s a guy”. Sooo

[@Helpmefrfrfrfr_help]

​@@deanender14-jx4to i laugh at the irony of the anti furs

[@postal2forthe3ds]

the point he made in wrath where he said that political differences would be the death of the furry community REALLY got me. does he even know how a community works?? like apply that to any other hobby thats more socially acceptable and itd sound absolutely insane. "the d&d community has a wide variety of different political beliefs, which will be its downfall" 💀💀

[@falcon_arkaig]

It's like...does Jax not know literally every single fandom or group has people with different politics then each other? That's just how humans work. There are conservative furries, Democrat Furries, socialist Furries, communist Furries, fascist Furries, etc. Like idk how that would cause our downfall when that's a fact of every semi large fanbase. Istg Jax is so out of touch.

[@yoyogre]

That's cuz the perfect community for him is a religious congregation. Everyone must have the same opinion. Anyone deviating is rejected. Why else would he (poorly) section his video into 7 sins and spew puritanical rhetoric?

[@ToaOfFusion]

I remember whenever I hear that, it's often coming from a fascist who wishes to overtake a community. I remember hearing that all the time back during the Atheism+ controversy before members of the Skeptic Community complaining about Atheism+ ended up becoming theocratic fascists, or at the very least were repeating those talking points.

[@Mx_Rabbit]

Yeah the crochet commuinty is wayy too diverse its gonna implode from all the different opinions 💀

[@NeonBeeCat]

Im a liberal centrist, FurAffinity has fallen

[@Apollo_Vanron]

I see humans, but no humanity. -some random internet stranger

[@Suitedbee]

Idk if you are furry BUT DANG THAT LINE GOES SOOOO HARD

[@Funnibunny73]

Agreeing on the person with the engineer pfp here with this one

[@TraductorNormal4971]

Sounds like a quote from someone thatt read Humanity lost

[@Apollo_Vanron]

@@Suitedbee I am not. It's nice to know the Engineer is engi-here.

[@TheroTheFox]

that shit goes hard holy crap

[@Angel-Dust-The-Prostitute]

Ruben Sim: Preaches moderation be taken seriously to roblox in one hand, unfairly sees all furries as evil in the other through prejudice, poor judgement, and just plain hatred. Ruben Sim is a hypocrite in this sense. You can't hate all furries, while preaching moderation being good, because you've proven you aren't fit to be an reasonable judge; and if moderation WAS put in your hands, there would only be tyranny, not democracy.

[@diegolopesme]

in moderation theres no democracy closest is elite democracy only the elite vote theres no election to be a moderator

[@JaniceJamieJohn]

and also ruben has also admitted to drawing nsfw of a 12 year-old's roblox avatar

[@diegolopesme]

seeing roblox pratices i dont think anithing will change

[@Angel-Dust-The-Prostitute]

@@JaniceJamieJohn There's that... But I believe he just needs to change, not be deplatformed. with my intentions I try to see the good in everyone...

[@gone.109]

It is reasonable to judge people who dress up as animals.

[@ZirconiaGacha]

I judge by person. Someone is a furry and a good person? They're a good person who happens to be a furry. A furry and a bad person? They're a bad person who happens to be a furry. Doesn't matter if it's connected to the furry part or not. I don't identify with the furry community even though a lot of my characters are anthro animals in some way simply because EVERYONE ELSE seems to see it as inherently sexual (or something more aligned with other points Jax tries to make): really doesn't help that my family dislikes furries and the fact that "furry" was something I as teased with a summer camp once. If this type of thing keeps happening, people might leave the fandom due to shame or harassment, which would suck since the furry fandom is welcoming to most people.

[@Rubia376]

also this literally has happen to every group since dawn of mankind and ig lying too

[@TheRandomDeveloperInThisPlace]

I usually never comment on vidoes but this video has scratched the once untouchable itch in my head. As a furry game developer I've gotten falsey reported, terminated, and even recieved many death threats from strangers that I had nothing to do with. These anti-furs and other anti-community groups have ruined the meaning of "Degenerate". Degenerate now means "something or someone that does or likes something that I don't like". If you don't like us then just avoid us. We aren't gonna run at you and say "haiiii uwuwuwuw owowow haru owo!? Wahts this bulgy wulgy?!" If anything, we'd just ignore you if you don't want anything to do with us. As a furry if I see another furry publically being sexual then I'd smack for making the rest of us look bad. If you want to befriend one of us then approach us like a normal person and we will react accordingly. Again, we don't go around saying uwu publically. We usually act very "furry-like" around friends that are completely fine with us doing it. If you don't like acting like that then tell us and we'll stop. THANK you for clearing our names! May the algorithm bless you.

[@TheRandomDeveloperInThisPlace]

Oh! And as I've noticed, most anti-furs are worse than most bad furries which is quite ironic :p

[@noahdaanimalguy7673]

@@TheRandomDeveloperInThisPlace half of their profile pictures are the na*i flag with something anti furry in it, they literally are admitting their the bad guys as soon as you see their channel profile lol

[@eightcoins4401]

Degenerate literally is a word invented by eugenicists. You kinda start to feel like theres a reason those people love that word so much.

[@sqrt7956]

Keep in mind that there's nothing wrong with being uwu-y and cute in public. If someone enjoys behaving that way, anti-furs just have to cope - we don't have to bend our actions to fit their standards. (Saying bulgy wulgy to a random stranger, however, is SH so don't do that lol)

[@TheRandomDeveloperInThisPlace]

@@sqrt7956 fair point

[@SunriseJayebii]

It’s crazy how the guy’s arguments against furries is literally applicable in any other fandom/social group lmao

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

Well, the "arguments" he brings up are like 10X in the furry community, and they have even more bad stuff, not just simple can be applied to anything arguments.

[@KudoRedfox]

@@Nicocgboy_lindoElaborate? Instead of a blanket term "Is worse"

[@stuffjuststuff6067]

@@KudoRedfox porn

[@Helpmefrfrfrfr_help]

anti furries have to be the most childish people i've ever met.

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

@@KudoRedfox What elaborate dude, that all i need to say, it's just worse.

[@whitestarlinegoodnight]

I sincerely hope you don't end up getting merc'd by the algorithm for daring to question Turkey Tom. I've seen it happen before. You hit the nail on the head when you described him as an edgy twenty something man who says he "hates everyone equally" but is _suspiciously adamant_ that using slurs isn't that bad. He basically took up the mantle from Pewdiepie of edgy content creator that avoids being terminated solely by virtue of being a KZbin golden boy.

[@user-burner]

He also defended Alex Jones so uh...

[@whitestarlinegoodnight]

@@user-burner No way... when?

[@user-burner]

@@whitestarlinegoodnight he has a alex Jones video iirc. I think it's a very centrist "oh but he got some things right" take.

[@TheroTheFox]

​Its called being neutral ​@@user-burner

[@user-burner]

@@TheroTheFox not when you're defending Alex fucking Jones lol

[@Doppler_the_Protogen]

Omg the vore jumpscare had me completely off guard lol NOT kinkshaming, I just found it funny that vore was the closest thing the guy could find to gluttony

[@user-nm7jh8qv1k]

I mean, what is he suppose to put there? I guess weight gain counts too.

[@notsolocallocalalien1034]

@@user-nm7jh8qv1k good point

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

@@user-nm7jh8qv1k Which is funny because neither paraphilia are mutually exclusive to furries.

[@erebosthegengar]

I've legit seen vore and weight gain being something in ALL communities myself, Starwars... YUP.... Marvel? DC? YUP to those as well... Pokemon? Yeah... Anime and even I seen. Furry, of course, yes, Fallout, yes... JOHN WICK WEIGHT GAIN AND VORE ART?! I really wish I was joking about that last one.

[@user-nm7jh8qv1k]

@erebosthegengar so true. Don't know why people turns it into a furry exclusive thing. It's dumb.

[@falcon_arkaig]

It honestly feels like 99% of the issues people bring up about the furry fandom (and act like are unique to the furry fandom) are a thing in LITERALLY every fandom on the Internet. These anti-furries act like all these issues are holy unique to the furry fandom and don't look at the fandoms they're in. Of course we furries should try to inprove our fandom and make it better, but with the fandom being consistent of more than a million people there will always be bad furries.

[@Suitedbee]

As a old anti furry thats not the case they have more problem with these stuff they simp for animals not for simping also they think zophiles and furrys are pretty similer

[@thesheerwoodcrow5465]

Seriously like if you had taken the word furry out, and replaced it with any other fandom, you wouldn’t know.

[@RatKingKitKat]

@@Suitedbee did you not watch the video? did you not read other comments pointing out how it is a very hated sub-section of a fandom that isnt accepted by those at large, and youre doing the EXACT same thing that this video is condemning by conflating "being furry = zoophile". shame on you.

[@progfox]

​@@Suitedbee wtf kind of language is that

[@Xxxvidsdg]

@@Suitedbeeone likes real animals the other doesn’t furries don’t and have never claimed zoophiles to be apart of the community

[@reggiel7313]

His views on relationships are so weird man, he's saying that if someone's in a long distance relationship then it's bad because they're not having sex like that's the only thing that matters but then if he sees people in the community enjoying sexual content that's also somehow bad, like what are these people supposed to do then??

[@eightcoins4401]

Its my favorite part of any like "Anti-x" hate video. Really often you see all the creators insecurities flow into it.

[@Hertas69thpuppet]

Ironic how anti-furries are the ones most addicted to furries

[@frippertroniks]

cos they’re usually closeted furries or little kids

[@Just_A_Guy_Here.]

Because for a simple reason, can't be an anti-furry without furries involved, ha.

[@Shy_002]

It basically the same with all of these groups based on hate, they are super obsessed with who they hate

[@Acacius1992]

Cause they are ignorant. And want to feel better about themself. But instead of doing and improve themself, just hate on a group so they can feed their pathehtic fragile egos

[@Hertas69thpuppet]

@@Just_A_Guy_Here. I mean, I hate Logan Paul as much as the next guy but I don't base my entire personality around it

[@Krixzenz]

As someone who has had such a bad experience with the fandom that it has driven me out of it, it INFURIATES me how badly represented the bad side of the fandom is in the drama videos people make. There's some really important conversations that can be had that can criticise the bad parts of the fandom that people are too afraid to talk about but instead people stick to the usual furry bad xD cringe videos. Honestly, with a lot of these situations that happen could open up conversation about things that furries need to improve on to make the fandom more inclusive and safe but drama video makers are cowards.

[@Urastinker]

it's hard for some people who want to be in the community to fit in, there's people such as myself who typically stay to themselves to enjoy being a furry because the community imo isn't very welcoming but i have met some great people in it it's just unfortunate me or others can't be in one place where everyone can just vibe and i get that it's wishful thinking but sometimes the community kinda does it to themselves but the black and white view that people have that all furries are bad or whatever it's just not true, i feel like a bunch of communities could benifet from being seen in a grey area nowadays tbh, my point is it's a good place if you meet the right individuals

[@Spiney09]

This. It’s not just an issue with furries either, I’ve seen this same problem happen with other fandoms, and even whole religions occasionally. Saying the bad things everyone agrees with shows you’re in the “cool group” to the people who agree with you, and people will repeat those criticisms to show they’re “thinking critically” and “doing research” and “care about the victims” when in reality this kind of ‘discussion’ ignores the victims, encourages no change at all, and leaves the real problems unsolved. Many of these groups have genuine issues that should be addressed, but because it’s not cool to talk about those issues, they never get addressed, and instead while groups get misrepresented for others’ social status.

[@Rubia376]

@@Urastinker i disagree but maybe because we have different experience

[@Urastinker]

@@Rubia376 I more or less agree with your disagreement because my point was meant to come off as a Grey area because there are good people and there are bad people in the community you could apply that to every community, yes but I'm primarily referring to furries, we may have had different experiences and I'm glad if yours was positive but alot of mine were unfortunately negative, and it was enough for me to distance myself from the community, I would love to be shown a more positive, understanding, and patient side of the community that is consistent, I'm not sure if that's wishful thinking or asking for too much but I'm just one gal I'm not entitled to anything

[@skunksecond]

You cant even call it "journalism"

[@MarquisLeary34]

It's not. It's pure editorial, no less.

[@dustdoorknob4096]

was gonna say, shoulda put quotation marks on it in the title

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

It's not, i've never seen it that way.

[@atari3371]

90% of that guys video about the bluey fandom was genuinely laughable. Allegeding there are people in the fandom "grooming kids to draw gore" while showing example of bluey and bingo as the 10 YEAR OLD FLUTTERSHY AMNESIA CREEPYPASTA ART is genuinely one of the most willfully ignorant bullshit I've seen. His entire analysis was "I just discovered fetishes and gore exists on the internet, but it being from a KIDS SHOW makes it EVIL AND HORRIBLE NEVER DONE BEFORE." His twitter crusades on the fandom to showcase predators is so tiring, internet pedophile vigilantes are genuinely so annoying because they pretend to display justice while making works that are only harming future victims from being taken seriously. Framing this around the entire fandom and not as minors on the internet is so dishonest and completely idiotic. His videos are genuinely so bad.

[@Fizzymilkshakee]

They would die if they saw muffins (creepypasta)

[@RonDoncombe]

why don't people focus on actually reporting real crimes and saving real kids instead of going to drawing they know they hate just to call people groomers. Maybe people should actually do actions that help people instead of complain about art they choose to look at the cry about

[@disgustingseal681]

So what you're getting at is that he's just another Mamamax type

[@badatfortnite3641]

​@@RonDoncombe are you stupid

[@Its-pronounced-ay-zaer-e]

he probably thought of it like that because he didnt know about a decade old obscure mlp creepypasta

[@reggiel7313]

I did NOT expect the weird anti furry rant to just be ace phobia, that took me off guard not gonna lie

[@muensterchicken2030]

Like 90 percent of anti furry content is anti queer content.

[@TheroTheFox]

@@muensterchicken2030 not to mention Ableist! Never forget that

[@reggiel7313]

@@muensterchicken2030 My god, it's just "not kink at pride" discourse all over again

[@TheCascadeKing]

@@TheroTheFoxYou pulled that out of your ass

[@muensterchicken2030]

@@TheroTheFox Sorry but I don’t really know any ableist anti furry rhetoric, I’m genuinely intrigued what’s an example?

[@imaginarylloyd8892]

I tried what was suggested, searching for furry on two twitter accounts, one for sfw art, and another for nsfw. The SFW account did not show anything lewd after a few minutes of scrolling. As for the one for nsfw art, I did see one pic of a furry in a skin tight outfit about 15 tweets down, another in underwear around 40 down but oddly enough no specific pornographic material. I'm just one guy with a few twitter accounts, but that at least confirmed what you said.

[@erebosthegengar]

Seriously, that is how it normally is, you'd have to really searching for these things to see it. People will do anything to try to put us furries into bad lights.

[@kylejones8289]

Because of the fact that most algorithms factor your account history when you search a social media platform like Twitter, it is quite likely that if Jax got mostly porn when searching "Furries" on Twitter, that might say more about Jax's Twitter history than the proportion of furry porn to sfw art on Twitter, especially if other people have trouble replicating it.

[@LoofisGreyclaw-yg8tv]

When I think about this topic, it reminds me of the way the infamous gas attack was covered, dozens were hospitalised and those reporters thought it was hilarious. Alas, I think it’s fear of those who don’t conform to a very strict set of norms that leads to significant amounts of hatred. The mere existence of furries creates most of the hatred and people use said hatred to gain clout. We as a group sadly just have to push back and just continue being ourselves without going beyond the pale and expel those who go too far. P****s and Zoos are a tiny minority and have zero place in the fandom. There will always be lies, we just have to be better and also ignore the falsehoods of those with axes to grind and vendettas. Most of us are good people and ultimately things have improved so much since the dark days of the 90’s. A few people spouting lies won’t kill the fandom, we are here to stay

[@Puzzlemaster357]

yea I'm not to scared if them. i mean historically trying to get rid of a specific group of people never works.

[@unbearablysmug2437]

Carthage?

[@peanutsveryepicchannel8699]

I mean, it does usually come terrifyingly close

[@Puzzlemaster357]

@@peanutsveryepicchannel8699 well yea but only when they were killing the groups of people they were targeting.

[@lunaticbeans8600]

@@unbearablysmug2437Not to the Holocaust.

[@purplepedantry]

​@@unbearablysmug2437 They still lived. Peoples rarely just die, and while their culture and nation was scarred, there's still a traceable history and remaining culture left from Carthage.

[@6tanooki9]

i think moist critical is the exeption to content machines. he uploads about twice a day, with minimal effort yet rarely resembles a normal "drama channel" that pumps out daily videos.

[@Megajaybreaker4]

Probably because he doesn’t do just drama. he does basically whatever he feels like. he does a video about a game’s release (like act man but low editing) and then he’ll talk about a drama with food.

[@joseordaz655]

Because he gives his opinions on problems and much much more to what he talks about

[@ShadowLinkxMaster]

Love it when Charlie also talks about to state of things as well. His most recent upload affects so many people, that being using internet without adblocker being almost completely unusable.

[@kyleinthejar6829]

To be fair, Charlie’s fans seem to be more entertained by him than they are any of the subjects he covers in his videos. He could upload every hour of every day and people would eat it up because of his charming personality. Much better than any “content machine” I’ve ever seen.

[@fluidwolf]

@@kyleinthejar6829 He always seems to have fun and goofy analogies that tend to make listening to whatever he is talking about at least entertaining.

[@azzarox6661]

Jax's arguments, especially with the anxiety stuff, straight up come across as ableist and gatekeep-y. JFC.

[@TheroTheFox]

That's what happens when someone who tires to talk about something he doesn't understand lolz. Jax didn't even look deep into his topics he "covered"

[@octangular5852]

what is jfc?

[@hi78889]

The funniest shit ever is the haters acting like furries are a whole different race like brotha chill it is not that serious ☠️

[@KaijuDove]

never in my life have i heard someone have a take like "i dont like that furries commission art bc they're too dedicated their characters". like. fursonas are usually either the person's actual self as an animal or their ideal self. like. fuck yeah, i want to support small artists and get art of myself! if people like my character design and i get a following from it, than cool! but ive never once thought of that as like. a goal or anything lol.

[@enderkatze6129]

I find it so goofy that He actually sectioned His Video into the 7 deadly sins

[@Jack-mk7yy]

Enderkatze give me my son back

[@enderkatze6129]

@@Jack-mk7yy what

[@oranges369]

It's so blatant that he just wants to paint himself as who idubbz was and likely sees youtube's edgy years as the best time on the internet, where hate-filled content flooded the homepage all with the look of apathy because back then not caring was a sign of being the cool one.

[@RoachManTheFirst]

@@enderkatze6129 I'm going to assume it's some reference to that 7 deadly sins anime series, but I never watched it so I have no idea.

[@Wilker_uwu]

that should have been the first flag to notice about that kind of video

[@sockthustra8749]

The whole thing about Jax going after the furry fandom for being "sex-obsessed" seemed really sus to me. Anti-pornographic/anti-lewdness sentiment in general is a really big fascist dog-whistle so I'm immediately suspicious of anyone who unironically uses words like "degenerate" to describe people they dislike or criticizes others for being "too sexual".

[@Chaotic_Jackal]

It’s also a self fulfilling prophecy due to how most modern search engines work considering the more you search for something, the more the search algorithms of most sites are going to start front-loading that thing for you.

[@theveganduolingobird7349]

degenerate is a buzzword for "attracted to things im not and i dont like that :("

[@ArbitraryOutcome]

It's also a potential sign of someone who probably has their own skeletons in their closest. Something something projection.

[@Mx_Rabbit]

Yeah and theres nothing wrong with just enaging with the community sexually (with other adults ofc) if thats just what you are into. People just like to use the anonymous part of the internet for things they cant really do irl often.

[@D_YellowMadness]

@@ArbitraryOutcomeYeah, if someone asks like the sexual aspects of a fandom are the only reasons someone could be a fan, I'm gonna assume that person likes porn of any show/game they talk about liking. And considering how many of the people who use that logic just happen to love Made in Abyss, South Park, Pokemon, & Dragon Ball, you can probably see where I'm going with this.

[@raliavali4941]

I'm glad this rebuttal of a video exists, whenever I watched the Jax videos, it was with my non furry friends, and we also were skeptical of how he presented what he thought was evidence. Very lovely watch, Clapped. :)

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

I'm not glad because it really come across as trying to disregard most of the actual problems and just complaning about random people.

[@Ryomen_Suluna]

Researching, Voicing, Producing and editing this banger must have taken forever. Amazing work Clappy!!! However, don't work yourself too hard (:

[@Clappedseal]

Thanks you so much! And don't worry I've been regulating myself fine :> Burnout hasn't been getting to me I think I've got a good balance right now

[@MattStMarie-bm5sq]

You could use a team of people and make a real news organization out of this.@@Clappedseal

[@Ryomen_Suluna]

@@Clappedseal That’s good to hear :> I’m happy you’re feeling balanced and taking care of yourself. Keep up the good work!!! :3

[@Sylpher-xc4cq]

Saying all furries are zoophiles is like saying all Minecraft players are predators. Yeah, on social media and other platforms you'll be fed the most unhinged materials, especially regarding content creators and public figures, but in general most people in both fandoms are just people wanting to have fun.

[@therealno_one]

Yeah

[@BR2225_]

Finally someone with a critique of TurkeyTom. I still watch some of his videos but his community is very toxic I once asked on a video about what parents can do to protect their kids from a particular type of predator and they kept insisting I must be trolling. It’s like why make videos about creeps and pedos if your not going to care about keeping kids safe Edit: I want to add if you are a tea channel or what have you please begin including actual links and information to resources in the country which you broadcast especially if the topic is about women or children. Everyone decries nothing being done when there is a BIG thing they can do every time they make a video and they dont

[@Aloneerz]

I thought I was the only one that just didn't like turkey tom, and thought he was very edgy

[@cohengamertv6548]

What type of pedo

[@falcon_arkaig]

God I hate Turkey Tom. He's so annoyingly edgy and just gets a lot of things wrong. I sometimes get his videos in my recommended and I don't even notice until I click on the video and hear his voice. Immediate clicking off 😕

[@d.ragonology]

I watch tom sometimes as background noise, but especially on tom dark, he is so edgy 💀

[@Aloneerz]

@@falcon_arkaig Can't watch him without getting irritated

[@mparker123]

I view furrys the same way I view cosplayers, at the end of the day they are still human beings. Dressing up is just another way of expressing their passion and love for a fandom/character. Personally, I love cosplaying, and sometimes I see furrys at conventions. It’s great that they have a place where they can enjoy themselves and find other people who have similar interests!

[@AboveAverageDane]

I love how anti furries are always too stupid to make an actual sound and logical argument yet still think they're the smartest people in the room. They just have to be redditors.

[@DiretheAlphaProtogen]

I had to tell my mom this and I will say it here. Just because there are a few bad apples in the bunch doesn't mean that every single apple is the same way. So when anti-furs see a bad apple in the community, they jump on the train and then apply that bad apple to the rest of the good apples, making is look terrible when its just one person, not every single person in the fandom

[@valiantchris6456]

You're Gaddayum Right!!!

[@terminaldeity]

The whole phrase is "one bad apple spoils the bunch." If you have had people in your community, you need to get them out, not passively accept their existence within your community.

[@bootlegthemagician]

@@terminaldeity i find the phrase "one bad apple spoils the bunch" really stupid

[@FireGlitch]

​@@terminaldeityexactly

[@lefishe5845]

Unrelated but the original phrase is about collective rot, as single rotten apples really do speed up the decay of everything else. But the problem is the issues with furries is just applied to everything else aswell at equal proportions.

[@Scallycowell]

Ngl, opening a video about furries with an MLK quote is pretty wild lmao

[@slick_3349]

Exactly what I was thinking surprised not a lot of other people are mentioning it lol

[@Bowtiethesilly2023]

MLK is Hella based so it's pretty wild and based for him to mention lol-

[@sharamoonstudios3087]

With freedom comes a cost

[@greenedleaf2481]

Cost of literally a lot.No solution to solve furry fandom and rainbow people for these fetish stuffs.

[@sukonmakok]

​@greenedleaf2481 did you have a stroke typing that or am I suddenly dyslexic?

[@btc_rat]

The furry slippery slope trope 🙀😹

[@rickwong9049]

We stand strong. 😸

[@btc_rat]

@@rickwong9049 ♡

[@theveganduolingobird7349]

its weird that people see others dress up and draw little creatures with fur and get mad at that?? Do people know what minding their business means? Why dont they get mad at like, every cosplayer and artist who has a persona? if the argument is "guys look zoophiles" then can i REMIND YOU half the popular animes have literal loli/cp. It is literally the "anime is cringe and everyone who watches it is weird and mentally unstable" but reskinned to the new popular to hate title

[@AnarchyIsLove]

bruh can't confront capitalism so he gets mad at furries I swear

[@jones_y]

he is literally a furry

[@barytefox]

I needed a video about this because when i try and find furry content on KZbin all i find is disinformation and hate against the fandom

[@Saturndraws]

36:10 honestly i feel like this is one of the things that makes the community so unique, theres so many different perspectives to see and i like how most of us treat each other well dispite the differences in eachother

[@ww3196]

AGREED!!!

[@joseordaz655]

I feel like true Journalists who are passionate about what they do can actually do their job, and correctly. You are among those, you can see the work, the time, effort and passion in each video produced. You enjoy what you do, so everything you make has good qualities. Some people just want a quick buck, but they aren't passionate, which is how there are so many people who use shock value as the only way to get views. Some try to do it to make themselves look correct, and then miss the point of it all. - A militarist Furry (maybe) P.S: Spaggetios

[@MattStMarie-bm5sq]

You are mostly correct but one can be passionate about making a quick buck. But their passion is misplaced.

[@CommanderUesugi]

People outside of the fandom and their views on it make me incredibly sad. As the only furry in my friend group I feel like I'm always having to tear down stereotypes and assumptions that I don't even know how they get to. After being an artist on furry twitter for a couple years now, I have felt nothing but love and acceptance (with the exception of a couple protogens groveling for free art) on both of my accounts(normal art and tf art). Drawing and purchasing furry content is not necessarily something I do for attention or even just to make a living. Drawing my characters or characters I like or characters that belong to my friends and others, it's my passion and hobby. I purchased my first comm recently and I can't understate the joy I felt getting the email about it being finished, I hope I can make everyone feel like that when I draw for them and bring their characters to life through my art and my style. Also I have a bf irl and I'm a greyromantic and akoisexual and my relationship with them is wonderful because we understand what we both want and where we stand. We talk about everything and I think I can safely say that sex is not everything in a relationship and what matters most is communication with your partner.

[@zeal9442]

Unfortunately, furries have been the punching bag of the internet since it's inception in the early 90s and that will simply never change ever. It doesn't matter how much evidence you provide or whatever, there's always gonna be that *one* *person* in the fandom who sends it all back to square one again, giving the haters more fuel. We all hate it, but unfortunately, that's just how the Internet works. Drama is the lifeblood of the Internet and it feeds off of it. Humans naturally fear what they don't understand, and to cope with that, they must hate.

[@Manawolfman]

You gotta love a youtube journalist trying to call out the behaviors of a fandom for being attention whores for money when that is literally what you are as a youtube journalist. Jax's hypocrisy is staggering.

[@eightcoins4401]

He can't even be called a Journalist.

[@zeal9442]

@@eightcoins4401 Attention whore is a better description for Jax.

[@gerragotheallidile]

That's just how anti-furries are. They're all a bunch of attention-seeking hypocrites.

[@subsonicwave64]

"I'm afraid this is the worst anti community i seen yet-" "so your saying the anti-furs are blatantly full of bs-" "yes-" "the anti-furs mostly consisting of edgy 12 year old's that just got off of call of duty" "yes-" "its behaviors being compared to fascists and Nazis-" "a little bit yes-"

[@dandelion4523]

I dont hate or like the Furry fandom but they're thumbs up for me since they give people job, I mean yeah there's art commissions, but when they commission people for a suit, I think they help several people along the way (and more ways than we thought). They help designers, tailors, textile industry and more than we know of. I only hate the bad apples of the Furry community, and the unbearable ones, and the super weird ones.

[@TheroTheFox]

Ironically enough Anti-Furs seem to be the worse ones especially because a lot of them try to also spread anti semitic content with their logo even being very similar to the Nazi Germans. Not saying that their actions are similar in any way. Though they seem to have most of the same "ideals" how however you say it. This isn't every anti-fur but it does go with the loud minority

[@FlushDesert22]

You can pretty well tell how much morals these Drama Tube people have by how quickly they defended Wilbur Soot after he "apologized" for abusing Shubble/Shelby (his ex girlfriend) when even Wilbur's closest friends want nothing to do with him and are saying that Shelby's telling the truth.

[@BloodVixen]

The sad truth about the Furry fandom spectators is that it has evolved from surface level impressions to outright stigma in many cases. It's always reassuring when you actually find people who are willing to approach the subject with an open heart, as well as an open mind.

[@jasonjasso666]

How I see it, liberalism / centrism gives you the most money because you play to all sides, being more edgy and right wing is still viable but your public image is sorta tarnished, and KZbinrs actually sticking to leftist morals is a genuine diamond in the rough on KZbin.

[@endcaps1917]

Yeah with algorithms pretty much hiding any left leaning (actually left leaning I'm not referring to damn liberals/bidenites) it's nearly impossible to have that

[@slightlyrobin]

kinda rambly but i had a thought around the Lust section, with the topic of Long Distance Relationships gotta love jax attributing... normal long distance relationship issues to being a "furry's problem" like nah bruh thats just ur usual long distance shit, i bet being a furry would actually make it EASIER actually, bc conventions would give much more opportunities to organize a safe first meeting IRL for a long distance couple. (also uhhh asexual people exist, people who just don't like sex exist, and people who prioritize things other than sex in relationships exist. and jax claiming that sex is like, the #1 priority of a relationship that all couples should always strive for is very dismissive of people who maybe want romance without getting sex involved) edit: 27:40 as an artist myself, i have to ask if Jax thinks any other creators who have human personas are also greedy simply for drawing their characters or personas often. i personally draw my characters near daily, bc get this, I personally LIKE my characters and enjoy drawing them! it's not that deep, jax!

[@criidawg]

to all people who dont know who to "side" with the furries are just chilling, some are weird and some are terrible but every community has those sides and the anti furries make death threats, spam hatred, ive seen a video of a guy getting tackled (im pretty sure he was using crutches as well but that might be my brain mixing two videos), and lots of other things so...

[@neontheblue]

basically... Would you want to stay in a fandom of giant, living, breathing teddy bears (That have a low chance to be a creep) *Or* A fandom of downright unhinged and possibly dangerous group of people ? (I have yet seen one that doesnt *Bitch* about why furries are bad)

[@berkozen3499]

I sadly choose the anti 1. I understand furries however them being a Kids game (roblox idk if you can even say Kids game duo to grooming.) Is kinda not great sience i see the most weird furries there.

[@eightcoins4401]

@@berkozen3499 By that logic adults who play Minecraft are bad people because some people who play Minecraft are groomers

[@MIDNIGHT_W0LF125]

@@berkozen3499I hear "Roblox is a kids game" as an excuse all the time for adults playing the game, however even if you ignore the fact that, similar to Minecraft, Roblox is a game created for everyone. It was released in 2006 so anyone who played it since release are adults now. You could say that yes, the game is targeted towards younger audiences, but it isn't only for them.

[@berkozen3499]

@@MIDNIGHT_W0LF125 well i guess thats corrwct but people that played the game at 2006 (according to you i guess) are some ogs are probaly 17 years old or smth. I did a math. My big bro is 19 which he is borned in 2004. So people at 2004 is currently like either 17 to 20 idk. Thank you for your reply.

[@LBlueDust]

I'm an undiagnosed autistic working to get a proper diagnosis. Another point that I can make, because it's really bothering me, is that some of us simply struggle to communicate and talk to most people. The reason that most of my communication is online, is because I struggle holding a basic conversation with allistic people. Does that suddenly make me lazy or stupid? Does it make my communication being mostly online a problem? Heck no! It's specifically going to these tight nit online communities that I feel more at home and more like I can feel like a regular person. Instead of being forced into social situations which I can't handle.

[@veppotoast3507]

As somebody who is not a furry or even furry adjacent, anxiety sucks man. I want to be social, but I have a crippling fear of "saying the wrong thing" or "looking dumb". I think it's such a silly take to think somebody gets off to being nervous 24/7

[@calebtitler1847]

Honestly I’m glad you called out JAX, this dude has been bugging me for awhile, and I’d like to add he doesn’t take kindly to any form of criticism I mean one red flag he had was in his description he says I DON’T CARE IF YOU ARE A FURRY. JUST BECAUSE THIS VIDEO CRITICIZES THE ASPECTS OF THE FURRY FANDOM, IT DOES NOT MEAN I AM CRITICIZING YOU. DONT COMPLAIN ABOUT ME MAKING YOU UPSET. I DONT CARE. He says how he has furry friends but it’s basicly like, I’m not racist I have a black guy Just because you have furries as your friends doesn’t mean your opinions are immune to criticism He’s just super condescending Actually today before the person deleted their comment I saw a discussion with a person And jax who actually gave an honest critique on his channel in one of his community posts, his points were similar to this videos But jax basically invalidated the opinion and basically give him a you just don’t get it bro And claims the person is “misguided in many aspects” and tells him to listen to what he really has to say instead of listening to him to form an argument against him. The person noted how he basically invalidated his points and told him how just because it’s his opinion doesn’t mean we don’t have the right to disagree with it, the person then shared an comment from one of his videos basically giving valid criticism too. Jax completely doubles down claiming that “My response was realistic and you clearly don’t have the capacity to understand it” He refused to talk about any of the positives because he on,y wanted to point out the negatives as it’s “not my job to tell people how to improve their lives, that’s on them.” To an extent that’s true but if your making an essay video about the negatives of something suggesting improvements is very important. Also when the person mentions how condescending he is he says it’s just a perception based subjective view and even goes to say “ do you think I’m the president or something, I never pretend to offer a solution nor is one really possible I literally say explicitly that there isn’t a true solution.” He also claims the person wants him to show the good but criticizes him for not bringing in the bars all together ( the persons point was all communities have these issues) He basically blabs on waffling his speech to sound super intelligent He clearly shows how immature he is by saying “ being unable to take criticism is someone who writes off criticism and becomes angry with those who have something justifiably right to say. I don’t get mad at people who criticize my channel, I only reject criticism that is entirely useless, unrealistic, or in your case clearly derived from a place of mild hostility( bias, ironically)” (ironically the person was being very mature about the situation, yea they cam off a little harsh but they were pretty honest) (more ironically he’s getting mad at someone criticizing his channel and how he responds to criticism) Jax not only is ignorant but he’s also egotistical and clearly doesn’t want to hear the other side of the argument. If he responds to this videos, it’s not going to be a mature response from what I’ve seen of him.

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

I don't see your community caring all that much about horrible people, pat them on the back and say "move on" is what furries do, ignorance, yup so true.

[@eightcoins4401]

@@Nicocgboy_lindo You clearly dont know what youre talking about considering ive seen people full on exiled for being groomers or zoos in that community over and over

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

@@eightcoins4401 The only people i've seen being exiled are the bad people that get attention outside the furry fandom, so they basically need to get him outta there or it's a bad image to them, so they exile these people, but there's still plenty more, they do nothing because these groomers are only inside the furry fandom and people outside the fandom don't know that, that guy sucks, there's plenty of people that get what they deserve, but most are just sitting around and the furries, they don't give a damm.

[@maximeleninja4029]

​@@Nicocgboy_lindo I'm sorry but wizards do not exist, people cannot magically turn any bad apples back into peers, especially if they aren't aware of the actions that bad apple did. Also have you ever watched ClappedSeal or Lab Ratt's videos exposing tons of bad people in fandom? Or are you just there because this video somehow got into your recommandeds?

[@WertsAnimations]

look bro we cant just EXILE someone online unless we fucking dox them and call the police or something since theyre usually anonymous. furcons do ban people but like i dont understand how were supposed to do something. if we report them online they can just make an alt. change their ip. change their device. i dont really understand what were supposed to do. we cant just. split apart from these "groomers" since most of them are hidden. we dont know if a furry is a groomer or not instantly. i dont really see what you want US to do?

[@DE45309]

MF Open with an MLK quote, corny ball add Max striker and king of nothing to list💀

[@akhimahathir2004]

L

[@DE45309]

@@akhimahathir2004 I see in this comment is the only response to anything. Do you actually have a reason?

[@akhimahathir2004]

​@@DE45309L

[@vlk-frtz3296]

It is just a bunch of 14 year old kids who fail to realize that the fandom has existed for longer than them, and that all they are doing is pointless/useless and nothing new. It has happened before, over and over, nothing changing in the bigger picture after these waves go through.

[@YourAverageJames0]

Thank you for making this, most young anti-furries have no idea what they’re getting into because they’re influenced by people that hate furries.

[@alexibeshears7549]

Your comments on anxiety really hit. While I have not been officially diagnosed with GAD, I was in counselling for a while to address my anxious feelings. How you describe the feeling of having anxiety reminded me that I really should seek a diagnosis once I have the money to do so. I noticed that when trying to make friends, I always had more success when our "local worlds", as you described, naturally came together rather than me going out of my world to try and fit in. It was a very nice way to put it and I'd never heard it described in such a way. Beautifully said.

[@Mx_Rabbit]

Im diagnosed with GAD and social phobia and it is worth getting a diagnosis especially if you need accommodations for it in school or work.

[@wr3nche5]

yeahh, same. it really struck a chord with me. i have to take anti-anxiety meds just so it doesn't get into breakdown territory of overwhelming

[@NightmareLyra]

idk, to me his whole video seems like disguised homophobia in the exact same vein as the burned furs. He wouldn't focus so much on "those darn promiscious gay furries" otherwise

[@FireGlitch]

????

[@Local_user]

Ahh yes. It’s homophobia because his opinion differs with yours. Clasic

[@eightcoins4401]

Pretty much alot of people from early 2000s forums with anti furry culture admitted in post it was a socially acceptable way to disguise homophobia, with furries being a large group of mostly lgbt people deemed "weird" by the average person

[@0ctaviaPony]

Its fairly clear he started with the premise 'connect furries with the seven deadly sins' and built his arguments around that, judging by the 'uhhhh gluttony.... i got nothing, except vore i guess, but thats also lust'

[@amirnator456]

When I first watched Jax’s video, I thought it was somewhat insightful. Your video showed it was far from that. When I looked at his “The Transfur Addiction” videos, Jax more or less seemed reminiscent of sex-negative conservative figures like Jordan Peterson and the like, heavily chastising sexuality and porn addiction. In one of the videos, as I can recall, he stated that the r/furry subreddit having to mark its links as SFW was a sign that the fandom was porn addicted, as if he didn’t know that the modern furry subculture was partially, if not significantly influenced by comics (underground comix) heavily inspired by the counterculture movements of the 60’s and 70’s, which included, particularly, the sexual revolution, which sought to normalize homosexuality amongst other unconventional, but ethical sexual behaviors. (Yes I got this from Wikipedia, but still, Jax should have thought about this when researching the furry fandom) I don’t particularly like Changed, its creator, or the predators its inspired ROBLOX games attracted, and I most certainly believe that we should heavily condemn predatory behavior in the fandom, but I think it’s a bit ignorant to say that the fandom’s relation with sexuality should completely cease. Even if Jax doesn’t personally believe in sexual conservatism, his rhetoric demonstrates it.

[@Rubia376]

i agree with you in some point althought being a changed fan does make me disagree with you but again it's fines I just like changed ig but yeah

[@neontheblue]

it sucks that a community that is filled with very chill people gets bashed just because theres a feel bad apples *Among* them

[@TheroTheFox]

Among us [I'm sorry]

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

@@TheroTheFoxwhat the what

[@TheroTheFox]

@@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw the

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

@@TheroTheFox me when the bottom text

[@TheroTheFox]

@@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw agreed

[@CampionBun]

Good video. The thing is, I don't think these guys could give a shit less about nuance or diligence for this subject. They already have their biases settled toward the fandom and know that the algorithm and general audiences will support their video output regardless. They don't care about the fandom or those in it in any meaningful way, they just view it as a drama hive that they can generate endless content from because that guarantees hits. Ironically these creators will have the most to say about this fandom yet never have any experience with it personally. They don't know any furries themselves, they haven't attended conventions or meets, they aren't part of the daily discourse, so obviously they're the ones who will know everything about it right?

[@HarikaYorn]

I'm not finished yet, but the greed section is just... "However, as in the previous screenshots shown, there are a lot of people in this community that do nothing but plaster their character in every possible place to get their image out there. And while this wouldn't be a problem in the traditional sense, it becomes problematic when it clearly is out there to propagate their character and clearly to get a following, rather than a natural desire to have new material of your own character. (I know this guy makes his own art but he apparently saw a lot of growth in 2021 because of his horrid webcomics, so he's milking the shit out of it for attention)" ... You mean, being a content creator? Like, your complaint is they're a content creator? The exact same thing you're doing? Because I'm not you, but I'm pretty sure you would want a following for your stuff too; clicking the like and hitting the subscribe button and all that. I sure hope you've never asked for any of that, or have *ever* put your channel out there in any way! Don't want to be "seeking attention"!

[@WertsAnimations]

Preach!!!

[@Rubia376]

maybe word it idk more less "agressive" and making people mad and arguable it's not good but idk

[@mummifiedbutterfly]

THANK YOU FOR CALLING OUT TURKEY TOM'S SHITTY BEHAVIOR!! I used to watch his old commentary videos back in the day, but he's been an asshole like everyone else during his era (I'm referring to the 2016 Anti-SJW era). I remember him doing a video about a TF2 player who got accused of multiple things, but the one I'm going to be focusing on is him saying multiple slurs across numerous tweets. Turkey Tom, I kid you not, downplayed his actions with the excuse of "It wasn't directed at anybody". Even if you didn't call anybody those slurs, it's still not okay under any context to say those slurs. Edit; Don't peek into the comments section, it's become trench warfare.

[@user-de7co9qi9y]

Tom is is a pos and I hope he gets help

[@hungrypizzafox]

I’ve also felt iffy on his vids, some of them just seem to miss the point and just overall exist to take sides. Like that video on fat phobia with that kiwi woman. It just 100% feels like a leafy clone type shit, and that twitter thing just confirms that.

[@emilywenig4390]

​@@hungrypizzafoxEh. If you're referring to the Queer Kiwi, she's kinda nuts. She's very misandrist....

[@hungrypizzafox]

@@emilywenig4390 Really? I could not tell from my point of view. But either way, her point was completely twisted by Tom.

[@hungrypizzafox]

@@emilywenig4390 Yeah sorry, that's hard to believe when the only people saying that is the conservatives. She might come off anti men, but she never out right said she hated men or implied it. Although I'd like to see if you have anything for me so I could know where your coming from.

[@maydoesgamingxd6907]

I just wana make it this clear, jax is not an anti-furry not even close, ive watched his videos and I can assure yall he isn't, he also made a community post about Clapped's video which in my opinion is pretty mature and respecting since he didn't take it personally

[@HARRAWISH]

"furry community is doomed here's why" (shows some 3 year old instance of a member that did something terrible and got called out and cancelled for it) im not talking about jax im just doing a parody of a average video about furries

[@Enigmatic.Prismatic]

So im someone who genuinely has no idea if they still consider themselves a furry or not but ive noticed that alot of anti-furs actively choose to ignore the fact that ALL fandoms and communities have their bad apples, go crazy when theres a few bad furs that immediately get rejected from the fandom but completely ignore people who've done shit and/or possibly worse in other fandoms The idea of furries simply being people who enjoy anthropomorphic animal characters(though its completely up to them whether or not they consider themselves one) easily gets spun into shit it seems But that's just what I've seen

[@nobodynobody267]

Not a furry by any means but the last eight years now I had to hear this dumbass argument about furries posting their stuff everywhere and this is untrue, the following information is from a certain clover website I stopped visiting a long time ago however this can be extrapolated to other websites like forums, in 2008 this was somewhat true the internet was younger than it is today and you could see furries posting their stuff in places where wasn't warranted, though it wasn't only furries, "wrong thread lurk moar" is what we used to say, also rules for internet etiquette weren't as clear as they today either. Then had a massive flame war started, a lot of "Trolling" happened on both sides and by the end we shook hands and arrived to the pact, furries post furry stuff on their side of the internet and non furries don't go into furry spaces and do "Trolling" posts. Except for very specific cases this pact was honored to this day. I can feel seventeen year old me rolling in their grave for what I'm about to say but furries are like the rest of us.

[@Rubia376]

lol

[@Good_Praxis]

I've had gotten so sick of seeing all the regurgitated call-out/drama/whatever videos on the fandom I had seen in my recommendations in the last couple months. It feels like a breath of fresh air to actually push against it. Also very nicely calling out the inherent plurality of the fandom, I think about that a lot but I've been struggling to find the word to summarize it properly. Plurality is a good fit.

[@EnderCorePL]

He mentions Communists, Socialists, Anarchists and Nazis as if the first three weren't all left-wing ideologies, more often than not working together against the oppressive systems. I'm a socialist and though I have my disagreements with anarchists and communists I'm open to work together and hear out their ideas. Similar consensus exists in majority of leftist spaces. Though of course there are people who treat politics like a team sport or faith, where slightest disagreement sets them off, but such people aren't perceived very well.

[@thorinbrokenshield-smaug4004]

It’s probably because he has the media literacy of a rock and thinks that since the Nazi name means national socialist and doesn’t bother to notice that actual socialists and communists were put in prisons (this shit annoys me so much as another socialist)

[@eightcoins4401]

Honestly, the issue is that in America self declared "conservatives" are usually far right reactionaries. This drives a massive wedge into any political disagreement. Because instead of "X is the best economic system" vs "Y is the best economic system" it becomes about if people are even allowed to exist and have human rights for simply not fitting social norms. (i.e Neurodivergent people, LGBT people, other religions). This ends up normalizing actual WWII nazi views as just "mildly rightwing". Considering thats where the idea of Daseinsberechtigung comes form. In Europe its usually very easy to just politiely disagree with conservatives since they arent for openly persecuting groups of people for simply being different. Considering those conservatives are literally jsut *moderately* rightwing.

[@EnderCorePL]

@@eightcoins4401 Ayup, I may add to that last bit. In Poland, a fairly right-wing/centre-right country waving a Nazi flag or openly promoting fascism will get you called cops on at best and get well deserved wpierdol at worst.

[@JesseDagger]

As someone who was a furry when very young, I wanna give one thing from someone who was ACTUALLY a furry. I used to play this furry Roblox game named furana (don’t harass them or message them, the mod team was truly kind and actually did care and do their jobs very quickly.) and there were a lot of creeps, but one thing, maybe a few furries made a few off comments but most of them were just teens being teens and such, nobody ever made actual comments at me, unless it was a furry hater joining the game to be as vile as fucking possible, I’ve seen slurs bypassed, I’ve seen scam KZbin streams spammed, I’ve seen 18+ DISGUISE THEMSELVES AS FURRIES TO THEN ERP to me. Majority of the time, it was always people who weren’t ever furries and HATED them with full passion who were the creeps to me. And before I realized this I was a furry hater because of how bad the game was for young me. And as a furry hater, I couldn’t find my place anywhere in the community cause I just didn’t like creeps, and in the anti furry community, they were if not all, majority hated gay people, trans people, anyone not Christian, they were horrible and the kind of mold that breeds in 4chan. So it wasn’t safe for me as a trans and gay guy to stay there, so I stayed away from hating furries at all. And then when I got out of that circle jerk I got to realize, oh! Furry haters are the vile ones.

[@Cannonhed1_0]

Cancer cells try to appear to be normal cells, and the body can't tell which cells are the bad ones until it's too late

[@benjaminmaher8896]

I barely spend time on youtube or any social media outlet anymore so I can sleep with my brain free of worries or drama.

[@Cellphoneray]

I respect that

[@AquatexZ]

This is your first video I have ever watched, This video was done masterfully, and every point was done masterfully on the whole idea of Representing misinformation in journalism and providing the examples pointing out this video's painful wrongs. I was a furry from 2012-2016, I lived through trauma, (now diagnosed) Depression, ASD (Acute Stress Disorder) Extreme Social Anxiety, and more, as well as going through some of the darkest years of my life, I wanted out of the trauma, of the pain, but I met so many amazing people, so many people that I'm STILL friends with to this day. I was 11-16 through my years as a furry, I was never shown porn when I was a furry by furries, but by anime fans, skype raids, and 2 people that don't deserve me to name them or bring them up (and neither were furries, either.) I took the expression over the years, decided I wanted to become a writer, once as a coping mechanism, but now I'm a freelance author writing my first story series, I'm writing commissions for people, I'm more expressive than I've ever been in my lifetime, I was put on a podium, holstered by kind people online who were furries, they were so kind to me, they were willing to help me come out of my shell, when I was younger, when I was older, and who I am now. I'm 23 now, within a month of starting the writing side of the series. The amount of happiness that I feel nowadays, despite the pains of mental illness, and the suffocating trauma that I feel. Furries have helped me, have pushed me to be the best person I've ever been, and we'll all continue to grow. I still consume furry art, get art drawn of my characters, because I'm now really fantasy biased, I love dragons, I love ravens, I adore mythology, and the whole idea of expression with story building and world-building. I have so many people behind my back, and I've done more because of the good furries have done for me, I'm happier than when I was in 2012-2017, I am more hopeful to break out of my suffocating guise of anxiety, . I hope people see my comment, please do not be rude to furries, be kind, do your research and go off the realm of individuality instead of generalizing everything. Confirmation Bias and Negativity bias is bad, the consumer and the people who you're covering are hurt by this. I will be subscribing. 10/10 video.

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

I'm kinda unconfortable realising this weird trend of most furries having problems like trauma and depression, why because i'm a idiot? nope, it's because with vunerable people entering the community, the bad actors can take advantage of this, and furries don't adress these problems, why? either they are bad actors or they don't care really.

[@oranges369]

@@Nicocgboy_lindo Mentally unwell people entering a fandom is a problem to be addressed? Not the best phrasing there... Also every community has bad actors, its literally impossible to get rid of them all and only when an individual is revealed to take advantage of others is when they're able to be removed.

[@KlaifTheBee]

[15:15] That's true, I've been on twitter for a while, and in LITERALLY 2 weeks of scrolling 2-3 hours a day I don't remember finding a single piece of pornography. But we all know that it fully depends on algorithms, and the way Jax did that is by following and unfollowing pornographic account. Also all you should've said about his videos: they're non sequitur. That's it.

[@Nicocgboy_lindo]

I'm not really a twitter guy but i don't think twitter would recommend people porn when they just created an account cuz it's a bad inpression, and he just typed "furry" on twitter, most intances where i saw porn without even using my twitter account all that much, i was just scrolling, did not type anything, why? because they don't really tag furry in these NSFW posts.

[@Sly_Changeling]

dude just said something to the effect of "video games are doomed" like huh is there some kind of doomsday event??? wha?

[@MelonSiggi]

Whoever says that "furries identify as animals" are clearly ignorant to the fact that humans / homosapiens are ALSO animals. Just because we have intelligence and self-awareness doesn't mean that we're not animals.

[@laggedout7964]

In my opinion both sides are stupid in their own stupid ways

[@Z_LV7]

this is real

[@Rubia376]

that kinda generalizing both sides which this video try to not do at least trying to but okay

[@Nickelbag610]

Honestly I don't have a problem with most furries individually. But the problem I do have is how with the Kero stuff everyone in the fandom just seemed to ignore alot of their other higher up that were in zoo ring. These people run the conventions, popular sites, make documantarietcies. Alot of the higher ups are still in power and furries still use their website and pay for their conventions. They also have this attitude of "it makes the fandom look bad" which could contribute to this. I don't think most furries would cheer on a zoo but with this hush hush attitude and or people just not knowing is a problem. And a dangerous one at that because kids and people with learning disabilities are a huge part of the fandom. And letting these people run your community will always make it an unsafe place overall.

[@eightcoins4401]

You have to keep in mind for the average person its pretty impossible to do anything agains tthe people higher up due to how much parasocial clout they have.

[@Nickelbag610]

@@eightcoins4401 They can spread the word and not cover for animal abusers. They could not pay for their conventions and pay for their websites. The furry fandom isn't a government no one of forcing you to go to a convention or use furry sites. These people rely completely on you guys as the fans to support them.

[@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw]

@@Nickelbag610the good news is the furry fandom usually treats zøøphiles and other weirdos as outcasts

[@Nickelbag610]

@@LoganProbablynot-ef1tw I want to believe that and hope it's getting better but Archive the Wolf listed the names of high ranking zoophiles in your community that have been in the fandom for years, are bigger names, some where even known zoos. Yet not much happened to them over the years. They also showed examples of how older furries/ the older furry fandom would actively try and slide these indents under the rug for the benefit of the fandom's name.

[@xavierbromius]

cool video but why are you dressed like a UK drill rapper

[@krism.6598]

Honestly, furries have been the punching bag of the internet for decades at this point, and that’s not going to change. You can bring up all the statistics, arguements, and evidence you want, but there’s always going to be one Kero the Wolf that comes along and takes it all back to square one. It’s a little sad, but that’s the way the internet works.

[@purplepedantry]

Well, it was the same for people of colour, gays, & lesbians. Sure, the odd hate group or 'joke' is thrown around, but it's like the aftermath of a war, simple ruffians trying to gain back territory they lost years ago. Trans people are on their way to the same place, alongside the neurodivergent. The time will come for the cartoon-crazed adults, the c and the furries. Many of these groups overlap, but they each have their own battles which will eventually win. Entropy is inevitable. Keeping things the exact same as one group wishes is impossible, and progress will march on, no matter how many times it is tripped by the rocks these anti-furs call their brains.

[@FireGlitch]

​@@purplepedantrywhat the hell is wrong with you? Just because you got mocked on the internet doesn't mean that you are slightly comparable to people who actually been discriminated against. Jesus Christ...

[@lefishe5845]

The culture mixing pot will mix and there is no stopping that. You'll fight hard and long and you will grow old but it will be all for not. Your children will fall for children with different beliefs and honestly I like how inevitable it feels. We'll be at peace one day.

[@chiangkai-shrek1575]

​@@lefishe5845Maybe it's just the cynic in me, but bigotry can and does survive even to this day. So I find it hard to believe that the world will slowly become more accepting simply through the passage of time. We should try to actively fight back against hate instead of passively hoping for things to change.

[@lolzonezzzz]

@@chiangkai-shrek1575 but it has been almost 20+ years

[@FuckingSatan]

I’m not a furry and I don’t know any furries personally so I was always confused by it. But hearing you say furries don’t actually identify as an animal they portray, it’s now beginning to make WAY more sense to me now

[@thatonebackgroundcharacter2194]

Well hey, it's nice that you can understand better! :D

[@vazio4540]

for me furry are just cosplay

[@LilacMonarch]

Saying furry means you identify as an animal is like saying cosplay means you identify as a fictional character

[@sqrt7956]

(For reference, those who identify as animals are called Therians, those who identify as anything non-human are called Otherkin)