Protein Amount, Quality and Timing - with Dr. Donald Layman | The Proof Podcast EP 236

[@matthews9852]

Just discovered your Channel. Totally hooked. As a long term Attia, Huberman & Rhonda Patrick listener, your interviews are exceptional Simon. Your interviews are captivating. Keep it up !!!

[@dave3gan]

Totally agree, relaxed format that lets the guests speak is brilliant. Also neutral stance

[@lighthealerastrid1465]

Agreed! Very refreshing approach.

[@sharonp.6505]

Wow!!! This is so excellent and timely for me. I'm a very fit and active 65 year old woman. I've been a whole food vegan for about 15 years. I've been very careful to monitor my protein intake to ensure that I stay at least at 70g daily (mainly from legumes, soy and higher protein grains). In the past 4 or 5 years, I've noticed my once very muscular quads, glutes and hamstrings have started shrinking dramatically. My blood glucose has started creeping up as well. My weight training has been consistent during this time. My arms and shoulders were starting to shrink as well. I was terrified that I would start looking like Chef AF, Pam Popper, Dr. Mcdougal or many of the other proponents of strict vegan diets. I didn't want to start supplementing with highly processed plant protein powders. I made the decision to switch to a whole food, low sugar, plant-strong omnivore pattern with a slightly higher amount of total protein and the results have been astounding! I'm actually gaining muscle again! Thank you so much for this very helpful and non-biased deep dive into protein and the importance of leucine for seniors to prevent age related sarcopenia and osteopenia!!! Once again...the Mediterranean Diet comes out on top. Bonus....my blood sugar has dropped and stabilized as well.

[@heidizee5144]

I admit to being very curious about your approach, as I’m in a similar position (59 yr old very active female, WFPB for 13 years, lots of resistance training since my early 20s, but noticing the same muscle loss and glucose rise that you mentioned). T Colin Campbell’s book “Whole” made a big impression on me so although I do use vegan protein powder to reach my meal targets of 30-40g protein, along with a BCAA powder, I’m conflicted about using isolates to optimize my health. I would love to see Simon address this topic! Thank you for sharing your experience.

[@heidizee5144]

One more thought on your observations, Sharon P; my husband (74, very active, lots of resistance training, WFPB for 13 years after receiving diagnosis of heart disease, which totally reversed after a couple of years plant-based) and I have talked a lot lately about how several of the “older” WFPB doctors and personalities are not looking good. No muscle tone, frail, etc. This is the antithesis of what we’re working for. So again, thanks for sharing your story, and I’d love to hear more about how and what you added “omnivore-wise”that’s made a positive difference for you, as well as how that’s impacted your TC, LDL, etc. Simon, I’m guessing many of your viewers are in our age category and would love a deeper dive on this topic. Your discussion with Don Layman was excellent; I’ve come to regard you as my #1 source for unbiased, deeply thoughtful discourse with the experts. Thank you very much!

[@heidizee5144]

And…one more thought…in distilling the message of Sharon’s story, I think it comes down to whether as a WFPB eater, you feel that animal protein is less dangerous/more advantageous than isolated plant-based protein powders and BCAAs in helping a plant-based, older person obtain the required amount of protein and leucine to achieve MPS. Simon, as a thankfully non-dogmatic interviewer in this space, this issue is one I’d love to learn more about, if there even is any research or theory about this trade off. Many thanks again🙏🏻!!

[@narelled159]

@@heidizee5144 May I ask what vegan protein powder you use? I saw a yoga session Chef AJ did when I was a paid member of her group and while she looked quite thin (not meant in a derogatory way at all) she was incredibly flexible and seemed quite strong.

[@heidizee5144]

@@narelled159 I learned a lot from Chef AJ; she’s done hero’s work for women looking to lose weight while gaining the health they deserve. She’s admitted to not liking to lift weights, but she does love her spin bike and yoga! I really like LoveComplement protein powders, and will occasionally use Garden of Life SPORT organic WFPB protein powder (it has stevia, so I don’t use it often). Hope that helps!

[@BigPictureYT]

Don Layman is a breath of fresh air. He really knows the details of the science. I am learning so much. Thanks for having him on your show.

[@semaaral2498]

Same here🙏💊

[@kathya1956]

He has no book to sell?

[@sparkleinco2035]

You have hit the nail on the head. As a 81 yr old woman I think how lovely to be plant based but if I see some chicken I go crazy for it and when I eat it I feel satisfied and good. I just cant survive without some animal protein like eggs, pouktry or fish. I am not overwieght.

[@mureenmuriah2679]

This presentation get listed in my category "Best"!! This information is crucial for those of us who are entering into seniority life within a deminishing body that is losing height and muscle from an already minimized structure.

[@patrickvanmeter2922]

Fascinating conversation. 81 year old athlete here. The questions and the answers are perfect IMO. A huge amount of information for this old man to assimilate. I accept the challenge and appreciate the opportunity. Thank you so much.

[@Gamvrelis]

Simon, for our benefit you dug deeply into it with Dr. Layman, and kept it all very respectful - thank you.

[@lucvandermeeren]

Wow!! I'm simply blown away by this interview. Amazing! So much useful evidence-based information. The quality of the questioning and the depth of the responses are a real treasure. Before this interview, I didn't know what to do: Should I limit my protein intake (especially from animal sources) to increase my longevity or do I eat more protein to increase my muscle mass? Now I know the answer: To have both good muscle mass and a long healthspan, I should eat unprocessed, natural foods, do resistance and aerobic exercise and eat a higher protein diet around 1.5 grams per kg lean body mass. I'll also do 16:8 time restricted eating. Thanks Don!!

[@bhartishyam8902]

40:34

[@DennisNowland]

I don't know how my grandma got to 98 without all this wonderful knowledge. Well, actually I do.

[@stephenhumphries8523]

Fantastic talk Simon you interviewed Dr Layman very well with well thought out questions

[@graememudie7921]

I have been doing Keto for 2 years and started carnivore on March 17th 2023. I am feeling absolutely amazing. Joint pains are gone, and I no longer need to go to the chiropractor. Indigestion is gone as well. I started doing press-ups, and in the first week, I did 35 per day, which was 5 more than I usually do. I have steadily increased the number every day and did 70 a few days ago! I can't believe it! What I added was boron, which was suggested by one of the many doctors I follow on KZbin. That took it to another level. I am 67 years young and will never eat vegetables again. No carbs, absolutely no carbs. I have not put sugar in my coffee or tea for at least 40 years. Another effect of this diet is that the plaque on my teeth has completely gone. After about a week, I could feel it coming off, a very strange sensation. Additionally, I no longer have bleeding gums. I only take thyroxine for my underactive thyroid. I hope to get off of it over the next year on this diet

[@michaelhoile1369]

Well done, like the way you keep the questions rolling and you also speak up when you have a point to make or clarify.....can hardly wait for more. Cheers 👍

[@michaelhoile1369]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill you did very well....I could tell you were holding back....can't push back to hard....you kept it on the rails....great composer 👌

[@niviensaleh9688]

I’m a whole-foods-plant-based eater with questions about how much protein we should ingest at what stage in our lives and whether timing and protein source matter. This was super-interesting information. Thank you!

[@stx7389]

Just get 100g/day and don't worry

[@kateandalan1721]

Very interesting interview - you did a great job Simon. The whole protein series is excellent. But Layman's comments about Longo's research undermine his (Layman's) credibility. His suggestion that Longo's theories about longevity and diet are just based on a few fat mouse studies is wide of the mark, as presumably your interviews with Longo will show. Also, Layman's suggestion that Longo's NHanes epidemiology paper did not control for basic things like total calories and BMI is just silly - it was published in Cell Metabolism! Of course he controlled for those things and many other things besides, and he did not "manipulate" the data to find an effect, he found an interaction with age - perfectly reasonable to look for this, and plausible to find it. But again, I think it is fantastic that you are doing these interviews with scientists on both sides of the protein debate, and your even-handed interviewing style and good questions make these very useful and interesting. Keep up the good work!

[@hassounroula9346]

wooooooo pleaseeee bring on the next 2 episodes, I can't wait for Dr Valter Longo he is the best!

[@benitaenzor7213]

58 year old woman who has always wanted to become plant based permanently. My issues arise when I hear many protein experts speaking of the importance of a high animal based diet to avoid Sarcopenia. I am very active and have always trained with weights however I do not want to jeopardize my strength as I continue to age. I came away from this just as confused! Who do you believe? Looking forward to your insight Simon.

[@eugeniebreida1583]

Love Layman's no bs approach to an healthy diet versus the trash that yanks/aussies eat. He does not dwell on saturated fat, in fact he dismisses this as being an issue/negative part of a healthy diet. And heads back to the calorie deficit issue/burning the calories that come in. I couldn't agree with him more . . . he won't let Simon push him around on this, which I also appreciate. Look at the guy, he's the perfect age to be 100 percent concerned as to protein intake - and he's got decades of research behind him. Don't blame him for what people on this channel are deciding is a lambasting of a younger researcher, again I appreciate his straight up responses and descriptions. Especially of the hierarchy of funding/publishing/science/bias. This relieves my mind, as a 64 yr old underweight type, who truly needs to eat dense calories in order to get what I need. (I try to limit carbs, and do keep higher protein and moderate fats, 'healthy' fats for me are grassfed meat renderings, olive oil, mct oil, egg yolks etc) Thanks very much, Simon, for this lengthy and important interview, reminding me AGAIN of the importance of protein meals in the AM's, especially as I go further over the hill. Need to get on it!

[@eugeniebreida1583]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I look forward to moving on to the issues of 'healthy fats', which will likely tread on the sacred cow of LDL's, no? : ). We need to get to the bottom of decades of 'associations' - with most science based on male dieting-eating-visceral fat distribution and /or cardio vascular responses (most interested in the endothelium health). I know it's hard for you to put yourself in the seat of females/eldsters/lean/frail - but it would be SO helpful to me/us if you could take five minutes in each interview to inquire after tips on our behalf. MUCH appreciated!

[@eugeniebreida1583]

PS: NOT so very athletic/active anymore due to inflammatory arthritis. There are many of us, 2/3's are female . . . THANKS : )

[@veniqer]

​@@eugeniebreida1583 Many carnivores see a massive reduction in arthritis. Please look up Dr Ken Berry and Dr Judy Cho.

[@theslacker]

longevity runs in my family. but they all thrived on veggies and potatoes, yogurt, some eggs and small amounts of cheese. meat fish and poultry were rare. if i tell my grandmother which is 85 now to chug some protein powder every day, she would beat the hell out of me. by the way, she lives alone in very good health for a 85 old woman. another thing to mention is she goes to restaurant maybe 3 times a year. 99% of what she eats is made by her, including baked goods and sweets.

[@wocket42]

Interesting. What's her seed oil consumption over the last few decades?

[@theslacker]

@@wocket42 i live in romania. the main seed oil used here is sunflower oil. and it's refined. my parents use around 2 litres a month for 2 persons, my grandma uses 1 litre in about 2 months. me plus wife and kid, we use 2 litres in 3 months, of which one litre sunflower and 1 litre extra virgin olive oil. i strongly believe oil should be used in moderation, no matter what kind. and i have no problem with seed oils, since polyunsaturated fats lower ldl. and i believe there's no strong study about oil and inflammation or other problems. and i repeat, used in moderation. every doctor here says you have to be parsimonious in this regard

[@Kitiwake]

How does she eat the sweets with no teeth?

[@Kitiwake]

​@@theslackermoderation is meaningless, with respect. Seed oil isn't it obvious?.. When did people use seed oil in human history?

[@theslacker]

@@Kitiwake funny indeed. well, turns out she has almost all of her teeth in good shape. i'm 43 and i already have parodontitis, but that's because of 23 years of smoking

[@MsGrannyfrog]

WOW. I am still catching up on your podcasts. 67 year old woman. Really trying to do what I can to maintain increase muscle mass because of bone density issues and with husband who has had too much time in bed due to several surgeries, cardiovascular disease, and his muscle loss. I want to scream "damage control on aisle 3". I am so grateful for your podcasts bringing this kind of information. I am now shopping the the best protein powders. Most "shakes" have too much sugar or other garbage added..I don't have room for those extra calories and certainly not the other junk. I can slug it down without the sweet-just mix it in with my non fat kefir! I do have some already but trying to optimize additional protein. It is absolutely TRUE. The calories I need to maintain weight are so so so much lower than when I was younger no matter how much I move (and I get that now as well).

[@patriciagriffin1505]

Hi just a suggestion I use a protein powder from Metagenics.. it has twice any of Leucine

[@semaaral2498]

Hi, My Story far less same with same age & My life style is far less smiler. Will you pls tell me which brand is safe. On this protein powder's. I know Dr Sinclair told us to check on GMP & 3rd party tested products💊.. Since Then I follow that rule. Looking forward to hear from you. God Bless🙏 Love from London🌹🌺

[@margarettapayson7651]

argh...I do find this all frustrating....I very much want to be 100%plant based, I eat a super healthy diet of whole foods, mostly plants. I eat some yogurt and occasional fish but feel not so good ethically about even that small amount. But I am 61 and he is correct that its hard to get the amount of protein I am aiming for (about 1.5 to 1.8 per kg) without a lot of calories when Im eating totally plant based. I do lift weights, 4x per week, and I walk and hike and do some rowing. But as a 61 year old woman it just gets harder to keep myself at the healthy weight I want to maintain...the frustrating part is ALL the different opinions/views....I listen to one person and Im convinced Im fine to eat a bit lower protein, then I listen to someone else and it all shifts. BUT, thank you anyway...I love your podcasts, listen to all of them. Your work and ethics are top notch.

[@waynerichardson1051]

What's with all the Buts?!!

[@southerngrandma4353]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I enjoy watching your videos and different points of view, but I’ve known several people from different families that lived well into their 90’s. Not a single one of them did resistance training, although they did stay active doing normal everyday things like housework, etc and they didn’t sit a lot. They also ate 3 Small but balanced meals a day including meat, veggies, and carbs. They were all healthy, not overweight and active until a few weeks before they passed at ages near 100. Most did Not take supplements

[@denisesophie8572]

Look nobody can be 100% plant based. Lots of little critters get killed for your precious plant based diet so probably best not eat anything so you don’t feel “guilty” problem solved 🤦‍♀️

[@k.h.6991]

I would think that a decent portion of tofu daily would get you to your protein level quite easily.

[@RXP91]

New to your pod, appreciate you bringing real scientists in the field to our ears❤

[@aniluapg]

Very valuable content, great questions. Thank you for this amazing podcast!

[@kornisonkiseli3248]

Wonderful guest, I never saw this much quality information in a single video. Fantastic stuff.

[@amycaruthers7858]

Being a 77 year old female ,,5’ 1” who exercises daily, I’d love to know how much protein I should eat a day? Also, my 73 year old husband who is 6’3”. How much protein should each of us eat per day? Can someone translate this talk for us?

[@southerngrandma4353]

I would love to know the answer to that question too! I’m also 77 about 5’4” now and 112 lbs. I shrunk a couple of inches because of osteoporosis. I’m a little underweight according to my doctor.

[@kst157]

First class! World class! Amazing quality & eye opening, knowledgeable and free flowing discussion. Thank you both! 👍👍 P.S. Can’t wait for your Valter Longo interviews & then *your all important summary Simon of all the experts you’ve interviewed as *you’ll put it expertly in the context of all the variables I care about - amazing work Simon & multiple guests.

[@terrytannatt2656]

KST. Good luck with Longo. I quit listening to Longo Long-ago. He has too much bias & ego or money in the race. He seems to preach low protein cuz of cancer & whatever other vegan science they misrepresent. Personally I don't hate the guy just find him unconvincing & untrustworthy when comparing him to high protein advocats like Dr. Ted Naiman, Dr. Gabrielle Lyon & others who show real results & not longevity voo-doo. Blessing & peace be with you.

[@kst157]

@@terrytannatt2656 Free thought, varied ideas and open discussion are what I treasure and not closing down of views. Real progress is made when ideas are raised and argued in a professional way - Simon is a master and able to link in all the variety out there and curate in a way that matches what I’m looking for. Can’t wait to hear Dr. Longo and all of Simon’s guests and I have my own views of the all the experts and they all raise important points which I’m able put into context. This expert series format on a key topic is outstanding and all of the guests and Simon’s intelligent probing should be applauded. 👏👍

[@TheIgnacio777]

You ask the best way compared to the last 2 interviews w Layman from others. Nice job!!!

[@peterz53]

1h7m low vs high protein in longevity. Thanks for trying to unravel this issue. I also found the CR vs Fasting study and protein in aging studies out of the Lamming lab compelling. Both recent studies. There is also work from Jay Mitchell's lab on protein restriction compelling (he has since passed). I think there has been some effort to unravel the CR vs fasting and the protein issue. The Lamming lab seemed to identify isoleucine, but not leucine or methionine, as a possible culprit in aging. Dr. Layman is right, context matters. BTW, Longo eats primarily a plant based diet, with some fish. Seems to me that we should track lean body mass as we age and bump up exercise, if we are able, and protein and try to keep insulin very low (something that is not normally tracked).

[@theironforce3000]

Excellent interview with one of the highest minds of this important and demonized topic . Dr. Layman is a gem in this industry. I thank Layne Norton and Dr. Gabriel Lion for name dropping him years ago in past interviews. Well done. Always can learn more from him .

[@carolesteinberg7463]

I’m 63 and a body builder I’m a small woman 5’5” 115lbs I also run. I eat 120-150 gr animal protein a day. I end up about 1800-2200 cals a day. I do eat veggies fats and carbs (cereal, bread sweet potatoes fruit)too. I’m about 15-16% bf off season I think without the protien I couldn’t lift my weight and build muscle at this age. My vegan friends have way less strength and carry a lot more body fat. Similar age.

[@jasonmoran9099]

You have to ask if those friends are also bodybuilders, though. If you weren't interested in lifting and dedicated to bodybuilding, you wouldn't have the muscle you have or be as lean as you are, right? Diet isn't the only difference between you and your friends. Plus, there are vegan bodybuilders. If anything goes wrong with a vegan or they are not perfect, their diet is blamed, which is comical when you consider all the other factors. 80% of the American population is overweight, and heart disease and diabetes are very common. Yet only 3-5% of the population is vegan. So clearly, these aren't issues caused by a vegan diet.

[@arnaldorodriguez872]

Just out of curiosity, do you on the vegan diet need to take supplements??

[@Deffine]

@wendywitchner6790 You killed a lot more beings as a vegetarian eating commercial eggs than someone just eating cow meat.

[@jellybeanvinkler4878]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I am impressed with many vegans who maintain a muscular physique. I do wonder about supplentation, though, too. And since most are young, I will see in 20 or 30 years (if I'm still around) if it holds the same.

[@citizenjournalist2533]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm curious, Simon, have you lost blood every month for decades or conceived, carried, birthed and nursed one or more other humans? Also, do your meat eating friends consume ultra-processed crap full of plant-based seed oils and sugar? Finally, speaking of "supported by the literature", please direct me to the long term studies looking at the outcome of raising a human from in utero on a diet devoid of animal sourced foods. Thank you in advance.

[@blackmarketarmy]

Its awesome you have the pop ups to show relevant studies during the discussion

[@blackmarketarmy]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill yea keep up the good work, I've been checking your stuff out ever since I saw you on Rich Roll's podcast👍

[@barrycasey9144]

Dr Laymans recommendations don't seem to pass Dr Longo's 5 pillar common sense approach overall that I ascribe to, but in context actually do somewhat fit the healthy pescatarian diet Dr Longo recommends until older age. Looking forward to your discussion with Dr Longo, thanks Simon!

[@elliri3012]

I really appreciate your fact checks during the conversation. I look forward to your other broadcasts.

[@wadesimpson-e8p]

Get bart kay on for a real debate

[@frankarcobello3149]

I love listening to Dr. Layman talk, keep telling like it is.

[@StephenMarkTurner]

I am 66, so I do try for a little more protein. I find the higher end of the recommendations a bit hard to reach without a supplement. I am aiming for 1.2, probably hit 1.0 or so. If I use fat free mass, those numbers become 1.4 and 1.2. I am not big, those numbers work out to about 70 to 85 grams. And I resistance train regularly.

[@TLHawco]

Thank you so much Simon for having Dr. Layman on and giving us such great health information. I know that this video was done 9 months ago, but the information is timeless! For many years, I’ve stayed pretty healthy by eating a well-balanced diet. I didn’t regularly work out per se, but my Massage business for almost 30 years kept me in relatively good shape Then Covid happened and my work was shut down. At that point, I decided that being 66 years old, I would retire. As much as I am loving retirement, it seems that my muscles decided to retire as well😄. My body composition really changed and not for the better! I started listening to podcasts where different health experts shared their knowledge and it has helped immensely! It has been a whole retraining of my brain. I changed my diet where protein is the star of the show and I am now exercising 5 to 6 days a week with resistance training, and some cardio. I also take, amino acids and creatine. I have learned so much through podcasts like yours and I really feel better now at 68 almost 69 then I have for years. By eating a good amount of protein daily, I have managed to rebuild my muscles, I believe, even stronger than before! I had been diagnosed with osteoporosis about 6 years ago and I just had a dexa scan done and the specialist told me to continue doing what I am doing! Such great news especially since they say that after 65 we are targeted to lose 1% bone mass per year. I say, not on my watch🙂 Not only have I noticed a change in my body, but I also have noticed that I have far more mental clarity as well. Simon, thank you for the amazing work that you do and together we can make this world a better home for everyone Theresa🙏❤️

[@lornarutter9179]

Great convetsation. Simon, I appreciate the quality of your questions.

[@veniqer]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm a die-hard carnivore and I, too, love that you ask such good questions.

[@cathleensmith4717]

Thank you Mr. Hill thank you Doctor! I'll be feeding on this meal for years. I think y'all uncovered more EAA's in the form of getting to the meat of human nutrition.😊 God bless you.

[@yropez]

I was hoping that you’d present the different protein schools of thought, and this is an excellent episode. Looking forward to hearing your convo with Dr Longo. I really appreciate the fact that you continue to bring different perspectives to your podcast.

[@jamiehayes6714]

Thanks Simon. I just discovered your channel and this was a fantastic interview with a great guest and topic. One question about grams (protein) per kg. Are you referring to kg weight, kg ideal body weight, kg lean weight or kg target weight? If it's any of the last 3, then would it not be easier to estimate protein goals based upon height? Also, I'd like to hear more about any differences between achieving optimal protein from 6 servings per day, versus 2or 3 servings per day. Does a bolus 30 g really make a difference. The reason for the question is that I work with 40+ females wanting to lose weight, and getting them to consume 30 g protein at least 3 times a day can be difficult in practice. I look forward to listening to your past interviews. Great work. PS Thanks for going to the effort to get your sound optimised, not just your mic but your room acoustics. Too many interviewers and guests ignore this and it makes it so difficult to hear and concentrate on their message.

[@kathyparmele7888]

Hi Simon- great interview. Questions on MPS, protein timing and mTor- 1. Does MPS take a 2.5 gm leucine trigger in anyone regardless of weight? 2. Regarding protein "pulsing" and mTor activation- it was stated that mTor is activated with a minimum 2.5 gram leucine trigger (which leads to the 30 gram protein recommendation per meal minimum) but the argument made in this interview against small protein meals throughout the day is that this might constitutively keep mTor elevated, increasing cancer risk. Those two statements are at odds. Are you able to clarify? Thank you!

[@Deffine]

Eating every 2-3 hours is not gonna help you build muscle better than someone eating ever 5-6 hours.

[@heidisunshine2003]

Loved listening to conversation , Dr Don Layman was fabulous and very sincere

[@northerncoloradotransparen1454]

To ensure you're getting all the essential amino acids your body needs, you should consume a variety of protein-rich foods. While individual foods may not contain all essential amino acids in optimal quantities, combining different protein sources can help you obtain a complete range of amino acids. Here are some top foods that, when combined, can provide you with all essential amino acids: Quinoa: A pseudo-grain that contains all essential amino acids. It's a complete protein source and can be used as a base for various dishes. Buckwheat: Another pseudo-grain, similar to quinoa, that provides all essential amino acids. It's gluten-free and can be used in porridges, salads, or as a flour substitute. Eggs: A complete protein source, with all essential amino acids present in the egg white. They are versatile and can be prepared in numerous ways. Fish: Seafood, such as salmon, tuna, and trout, are excellent sources of high-quality protein. They provide all essential amino acids and are rich in omega-3 fatty acids. Chicken breast: A lean meat that offers a complete range of essential amino acids. It's low in fat and can be prepared in various healthy ways. Greek yogurt: A dairy product that contains all essential amino acids. It's also a good source of calcium and probiotics. Tofu and tempeh: Plant-based sources of protein that provide all essential amino acids. They are popular options for vegetarians and vegans. Lentils: Legumes like lentils are rich in protein and contain a good balance of essential amino acids. They are versatile and can be used in soups, stews, or salads. Chia seeds: Although small in size, chia seeds are a good source of protein and contain all essential amino acids. They can be added to smoothies, oatmeal, or used as an egg substitute in baking. Quorn: A meat substitute made from mycoprotein, which contains all essential amino acids. It's a suitable option for vegetarians and vegans.

[@seowchen]

P

[@gardeningforfunandlongevit6076]

Love your direct and to the point question approach.

[@keto-rl2ce]

I loved this ep! The importance of Meal Timing & Muscle Protein Synthesis (24:40)- especially for seniors & ppl on Vegan diets. I wish Drs. Chris Gardner & Stuart Phillips ( Ep 228) would have specifically addressed the need to have ALL proper ratios of the limiting amino acid present in feeding window to spur MPS. It was never directly addressed there. Great Stuff, Simon. TY! 🙌

[@keto-rl2ce]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill I'm T2D w sev chronic stuff too so been using CarbManager alot past few months. I will give Chrono a look. TY!

[@DrCorassaSaudeFrugal]

Thats quite funny have worked for egg board and what about the okinawas eating 39 g of protein per day? Anthropoid primates eat low protein diets... i agree with longo and sinclair. Thats insane

[@matijagrguric6490]

The question is, does your body agree with you

[@jimpatek6244]

So refreshing having been completing the Cornell online introductory course on nutrition that steadfastly maintains the line that a very low (as in 5 to 10%) plant protein diet is optimum for health regardless of age. What I take away from this as a 77 year old vegan is that I had better be supplementing my protein intake which happens to support my actions. I will take my chances with IGF-1 and m-Tor. Fortunately for vegans, there is a new vegan whey protein with a better amino acid profile than animal whey marketed as V-Whey under the California Performance Company label.

[@knockingseeker]

Yes and no. The very low protein might be better for longevity. But not better for short term health and thriving.

[@victorinborsciov6817]

Very low (5-10%) plant protein is regarded as a safe level to protect us even from cancer. T. Colin Campbell mentioned about getting cancer turned on(above 10%) then turned off(

[@GlennMarshallnz]

Hi Simon, fascinating comments: 1. Only 25% of protein used by muscles. 2. Muscle preservation is 80% resistant and only 20% protein intake. 3. 6 out of 7 amino acids get reincorporated. The cumulative effect of the above is significant. It would be appreciated if you and/or your guests could cover off in greater detail the fact that the body produces the majority of the protein required all by its self. I wonder if the amino acids that we self produce are the most critical, hence evolution has led to them to being the only ones we self produce. From an observational point of view the following seem apparent: The following cohorts don't normally achieve longevity or vitality 1. Body builders that pump a lot of iron (the ones that don't do steroids) 2. High end edurance athletes and they also wear out their bodies and hearts 3. Sedentary and/or overweight people 4. Taller humans have a shorter life span, which probably helps partially explain why females live longer even when accounting for lifestyle choices. The people that live beyond 85 and still live in their own home and remain active, healthy and independent are generally lean. Personally I believe that the current protein obsession is partly food company marketing and partly individuals seeking an easy option I.e. glug down protein rather than make lifestyle changes.

[@GlennMarshallnz]

@@markgarcia5845 Hi Mark, interesting comments. Thanks for sharing. Everyone's on the road to death, but there's no need to get in the fast lane. I agree with your philosophy and lifestyle. A WFPB diet and vegan lifestyle is also kinder on the individual, planet, and animals.

[@contrarian717]

​@@GlennMarshallnz good comment. Personally I battle with this concept of doing so much protein each and every day. 60g a day or so is fair enough (RDA), but going to say 150g a day, (I'm 150 pounds as an example) just instinctively feels wrong to me. Yes it's just my opinion, off course. But think about it, if I had, as an example, 3 eggs at 8am and say 3 more at 2pm, it sounds like not a bad protein effort for the day. Yet, that takes me to say 40g for the day which is not even a third of what some of these experts are advocating. Just does not make sense to me.

[@contrarian717]

​@@GlennMarshallnz another point, I eat tons of fats (egg, avocado, and especially macadamia). Yet I'm getting skinnier, not fatter. I'm too skinny actually. Makes me wonder about the same principle regarding protein...

[@educational-101]

Super glad you brought up the transportation, that comment never sat well with me from what we know.

[@navazsultanali4622]

How to get 300g/day protein intake? Even based on shakes It's difficult beside unhealthy. Very good. Thanks for your work. But extensive and would be an upgrade if you could post a resume

[@BigPictureYT]

Simon, ask Professor William Happer from Princeton on your show to discuss global CO2 levels. I think you will find him fascinating.

[@blisskirtanyoga]

Great podcast. I hope you will summarize all these protein podcast Simon 😀. Im surprised about his opinion about Dr longo. But I rather live healthy than just a long life. Plz at some stage do discuss how much protein is recycled. Those trying to loose weight keep total calories low, but high protein need to know how to. I do IF as well but try to fit protein in two meals. Thanks again, Kirti Seth 🙏☺️

[@kardste8114]

Should an Advanced Cancer patient over 60 years eat mainly a plant based diet? And should protein be low as according to T. Collin Campbell research?

[@CarmellaNYC]

As a plant based Vegan how do I get that much protein in a day and which foods have leucien if I don't eat eggs?

[@wocket42]

I guess you would need to eat 25% more protein from soy (compared to eggs/meat). So you might be eating soy all day, which may not be healthy either, at least if unfermented.

[@ramonwalsh7434]

Thanks for this episode Simon, lots to think about for those of us following WFPB diets. On question - are the guidelines for protein based on kg of bodyweight or kg of lean body/muscle mass? Assuming you know your body fat %, the two lead to quite different ranges....I thought I heard Dr Layman say its the latter but people don't necessarily know their lean body mass?

[@TheBswan]

It's lean mass. You can estimate, it's not all that important. If you're worried you can just go slightly high on protein intake which is unlikely to have negative effects.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@TheBswan So if adults in the US is getting 1.1g protein per kg bodyweight, how did they figure that with so many obese people? What weight do they consider lean, I wonder?

[@jaynepower4330]

Dr Layman advises people to estimate protein based on ideal body weight for height. And to beware highly processed foods like American cheese I suppose.

[@jaynepower4330]

Sorry scrap the cheese comment, I misread the latter part of your comment!

[@Emanuelnx]

I was surprised to hear him say that the average protein intake in the US is about 0,9-1,0 g/kg. If I remember correctly Dr Christopher Gardner said, in your episode with him and Dr Stuart Philips, that it was about 1,3-1,4 g/kg, or somewhere in that ballpark

[@CharlieFader]

Although, it may not be a huge difference, I think his pro animal foods bias is kinda evident throughout the podcast. That’s not surprising since he even mentioned that he was on the egg board…

[@erichines1150]

Some fun highlights in this interview, massive props to the moderator. Guy aggressively promotes breakfast, reveals he worked for the egg industry. Attacks Longo but admits he doesn't even know the actual details of the research he's criticizing. Promotes high protein consumption by citing a study he ran that found greater igf1 activation in a high carb diet vs high protein then admits the carbs tested were literally the worst possible. Obviously he is knowledgeable, but seems conflicted in various ways.

[@erichines1150]

Thanks! Worth a watch I'd say, but definitely get what you mean.

[@Gigi-z3z]

This is such fascinating content. The steely science is there for us to learn! ✨🌟✨

[@Alykat736]

After listening I started searching the Internet of what protein heavy sources he favors , and/or outright says is not good . I can’t find anything on that. Does anyone know?

[@alinapiekna6963]

You should look at Dave Feldman's research on hyperresponders. They are currently being conducted at I believe Haward (Don't quote on the college). They have some preliminary data out that's interesting.

[@davidjkittner]

This is such a powerful and informative episode. Many thanks to you and Dr. Layman. This was a great episode that was very easy to follow thanks to your great interview style. Thanks again Simon. 🙏🏻🌱

[@bonniek7228]

I am currently reading Dr. Garth Davis’s book - “Protein-Aholic”. Interesting contrast of “proofs” and thoughts!

[@wmartonejr]

Believe Mr Laymen was rather clear … it takes more calories of plant based proteins to equal that which is found in animal sources. And, too many calories is a leading contributor to metabolic dysfunction. So why would anyone prefer to tinker with consuming too many calories?

[@DanielleDeantv]

Excellent interview.

[@Webberj40]

Great podcast! Thank you.

[@carinaekstrom1]

I'm mostly looking forward to your own conclusions, Simon, at the end of all these episodes. So much info to try to sort out, it's a bit contradictory and confusing to me.

[@carinaekstrom1]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Have you looked at this, Simon? : "Targeting the Gut Microbiota to Improve Dietary Protein Efficacy to Mitigate Sarcopenia"

[@yvonnekiwior9633]

1st time watching your podcast; I sure appreciate you and your guest! ❤ My ribeye steaks sure are talking to me now!!!😂 Thank you.🎉

[@foodtech426]

That’s the best Donald Layman interview I’ve seen. Well done on the variety, depth and significance of your questioning!

[@theslacker]

so yes, i am very confused right now. i honestly believe dr. longo. he may be bised, but let's not forget that luigi fontana came to the same conclusions regarding protein bcaas, etc and longevity. he works in sidney, and he's a top longevity researcher. it's hard to dispute his claims. i wrote some comments on this topic on norton's channel, but somehow they were deleted. i wonder if you can bring luigi on your podcast one day.

[@Pilarfitvegas]

The last thin Dr Layman said was golden 🎉🎉🎉

[@tfish5539]

Simon should protein per kg be based on body weight or ideal body weight?

[@Selenes7]

Great episode again Simon!! I love how gently you rebutted him in the end! ;-) I would love to hear what you have to say about Dr. Chris Palmer's claims he made on the Huberman Lab podcast . Basically (and it's the second time on that podcast I've heard they say that anti-oxidants was the hype in the 90's and no longer considered to really be all that important (I think Dr. David Sinclair also made that claim), and that (unless you're overweight) you should just chug as much fat as possible, be it saturated or not... Kinda counter to everything I've learnt about nutrition.. Man sometimes I get so disheartened. I loved Dr Gregor's view of the vegan diet, but I guess it's just not true.. 😞

[@jakobw135]

Isn't it easier to assimilate a large meal at the beginning of the day rather than later on?

[@maricamaas2326]

It depends how active you want to be otherwise at the beginning of the day, since digestion demands a lot of energy.

[@DrSam112]

A SUMMARY at the end would be excellent.

[@deliaocampo4340]

I live here for almost 27 years thanks God never call in sick at work I eat healthy reading always the ingredients before I buy knowing what is good or bad no bread soda or processed meat or any stuffs buy always grass fed meat organic chicken fruits and veggies no fast foods always cook at home eat only when hungry not smoking it is the choice of a person what to buy to be healthy be active no worry and praying God bless all 🇸🇽🇺🇸

[@BigPictureYT]

Simon, why are you concerned about LDL? Have Dave Feldman on your show and he will bring you up to date on the lipid hypothesis.

[@matijagrguric6490]

​@@TheProofWithSimonHill isnt ldl and mortality a u shaped curve

[@u98112]

First meal and last meal of the day are extremely important

[@Acadia708]

Awesome 👏. Thanks for this valuable information!

[@beckymalicsi1860]

Very informative. Excellent

[@Amshatelia88]

I was fascinated by the discussion of meal timing! Especially alongside your other episodes on fasting, ie Dr. Courtney Peterson. After I listened to that one I actually tried the "breakfast like a king, dinner like a pauper" strategy and after about two days I was ravenous in the morning but also much more functional. I wonder how the macro content of meals impacts the effects of fasting? I bet there's a lot more insight they could provide about each others' work. That said, I found Dr. Layman's comments on funding of studies a bit disingenuous. The fact that the law prohibits companies from reviewing studies prior to publication does not mean that it doesn't happen...otherwise great and informative episode!

[@lf7065]

Once you're fat adapted, you will no longer be ravenous. Important to get all your animal foods in alongside the plants!

[@Amshatelia88]

@@lf7065 there are plenty of plantbased fats too! Honestly I have been wfpb vegan for 15 years, and I will never go back to eating animal products as I felt like utter garbage eating meat.

[@Amshatelia88]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thanks for your insight, as always!

[@lynnritchie231]

​@miaprzyborowski7037 With you 100%. There's no need to eat animals and there's lots of evidence to prove it.

[@ricksikora7270]

Awesome interview.

[@murraypooley9199]

I read so many comments here from people who are starting to "get it". The podcast by "Dr Anthony Chaffee entitled "Plants Are Trying To Kill You" fills in the gaps completely and takes metibolic health / fittness to another level.

[@murraypooley9199]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill What problems? I first got fit and healthy on keto, then sick, now as fit and healthy as. everything Anthony says has been just great for me. Not had a carb for nearly a year and are is the best shape of my life.

[@blackmarketarmy]

30g protein for breakfast is still easy plant based. I do 1 cup oats and 2 cups soy milk in the instant pot, then add a handful of nuts and that's 30g in my one bowl of oatmeal.

[@markv2360]

If you're pulling the 30g protein amount from the nutritional facts, you need to take into account the lower bioavailability since you're consuming plant protein. Still sounds like a good meal though.

[@maricamaas2326]

With the added nuts, it surely sounds tasty! However, not only to consider the lower bio-availability of plant protein, but additionally that oats, some nuts, and especially soy inhibits protease; making the amount of protein the body will eventually be able to utilize, highly questionable.

[@althe]

Good questions and good answers! Both rare. I now know enough to make money as a protein expert.

[@maricamaas2326]

'I'd like you to celebrate, not mourn your high LDL' - Dr Nadir Ali. Wonderful to learn that proteins do not cause kidney damage, but actually improve kidney function! Considering how more than 30% of our body - including our bones - consist of protein in collagen form, and that the body over time deminshes in its ability to produce collagen... Would it not be a good strategy for the elderly especially to favour ingesting collagen-rich (animal) foods - complemented by for example Vit C, Vit D, Vit K2 and minerals such as Calcium, Magnesium, and Sodium?

[@tiempo9855]

Thank you for the great podcast as usual! At 50:40 Dr. Layman says that we cannot measure the difference between 1.2 and 1.6g of protein/kg of body weight. Does this mean there is no benefit of a protein intake greater than 1.2g/kg? Also, is there a difference in optimal protein intake between men and women that resistance train? I remember once reading a paper that showed the plateau for bodybuilding was 1.6g/kg, but bodybuilders on steroids often claim higher is better, so does higher testosterone change the recommendation?

[@tiempo9855]

Also can you share with us the paper on transportation you mentioned at the end? Thanks

[@tiempo9855]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill Thank you

[@johnbielenda7336]

Excellent interview...............

[@lj9089]

Love this content! Thank you!

[@claudio00444]

I'm 80 and started light bodybuilding (1 year now ). 60 push up with out rest . Biking each 2 day 40km 1"50 hours . I take 60 prot whey . When people see me the can't believe it .

[@tikipharm5957]

Does doing anything for muscle help with ALS?

[@opeyemiodutola9560]

Thank you so much I appreciate

[@hadd5106]

Simon, take a look at a man who was ahead of his time - Dr. Ernst Van Aaken - especially his book The Van Aaken Method. He intuited many of the current trends in metabolic health and longevity back in the late 1940's!

[@ivo69tube1]

Great Podcast!

[@AndrewKarczewski]

Great Interview ! Some Key Pieces of Information: - Minimum of 2,500 mg Leucine required Per Meal to trigger mTOR and Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS): - 30 grams of WPI equals 2,500 mg to 3,000 mg of Leucine - This is where the myth of no more than 30 grams of protein Per Meal comes from ... - 40 grams of WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) Per Meal is highly Recommended - More Leucine is required as we age in order to trigger mTOR and MPS - If you are eating less than 2,500 mg of Leucine per meal: - You get none of the mTOR or MPS benefits and are only getting the appetite satiety effect of Protein - Your are feeding your liver - Which is great, but you are not feeding your muscles - Once your have triggered mTOR: - It remains triggered 5 to 6 hours later - However, MPS shuts down after 2 to 3 hours (possibly due to depletion of ATP) - Potentially FAR MORE beneficial to have your Next Meal (Final Meal) 5 to 6 hours after your First Meal - we want mTOR and MPS to fully switch off after First Meal, then kickstart it again with our Final Meal - Protein Distribution: - Donald Layman recommends 1.5g protein per KG of Bodyweight, with split distribution throughout the day - First meal - Barely needs to activate mTOR - So, 40 grams WPI (4,000 mg Leucine) ... - Final meal - (Ideally 5 or more hours later) More Protein (Leucine) than the First Meal - So, 55+ grams WPI (5,500+ mg Leucine) - Don't snack on carbs or refined carbs - neither of these contribute positively to mTOR or MPS - Don't have a Protein meal prior to exercise - Do have a post workout Protein meal Up for Debate: - Having less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) is actually a good idea in order to feed your Liver ... - Technically less than 2,500 mg Leucine for First Meal (20 grams or less of WPI) shouldn't activate mTOR or MPS, but it will stop your Liver from engaging in muscle catabolism in order to feed itself a steady source of amino acids. You're Welcome 🙂, Andrew

[@jeffgovender6087]

Highly insightful!!! Thank you!

[@sectionalsofa]

Firstly, I can't imagine a completely plant based meal that has 55 grams of protein without supplementation. Secondly, Dr. Fuhrman, who I respect enormously, recommends a heavier lunch and a lighter dinner. So hard to know what's right. If I had a water gun, I'd blow my brains out.

[@peterz53]

I wonder if anyone has back calculated the protein intake, and amino acid breakdown (protein source), for long lived healthy populations? I'm guessing the lack of junk food in healthy populations as well as being physically active makes evaluating the protein question difficult.

[@lf7065]

Fabulous interview! ❤️

[@fryderyku]

Great material!

[@akospokovai413]

I don't get that part, that I need to eat 30g protein per meal to get 2,5g leucine for a meal.... why I need 2,5g leucine per meal, when 2,5g is the daily requested amount?

[@AndrewKarczewski]

Because - What Donald Layman is saying is that you need 2,500 mg of Leucine per meal to trigger Muscle Protein Synthesis (MPS) ... if you only eat one protein meal per day and you hit the RDI of 2,500 mg of Leucine per day then you are all good. The problem is what if you eat 3 meals per day and you still get the RDI? Well that RDI gets divided by three 2,500 mg Leucine / 3 = 833 mg Leucine for each meal. This means that at all three meals, you never trigger MPS ever ...

[@trianglejudoclub5873]

At 1:25 Simon mentions high LDL as if that's an issue? High insulin and a high Triglyceride to HDL ratio are the real issues. I would suggest listening to Dr Paul Mason, Prof. Tim Noakes, Dr Jeff Volek. and if your brave enough Prof. Bart Kay.

[@trianglejudoclub5873]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill will do, thanks.

[@maricamaas2326]

'I'd like you to celebrate - not mourn - your high LDL levels' - Dr Nadir Ali

[@trianglejudoclub5873]

@@TheProofWithSimonHill well I did listen to it. Twice actually. He seems like a really good genuine man. I feel though he is on a single track that has limited his peripheral vision. The whole subject of nutrition has become unnecessarily complex due to lack of control for manufacturing processed junk. I eat mainly meat along with many other fit healthy people with totally clear coronary calcium scans after many years consuming fat and beef. Others choose to eat mainly vegetables and are also fit healthy people. The target for us all should be commercial enterprises who are killing our children.