Debating a NEOCON: Are Conservatives ONTOLOGICALLY EVIL?

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#Republicans #Debate #Conservatives

[@MiniatureMashUp]

Dear Republicans, a contradiction is not a counterpoint. "I disagree" is not a magic phrase.

[@Alex.R.L]

It's self defense.

[@nymade4130]

I disagree. Owned liberal.

[@graysonwilson3343]

@@nymade4130 I agree

[@estoyakula8525]

Just like Alito's "take" on the 14th amendment!

[@SpielkindFR]

I ... uhm ... I don't ... ah ... like ... see that.

[@underplague6344]

Like I said in chat, this talk has an almost ethereal quality to it. Like it was late at night, set in an abyssal cave, talking to the last neocon on earth as the world outside crumbles.

[@davidisrael9799]

Right? I sort of feel bad for him, clinging on like that

[@justanothergamer7918]

One of the critically endangered neocon's out there. Voooosh is a poacher.

[@theelordpyro]

Poetic.

[@jadendesveaux7452]

Vaush was holding this guys hand throughout and his whole response was “I don’t see that”

[@jadendesveaux7452]

My dude in 1933 Weimar Germany: I don't think the Nazis will actually eliminate democracy, they don't actually believe it, they're just pandering to Hitler and his base. Nazi propaganda won't lead to genocide, they are just calling them pedophiles, rapists, rats, vermin, subhuman, and that they have taken over the banks and institutions, they aren't actively calling for their execution.

[@PossumPunx]

Vaush: historical context, sociological evidence, facts and logic This guy: I don’t think so

[@luxborealis]

True chad move.

[@subotnai1]

For a full hour

[@MeNatalieMarie]

I disagree, I just don't really see that happening." 😕So much denial with those answers.

[@Amelia_Whitevoid]

I uhh... Disagree. I don't... See... That...

[@CynicalBastard]

"FACTS, LOGIC" - Leftist cringe. Philosophers still can't "pin" knowledge, or "fact" [consider Action Theory and theory of mind] or "truth" down...and this is their "expertise".

[@liz1646]

This really is just the guy not liking that his party is evil because he disagrees the evil things they do are evil. Like literally, his entire argument is "I disagree." No actual argumentation for the disagreement to have any merit.

[@wile123456]

It's double think or cognative dissonance. Keep coping by saying you're not evil or believe the evil things your political sprty does, but keep voting for them and supporting them.

[@lloroshastar6347]

Yeah I can't say he opened my mind. Thing is I think a lot of right-wingers want to enter a debate sphere without knowing their own limitations or having the intelligence to work on them. To my mind the only Conservative debater who actually challenges my world view from time to time is Counterpoints, and even then its only rarely. Maybe there are better ones out there I'm not aware of but most of the time it's liberals that have any chance of moving me on a certain point from leftism, very rarely Conservatives.

[@CannaCult]

In all actuality MOST people get their views in this sort of way. "I'm not evil, I'm good. So the party I support and the Ideas I have can't be evil. A good person wouldn't support an evil party or ideology. I'm good so my party and Ideology are good too."

[@kaisarion6668]

He’s a blue dog Democrat looking for a Republican Party that doesn’t exist

[@DnD_guydude]

I see this kind of thing with my parents a lot (who exclusively and proudly vote republican but don’t agree with a single policy and actually ideologically line up more with Bernie). It’s like they both don’t want to admit that the crazies have taken over the party and it’s largely they’re fault, and they HATE democrats more. The idea of voting democrat literally churns their stomachs no matter how many policies they agree with.

[@eman22017]

I’m going to assume the neoconservative will say that conservatives are not ontologically evil

[@patrickkilduff5272]

yeah...once they google it and pretend to understand what that means...sure

[@elbownio5820]

Typical

[@jerryjohnson4008]

I mean. Yes. We are evil. 💀 But that's what makes conservativism right. Because self identity comes from acknowledging your worst traits that you are capable of having. Progressives don't. This is why they are always surprised when they end up starting death camps...like...Germany, south Africa, china, Russia, south America....💀....those death camps all happen to have been stated by states run by the left, extreme left at that. 💀...I mean. When your evil, you can become good. But when you find yourself "righteous in thy own eyes" the only option for you to do...is evil. 💀

[@cameronpatterson130]

Vaush is literally a neocon. Like he is indistinguishable from the neocon establishment on Ukraine-Russia and the need for US/NATO intervention

[@jerryjohnson4008]

@@cameronpatterson130 I don't care for group politics. 💀 It tends to be where evil manifests itself. Has to be. One person's evil isn't strong enough to circumvent the tribe. But when the tribe is splintered and made into little groups ( because that's how you mentally control people, identity of the politik being rooted in the group and not the individual) by definition your in a group for a reason. 💀 The other group Must think you are evil, and you must think the other group is evil. It's the same masters either way. 💀 They just laugh cause you buy the shit like the phrase. ( Don't say Gay) 💀 tho I disagree with the nature of how the law is written, which seeks to give too much power to the parents that they can make false claims and punish the school. Does not change the fact...that Phrase 'dont say gay' is infact....Pure Propaganda. 💀 Pure emotional lie...more or less. 💀 And people like vaush will probably say..."lying is justified if the cause is legit" 💀 which is a sick and twisted reality of which....NOONE should trust and partake with you if your mentality is lying to achieve good...is good. No. It's not. It's evil. The idea is evil, and the outcome...will be evil. 💀

[@d3th2m3rikkka]

Imagine unironically being a neocon in 2022

[@firerunner35624]

Sounds exhausting, being so afraid of brown and the powerless.

[@tylerhackner9731]

Being a neocon at any time is cringe

[@joker-pilled5892]

Being a neoliberal is based.

[@wiggledixbubsy98]

Behind the dialectic

[@NoahRamseysGhost]

@@joker-pilled5892 no

[@comrade-dolphin3945]

Vaush: _Describes exactly what is happening right now_ This guy: I dOn'T rEaLlY sEe ThAt HaPpEnInG

[@ASolidSnack]

That exact mindset is literally how fascism happens, in fact! It's the old "first they came for..." quote. Death by degrees. In Japan, they started by jailing militant communists, then all open communists, then accused any dissidents of being communists so they could jail them, then outright openly make dissension illegal. And every step of the way people just read the paper and said "well, that's bad, but it won't go any further than that", and people didn't want to argue with the supporters about it because it was "just a difference in opinion" and didn't think it was worth creating strife.

[@justinem4117]

Conservative denialism is one hell of a drug. Once you've sufficiently convinced yourself something ISNT or CANNOT be happening its hard for you to agree on things that are objectively true. This persons rhetoric and his arguements? STRAIGHT UP APOLOGISM for republican violence against trans people and as a trans woman myself this kind of dogmatic response to factual information really fucking concerns me

[@ironickrempt]

Ontologically evil? No. They are worse: they are not inherently evil beings, they CHOOSE to be evil. They WILLFULLY cause suffering. To say they are evil by nature is to give them a moral out for their crimes.

[@briankenney9528]

Replaying to boost visibility for this comment

[@LainVics]

This is something that finally severed the ties between me and my father, I told him that he was worst than a beast, because they can't choose, he chose to be evil

[@GhostOnTheHalfShell]

I just call them sadists.Religious sadists.

[@niceguy2527]

This is deranged and dangerous rhetoric

[@ajirawa5729]

@@LainVics Jesus. That is one of the worst things you can ever say to someone. Don't do that

[@superfluousnscrupulous9458]

It's discouraging to see how much denialism this guy engaged in when the facts were so clear

[@Alex.R.L]

Reality has a Left leaning bias, they need to LARP a fantasy to believe what they believe. Intuitive axioms.

[@chandlerharrise4300]

It’s the conservative way of life

[@shaunsmith9013]

Well....uh...the...thing is....I mean...some....uh...would say...that....it....wont...uh...be...uh......that...bad..I....mean....i....dont...uh......think all....uh....that.

[@adnanxm]

There's two ways for conservatives to cope with the actual outcomes of their beliefs. One, is to do like this guy does, and simply deny. Two, is to lean in like the Trumpers and delude yourself into believing that any bad outcome is owning the libs and therefore good by default, no matter how much personal harm it may deliver even unto themselves.

[@Feefa99]

Yep, denial is strong with this one

[@gruesometoucan2332]

His entire argument is " I don't believe that would happen"

[@m_magica1]

That's it. This needs to be top comment. This is basically the summary of the entire video. It really doesn't matter what evidence is presented to this caller because his explanation is just gonna be "nah".

[@diallo1347]

Drink everytime he says, "I disagree"

[@grimdarkfuture]

@@diallo1347 Are you trying to kill us all?!

[@IMelkor42]

I drank every time he said "I can't see that" and now I'M blind too

[@m_magica1]

@@IMelkor42 congrats! You now believe in American exceptionalism lol

[@emilycrow8278]

Literally, "It couldn't happen here." I sincerely blame our education system. All of the focus of general education history on it is the Holocaust itself, and the US involvement of WW2. Never the 10 years of the build up and decay of a country that was just before, leading the world's scientific insights and philosophical culture.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Weimar Rewhatsits?

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

I'm graduating within the month and I don't remember learning literally anything about wwi and I don't think they ever even mentioned the Weimar Republic

[@jasonfenton8250]

Learning about how progressive Germany was before the war was a real eye opener. If it can happen there, it can happen anywhere. Also, mfw one of the most famous nazi book burning photos is the burning of research on trans people.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

@Daddy Karl Marx Yet I assume your username is at least somewhat unironic? You say you didn't have a robust world history education, and presumably you turned out fine. I just have a hard time believing that not being taught about g***cide will lead you to believe it sounds like a good idea. I was taught that America stands for liberty and equality. That I took it to it's logical conclusion and became a Communist.

[@TwoForFlinchin1]

Or how American Eugenics, the Native American genocide, American Border policies (the invention and use of zyklon b), and Southern racial codes influenced the Nazis and every conceivable aspect. Also George W Bush's grandfather was Nazi collaborator as a member of Congress

[@vaasnaad]

His entire argument could be boiled down to, "I personally trust them despite the evidence."

[@firerunner35624]

"I disagree. I don't see Ted bundy's or Hitler's actions as evil. I just don't see it. You're being hyperbolic." - 2022 Neoconservative

[@SickBuckNaStY]

What evil i can't see any? 🙈

[@sEdJ1281]

"LALALALALALA *I CAN'T HEAR YOU* ALALALALALA" -Same probably

[@morgenroete8789]

I can’t make out if the guy is just not very bright or if he’s just extremely gullible. The amount of denialism he engages in regarding the republican party‘s motivations is astounding. Comes across like he’s extremely sheltered

[@vishg5148]

Definitely both

[@ismth]

That plus some willful ignorance surely, right? bc like what’s not clicking

[@LitchAustin]

He sounds young to me, he probably IS sheltered, a nice suburban boy not smart enough to look at the intellectual arguments any closer than "he said she said.

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

I'm not even 5 minutes in and he can barely string together a coherent sentence, I get he might be nervous but yeah he's probably kinda dumb, and that is what makes him gullible

[@LJStability]

Yeah, it was pretty shocking to me to be honest lol

[@jennanyx4968]

As a trans, anytime I talk to a conservative online, starts with me being called mentally ill, and ends with me being "lucky" that i'm not getting thrown off a building, so....

[@thomasallister3446]

Goes to show what they think of the mentally ill. It’s so odd that transphobes will say that trans people but then mentally ill and then also hate them, the point of labelling someone as mentally ill is to reframe the undesirable behaviour as no fault of their own, and something we should seek to help them with. Transphobes show that they’re also just general heartless people with no capacity for empathy or kindness.

[@katyungodly]

Trans is an adjective, not a noun. We are not "a trans".

[@katyungodly]

Damn I've never had a conversation that intense with a conservative, but to be fair I've kept myself heavily in the closet for that exact reason. They HATE us for literally no reason.

[@Dragonette666]

I let them know that I have 2nd amendment rights too.

[@sheriefelsayad5578]

damn , thats sad

[@realxandercuck]

This is so hard to listen to. This guy is just in denial and sticking his head in the sand while his party goes full fascist.

[@marioandloveyaplushmasters3374]

@@Ass_of_Amalek Mainstream politicians and even far right figures maybe used to be trump’s biggest critics in 2016 but then trump became president and few years down the line they feel in lockstep and even ignoring that trump was always mainstream by the base.

[@samuelrosander1048]

Vaush: "You just described a bad thing. Here's why it's bad." Neocon: "What I mean is...I don't agree...I don't see it..." Vaush: "Yes, but you're still describing a bad thing. Here's another way it's bad." Neocon: "What I mean is...I don't agree...I don't see it..." That's pretty much the discussion in a nutshell.

[@scoople6]

I think for many conservatives in order for them to believe something is racist, it needs to be super text. It's what makes fighting racism more complex and nuanced in the modern day because this hateful language has been ditched and instead we have policies that find roundabout ways of disenfranchising minorities like making it harder to vote. So with conservatives like this guy, they'll never see it coming because they only ever take conservative legislation and talking points at face value instead of looking deeper at the actual negative outcomes that those policies and words entail.

[@rainbowkrampus]

Chronic lack of imagination. Much can be said about the empathy gap and other well trod phenomena of the conservative mindset. But for me it's the complete stagnation of imagination which is the downfall of conservatism. They cannot and will not imagine a world outside of a prescribed set of dictates.

[@2DTrashTMCR]

They do not and cannot read subtext. They willfully deny it while also wielding it as a weapon. It's absurd.

[@debordeleur2005]

While leftists on the other hand will look at a black guy saying « fuck white people » and say that’s not racism.

[@jo0rd73]

@@rainbowkrampus Reminds of Vaush’s line of how reactionaries are just incapable of engaging in hypotheticals, unless it’s happening right now it’s impossible to ever happen for them

[@jerryjohnson4008]

Are you implying that progressive economic policies haven't made life harder in progress communities of influence. 💀 Nonsense. Absolute garbage philosophy. And is self refuting by definition. 💀

[@dinosaysrawr]

The most frustrating thing about talking to even ostensibly-or-seemingly-well-intentioned conservatives is that they really hang their hat on the fact that (to use a metaphor that has historically literally played out) a paraplegic who'd have to go up a flight of steps or use the technically-accessible entrance next to the dumpster has equal access to said building because they haven't been explicitly forbidden from entering it. This cute little technicality really seems to fool the conservatives who are young and naive, profoundly sheltered, or (as in the case of my university's College Republicans club leader) literally autistic. It's people who take their own identities and social status for granted not being able to fathom what it actually looks and feels like to have your identity and very existence negated.

[@ishq963]

The neo con sounds like someone who has never got out of their small white home town in the middle of Nebraska

[@terrystevens3998]

It’s the basis of conservative belief.. conservative is the state of ignorance and as people educate themselves they move left. The conservatives just stay in the state of ignorance and don’t recognize that they are all dumb

[@LizStaples]

Yeah or Utah, there is little excuse for it in this day and age we are online, culture war is the Republicans whole thing, and it is translating into policy.

[@theelordpyro]

Dude is in major denial of the reality of his party. Neocon indeed.

[@LDIndustries]

One thing I am a little disappointed about is Vaush not asking this guy his opinions on social issues, because honestly I'd bet he's against the existence of gay and trans people too so that's why he's unwilling to see the signs. He doesn't want to admit that he doesn't think it's bad for there to be a kind of genocide. After all he said he wanted to go back to 2004 when gay people were in the position that trans people are now and trans people were a radical afterthought no one knew about. He wants to go back to before these issues were talked about, when LGBT people had to live mostly in silence and secret, without actually admitting to the measures they'd take to accomplish that.

[@MatthewBanks100]

YES

[@marioandloveyaplushmasters3374]

Doesn’t that debunk the modern democrats being “old fashioned republicans” given how 11 years ago even democrats are against gay marriage whereas now they are for full trans equality.

[@LDIndustries]

​@@marioandloveyaplushmasters3374 Who's ever said that the democrats are "old fashioned republicans"?

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

The answer to the question is that it's actully quite complicated but also the answer is quite Yes

[@thorfirehawk4505]

The more complex answer is Absolutely

[@ironickrempt]

@@thorfirehawk4505 ehh, I think it would be more of a “they are WORSE because they CHOOSE to create suffering as opposed to being programmed to”

[@annasofienordstrand3235]

Not very complicated at all

[@Naranylla]

I love this comment

[@Ghee_Buttersnaps]

@@Naranylla ❤💚💙

[@GhostOnTheHalfShell]

Infinite patience but this guy is infinitely stubborn.

[@SA-mo3hq]

"Can't we go back to the old days where conservatives were shitty for slightly different reasons?"

[@stevonwhite8933]

Hated gay people a lot more instead, of now hating Trans people.

[@kittycatwithinternetaccess2356]

What reasons?

[@zeptocreations5507]

This poor guy really just sees no evil, but I hope he ends up looking at the entire political landscape a bit more critically and decides to run with Dems if he yearns for the old 2004 Republican party because like, they're not very different to modern Dems.

[@shaunsmith9013]

I'm sure he sees plenty of evil in us leftists

[@midorimashintaro2092]

2004 reps tried to bring an amendment against gay marriage, modern Dems would never in a million years bring something like that up. 2004 reps would call you a terrorist if you suggested leaving Afghanistan even if it meant a Taliban takeover, which Biden did.

[@emeraldheart2244]

a lot of "moderate" neocons voted Biden over Trump so maybe there is some small hope he will realize his party is batshit

[@chairmanoxygen6811]

actually have to commend Vaush for his patience. lord knows it couldn't be me.

[@daddykarlmarx6183]

While playing dark souls no less

[@stevonwhite8933]

@@Ass_of_Amalek *POS detected* ^

[@glumdrop4672]

I feel bad for this guy tbh, so many levels of denial and rationalization, hope he comes around someday

[@nicfirebear]

“This was painful” “I disagree…, I don’t think you could be pained by this.” 🤣

[@Ar1AnX1x]

when I hear Conservatives talk, whether it's actual dialogue IRL, voice chat online or in comment sections and text form, a lot of them sound really angry, paranoid and fearful about everything, not to be condescending and I myself am not in a stable place in my life but these people just seems to be in a really bad place mentally and psychologically.

[@LainVics]

Ikr, frfr. Like I'm an actual Mad Max maniac berserker, barely human creature, but Man...these guys ain't doin good

[@KainMcnab]

When you understand nothing everything is terrifying.

[@LainVics]

@@KainMcnab That's a good quote, I like that

[@jo0rd73]

I mean you’re completely right. To vote ‘red’ in this day and age you have to be extremely paranoid and fearful. Look at anything these politicians say, it’s all fear based. It’s not just ‘our idea will make this country better’ it’s ‘our ideas will make this country better because otherwise it will fall apart and everything will be terrible for all of us, your opposition despise you and will do anything to make you suffer and see this country crash and burn, a vote for me is a vote to save this country’. It’s sickening that what we once called the far right is just the right now…..so now what we call far right is just those advocating for the genocide of minority groups. Absolutely fucked!

[@TheGkmasta]

Conservatives generally have larger amygdalas which results in them being more irrationally fearful.

[@Daddybuttman]

I can’t tell if they’re just not sending their best or if this is their best.

[@apispraetorium3275]

The guy was good faith so that puts him among the top of the right wing in terms of morality. You really can't expect them to want for anything better than a return to the GOP of the past because at the end of the day conservatism is just a fight against human progress - the only difference is how hard that opposition is allowed to be.

[@thomasallister3446]

He’s just really nervous

[@thelorewriter9460]

I feel bad for this guy because he gives the impression of someone who's been raised to feel proud of his country and he's struggling with the reality that the image he grew up with simply isn't true. He has to deny that everything is happening because to acknowledge it would shatter the illusion, and that's the one concession he cannot make.

[@SaraphDarklaw]

Denial is a choice.

[@apriljk6557]

@@SaraphDarklaw not always a conscience one.

[@SickBuckNaStY]

🙈🙉🙊

[@zoddy2368]

This person was very nervous throughout the conversation. I’m glad Vaush kept a calm tone. I feel like the caller is like two months from leaving the right.

[@sydt7104]

one can hope

[@SS-xr7jf]

Does this guy not get that not every nazi was a passionate Jew beating psychopath? Some were just complacent since it was to their advantage to be so.

[@user-rx2ur5el9p]

Does this guy just say "I don't see that" for an entire hour? Edit: Yes. Also, I have NEVER heard someone say they *like* George Bush Jr. Literally never. Where did you find such a unique debate opponent, Vaush?

[@rainbowkrampus]

I mean, he was quite popular from around the end of 2001 through 2002. Lots of people liked him then. Fell off a bit after that lol

[@NyanSox]

I really hoped vaush would say “then open your eyes”

[@SickBuckNaStY]

🙈

[@LizStaples]

So George W Bush is actually working on some progressive stuff now, his presidency was run by Cheney and Romfield.

[@LJStability]

"I want to return to 2004 GOP". Aw yes, the era when we were still arguing about whether it should be legal for gay marriages to occur lol

[@dangeristh33]

Post 9/11 was a wild era I miss the daily show

[@xanosghoul]

Also the era when Trump genuinely was saying that he saw Muslims celebrating 911 happening and dancing in the streets. Much better and not at all racist and completely batshit insane.

[@LJStability]

@@xanosghoul Damn, Trump is like an onion. The more layers you dig, the more awful it gets.

[@katyungodly]

That's about to be today's political debate under the current iteration of the Supreme Court. I was arguing today about gay marriage with a conservative. They're still fighting to make it illegal 20 years later.

[@jazzgrackle1021]

Pretty sure Dick Cheney came out in support of gay marriage before the democratic establishment did.

[@EugeneVDebs-bt5pd]

Spoiler alert: Yes, yes they are.

[@ironickrempt]

I disagree, I believe they are WORSE. “Ontological” would imply they have no choice in their actions, but they do. So in reality, they actively CHOOSE to cause suffering, ergo, they are worse than “ontologically evil” and to call them that gives them a moral out.

[@brandonburough1215]

Every interaction in this convo can be summed up as follows: Vaush: makes claim, presents argument and evidence to support claim. Neocon: "uh.... no?" Repeat.

[@dylan6386]

Anybody who labels themselves as a conservative can have their arguments logically reduced to something tantamount to recidivism, whereas if you logically break Down most leftist strategies for politics, it at worst it seems utopian and it’s logically consistent

[@help4343]

"have their arguments logically reduced to something tantamount to recidivism" What does that even mean?

[@catboynestormakhno2694]

@@help4343 they don't want society to change for better they want to bring back the rights we have gathered through the last few years, they want to conserve a power structure where old as shit white men are unchallenged in positions of power from other people, and that requires a lot of grim actions to carry out

[@gunjfur8633]

@@help4343 Recidivism noun "returning to negative behavior" "repitition of antisocial behavior"

[@OccuredJakub12]

I imagine if this guy turned on cam we'd just see the crying cat meme like I dunno what's up with him but he feels like he's about to break down realizing conservatives be evil

[@iampuff7]

His introduction: I'm not evil, I'm ontologically evil

[@allekatrase3751]

"Republicans aren't like that. Sure, the de facto leader and the politicians with the most popular support are like that along with their most popular pundits. But republicans aren't like that." I don't understand how you remain affiliated with a party while being so out of touch with it.

[@chrisn.6477]

‘I don’t think that’s how it is, even though that is the objective reality and even though history has shown us this pattern time and time again - across countries, continents, and centuries.’ TL;DR - Vaush Bad / lefty disinfo

[@kaziem]

Me: *assuming neo con will end up meaning paleo con*

[@2sthimo449]

It tends to always be one more step right than what they describe themselves as Which is why everyone who calls themselves a classical liberal is just a neocon

[@nackskott12]

I haven't gotten through the whole video yet but the question I wish Vaush would ask is “Describe to me the process for genocide to occur. Obviously they don't just wake up one day and decide to do mass murder. What leads up to that historically?” Then you get to the core of the problem a lot quicker.

[@Tahllia]

He asks it about 16 minutes in

[@MariSheWolf]

Oh my god... I know he was nervous, but this amount of stuttering made it impossible for me to watch. Also, he's deeply in denial. Nothing Vaush says will get to him.

[@Kaidona]

I can feel myself aging every time he stops noising because he can barely dig the thought out of his head. If it was legitimately just stuttering, it'd be more bearable, but this going dead silent every few words is _torture._ Just, breathe, my dude, holy fuck.

[@bgoodnow]

The fact he called and is awkwardly trying to work out and justify the unjustifiable gives me hope! When you talk it out you realize how silly some of your beliefs are! This guy is where I was like 5 years ago with Christianity! I think he’s on the cusp of a breakthrough. I hope he gets it all figured out.🙂

[@kaisarion6668]

You know, ever since the rise of Trump I’ve become very interested in the history of the Weimar Republic and holy fu** are we in a bad place.

[@rhuthwiksuresh6900]

I like how the dude agrees with almost everything, except for the final bit where he would have to concede where republicans are evil. He conceded every point, agreed with the reasoning that Vaush explained to him, but at the final hurdle, he just says "Naahh, Naahh, Nooo man....American exceptionalism...muh..."

[@randomdeutsch5489]

Yes, the entire time I was thinking that this debate can be summarised by the Patrick wallet meme

[@nymade4130]

A hallmark sign of somebody not being too bright is them using “I disagree” as a refutation of a claim. Literally everything this guy said was just him taking forever to rephrase the thing you just said and then saying “I disagree” or “I don’t see that”. I think the main reason people like debates with tankies/wokescolds more is because they will at least engage with reality. Debating conservatives that aren’t media talking heads/ trained in Ben Shapiro style “debate” just seems like a professor trying their best to explain quantum physics to a three year old.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

Eh, I don't even know if I can concede that for wokescolds. I suppose thier claims are grounded in things that are empirically happening, but the majority of what they do is gaslighting. For Tankies thier platform is literally centered on denialism, and whatever else there is is larping that the glorious Revolution is imminent. No, I cannot say these groups are operating in muchreality.

[@nymade4130]

@@JebeckyGranjola oh don’t get me wrong o don’t think they accurately represent reality at all. What I mean is that they’ll attempt to defend what’s happening. The only real denialism I have seen was the Uyghur genocide. Other than that they don’t deny say the Holodomor happened, they’ll just say that it was a necessary step for industrialization. A conservative will straight up deny that the Southern Strategy happened. Tankies think they are morally correct so they don’t hide their ideas as much. There’s a difference between having the wrong opinion about reality and living in an alt universe. But nonetheless both are pathetic groveling subhumans with no real political beliefs other than continue the culture war so that we make no real progress.

[@ccole1255]

Trying to argue that "I don't see racism as a problem within conservatism" 😆😆😂 is just not going to convince anyone you're actually arguing in good faith at all.

[@GlassesAndCoffeeMugs]

I woulda told this guy to call in again when he actually has something coherent to say

[@firerunner35624]

Every villain is the hero in his or her own story.

[@louiscyfear878]

But not Vaush 😂

[@terrystevens3998]

@@louiscyfear878 you missed the entire point of the saying.. it means that everyone believes that they are the good guy. It applies to everyone bone head.. damn you conservatives are dense It’s rare for the bad guy to realize he is the baddie

[@IMelkor42]

So nice of Vaush to bring a blind guy on to talk to. Continuously diversifying the voices in his space.

[@kylereese6202]

Time Stamp!: 00:00 - 1:03:20 Vaush explains well thought out and fact based points. This dude: “Yeah but, like, um… I don’t, um, like, think so”

[@tacosux691]

Every response was him closing his eyes and covering his ears going “la la la nope nope nope I can’t hear you”

[@anthonypopour7548]

Is it just an act to pretend to not know what words mean, or is that a problem this dude really suffers from?

[@vienlacrose]

I do not give fascists the benefit of the doubt.

[@ch3burashka]

Tbf, "I just don't see it" is an unbeatable argument.

[@fotnite_]

The fact that he's LDS explains like half of this. My entire extended family is LDS, and a significant portion of them are neocons that switched to the Democrat party after Trump was elected in 2016.

[@kennaleeorme4454]

It seems like LDS fall into two categories: trump supporting nut jobs (my family) or mitt Romney almost conservative democrats types

[@LizStaples]

@@kennaleeorme4454 which is are both demons

[@Jorgec224]

@@kennaleeorme4454 When Trump was running up through 2016 my father got into a lot of arguments and lost touch with other LDS members. We were converted when I was like 9 so these are people my family became friends with, went on trips with, bonded with, and worshipped with. Suddenly these people are saying on FB that immigrants like my parents do not belong in this country, making the country worse. That my DACA status, that lets me work and study legally in the US, was wrong and it should be revoked. My father was almost disillusioned by that, suddenly he felt that these people did not see my family (one of the only latinos, or even non-white in that church building) as equals with them. I myself already felt this way going to a conservative high school where the mormon kids had no issue openly being homophobic and anti immigrant remarks. Now my parents go to a more Latino ward

[@paddycraig]

I live in salt lake city and am surrounded by replicas of this neocon guy, even the way he asks questions and disagrees.

[@marioandloveyaplushmasters3374]

@@kennaleeorme4454 Mitt Romney is probably even further right than George W Bush.

[@hayleyversailles6946]

It's painful trying to listen to this guy get any thought out

[@kmoney890]

A critical part of defanging Republi*ans would be to get guys like this, if they exist, to give up on the party. They don’t even have to vote blue or independent just not with the Republican Party. I have a suspicion that republicans hyper fixation on communities and maintaining them might be a reason a lot of them don’t want to look at the party objectively. In the sense that it’d be difficult for someone to look at a church they’ve been going to their whole life objectively.

[@rainbowkrampus]

I'm not so sure about that first part. Guys like him seem to be a very tiny minority. Remember that Trump's second run won him more votes than any previous incumbent ever. He's incredibly popular among cons. Strikes me as a completely irrelevant vestige from a time when cons were a little more mask on. The real solution as far as I can see is for a bunch of people living in NY and CA to move to flyover country. Those states are getting too expensive for most people to live in anyway. And there are enough people in those states and so few people in flyover states that it would only take a fraction of the blue staters to completely flip many red states. The opioid epidemic and covid have further wiped out many of these state's populations beyond their already aging and dwindling numbers. Granted, moving isn't easy and there's typically little work available in such places. And of course the cultural prospects are practically nil. But if you could frame it as a new kind of settler colonialism. Civilizing the republican savages, to be crass. I think a lot of people might go for it.

[@LizStaples]

One way that is actually happening is that women are opening telling men they won’t date a Republican

[@TehAnimationSparxx]

Seeing comments be way meaner to the guy than warranted imo. He came in good faith, and yes, this was more of a discussion than a debate because he had 0 points to offer, but overall this conversation seemed like it educated him quite a bit. Vaush handled this perfectly, because talking calmly and not completely disrespecting your opponent (unless they explicitly deserve it in the moment) is the best way to change minds. And every conservative who switches and votes democrat next election is a massive, GINORMOUS W for us

[@jfrancis6191]

Agreed. I like it when Vaush is patient and kind.

[@spartan2ar949]

He seemed genuine, but he's still in denial about how evil his party is. This seems to common to me.

[@JustJanitor]

This was the first one of your debates I watched. After watching a couple other highlight videos of yours this is my fav so far. Only because of how polite an civil it was.

[@norababcock]

Listening to this guy sounds like a looking at a shell of a human who just does what they're told. Like words with no weight or real thought behind them. It hurts to watch people like this. idk I'll leave real arguments to other people. Hard to watch people grasp at sand like this.

[@HannahNoell]

26:44 ah yes, the Whiff your l2-to-get stunlocked-to-rolling off a ledge ds2 true combo we've all been there

[@LitchAustin]

I'm commenting before the damn thing is even half finished, but this guy keeps saying he doesn't see the genocidal hatred in the republican party. I do, in specific people. In people I know and am related to, in people I run into online who are spouting the same hate. I have sat on the tailgate of a pickup drinking beer while some asswipe friend of a relative rants about racemixing and grooming. If you cannot see it you are blinkering yourself.

[@rainbowkrampus]

And lets not forget the rampant christo fascism. They will accept genocide because their book condones it.

[@Tahllia]

I’m black, so I don’t see it irl VERY OFTEN because most people know not to say it in front of a black person. But online, from friends, etc. I hear stories all the time of when white people think they’re alone and with like-minded people that they spout off crazy and wild shit. When you’re around those types of people, and even have them within your own family, and exist in the same internet circles(and even worse ones) how can you sit through an hour long debate and your only retort is “oh, no it isn’t. I don’t see that happening”

[@SunshineCasy]

This guy is so close to coming around. It's great how patient yet firm Vaush is with people like this.

[@ganaed9954]

"Yeah... buut....." The whole conversation

[@RunD.Ones1s]

Narrator: yes, yes they are

[@ironickrempt]

I disagree, I believe they are actually FAR WORSE. “Ontological” would imply they have no choice in their actions, but they do. So in reality, they actively CHOOSE to cause suffering, ergo, they are worse than “ontologically evil” and to call them that gives them a moral out.

[@opticr0n]

Man this is like finding a Unicorn except the Unicorn has black plague and is vomiting everywhere

[@AllFascistsCanSuckIt]

Also, to this caller: “ta-ta-ta-ta-TODAY JUNIOR!!!” Jesus, the him-hawing was fucking BRUTAL.

[@itisnotsosimple]

This guy's best argument is "nuh-uh". Its not even a debate really. Vaush makes a point then this guy says "nuh-uh" and they move on.

[@scoobydoobers23]

The most "conservative" take ever. I want the "conservative" party to be the same as it was 20 years ago. 🤣

[@clydeknightwind]

I left the stream right when this started. Didn't expect it to be this long. Poor, sleepy Vowsh.

[@RiotKurhein]

Near 500 antitrans bills have been promoted THIS year! Only 3 months in.

[@VannywiththeFanny]

Yep, it's Psychotic and obsessive.

[@davidwooden3878]

Good chat, but I wish he could see the over reach inherent in the trans discrimination bills and so on

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

This video has been interesting I learned that you need to prove that people are in fact doing what they are doing and that it is not enough to simply say that they did what they did Basically disavow disavow disavow is what they do

[@Mikeysan8]

I had to double check that I was in fact listening at 2x. This dude is the slowest, least eloquent speaker I have ever heard

[@letustalk]

This guy would tell an SA victim that it wasn’t real assault unless the perpetrator explicitly declares, “I am intending to sexually harass you.” What a fucking weasel.

[@lukebonser4899]

Does anyone else think this dude sounds kinda like Kermit? lmao

[@cronizle]

Dude, someone else said that during the livestream and I couldn't not hear it after. Like nervous neocon Kermit.

[@Pitmidget]

Nah, Kermit has charisma

[@ricklynmanchez5492]

This guy said Vaush’s lefty politics are impairing his judgment on this issue, And not minutes before was saying that our institutions are just to powerful for fascism to happen here, without any way of substantiating that claim, it might as well just be an article of faith, a religious conviction, and it warps his entire perception of events. I cannot fathom how he can claim that Vaush is the one who’s judgement is compromised here.

[@seionne85]

He has the same "people like me can't be the bad guy" attitude that had me trapped

[@INFINITE_AM_RADIO]

Bless you Vaush. This guy clearly needs to be heard. Keep talking with him, please god, save this poor creature.

[@emtheslav2295]

13:10 “I don’t see any merit to the idea that something like that is remotely possible of happening, like if Republicans get in power, and we see mass discrimination and killings” Ron DeSantis’ Don’t Say Gay Bill: allow me to introduce myself

[@samiamrg7]

And his bit about institutions protecting minorities is pretty rich. Our institutions have almost never protected anyone but straight, white men, why would the institutions suddenly stand up against a fascist takeover?

[@Ravierave]

The anti-protectionism bit blew me away. God bless. Talking to a normal conservative is weirdly invigorating. I hope he comes to terms with how bad his party has become and jumps ship. I have hope for him

[@JARV9701]

With how many times he said: "I don't know", I was expecting Vaush to respond: "I know you don't think, thats why..."

[@biggusdickus6537]

Not sure if my brain can take this one. Thanks for the info, folks

[@jordanmoore7340]

Honestly these rando conservative debates kinda end up the same. Vaush makes arguments, provides evidence, context, etc. Conservative just says no.

[@JebeckyGranjola]

Yeah, he does want to go back to Bush era, you just didn't think he meant Vice President.

[@sEdJ1281]

Debate highlights: "Is this your wallet?" *"No."* "But I found it on the floor right next to you." *"Never seen it."* "But it has your personal ID card inside of it." *"Hey what do ya know it does!"* "So it's your wallet then?" *"Nope."*

[@RapidBlindfolds]

The caller reminds me of the roundtable hosts on the onions ‘situation in Nigeria seems pretty complex’ 😂😂 the desperate intellectual peacocking, no actual opinions just trying to look like they know what they’re talking about

[@MrGemHunter]

I love how immediately animated Vaush gets when he realizes what he's actually talking to

[@DnD_guydude]

I wish Vaush had asked this question: “if you vote for the same people the crazies are voting for how is the elected official supposed to know the difference?” Like I had to vote Biden and I knew he wasn’t the progressive I wanted so, I was prepared to and have protested publicly. I just do not see republicans doing the same thing. I hear the groans in private but if you don’t like it what are doing about it?

[@Charlie-ji6fv]

I almost feel bad for this guy. He seems to be at least operating in good faith. But man he’s painful to listen to.

[@LizStaples]

He is likely too indoctrinated to see that he is on the side of demons

[@bobar57]

Good talk

[@mrman991]

It's like his cell phone is cutting out. I want the 30min of silence between words back

[@DoctorJellicle]

No hate to this guy (it takes a lot of courage to confront a large streamer) but this was a chore to get through.

[@RunningOnAutopilot]

Vaush debates a lagging npc Sorry to break it to you man but if you disagree with Tucker Carlson you disagree with the mainstream Republican Party

[@bhig3]

Yes. More debates!

[@joshuafreeman3609]

“I don’t… Uh, uh, I, um, I don’t… see that.”

[@jamenrinehart9107]

1) holy moly a neocon in 2022 2) he should definitely just go to the dems because he’s already got that liberal mindset of “our institutions are so great and so strong that we just wouldn’t allow fascism to happen because America is just THAT great.”