Thorin's Thoughts - Booths and Competitive Integrity

[@ellsin8586]

Booths are a necessity for CS tournament lans.

[@bakayt8797]

thorin always sounds so depressed when he adverts alphadraft lol

[@NightKnight1996]

Baka YT It's his soul being dragged out of his body as he bows down to the almighty powering that is sponsorship's

[@chevanl]

SuperFgdgdg He should just use a alphadraft intro or something, im sure they have a some intro or ad he can just throw in there.

[@bakayt8797]

SuperFgdgdg exactly

[@pkermen]

SuperFgdgdg don't be silly, gingers don't have souls

[@Jonasadler232]

Baka YT the beginnings of his videos are always depressing. lmao

[@G3ner0]

The event at ESL ESEA Pro League right now is fucking shit quality, I cannot believe how badly the players have it, sweating their asses off becoming dizzy endgame. No booths, players being able to hearing the other team, the crowd and casters being heard. Some great CS being played but this is a really really disappointing event.

[@TysonyoshiPvP]

C9: throw all flashes!!

[@TysonyoshiPvP]

***** CptShiba Yeah. It was exactly what I was referring to. As much as it hurt to watch as an nV fan, it was still a very well played and prepared match from C9 despite that, No longer afraid to say I'm NA in a Twitch chat now.

[@poglixyz]

***** I may be wrong but i think the only reason players are actually doing this is to make them fix the problem by exploiting it.

[@theruler2k2]

CptShiba Yup it's been going on since 1.6 and every team does it those who say they don't are lying

[@johanl648]

This is like one of the only way competitive cod is ahead of cs, its standard nowadays to have booths and I agree with everything thoorin said it's a must for the competitive integrity

[@xSnowyCatx]

that scene at the end :p

[@woOtcpp]

***** still waiting for "who is cArn?"

[@fernandolima9774]

***** meh, just a guy will god like team mates Kappa :P

[@rickhaakman]

***** sorry but what did meant with that IMLS? dont know what this means can someone tell me plz is it majors? in advance thank you for the reply

[@cutile1472]

R Haakman IEM medals (intel extreme masters)

[@rickhaakman]

thanks due for the reply now I know what he meant

[@TeHozHD]

The fuck is this T-shirt? i miss the old thorin.

[@SondreBKrogh]

He's in Korea now. It's pretty warm there.

[@giefnameplox]

***** So is England. fucking boiling

[@69xXSwagMasterXx69]

giefnameplox Egypt slowly chuckles at his comment.

[@Blacktimus]

MiiG MiGuli Pretty sure he nicked it off his mum...

[@DiegoLopez-bc3lt]

We need class

[@schmeed0000]

this video is sponsored by "flash A main, I'll see their faces"

[@joel6376]

The flash thing occurs in ql with teleports as well. Luckily there is an option to change the flash from white to black, making it less obvious. Another alternative that could be looked at is sampling the screen and setting the "flash" to the average colour/brightness rather than bright white. Or using some sort of blur filter rather than flash - the goal is to obscure vision, not paint the screen white. Overall the game should take this into account rather than organisers having to build booths. Esp something like flash which has been around forever.

[@elmichael009]

@thooorin Competitive paintballing also has similar problems with regards to the crowds influence on the game...

[@superduperwiiuowner]

Flash trick wouldn't work during this weekends matches, monitors are to high up and camera crews are standing between and in front of the players. Also watching the team perspectives you absolutely picked up on crowd noise through the microphones, although it was inaudible white noise. Awesome points brought up today thorin however I prefer watching open booth lans. +1

[@regimiro4888]

I played at this local lan once for league of legends with a team.It was pretty low budget so there were no booths, and there was genuinely a moment where an opponents "poker face" affected the outcome of a situation. The enemy team were trying to bait us into a trap using their jungler, and I saw their jungler smirk, I called that it was a bait and we backed. If we couldn't see out opponents we actually could have walked into the bait and been put in a much worse position.

[@sidewaysfcs0718]

i think the most viable solution to overcome the problems with casters noise but still keep the crows cheer effect is to just get better sound-cancelling headsets, they can cost alot, some pairs can go to above 1000 dollars ,but i think the investment is worth it

[@tnightwolf]

These problems existed also in Dota (ans still do in some tournaments), not flashes and sound of footsteps - the in-game sound isn't as important in Dota or LoL as it is in CS...but the casters and crowd noise and "tips" is a real issue. Imo every tounament organizer should look at what Valve did with The International. Added to the noise supressor headphones a sound-proof boot and teams not facing each other, but instead side-by-side. Like you said the game and competitive integrity should always be the top priority, i think that's the best way to keep a long-term relationship with viewers and crowd.

[@tnightwolf]

yopandas Well i don't follow any korean scene except some of the old warcraft 3 pro players which i used to see in some tournaments. I've never seen them using soundproof boots in international tournaments. The first time i've seen them being used was in TI1 so i used it as an example. But if it was first used in Korea i think it makes sense since, and it's only natural since its the prime country for e-sports.

[@DoedelFrank]

Awesome video as always, but i think it sounds weird when you say 'real sports'. Maybe you could call it 'traditional' or 'athletic' sports or something.

[@scorpman97]

Did anyone else notice at Cologne 2105, Taz had his noise cancelling headphones partially on his hat, which renders them useless.

[@TheMarkoSeke]

Dyrus said that he heard the crowd yelling at him to watch out, so he felt bad and purposely stayed and died.

[@charroworld]

thooorin what do you think about the drafts?! I think they should do it , like in football . For example, Having coach's from teams taking a paper to know who they will face , what game will be ( first match , second match , blue side , red side , terrorist , ct ) .

[@STARZxIROH]

In the last "Mic check" released by Riot you can clearly hear the crowd through the mic of the players; it could potentially ruin invade or such manoeuver. It was something that bugged me quite a lot when in the FGC (Fighting Game Community) on some Street Fighter tournament clearly you could see that one of the players played around hearing the arcade stick of his opponent (very loud), in a environment in which they just sit next to each other, and sometimes match are decided on just one hit, it's pretty disturbing. Some Pro-Players developed the habit to fake input to throw people who where using the sound away :D but as Thooorin says in this video it ruins competitive integrity and has nothing to do with skill at the game.

[@CloudCarry]

what do you think about the game being a few minutes ahead? surely that's not good enough, but it's something.

[@drewtv7434]

Hate to say it buy CoD had booths 3 years ago, they were the first to take care of this..

[@romain29461]

I agree this can change a game. I remember when i was at eswc 2013 there was a COD match last round last map and the guy was ninja defusing and the crowd started screaming, the player admitted in the post match itw that he checked the bomb cause of the crowd ... Gfinity booths need to be at every event

[@drb0mb]

yo wat about like settin up the venue so they give the audience members the disposable earphones like on an airline flight right, like you can isolate the players from the caster but what about isolating the caster from the players? that way the player/audience interaction is still there but only the audience hears the caster

[@lupinmay1]

Use uni-directional mics like Astro Headsets to stop the mic picking up casters and such.

[@mac82]

Could implement a similar commentary system to snooker, where the crowd have an earpiece. I'm sure someone could take this a step further and create a smartphone app for the commentary stream. The event could even run restricted Wi-Fi for it,

[@Simulator51]

To solve the mic issue, couldn't staff just force players to use a fixed and uniform voice detection level? It might be at the expense of the players having to speak louder, but its a plausible solution.

[@Simulator51]

Buttery Biscuit I mean yeah, booths are a great way around that, I'm sorta just spitballin' ideas here in the case where booths aren't present (less funded lan events, etc.)

[@hayleysnow4l]

I'm surprised that CS events don't use booths, most Call of Duty events do - at least within the last year or so almost - if not all Gfinity (as you mentioned), MLG and UMG events have used 'em. They too were having too many issues with crowds ruining 1v1s, occasionally for the win/loss. I can definitely see from watching streams how the booths sort of ruin the hype, or at least lessen it, however, it's a competitive environment, the game should come before the entertainment value - though, of course both are important. It's very different from real sports where generally most communication within teams there's a field of distance, not a few feet from one computer/set up to another.

[@LaurentCormier195]

Thanks Carn, I appreciate your message ;)

[@andreasblixbergcaldana5968]

On dreanhack summer 2015 the sound of the casters and the sound of the game was in general low and bad. I dont know if this was deliberately so bad and if that was just a lazy solution....

[@METAS0MA]

Ever since S2 worlds where Woong directly looked at the minimap on the big screen to cheat, I groan every year League doesn't use a booth

[@00HoODBoy]

i HOPE those issues and BO1 will be history after the major, i really do. would be great

[@voLumeeK]

At snooker events audience have radio headsets to listen to commentaries. And if someone tries to shout or even talk he'll be expelled immediately

[@MrMacAwsome]

I feel like alpha draft yelled at thorin and made him do his ad at the start with more enthusiasm.

[@IJammyJI]

Thooorin, will you be following Overwatch if it becomes a competitive esport?

[@natmadgwo6679]

JammyJ wut

[@alexfranz7772]

It hasn't even come out

[@BraisedBroiled]

Dynamic_C overwatch as in the blizzard game not as in overwatch the csgo banning feature.

[@CBUCK1994]

It won't be an esport

[@BraisedBroiled]

Collin Buckley IT has everything it needs to be an esport. The reason TF2 wasnt a big esport was because it was too comedic and unbalanced. Overwatch seems to be more serious and im pretty sure it will have a competitive mode

[@cornytheman]

it should also be able too pick between booth or not? :P strategi magy

[@jimgrey1627]

thooorin watch super smash bros melee apex 2015 and look at the player cams they have no protection from outside noises

[@reinaldolira5211]

One great example of competition integrity ruined by the crowd is the IWCI finals between INTZ x Besiktas. The turkish crowd was the MVP on the series.

[@HUGH-]

It seems MLG Aspen was the best setup

[@MonsterKlee]

what happened to thorin? i want the old thorin back =(

[@nickbelov5433]

Can you do a talk on how nA did so well

[@TheCorky42090]

Semi-new to watching CS:GO whats the flash trick? I mean I flash people every game is their a "cheating" kind of trick to it?

[@hundredandonenames]

He literally explains it in the video.

[@sharingiscaring1952]

Regarding the "Flash" incident. Couldn't you argue that Pro Players should learn to keep a poker face in order to avoid giving tells?

[@sharingiscaring1952]

brok21k 1 Ignore, didn't release it was the actual white reflection which was the tell :)

[@HyPeRQsZzZRaymond]

Why arent you ever at esl/esea tournaments, their missing out

[@thedananti]

mlg also had booths.

[@xzst]

It is pretty shit when you are playing on the highest level of competitive gaming, where a lot of money is on the line and then you can get ghosted on, because the other team can hear the casters (which obviously say stuff like "he is watching short" or "will he check heaven", etc.)

[@lucasmartin9611]

Hey man. Love your content. Do you ever feel like no one who can influence these things listens to your videos? What are your thoughts on that? I'm not saying that's true, I'm saying that's a thought that might creep in from time to time.

[@krunkfu7954]

thorins thoughts on c9 metos out soon?

[@Daantjer]

Same with ninja defuses and the crowd going from quiet to loud like wwwooooOOOOAAAAAHH, they obviously know he's defusing then.

[@imwawo]

More LAN's need to be like MLG with the sound proof rooms far far away from crowds, casters, and opposing teams

[@ventsiR]

Why not have earphones coming off the seats, where you can hear the commentator? Game sounds should come off loudspeakers, but the casters should be on earphones. Moreover, you might wanna focus on the game sounds, and not listen to casters, so its an additional advantage.

[@r0se838]

Because that's really expensive.

[@maeschder]

KnightCreepara whats the point of having the game sound through speakers then...

[@Heldarion]

KnightCreepara That sounds insanely difficult&expensive to pull off, especially if you don't own your own studio.

[@ventsiR]

Heldarion It's not that expensive, I mean there's at most, and I mean that's an extreme case, there's going to be an attendance of about 20,000. A pair of basic earphones cost around £2. That's £40,000, which is less than most prize pools, less than, perhaps, what the winners get, and it's most likely less than a dome. Maybe if they can get a sponsor deal, they can get them cheaper. Another option is to have a jack and have people bring their own earphones or headphones.

[@ventsiR]

ChuckNorris130194 There's not that much that the players can make off of the sounds of the game itself, so why not have it come off speakers. As I said, you can even choose what to listen to.

[@jdallatezza]

Soothing ASMR voice. PogChamp

[@LakseCraft]

I believe x games, which for the record was a very good event IMO, was in booths

[@BondieeeeXBL]

lakSeey MLG and Gfinity are partnered. So yes MLG would have booths

[@LakseCraft]

***** Oh, I wasn't aware of that :P Thanks for informing me :D

[@BondieeeeXBL]

lakSeey All good :) Partnership comes from the Call of Duty scene, which is why the gfinity games are often streamed on the MLG.tv platform

[@rabbit2840]

can't really blame the players for abusing the flash trick, especially if it's that easy. it's in their nature that they do everything to win

[@skatersridge]

thorin's thoughts - Na win a tournament

[@TheKristofuz]

i believe MLG had booths aswell?

[@dacul23]

Give to players unidirectional(pro) microphones will solve this drama !

[@sampepper8799]

youtubes algorith knows whats up

[@Boy10Dio]

fnatic's ceo can get an insert at the end of the vid and it will literally be seen by more than half the viewers of this vid unfuckingcanny

[@brillojoe]

ive been saying this about push to talk for ages its super obvious

[@gutautasvaliskis1505]

Didn't watch it yet but I know it's going to be good.

[@GWVanquard]

changing the camera angle is sooo distracting ._.

[@Gasolineh]

Throat Microphone comes to mind.

[@MultiTugatv]

Não existe Competitive Integrity a partir do momento em que se muda o jogo com patch durante o toda a época de competição ... é tudo uma ilusão. o que interessa é ganhar dinheiro com o jogo mais nada.

[@aime_33]

Thorin in a t-shirt? What?

[@silentz0r]

Thorin I like watching your videos, but most of the time it feels like you're overstressing points and some of your videos (like this one) could be approx. 4-5 min long videos, having covered everything you said. Just a bit of feedback.

[@oboyy]

lmao this is so annoying thorin, fix the bands on your headphones so they're symmetrical :D

[@123toresk]

C9 Gonna win vs fnatic

[@heronblue3577]

The people who defend c9 using the flash trick are fanboyz that hate when there beloved pros get negative attention. Also they justify it by saying, people have done it for years at LAN. Thats the dumbest way of justifying ghosting in a LAN. doesnt make it right. it just means alot of people ghost. still bad to do. Organisers are also to blame and will learn from this. P.S krimz also meationed in a video he saw Friberg get flashed but did he continue to use it? Nope. Integrity c9 integrity.

[@erica2980]

C9s job is to win games based on the ruleset and envirement presented to them. If the organisers didn't want the flashtrick to be possible it wouldn't be.

[@heronblue3577]

Marcus Rossi That's the dumbest thing i've ever heard.

[@erica2980]

Heron Blue And why is that?

[@TheGellerBing]

Marcus Rossi What a lousy way to justify that. Integrity exists for a reason, and every sportsmen should respect the integrity of the competitive scene.

[@TheGellerBing]

Heron Blue Well said. Like with ESL ESEA Pro League, it's ridiculous with the prize money involved that there is literally no barrier between the 2 teams. Get your shit together organizers.

[@charliedah]

Lol carn

[@VOZZIFY]

wtf carn

[@harryt8277]

1st