Tweek Talks about The Luminosity Invitational | Episode 148

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Edited by
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00:00 Intro
00:31 How everyone's doing
01:11 Charles W
01:49 Tweek going to card shops during events
04:18 What's up....
05:04 Pink's been doing well
06:53 Haz life update
09:07 Being able to travel to so many places because of Smash
11:40 Support our Patreon!
12:25 Lvl Up Expo being only B+ tier
13:52 The 'Summer of Smash' is starting
14:32 The Luminosity Smash Invitational summary
17:13 The standard for invitationals are set so high
20:39 How do tournaments get more engagements?
24:56 Congrats to Shadic for winning the event!
28:36 Learning how to beat Sonic
31:41 One particular strength Corrin has vs Sonic
32:45 Ultimate is starting to feel 'Soulless'
32:50 The Tweek Joker & Pyra/Mythra eras
36:05 Counter-picking goes a long way in this game
41:08 Game plans that work for every matchup
43:27 Why Melee succeeds so well
44:42 Game plans (etc.)
46:45 Why Cloud is so good right now
47:28 Minecraft Steve
50:41 Ultimate feels so simplified
53:40 Tweek is not a campy player!
58:24 Recent results and rankings
1:03:32 "Sixers should've won" & more NBA talk
1:05:23 Outro
#SmashBros #TweekTalks #Ultimate

[@EEvisu]

Going to that card shop with Tweek was my favorite thing about the trip lol

[@gearsekando7384]

What was the favorite thing you guys got?

[@quinkana1]

I've no idea why Steve isn't designed to lose all his materials when he dies in Smash. That keeps a cap on the walls he could put up, especially after every death and makes diamonds, gold and other resources more of a force multiplier that may or may not be justified if you get hit by the enemy charging at you while you're upgrading your weapons. Losing the materials is also how Minecraft fucking works.

[@justice8718]

Instead, he gains materials. Hahahaha. He’s so cheap.

[@theimpersonator7086]

Steve being loyal to MC would def make him more tolerable, kills his planking and survivability, and nerfs his camping. The char is also like 92 weight for some reason despite having a bullet hell disadvanatge lmao

[@nathanlevesque7812]

Best way to fix him is to put resources on a timer rather than mining for them. What's optimal goes from 'maximize resource pull and output' to 'maximize efficiency of each resource used'. No more spamming walls or iron moves, no more corner camping; they would go for normal stage control, and resources wouldn't vary by stage or position.

[@quinkana1]

@@nathanlevesque7812 tbf I'm relatively fine with Steve snowballing with no resources at the start so he had to win neutral quite a bit to put up the walls. Either that or just giving Steve a set amount of resources that he can use every time he's revived that makes the resources limited bc I never see ppl mining while fighting in Minecraft lmao.

[@alexmartin6561]

​​@@nathanlevesque7812Kinda like Robin in the aspect of conservation?

[@trombonegamer14]

46:40 Guys, not that long ago in the meta of this game, Zackray took Sonix to game 5 and beat Miya, *with Pit.* Pit is the epitome of a character without a broken gameplan, he simply plays smash bros. It's doable, it's just really hard.

[@phineasandferbrocks1]

Not sure if this was recorded before the announcement or not, but Lumirank confirmed that the rankings are back to 2 half-year seasons instead of a full year.

[@abghen2323]

Thank God

[@Weebfox]

Big W

[@Shellbastian]

HAZ DONT GET A JEEP! Trash cars and BMW’s will cost a good amount for maintenance but if you don’t drive a bunch it shouldn’t be too bad. I drive a civic and just put 150k miles on it after 7 years with no problems sooooo it was worth the investment

[@no_notes1229]

TWEEK - PLEASE DON'T SHUFFLE CARDS IN FRONT OF THE MIC !!!

[@h0w1inmaDStudios]

Haha i listened on spotify and it was driving me insane

[@HurtPower]

I cant finish the episode

[@trombonegamer14]

If NA players want their tournaments to rank higher, they need to attend more consistently. I understand that's super tough based on irl stuff that everyone has to deal with, but that's simply what it is. Japan has a big advantage just because of geography

[@GreyMafiaHQ]

and public transit

[@jasontoby1004]

The bit from Haz about how smash allows you to travel and experience different places was really neat to hear :)

[@dogAB]

22:32 I didn’t even know WTT 2 was announced wtf

[@Jumogas]

Holy shit I’m so excited for that one

[@CoNiferousTM]

When charles hit tweek with the “how about youuuu GAVIN” I was shook. I had the same face as Pink because I was caught off guard 😂

[@NiihiLo]

I love Charles rants, it’s peak smash convo.

[@trombonegamer14]

If the game is pure chaos, pure rps, it's wild how lucky Sonix, Sparg0, Miya, and Acola are.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

And Shadic. And Hurt.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

luck of the grinders

[@trombonegamer14]

@@nathanlevesque7812 bruh Sonix has literally been in every Grand Finals he's attended. Shadic hasn't missed a top 8 in months.

[@nathanlevesque7812]

@@trombonegamer14 ok? I don't know why you're saying that to me.

[@DrWavy-fq2qk]

Even without playing a crazy amount, Marss still gives these top 20 players a hell’ve a set. Bo5 would’ve went hard

[@jimhenson7952]

Tweek talked his shit he’s NOT a camper he just doesn’t run into people swinging like they’re waiting on let’s goooo that was fire

[@SadFace229]

From the part where Pink brought up his discussion with the local player who cracked the code on wrestling neutral control from Sonic just from standing on a platform, to where Tweek lamented that the game feels soulless and Charles' starting ranting about Steve, do remember that you guys "created" the game. If you don't like the game, change the rules! You know what you must do. For the successor Watch the Throne (WtT 2, or I'm sorry that name is too funny ), use a different ruleset, a different stagelist, Hazards on, or use a Brawl stage list, something! At least take the risk and try! The current stagelist filters out stages that have walls and we have a character who builds walls. In addition the top characters benefit the most from the current stagelist. What would it take to reassess the stagelist? yeah yeah I'm a spectator and blah blah my opinion doesn't count but am I REALLY asking for too much to experiment with the gazillion other tools and gizmos available at the behest of the Smash Bros development team? Am I asking too much to assess why Melee has more varied stages and more stage interaction than Ultimate? Am I asking for too much to recreate the magic of the Winner's Semi's set between Mango and Moky from Big House 11 in Ultimate? I would much prefer to see the scene decide to do a bunch of experiments and up saying "Oh my god we just made X,Y, and Z characters far more broken than ever before!" than to do nothing beyond banning to maintain the status quo.

[@gracefuldrowning138]

What is bro yapping about

[@antoniovillanueva1119]

I salute your answer. Well put.

[@extonjonas6820]

Like you said as a spectator that might be all fine and dandy but the game is setup in a way to maximize skill. That is why they have landed on the stage list they have. Melee would have like one stage if they cut out the jank. This game was built with a little bit of competitive play in mind so they take advantage of it. I say if the game is dead then let it die. Let's not start introducing random elements that hurt the games competitive integrity

[@SadFace229]

@@extonjonas6820 Stagelist is setup to maximize skill based on norms and thought processes from SSB4. The stagelist has not been reassessed for balance, accounting for the new conventions the FP2 has introduced to the game. So many Steve labbers talk about Lylat stage being a bad stage for Steve and yet we have yet to see it be put to the test. And I can assure you that the general player knowledge on Steve is low and even the game at large is low. Yes, I get it's really difficult to play against a competitive level Steve, but I rarely ever see a player jump in between the first hit of the Anvil and its landing hitbox. I rarely ever see a player use a multihitting move to pierce through his Up Smash and punish him. Even at the game at large, how often do you see a player shield SDI (Shield shuffle as its officially labeled ingame ) against a multi hitting move (rapid jab, Corrin's F smash charge)? For the uninitiated, Hold either both shield buttons, or shield + special so you can shift your shield with your analog stick without triggering a roll. Then you can wiggle your shield in the direction of an attack and roll right behind the opponent for an easy punish. I bring those points up to refute the idea that Tournament organizers and the community at large have extensively and rigorously tested the 90+ stages and found the optimal, most balanced stagelist for competitive play. Even Charles remarked about the Brawl generation where TOs introduced stages like Rainbow Cruise to counter against Metaknight (I probably am wrong on why it was legal, but the point is it was legal). Easy to visualize it being a solution to camping Steves. We have gone through no such experimental phase for Steve. And Pink's story about the local player who had an epiphany on platforms versus Sonic says to me that the game is much more balanced than people are lead to believe. I suspect TOs are discouraged from experimenting too much from the stagelist because it's a massive investment already to put together a tournament and you don't want to scare off competitors. The recent Lumirank move to unify rulesets will also discourage any more experimentation else their tournament won't be ranked meaning less incentive for top level competitors. But someone has to be courageous and do the experimentation and put it to practice. If the community feels the game is dead, at least try to revive it. Everyone would respect it more and have no room for excuse if you go through an arc of experimentation, even if somehow it ends up ruining the game even more. EDIT: Worst case scenario, bust out the handicap mode for offline tournaments for select characters.

[@boomstickYT]

Charles rants are amazing btw. This episode was fantastic

[@humouringg]

I knew hazz was gonna switch it up. i expect the unexpected so i always expect it.

[@joeycarmello]

I still don't get why tweek protested the event and then went on to talk about how it's time to buckle down and put the tie on like it's just a job. It's not like broken dlc characters were even present. I guess he resented being there? Isn't this exactly the environment where showing up like a professional and doing the job is necessary?

[@Inukitsoq]

God having Charles on this podcast elevates it so much

[@Zippybobjoe]

haven't finished the episode but every time Charles rants angrily it brings any episode from a 5/10 to a 9/10

[@Zippybobjoe]

Got to the Steve part. I am happy

[@5inistermm_109]

@@ZippybobjoeLiterally was thinking the same thing, charles has no issue speaking without a filter and i love it

[@WesleyFiles]

Sounds like a 10 year old with a deeper voice.

[@aruemaru]

Charles cooking Steve is nutrition for my soul

[@alexmartin6561]

40:54 Yes, Charles! Push him towards PT!😊

[@sethlee17]

Charles going off about Steve was 🔥

[@MasterAbeer101]

Shoutouts to Shadic for having that much composure and stamina to beat Sonix at the LG Invitational, I really do think he is Top 5 easily especially now with the rankings changes that were recently announced

[@nathan9392]

One thing to add to Gavin’s point about how the game plans are clashing, is that these game plans such as sonic, have been the same since launch and just have only improved. Unlike melee there are new styles that develop.

[@Moegivesmelife]

It feels like Tweek and Charles both have such a love-hate relationship with Smash 😅

[@Awesome24945657]

I knew haz was gonna do that

[@tropicalmonix1038]

Jeeps look nice, toyota has the reliability. Toyota is the better investment.

[@Amaling]

I don't even see how Jeeps look nice, fatass dangerous boxes of metal

[@diodorussiculus5293]

This part of Ultimate and Chuck's rant reminds me as Haz says of Melee but Melee during the 2-3 year stretch of HBox dominance. Slight tweak in rule changes and people figured it out and got another Melee golden age.

[@Broskispersonal]

Going to Vegas for Evo was amazing. The event was dope but seeing the city with a bunch of new friends was a memory I can't forget

[@Broskispersonal]

I love how tweek watches Charles rant and just laughs. Love to see a good friend ranting 😂

[@theodosiuspadua4503]

The nature of our format is that you have flexibility in your character choice. Characters are one note because if you lose game one you have 80 other characters to swap to.

[@UseYourTelescope]

Tweek shuffling cards in his hands the whole episode haha

[@rmlgaming2091]

Shadic now just needs to prove he can dunk on Steves, although we'll see if he can best Sparg0, his bracket demon..

[@crazykhespar8487]

He still lost more to Sonix than he won, literally just more games.

[@isaaceyfish]

He’s beaten onin multiple times

[@altraxia2074]

he lost to onin at diamond dust while neo 3-0ed onin though

[@isaaceyfish]

@@altraxia2074 sure but it’s not like Shadic has always lost to Steves lmao, the top corrins have continued to prove that they’re pretty decent against top steves

[@riqua27]

​@@altraxia2074he lost a close game 5 while last week he dunked on Onin 3-0. He is also not playing that well in that tournament!!!

[@5inistermm_109]

Tweek shuffling those cards like a dealer at caesars palace

[@tropicalmonix1038]

I agree with Tweeks point on his neutral over "camping".. he's simply choosing to stay in neutral and play it out over run in aimlessly at opponent and play into their game plan.

[@nevohyams]

"Jamal Murray Made a shot ✋🏽🎤" I'd love for y'all to talk a bit about the playoffs, great episode in general

[@RedMooseJesus]

I love how many characters are in this game. I love how varied things can be and how anyone can get randomly matchup checked or counterpicked. Sakurai made something DIFFERENT. Dont be upset because you're trying to play it like its Melee 2 and its not working. The idea Tweek put forward about counterpicking your opponent sounds amazing to me. I think if something like that caught on, it would change the whole competitive landscape. Theres 90 characters for a reason. Use them.

[@Spyder-Marth]

That is a DOPE thumbnail.

[@basebassguy]

39:49 Chuck has me wheezing at the Cloud smacking Steve's hand and saying "NO! Bad boy!"

[@rottentomatoplays]

I got a 23 grand cherokee and i couldnt say enough great things about it to be honest. It drives amazing, and reminds me of the range rover sport for comfort. Take one for a test drive before the BMW and youll wish you never left the dealership

[@jsu9575m]

The Atlanta Aquarium had a recent expansion w huge shark tank too.

[@steno_lab]

Yappiest tweek talks episode ever lol

[@flippysbackyard]

Oh shit has that intro guitar always been there?

[@rmlgaming2091]

It's new!!

[@Moegivesmelife]

@@rmlgaming2091 I think I've heard it a couple of times before!

[@2010bhood]

We’re in the Charles weekly rant era!

[@scass1100]

I don’t think I’ve ever thought of tweek as a campy player and idk why anyone has thought that when there are some super campy as players out there.

[@Xearrik]

I need that Krogers controller though! I even used to work there 🤣

[@supercanadian0640]

Live for the Chuck steve rants

[@WarrenValion]

Toxic Charles is the peak of Tweek Talks. Never stop please

[@mukinabahtx338]

i also don’t really see why tweek has been profiled as a super campy player. maybe defensive yes, but saying he’s a camper among all the other hyper defensive players out there seems wrong

[@Stephen-jy3ie]

I think it’s funny that everybody on this talk, sort of views cloud, and an answer to a lot of problems based on Spargo performances, but no other top player has even shown the ability to maneuver cloud the way Spargo does so I don’t think it’s really applicable. I don’t think tweaks cloud, even if polished would be a cola the same way spargo does

[@ko-yoshi]

Get a Tacoma, Haz. My truck rules, yours should too!😊

[@no_notes1229]

Tweek sounds defeated and bummed out, man... Hope he feels motivated again soon!

[@BOBSUSHI32]

So this is what it’s like to be first. Can’t wait to watch

[@ceteris372]

Charles is SPITTING

[@gardnerconverse5619]

Tweek was standing on business

[@meepbiscuit7749]

i knew haz was gonna do that

[@schwiftyrick6897]

Tweek Talks is my favorite Taylor Swift podcast for sure

[@danieldancer4065]

Charles talking about steve is facts and hilarious LOL

[@gkoala8360]

Huge fan of Chevy Impala or Malibu. Great gas mileage and last forever. My impala is at 220,000 miles and still going strong

[@rafisdead]

get the beamer!!!

[@Weebfox]

Smash deluxe with 0 other changes apart from big steve nerfs would be funny af

[@kimeriksson7445]

32:00 in... when do they talk about tweeks run & choice to go sephirot?

[@thomas2871]

ready for tweek to push that red button.. 😈

[@LukeHim]

Only halfway through but shoutouts to Haz for just going over the blatant dogging on the game statements of Tweek and Charles bc I know he's talked about how much he dislikes people doing that as if it's no big deal and totally inconsequential. Maybe it's more contextual but just want to say I felt it.

[@bmontane]

Marss said all that

[@mukinabahtx338]

yeah my thought was marss as well, he said very similar stuff on his stream recently about certain players having unchanging game plans and smash is less about player vs player these days

[@scatter3244]

Haz, GETTA FUCKING RUNNER

[@xkp13x]

What formats you interested in Tweek? Come to nats in Texas this year!

[@boomstickYT]

41:45 Anyone know who said this? I distinctly remember hearing it recently so it must have been a public thing but I can't remember who it was. Edit: I seem to recall this idea being used to explain why ultimate isn't as expressive as it should be at a high level.

[@mukinabahtx338]

i would guess that it’s marss. he talked on his stream recently about smash ultimate being less “player vs player” adapting to each other and more like rigid gameplans/characters against one another

[@boomstickYT]

@@mukinabahtx338 Yeah thats it, thanks mate. I remember him using the same phrasing as tweek here saying players' gameplans were "clashing"

[@NWXyndiLee]

Love Tweek talking his shit lmfaooo

[@HopelessInertia]

this has devolved this week into the sports and hating smash ult podcast hah

[@antoniovillanueva1119]

Shadic's win vs Sonic, was nothing short of epic.

[@nathangrim4420]

San Jose Mentioned!!! 🏒🦈📱💻🟠⚫️👨🏾🐍

[@jonteguy]

People not competing have answers in a vaccum a lot of the time, I think that's what you are talking about towards the end with the comments. It's like.. maybe sorta right sometimes but the answer is also out of context. If that makes sense, so it ends up being pointless.

[@camaraderie1233]

I wouldn’t buy American for your cars. Toyota or Honda are the way to go for reliability. Get a Honda Accord and you won’t have to worry about buying another car for 25 years lol

[@LtFred]

If this podcast didn’t have Charles being an older man, raised in a different era, and his ability to not be afraid to speak his truth, this podcast would be so much worse off. I get the fear of community backlash or cancel culture but to see the contrast between Charlie’s persona compared to everyone else on this podcast is shocking to say the least. I’ve been watching since the first episode and it’s great to finally see someone like Charlie’s being so forth right about their feelings/opinions with Tweek and many of the topics they discuss. Adult life and work can suck. Sometimes you have to complete tasks or do things to get that paycheck though. I believe reality is finally setting in for Tweek. I wish Hazmatt and Pinkfresh would speak their mind more as well. I feel this podcast could take some notes from Lights Out.

[@erikrevier4053]

I knew Haz was going to do that.

[@trombonegamer14]

Really happy to see Gluto bounce back at Game is Game. I'm sure Gluto and the entire nation of France are bummed that he didn't take the dub, but still a good result!

[@Krioni_]

I saw the Haz Shmix coming a mile away

[@KnTElixar]

I'm like pink I don't be seeing any of this coming

[@heartbreaker2485]

I 100% knew haz was going to throw it back for Pink cuz that’s what homies do

[@BOBSUSHI32]

Once again Charles cooked. One of the only few not scared to say the truth about steve

[@worldwideredsshow73]

You guys need to come through Low Tide City….apparently it’s the final one😢

[@Dougie02]

Tweek, did you throw this invitational? I'm asking for a friend.

[@mattchiarizia9647]

I watch every week souly to watch Charles lose his shit every week.

[@sinfinite7516]

Tweek I’m ready for you to move the meta forward, go ahead and counter pick and put on the tie

[@juwanpeace37]

Message to Charles: please help me with home improvementsssssssssssss

[@nathanlevesque7812]

We get it. You don't like walls. Cope and seethe, Chuck.

[@ko-yoshi]

Ok ok ok I’ve been waiting for tweek to hit counter pick god mode. PLEASE Seriously DO THIS I ONLY TRUST YOU TO PROVE IT

[@JonnyJayKhan]

A 10 person invitational with only 8 current top players and three of them being Sonic, GnW and Kazuya… and no non-NA players

[@quickhatch1656]

1:01:28 if you reword Tweeks comment it’s great life advice for perspective. “I’m still doing my best, things have changed a lot over the years, I need to be able to give myself grace.”

[@dspd0140]

Gavin Grindset LMAO

[@splish_tx]

I would give anything to see Tweek grind Rivals 2 when it comes out. I think he could be absolutely nasty with Maypul or some other setup character. Smash players should ask themselves if they play the game because of Nintendo IP, or because they truly enjoy the gameplay.

[@cameronpilling6675]

I’ve fallen out of love with this smash in recent months and just kinda waiting on a new game.. I still tune in though just for you guys at this point! Keep it up 🎉

[@jrexm_9694]

I wanna hear EXACTLY what you all hate about the game. I’ll patreon for that specifically. 😂

[@Spyder-Marth]

58:43 y'all need to preach this truth to MKLeo. Lost once to Maister as Corrin and then dropped her... Then lost once to Kurama as Marth and then dropped him... Then lost once as Roy (despite making top 8) to Shinymark then seemingly dropped him... Also where is ROB?

[@gerardoortega323]

More like he lost once with Roy in the very first game he played at the invitational with Light and seemingly gave up on him for the rest of the tournament

[@domgaar9933]

He kept trying with aegis though 😢. I think he just wants a character that plays fundies but ALSO has cheese/combacks w hard read punishes which is why he likes byleth joker arsene tried aegis and tried Roy

[@justice8718]

@@gerardoortega323 Tossing Light at him first in a B03 pretty much killed the Roy run. If he was given any other player, it would be completely different.

[@kingrhoam93]

54:36 are people really saying Tweek is campy? Tweek is the sickest ultimate player there is. Tweek's Diddy and Mango's Falco are the best things Smash has to offer.

[@cringewyrm]

did nobody want to talk about shuton and game is game, or did i just somehow miss it?

[@lowkeygaming7499]

It sucks seeing the state of ultimate and what it has turned this podcast into. I come back every week to listen to some of my favorite people in the smash community talk about my favorite game and it kept me going and interested. It was fun and encouraging, now I’m just sad.

[@legrandliseurtri7495]

''the state of ultimate'' 9 different players piloting 9 different characters have already won majors this year, many more have won lower tiered events, the horsemen era is basically over, why are people still complaining.

[@lowkeygaming7499]

@@legrandliseurtri7495 I’m not complaining about the meta itself, it’s what it’s doing to the top players that’s the issue. Almost the whole portion of Smash in this podcast was complaining how broken the top characters tool kits are in this game. Not exactly my cup of tea, I just miss the optimism.

[@cdLevo]

Let’s go Mets babyyy

[@Vontox]

VERSION PUT THE TIE ON