Vegetarian Diets and Health: Findings from the EPIC-Oxford Study - Prof. Dr. Timothy Key

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Recorded at VegMed 2016 / Aufgenommen beim VegMed 2016
© VegMed - www.vegmed.org / www.vegmed.de

[@bhaveshmalviya3328]

1 year ago i left redmeat , I now feel great

[@ohmslawyer3599]

That was nice - a well-balanced lecture !!!

[@ButterflyLullabyLtd]

I changed my diet to Plant Based Whole Food because I did not want to be a health burden on our daughter. I am proud to say I am now Asthma free thanks to organic plants.♥️

[@psiclops521]

This is a great study, but it must be supplemented by a lot of data before any conclusions can be drawn. For example, what if, in the weight gain over time category, it reflects muscle mass, with muscle mass being lost in later years due to loss of testosterone in men? In addition, maybe meat eaters tend to gain more fat, but everyone gains and loses the same amount of muscle mass, accounting for the change in steepness of the curve. I can think of a lot of factors that would influence many of these differences. The B12 difference may reflect not only B12 synthesis in vegans, but vegans may require lower levels of B12 than meat eaters. This can be true of other nutritional differences. The microbiome may be behind most of the differences, with synthesis of some vitamins lower or higher depending on the needs of the gut and other body flora rather than the needs of the human cells. I haven't read other comments yet, but I have a wager I will make and then see if I win it (I'm betting against myself so I both win and lose regardless of the result): most of the comments will draw conclusions not warranted by the data in the study but based on their own preferences...oops. only eight comments before mine. Not enough for a real conclusion, but there is a decent amount of thoughtfulness rather than prejudice, though I see one thread is the usual bickering.

[@colonyofcells]

so far, both the seventh day adventist health study 2 and epic oxford study find no significant differences in mortality among health conscious people whether they eat animal products or not. This epic oxford study does say vegans have less cancer, cataracts and kidney stones but vegans who are low in calcium have more fractures. For the seventh day adventist health study 2, the 4 super health conscious groups does seem to have slightly better longevity than the typical health conscious omnivore adventists. Most studies agree vegans have lower bmi so maybe vegans are sexier even if they are not living longer than health conscious omnivores.

[@doddsalfa]

Seventh day Adventist live the longest so you’re not right here

[@jlmur54]

@@doddsalfa Agree. I lived close to Angwin CA for many years and there was a ton of circumstancial evidence that Seventh Day Adventeists have a handle on diet.

[@kaylenedawnbuteaufitnessbu2282]

I'm writing a graphic memoir about my mother, and I was wondering if you or anyone else could tell me, if someone never ate green lettuce, seafood, nuts, or seeds, what nutrient do you think they may be lacking?

[@jonahwhale9047]

Was it only lettuce, or did she eat not cabbage, kale, & other leafy greens? Not a lot of anything but water in lettuce. Not enough information to provide a meaningful response. What did she eat?

[@kaylenedawnbuteaufitnessbu2282]

@@jonahwhale9047 She only ate iceberg lettuce, but she did eat cabbage sometimes, but when I sat down with all of the nutrients with a list of foods they contain, it turns out, she was only lacking in copper because meat has all of the other ones. I say this with a sad face, because I am a vegetarian, and I know if I studied vegetarian nutrition studies, it might be different. I'm writing a graphic memoir of how I used my health and fitness knowledge to stop my mother with mild dementia from forgetting me, and it worked, so I wanted to put this info in my book.

[@jonahwhale9047]

@@kaylenedawnbuteaufitnessbu2282 Fruit? I thought she might suffer from mild scurvy. B12 in the elderly is a problem, even for meat eaters which causes mental & neurological issues. It's due to the weakening of the intrinsic factor (IF). Vitamin K is also made by plants, and is found in highest amounts in green leafy vegetables. Minerals I don't know much about & depends a lot on where the veg are grown. Even meat in earlier days, e.g. the animals need supplemented.

[@TerrierBram]

The question is no animal products, verses animal products. This presentation showed that their research didn't make that strict differentiation. You put vegetarians who eat animal products along with the vegans, at key points, and then you see hardly any difference. Yeah, duh. So, the question remains why Greger M.D. does see such a sharp line between health of vegans and the others. Maybe because Greger focusses on vegan, as strictly no animal products, versus the rest.

[@theartificialsociety3373]

Gregor is a highly biased individual. A lot of things are wishful thinking. We've seen this pattern in population studies for some time now. That is the vegans overall don't do much better. Gregor puts on an act like the vegan diet is the healthiest diet and yet the mortality rates are pretty much equivalent. So what is going on? It could be that overall the vegans are eating too much junk vegan food or eating too much protein. Higher Uric acid means higher protein. Protein may be the single biggest factor for longevity.

[@VHelander]

If Greger is biased. Are you claiming most scientist aint biased? They do eat some type of diet. So should we just claim all are biased and not trust anything? And you are clearly biased with your last sentence. No study, no evidence -> useless claim. And yes we need bigger studies where vegans are separated into big enough cohorts to draw up some conclusions. Not one study but many studies.

[@theartificialsociety3373]

Viktor Helander sorry, "biased" was a poor choice of words. In topics where there is insufficient science, he makes some assertions as if they are obvious or true fact when there is really just limited evidence or no real studies. He is particularly big into spices, beans, fruit, high antioxidant foods, super nutrient foods. But he is a good guy and is doing great stuff. The vegan diet as he prescribes would surely be one of the healthiest diets.

[@TerrierBram]

Suggestive qualifications are no replacement for the countless of scientific publications Greger refers to, over a long period of time now. Yes, Greger is biased, but still continues with his references. Still continue, with his team, to check out around 25.000 publications a year. While the statistics of the poor health of western people don't lie. Everybody knows somebody with cardio-vasculaire problems or cancer. Well, could there be a chance, despite that humans dig up the facts, that these facts say something? Also because there are so many, in the mean time. "Until now ..." ~ Dr. Greger. New facts appear recently, and they seem to point a direction. The same direction as to notice that humans are herbivores, because of physiological facts. Reproduction, digestion and medical facts of people who eat a lot of animal produce. All these three universes of data point in the same direction. We thrive on plants, and animal products have an important drug like effect. Which is completely left out the discussion. The personal incentive, pleasure by eating fat, sweet and salt. Extra dopamine production. People don't know their selves, are indoctrinated with to project everything on something out there, and there starts the babylonian confusion. Know thyself. You are a herbivore, because of your physic. And this adds to the many health problems and positive messages we receive from vegans about health and feeling good.

[@chrisnamaste3572]

Not impressed by the fact that the presenter does not understand the difference between folate (naturally present) and folic acid (man made synthetic supplement) at 21:54 (since apparently this survey did not include supplements and therefore no folic acid was being taken).

[@courag1]

I am completely vegan and have approximately 4-5 BMs per day. When I ate meat, I went 2 or 3 x's per week. Not only was I full of it, so is this study. Their thumb is on the scale to show that there is little if no reason to be vegan. I got rid of my arthritis and asthma, my hyperhidrosis and high cholesterol. I had a bone which would not heal when I was on dairy. It healed after going vegan thanks to kale, the wonder food. My cognition is better since going vegan. My whole family is dead yet I am vegan and have none of the diseases they died of: breast cancer, and Alzheimer's. I will tell you that doctors like to take out organs such as the uterus, when their is no disease. If you look at whether a woman has NOT had a hysterectomy and whether she has, I look 15 years younger without having my uterus taken out then my friends who have. I am on NO medications. Whereas people my age which is 67, in the US, average take 3 and more often, even more medications such as up to 11. So obviously I am in better health, however, we cannot hurt the feeling of the people who like good news for their bad habits. That is what this study is about.

[@user-hl4ow3yo6g]

My dr wanted to do an operation on me for one uterine fibroid I was on meds to stop the heavy 24 7 bleeding then I went vegan it went away but my dr said it wasn't that so I went omnivore it came back I went plant based this time including only eggs and cheese after 3 mth it was gone again. Oestrogen in meat and fish grows uterine fibroids, they thrive off it and bleed heavily. Take out the oestrogen they die. Dr didn't know this ! And I saved myself a horrible operation

[@scrambaba]

veganism a cure for hyperhidrosis? Never heard that before.

[@marcomoreno6748]

How may we find out who funded this study? Vegetarian trying to go vegan but vegan fats are expensive where I live so I have to eat cheese. (I get BPV if my fat intake drops)

[@puchatek22ch]

It’s not satisfying to hear from scientist who presents the data: “I don’t know what those metabolites do” :/ Also we should think beyond simple BMI. Muscle weights more than fat so person can be “heavy” thus with high BMI but still lean.

[@jamesherman5708]

A pound of muscle and a pound of fat weigh the same. Are you trying to point out that muscle is more dense and hence takes up less space?

[@theartificialsociety3373]

Why can't they divide the vegans into two camps, high complex carb low protein low fat vs. the others.

[@FridaCrescencia]

I don´t know how your scientific background is, so sorry, if I comment only stuff you already know. For one, for a lot of their calculations they can´t even separate between vegans and vegetarians, because the numbers where too small. You need a certain number of people in a group, to have a chance to get significant results (results, where the chance is really high, that the effect exists in reality, and is not just a coincidence). That combined with the fact that only a small percentage of people get a certain disease leads to it being necessary to study A LOT of people from a certain group, to get good results. The bigger the number of participants, the more expensive a study gets. And the data is from the 90s, when high-carb-veganism wasn´t a thing as far as I know. So there probably is not enough data on those people, if there was even a significant number on high-carb-vegans ( let alone that I´m not even sure if there is a significant enough number of HCV today that could be studied) Plus from this talk, it´s not clear how they surveyed the eating patterns of the participants. They might not have the data or they might not have the data in a form, that you can easily use for calculations.

[@theartificialsociety3373]

+FridaCrescencia yes I believe you are correct. Plus the awareness of B12 and omega 3 concerns was much better recognized relatively recently so having it in practice for a lifetime would have been impossible. The mice studies have been limited in helping fine tune the optimal diet also, probably due to funding.

[@Chriscaew]

Yes, I'd love to see the results of that.

[@georgannecollett8047]

theres a problem when you lump vegetarians & vegans together & even doing a study on vegans alone is problematic ..as you really need to then also separate out bw those following the far healthier low fat whole food plant based (WFPB) diets & those who are ethical vegans, not a bit concerned about their own health....the really interesting study would include these low fat WFPB eaters, compared to those eating animals.....more & more are choosing to eat like this, so its only a matter of time before there will be large enough studies to inclyde them im specifically mentioning LOW FAT Wfpb because even many vegans who would definitely cobsider themselves conscious of their diets, are STILL dying of heart disease, according to Dr Caldwell Esselstyn bc of their high fat diets full of nuts..nut butters.. oils...avocado ...the higher fat soy products & coconut....whereas at least the low fat WFPB will generally skip oils together & be mindful to limit these other so-called 'healthier' fats

[@Mrm1985100]

On Uric acid in vegans: nutritionfacts.org/video/parkinsons-disease-and-the-uric-acid-sweet-spot/