Why SuperVillains Are Terrible: Fixing General Zod

[@pyroshell5652]

10:11..... just.... damn......

[@stevendiao1574]

i shed tears when the music begins

[@stevendiao1574]

he is so perfect as superman.

[@herrflantier3739]

eek barba durkle

[@matthiasmoylan4815]

John Williams created the most powerful theme in just a matter of seconds

[@alexman378]

That's why I think Magneto is one of the best supervillains on screen. I actually could see myself joining him if I was a mutant in this universe or even becoming him had I gone through what he had.

[@PatrickFlemingTheAvantGarde]

Alexander Angelus I'm baffled as to why Quicksilver didn't join him...it was set up at the end of dofp. Mags should have his brotherhood by now.

[@silverfangmoonhunter]

Magneto is right. Mostly, anyway. He sees that there are humans out there who want to oppress and kill mutants and he's not afraid to use lethal force to protect them. I certainly don't agree with his more totalitarian aspects, nor his ideals of human supremacy, but his understanding that trying to take the "moral high ground" through non-violence and playing into respectability politics isn't going to keep humans from killing mutants, despite what Charles believes (although I do have respect for what Professor Xavier is trying to do).

[@phothewin6019]

He's definitely one of the best super villains. He's got depth, he's understandable, he's the other side of the same coin (both him and Professor X have the same general desires/goals but different ways to go about them), he's smart, AND he's a very, very tough physical challenge for the protagonist (love the way he took over everything at the final battle of DoFP).

[@RantandBollox]

MAGNETO WAS RIGHT

[@alejandromolinac]

And don't forget how sassy he is! At least the Old Version of him...

[@dynamitejimi]

That's why First Class is my favorite X-Men movie. Matthew Vaughn presented Magneto is an absolutely brilliant way to me.

[@jugulator95]

dynamitejimi X-2 also has an amazing villain in Stryker

[@cometmoon4485]

jugulator95 You got that right! I feel not enough people appreciate Stryker when it comes to cool baddies.

[@dylang2255]

Here is the issue though, Magneto was a protagonist in First Class. Though in the original two X-Men films he was well done.

[@alejandromolinac]

I loooooooooved Stryker.... there was a tangible reason why he was they way he was... I think this video mainly applies to the MCU

[@jugulator95]

alejandromolinac the mcu is very hit or miss for me i like Ultron, Loki, Aldrich Killian, and Zemo. Every other villain is one note and terrible

[@geekcultureandmovieLover]

This video literally pointed out the problems with MCU and DCEU.

[@MichaelWalterVentures234]

I agree. 100%

[@bobbill3594]

Thanos disagrees

[@dcmarvelcomicfans9458]

@@bobbill3594 well of course he's the best villain that used to be Loki but Marvel ruined him in Thor Ragnarok and then killed them all in Avengers Infinity War

[@badmoviestudios8099]

Mandarin in Iron Man 3 was the most terrifying villain I have ever seen. No other villain have been so bad that I had to leave the theater in the middle of the film.

[@Wade_Fucking_Wilson]

Zack Snyder Zuck snoodle

[@barry2349]

Zack Snyder lol so true iron man was really shit

[@eternalnjem]

Triple A lol

[@rosalopunny3683]

same.. i was younger when i watched it and the only thing i remembered was the mandarin's messages

[@SpaceAlley]

You stay for Fan4stic? terrible.

[@okbrightside]

"If our hero doesn't lose something, then we gain nothing" what a fantastic line, so much that I'm setting notifications dude. I'm starting to love your videos and your guidelines for better movies

[@okbrightside]

And omfg I knew exactly what you were going to say at the end, yet it hit me just as hard ;-;

[@RantandBollox]

That's great to hear. Wait. No. That makes me sound a little twisted. I'm glad it hit you like I kinda wanted it too! Thanks for watching.

[@karnak333]

Good villains have to want something beyond "destroying/ruling the world/universe". A great villain doesn't want to destroy the world; he wants to build a world that is "better" in his eyes; and a writer has to make that believable. Magneto is the best comicbook villain because of this; he believes the world would be better because mutants are the next evolution. It's the same for Ra's Al Ghul, Joker, Loki, Kingpin. It falls inline with empathy as you stated, but that empathy comes from what they want in the end; and that want has be understandable and should be relatable as well. A good way to do that is to make them want something smaller and more personal that the hero also wants or wants the opposite of, for example a throne the villain thinks he more deserving of then his brother as opposed conquering the universe like Loki. Magneto doesn't want to just kill humanity; he just wants a better world for mutants like himself and that world can't exist if humans do. Kingpin doesn't want to rule Hell's Kitchen for himself, he wants to make it a better place for others. Joker doesn't want to rule Gotham, he just wants to spread the message of chaos. This is one of the reasons why Marvel villains beyond Loki and the netflix shows are terrible. What the villains want are cliched and we can't relate to them. We've seen the "rule/destroy the world" villains, at this point it's an overdone motivation. I think they could have had something with Ultron but they made him too cartoony and they rushed his character change, which was at the heart of making him empathetic. He went from being born to then wanting to kill humanity in less than a minute. If they took their time with him and that built up the change, they could have had a solid villain; which then leads to another problem with Marvel villains, screen time. Unfortunately, Marvel villains aren't allowed enough screen time to develop. Majority of the time they are on screen just to oppose the hero or move the plot. You have to give them screen time to develop their character and give them revelations, but instead they get treated like cardboard cutouts for the heroes to best.

[@SherlockHyde]

Yeah, I also like that version of Ultron, but that's partially because I just like James Spader. I really wish that there had been more done with the idea that he resented Tony Stark, because outside of that one moment in the boat where he has a quick outburst when someone mentions that they're similar, nothing else ever really comes of it, and it could have been a really interesting angle to take.

[@phothewin6019]

Ultron was wasted potential. He could've been a bigger threat without being an emotionless Skynet-esque robot. In the end, the heroes just had to gang up and "punch" him really hard. He was even cracking jokes as he was getting his ass handed to him: *Avengers gang up on him, he can't handle it, Ultron: "You know, with the benefit of hindsight- *Gets punched by the Hulk *Hulk gets on plane, Ultron: "Oh, for god sakes!", *Ultron gets murked, the audience laughs again I just could _not_ take him seriously with those jokes. He sort've _became_ a joke after that. His ideals were understandable: - Humans cause all of the problems in the world (which is true, so the audience can understand him on some level), therefore, if humanity is eliminated, the problems will cease. - He has the same goal as the Avengers (saving the world), just a different way of going about it. Different sides of the same coin, which is good. It's just that his execution could've been so much better. There was hardly any tension in his fights. With the way just a couple of Avengers disposed of him and his army, he could hardly register as a physical threat to them. He needed more gravity to his presence. I REALLY hope Thanos delivers. There is A LOT of potential with him. I like what the Russo brothers have done so far, but they haven't exactly handled a big super villain yet. I hope they give Thanos' presence the gravitas it deserves.

[@parkerboy795]

Egor's Egor Why cant a good villain just want to destroy or rule the world? Some of the best villains are just evil egomaniacal bastard that want to rule because they want power or want to destroy for fun. I like a villain who believes they are creating a better world, but I like a traditional villain who is just plain evil as well.

[@karnak333]

That's ok if you enjoyed the character; it's still at the end subjective. I just felt he was too cartoony, and not because of the emotion and jokes he conveyed but just his presence overall; he never ever felt like the menacing threat that he is in the comics. And another reason is his rushed motivation; he went from being born, to understanding the world and then coming to a revelation all within 1-2 minutes. They rushed the most important and empathetic part of a villain; their motivation. I liked Ultron, but I felt they could have done him far better and Marvel wasted an opportunity with one of Marvel's greatest villains. I certainly understand the aspect that he's a machine and thus he could be born, grow and change in the span of a minute, but that's sacrifices the empathy that the audience might have for him if they developed him instead. But they sacrificed developing the villain in turn for more action set pieces and checklists for future franchise instalments. I enjoyed Age of Ultron, but it had flaws, and I felt the villain was one of those flaws.

[@parkerboy795]

Egor's Egor I did like Ultron and I understand you re reasons for not being satisfied with Age of Ultron, but I wasn't talking about him. I was talking about the need lately for all villains to be sympathetic or have good intentions. It's a great way to right a character, but some of best villains are just evil assholes who revel in what they do, but they are still fun to watch.

[@hunterkiller1440]

How to make a good villain? Give them a reason. A good reason. Build upon that. Let us understand how we could relate to their twisted morality

[@JoãoPedro03s]

They developed General Zod in MoS very well actually.

[@Nostripe361]

@@JoãoPedro03s But they did nothing with him. He talks a big game but his plan is use a big blue sky beam to destroy/conquer the world. I think a far more frightening way of having him in man of steel would be instead of destroying humanity, he wants to use them. He could see us as a raw material that, with the right genetic and social engineering, could be turned into a new kryptonian race with him as our glorious leader. I could see him challenging superman by showing how chaotic and destructive we are while still so frail that there is a good chance that our species won't survive another century or two. So why not join him and lead humanity towards the path to greatness.

[@cesar6447]

no always, some villains works on being pure evil mass

[@clintonjefferson6494]

The best villain is a hero in his own mind.

[@noobydo3577]

It's amazing how everything he describes that a good villain needs, fit TDK joker perfectly. Heath's joker really is one of the best antagonist ever appeared on the movies.

[@inferno0020]

General Zod in Man of Steel is so underrated

[@WalterLiddy]

One of the reasons Amazing Spider-Man II didn't work - Electro was given motivation, but it wasn't in any way contrasted with how Peter would respond to the same issues, so he just feels like a misplaced character and the whole story seems like an assembly of unrelated parts. You have to remember that although having a complex villain is desirable, the story isn't ABOUT him. It's about the hero - and if the villain is just a sympathetic guy who has the misfortune of running into the hero, nothing is learned and there's no payoff.

[@Wade_Fucking_Wilson]

Venom new gob and sandman were worse...

[@thakidreese6043]

Zod was a great villain in Man of Steel

[@Alex94949]

This was amazing, really put all these comic book movie villains into perspective for me

[@LadyArtemis2012]

I like how your username is now going to be the first thing anyone sees when they scroll down to the comments.

[@RantandBollox]

I in no way pinned this comment purely because of his name, it was for his nice comment...I swear....all about the comment...

[@cbox7701]

As much as I love Marvel, I can admit the villains are always lowest points of the movies. Civil War had a really lame unfaithful portrayal of Baron Zeemo.

[@cbox7701]

Loki is THE only fleshed out villain in the MCU.

[@Aztyph]

The MCU also expands to the television series as well, ya know. Including those, then you have at least Kingpin, Kilgrave, Cottonmouth, and - if you consider him as the villain for the second season - Punisher. (Black Mariah was half-developed, and Diamondback had development... but it was pretty shoddy.)

[@Kauannn7]

Aztyph baron zemo of civil war was good, you understand his actions and why he did what he did

[@cbox7701]

+Aztyph I was only referring to the movies, but Kingpin is a great Marvel villain too. Cottonmouth is very menacing also. The thing is, they actually took their time to develop the TV series' villains rather than just making them rushed 1-dimensional mustache twirlers. Seem like Marvel does better with recurring antagonists than they do with 1 time antagonists.

[@cbox7701]

+Garou , the Wolf Well that is true, but he just didn't seem like all that big a threat like he is in the comics and Avengers: Earth's Mightiest Heroes.

[@Lp-eg7kz]

I actually thought zod seemed like a rational villain with clear motivations. I mean, you say superman lost nothing, but in bvs, Batman hates superman, the world even fears him.

[@TheDarkAdventure]

Slade.way7 Because he was

[@sebastiangomezletelier1367]

the fist act of man of steel sets up a lot of genuinely interesting shit: A villain actually designed to be an agressive warrior trying to save what's left of his world. (It would be cool to see Zod fight with his desire to do good versus his inherent agressive programing) An ancient civilization that designs it's offspring before birth, establishing a place, skills and mindset for them without they're consent (They could have explored this incarnation of krypton, but they only mention it) The clash of two civilizations, shifting between outright fear and hatred to genuine curiosity and awe (even Independence day did that better.) And a hero in the middle of those worlds, granted with the gifts of his homeworld but raised to be kind and humble by two good people, believing he will finally gain a place in the world by knowing the past of his species but learning that his place is here in earth, among the lesser but noble humanity. But most of these themes get ignored and the movie thinks this questioned are answered with christ symbolism and an action packed finale

[@prestidil8528]

How can you lose something you don't have?

[@Lp-eg7kz]

Presti Dil Good point. I guess what he's losing is his humanity, for everyone just forsakens him alien.

[@TheDarkAdventure]

Sebastián Gómez Letelier​ In zod's view he was doing good. So that first point of yours doesn't make sense. Rebuilding Krypton in zod's view was the right thing to do even if everyone on earth had to die for it to happen. That's the conflict of the movie. 2 characters in opposition, both doing what they feel is right. I wouldn't complain about them not delving further into the history of Krypton. This is the most we've seen about Krypton in any film adaptation and one of people's main hates about the movie was that they spent more time on Krypton. I agree with you though. I'd love to see a Krypton moive that discusses the morality of programming babies and the thought behind destroying their own planet. Along with a New Gods film. This wasn't a clash between two civilizations. Literally it was but for the plot of the movie it wasn't. It was Superman vs his birth home's customs. It's shown even that the custom on Krypton is to program the kids for tasks they can't pass up but Clark was a natural birth and could choose his own destiny, so even superman's birth was at odds with Kryptonian culture. Humanity was at stake though and they were facing extinction, but that was more of a consequence of Zod's mission and Superman's mission. I still get what you mean though. In past films when Zod shows up everyone fucks off and does nothing but watch superman fight. In this movie at least they help fight back lol.

[@dannyhuskerjay]

Wow that sounded like an actual superman movie. Superman has said many times humans continue to show him why he has faith in them.

[@lorki3]

Joker in Dark Knight did this amazing

[@RantandBollox]

He did indeed. I was cutting this at the same time as my Dark Knight video so it was easy to see what a good villain can do!

[@geralt7511]

nice vid BTW i loved your fix for the BvS video, wish you could get involved and help the studios they don't know what the hell they r doing.

[@jamesburgess2k]

This video was fucking amazing

[@NeroIML]

The colour... The colour you added... So simple, yet so beautiful!

[@guyr3618]

This is terrific. Subscribed. I did think you were really underestimating Ultron, though. That movie had flaws, but Ultron was an extremely complex and understandable villain, who was actually RIGHT about almost all of his points. Every word that came out of his mouth was gold.

[@elmichellangelo]

There is one billion villain and you choose the one you shouldn't??? God damn it just say you don't like the movie

[@RantandBollox]

I check in after a break and this has 70,000 views? What the heck is happening on this channel? Thanks for watching everyone. But especially you. The one reading this. You're the real hero.

[@t.c.dewitt1320]

That last moment, your impassioned words, the swell of John Williams, the re-colored images of Man of Steel... tears. Thank you.

[@RantandBollox]

Couldn't ask for more than that. Thanks for watching.

[@perpetuaonyango7851]

Thank you for changing the color palette in man of steel scenes. Also great video!

[@RantandBollox]

Thanks. The colour had to be done!

[@Figgy5119]

"what KIND of bookshelf?" XD

[@MarkFilipAnthony]

Eh.. wait what? did we see the same film..? o.O Clark had it better after Zod?? Clark lived peacefully with his mother and saved people casually before Zod showed up, living in his own privacy. Zod forced Clark out of hiding, exposed him in front of humanity before he was ready, causing him to unprepared clash against a force more powerful and intelligent than him. Causing humanity to fear the icon superman due to metropolis destruction, even though he saved everyone. Zod gave Clark the option of finding himself, rebuilding Krypton and live a life with fellow Kryptonians, instead of with humans that he can not relate to. He forced Clark to make the choice between finding his past or saving humanity. Does the superman in BvS look like a happier/better person than he was in the start of MoS? no.. ......................................... Zods thrive and goal was relatable and relevant. He wanted to save his people, he was the last of his kind, struggling to survive. Trying to save his race. He was everything Clark wanted and/or needed to figure out his past. He fills inn every single option for a good villain you are summing up in the start of your video... The only reason Clark won in the end, was his kindness and openness to work together with humanity to help him defeat the Kryptonians.

[@brown6532]

MarkFilipAnthony Thank you! I've been looking for this comment. Zod has been the best DCEU villain so far and was better than most MCU villains. He had well defined and believable motives. His presence had consequences even after his death. (Something that most superhero movies suffer from... Lack of consequence)

[@darkbrandon8431]

This video is great but if you hear me then I would say zod is a great villain. He has clear motivations, he is ruthless, he is frightening and yeah he is a bit of a dick when he is enraged. That's what makes man of steel great for me.

[@thakidreese6043]

@Rant and Bollox Zod is one of the greatest superhero villains of all time.

[@mishatarkus]

I'm gonna grab my snacks. This is gonna be good.

[@mishatarkus]

Hm, alright. A few criticisms, this time, despite the fact the video was still good. One: The editing and pacing felt a lot less polished in this one - it feels you rushed this out the door a little. It takes over half the video for the topic mentioned in the title - fixing Zod - to become the focus, and it isn't mentioned at all beforehand. Also, whilst a self-mocking joke here and there is well and good, it feels you overdid it a little at times and it pads down the video a good bit. From here on out I consider it more like personal opinion on the video subject than quality criticism. Two: I disagree with the quick, "this is what you do" points and think any form of such solid statement is dangerous. No, a villain doesn't have to be a physical match for the villain, or a general power match - I'm gonna go a bit weeaboo here and mention that in a certain piece of chinese pictographs, one of the most memorable villains in the genre could be easily defeated by several heroes in his arc... if they could find him and fight him fairly. A villain that can be a legitimate threat despite not being a 1 to 1 match is one of the most threatening kinds, I feel, and it's partially why Lex Luthor vs Superman works - although I'd say this is where I think you should've put more focus on villains as challenging aspects of the hero. For example, in Lex vs Superman, it's the pinnacle of humanity, Lex (handsome, fit, intelligent and wealthy) jealous at a superhuman being that wishes to be human among us, and where that jealousy takes him. Similarly, the hero doesn't have to come out of it worse than he started. What's important is that the villain forces him to change or evolve - this doesn't mean his life has to be more miserable by the end of it. Overall, it just feels like this was something you scribbled on in a quick sketch of how the video would look like and maybe that aforementioned rush didn't allow the argument to be properly chiseled and polished. Three: I think you skim over the "main" issue with villains several times but doesn't manage to name it - internal logic. A good villain is one you can see thinking, you can understand the logic behind his actions and why he acts the way he does. This is entirely different from a sympathetic or agreeable villain - he can still be a complete monster, but it matters that we understand what he wants, what he stands for and what lengths he'll go to win. You actually say this in the video, but in other words, and it kinda mixes and mingles with the idea of an "agreeable" villain. A villain doesn't have to be agreeable, he just has to be a character rather than a plot device, in my opinion, and a good one at that. Overall still a good video but it felt a lot more "rambly" than the last few ones - I think it didn't quite have the same level of thought and polish as "The Witch", "Dark Knight" or "Fixing BvS". Mind you this is just one man's opinion - and I plan to accompany your work all the same, and can see the point you were trying to convey. Keep up the good work. PS: Why do you put (HD) at the end of the video titles? Just find it a weird little thing.

[@RantandBollox]

Hey Misha, Just in a bit of a rush so can't give you a full response right now but always appreciate your response. One quick thing about the video that might not be clear at this early stage is that this is a different category entirely than 'Digging Deeper' so it's not intended to provide the same in-depth analysis, and is more of a quick 'rambly' version on purpose. We've put in a new logo system to help with differentiating the types of videos we'll be putting out. The 'Digging Deeper' is certainly intended to be a different beast than this! Didn't want you think I'd already started slacking off. The previous one (on Horror movies) is the same short sharp burst at film's in general. Hope that clear things up, I'll check back later.

[@mishatarkus]

Hey! Thanks for replying. That does clear up a lot of things - and as I said, I don't intend to make it sound like it was a bad video by any regard. I do think that logo system would help differentiating between different kinds of videos. As always, keep up the good work.

[@RantandBollox]

Not a bother, , thanks for checking it out of course. I think the smarter half of us is us is also going to add a little intro moment to each type of video we do (as he will be creating video game related content) so that way you'll know what kind of vid to expect within a couple of seconds! Really appreciated your points too, and now you know the video's style I think you know why I took the short-hand version. You're totally right in the idea of 'internal logic' and so on, but I think you can see the difference between this and something 'serious' (as much as I can be!)

[@KingTek]

the t-1000 is a good example of a villain you dont emphasize with at all

[@MrHasankk]

Zod was one of the best villain

[@forgottenpotato9868]

MrHasankk Not at all.

[@kuyanatnatdkrx7]

Zod was a good actor but the character and motivation needs work

[@redleader6186]

kuyanatnatdkrx7 What do you mean they need work?? Did u even watch MoS?

[@thakidreese6043]

kuyanatnatdkrx7 ^^^

[@DanielTorres-pw8il]

@@kuyanatnatdkrx7 nope

[@colleenross8752]

No villain is 100% evil: Emperor Palpatine wants your location Ego wants your location Percy Whitmore wants your location

[@shotbro4998]

Colleen Ross, the list continues: Frank (Once Upon a Time in the West) wants your location Angel Eyes (The Good, the Bad and the Ugly) wants your location Scar (Lion King) wants your location

[@Yono_A1533]

General zod was an amazing villain in man of steel

[@hnjahnjah]

Absolutely love your videos and how little you change to the overall story/script to drastically different effect. If only the writers in Hollywood had half a clue as you,we'd all enjoy a lot better movies.

[@RantandBollox]

Very much appreciated, thanks for watching mate.

[@highlandcommando]

All that aside, the main question on everyones lips remains unanswered Have the producers of the DC cinematic universe taken away Wonder Womans Invisible Jet to ground it in the real world, or is it to shoe horn in Turkish Airlines?

[@RantandBollox]

They were storing all the great DCEU scripts and ideas onboard, but then they lost the plane.

[@petersmith9633]

Apocalypse was the worst villain in film. He was evil for evil sake, ultimately self-centered, and with no other motivation. At least with Zod, we knew he was a product of Kryptonian design, and was a slave to that design. It would have been nice to see them explore that aspect in the film. A people that were genetically created for a specific function rather than natural born people who must find their own purpose, and in doing so, Clark could have found meaning in his own life and come to understand why he should do the right thing, choose humans over Kryptonians, and even kill a few to save many. All the pieces were there, but nobody to put the puzzle together.

[@RantandBollox]

Yup...that's exactly how I felt. So much potential thrown away so they could have a meaningless brawl.

[@kaharismith-brewer3800]

Peter Smith That is exactly what the movie was about. Did the fifty monologues about making choices go over you guy's head?

[@petersmith9633]

Yes, but the film just did a shitty job approaching these themes and only did so on a superficial level. Oh, why bother. Fan boys live in the butt hurt.

[@kaharismith-brewer3800]

Peter Smith It really wasn't on superficial level. The whole movie was based around the choices that the characters made. Superman's ability to choose what he wants to be and Zod's inability to choose not to protect Krypton. It really isn't superficial at all. But why bother, haters live in the butthurt (whatever the hell that means).

[@Wade_Fucking_Wilson]

No sorry. The worst CBM villain is leto's joker

[@tiberiuskirk2593]

How to fix Zod: 1. Make him some kind of warcriminal. Have Zod and his army be a rogue Krytonian element. Extremists, but give that extremism a cause: survival of Krypton at all costs. 2. Give him super powers before coming to Earth. So the Kryptonians are super advanced, with the knowledge that when in distance of certain stars, they get superpowers. Have Zod abuse this, using it to conquer worlds, subjugate people. "Kneel before Zod." 3. But more to the point this makes him an immediate threat to Superman. Superman is now the one unfamiliar with his powers, and now Zod has long mastered them. There's a line in the film where Zod says he was a born and bred warrior and Superman is just a farmboy. Have that line mean something. They may be equal in strength but Zod is much more experienced. This makes it an uphill battle for the underdog farmboy Superman to beat the veteran warrior general Zod. Instantly more tension is added to the fight. Imagine if Darth Vader was just learning his powers when he fought Luke Skywalker. It wouldn't make sense, and neither does having Zod learn his while he is fighting Superman. 4. Have him purposely involving the humans in the fight, while have Superman desperately trying to protect them from him. Instead of having General Zod fight a callous Superman who doesn't give a shit about the collateral damage he's causing, make a point of having Zod deliberately try to harm humans in the fight to force Superman to save them thus distracting him from the fight. This solves the issue of having an actual caring Superman and adds more stakes and tension to the fight. On top of fighting the much more experienced Zod, Superman is at a further disadvantage by being forced to save people from Zod while they are fighting. This was done well in the first Avengers movie where on top of fighting the aliens and dealing with Loki, more stakes are added when the heroes have to endanger themselves further by saving as many civilians as possible. 5. Don't kill Zod. Superman in any good incarnation doesn't kill. Fuck off Zack Snyder.

[@Aztyph]

Superman *has* killed villains before, even in the comics. Hell, if I'm not mistaken, there was one Post-Crisis comic where Zod and co had done such unspeakable atrocities that Superman carried out their sentences himself. The ramifications of taking a life fucked him up so badly that he swore to never kill again if he could help it.

[@xKingx16]

Zod was the main one causing destruction,I don't get the complaints about destruction. It's two titans fighting jeez. (one of which had never fought before)That's another reason Doomsday's presence was so weak in BvS. He barley caused any destruction & everywhere was conveniently abandon. No sense of Danger at all. Reeve Superman killed Zod,Superman always kills Doomsday. Anywho,Then Superman would have to acquire/build his Phantom Zone Projector. Which would show-case his smarts. He should use the tech from the device that imprison Zod to build one. This actually changes it to brain vs brawn sense the scenario you named,Kal shouldn't be able to best him in hand to hand. They should do away with Zod wanting to destroy/terraform earth as a whole.Maybe him and a few others escape the Phantom Zone ,He wants to get the Codex from Kal to free the rest of his army,so they can rule earth and have kryptonians once again prosper.

[@tiberiuskirk2593]

We as an audience need to see the heroes be heroes. We need the emotional connection of Superman saving people. Yes, Superman saves a few people here and there in MoS, but only when the script allows him to. Superman smashes Zod against a skyscraper, sending large shards of glass and chunks of debris crashing to the streets below. Zod throws a truck tanker at Superman and Superman calmly floats above it, destroying a building behind him. Zod destroys a satellite, showering the city with debris. Superman deserves his collateral damage man moniker because there is next to nothing in the script showing otherwise. Superman takes the fight to Smallville, devastating it. How about have Superman show fear and worry that they are fighting in populated areas? When Zod destroys a Skyscraper, have Superman use super speed to fly around inside it saving the people in it? When Zod showers the streets with debris, have Superman vaporize it with his heat vision before it hits the people below? Again, the audience needs this confirmation the hero is a hero in the Superhero movie. Superman isn't Godzilla, he's Superman. And Superman saves as many people as he possibly can because he is a hero.

[@xKingx16]

Tiberius Kirk No disagreement there. I'm like 90% sure hovering over the Truck was something Snyder thought looked cool & didn't really think about it. ...like Superman making out with Lois after the city is leveled.

[@koushikraja331]

"1. Make him some kind of warcriminal. Have Zod and his army be a rogue Krytonian element. Extremists, but give that extremism a cause: survival of Krypton at all costs." that was what zod was in the movie, wasn't he?

[@SaintsBro217]

In my opinion, a villain that is completely, utterly malicious can work, but they need to have a substantial philosophy in order to hold weight. For example, The Joker is a villain that constantly claims not to have a purpose for what he does, he just finds it funny to hurt people at the expense of Batman. The impact doesn't derive from Joker's need to hurt others, but the sheer audacity of how meaningless his violence is when presented in the perspective of someone like Batman; whom holds a view of absolute order and justice. Joker presents a flipside, hereby making his malicious intent a threat to the audience because it goes completely against everything Batman stands for. Indeed, while Alan Moore attempted to bestow Joker's character with a dash of sympathy in 'The Killing Joke', the underlying theme of nihilism remains paramount as Joker perpetuates the enigmatic nature of his past. Still, I agree with pretty much everything else about villains in this video. Subbed.

[@RantandBollox]

I agree that the comics Joker has a streak of anarchy that places him into the ''pure evil' category that people try to say exists, but I maintain applies to inhuman characters (Alien, Mike Myers, Freddy Kruger etc.,), though my video on the Dark Knight looks at how Nolan fleshed out his Joker into a more rounded character with internal logic like I suggest in the vid. Thanks for watching!

[@barry2349]

Rant and Bollox sorry in comics joker is a mobster

[@scottmialltablet]

Not entirely on board with Point 1; I get where you're coming from - I think - but the way it's phrased and described I think needs work. It shouldn't be obvious how to overcome a Villain, or it should be apparent that the "easiest" way to overcome them is not the best way. Sure, Hulk can punch Loki really, really hard - but will that defeat Loki? Holmes and Watson could shoot Moriarty, but would that defeat him? Etc. Saying "Nearly impossible to overcome." is too generic and too narrow a focus, IMO, even though I think I agree with the overall point. Point 2 I have similar feelings on - I think I get what you're trying to say, but I disagree with how you say it just enough that I'm not sure how on board I am with it. Point 3 I'm completely on board with, as well as the rest of the video.

[@RantandBollox]

I didn't think it referenced that it should be 'obvious'? Isn't that what I was railing against, that it shouldn't be down to just punching someone to win? I would say it's also not a narrow focus, but a very broad one? Otherwise (even if it happens anyway) I'd be accused of promoting a 'formula'.

[@roaringtiger1094]

Great villains in comic book movies: Ra's Al Ghul (Batman Begins), The Joker (The Dark Knight), Loki (Thor/The Avengers), Red Skull (Captain America: The First Avenger), Alexander Pierce and the Winter Soldier (Captain America: The Winter Soldier) Helmut Zemo (Captain America: Civil War), Magneto (X-Men: First Class, X-Men), William Stryker (X2: X-Men United), Doctor Octopus (Spiderman 2), The Penguin (Batman Returns), The Joker (Batman), General Zod (Superman II).

[@RantandBollox]

Some really solid ones in there for sure, even if I wish they had of done more with Red Skull! Thanks for sharing.

[@miloradmickovic2831]

I kinda liked Ego up until the point he revealed his plan....seemed quite sympathetic and relatable,a father looking for his lost son. But they ruined it for me when they showed his true intentions...conquering the universe...come on. But hey,at least he was a lot better then Hela or Steppenwolf....those two were utter garbage. From this year the award for best villain tbh-Vulture.

[@camethedawn683]

I posted some comments earlier but deleted them. I have a different view. I know what you're trying to say, I still think you're mistaken. A 'hero who went the wrong path' is not the only type of villain or bad person a story can have and certainly not the only type of bad person in real life. It depends on the story, and genre. In real life, people can and do do bad things for various reasons. You seem to think all stories must have the same type of villain, the 'understandable one' but this is not true.

[@camethedawn683]

LP: could be greed, being socialized to be a bigot or racist, lack of empathy, sociopathic, so they are self serving, seeking self gratification, you name it. Sometimes a bad person is simple. Then there's those who grew up in a poor and abusive environment pursued crime. But that is one type of villain for one type of film. Then there's the film that uses archetypes, broad generalizations, simplified good and evil, more fantastical elements to tell a story. Or either the good or the bad can have depth while the other not. Depends on the type of story. If you're finding you're not liking the broad archetypes of the villains in the recent spate of superhero films, then perhaps the genre where they are supposed to be used is not for you. Perhaps you should focus on other types of superhero films, not the current types. A villain like Lecter might by out of place, even a burden to a story that calls for a far less complex, less sympathetic, simple villain, evil archetype, just as the archetype would not be a good fit in Red Dragon or Silence of the Lambs. It all depends like I said on the story. I hope I could clear things up.

[@camethedawn683]

***** 👍

[@RantandBollox]

Hi there, I completely agree there are many types of villains, and the idea of 'understandable' isn't to imply they must be 'sympathetic' in the sense of pity for their suffering, but in the sense that we can see the cause and effect of their actions and why they are doing what are. Comics are broader for sure, but something like Kilgrave's depiction in Jessica Jones showcases a character that is understandable but in no way one we would agree with. And he isn't just one-note, and can do outright cruel and vicious things. But everything he does is believable and build upon a personality we understand. He doesn't take actions or paths simply because the script needs the hero to end up at a point for the big finale. Genre and story (and in Kilgrave the benefit of time) are definitely crucial to what you can get away with for sure, couldn't agree more. So while I focused on supervillains, the list of villains could have included characters like John Doe (Se7en) who does bad things. But 'hero on the wrong path' is more a writing conceit when taken in this larger context. Few (if any) great villains see themselves (or started off seeing themselves) as a 'villain'. Everyone is the hero of their own story, and then things go awry. Even John Doe, who acknowledges what he's doing as horrible, believes in his own mind that he is doing the right thing. Thanks as always for your insightful responses and thoughts!

[@camethedawn683]

Rant and Bollox Thank you for your replies. One thing, I do hope comic book villains are written so that you can enjoy them more. I wouldn't want to be the only one enjoying them, half the fun is in the shared experience of the culture. Personally, I'm very inconsistent with what character I like, depends on my mood, so I couldn't tell you what my favorite is. So far the closes to a lasting favorite is Kylo Ren. I like Kylo.

[@RantandBollox]

No, thank you (I have to be here!). Yes heroes, villains, movies in general, are just like music really. Depending on the mood my favourite will always change too.

[@hnjahnjah]

7:50 Nailed it,especially with the scene you showed. By far my favorite X-men movie because of how greatly written Magneto was in that movie...he does some horrible stuff in the film,but everything he does you can totally get behind,you can understand his motivation,his drive. If someone did to me what Shaw did to him in that movie,i'd go to the ends of the earth to find him and get my revenge.

[@ScotsDestroyer]

the only good villain i have seen with marvel is Loki.

[@Aztyph]

Kingpin, Kilgrave, and Cottonmouth all say hello. (Hey, you never said that only movies were on the table.)

[@xKingx16]

Can't stand him & I don't know why people like him. He's a villain playing the victim,which is why I can't buy into anything he says. The Netflix Villains have been great.

[@ScotsDestroyer]

yeah was only thinking of movies there. but damn how could i forget Kilgrave? Jessica. . . Jessica. great role from him. also Kingpin, that guy just oozes strength and focus. never really liked cottenmouth, just seemed like a plastic gangster.

[@Aztyph]

DevilsBathtub While I myself don't think that Cottonmouth is on the same level as the others that I mentioned, it's undeniable that he has a *very* sympathetic backstory, and it's very much understandable why he's in the position that he's in. I personally think he has far more nuance than most of the villains in the MCU - not that that's difficult, but still - and that's why I mentioned him.

[@dylang2255]

MCU tv villains are great but also have the benefit of more time to develop them. With the MCU movies they just can't seem to get it right. Mordo has potential to be the next great villain.

[@dorsk188]

Watched Doctor Strange recently and have struggled with exactly where they went wrong with the villain in it. On paper, it's all really solid stuff: Mickelson suffered loss and sought to end that suffering for all the world by ending time/death, and it dovetails well with Strange's own journey of loss and drives home the deep hypocrisy of the Ancient One, who dabbled with the same force to cheat death and time for herself. A lot of Strange's script hits all those right notes, but it's been so abbreviated that you have to go looking for that depth instead of having it be the focus of the film. And so often the tone doesn't match those more nakedly tragic elements and moral grays. It was a rushed movie overall, but the lack of real character moments for Mickelson really hurt what could have been a really strong character, I think.

[@RantandBollox]

Yeah I think Kaecilius had a few nice touches but it really was without set-up or payoff and relied on Mads just being a really solid actor. I did appreciate that the big villain was defeated by intelligence instead of brute strength for once though. So not a perfect film by any means, but at least some progress in the right direction.

[@ccfanatics3577]

zod is the best villain ever. because even though we were all supporting Superman, deep down, we actually understood Zod idea. He had one job and one job only which is ensuring the survival of his people, and man he gave his all to defend his cause. Michael Shannon was absolutely brilliant

[@jeremybrown9611]

Zod was stupid, irrational and illogical, well the movie version that is. Everything about Earth scream that it was better the way it is, you don't need to terraform Earth into Krypton. It's a young planet that you can inhabit and it makes you stronger. Kryptonians are smarter than humans, but Zod wasn't showing any level of advance intelligence. Plus he died on 1st encounter!

[@ccfanatics3577]

jeremy brown you see here is the problem with your comment. 1- there is a quote from superman father telling zod that the two races can co-exist. what was zod's answer ? .. he said" so we suffer like you son has ?.." which means he is not irrational, he didn't want to go through years of pain of readjusting to earth. which is understandable. which in another scene he was without his mask and even zod, a well skilled powerful army general was in such agony. so the movie's story is very well structured. 2- he did not die in the first encounter. he was pretty much more powerful than superman. if you watched closely, superman never actually defeated him, he snapped his neck because that was the one and only way of stopping him. zod is not stupid, another quote " I trained my entire life to master my sense". he had one life, one job and one purpose his entire life : survival of his people. zod is a very well written character that everything he said / did made total sense. he is not the usual disposable villain, he is one of the best ones, if not the best of any comic book movie (alongside ledger joker of course) .

[@JusRed48]

What the hell are you talking about? Zod's plan makes no sense. It's illogical and unreasonable. Michael Shannon is one of the best character actors in Hollywood so he does a good job distracting from the sub-par writing with his performance, but Zod is a basic bitch villain of the levels we see constantly in Marvel Studios films. Best villain ever? Come on.

[@koushikraja331]

"Everything about Earth scream that it was better the way it is, you don't need to terraform Earth into Krypton." here's the thing: zod does not care about powers. kryptonians are all equal. in fact,if kryptonians had god like powers, that alone would create an inequality in power and that was what caused the death of krypton in the first place: the council's abuse of it's power.

[@JusRed48]

How is all Kryptonians having powers inequality? That makes zero sense.

[@christianspencer1136]

10:11.... you just can't stop reminding me of my deep love and admiration for the Richard Donner Superman films, can you?

[@RantandBollox]

I'm a big sucker for 'em

[@redleader6186]

Those movies are campy and corny af.

[@joey8062]

@@redleader6186 just like you always hating on older movies

[@Jjrmtv]

brillant, absolutely brilliant. you have inspired my writing that shall have more depth, nuance and texture.

[@starbrandfan2541]

Viking12 he has inspired me too!!

[@mattSM4]

Just watched Why Superman is a Terrible Character, tbh to see how wrong you were but it was damn solid logic. you just earned yourself a follower.

[@RantandBollox]

Can't get a better reaction than that. Like a weird Akido master I used your passion against you! Thanks for coming onboard

[@dillingerspaceman5513]

Zod was good, i also enjoyed Luthor and Amanda Waller, but Enchantress was lame as fuck lol

[@mechajay3358]

Now you got me wanting to sympathize with every villain on screen. . . .Well Done👏

[@caioserafimart]

Goddamn your videos are freaking amazing.

[@zacharyclarke4991]

I thought the grief of killing Zod was losing his home. He is now the only one of his kind. However, I guess Synder didn't play that out well.

[@pauloxley7943]

I still think Man of Steel gets a bad rep and isn't actually that bad a movie

[@RantandBollox]

That's cool. Never want to discourage people from liking what they like

[@kikasse220]

1. He didn't hate earth, he wanted us out the way so he could rebuild Krypton 2. They did attack him in a unit (somewhat) in the fight in Smallville and only a handful of those Kryptonians were soldiers 3. He only told him the plan because he had hoped he could get Superman on board with the plan. Plus he had Superman on zods ship where supes was powerless until Jor el changed the ship's atmosphere 4. Zod and Superman are connected by the fact they were the last of their race (whom Superman neck snapped) and I'm sure threatening his mother, lover, entire world and destroying a major city caused him to suffer in some capacity. And beyond that, he has to deal with being alone all over again but this time he killed the rest of Kryptonians. Just because things worked out in the end he didn't suffer?

[@PaperbackWizard]

I'm sorry, but...your entire video misses the point. The first half of it explains exactly why Zod *is* the great villain you want him to be, and the second half illustrates why you failed to see that in the movie "Man of Steel". First of all, Zod is the "hero who went down the wrong path". He's the product of a society that has spent thousands of years distilling every person into the perfect shape to fill the perfect role. On Krypton, people have ceased being people and become living machines. When Jor-El is telling all of this to Clark, he's telling all of us everything we need to know about Zod. And then Zod reiterates it at the end, when he's kneeling in the ashes of Metropolis. "I exist only to protect my people...and now, I have no people." I almost cry whenever I hear Michael Shannon deliver that line, he's such a great actor. Zod was never a person of his own; he had all that taken away from him before he was born. That's what Kal-El's parents were trying to subvert with him by having him born naturally instead of in the Kryptonian way, and it's why Zod saw Kal-El as such an enemy. His very existence should never have happened. On the other hand, Zod *was* friends with Jor-El. They disagreed, but they still admired each other. Both times he kills Jor-El, you can see the pain in his eyes. But he doesn't hesitate either time, because his only "purpose" is to protect Krypton. It's why he started the coup at the beginning, it's why he tried to stop the Els from sending the Codex to another planet, and it's why he didn't hesitate to destroy Earth and everyone on it to bring Krypton back. You wanted him to talk about how humanity doesn't deserve to survive, but you missed the fact that Earth's survival is completely irrelevant to a man like Zod, a man with only one purpose in life. We don't know why Earth was a better candidate for recreating Krypton, and we don't need to know; Zod doesn't need to know, either. If his scientists or his ship's computer said "Use Earth", then he just says "Okay, let's use Earth". As for his methods, he's a soldier, not a diplomat. *That* much should have been clear when he opened fire on the Kryptonian Council. When he has Clark on the Kryptonian ship, he literally has him at his mercy. He doesn't know Lois has a copy of Jor-El's A.I. ready to take control of the ship. If not for that, Earth would have been terraformed without a hitch. Zod's not going to waste time lying to Clark, saying things like "Oh, no, I didn't kill your father; in fact, he would have *wanted* you to help me destroy Earth". He says "Yes, I killed him, and it haunts me to this day, but I'd do it again." Because that's the kind of honest, straightforward, albeit extremist soldier he is. One more thing about Zod. He had absolutely no reason to "make the hero suffer", as you claim villains should do. He may have seen Clark's existence as heresy, but he had no need to torture him...until, of course, Clark destroyed any last chance Zod had of bringing Krypton back to life. At that point, after Clark had taken Zod's "soul" from him, *that* is when Zod decided to kill all the humans, one by one if he had to, in order to make Clark pay for what he'd done. And he did make Clark suffer, by destroying buildings with his eyebeams to kill more people, by beating the crap out of him, and by forcing Clark to kill him to save others. I think Zod *wanted* to die after he'd lost all hope of restoring Krypton, and that he forced Clark to kill him. It's called "suicide by cop" here in the states. So, yeah, Zod had "layers". He wasn't some mustache-twirling, tie-a-girl-to-the-tracks, black-hat-wearing bad guy. He wasn't like Terrence Stamp's Zod who tore the roof off the White House and then just sort of sat around bored because he didn't have any plan after that. Shannon's Zod *had* a plan. He had a mission, from the start of the movie until the end. He wasn't out to prove a point to Clark about humanity; he was indifferent to humanity. He wasn't out to conquer a world; he was trying to save a world. He didn't want to make Clark suffer; he probably would have preferred Clark be on his side. But, if Clark "couldn't be a part of this", then it didn't matter. The best villains are the heroes of their own stories, as you indicated, and Zod was the hero of his. He's probably the best villain ever, at least in any comic book that's ever been. And yes, that includes all the Dark Knight and MCU villains.

[@zethorzucc9530]

PaperbackWizard great post

[@PaperbackWizard]

Thank you. I know it dragged on for a bit, but it just amazes me how much people can miss seeing about such a great character, especially people who make videos like these claiming they can make them "better".

[@zethorzucc9530]

PaperbackWizard people just miss the old one dimensional zod maybe

[@PaperbackWizard]

... ... THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT LEX LUTHOR DID IN "BATMAN V SUPERMAN"! What is wrong with people that they constantly describe exactly what they think the villains in DC's movies should be doing and completely miss the fact that they're describing exactly what DC's villains are doing?

[@zethorzucc9530]

Than Empire i feel like so many of the criticisms agaonst zod could be applied tp every mcu villain villains r pretty bad thogh :/ zod is ok but he is great conpared to the likes of malakith ultron zemo whiplash mandarin ronan on another topic why does every villain need to be like joker

[@bgxbsz]

Damn! thats a Powerful Score at the end. Always get me :')

[@geralt7511]

Zod made people hate Superman, he was a great villain,He was a big threat killing thousands and made more destruction than Loki and Ultron combined. And he made Superman go so far and made him kill in the end. Zod won. Anyway Joker Zod Bane Ras Al ghul Scarecrow Two Face Magneto are the best

[@prestidil8528]

No he didn't. People hated Superman because of the Africa scene dumb dumb.

[@chiax.4443]

I don't know how you came to the conclusion that Zod won. Zod's goal had nothing to do with: how people viewed Superman, having Superman force to kill him, or how much destruction he could cause. All of them is irreverent to Zod as his goal was all Krypton focused, only to then go on a final rampage after he had lost his entire purpose. Superman is just a side note to what Zod actually cares. Your first point is also false because in both MoS & BvS, the only people who seem to distrust Superman are those who don't like the fact that he's an alien or that he's extremely powerful. Neither of which hinges on what actually happened in Metropolis or Zod's battle (as stupid as I may think that is). They even build a statue of him after that entire destruction; clearly this is a sign that people fear him.

[@geralt7511]

Presti Dil .

[@geralt7511]

Chia Xiong first point : People hated Superman because of the killing in metropolis and destruction, didn't you watch BvS why they hated him???????????? they blame him for the casualties when Zod is the guy who did it. the second: after superman destroyed the shit that would rebuild krypton,he didnt have any purpose to live or fight for anymore, and he said it himself either you die or i do. basically if Zod killed Superman, earth would go down with him, or just make superman kill him so, he can feel the guilt of ruining Krypton and killing his last kind, that's why superman feels destroyed at the end, Zod basically made him depressed and make him choose between kryptonians or humans.

[@geralt7511]

Presti Dil Lmao dumb fuck people hated superman because of all the casualties from man of steel, dumb dumb.

[@Will-gh4wx]

Damn! This is so insightful and inspiring from a storytelling perspective. If I ever get my book published, you'll have a spot in the acknowledgements.

[@bowdownORbringthawar]

Zack Snyder pretty much sent DC to hell...

[@theretrogamer14]

You spelled Joel Schumacher wrong

[@theretrogamer14]

Did you even see Batman and Robin? That is not possible, Schumacher didn't care about Batman, and while Snyder may have a warped interpretation, he at least respects the source material enough to recognize it in the film.

[@TheQuantum09]

I don't hate DC COMICS, but I despise the DCEU.

[@DarkenedArc]

Or people need to get some fucking evaluation about things and shut the fuck up about something being different from what they are used to.

[@Chvse4U]

TheCrossboy OR people can except that something they like is considered incoherent shit by the masses

[@StratEdgyProductions]

Nice. Love discussion about villains, though I think no one gives the proper props to the unseen villain.

[@paulpesci1]

Yeah, none of this applies to Zod. He is still hands down the best comic book movie villain so far. Mindless Villain???? No logic behind his actions??? Did you even pay attention? He doesn't hate Earth he just doesn't care about it... It's in the way. "A foundation has to be built on something". Telling Kal his plan WAS him trying to convert him. He doesn't see him as a threat yet so might as well see if he will join him in recreating Krypton willingly. "... nearly a physical match for the hero" - Um... watch the fight again. Zod kicks Superman's ass throughout that entire exchange. The actual reason he was forced to kill Zod was that the headlock was LITERALLY the first time in the fight that Clark had the upper hand. If Zod got free, he might have killed Clark. "Doesn't make Superman suffer" - For fuck sake... He was forced to kill the last remaining member of his species. He discovered his people after a lifetime of searching and was then forced to end the last remaining one. Didn't suffer... c'mon buddy... c'mon. There's so much mental masturbation in this rant that just doesn't apply to Zod. I mean, what's worse is that you actually had so many other terrible villains to choose from but for some reason you pick the best we've had so far. The ONLY comic movie villain that actually has fairly clear and sympathetic motivation... for genocide. You might not agree with his actions but you UNDERSTAND them.

[@jhojanezf]

paulpesci1 Not really... there's no real way to tell who had the upper hand in the fight scenes because I mean they're both nearly unstoppable. I've seen the movie like four times and it basically an exchange of tackling each other through buildings. Even if Zod did have the upper hand, that's bullshit. It took superman years upon years to master his powers, but then Zod comes along, and even though he's never been around a yellow sun before this, he somehow had most if not all control over his abilities down in a few hours maybe minutes.

[@paulpesci1]

jhojanezf he is a warrior genetically engineered for war. "Where did you train? On a farm?". You've seen it 4 times and you haven't noticed how one sided the fight is??? There was a few traded shots but it was mostly Zod beating the snot out of Superman.

[@jhojanezf]

paulpesci1 Alright hold on let me watch this boring movie a fifth time. Or I could just hang myself that seems like the simpler option.

[@ghostofsparta757]

To answer your points directly. - There is no logic behind Zod's actions. Want to terraform the Earth but does everything in his power to antagonize the most powerful being on that planet? Not a great plan. A better plan would be to come to Clark directly and try to bond with him and understand their motivation. And slowly Zod will feed Superman his cause over time. That seems a lot more convincing than showing him a mountain of skulls and threatening his mother. -Superman wasn't even tired by the end of fight. Getting punched around doesn't mean anything if it doesn't give you a disadvantage. -Unlike my first point, Superman has no personal attachment to Zod. Even though he's a kryptonian like him, there is no reason why Superman would care for a man who actively hates him and threaten his love ones. We don't care if certain people outside our lives die. There is no reason why Superman should care much. And he gained more than he lost by the end of the movie, so it matters even less. -Motivation is all talk unless your actions back it up.

[@redleader6186]

Great Teacher On the ship he talked to Kal and told him about Krypton. He didnt beleive Kal would refuse to join his cause, until Kal asked about the earhlings. Then you need to remember that Zod is a seasoned military veteran. A farm boy is no match for him.

[@AirLancer]

I wish you guys would do more of these "rants" as opposed to all the podcast stuff. That can be entertaining too, but that Superman rant was why I subscribed to this channel, hoping for more like it.

[@RantandBollox]

Of for sure, I hear ya. It's just trying to get a good workflow going to get one out every month alongside the other stuff...we're slowly getting better (also May screwed the hell out of us)

[@TheDarkAdventure]

I don't think you watched Man of Steel. Zod was well fleshed out and perfectly understandable

[@webstar118]

Dark Adventure I agree, but not enough to have memorable impact. Not the way Joker Magneto and the asshole from Gladiator. They had the opportunity to not just flush his character out but make us sympathies with destruction of earth (for a moment at least lol) should probably seek help if you want the destruction of Earth

[@TheDarkAdventure]

noel armstrong Hey didn't want the destruction of earth. He wanted to rebuild Krypton on Earth. His reason was valid in its own way. So was Superman's reason to oppose him. Imo

[@GameOfComics]

Yes, I agree. Zod made it perfectly clear why he was willing to kill earth to rebuild his own. Every single Kryptonian gone, besides his soldiers and Clark. And for Clark, having to kill the last remaining connection to his home planet, I can't imagine the pain he suffered.

[@TheDarkAdventure]

nightfallgoddess true. It probably would have been a harder decision if his father didn't talk to him about why Krypton was destroyed in the first place. Kryptonians fucked themselves because they were dumb and bull headed and they'd do it again if they got the chance with earth. The best case was to just let the humans be and guide them as the superman

[@azuresaiyan9005]

Dark Adventure "You're views don't line up with mine, so you didn't see the movie". He clearly did, and probably understood it better than you did.

[@solaceboy]

The villains in the Marvel Cinematic Universe are terrible, because they have been so watered down compared to their comic book adaptations and this is no thanks to Disney. For some reason people eat this crap up.

[@4D1Characterror]

You lost me at Zod not being a good villian. Are you just doing this for views?

[@damnsap5098]

Yes, he does. DC hate gets views.

[@jeremybrown9611]

Dude is a DC fan as well. Nothing he says points out that he hates DC, his views are constructive, he breaks down his points and build them up. And he's right about Zod, Comic Zod is a great villian... cinematic adaption Zod is not good!

[@azuresaiyan9005]

Its called an opinion. Grow up.

[@RantandBollox]

I'll just take my Superman socks (and hours of DC related videos) over to the other side of the imaginary 'Marvel/DC' line in the sand I suppose...

[@4D1Characterror]

Azure Saiyan I guess that means that I am not aloud to give my opinion because I'll be called a child. Oh no.

[@MatthewCampbell765]

In general, where I put a good zone to be in with how powerful a hero is/how tough a challenge they face is along these lines: The hero should be competent enough to solve the problem (at least to some degree); but the challenge needs to be great enough that they have to do something creative in order to do so. They should not just be able to solve the problem with a simple use of their abilities. For example: A Telekinetic is imprisoned by bad guys. What not to do: She psychically causes the walls to collapse and crush all the guards. What to do: She uses her powers to pick a lock, and then uses her powers to make a guard's gun jam when he tries to shoot her, and then maybe pulls it out of his hands. In fact, she might use her powers to wield guns with, so that she can carry six guns at a time or something. Essentially, a badass tries to squeeze the most utility out of what little power they're given.

[@prestidil8528]

To all those blabbering about how Zod is a great villain and sooooo much better than any other Marvel villain, I want to tell you you're wrong. He's a shit villain just like most of the MCU ones are. You say his motivation is clear, but so is Zemo's. You say Shannon gave a good performance, but so did Daniel Brühl. There is literally nothing about that character that elevates him to greatness.

[@JusRed48]

Honestly the way people are saying villains like Zod or Scarecrow are great in here, are EXACTLY the reason why we get the kind of villains we do in the MCU. People aren't looking at characterization and motivation, they're looking purely at the presence the villain has on screen. That's what Marvel Studios attempts with guys like Ronan, Red Skull, Yellowjacket, even Malekith. Zod and Scarecrow are RIGHT IN THAT CLASS. They've got commanding presence on screen but the deeper layers for the villain to actually be a character rather than a cookie cut are missing.

[@trafalgusapple6948]

Presti Dil But the difference with Zemo is he is written poorly.

[@prestidil8528]

And Zod isn't?

[@jesusesoltero5651]

Presti Dil "I exist only to protect Krypton, every Action, no matter how violent or cruel, is for the greater good, of my people" -General Zod, Man of Steel

[@prestidil8528]

If you think that is good writing you really have low standards. A couple lines of decent dialogue or speech doesn't make up for the rest of his writing.

[@frankbragison122]

damn straight! i always thought of it this way; your origin story has to make your hero reluctant, sequel is all about the villan, push your hero to his limits! make the hero blur the line between right and wrong, after all, the villain doesnt see himself as the villain. and your part three is a wrap up of your heros character development. will he fall? give in to evil? sacrifice himself to save what he loves?

[@vazs]

W0W ......... I've wondered why a few comic book movies have lacked the ' heart ' . Never really looked at it this way . Enlighten. Great job 😀👍🏾

[@RantandBollox]

Thanks man

[@immortaljanus]

This video is gold. I'm a writer and just yesterday I realized I haven't even given the antagonist of my story a reason to oppose my main character. His reason, once I was willing to look for it, was heart-breaking and my main character knows this. The story suddenly became about fear of the unknown and healing past trauma than about good vs. evil.

[@RantandBollox]

Awesome, glad to have helped in some small, rant-filled, way

[@jakewilliams9811]

Every. Single. Time I watch one of your videos my own stories improve immensely. My understanding goes from mediocre to extraordinary all because you give out these videos FREE. Thank you so much for doing what you're doing! Hopefully someday soon movies will return to what they should be, life lessons

[@RantandBollox]

Well that's just a damn fine thing to read first thing in the morning. Thanks for watching and thanks for writing. Keep at it!

[@thequeensconquerer316]

My favorite villains of all time (TV and movie) are Magneto (Michael Fassbeneer) -I sympathize with his loss so much. If I was a mutant or in his position, I would do exactly what he did. He just makes so much sense to both emotionally and mentally. Kingpin (Vincent D'Onofrio, Netflix Daredevil)- Just brilliant acting and persona. Wilson Fisk had a sad background which the audience understands, he's a gentleman yet he would destroy anyone who crosses his path. Just amazing, my favorite of all time. Doctor Octopus and Green Goblin (Raimi's Spider-Man and Spider-Man 2) Just very good villains overall, I don't know why but I liked them a lot. Joker (Heath Ledger)- You all know this one Cottonmouth (Mahershala Ali, Luke Cage)- A villain with morals and respect. Pity they killed him in 6 episodes.

[@thakidreese6043]

Zod is one of the best villains of Superhero movies.

[@razakhan23465]

I really love 10:30, the way Clark and Pa Kent hug as they walk is so... real. It almost feels like I'm with my dad for a moment.

[@last2nkow]

i agree, i think Zod seeing only the dark of humanity and the brilliant heights of Krypton being contrasted against Clarks hope for humanity and acceptance of the flaws of both would have made a far better story and character. instead of having Zod dead, have the other Kryptonians join Clark near the end and have Zod go over the deep end at the betryal, and up the Ante to the doom cannon. have it that instead of murdering Zod at no cost, that the other Kryptonians seal themselves away in the Phantom zone with him to save the world. Superman loses something in that bittersweet ending and we's feel for him, yet there is hope that maybe, just maybe, they can be brought back if only he can work out how.

[@redleader6186]

Stephen Baldwin Wow dude. Humans are irrelevant to Zod the same way Native Americans were irrelevant to the Pretestant Englishmen who landed in America. Zod has one purpose, rebuild Krypton. He doesnt care about humans or what they have to offer, he only cares about his one purpose by any means necessary. The movie isnt about humanity.

[@sabatheus]

This is a master class on antagonists, and should be required viewing for anyone wanting to write fiction. I celebrate what you're doing here, sir. You have gained another subscriber.

[@S1erra107]

Okay hold up. Superman did lose something. Zod robbed Superman of his perfection in Sup's mind. Superman abhors killing. We all know this, he tries to save everyone he can. He was trying to incapacitate Zod, not kill him. But Zod forced Superman into a no win situation, where Superman had to deliberately take a life with his bare hands. That's how Zod won. That's how he damaged Superman.

[@RantandBollox]

Maybe, but the rejection of killing is not established in this film in anyway and is in fact totally undermined by the scene in which Clark lets his own father die.

[@tomashize]

Magua in Last of the Mohicans. His heart is twisted. He would make himself into what twisted it.

[@Eudaimonia239]

clap clap clap, you resumed that perfectly in the case of superman in the comics is the same thing, doomsday is one of supes most popular villains, but tbh that is one of his most boring villains (making death and return of superman a mediocre story at best), in the comics villains such as luthor, manchester black, mongul, brainiac , general zod, darkseid , challenge him more than physically they show him how worthless humanity is and try to corrupt superman showing the world that he isnt special at all, bringing him down to our level, coincidentaly those tend to be the best celebrated stories of superman, the ones who deal with the morality and inner struggles of the character, making even us agree with the villains decisions and personality, an example of that is the animated movie superman vs the elite.

[@minimisaki1511]

Me: *sobs and claps at a KZbin video* no really, this is amazing

[@andrew_841]

I personally think Thanos in endgame is probably the best villain in recent years in terms of movies just because he got SO CLOSE to winning and found out the avengers time heist plan all on his own when even his favorite daughter gamora doubted it was true. Thanos was only defeated by tony's willpower which costed him his life, thanos would have won if it wasn't for the sacrefice.

[@jakBNimbull]

Thank you R&B, your take on Zod's portrayal in MOS is how I will remember the film from now on; Outstanding..Thank you.

[@TheBigbody2007]

Man you lost me during the middle but at the end...... you won me over! Well done

[@ghost245353]

Everyone is not the bad guy, but everyone can become the bad guy...........I slightly agree.

[@Shamelesscritique1]

I actually liked zod as a villain in man of steel...his motivation was understandable if not entirely sound or even adequately explained. For example if there had been one line of dialogue that explains that there was no other viable option, no other acceptable planets to terraform, not enough power on the ship to search the rest of the universe or something and this was his last chance, if one scene showed that he was faced with a terrible choice between earth or krypton then of course we'd understand why he chooses to try and destroy the earth especially if there was also as scene where he displays a brief moment of hesitation, a sense of guilt or even shame he would have been slightly more compelling as a villain... His actions and "strategies" in the film however made no logical sense and or were just really dumb, this guys right he is a terrible leader and general. Personally though I don't think any of what was in the film was really needed, not the baby ship, his "army" or the terraforming machine, he didn't even need a sympathetic or convoluted motivation...he could have just to be one of the three callus and indifferent supermen, well two supermen and one superwoman who end up on earth somehow and are either mad with grief and loss or have been driven mad by incarceration in the phantom zone, a subtle dig at punishment and imprisonment with no attempt at rehabilitation "a fate worth than death" they called it in the original movie, either one of these two scenarios or a combination of both could explain his character and motivation as a villain in my opinion...imagine that when they arrive here they could simply be disgusted by what they see as an inferior species that are a pale imitation of their own, a sick mockery that only serves to remind them of everything they've lost...I think seeing your whole world destroyed is enough to drive even the most moral and sound mind insane and could drive anyone no matter how virtuous and ethical to do terrible things. That said though zod didn't have to be a viscous kill crazy monster or tyrannical lunatic either he could have just been a deeply flawed and misguided version of superman who had good intentions, instead of inspiring though example he decided to be more proactive and attempt to bring order, peace and security to what he sees a chaotic, violent and primitive world the only way he knows how as a soldier and warrior, through the application of force and the use of his overwhelming powers...that obviously and immediately results in humanity seeing him as an evil invader and monster which of course just leads to ever growing resistance and escalation to violence...forcing superman to reveal himself and to step forward to confront zod. I kinda prefer this idea because in this scenario zod isn't completely insane or completely hell bent on his goal to the point where it has to end with his death at the hands of superman...plus they can actually talk and debate about the stuff superman stands for...freedom and self determination, finding your place in the world and using your "natural" talents to help people and make it a better place etc truth justice and all that stuff

[@Tay-wj9et]

If Zod had tried to befriend or make an alliance with Superman, told him what his parents were like, bonded with him over Krypton and the possibility of restoring it, only to become his enemy in the end - that would've hurt. Clark having to kill the one of the only Kryptonians he knows? Someone who could've been a friend, even family? Then his happy ending wouldn't have been quite so happy.

[@redleader6186]

Katie Thats why women shouldnt write these movies. All u want is feeligs and no sense. General Zod wasnt genetically programmed to be a diplomat, he was programmed to be a brute/enforcer/warrior. He doesnt care about convincing anyone his plan or purpose, he doesnt need to. He doesnt have a silver tongue or use mind games and manipulation, he is upfront and ver direct. He has a plan, if youre in his way, he will eliminate you because that is his purpose as Kryptonian military member. That is his whole programming. You cant view those kryptonians as humans like you with feelings and reasoning. They are like MACHINES! They are genetically programmed to fulfil ONE purpose in their lives, and Zod's was to ensure the safety and life of Krypton by any means necessary. He's a warrior, not scientist, or political leader, he's a warrior. Thats his whole programming. Warriors dont know about using words, they use their brute strengh and power to get a point across. That's like trying to make Photoshop play a DVD you put in your co puter. Photoshop isnt designed to play movies, the same way Zod isnt designed for "diplomacy" and "compromise". Its not even that he wanted to fight Superman and be a bad guy. It's that Superman was an obstacle in his programming. You're either with the cause or against it.

[@Flaris]

I will say I agree with the idea on how to improve Zod. There are a few good ways to get there. The biggest issue was that he didn't make sense past a certain point. Why did he want to destroy the Earth to make a new Krypton? The movie never gets across why he'd do that. Was he just lazy? Why pick a fight with a guy who has powers and will defend this world if you don't have to? Just make a new Krypton somewhere else. Or if they wanted to go the route of him seeing humanity as not worth living then sure that could work as well. Of course I'm not sure if that formula always has to play out to work. You can have a villain who is just broken and dangerous. That can work in certain cases. And if a villain is simply coherent to his own internal logic that can also just be fine. We don't need to sympathize with every villain. Some people are just scumbags. So long as they aren't being stupid for the sake of creating a threat.

[@RantandBollox]

Completely agree. Sympathy wasn't emotional pity, but the other meaning of the word which is 'understanding', in this case the internal logic. Lecter is horrific and not at all someone who elicits emotional connection, but we do recognize his emotional motivations. Thanks for watching mate

[@MajinDabura69]

Kill Bill as a whole contains my favorite of all time, Bill. Bill is presented as this mysterious force through the first volume, almost omnipotently, a far-flung objective of the Bride's vengeance. Bill's Deadly Vipers are reflections of the Bride; O-Ren is an alternate life for the Bride if she was helped to gain her own criminal empire, Vernita is the alternate family life she could have had with Bill; Budd is the life she lived if she merely gave up; Elle, as the polar opposite of the Bride, represented the track she was on before leaving Bill. Finally, Bill was revealed late in Volume 2 as an apparently good father of her daughter, and a potential for Beatrix to put aside her vengeance for the family she may have always wanted.

[@AFreakingAxeCH]

Basically to make a good villain-hero relationship start first by splitting yourself up: The Good you and the Evil you because really you have ask why, what is the motivation of this villain? Is it because he/she had one bad day and now for him no right nor wrong exist(The Joker), He/She just wanna do the right thing but with his/her paranoia everything fell, from what he/she stands for to himself/herself(Darth Vader) or is it a manifestation of all the regrets and misdoings of your hero(Every bad version of a hero e.g NegaScott). This way you'll make a good hero, whether he/she be a vigilante who wants to eradicate crime because his/her parent is killed(Batman) he/she who wants to save the world because he/she was not able to do it the first time it happen(Superman) Or he/she was a part of some secret evil shit that did him no good and is now trying to erase his/her past(Deadpool)

[@SevenfoldFilmsFree]

This made me realize that Zod should have at first befriended Superman, and been a surrogate father to him, teaching him the truth of who he is and unlocking his true potential, giving him even his iconic krypton suit. Clark should have had no knowledge of his kryptonian origin or father jor-el, so when Zod arrives and reveals all to him, Zod is basically the counter to Pa Kent, telling Clark to use his powers, and become who he was born to be. Showing Clark how superior his existence is to that of mortal men, Zod then tempts Clark to imagine a world where everyone was a kryptonian, with bodies that could not be harmed. To do this, humanity must be destroyed and replaced, so that is when Zod reveals that his plan is to destroy the humans and make a new krypton. Superman now must make a choice; stand with Zod and make a "better future" where all the humans die and krypton is reborn, or stand with the humans. At this point, while Superman is not sure what to do, Superman learns who his true father was, a noble man who believed Clark should benefit human life instead of rule over it. Jor El would also reveal that Zod was a religious zealot and terrorist even on krypton, proving that even if everyone on earth was kryptonian there would still be war and death. Superman makes his decision to defeat Zod and stand by the human race as an icon of truth, justice, and hope. That would be a much better story than what we got.

[@RantandBollox]

Thanks for sharing the ideas, could have made a very strong film for sure. I really think the dynamic of Pa Kent as father and turning Zod into a father-figure would have been a very interesting way to showcase an emotional journey for Clark.

[@ieuanhunt552]

Damnit KZbin I'm just trying to kill time waiting for the bus why do you have to give me the feels like this.

[@RantandBollox]

It was all the algorithms fault...I'm just over here doing nothing

[@huntcd2012]

I'm actually ok with some of the antagonists in the MCU being just villains of the week as it is currently keeping the series from suffering from sequel escalation and thus allowing the more important villains to shine when they arrive as opposed to feeling like they are all trying to outdo one another. That being said, if the villain is just an obstacle, then the story has to be good enough to compensate for this. That's why Thor 2's villain bugs me as much as he does. His blandness is emphasized by Thor's lack of a goal or arc in that movie so I wound up not caring that Thor was trying to stop him. By the same token, Yellow Jacket also had pretty straightforward motives (monetary gain), but his evil plan still helped our heroes develop across the film, so I was cheering when Scott saved the day and his daughter's life. Enchantress meanwhile fell flat as a villain because she was such a poor fit for the Suicide Squad to face that it was just distracting every time she was on screen, so once again, I didn't care that they were trying to stop her. Then we have Ultron who did have interesting and sympathetic motives, but he didn't check off "threat level" on the villain box. Sure he was able to manipulate events to keep the team off balance, but him not being a physical match for the team made the movie not as exciting as it could've been. Case in point, they spend more of the final battle fighting Ultron's drones than Ultron's prime body.

[@havock89]

Heroes save us from ourselves? Yeah I can fly with that. Greatest hero, God incarnate, Jesus Christ.

[@lukecarroll4052]

you get the characters... actually teared up a bit and I'm not ashamed to admit that, great video that concisely sums it up and illustrates why Superman can be such a poignant example in the right story.

[@RantandBollox]

Thank you. I wasn't ashamed when it happened either!

[@lukecarroll4052]

Rant and Bollox Great editing too, keep up the great work lad

[@TheUncensoredGnome]

I don't know I have to say I'm getting tired of the "I have to burn down the entire city to rebuild it better" villain. It's interesting when your first introduced to it, but it becomes played out when you constantly see it time and time again. Different villain, same shit. I must rather enjoy villains who are motivated by a lust for power. "Power corrupts." Yes it's not as compelling as a story as "my family died so now I must kill murderers thus making me the villain as I'm now the murder" but when done right you can get a really interesting story, It shows how power corrupts. I believe Magneto and Zod have so far have had the best motivations so far. Magneto sees a mutant holocaust happening similar to the Jewish one he experienced as a boy, and believes the only way to stop it is to fight back. Zod was created to do one thing, thus he had to save his people/his world. Even if he wasn't created to do one thing - as one of the last survivors of your species would you kill an entire world to bring back yours if you had the chance - let alone were programmed to.

[@Simpson17866]

I would use the word "evil" differently, but semantics aside, everything you said was amazing :D

[@Repicheep22]

Lord Shen from Kung Fu Pand 2 is my absolute favorite villain, and he hits all the major points you bring up here. He's a mirror to the protagonist, his desires and actions (while horrifying) are understandable and relatable, and he forces the hero to suffer and change. SPOILERS On top of all that, Shen *could* have gotten everything he wanted. China's greatest warriors were all down for the count, his armada of warships had made it to the sea, and he could have sailed on and conquered China. However, it was his *pride* that kept him from doing so. Po was able to stop Shen at the last possible moment, because Shen was so convinced of his success that he could not even change tactics once Po started throwing cannonballs back at the armada.

[@Sayo8104]

I love how this is pretty much everything that the Wonder Woman movie did right, at least with making us see things from the villain's perspective and challenging the morals of the hero