250 4 Stroke vs 450 4 Stroke | Which is Best for a REAL Racer?

[@kevindyas8560]

That would be an awesome battle between the 2 and 4 strokes. Bring it on Max 👍

[@lucascady4992]

WOW! I really like the Color and Graphics on them 25's!! 😮 I'm a firm believer that a CRF250 is plenty of bike for 95 percent of Novice riders! I was faster on a track with my 00' CR125 than I was on my mint 95' CR500! 👍

[@woodman4989]

If they would make a 350 based on the 250 unit it would be their #1 seller

[@OtisFlint]

Church of 350!

[@House_of_Zodd]

I really don't understand why only the Austrians make a 350

[@aivorebane3050]

perfect in the paper, useless in the life. 350 is fast when your ride with it like 250, wide open. Can you do it with 250 at 14 000 rpm ? But if you wanna lug, then 450 beat easily 350 and you save lot of energy. 350 is just very powerful 250 what need ride like 250 if you wanna be fast. Otherwise it slower and harder to ride than 250.

[@PotatoeJoe69]

​@@House_of_Zodd I don't understand it either, especially when you consider the fact that the Japanese brands all used to make 350cc bikes in the 1980s.

[@donkudalski5869]

Great video 999lazer as usual. I think this question has been asked for decades in MX , I would say a lot depends on the track and of course the rider ability. I say go with the bike that makes you happy and confident. Have fun and ride safe cheers!

[@mikehudgens7007]

I race a 21 KTM 450 factory edition , a 2023 KTM SX 250 pre-mixr and my 24 Beta RX 300 - the 450 is easiest to win races opn ( but way too much power ) I like the Beta best , but I have the most fun on the SX 250 and when you have fun you ride your best- hard to explain but when I did some lap time comparisons ( I also included my 92 KTM MX 500 ) the 250 won every time , all strange bike to compare but I also had the chance to try a GASGAS ex 350 and loved it - so with that being said I am GASGAS shopping for 2025 😀 love this video even though I have little time on a 4 stroke 250 , very little time - Thanks Lazer and Sean for all your great insights and talent on these bikes and video's 👍

[@64maxpower]

I like when you ride Max. And disregard the thing i said about weekend warrior. Youre a good dude

[@kevinmee3501]

Great video Max, the camera work is fantastic, both great bikes, the 450 is expert or pro, or ego and big nads racing.

[@lukecombs5242]

The camera work is second to none max 👍👍 awesome nothing better than a Honda ride red my friend 🤙🏻.

[@999lazer]

Thanks Luke

[@mikedemille]

Hard pack track not ripped deep. 250 all day. Get some proper deep prep with heavy dirt and ruts and the 450 is nice. Fun video

[@craigchase5381]

For a weekend rider you have to take into account maintenance and engine rebuilding!!!! 250s need alot more vs 450

[@woodysrockspyro6436]

They only go through the 250 practice bikes every ...... 5 hours. Crazy. The 450s will bite ya though . Love my last Gen kx450

[@999lazer]

thats a fair point

[@craigchase5381]

It's alot cheaper to run a 450 than a 250 just because you can get alot more hrs out of a motor

[@OtisFlint]

@@craigchase5381 My buddy is a pro privateer in the 250 class, gets 3x the life out of the 450 motors. A 250 is junk by 25-30 hours, if it even makes it that long. His 2024 450 just grenaded at 97 hours with no major service, so it was past due.

[@lifewithjusto7777]

@@craigchase5381thanks for your comment

[@markhooper5824]

Great job guys. Very enjoyable to watch. Loved the bikes.👍

[@onlygazza]

I have both but people just don’t get it, mx is fun because your hanging onto a bike that is very powerful and the fun on a 450 for me is the long usable power surge that puts a smile on my face. The 250 is easier to ride fast but I enjoy the 450 more because it’s harder and more dangerou, that’s the fun 😂✊

[@jamesc6137]

Helpful video for sure. 450 for me. Much easier to ride wheelies

[@rfiskillingussoftly6568]

Sean looks like he lost some weight! Great video Max!👏🤙Braap!

[@999lazer]

haha he'll like that. :) thanks

[@simonjeffries1419]

I've never rode a 450 in my life I never had a 250 I've had a 125 ke enduro apart from that I've had road bikes 400s mainly I went out and brought a kx450f 2014 😂 at first it nearly killed me a few times but I've soon got used to her 👍

[@TheMadmostin]

Love that 450. Would be great in RX form. Keep up the good work guys. Oh. Can you do some hard and hounds stuff please.

[@robertburn8705]

Have you seen the latest Stark Varg updates? Crawl control, Reverse, Hill hold, Way more Regen, smoother power delivery and more power

[@SRVHYK]

Great video, still waiting on the koshine though.

[@dennismillus4581]

Now when are you going to do the same comparison with lap times. Against your 500cc Two Strokes line up??? That's what we want to see.

[@999lazer]

We'll try and make that happen when they come out later this year :) Thanks for watching Dennis.

[@svenomick5857]

Great test Lads Honda’s look great

[@siraff4461]

The only surprise for me is that Sean said he had more fun on the 450. He must weigh just a bit less than my left nut so thats like me jumping on something with about 120hp. The other thing to mention is that its easier to use all of a 250 but not necessarily easier to go faster - depending on your level. If you're really not great its much easier to open a 450 up in a straight line then crawl round corners than it is to push harder in the turns. 250's work really well in that zone between medium fast and almost pro. If you're higher than that or a relative novice the power bike is going to forgive a lot more in the way of wrong gear choice, poor exit speed and so on - then at the top end of riders they ultimately have more to give. Like Sean said - there is no real answer. Pick the one you like riding the most or if you're racing the one you're fastest on. I almost always go for the more powerful bike because I'm a fairly large lad, don't have any issues holding on to them for long periods of time, don't race anymore and prefer how they feel. Well up until I couldn't ride anymore anyway. If I was still racing I would be right on the verge between the two so then it just comes down to what tracks and conditions suit the bike better.

[@VBMichael_D]

" If you're really not great its much easier to open a 450 up in a straight line then crawl round corners than it is to push harder in the turns." Not sorry but I'm just gunna say it, that right there, and the EPA are the two reasons 4 strokes are more popular. Less skilled riders gravitate towards 4 strokes in dirt bikes, just like less skilled drivers gravitate towards automatic transmissions....because YES, riding a two stroke and driving a manual transmission is HARD at 10/10ths. I have a 2003 KX250 dirt bike and a 2007 DRZ400SM. NFW would I ever trade my KX for any 4 stroke dirt bike.

[@kentr2424]

OK guys, now that you've got the 250/450 choice out of the way, how about a Yamaha 250 2 stroke vs 250F test (or the Austrian bikes)?

[@gametime2473]

It's amazing how much power a 250 4 stroke is putting out now.

[@cianmurphy137]

Would love to see a actual race comparison. How much of an advantage off the start in the hands of an average club rider and if the bigger bikes times drop off towards the end of a race and stuff like that. Would build more of a picture than just the one lap everyone seems to base it on.

[@markbean2777]

Was in Spain at weekend told wife 250f was turning up at home Monday.. 😂.. she said with what money 💰 🤑

[@TheGrobe]

To which, I assume you replied, “the money I earned and I choose to spend on something that makes me happy.”😉

[@andrescheuer4400]

Honda should make the 350 they know they want to

[@make2strokesgreatagain512]

I bet Dave Thorpe was asking for your autographs and to have his photo done with you all the time😂. " now Dave just calm it down a bit for Peter sake "

[@jamesc6137]

I just want a 450 for wheeling around the house. Seriously I think for a heavier guy who doesn't want to have to blast through turns on a track to keep momentum, the 450r is a good lazy play around bike for hitting gaps and tables on casual weekend laps.

[@nitramh24]

I’d go for a 450 after watching this!!

[@kenleach1198]

Great test

[@999lazer]

Thank you! Cheers!

[@aivorebane3050]

Don't underestimate one second. Even by the end of a hobbyist's short race, it has become 10-15 seconds. Plus starts and passing.

[@siraff4461]

There is 1.8kg difference in weight - just over 1% and not enough that you're ever going to notice unless you're right at the top cutting edge of riders. If one is more managable its all down to set up. Set the 450 up like the 250 and get a longer pull throttle tube and you're effectively on the same bike with an extra third of the throttle after the 250 hits the stop.

[@siraff4461]

I should point out that I'm not saying which is better or faster - just that they are a lot closer than the "big scary 450" or "small, nimble 250" labels seem to assume. For me it comes down to riding style and track. If you're on a big, long, sticky track the 450 is going to clear off easily. If you're doing a lot of laps on a technical - preferably hard pack - track then the 250 is going to be the easier ride. Again though - either will be within hardly anything of the other unless you're getting up there.

[@OtisFlint]

Weight on the scale doesn't account for inertia. My 450 was only a couple lbs heavier than my 250 (same chassis) but throwing them into corners the 450 felt 20lbs heavier.

[@DeanoLupi]

Love your videos!

[@999lazer]

Glad you like them!

[@barbenfischen]

Very interesting comparison. Will you do it with the 2025 Yamaha too?

[@offroadrepairman]

My old self is going to stick with the 450. I live in Denver, CO and I’m in the 200# club.

[@999lazer]

Thanks for watching:)

[@rtimetoride7645]

Watch MX Engineer. You can change the mapping down to a 350 with no wheel spin. Seems like the universal bike, Finally!

[@mxengineer1]

Yes dialing back the 25 CRF450R to Map 2 with TC on #3 really smoothes out the CRF450R....almost like having 2 or 3 bikes in one!

[@paulbudford]

Looks like the 450 has had a lot of improvement to make it more friendly. Even more reason for people to buy it. 😉

[@lorenzkockaerts]

looks very good the 25 model's

[@999lazer]

thanks for watching

[@kevincraig8257]

with those mile long straights you probably can use the larger engine

[@trapdoorspider9211]

Il stick with me 450 and I like the good old cable clutch specifically for feel and reliability.

[@bollweevil8112]

Truth tellers know that a 125 2stroke is more than 99.9% of riders can handle

[@dekanbranham4772]

i race age classes and 450 just shine cause the start on a 250 u have to perfect to get a good start. we all know how important a start is

[@dekanbranham4772]

plus i like to ride a gear high and the 450 allows that much better

[@glennwoods2462]

Great video...I had the 450 being way quicker..... either bike would be cool to own.... Great to hear Dave Thorpe's view's as well...👍

[@999lazer]

Thanks Glen, DT is a wise man for sure.

[@benburton8463]

This is why i still ride a tc125! I just dont need the 250 yet at my level. If i can ride my 125 like a pro to its maximum potential then yeh might get a 250. Lets be honest tho! Us weekenders we cant! Im faster on my 125 than even a 450! But im not a pro rider

[@mitchell146]

Dry slippery hard pack doesn’t require high HP. Also your not considering an up hill start, heavy conditions, rider weight etc

[@leethomas556]

A solution for me is to own both

[@julianlaustsen1991]

I'd much rather just have a 500 2 stroke, much more reliable engine that can run for a long time.

[@Superdisco199]

What were the session 2 times for the 250 ? looks like a 450 track, wide open and big hills.

[@House_of_Zodd]

I over jumped a big jump today just fine on my crf250r

[@Bizzle_Gaming]

ima bigger guy but even still find a 450 too much for track riding, went for an sxf 350 as a nice inbetween

[@benjaminbrodrick5604]

What’s the price for release on these ?

[@USMC-1911]

Deegans lap times on a 250 are something just as fast i think 250 is plenty .

[@mingomane1]

200lbs is big?

[@peternilsson8133]

300 2stroke the best of everything

[@christomsett1819]

I think you got to buy the bike that you can hang onto as fast as you can go the longest... I'd like to of seen fastest average

[@propacollector3499]

still cr for me 500 or 250 even cr 125

[@dr.hugog.hackenbush9443]

Getting a little worried about you here Max- there has been an awful lot of camshats and valves showing up.on your channel as of late...

[@999lazer]

haha, don't worry. We love all dirt bikes and this was our first call up from Honda & we always feel privileged to be asked to go on a trip like this one. We have plenty of oil burning content coming up over the next few weeks :)

[@KevinBarrow-m5x]

Hey!! I really need my bike! I have rode a bike as a kid in elementary school. I have had made up my mind and decision to accomplish it moving forward in life. And since then I was getting like denied or just not enough guidance in some sort. And now I'm 26 and I really need me a motercross bike. Can you help me out.

[@mingomane1]

I magic potion has already been created. It’s called a 350f

[@64maxpower]

I think that you just like the Honda because they have a 1988 CR flavor to them

[@999lazer]

I do really like the new styling. Thanks for watching

[@Motoinc]

NEEDS ?? WHO gives a shlt..... I WANT A 450 so I ride 450

[@siraff4461]

Just imagine if they made a bike 10kg lighter than the 250 and with about 15hp more than the 450... Ring a ding ding.

[@VBMichael_D]

Riding a two stroke is like a Ferarri F40, you have to actually have skill to drive it. Riding a 4 stroke is like driving a new Ferrari with all the traction control and nanny aids on it. Sure, you'll most likely be faster in the newer car, because it requires less skill to drive 8-10/10ths.

[@ragnarironspear1791]

Fof me it's a 98 YZ250

[@999lazer]

of course :) awesome machine

[@64maxpower]

A little bit it's a disservice to call us and yoyrself a weekend warrior Max. Most of us who ride/race dirt bikes put way more time into out bikes than on Sundsy. We live it all week long. From Monday to Sunday our sport has us captivated with training, maintenance and pondering about riding. Our sport is a life style. I think maybe we need fitting pronouns for ourselves

[@64maxpower]

And no we don't. I go as fast on my xr250 off road as I do my ktm350

[@leanlifter1]

​@@64maxpowerThe KTM is around 5mph faster on the top speed and it will get there much quicker than any xr unless it is the uncorked brp 650r. That said with the right rider behind the bars of a properly set up uncorked xr 250r they can keep up with anything even the best in tight woods Enduro cross country trail riding bikes that cost much more time, money and maintaining.

[@64maxpower]

@leanlifter1 I'm thinking that I wasn't clear in my point. I rode my xr250 against modern bikes off road. Then I got a KTM350. I thought I would gain speed with the 350. And not really. I'm still holding the same averages. So bigger and newer isn't always faster

[@999lazer]

mmm fair point, come up with a new name and I'll use it in the videos :)

[@siraff4461]

@@999lazer Good lord lets not start going on about pronouns. Thats a slippery slope and the next thing you know Sean will be getting forced to wear boots made of kale so he doesn't offend the only vegan in the room. Most grown ups know exactly what you mean and don't get offended by being called exactly what we are. If you only ride at weekends the weekend warrior is the correct term and even if it isn't it doesn't matter to anyone normal.

[@oliverbassil7943]

Calling your british champion test rider who won the last race out on a chinese pitbike a weekend warrior is a bit harsh 😂. I want to see the same comparison with some guys riding less than a few years lol.

[@ОктайМехмедов]

👌👌👌👌👏👏👏👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@glensubtorq]

Nah. If I'm buyin another bike it's a 2-stoke. Not an EV or 4-stroke.

[@dennismillus4581]

I little tall tail of the power.

[@vtecmossy]

Nah I need a 450 ta 😂

[@DAVE_WHITE]

4 stroke CRAP bad video

[@donaldtrumpenstein9722]

that looks more like an arenacross track

[@donaldtrumpenstein9722]

450s engine will last a lot longer

[@paulelm4645]

Wat is dry and wet mean

[@999lazer]

We rode the 250's in the morning and 450's in the afternoon and the track was watered heavily over lunch time so the first session on the 450 was wet.