Asian Peace Talks with Kishore Mahbubani Ep 7: US' Relations with China and Asia under Biden

In this episode, Kishore Mahbubani speaks with Sarang Shidore of the Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft, Washington DC, on the trajectory of US-China relations under the Biden Administration, from the perspective of Asia and ASEAN. This discussion covers the changing trajectory of the bilateral relations, how the Biden Administration has been different (if at all) from the Trump administration on China, the impact of the Ukraine conflict, as well as of Nancy Pelosi's ongoing visit to Taiwan, and how all of this affects ASEAN.

[@BeelP.]

A comment was made that China is seen as a security threat to its Asian allies. An honest question to be asked is what the intention was when the US forged an alliance with some countries in Asia in the first instance. In a nutshell, such an alliance was to threaten China. It represented a US threat to China and there was never a China threat to allies of the US.

[@willengel2458]

US is simply looking for cannon fodders to do its dirty work. aside from its colonies of Japan and South Korea, there is no other country willing to base US missiles because they will receive free gift via DF Express if there is a conflict.

[@samliew6610]

Just too JEALOUS of China's success.

[@phongy45]

american have more then 20 overseas WMD military surrounding CHINA!!! .. who are the threat???

[@beastmode8203]

@@samliew6610 but jealousy will bring you Armageddon.

[@lasercladjoe]

Teng Siew Fong, you're 200% correct about who's threatening who all the time, it's those who has been bullying, instigating and provoking everyone, now turn around with the gang and accused China is a security threat... Heaven will punish the evils... 🙏🙏🙏

[@petervote7914]

I feel that Kishore Mahbubani is still too diplomatic when it comes to U.S. He is still not bluntly saying the things that are inside the minds of people in global south.

[@dinghy4760]

@Peter Vote. He is the quintessential diplomat, sought after for his clear & level-headed opinions. Being overbearing and biased doesn't help, if you want to be heard.

[@beastmode8203]

We do I don't know why he doesn't. We don't beat around the bush we say how it is. It's all about being number one or Armageddon but second is not an option. We will choose death by nuclear war before accepting a world where we are second to China or anybody else.

[@fannyalbi9040]

@@dinghy4760 not really. if u r truth. say it is what it is. he is not politic like hitler to say loudly to be heard

[@MJTUEN]

He is more inclines to the US due probably to his association with it. US only capable of cheating, lying and stealing.

[@beastmode8203]

@@MJTUEN everything you just said is what China does.

[@currawong2011]

Kishore, you speak about the Russian invasion as being illegal, but honestly what else would you have expected them to do under the circumstances of a near-NATO invasion?

[@barrieroberts75]

Plus the constant bombing of the Donbas and Luhansk areas which caused a reported 14500 deaths with 19% Ukrainians and 81% people from the 2 breakaway regions, the UN completely failed with France and Germany to make the Ukrainians comply with the Minsk 1 and 2 which if done this whole tragedy would have been averted, but as we now know The US UK and Nato were training and arming the Ukrainian army and the puppet masters n Washington and the CIA neocons 🤮🤮🤮🤮🤮🏴󠁧󠁢󠁷󠁬󠁳󠁿

[@scalarnai]

Russia did not invade Ukraine per se. Russia launched its special military operation to defeat the Ukrainian Nazi killing Russians in the Donbass region of Ukraine.

[@inkbold8511]

@RG isn't that something American has been know to use more frequently than any other excuses to invade another country. Hell nothing happened to Americans after their murdering of civilians why would anything happen to Russia if it's only targeting naziii and not civilians. 😂 Hypocrite

[@beastmode8203]

Russia invaded Ukraine.

[@tonytan6547]

Remember that those conversations were stopped as retaliation to Pelosi's visit

[@tonytan6547]

Biden/Pelosi were hoping that the "visit" will bring up thear chances in the coming Nov elections

[@greatasia606]

Let the Great Asia tell you the truth: The rise of Asia means angmohs will have to go eat grass. So, do you think angmohs will allow Asia to rise?

[@wroughtforge7547]

Who finance the Quincy institute.

[@mmojave]

haha, yes follow the money. but sadly many don't.

[@arjalanarayan]

Dam,Indian, PhD,,Fix,China,USA

[@lulalala_]

没看视频，但是封面的龙不是我们传统意义上最具代表的中国龙，建议用这个symbol之前先做做调查吧无语🙄

[@nutellacreep]

"more defense spending...which they don't think should be waged with allies much more with adversaries" (around 10:30)...it boggles the mind to believe that Americans would want adversaries to spend more on defense. Some parts of their discussion like the quote above are perhaps misstated or not fully formed. Summary of their discussion: "Prolonged conflict is not in the interests of anyone therefore let's all surrender to Russia and China when they come knocking because I pine for strong leadership. If Russia/China are aggressive, it is because we have been feeding their insecurities by humiliating them (how can Russia/China be both insecure and strong). It's a multipolar world, why can't the US recognize this and lead appropriately (why the burden of leadership if the US is relatively weaker in a multipolar world) ?" A lot of double-think here...would recommend these 2 for some therapy sessions...

[@limitlesssky3050]

Are you an amateur in global politics? The US has been the most aggressive nation post WWII, Iraq invasion alone resulted in 1 million Iraqi casualty. Even if Russia and China are more aggressive than now, it still can't top the US. And they are both strong and insecure, strong because they are great powers both in military sense and economic sense, insecure because they can't fight the US. American provocations to Russia are obviously about the US sanction, the EU sanctions, NATO membership of the East Europeans and Ukraine joining NATO, which turned out to be a dud. While the US provocation to China is obviously the blockade of the South China Sea, putting bases in ASEAN, putting missile systems in Korea and Japan, and supporting independence of Taiwan (despite having a one china policy). You've been watching too much MSM lol.

[@limitlesssky3050]

And the US has a burden of leadership because we are STILL in a unipolar world, we are in a transition to a multipolar world, so what they meant is the US should lead the world into a peaceful transition. Post unipolar world, no one gives a shit about the US anymore anyway. So who cares what you do in your continent?

[@nutellacreep]

@@limitlesssky3050 Yes, the US has been involved in endless wars. It's time to stop policing the world, and let the chips fall where they may without the trade that comes from Pax Americana. Don't understand China - why erode the international order when it has been the biggest beneficiary of it? People are very reluctant to maintain the international order anymore, given the extent to which China has undermined it. "strong because they are great powers both in military sense and economic sense, insecure because they can't fight the US" - this statement seems to be self-contradictory . Strong, yet unable to fight? (too much double-think from consuming propaganda?) "While the US provocation to China is obviously the blockade of the South China Sea" - no, just moving ships through international waters in accordance with 1982 UN boundaries is not a blockade. A real blockade would be a blockade of the Straits of Malacca with submarines. China currently has no answer to that...Plus the US is China's biggest food supplier. If the US stops exporting food to China, there'll be bad things happening there, no need for a blockade.

[@MJTUEN]

Much ado about nothing.

[@jimmcrobert7521]

Let's go China let's go Russia

[@beastmode8203]

Both of those dictatorships are fucked. 💪🏼☢️🇺🇸

[@dryeoh2023]

Dear Kishore, I am of the opinion that the USA can keep the tariffs and continue with the high tariffs; China is ok with it. America can continue with the technology sanctions against China as this will push China to overcome it. Remember that USA will not allow China to join the ISS; this help China to start their journey of having their own. The same goes for Beidou, AI, Harmony OS, etc. Now will be development of EDA, semi-conductors, EUV, etc. We will see this in 5 years time. The domestic consumption in China is the key to their sustainability and growth. I felt sorry for Gordan Chang who aspires the collapse of China; it will not and it will become stronger and stronger.

[@alfredkay]

Gordon Chang is a disgrace. What ever he said, one take the contrarian view. Western media always want to quote him. He has been consistently wrong for the last 30 years.

[@yliang1688]

🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩🤩 EXACTLY SAID !!!!!! TKX.

[@danlan3433]

Are there any reasonable politicians in Washington who’s not a warmonger when the world is changing and the politicians in DC had gotten to be very provocative and it is a dangerous to everyone.

[@KayyHong]

Thanks to America's hostile actions, China gets stronger and more self reliant. Short term pain will give way to long term gains!

[@beastmode8203]

@@KayyHong LOL keep lying to yourself.

[@MsOpineminded]

I stop listening. These two people are wise but are deluding themselves. Fact is the US used to be beneficial but is now a liability in Asia (arguably the world and in fact prob to itself) Countries like Singapore SHOULD do more as a friend of the US to spell out their idiocy and hypocrisy FAR more BLUNTLY. BC the BIGGEST problem is the US prefers the sound of its own voice. It suffers from selective hearing and its media/govt is an echo chamber of bias confirmation, poor assumptions and preconceptions. The number of actual CHINA experts that are listen to these days are dwindling. US Leadership is ALSO a massive problem. It prefers to frame the competition as systemic between Authocracies and Democracies which is disingenuous. Consider where they continue to accuse China (WITHOUT sufficient proof but mere wild conjecture) of a Xinjiang policy of concentration camps or worse hyperbolicly claim there is a genocide happening, they fail to at same breath condemn a Democracy in the Middle East in Israel actually practising open apartheid and keeping Palestinians locked up without freedoms in an open prison. OR worse they make no mention of discriminatory practises against the world's largest democracy India's minority Muslims (The largest in the world) or the locking up of Kashmiris in a disputed territory that is NOT Indian. Contrary to China which is NOT interested in the export of ideology, the US is a fanatical regime proselytizing democracy with a religious zeal. Most of the world see the hypocrisy not to mention the failure of the US system delivering on a range of issues for its own people from BLM to its large prison population, gun violence, increasing poverty, failure to prevent 1 million + covid deaths. When put against China in contrast, the gap is even more stark. This is a reason for US to smear China as distraction from its own faults nothing more. US leadership is SELF SERVING. The people are sold on the opiate that they have a choice between two parties which essentially sells them the same medicine and is working for the 1% or the Special Interest Groups required to fund expensive electoral campaigns that act as a barrier for true egalitarian representation. By contrast China is a one party state but is delivering on what its people needs and is engaged all over the world in Trade and investments with proven success. I mean you don't keep trading with a partner if they don't deliver. The fact is that the US political system cannot provide the same level of quality leadership as China. US has now been led by fossils from trump to Biden to Pelosi. It no longer runs on fossil fuel, it is run by fossils. The popularity contest dictates short term jingoistic policy over actual long term substance for the benefit of the American people. And policy U turns are now a matter of course. Where China is remarkably consistent and clear with its foreign policy, US is muddled and prone to expedient changes. No one can trust the US on a promise. Consider Afghanistan which they "evacuated" (cut and ran) leaving their so called allies exposed. Who is foolish enough to truly be an ally of the US besides some Anglo (or wannabe Anglo in case of Japan) countries that prefer to peg their fortunes to a flailing power for erronious civilizational assumptions. Where China's leadership has Quality Control in place over those entering the sphere of politics and a stress test in place to ensure only the BEST rise to the very top to lead the nation, the US system is a popularity contest where even a failed businessman/Reality show host can be given reign to its own detriment. That's the crux. The US deep down realise their political system is NOT able to compete with China. They will not admit it bc their political system and democracy has become a dogma. No one can touch the sacred cow. No one can call the emperor's new clothes. They will sell instead feel good opiate in tropes and literal lies on China so the populace in the US is (easily) distracted from deep issues at home. Just think an $800B defense budget and yet it could not stop over 1 million Americans from dying of Covid. 800 bases and black sites around the globe and it prefers to sell to idiots the idea that China is a threat worldwide. Last I check China has ONE base in Djibouti which it uses to support UN mandated Anti Piracy patrols in the horn of Africa. No point trying to figure out what Jake Sullivan or Blinken are thinking. They are not. Hence continued own goals and continued baiting and dangers to Asia.

[@lmyunxlee2005]

✨️👍

[@tkk685]

I agree with what you said but I guess as an ex-diplomat, kishore has to be well… diplomatic about it. He’s already one of the non ethnic Chinese intellectuals who best understands China, and not held hostage by western ideologies that some intellectuals in SG have been spoon fed with for ages.

[@phongy45]

MODERN WORLD HISTORY ……THEY WILL NEVER BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOLS AND UNIVERSITIES IN WESTERN SCHOOLS AND IN JAPANESE SCHOOLS ON THE HISTORICAL TRUTHS AND THE ATROCITIES COMMITTED 1. Which 2 countries invaded and occupied Indonesia? ANSWER: Netherlands for 350 years Japan for 3.5 years 2. Which country was once the colony master of Malaya & India? Britain 3. Which countries invaded and occupied Vietnam? a. France in 1857-1940 & 1946-1954 b. Japan in 1940-1945#. c. USA (in Southern Vietnam) in 1955-1975. 4. Which countries were responsible for colonisation of the AFRICAN continent? Belgium, Britain, France, Germany, Portugal, Spain and Italy 5. Which 8 countries were responsible for the occupation of CHINA in early 20th century? Britain, US, Germany, France, Russia, Japan, Italy Austria-Hungary 6. Which countries are responsible for colonising and almost annihilating the AMERICAN NATIVE INDIANS in northern America? France Britain 7. Which country colonised and almost annihilated Aborigines in Australia and New Zealand? Britain From the mid-1820s to 1832, Aboriginal Australians fought a guerrilla warfare against the invading BRTISH colonists in Tasmania, which historians called the Black War. It claimed the lives of 600 to 900 Aboriginal people and nearly annihilating the whole of the island's indigenous population. The near-destruction of the Aboriginal Tasmanians, and the frequent incidence of MASS KILLINGS. has been described by historians as an act of GENOCIDE. 8. Which are the member countries of G7? United Kingdom/Britain Canada France Germany Italy Japan USA 9. COUNTRIES COMMITTED THE WORST CRIME AGAINST CRIME IN THE 20th CENTURY GERMANY against European Jews in WW II JAPAN in the MASSACRE of Chinese in NANKING CHINA between DECEMBER 1937 to JANUARY 1938 BRITAIN in Jallianwala Bagh Massacre, also called Massacre of Amritsar in India by the BRITISH On April 13, 1919, British troops fired on a large crowd of UNARMED Indians in an open space known as the Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar in the Punjab region (now in Punjab state) of India, killing more than 1,50O Indian civilians over 1,200 other people. The large PEACEFUL crowd had gathered at the Jallianwala Bagh in Amritsar, Punjab to protest against the arrest of pro-Indian independence leaders Dr. Saifuddin Kitchlew and Dr. Satya Pal. 10. WHICH COUNTRIES ENGAGED IN WHOLESALE AFRICAN SLAVERY TRADE BRITAIN and USA Merchant ships set out from Britain, loaded with trade goods which were exchanged on the West African shores for slaves captured by local rulers from deeper inland. The slaves were transported through the infamous "Middle Passage across the Atlantic, and were sold at considerable profit for labour in plantations. It is estimated that Britain transported 3.1 million Africans since 1641, (of whom 2.7 million arrived) to the British colonies in the Caribbean, North and South America and to other countries. Approximately 600,000 of 10 million African slaves made their…

[@Genocide2024]

I was listening to the discussion then I began to read the comments. When I got to your comment I just paused the video and read your lengthy comment which makes perfect sense. Why waste time with students of colonialist.

[@lasercladjoe]

Djii Man, Good facts 👍👍👍

[@petervote7914]

U.S. invaded Iraq in 2003 based on lies and killed one million Iraqis and no one sanctioned U.S. I feel that Russia is more than justified in invading Ukraine. There is more reason for Russia to invade Ukraine than U.S. invading Iraq. Singapore is in minority of countries sanctioning Russia also.

[@lasercladjoe]

Peter Vote, yes ! rather disappointed with the government for taking sides with the wrong party instead of staying neutral...

[@Orwellian-Purple-Grapes-1984]

@@lasercladjoe I'm rather disappointed with Singapore's stance too, but not overly surprised. After all, Singapore is a financial hub and therefore highly dependent on the US-controlled SWIFT system.

[@scalarnai]

Did Singapore sanction US for their illegal invasion of Iraq 2003 ??

[@mnoot7209]

Big Differences: 1) The US left Iraq. Russia won't leave Ukraine. 2) Iraq is not a US vassal state... nor even in its orbit. Iraq is in bed with Iran. Russia will never let go of Ukraine, and in fact, wants to erase and absorb it. 3) The very reason that you know that the US invaded Iraq in 2003 (mostly, tho not entirely) as you say "based on lies" is only because the US has a free press. Russia has no such thing and never will. Also, you say Russia is "justified" in invading Ukraine. Is this based on the principle that "two wrongs make a right?" Anyhow, you entirely missed the point: Please explain how Russia is "justified" in its terror campaign of targeting and killing civilians more than they target Ukrainian military? Are they Bears or are they just Pussies? Another point: Where do you get your figure of "one million Iraqis" killed by US in Iraq"? The figures I come up with put the total number of civilian deaths in Iraq over the period of the Iraq War at 90,000 - significantly, that figure is Total in country Deaths... in other words, it doesn't distinguish between war deaths and non-war deaths. Figures for Iraqi military killed are estimated at 10-20,000. Grossly exaggerating death statistics weakens your argument. (your claim of 1,000,000 is at least 10 times what experts calculate).

[@romanceidiot]

@@lasercladjoe Singapore's stance is not USA or Russia but rather UN.

[@SwazzerProductions]

(EDIT: Are you really going to remove/delete my comment multiple times? Disappointing given that I have read most of Kishore's works and actually admire his thoughts and diplomatic experience.) So called non-aligned countries such as Singapore and other ASEAN countries still naively believe that the US cares about 'peace' and 'stability' in Asia. What the US actually wants is to hinder economic progress in the region thereby allowing them to maintain their economic and military hegemony over Asia. China is the main obstacle in their way. I would question Kishore as to why the US publicly opposed the RCEP; and also why the US is still not a signatory of the UNCLOS? During the Pelosi trip to Taiwan, all ASEAN countries remained hypocritically silent on the breaking of the internationally recognised 'One China Policy'. Not a single ASEAN country condemned the clear provocation from the US to disrupt peace in Asia. How do you then expect China to react to ASEAN countries telling China to respect 'international' rulings with regards to SCS disputes? I recommend current Singaporean diplomats review how Lee Kuan Yew dealt with malicious intentions from the US: (kzbin.info/www/bejne/Z2WVd5WKjsp-bc0).

[@noelborbon6155]

Compliance with the one-China principle would be enough. Countries in SE Asia have expressed concerns about Nancy's provocative Taipei visit. At least regional intellectuals and international relations scholars have condemned publicly about this through interviews on various media and influencer platforms

[@SwazzerProductions]

@@noelborbon6155 'Expressing concerns' in realpolitik terms means nothing. ASEAN often preaches that maintaining peace and stability in Asia is the collective responsibility of all Asian countries; however, they really failed to 'practice what they preach' during Pelosi's visit. Being 'non-aligned' does not equate to being timid in the face of deliberate provocations by the US to disrupt peace in the region.

[@limitlesssky3050]

@@noelborbon6155 regional intellectual's and scholar's opinions matter not in the global scale.

[@limitlesssky3050]

@@SwazzerProductions it's mostly just Singapore and Phillipines that constantly yapping about asian regional stability BS. If ASEAN wants to stay neutral, like real neutrality, they really should just zip it.

[@phongy45]

american didn't honour almost all past agreements!!

[@BenjiSun]

and that's their mentality when it comes to everyone else. 賊喊捉賊 A thief crying "Stop thief". 惱羞成怒 Using anger to hide embarassment, aka Being Salty, aka Pulling a Trump on Twitter. Waaah. lol

[@GoldenKhanate06]

This goes back to when they didn't hold up their treaties with the natives and stole their land

[@Po-village-chief]

The conversation left out the racial angle, which is a critical undercurrent of the US China contest. Never forget the white supremacy mentality that's embedded in the American primacy argument.

[@中華傲訣]

Democracy can only work at its best if the leaders are not populist and are picked through a meritocratic system. That means the men leading the country must best of the best in their field of work. However, not many democratic countries have such political system.In US and many parts of the world, any Tom, Dick or Harry could be the President or leader.

[@nutellacreep]

The problem with using meritocracy for leadership, is that merit is not a 2D line. Consider a simple coordination problem - should we go left or go right? Well, the smartest engineer in the room can make a decision. So can farmer Harry. Both their decisions are equally valid, and could turn out to be equally correct. For leadership, you have to have the right skills, the right temperament, at the right time. Having the best skills alone is insufficient. In addition, a "meritocratic" system generates a lot of discontent. Given the arbitrariness of the concept of "merit", suppose "merit" is simply height. Sure, the tall elites are happy with their position. But the short people will be unhappy, because there is no way they can be tall. Whereas with a democracy, people have to accept that that is what they chose - this leads to more social stability, less need for censorship, less need for draconian policing.

[@miinfl7143]

@@nutellacreep Go by results.

[@MsOpineminded]

The other thing that is a misnomer is the idea that US has allies. Apart from some far flung Anglos, most countries prefer to stay uninvolved with US containment policy of China. But this does not stop US from thinking it has China surrounded. It is the confirmation bias of idiots who think they are winning. Consider: 1) ASEAN - As mentioned by both speakers, NO ASEAN country endorses the current baiting of China or is onboard with US containment plans. EVEN Vietnam and the Philippines both of which have oustnading issues in SCS with China have refrained from US idiocy. In fact if you want proof of how incompetent the US leadership is, look no further than the Kamala Harris trip to Hanoi where she made the big gaff of assuming the arrest site of what the Vietnamese consider a War criminal in John McCain was some sort of dedication site to his heroism. Naturally Hanoi was less than impressed with her level of intelligence. Since then, I believe she has NOT been allowed to leave the US. Vietnam is of course benefitting from China's BRI and RCEP not to mention off shoring of China's companies which consider Vietnamese as closest to their level of industry and manufacturing competence. Why would it want to join the US that as the Vietnamese remember also abandoned their allies the South Vietnamese when the going got tough? Ditto Philippines. US prefer to believe the post Duterte govt will get onboard the Anti China program. They conveniently forget BongBong Marcos clearly remember how the US abandoned his grandfather when he no longer served use to them. That aside again from Philippines reviving its economic prospect through Trade and investment with China. 2) S Korea. The proof is in the pudding when President Yoon preferred not to receive Pelosi recently. It may be a matter of time when S Korea feel the US presence on its soil is redundant and in fact a hindrance to reunification. In any case, they fully realise they are reliant on China to help control their erratic Northern neighbour. 3) India. Here's the big one. Again US will (As the guest mentioned) slap itself on the back and the Western press will laud India being onboard with QUAD... BUT significantly they will nary mention India pivoting back to SCO and BRICS recently. India realise it was flying too close to the sun trying to ride Uncle Sam in dealing with border issues with China (Which frankly are summountable on its own) a) It noticed US SUDDEN 'evacuation' (Retreat) from Afghanistan and abandonment of its allies there. This left it with a massive security problem. Pivot back to SCO. b) It realise its membership to the lame anyway QUADriplegic alliance did not mean entry to the WHITE only Old boy's AUKUS. Welcome second class White Brown brother (Japan a perennial US sycophant and White wannabe should do well to take note) c) It realise it will be next when US tried to lean on them to join in with sanctions and weaponization of the US dollar. India doubled down with its BRICS partners (including China) instead to increase membership and expand cooperation. ALL this conveniently left out by West media to protect and insulate its audience. Aside form that, India is ALSO surrounded by countries friendly to China. 4) Central Asia. US has independently vacated it. Countries have turned (perhaps for the better) to a regional confluence of China, Russia, Iran, Turkey, India to sort out security moving forward. 5) Middle East - This has also recently moved toward a more nuanced if not greater China engagement. We indeed have seen the Saudis stung by Biden's clumsy foreign policy gaff calling them a dictatorship (which they are) refuse to do his bidding unsurprisingly, when he went cap in hand to beg for them to open the oil taps. 6) Africa, South and Central America, Caribbeans are all doing business with China So where exactly does the US think it has China cornered except within the echo chamber of its press? This false sense of victory is part of the problem feeding shallow assumptions that the countries of the world are onboard with them on China. 7) Perhaps the one region which has bought into US civilizational war tropes unwisely is Europe which is now in its own mess with a quagmire in Ukraine that was avoidable. Even in Europe, it is not certain that it won't divide between East and West with the latter prioritizing a false sense of ethics over the formers more pressing bread and butter issues. The ONLY two countries in Asia (or close) that are considered US allies are Japan and Australia (UK is too far to be a factor) Of the two, Australia is also too far and insignificant. China's recent move into the south pacific also serves as strong reminder that China can put the shoe on the other foot if need be. Indeed, Indonesia has recently visited China to strengthen ties which is both economical sense but may also be leverage against (as Prof Mahbubani mentioned) increasingly unnecessary Australian Militanism. That leaves Japan which is very good at circle jerking the US. BUT when it comes to show time, it is questionable if Japan will follow through with its words. As is it not only has territorial disputes unresolved with Russia in its north but also depends on Russian for energy. Again the hypocrisy of the US complaining about uninhabited islets in the SCS laid bare when Japan independently Nationalised the Senkakus/Diaoyu Islands with Washington's endorsement. Those islands of course also claimed by BOTH China and Taiwan. It was likely for that reason China decided to establish facts on the ground with its own claims in the SCS as it viewed the US as no longer an honest and non bias broker. BUT in any case, UK and US have no issue say denying the Chagossian people the right of return to their Island homeland Diego Garcia anyway, which they continue to use as a base to liberally bomb the Middle East, incurring euphemistic "Collateral Damage" of women, children and innocent civilians to an estimate of over 1 million. No outrage there for Western liberals who prefer to focus on unproven genocide or concentration camp hyperbole in Xinjiang. No issue with the fact that 2 decades of Freedom and Democracy in Afghanistan has left the country poorer than ever. This is the other problem. Perception. US and Western media propogates a false sense of reality. People with clout to have a voice in the West need to make a better effort calling out hypocrisy and downright lies on China. Without which the average Western citizen will continue to believe they have more friends than they do and China is in their insipid group think minds, isolated.

[@ijatpingrhyb]

Well said

[@kimsejrskildnielsen6369]

Thank you very much; You are absolutely right, including that The West lives in a simulated reality - far from the 'real reality'

[@scalarnai]

What an education, what an insight to counter the Western MSM propaganda.

[@KayyHong]

America has much less friends than it knows but they are afraid to speak up for fear of U.S. sanction and regime change. The continued rise of China and others will mitigate this fear.

[@PhiloSurfer]

Yes, only two real US allies - Japan and Australia, and that's because both are under US protection and vassal states of the US.

[@lasercladjoe]

Sarang is one sided, he should find out more from Prof Jeffrey Sachs a true blue American that speaks the truth... My utmost respect to Prof Jeffrey Sachs 👍👍👍

[@tyko2686]

ASEAN wants peace, growth & development and will embrace all great powers that helps ASEAN to move closer to these goals

[@yijiun7553]

What is the strategic significance of Hong Kong and Taiwan, without mainland China? 🤔 How important is ASEAN, without the PRC? 🤫 Why would Japan and South Korea matter, without China? 😱 Who would pivot to the Indo-Pacific, without growing Chinese power and influence? 🫣 中计 They are doing virtually everything within their power to undermine prospects for peaceful reunification, thus indirectly encouraging cross-strait hostility amid security threats which ultimately will greatly expand the role of China's military. 作法自毙，咎由自取！ 此非危言耸听！These aren't hyperboles! 二十年内，北约瓦解！NATO will break, within 20 years max! 十五年内，印太四角联盟崩塌！美日同盟关系犹如泥菩萨过江。美印同盟关系的裂痕将持续扩大！QUAD will dissolve, within 15 years max! Japan and India will likely rebel against the US!

[@thecomment9489]

indeed

[@dryeoh2023]

No intellect dares to speak of the coercion, bullying, threatening, crushing of countries such as Afgan, Libya, Syria, Iraq, etc, etc. Most of the wars on other sovereign countries and regime change had only one schemer - the USA and the proxies such as Nato, quad, aukus, etc. Aseans saw it, knows it but no one dares speak out loud about it. The only countries that speaks out loud is Russia and China who now assume the role at the united nation. However, the hegemonic power is in decline and speedily declining. Thats why we are seeing the coming of Armageddon. Let's continue to observe the moves and the scheming. Unipolar power is coming to an end and include the single reserve currency.

[@limitlesssky3050]

Great assessment. The time of US monopoly is coming to an end, and I greatly welcomes it.

[@beastmode8203]

You literally just said you're witnessing Armageddon. So that means the US will not lose because they will be the last because the nukes are going to fly. China's going to turn to ash so is Russia and so is everybody else.

[@beastmode8203]

@@limitlesssky3050 we will drag you into Armageddon before we ever allow that.

[@kmhoh]

For Mr. Sarang to even question the historical reality of the island of Taiwan as an integral part of China is ridiculous. Should China now question the legitimacy of USA's annexation of the Kingdom of Hawaii? Japan's annexation of the Ryuku Kingdom (Okinawa Prefecture)?

[@KennyL0009]

This is about being #1. The most dangerous is when #1 is about to be surpassed by #2.

[@chaoyoong9987]

the military complexes estimated that they can sell weapons to Europe and West $21 trillion in the next 10 yrs, after Ukraine invasion. By the same token why not instigate and stir up Asia so that the "frightened" men of the east would shore up their defenses by buying $21 trillion in the next 10 yrs ?? marvelous and brilliant strategy. top 7 military complexes all have their sales cut up for next 10 yrs... war war here and war war there, military complexes have strategies eieio

[@duinay3]

Unfortunately, the military industrial complex rules the US government - the people

[@pardeeptandon]

India, China and Russia should try to make a NATO-like military alliance among BRICKS countries. This will make the 21 st century genuinely Asian. All India & China have to do is settle their borders amicably in the uninhabited, barren mountains of the Himalayas.

[@beastmode8203]

They would have no chance against the US and the allies no chance at all

[@michaelparker3188]

Thank you. I love this exchange. Peace not war!😎

[@beastmode8203]

Oh it will definitely be War.

[@johndale1300]

USA doesn't want a postive engagement with Asia it wants to maintain its pememcy in Asia

[@beastmode8203]

Absolutely they should keep their primacy absolutely even if it ends the world. The United States knows well what comes with being number one. That's literally worth nuclear war that's worth dying over, that's worth ending the world over.

[@h3rutirta]

So easy to guess what USA do. They want the Chip bills pass

[@beastmode8203]

We will go to war over Taiwan.

[@paladin7422]

Decoupling is taking place. Next WTO reform will take place.

[@inkbold8511]

Below is a bit of Chinese history I borrowed from a Malaysian KZbinr’s comment: I’m from Malaysia. China has traded with Malaysia for 2000 years. In those years, they had been the world’s biggest powers many times. Never once they sent troops to take our land. Admiral Zhenghe from China came to Malacca five times, in gigantic fleets, and a flagship eight times the size of Christopher Columbus’ flagship, Santa Maria. He could have seized Malacca easily, but he did not. In 1511, the Portuguese came. In 1642, the Dutch came. In the 18th century the British came. We were colonised by each, one after another. When China wanted spices from India, they traded with the Indians. When they wanted gems, they traded with the Persian. They didn’t take lands. The only time China expanded beyond their current borders was in Yuan Dynasty, when Genghis and his descendants Ogedei Khan, Guyuk Khan & Kublai Khan concurred China, Mid Asia and Eastern Europe. But Yuan Dynasty, although being based in China, was a part of the Mongolian Empire. Then came the Century of Humiliation. Britain smuggled opium into China to dope the population, a strategy to turn the trade deficit around, after the British could not find enough silver to pay the Qing Dynasty in their tea and porcelain trades. After the opium warehouses were burned down and ports were closed by the Chinese in ordered to curb opium, the British started the Opium War I, which China lost. Hong Kong was forced to be surrendered to the British in a peace talk (Nanjing Treaty). The British owned 90% of the opium market in China, during that time, Queen Victoria was the world’s biggest drug baron. The remaining 10% was owned by American merchants from Boston. Many of Boston’s institutions were built with profit from opium. After 12 years of Nanjing Treaty, the West started getting really really greedy. The British wanted the Qing government: 1. To open the borders of China to allow goods coming in and out freely, and tax free. 2. Make opium legal in China. Insane requests, Qing government said no. The British and French (with supports from the US), started Opium War II with China, which again, China lost. The Anglo-French military raided the Summer Palace, and threatened to burn down the Imperial Palace, the Qing government was forced to pay with ports, free business zones, 300,000 kilograms of silver and Kowloon was taken. Since then, China’s resources flew out freely through these business zones and ports. In the subsequent amendment to the treaties, Chinese people were sold overseas to serve as labor. In 1900, China suffered attacks by the 8-National Alliance (Empire of Japan, Russian Empire, British Empire (including India), France, USA, Germany, Italy, Austria-Hungary). Innocent Chinese civilians in Peking (Beijing now) were murdered, buildings were destroyed & women were raped. The Imperial Palace was raided, and treasures ended up in museums like the British Museum in London and the Louvre in Paris. In late 1930s China was occupied by the Japanese in WWII. Millions of Chinese died during the occupancy. 300,000 Chinese died in Nanjing Massacre alone. Mao brought China together again from the shambles. There were peace and unity for some time. But Mao’s later reign saw sufferings and deaths from famine and power struggles. Then came Deng Xiao Ping and his infamous “black-cat and white-cat” story. His preference in pragmatism than ideologies has transformed China. This thinking allowed China to evolve all the time to adapt to the actual needs in the country, instead of rigidly bounded to ideologies. It also signified the death of Communism in actually practice in China. The current Socialism+Meritocracy+Market Economy model fits the Chinese like gloves, and it propels the uprise of China. Singapore has a similar model, and has been arguably more successful than Hong Kong, because Hong Kong being gateway to China, was riding on the economic boom in China, while Singapore had no one to gain from. In just 30 years, the CPC have moved 800 millions of people out from poverty. The rate of growth is unprecedented in human history. They have built the biggest mobile network, by far the biggest high speed rail network in the world, and they have become a behemoth in infrastructure. They made a fishing village called Shenzhen into the world’s second largest technological centre after the Silicon Valley. They are growing into a technological power house. It has the most elaborate e-commerce and cashless payment system in the world. They have launched exploration to Mars. The Chinese are living a good life and China has become one of the safest countries in the world. The level of patriotism in the country has reached an unprecedented height. For all of the achievements, the West has nothing good to say about it. China suffers from intense anti-China propagandas from the West. Western Media used the keyword “Communist” to instil fear and hatred towards China. Everything China does is negatively reported. They claimed China used slave labor in making iPhones. The truth was, Apple was the most profitable company in the world, it took most of the profit, leave some to Foxconn (a Taiwanese company) and little to the labor. They claimed China was inhuman with one-child policy. At the same time, they accused China of polluting the earth with its huge population. The fact is the Chinese consume just 30% of energy per capita compared to the US. They claimed China underwent ethnic cleansing in Xinjiang. The fact is China has a policy which priorities ethnic minorities. For a long time, the ethnic minorities were allowed to have two children and the majority Han only allowed one. The minorities are allowed a lower score for university intakes. There are 39,000 mosque in China, and 2100 in the US. China has about 3 times more mosque per muslim than the US. When terrorist attacks happened in Xinjiang, China had two choices: 1. Re-educate the Uighur extremists before they turned terrorists. 2. Let them be, after they launch attacks and killed innocent people, bomb their homes. China chose 1 to solve problem from the root and not to do killing. How the US solve terrorism? Fire missiles from battleships, drop bombs from the sky. During the pandemic, When China took extreme measures to lockdown the people, they were accused of being inhuman. When China recovered swiftly because of the extreme measures, they were accused of lying about the actual numbers. When China’s cases became so low that they could provide medical support to other countries, they were accused of politically motivated. Western Media always have reasons to bash China. Just like any country, there are irresponsible individuals from China which do bad and dirty things, but the China government overall has done very well. But I hear this comment over and over by people from the West: I like Chinese people, but the CPC is evil. What they really want is the Chinese to change the government, because the current one is too good. Fortunately China is not a multi-party democratic country, otherwise the opposition party in China will be supported by notorious NGOs (Non-Government Organization) of the USA, like the NED (National Endowment for Democracy), to topple the ruling party. The US and the British couldn’t crack Mainland China, so they work on Hong Kong. Of all the ex-British colonial countries, only the Hong Kongers were offered BNOs by the British. Because the UK would like the Hong Kongers to think they are British citizens, not Chinese. A divide-and-conquer strategy, which they often used in Color Revolutions around the world. They resort to low dirty tricks like detaining Huawei’s CFO & banning Huawei. They raised a silly trade war which benefits no one. Trade deficit always exist between a developing and a developed country. USA is like a luxury car seller who ask a farmer: why am I always buying your vegetables and you haven’t bought any of my cars? When the Chinese were making socks for the world 30 years ago, the world let it be. But when Chinese started to make high technology products, like Huawei and DJI, it caused red-alert. Because when Western and Japanese products are equal to Chinese in technologies, they could never match the Chinese in prices. First world countries want China to continue in making socks. Instead of stepping up themselves, they want to pull China down. The recent movement by the US against China has a very important background. When Libya, Iran, and China decided to ditch the US dollar in oil trades, Gaddafi’s was killed by the US, Iran was being sanctioned by the US, and now it’s China’s turn. The US has been printing money out of nothing. The only reason why the US Dollar is still widely accepted, is because it’s the only currency which oil is allowed to be traded with. The US has an agreement with Saudi that oil must be traded in US dollar ONLY. Without the petrol-dollar status, the US dollars will sink, and America will fall. Therefore anyone trying to disobey this order will be eliminated. China will soon use a gold-backed crypto-currency, the alarms in the White House go off like mad. China’s achievement has been by hard work. Not by looting the world. I have deep sympathy for China for all the suffering, but now I feel happy for them. China is not rising, they are going back to where they belong. Good luck China.

[@hydroac9387]

Regarding climate change, the USA has had lower total carbon emissions almost every year since 2005 AND per capita carbon emission have decreased almost every year since 2000. These improvements have been due to improved efficiency, switching from coal to natural gas (natural gas has about 40% less CO2 per unit energy, so it is cleaner), and putting green tech online (wind, solar). In the meantime, China is building almost 9 gigawatts of new coal plants for 2022 AND is building new coal plants all over the world with BRI. While I understand that China struggles with its power grid capacity, China is not very green - and putting all that new CO2 in the atmosphere swamps any improvements made by the USA and Europe. China terminated talks with the USA on climate in early August, and it seems unlikely that talks will resume in 2022.

[@Love.life.ashigzoya]

India must quit QUAD . Indian Military Veterans .

[@casiandsouza7031]

Why should Americans have a different attitude towards fellow Americans than to the rest of humanity.

[@nicksee1970]

my assertion is that peace vis a vis the asean nations is greatly challenged by the nine dash line claims by the PRC under the stewardship of the CCP the CCP use the same/similar claims on taiwan on which said claims will also apply to the waters of the south china sea demarcated by the nine dash line as a citizen of an asean country, i have seen the CCP's rhethoric and their actions towards taiwan and; it is just a matter of time such words and actions will also be applied to the south china sea. look at what the CCP have been already doing by unilaterally building island bases on coral atolls in the south china sea. the writing is on the wall so to speak... as such, it is justified that the US and the western world step in to check or limit the advances of the CCP in the asean region and to protect the vital shipping lanes of the south china sea. it is clear the bad actor within this context is the CCP and forces for good should push back significantly to protect peace in asean to justify how serious these claims that are made by the CCP on the teritorial waters marked by the nine dash line, just look at the recent flight path of nancy pelosi from subang airport (KL) to taiwan

[@inkbold8511]

Hey hypocrite, look at yourself in the mirror. US has done all of these plus more and committed hideous human right atrocities around the world. All you are says accusing and nothing more, China is still in her own hemisphere and protecting her home turf. Wtf is American doing on her coastline? If not provoking war on purpose? Again hypocrite you should look yourself in the mirror.

[@good2freelance1]

Mythical dragon looks better, it will never get killed it real life LOL

[@Love.life.ashigzoya]

Extremely envigourative discussion.

[@nicksee1970]

asean wants peace... every right thinking citizen will want peace peace is driven by good actors and peace is destroyed by bad actors so what is the force that drives the actions of good actors and absence of it bad actors? @kishore, the answer is free will. if free will is stifled or snuffed out from the human condition then hard determinism couched on materialism will take root and corrupt. food for thought 😉

[@CarpsterKing]

SRang and Prof Kishore are both apologetic towards US policies... unfortunately Prof Kishhore has to be apologetic towards US is because he needs to sell his " Has :China Won " bk to his American audiences.

[@fredtan1506]

Kishore had always played safe all his life. You can't pin him down.

[@fannybirot2362]

I don't think his end goal is to sell books, more like to promote peace.

[@morrisdonald8795]

#DrObahistoricalherbs.

[@arjalanarayan]

Enjoy

[@marktrinidad7650]

Asian Peril is the bottomline of this.

[@GoldenKhanate06]

Yes and technically yellow peril from the lingering bitterness of the west after Asia conquered more than half of Europe via the Huns and the Mongols

[@zoezhe5234]

You got the dragon colour wrong! The dragon colour it should be golden colour!

[@vivianxu8906]

Exactly, the dragon is so evil-like

[@kaimingraymondchoi9909]

To me democracy has two levels, namely 1) at the State level as the civil right of individuals 2) at the international level where Nations have to respect the wish of the people of other nations.

[@wslai7270]

to me 1) Republic Rome overtaken by Roman Empire 2) Republican America overtaken by ???

[@Love.life.ashigzoya]

This argument takes for granted that rest of the world must submit to American way of life of its political system . This is not acceptable . Americans were not able to clean their bottoms others had great civilisation. Indian Military Veterans.

[@henrywong1486]

Can true democracy co-exist with hegemony? If democracy means free choice of people, is exerting undue pressure and threats not run counter to democracy?

[@beastmode8203]

China is not a democracy.

[@gibsonfoo9212]

Eagerly looking forward to see the leadership of Singapore to help US and China for coming into terms by turning conflict into peace building. Both giants can work together to help the world instead of focusing on self benefits. This is our world; united we stand, divided we fall.

[@limitlesssky3050]

Hahah.....no you're just dreaming. China deeply distrusts ASEAN countries because all of you are traditionally vassal states of the Americans. While the US won't listen to ASEAN because you are their vassal states. This conflict between great powers is not something that ASEAN and Singapore can participate in.

[@gibsonfoo9212]

Then you think which country is more qualified to play this role? I said Singapore is qualified to play the role as arbitrator for these two giants. Singapore has both wisdom and knowledge of the west n east.

[@beastmode8203]

China threatens the global position and economic position of the United States and that will doom you to nuclear war.

[@istiaqmujibtafader]

Even so far, China has responded to American challenges in a more constructive, peaceful, and non-confrontational manner. For China that is a strategic challenge to mitigate a possible risk of war and mitigate possible national security risks. That is only for a perceived anxiety of US, that China may challenge US hegemonic power, influence, and interests, and may attempt to erode American unfair security and prosperity.

[@beastmode8203]

It is impossible to avoid war with the US. If you challenge their Global position and their economic position you are doomed to Armageddon.

[@istiaqmujibtafader]

@@beastmode8203 Yes, it is true that it is impossible to avoid war. Only this war would be the first time in the US war-history that they may have to fight a war with a true peer China. Outcome not yet sure.

[@beastmode8203]

@@istiaqmujibtafader China has never won a war in their history. China has not been to war in over 40 years. A majority of all China soldiers are in their 40s. With the US yiu will get Armageddon that's something you must remember. There's only two options in this whole situation. Either the United States stays the number one economy and the number one Global power in the world or you will face a war that will kill everybody that exists on the planet cuz we are 100% to go nuclear no matter what mutually assured destruction or not. We would rather die in a full-blown nuclear war that kills us all then let China surpass us.

[@casiandsouza7031]

India has moved to the path of multi alignment. Nonalignment is obsolete.

[@fredtan1506]

Kishore has no solid conviction, he’s playing safe.

[@fredtan1506]

@Moni PennyIn that case, Singapore is like Kishore, a weakling.

[@kimcartmill4190]

When listening to Podcasts like this I am reminded of the immortal words of Greta Thunberg “Blah, Blah, Blah". It is not that the discussion is wrong or irrelevant, it is simply a matter of it just being talk and most importantly, the people that need to be in this discussion, the political leaders, are not there. We can only hope that they are having the same discussions.

[@monkeyking-self-proclaimed7050]

How dare you

[@kimcartmill4190]

@@monkeyking-self-proclaimed7050 Dare me for what?

[@auricjaya]

I think all these US - China conflict is not only economical. They're afraid that China would increase her nuclear arsenal to counter the US interests in the region namely - Australia, Japan, South Korea. At the present moment the US Strategic Defense Counter are consider already threatening. As China grows powerful economically, the possibility that China would increase her nuclear arsenal becomes a nightmare to the US.

[@beastmode8203]

All that matters to the United States is being number one. Nuclear weapons would not stop a war with the US if you challenge their global position. You can build a billion nukes they would still go to war over that.

[@GoldenKhanate06]

I mean China has already surpassed that threshold militarily. It's just a matter of time when East surpasses west in every other field

[@jbond9634]

ask taiwanese people what have they been going thru while you are all defending china as being a peaceful country? does china owns taiwan? can a country uses her population of 1.4 billion to justify the right to rule taiwan, a country with 30 million people and to put all of them on a mindset alignment programe.? that will put any country in a dangerous situation,

[@fannybirot2362]

Taiwanese passport says they are CHINESE, they speak and write Chinese, they eat Chinese, they practice Chinese culture, they have Chinese blood, the street names after Chinese cities etc. No matter how you want to lie about it, they ARE Chinese!🤪🤪🤪

[@jimmylee1776]

You don’t know the history of China. For thousands of years Taiwan is province of China. The people of Taiwan are migrants from mainland China. The KMT lost the civil war & ran across to Taiwan. Now they are trying to claim Taiwan as a seperate nation. The majority of the members of UN recognised that Taiwan is part of China. That is why Taiwan is not represented in the UN.

[@lisa.e5776]

Not all Taiwanese wishes to be independent. Some wish to reunite with China. Will England government allow Scotland to separate from England? What about Spain will they allow Catalonia (not sure about the name) to be independent? What about separation of California or Texas from USA?