Did Woman Kill Eight Children due to Cannabis-Induced Psychosis? | Raina Thaiday Case Analysis

[@alisonwilks302]

If I had heard my neighbour who had 8 children walking up the street in a clearly difficult mental state , talking about stabbing her children I would have a duty to report that to the police .

[@nathanchung27]

"It takes a village to raise a child." It apparently takes 8 children being brutally murdered to notice their mother was not capable of raising them, too.

[@marc3095]

@@nathanchung27💔

[@pezeron24]

Or maybe you wouldn't. You just don't know.

[@Sinsteel]

@@nathanchung27 You know that "village" crap is just a Hillary Clinton quote, don't you?

[@garyhost1830]

These are aboriginals. Them wandering the street saying crazy stuff is a daily occurance

[@cabooseabs6864]

It's bizarre to me there is this fear of cannabis making you crazy and dangerous yet this fear doesn't apply to the tens of thousands of people every year due to violence and accidents from alcohol.

[@rebxthom]

Only bc alcohol is and has been socially accepted for so long, otherwise it'd be the same

[@clydebarrow6701]

It depends on the person but weed can make you extremely paranoid, I've been through some crazy trips, even now, I still smoke and have too intense highs sometimes that make me super paranoid

[@clydebarrow6701]

Alot of people I know went all religious after a super bad trip, I believe it can happen

[@Johanisnotreal]

Psychosis will always be something people will be afraid of,same reason people don’t do psychedelics. Possible psychosis is the main reason people are afraid of weed

[@ashlaunicaalpari4584]

I knew someone who smoked alot of weed and ended up developing a serious case of schizophrenia. I believe it’s possible.

[@jacquelinejacobson6789]

My son always seemed off a bit in childhood. As a teen he dropped out of high school refusing to go back. He was a loner, preferring video games over seeking relationships with young women. In his 20's he drove out to Colorado from Florida to avoid an apocalyptic tsunami. He had and acute psychotic episode while driving back; had to pull over and call 911 to help him from harming himself. He was dx with schizophrenia, and the meds helped him to function. My brother was dx with schizophrenia at age 14 in 1964. This mental illness has an apparent hereditary component as well.

[@gothicgirlfriend7375]

Wow. Im so sorry. Thank you for getting him help. You're awesome.

[@dilsiam]

This

[@melissagilbert9654]

Genetics is a bitch!!

[@JRPLawyeress1]

I hope your son is doing better. Mental illness runs in our family. It’s very hard.

[@comecorrect1]

You're a great mom! My mom didn't care about what her kids were going through. We have to figure it out for ourselves. God bless u for doing what u needed to do for your child. This an example of great parenting. 👋

[@VincentNajger1]

I was in Cairns when this happened. It shocked the whole town, but surprised nobody. Murray Street is notorious. There had been a huuuuge heatwave, where temperatures had been around 40c for a week (it would still be above 30c at midnight) and the humidity was inescapable. We even have a term for it in Far North Queensland......"going Troppo". The heat is something that just never gets mentioned in this case (the heat-waves and humidity definitely cause a spike in domestic disturbances and assaults in general. If you don't have air-conditioning, you just suffer). The entire city was in a short tempered mood. She was one of the few 'straight' Auntys in that community, which was a low income, high crime rate area of Cairns. A lot of the housing in the area was Housing Commission accommodation. I think she used to get a lot of kids dumped on her as well. The woman just snapped......Looking after 8+ screaming, badly behaved kids, in that heat, in a tiny house with no aircon, is a great way to absolutely lose the plot.

[@Figsyy]

Thank you for this empathetic and insightful comment. ❤

[@anneloving8405]

That is true the heat/humidity can drive a person insane

[@Daydream_Singularity]

Important local context. Living in Australia where most lower income rental housing has no aircon, I have also heard on numerous occasions reports of increased violence as the heat climbs and stays around. Hot summer predicted by the way. Improve the housing of poorer people, make aircon a requirement. Then add to that the broken mental health system in Australia. Did anyone ever reach out to mental health on her behalf? What happened? Research into the real details of this case is warranted.

[@tasha3757]

I was there too. Everything you're saying is true. Yes, I do remember it being particularly hot during that time. One of the hottest summers in Cairns.

[@jamescleary-px7qp]

And there’s no mental health support, even if she tried to seek it

[@a.evelyn5498]

Something similar happened in my family (trauma dump time). My uncle was Bipolar - which runs in my family - but his symptoms didn’t appear extreme & seemingly very manageable. However, he had a manic psychotic break after not sleeping for almost three weeks, which somehow no one & not even his wife knew the extent of this, & he murdered my grandparents with whom I was incredibly close. I was eleven at the time, one month before I turned twelve. I actually traveled with my grandparents, just we three, for the two Thanksgivings before this occurred to visit him & his family. He had a wife & three small children, the youngest only a year old. He was brilliant, kind, sweet natured, & loving. No one saw this coming. He thought he was saving them, as it seems he believed in their older age (though they were only in their mid 60s & he was 37, which I just realized is only nine years older than I am now…. wow…) they were suffering for some reason. I mean my grandfather had just had triple bypass surgery, but he recovered well. My grandmother was in decent health. But yea he thought they were suffering profoundly & from his writings scribbled earlier that day it seems he feared their eventual death as if it was upcoming. We’re not sure. We do know he tried to resurrect them, of which he believed he was capable & used a gory method I won’t go into for your own sake that he had read about in some weird spiritual text or something. Needless to say it didn’t work, & he sort of snapped out of it though on the 911 call he was talking to nonexistent beings. He tried to kill himself & surrendered to the police unarmed. A rookie cop freaked out & shot him dead. I have a lot of resentment for that cop especially as we will never get to learn more about his mindset. Honestly though it’s better he died… it saved us less pain as the media coverage was already huge - news stories by The New York Times, ABC, NBC, etc. & with news trucks at my family’s driveway as we lived 15 minutes away but no one in my family gave statements, only did their neighbors acting as if they were close… just disgusting as that seems common… people want their 15 minutes of fame during which they can present themselves as morally superior beings. I feel as if only now 15 years later I’m beginning to heal but I’ve also had a bunch of other trauma & I was taken to the crime scene by s family member to be with them as they cleaned, only me & no other child so that destroyed me. Only recently do I feel like I received genuine acknowledgment & apology for that, which I desperately needed. Anyway that’s all. No one will read this anyway- too long. It’s fine with me. I actually regret writing this but it took awhile so I’m not going back now lol

[@StAlphonsusHasAPosse]

May God bless you and the souls of your grandparents

[@CherFREEMarauder]

Very sorry about your loss nd trauma

[@amywill7381]

Wow. I'm glad I kept reading. Don't regret writing that. I think you really needed to write that. I'm so sorry you've gone through such horrific events. And keep healing ❤

[@northernlights6459]

A terrible story, it took courage to share that. I hope you are healing and starting to enjoy your life.

[@tyishasanders3039]

Thanks for sharing your story. And yes I read the entire thing😢

[@TomokoAbe_]

Dr. Grande, I just passed my Psychiatric Mental Health Nurse Practitioner national board certification. Your videos inspired me to get into this field. You never fail to amaze me!

[@predestined97]

Grande is just a man. Don't praise man too much. Praise God. Man is not worthy of praise, and can be easily overcome by pride. Praise God who is worthy of all worship and praise. Behold his mighty works and tremble, all ye his creation.

[@predestined97]

Jesus Christ is the Son of God, and he is eternal life.

[@TomokoAbe_]

@@predestined97 Dr. Grande is a very well educated man and my university linked some of his videos as part of my studies for DSM 5 memorization. He deserves all the praise in the world.

[@TomokoAbe_]

@@predestined97 Praise God? Which God. There are so many to choose from!

[@predestined97]

@@TomokoAbe_ I have already told you. If you have ears to hear, then hear.

[@MakeupMobster]

Schizophrenia is terrifying. It really is. I honestly feel badly for anyone who has it. Absolutely horrifying.

[@OldDeadBread]

Hands down the most serious condition possible, it’s heartbreaking.

[@jenguinofdoom4747]

I loved someone for 18 years before he left us due to his Schizophrenia. Yes, it is absolutely horrifying. It destroys everything around it.

[@thebigpicture2032]

My brother’s ex had it, she destroyed everything around her. There was no curing her.

[@KellyHaygood]

It’s a nightmare

[@TheGrmany69]

One of the few diagnoses that recommends using lobotomy/ shock therapy. It's usually treated with parkinson's disease medication.

[@donprice9050]

Two people I grew up with were diagnosed with schizophrenia in their mid to late twenties. They both started using cannabis heavily long before the diagnosis. I believe they were having symptoms and used cannabis to try and deal with it long before things fell apart. And to this day neither one considers themselves mentally ill.

[@AmandaPaige71]

My cousin had schizophrenia and he used weed to self medicate bc the anti psychotic drugs made him feel awful bc of the side effects. He finally self concluded bc he couldn't handle life as it was for him any longer. May he RIP.

[@Daydream_Singularity]

Yes, the fact that people who have serious mental illness are not aware of this,don't think it's true, is why they do not get treatment before such things occur. It would take a serious incident to put them into treatment against their will. The mental health system in Australia gets lost between human rights and serious mental illness. The pendulum has swung too far. The system is now basically saying...you have the human right to choose to continue on without treatment even though people around you have clear evidence of serious mental illness. As we see in this case, the final tragedy was extensive and included a mother who killed her own children in a psychotic break but now is being treated. Hence, the PTSD mentioned.

[@momkatmax]

​@AmandaPaige71 So sorry for your loss. That decision is one that can't be changed and affects the loved ones you leave behind.

[@AmandaPaige71]

@@momkatmax tysm ♥ I just pray he's at peace now ya know? He struggled so much. Anyway, ty! Hope you're having a good day 🤗

[@sparky6086]

Marijuana can trigger paranoid schizophrenia, but if it doesn't trigger it, when it's ready to manifest itself, something else will. Maybe a car backfires, etc. People are preordained to have paranoid schizophrenia from it being passed down through their family.

[@bellsina7150]

My brother was one of the first writers for the Onion Newspaper in Madison. It was just 4 guys in the beginning in a small little office right next to the campus. I remember when they got their first subscription outside of the US, it was so exciting. My daughter was on the front cover of the Onion when she was a toddler. The article was titled, Whose baby is this? My brother was extremely intelligent, very creative, and a great writer. He started smoking marijuana in college, and in the years to come that's when this whole personality started to change and he became paranoid schizophrenic. The drugs definitely were the gateway to that coming out. He ended up dying at 32 of colon cancer, so it was like losing him twice. I called The Onion in New York to ask if I could get some of his writings on the film's they have. One of the people I spoke with told me that he was a legend because of all the great writings he had done for the Onion like Farmer Halloway. I miss him so much and his wonderful personality!!!

[@northernlights6459]

He really does sound like legend. What a talented guy. I hope he is at peace now.

[@elizabethhamm5320]

Those poor children. I wish that their fathers or other family members had protected them. I’m so glad that you are releasing a video detailing this case. The information you gave should be widely known.

[@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla]

we have an obvious overpopulation problem

[@normal_person2]

Why did you assume there were multiple fathers? She could've had 7 kids with one man...

[@Mrs_Small]

@@normal_person2he says quote “7 of her children by various fathers”

[@ZYX84]

@@normal_person2😢

[@mjanny6330]

@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla it's quite the opposite actually.

[@thebusinesswoman23]

As a medical marijuana patient myself, when i heard you say "20 cones a day", i heard enough. To have that amount for anyone, but especially someone with possible non diagnosed psychosis or a disorder, is absolutely mind blowing to me! Marijuana is a medication, to misuse it can of course it can , in a small percentage of people , can help CAUSE mental health or physical health issues ! A large cone can be around 0.7 -1.2 grams. I have cptsd, mdd, a seizure disorder, panic disorder, ibs and a vomiting disorder. I have never needed more than .4 in one day, (on my most symptomatic days) . I understand everyone is different. I don't enjoy the "high" from marijuana so i only use what i need for my emotional/physical symptoms.

[@twocents7495]

Gobbledegook

[@tasha3757]

Wow! Those numbers are truly eye opening as to the actual amount she was having in a day relative to a medical dose of 0.4g per day.

[@gthktty666]

that doesn't apply to her. australian cone pieces are smaller than a thimble, and most commonly filled with a mixture of half tobacco half weed. so no where near that amount at all. edit: I thumb screwed an aussie cone piece filled of weed and weighed it on my micro scales, so a cone piece can hold maximum 0.04g of dried flower. so since she most likely used it mixed w tobacco, that would put her total consumption at 0.4g a day of non-medical grade cannabis. ironically the same amount you say if your max dose, although granted hers would have a much lower thc percentage since it's not medical grade

[@WaryJester]

So you're saying Cheech and Snoop are actually insane, extremely mentally ill, and likely to randomly make attempts on their family's lives? YOUR medical dose was a certain amount, because you don't like the high just the benefits. Some people don't mind the high but will get high and sometimes stay high if they need too. I know a lady with CP who is in a wheelchair, her other meds sucked so her friends got her illegal weed (illegal at the time, I believe she has a medical card now) and made brownies for her once a week. She's doing fine 5 years later. Never been better and staying as healthy as she can. It was really the only way to manage her pain and anxieties.

[@mossyfriends1911]

Now I thought I was a lazy pothead who smoked a bit too much. But goddamn TWENTY???? I really feel like these sorts of cases involving weed are always extreme. It’s not like in old drug PSAs where if you even look at a joint you become a hardened criminal.

[@Swanky95472]

I took care of my brother who has schizophrenia for 10 years. I finally had to let him go, because I thought he was going to kill me. He’s now homeless and living in and out of jail. It’s very sad.

[@JordanBarronWolfe]

You did all you could and more than most. Sorry about your brother.

[@secretsauce4530]

did he actually attack you or just threatened you(or even just hinted?). if he attacked you that's his fault, but if you kicked him out because of some sort of perceived threat than you sound like a real bitch.

[@Stardustpal25]

The system are so inadequate, so sorry for your lost battle.

[@sssinfullyyours]

@@Stardustpal25you wanted to close the asylums so they did, now deal with it.

[@jessicab3986]

So sorry

[@dlc5166]

I'm guessing she was self-medicating with the cannabis at a rate of 20 joints per day. So, a month before this she went cold turkey - no alcohol, marijuana or other drugs in her house. While it's good to get off substances, could the sudden shock to her system bring on a strong psychosis? I'm not a doctor, so I can't really say. Tragic case.

[@Air_Serpent]

That actually makes sense...decades of relaxation with weed and then suddenly dropping it, facing stress sober. Stress can also cause schizophrenia to flare up.

[@ekelly1642]

I was thinking this exact thing! I do believe that she would have eventually started to have symptoms that cannabis couldn't cover up, but stopping it the way she did probably caused a large influx of symptoms being noticed where as before they were being suppressed. Either way, those poor children 😕 😞

[@evelynwaugh4053]

I have a slightly different take. Having any withdrawal could certainly make her cranky, ill, irritable, and less able to parent, but sudden psychosis due to years of use doesn't seem likely. I suspect that the emerging psychosis, characterized by religious delusions, was what made her think pot was bad. So her stopping pot was more just a result of the religious component of the emerging psychosis, than a cause.

[@elektrosonic]

⁠​⁠@@Air_Serpenttriggered an old esquizofrenia

[@belmum1689]

I used smoke about 50 joints everyday for over 27yrs I thought I will never give it up but a yr ago I finally give it up cold turkey I wish I done it sooner, in fact I wish I never smoked the shit in the first place, now I have COPD from smoking that shit at the moment I have pneumonia b/c I got a virus which turned to pneumonia

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

How is it this woman had custody of any of these children? this is awful.

[@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla]

please don't judge Africans too harshly

[@tessaducek5601]

@@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla Sure its her race! Move on..

[@tessaducek5601]

Australia.

[@Air_Serpent]

The state definitely failed those children. She had threatened one of them- that should've been the warning.

[@GigiRulesTheRoost]

@@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla 🙄

[@tasha3757]

Thank you for covering this. I live in her town, and I recently visited their tombstones at our local cemetery. It's a beautiful memorial site with a rose on each of the children's gravestones. I still remember the day it happened; our community was deeply distraught over the Murray St tragedy. The street is a tight-knit community; my heart broke for all the residences and family/friends who were grieving. Dr Grande didn't go in to detail, but the way those young children died was truly horrific. I felt it said a lot about our failures in mental health care because if Raina had received adequete treatment, I feel this tragedy may have been prevented. Especially if she was exhibiting mental health symptoms as early as 2007, 7 years prior to the homicides. I'm surprised to see that this story has reached international headlines, though! Thank you for sharing the story of these eight children, Dr. Grande. May their souls rest in peace 🙏

[@maddogmorgan1]

I was working in Cairns hospital when it came on the radio, it was well known in the health care/social work/welfare/mental health agencies the issues she was having but the relevant agencies refused to remove the children for fear of 'racism' allegations and the 'stolen generation' etc etc

[@nowayhosay50]

Yeah I can imagine, nobody wants to get involved with or deal with that.

[@staticskeletons7538]

Thank you for your continuous contribution to KZbin, I genuinely look forward to your uploads each day

[@catchtwenty22]

He is actually the best. The whole progression of the channel too. So well done. This man owns KZbin if it were a monarchy he would be King. Not a regular King a cool one.

[@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla]

​@@catchtwenty22 he attracts homosexuals for some reason

[@gardener_dad]

Especially when it may or may not involve "Alien Lizard Humanoids".

[@purplerain2314]

​@@Dr.Pancho.Tortillamaybe they enjoy his channel the same as everyone else.

[@greatamericandreamrealty802]

​@@catchtwenty22I, too, love watching the progression of the channel.

[@mariaraya6551]

I don't drink alcohol or do drugs but it seems to me alcohol is much more harmful than cannabis.

[@musicplug1730]

Its much easier to get too high vs getting too drunk which is my concern. You can take one small brownie and it can make you extremely paranioid if you dont know what youre doing. Especially for younger people

[@RoastFlea61]

@@musicplug1730and if you never drink you could take a couple shots a be pretty drunk. I don’t get your point. Know your limits. You can’t say “well people get paranoid when they’re high and do things they wouldn’t normally” As if drunk people don’t do things they normally wouldn’t. You see like 4 cases a year of someone claiming it was “cannabis induced psychosis” that made them commit a crime, and suddenly the media goes insane. But the hundreds of drunk drivers, and the hundreds of drunk domestic violence cases don’t catch any kind of media attention. To me alcohol is far more destructive than weed. I know people who have smoked for 30+ years non stop, and have never once become violent from being high. But I know several people who get angry and belligerent when they’re drunk, yet they still drink all the time.

[@thelocalmaladroit8873]

Thanks for the explanations on schizophrenia and psychosis Doc. It’s still hard to believe that she did this.

[@Fnstine]

If she lived stateside this would be just another day in the hood.

[@raquellofstedt9713]

a woman in California drowned five of her children in a psychotic episode. In her case, they think it was post partum. She then tried to hang herself. She won´t be getting out of prison, but at least she is one of the few in the correctional system who gets mental health care. It happens. It´s unbelievably tragic. And at least in the states, mental health services for the poor (in California there are services ) are overloaded and often, not located in great areas, and it seems like everything is set up to make getting help hard. Don´t know how it is in Queensland. Peace to the babies. And I hope, culpable or not, Raina gains some peace. I agree with you, Dr. Grande. She needs to be kept away, where she can be taken care of.

[@martiwaterman1437]

@@Fnstine Maybe in your hood.

[@Canyoutakemebackwhereicamefrom]

Hello from Australia. I remember that case😢 I lived next door to a schizophrenic man growing up. It was terrifying he stabbed my cat, he loosened the bolts on my other neighbours four wheel drive and caused him to nearly crash, he would get up on the roof and howl like a wolf, he also stole a cross headstone from a graveyard and placed it in his yard facing our house, he stalked my mum, moved items in our home, stole my clothes of the line and he would always just watch me. If I was in the backyard he was in his backyard, if I was in the front yard he would stand in the front also. He would refer to my dad as the re incarnation of a previous tenant who was named Oscar and made violent threats towards him. We would complain to the police but we never had enough proof as he would act normal by the time they would show up. Eventually the other neighbours got together and made a complaint as a group because they were also experiencing threats. Finally social workers would come to his house and make sure he was taking his medication. The meds made him very lethargic and zombie like but he would still do creepy stuff. His behaviour was still very unsettling and we just weren't taken seriously. A restraining order was granted to make him stay of our property and it meant he had to keep a few metres distance but that didn't exactly help as he was still able to live next door and able to watch us from his yard and follow our movements. Finally my dad had enough one day when he tried to harm our pet dog. Since the system had failed to protect us or the other neighbours from his violent outbursts my dad went over to his house and confronted him physically. I won't say what he did, but interestingly from that day forward the guy never once bothered us again. I guess he was crazy but not stupid. He did have control over his actions after all. I do think he was crazy but it's hard to know just how much of his behaviour was out of his control given that when he became the one in fear he stopped harassing us. I'm not saying this is the ideal way to treat ppl with mental illness, but in our case I think my father did the right thing, it was clear that no one was going to help us. All the agencies viewed him as the victim rather than us. I've often thought that australia is a bit to laid back. Like ppl have to voluntarily commit themselves to psych wards their family can't force them to go or have a say over it. Usually I'm all for personal freedom but the paradox is that freedom often comes at the expense of the safety of innocent ppl so it is a bit of an ethical conundrum.

[@muttlee9195]

Your dads a hero ❤

[@phakoo23]

Hope your dad gave that psycho a satisfying ass whooping. Sick of society holding the hands of these harmful people and just trying to subdue them temporarily with drugs.

[@Canyoutakemebackwhereicamefrom]

@@muttlee9195 aww thanks. He really is the best dad and he is the most zen person I know, never starts a fight...but he will finish one if he has too 😉.

[@PetalPalmer]

Wow, I haven’t heard of this one before - such a very tragic case. It’s so important that people get the help needed when dealing with any mental health issues. Thank you for shedding light on this story. Always appreciate the effort you put into your videos!

[@valeriemarott1923]

Many mentally ill people refuse to admit they have a problem and refuse to accept help. Until they hurt themselves or others our system respects the rights and privacy of these people. I don't know what we can change that will help these mentally ill persons while still protecting sane people from being unjustly committed like men who didn't like their wives used to do in the past. I have a sister who is incredibly ill but she hasn't acted dangerously on her delusions....yet. All we can do is wait and hope.

[@eden_aumakua]

How exactly does a delusional person seek mental health system? Highly unlikely.

[@Dr.Pancho.Tortilla]

​@@valeriemarott1923 how to identify if someone is "mentally ill?" Dr. Grande for example

[@valeriemarott1923]

What are your thoughts on family friends and neighbors who know the person is experiencing psychosis but are told or know that nothing can be done until they hurt themselves or others. They refuse treatment and help and believe their delusions are real. What can society do to help them and protect the rest of us?

[@nanagsfunkyjunk]

This is how I lost my 21 yo son

[@jkjives1786]

​@@nanagsfunkyjunkI'm very sorry. Once they're of age, there's nothing you can do unless they can be committed for being a danger to themselves or others. And then they always get out before they're completely better.

[@georgieeve2026]

It really depends on each individual and their specific circumstances. Finding out what needs they have that are unmet and getting them met. Whether it be a need for long term secure, affordable, housing (which includes having a working aircon! It sounds silly but it's really not imo.. the heat and humidity wave at the time of the unalivings was unbearable). Or if a person has unmet needs around money, addiction, trauma, PND, physical help raising 8 kids, neurotransmitter issues, not knowing what services are available, or loneliness/lack of meaningful social connection. We don't know this lady or what it was like to be her neighbour or family member. But since she had 8 children, perhaps she could have recieved more support in that area. Maybe it could become mandatory to check in with parents more often who have 6/7/8+ kids? 🤔 I don't know if they were all her bio children or if there were some foster children or family's children too. Teachers, peer support visitors, support groups, regular doctor visits etc. Financial assistance is a huge factor in being able to get help anywhere. If you have a lot of money, you can usually be seen faster by therapists, and you can get admitted into private hospitals for comprehensive stays. All public mental health places are under-staffed though.. So, getting more people to work in the field, having the government change the way it distributes funding for mental health and housing. Unfortunately no matter what we do and how good we do it, some people are just going to refuse treatment/assistance. There are some people who are also treatment resistant aswell (meaning, no form of medication is effective in treating the persons symptoms, including treatments like electro-convulsive therapy). Sometimes we can't help or fix a person :( All we can do is have an open heart, patience, compassion and kindness toward them. I didn't really answer your question sorry 🥴 Thank you for caring about others and asking the important questions :) ♡♡

[@ozgal6929]

Yes this happened near my home ín Cairns, North Queensland, Australia. It was the most horrific case of child murder ive ever encountered and it breaks my heart to this day 😢

[@robertstone9988]

How cheep is weed thare? I'm not understanding how some one with all them kids by different dads(I assume on government assistance) can afford a 20 joint a day habit? That's more than a Oz a week. That's Tommy Chong numbers😂

[@ozgal6929]

​@@robertstone9988up in north Queensland is prime growing country , lots of good rainforest type ground to hide the plants. It's likely she had a source that made it affordable. Scientific research now shows a huge link with psychosis and early use of Mary Jane aka 14 . I've seen it first hand myself , so it's likely this woman started smoking it ín her youth. I'm not a user myself , but I do know people who are and it's not that expensive in the country towns where it's grown. It depends on where you source if from I guess and if it's home grown. If it high grade head , or just bush maryjane. What I do know is it's readily available úp there .

[@jeniferjoseph9200]

@@robertstone9988how is this what you are focused on

[@ozgal6929]

@@jeniferjoseph9200 the lad was just curious how this woman could afford a 20 a day bong habit whilst havíng 8 children ín her care. You get alot of govt money for 8 children.

[@GhastlyCretin]

​@@jeniferjoseph9200It's a fair question

[@deborahosborne9426]

Omg. Imagine having that psychotic break then coming 'to' and realising what you'd done. That's a life sentence in itself.

[@MlewIs-qr5ot]

She ain't ever coming to I have feeling once go full crazy no going back its like POint of no return

[@deborahosborne9426]

@@MlewIs-qr5ot no, I broke and had a short psychotic break whilst under extreme, prolonged stress. I came back. Fortunately I just walked until I couldn't anymore 🙃. I live rurally, if I'd been stuck in a town? I hope she doesn't awake.

[@jackiegrice714]

You knocked this one out of the park Dr. Grande. I really enjoyed your detailed breakdown of what constitutes an insanity defense.

[@Ragdollz]

When my nephew was in a 2 week psychosis, he said afterwards it was like he had voices telling him what to do. Anyone that tried to get close to him, the voices would say they worship the anti Christ and to run. It was the most insane thing I've ever seen. He never had an prior mental health issues and hasn't had any after either (he's not medicated)

[@Swansong321]

How scary for him..glad he's ok

[@sarahd8093]

How old is he?

[@darklorddisco]

Uhhhh....he may want to consult a mental health professional. Hearing voices & experiencing psychosis for TWO WEEKS doesn’t happen for no reason and it doesn’t just happen once...

[@TheDramacist]

​@darklorddisco it can when on cannabis. And a range of other drugs that cross the blood brain barrier can induce temporary psychosis. Many of these experiences disappear after the drug is fully excreated. Any residual positive symptoms like hearing voices or hallucinations need to be treated by a doctor immediately. Cannabis can cause irreversible psychosis too. This appears to happen in people with a family history of MH issues, but not exclusively just them. Obvsly it's unethical to test this as a theory. I'm a clinical pharmacist and do my best to answer to the best of my knowledge using peer reviewed sources. As a stupid teen, long before University, I tried THC and had a very scary bout of derealisation, but no pyschosis. It actually encouraged me to take psychopharmacology in my master's year as my specialty. I would discourage recreational drug use. The risks are too great.

[@derkeheath5172]

I started taking a fairly low dose of Prozac a few years ago. It made me hear voices, have waking nightmares where an old man was ripping the sheets off of me and hiding in the corner, and obsess over suicidal thoughts. Luckily my doctor had warned me that these are all possible symptoms. I quickly switched back to using Citalopram, but it was a VERY sobering experience to know how quickly the mind can go south. If my doctor hadn't warned me, it would have been MUCH worse. A friend of mine had a similar response (but not as harsh) when he switched from Prozac to Citalopram - the exact opposite of what I'd done.

[@brandon8900]

I've smoked for years, and I'll say I've only ever been paranoid or anxious as a result, I've never hallucinated. I don't believe marijuana can make you hallucinate unless you're already susceptible to it.

[@jkjives1786]

It can make you psychotic if you're predisposed to bipolar.

[@Dee-JayW]

⁠@@jkjives1786yes, but it is not a hallucinogen. If you are predisposed to personality disorders, using any drug whether alcohol or cannabis or most likely, a hallucinogen MAY bring it out.

[@Daydream_Singularity]

So then, the important thing is early diagnosis of mental health issues.

[@jkjives1786]

@@Daydream_Singularity Definitely helps. But you can still get into a situation where an adult child refuses help. 👏

[@jkjives1786]

@@wmdkitty You don't know what you're talking about. I've seen it happen with a relative.

[@wallace5081]

Just a reminder that this also happens all the time with mothers, and sometimes fathers, who don’t use cannabis. Considering how murders committed by people under the influence of cannabis are likely quite rare, I’m not certain this is the drug’s fault.

[@E.C.Animation]

Especially since she hadn't been using for at least a month. So what then? Are they trying to say psychosis caused by cannabis use only happens a month after someone stops using it? Pfft. More likely she always had issues and her 20 rolls a day was her attempt at self medicating. Seems the trouble started when she stopped. But there's me just looking at the facts.

[@toidIllorTAmI]

No duh, she is using an excuse and justifying her murder spree by blaming it on a drug that is famous for couch locking people.

[@carriefawcett9990]

It doesn't happen all the time, it's very rare. Cannabis is a risk factor in psychosis, particularly in people who are predisposed. It's silly defending a drug which is still psychoactive mind altering chemicals. Cannabis was definitely a factor in this case and cannot be ignored. Cannabis is not good for you, it's absolutely deleterious, possibly even catastrophic for people with schizophrenia. Dr Grande used the word "contributed" and has the research to back up this claim. Scientific research does not care what weed Heads have to say defending weed. Science is facts.

[@JBplumbing12]

@@E.C.Animation The psychosis caused by cannabis is marked by delusions more than hallucinations. The hallucinations are short term but delusions last for decades, even life long. Delusions are false beliefs about oneself. Delusions are why cannabis smokers sit on couch all day and when asked what they do they tell others they are a writer, artist, inventor, etc. Even decades after they stop smoking cannabis their delusion persists and even strengthens each time they ruminate on it.

[@Air_Serpent]

But they probably drink alcohol, which is even worse for schizophrenia.

[@LavaLahaie]

You’d think stabbing eight children to death would be difficult or near impossible. Wouldn’t the first couple of victims have made noise to alert the other children of the situation? Maybe she started with the oldest one? Good Lord, thoughts and prayers.

[@Aflacist]

Maybe she did stealth kills like in Dishonored or Assassin's Creed

[@codexmachina1358]

​@@Aflacistjesus bro lmfao

[@COD4JESSE]

+10 points for stealth, if you approach from behind while crouching.

[@garyhost1830]

They are aboriginals. They would be that used to hearing their siblings screaming and getting bashed that they probably didn't react the way you would expect

[@codexmachina1358]

@garyhost1830 devonians. Just played far cry primal.

[@luckysunbird8862]

Hi Dr. Grande. I am from Cairns . This was a huge shock and so disturbing to the whole community. The house was demolished and a park for the community has been built there. So very very sad.

[@dicedrice7216]

May those sweet innocent angels rest in peace. Seems like she'll spend her life in an endless loop of insanity. Because even if she could be successfully treated as soon as she would regain sanity she'd realize she murdered 8 children and then she be right back to crazy town. There really is no way out for her. The death penalty would be a mercy killing. Poor woman is going to spend the rest of her life like this. This must be an unimaginable nightmare for her surviving son who found the victims.

[@StormyAfterDark]

Shes complaining that she has no money, but she smoked up to 20 a day, at between 15 to 20 dollars each. If she was on meds for schizophrenia then I could see where the pot would interfere. Thanks for your insight. I agree with you 100%. Ive known many pot smokers who smoked occasionally, and acted perfectly fine. And Ive known pot smokers who smoked an excessive amount, who acted like lunatics.

[@kellibabb6141]

When I was a teen, I had a friend with schizophrenia. She was fine most of the time to take out to social gatherings. We would tell people not to get her high off weed because then her being fine was 100% over. People thought it was funny to get her high after being told that. Ugh. We stopped taking her for her well-being and she just went out with others who exploited her for entertainment.

[@paul9156c]

Was she a German named Christine?

[@marlinfisher2529]

yes - the poor children. It is tragic when anyone starts taking drugs at a young age - when the brain is very easily negatively effected.

[@manewland1]

Another interesting (but very sad) case; I really appreciate the level of detail and insight you unfailingly provide. Thanks, as always, Dr. Grande.

[@robyndawson8858]

Moderation is key to keeping healthy. Too much of anything can harm your mind and body. She sounds like she did things in excess, no regulator. So sad.

[@TomokoAbe_]

Thank you for the video, Dr. Grande. I never heard of this until now. Very interesting case. Very insightful video.

[@law3344]

I love all the people in the comments who think weed is so great for you. Take it from me, someone who’s smoked almost every day for 3-4 years. I’ve had times where I thought I was tripping tf out, and I also have terrible eating problems when I try to quit smoking. I will literally not be able to consume any food for 2-3 days and be a bag of bones. It’s not all fine and dandy like everyone thinks it is. I know it is for some people, but it can definitely bring problems with it. I think the biggest reason is the potency of it nowadays. It is not the same weed our parents were smoking at all.

[@megleland6320]

Just because you are found not criminally responsible, doesn't mean you should ever be free ever again. Not being legally responsible isn't the same as not having justice done. This women should never ever walk free from a locked facility.

[@shameronstar7220]

The psyhospital is worse than prison

[@CapnWack]

Not being criminally responsible exactly means you should not be in jail or prison.

[@MakerInMotion]

@@shameronstar7220 The psyhospital is a place where you can manipulate your way to a very quick release. Why do you think so many killers attempt an insanity defense? You don't have to join a gang. People with clipboards ask you questions and if you tell them what they want to hear, they will set you free. Play your cards right and you could do less time for murder than people do for robbery. Vincent Weiguang in Canada murdered and beheaded a stranger on a bus and was a free man 9 years later. Guy knew how to smooth talk clinical psychologists.

[@megleland6320]

@@CapnWack Not jail or prison, no. A locked mental health ward where her meds and treatment are monitored daily. Doesn't mean justice isn't done when declared not guilty.

[@megleland6320]

@willrivers1819 For mental health treatment, and not released until "cured". Psychosis so bad you murder 8 people, your own children, will never be cured to the point she can be seen not to be a danger to herself and others.

[@sylvain123]

This was such a tragic case in my country. I confess that I smoked marijuana twice when a teenager, both times under peer pressure. Both times hallucinated. After that I never did it again, and stopped hanging out with the group of so called friends. I instinctively knew that I was vulnerable to some weird sort of reaction to it especially if I continued. We have a gut instinct for a reason. Thankful I listened to it 🙏

[@fightingtosurvive6527]

Yeah well I'm in California where it's delivered to your house legally, and cannabis has been proven to help cure cancer as well as management of many other diseases -- cannabis is a miraculous plant that was given to us by the gods. Don't demonize cannabis just because you couldn't handle it. 😙💨

[@Naijella86]

I remember when this happened. There’s not many KZbin videos on it but you did a brilliant analysis and you really explained the insanity defence very well, regarding the concept of human life.

[@sngray11]

I remember hearing about this heartbreaking case. Thank you for analysis Dr. Grande. My thoughts and prayers are with the family and loved ones of the eight children that lost their lives.

[@MelvinJ64]

Thanks for all these cases I probably would never have heard of if you hadn't researched and covered them. You worked so hard on this channel. You are by far the most prolific true crime content creator on KZbin. Must be the work ethic you acquired through your journey in Academia 💪

[@theresehopkins1581]

When a person loses touch with reality, the results should never be underestimated. Truer words were never spoken Dr. Grande! This tragedy could and should have been prevented!!💔

[@annazaman9657]

It seems like paranoid schizophrenia to me. She probably had some symptoms prior to cannabis use and the drug just made it even worse

[@elizabethwarman9028]

Good evening Dr Grande, excellent analysis. I agree with you. As always I learn something new from your videos. Have a great evening.

[@ThisHaloFan]

1 mistake in this video: a “cone” of cannabis is not like a joint but larger (you may be thinking of the term “blunt”). “Cone” in Australia refers to the amount of cannabis one packs into the cone piece of a bong. So significantly less than a joint typically

[@stefanmarraccini8646]

This makes no sense. First he/she says a cone is more than joint (larger), and then says that a cone "amount" of cannabis less than a joint.

[@reversefulfillment9189]

Crazy folks that don't smoke weed are as crazy as the ones that do.

[@Elle-om4nf]

But cannabis (or other substances) can trigger psychosis in people who wouldn't otherwise have had an episode, so the etiology is important for treatment.

[@Robespierre-lI]

​​@@Elle-om4nf I'm sorry. I have to correct you on this. You have it backwards. Cannabis can induce a psychotic break in people who are PRONE to psychotic illnesses - not people who are not likely to have psychosis. What you wrote is what some psychiatrists thought might be the case many decades ago, but it's simply not true. The concern comes when it induces a psychotic break in some earlier in life than they might have otherwise experienced - or if it ruins the recovery of someone who is in treatment. It's important to get this kind of thing correct.

[@Elle-om4nf]

@@Robespierre-lI I don’t have it backwards. Anyone can have a psychotic break; the right stressors, hormonal shifts, or substances can cause one and once they’re removed, it never happens again. People just don’t want to think that cannabis can cause it in someone who otherwise wouldn’t have had the episode. It’s well documented.

[@RoastFlea61]

@@Elle-om4nfnobody has ever gone their entire life perfectly fine, smoked weed, and suddenly become a psycho, literally never. There’s always prior issues and/or conditions.

[@Elle-om4nf]

@@RoastFlea61 First off, there’s a difference between a psychotic episode and being a psychopath. I’m not sure why people need to speak in absolutes and say that THC is never the cause of a psychotic episode, when it happens all the time with substances… it seems to be understandable if you say an episode occurred due to alcohol or meth. I’ve been working in mental health for over 20 years, and there are certainly instances where psychosis is induced by substances; there are even diagnoses in the DSM for it.

[@ReesieandLee]

My daughter was dx schizophrenic at 19 or 20. She used to have horrible audible and visual hallucinations, she’s doing so well on her meds right now. But, I honestly worry about one day waking up to her standing over me with a knife.

[@CherFREEMarauder]

I took all butcher knives out my home. Only butterknives. I understand. And no guns either of course

[@phakoo23]

Wow. Comforting to know people like your daughter are running around. Lol. Death just knocking at the door everywhere

[@cactusitude]

​@@phakoo23Idiot

[@Flamsterette]

Never heard of this one. Thanks for the upload, Dr. Grande!

[@banana_hammock7158]

Can you do a video on the Carlee Russell press conference that happened today? Thanks

[@50PullUps]

what happened?

[@audralynn7454]

You know he's already on it! Maybe we'll get lucky with a double video drop today!!

[@sunnycatc6491]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say YES, Dr. Grande. Thank you!

[@GenosectKingRevived]

I remember hearing about this in school when it happened and it shocked everyone. Not only this, but Peshawar and a local case of child murder happened in my area a week or so before Christmas.

[@marlinfisher2529]

As always Dr Grande your analysis is brilliant, insightful and a pleasure to listen to. Well done and many thanks for your intellectual analysis and cacti fascination.

[@raynaudier8622]

Um.. "Rayna had been using cannabis since the 9th grade.. and was smoking 20 cones [joints] a day." If someone has "20 drinks a day".. we would feel the same way, like yeah, this ain't gonna end well.

[@justinkelly3106]

My 61 year old dad just got out of the mental hospital and was diagnosed with cannabis induced psychotic disorder. He has been mentally stable his entire life. He ate a powerful gummy and smoked and in one day he was completely out of his mind. Hearing voices, paranoid, saying he was going to kill his sons and grandson, threatening suicide. He was released today after 1 week, but he still believes the voices were real. It would not have surprised me at all if he had killed someone or himself…I’ve always thought it was a relatively safe drug, but in high enough doses to prompt psychosis, it is as dangerous as any drug in the world…I just searched it and it’s unbelievable how many murders are committed while in cannabis induced psychosis.

[@minakoa7178]

“Why didn’t she seek help. Why didn’t she help herself” Because she was out of touch with reality and didn’t think she needed help. hello?

[@odonata9838]

Thank you, Dr. Grande! All the education without the student loans. 🧑‍🏫🙌

[@louisal7185]

Bonsoir Docteur! This is the most horrendous shocking case i've ever heard. A totaly insane woman had 7 (!!) kids by different , i guess the same kind of men + 1 adopted child and brutaly massacred them all( poor souls ,RIP ) 🤦‍♀️😢 and was found not responsible for all that since she was a schizophrenic and drug addict! 🤯🤦‍♀️ Merci Docteur for your exellent ,impressive analysis. Bravo et bon courage! 👍👏

[@rogerwilco8146]

I think you did well on this video.. Thank you for your hard work ,and ive noticed how much you have put into these videos.

[@elco2737]

I'm more inclined to think she had mental disorders for a very long time and used the cannabis as a way to self-medicate. It probably regulated her to some degree when she was using it, and the abrupt cessation of it is what caused her symptoms to exacerbate out of control. Either way, this is an incredibly sad story.

[@terrencewalker8219]

A cone is typically far smaller than a joint. It is the part of a bong (water pipe) where cannabis is contained and burned.

[@LynnE507]

I've been smoking weed for 20+ years. It's legal here in Canada (with certain restrictions) I was quite surprised to pick up at my local liquor store and the packaging had a warning label about how it can bring about psychosis, anxiety, schizophrenia and/or make these symptoms worse if they are already present. Weed kind of has been a help to me for my severe depression, but I never thought it could bring about such a severe action like taking these children's lives. Always used to joke about how no one ever murdered anyone on weed, except maybe murdering the munchies. Not funny now.

[@adshaj]

I think it’s important to know that people with mental health issues probably shouldn’t smoke! Even with psychedelic research being done, it usually only worsens existing health conditions. However, mentally healthy people don’t see those illnesses arise from marijuana

[@AnnaMaria-ve5pq]

Her smoking weed had nothing to do with it. I have been smoking since age 14 and I am 60 now, never had any delusional episodes. This women was mental

[@skycloud4802]

I've watched a lot of crime channels here on KZbin and on TV, read books, and I noticed a lot of murderers had history of using weed from a very young age. I think it has profound influence on antisocial behaviour and poor metal health.

[@cupidsfckedupfairy]

@@skycloud4802ou should read more about their childhood upbringing. The adolescent weed smoking is just a bandage for the hurt and pain they had inside. Not justifying their murderous actions, but I do have sympathy for them as children. 😊

[@jenineengland8073]

@@AnnaMaria-ve5pq Every person is different.

[@basically2956]

Thank you for covering this. I’ve commented before about my daughter having Schizoaffective Disorder. It got much worse when she started smoking marijuana. But she realized that it was really bad for her condition and she stopped completely. Her father’s mother had schizophrenia along with other family members. I think those coupled together, along with stress from starting full time work brought it on (age 21) I’m so grateful that you are covering this and educating others. I appreciate all of your work. 🙏 Thank you.

[@KoolT]

Oh yes, weed can make schizophrenic people very sick 😢

[@rudolphsteiner6797]

Total horse crap... people associating weed to these types of events are impressionable refer madness marks

[@rudolphsteiner6797]

@@KoolT no it can't... wake up

[@Menstral]

Why are you bleeding with mentally ill people????

[@ecasey91]

@@rudolphsteiner6797 yes it can! If you have a mental illness that can cause psychosis (schizophrenia/bi polar etc) the weed makes it worse. What usually happens is the person stops taking the antipsychotics and starts self medicating with weed and alcohol or other drugs and it exacerbates the psychosis. Ask any psychiatrist if a person with an illness like that should smoke weed, they’ll tell you NO.

[@mjanny6330]

A cone is a joint? I always thought a cone was the cone shaped piece on the end of a bongstem, or a 1/4 inch socket stuck in a bottlecap and used in a gravity bong. Atleast in NZ it is, don't know about Australia.

[@binahnguyen3006]

I did enjoy this video immensely 😊

[@surfingalien8846]

I actually lived 3 streets from where this took place and my friends grew up with this lady. At the time people talk very highly of this lady and didnt understand how she just snapped and the story that was getting around at the time that she was on "ICE" and they used her weed habit to say she was mentally ill because she didnt use ICE. That is just what I heard.

[@northernlights6459]

Her drug use might have been downplayed.Cannabis users are not normally violent at all.I’m sure there’s more background about this massacre that we are not privy too.

[@claudinejames7731]

Thank you for the good information about what people should do about neighbors who are exhibiting psychotic behaviors.

[@carriefawcett9990]

I have so much appreciation that you covered this case, Dr Grande, I'm especially stoked because i suggested it. Cairns is North in the same state that i live in (Queensland). Not only did you do a great job as usual, you totally exceeded my expectations ( as per usual) and i learned even more. Thanks again for your videos, without them i would never have learned SPSS and passed statistics in my crim degree. I think your vids are much more than entertainment, as you have a talent for imparting information and teaching people in a way that is interesting. I agree totally about the disconnect between law and mental illness, especially in my country. Our justice system would be good, if it wasnt for the sentencing, our lenient sentencing here lets it down. I like how you pointed out how this person knew she was killing her kids, and that fact should not be ignored in the judicial process when deciding on an insanity defence. The alien example was brilliant. The dangers of cannabis should not be ignored, either. You hit the nail on the head every time, such an in-depth analysis!. Thankyou!😊 R.I.P To those poor children.😢🌼🌼🥺

[@petergleeson295]

A cone is 1/3 of a joint. I have lived in Queensland

[@fragrancememoir2350]

Dr Grande always amazes me with his vast knowledge in so many different areas. .. from psychiatry (of course) . ..to law.. to vehicles..to firearms .. he's super smart.. plus he's a writer. .. and funny too ☺️

[@Stoic_Horo]

Could you please analyze Lauren Ann Dickason who allegedly on 16 Sept 2021 killed her 3 children. She had only recently moved to New Zealand From Sth Africa. And previously had a nanny to do childcare for her. It was a big downgrade from the standards she was used to (moving to New Zealand), no nannies or house servants.

[@Dietconsulting]

It's going through the courts here at the moments not probably a good idea until afterwards.

[@LilLou97]

Blaming weed is like blaming a cheeseburger for making you obese, you can stuff your face full of cheeseburgers it's entirely your choice. Its not the product but instead its the user who abuses the product

[@aquaescence4631]

Great now I want a cheeseburger

[@skycloud4802]

A cheeseburger won't give somebody a psychosis episode or be factored into that person killing other people. You are comparing two completely different things.

[@Captain-Palsy]

​@@skycloud4802😂😂😂

[@skycloud4802]

@@Captain-Palsy you know what, I take what I said back. I could really kill for a cheeseburger right now 🍔🤤

[@waddalovah]

I could see Tila Tequila doing this. Can you do a video on her? She’s really gone deep into her own delusions. I don’t know how her kids haven’t been taken away.

[@Cristina_Stef]

In spain we have a case that a nurse killed colleges at a mental break and later on they released her and years after she did it again in a supermarket...

[@Cristina_Stef]

Noelia de mingo, its a sad story too... her mom had to take care of her and she was too old to handle a mental ill person

[@mustertherohirrim7315]

Smoking 20 packed spliffs a day. She was experiencing financial problems....😮

[@valeriemarott1923]

I was wondering the same...how did she afford all that pot?

[@TimJBenham]

A cone is just a bowl and need not amount to much.

[@MrRizon83]

When you’re on welfare in Australia you get $200 per fortnight per child plus $450 a fortnight for herself that’s $1850 per fortnight from the government.

[@prettyvroomvroomcar]

Wow I remember this case its a little too close to home, very sad, Thank you for covering this case

[@Marinaxp1]

The medics said she was not under the influence of drugs at the time of the killings .For all we know if she didn't abruptly stop her self medicating with cannabis , she would not have lost it completely, and those children would still be alive.

[@twocents7495]

Did you hear the part where she previously threatened to kill one with an axe?

[@skycloud4802]

THC damages the brain over the course of years, and it also stays in the system a long time. She has been suffering for a long time. Abusing her body with cannabis contributed to that.

[@mzliberty7647]

i remember the day this happened.. all of Australia was shocked by this terrible tragedy. the Metal Health System here in Oz is in overload crisis.. [under staffed] often ppl waiting a year or more before a competent therapist is available for Therapy to even start. also .. the urgent 'crisis event' clients are also prioritised. it is all, very complex . thank you Dr Grande for bringing this to the fore with tact and an appropriate somber demeanor. just so sad and pointless, the loss of these 8 beautiful children...

[@angelinparadise7282]

I think it's highly unlikely that someone who is suffering from a mental collapse such as psychosis or has a mental problem like schizophrenia seek any help. It would require some self awareness and contact with reality, which sadly is precisely what they miss as time goes by. Even people with other mental issues such as depression may never seek help and this is a mental state that doesnt disconnect you with the reality to the same extend schizophrenia or psychosis does. It's the saddest thing really, your mind turn to to such an extend you can even realize you have a problem - you are "the chosen one" and the rest of the world Is doomed and doesnt know it. Its asking someone who isnt int heir right mind to be rational and responsible imo

[@elliebellie7816]

I don't know that a mental health evaluation would have helped this poor woman and her children. There was a similar case here in the Houston, TX area about fifteen years ago where a psychotic mother (Andrea Yates) drowned her five children in a bathtub and she was under care for several mental health conditions. Her husband had been told by her doctors she could not be left alone with the children for even a second but one day he casually strolled off to work and she killed them all. Currently living out her life in a Texas State Mental Health facility.

[@SeismicSize]

Wait, you said the woman STOPPED using cannabis before the murders as a cleansing! Seems to me the weed kept the kids alive as long as she was smokin... keep up with yourself... Doctor

[@AnnabelleAstoria]

I live in Brisbane Australia. You pronounced in just the way we do here Dr Grande. 😊

[@vladimirputindreadlockrast812]

Compare to the case of Kobili Traoré, who pushed his elderly Jewish neighbor Sarah Halimi off of a balcony in Paris in 2017. He was acquitted on the grounds of being delirious from cannabis intoxication. I mentioned that Halimi was Jewish because as Traoré was assaulting her in her apartment--and while the police were slow to respond, or even enter her apartment to save her--Traoré was shouting antisemitic epithets. The decision was made upon evidence that Traoré "was too high on marijuana to be criminally responsible for his actions." The appeals court sided with the defense's claims that as a heavy marijuana smoker, Traoré was not in his right frame of mind when he allegedly killed Halimi.

[@sheilagravely5621]

So...... did he get off or go to jail???

[@vladimirputindreadlockrast812]

@@sheilagravely5621 Kobili Traoré has been in a psychiatrict facility for "treatment".

[@carolinacrane1]

A cone is not a large joint, it's smoking from a bong. I don't know what you call it, but it's the smoking implement with the water in.

[@Ffootagefetish]

No they are pre-rolled cone shaped joint papers that are rolled by packing them with weed, look it up

[@azkid883]

A cone is a bong? How so ?

[@christiangasior4244]

I thought cones were just a kind of rolling paper that is easier to roll cause you funnel it in the cone.

[@carolinacrane1]

@@azkid883 Er, what are you talking about? I didn't say a cone is a bong. To 'have a cone' means to smoke a bong. It certainly isn't 'a large joint'.

[@carolinacrane1]

@@christiangasior4244 I don't know why it's called a cone, but it does not refer to a joint. Unless somewhere else, maybe outside Australia it could refer to a joint. A cone is always referred to in relation to a bong in my experience.

[@Lenticloudular]

Spot on, Doc Grande. Agree with your analysis. Would agree that cannabis, even a little, can be a trigger for those people more prone to developing schizophrenia or inducing a schizophrenic episode in a known sufferer. Knew a young man who smoked cannabis occasionally, and he kept his schizophrenic illness to himself (and the authorities). He went to get help during an episode and was turned away from the unit as they were full, he then killed himself. We, my friends, were all very shocked and sad.

[@aeropsia]

As soon as I heard "she smoked 20 joints a day from the time she was in the 9th grade" I was like oh no, schizophrenia. Its worth pointing out that at least from what I have read, it's often the early use of cannabis that raises the likelihood of a person developing schizophrenia. Obviously, like you said, it's a complex illness and there isn't any one thing that causes it, but abstaining until adulthood and not smoking a pack of joints a day is probably a good idea. I appreciate you not fear mongering and pointing out that the majority of cannabis users do not develop schizophrenia. This kind of thing is why drugs should be legalized so that we have a better chance of keeping them away from children.

[@erinthesystem9608]

Thank you for discussing the link between cannabis use and schizophrenia. I hope we continue to learn more about this.

[@keirah_ghg]

FYI "cones" in Australia is definitely NOT equivalent to a " large joint" rather.. It would take about 4/5 cones to equal a joint. A cone is basically one hit from a bong, 20 sounds like alot,but considering it is pretty standard for people in Australia to mix weed and tobacco 1/1 when smoking weed in any form... 20 cones for the entire day isn't an incredible amount 20 cones would be more like 4/5 joints, and roughly half of each joint is tobacco so... It's not a huge amount for sure 😉

[@SE-hh4vx]

Some people smoke pure ,also some weed is added with some chemicals staff so it weights more.Some people buy sintetic weed since it's cheaper...

[@ChristelVinot]

whoa... I've been smokin weed for like 15 years and have never heard the term "cone"

[@BriEMcN]

Mothers who kill their own children during a psychotic episode due to ppp or schizophrenia or whatever else is always the absolute most heartbreaking to me. In my opinion it's no different than accidentally killing your kids due to an accident caused by a physical illness- like fainting while cooking and causing a fire that kills your family or having a seizure while driving and crashing the car, etc. But in the cases where it's from a psychotic break, the world considers you a monster and baby killer and don't understand or believe that you love your children and were not in control of yourself and you have to live with the worst guilt a human can go through while grieving the loss of your children. I can't imagine anything worse, that would be the literal definition of hell imo. Everyone says they would never do this to their children if they had a psychotic episode, but if you've never dealt with psychosis then you have no real idea if you'd be capable of that or not. I wish there was more understanding and support for mothers with severe mental illnesses bc then maybe things like this could be prevented.

[@ZYX84]

❤ Hello. I’d like to have seen a heart by your comment from the good Dr. A ❤ and a thank you heart ❤️ for your well thought out comment and analysis of his analysis.. He’s a busy guy.. I appreciate your thoughts. Touché ❤

[@bookofthewarsofthelord9273]

No this is very different. Smoking weed has risk especially in the amount she was comsuming for so long (also imagine the amount of money she wasted on instead of caring for her kids). If shes normal now or in the future it would indicate that marujuana use was the contributing factor here. In a nutshell we dont excuse people when they decided to drive after hevy drinking (especilly if they kill someone). Likewise the choice to not seek help and to keep on with the drug use was also a choice which makes her morally culpable.

[@mzliberty7647]

yes, good comment.

[@mzliberty7647]

@@bookofthewarsofthelord9273 .. just an fyi a cone of weed = about a quarter of a small joint ... here in the land of Oz.. wink..

[@EmbalmerEmi]

@@bookofthewarsofthelord9273 She had stopped smoking completely months before this incident.

[@zackadam2598]

Dr. Grande; love your videos. Just realized you've never done a video on James Oliver Huberty... terrible tragedy. Hope to see one soon!

[@ZASurvivor]

The answer is, she killed her 8 children because she had eight of them.

[@lisa-pz2px]

Lmao facts, and not fun the same father e either, imagine what a headache

[@brainchutney8576]

Cones are not large joints. Here in Aus cones refers to the conepiece of a bong, which is packed with cannabis.

[@michellenaron827]

Au contrair, ma frere. Just maybe, people with schizophrenia may treating their own psychosis with Marijuana. In this particular case, the THC stopped working after many year's of use...just as many prescribed anti-phsycotic medications stop working as the disease progresses. Still a lot we don't know. More funding for mental health and a society that accepts and understands the challenges of a diagnosis

[@E.C.Animation]

Yeah. Plus he said she stopped using a month before this happened. So she stopped all self medicating and then started having issues. Not sure how that's the weeds doing then.

[@LAJiini]

I will say that smoking weed is not for ppl with mental problems. It affects them negatively.

[@stephaniehowe0973]

How on earth could I have not heard of this insane tragedy.

[@nowayhosay50]

Because it wouldn't fit the narrative.

[@stephaniehowe0973]

What narrative is that? That she had uncared for mental health? That stopping that large amount of Marijuana isn't always good for someone?

[@cats.addict6457]

Excellent analysis

[@irenegriffin3050]

I had heard about the studies showing that cannabis use during the teenage years may causes issues when it comes to synaptic pruning, possibly leading to schizophrenia. But I know several people who were heavy users and never had mental health issues, so yeah, there's got to be something else going on as well. But it is a fascinating thing for me. It's crazy how complex the brain is and I wonder if humans will ever fully know how it works and how to prevent or fix brain illnesses. 😞

[@skycloud4802]

Users that never have mental health issues, or _yet_ to have them? Kind of like how some tobacco smokers can even reach into late 80's without dying of lung cancer before then. It of course doesn't mean damage hasn't been done before that point. Cannabis is like that too I think. Just because outliers don't seem to have obviously problems from the outside, doesn't mean the mental health damage isn't being slowly building up underneath.

[@irenegriffin3050]

@@skycloud4802 oh, 100% agree! I was just referring to the studies discussing the potential for schizophrenia due to cannabis use. That it can somehow cause problems during the time that the brain gets rid of extra synapses. Also where the potential for wiring getting "crossed" which can explain delusions, etc. I'm not a doctor so I only have a very small understanding of it but I've always been fascinated about how the brain works. But yeah, cannabis use (well, specifically THC) can affect people in other ways especially if used during critical periods where the brain is developing (such as during adolescence). But still, some people don't seem to get affected so there's got to be other factors at play as well. You mention tobacco, that was my dad's situation. He smoked since he was 17 and other than a low grade skin cancer (from baking in the sun all his life) he never had any other cancer! He did have smoking related health issues though so he didn't escape that. But just like with how the brain is so unpredictable, cancer as well. And people who never smoked a day in their life, or who never touched a drug, develop lung cancer or some kind of mental illness. I hope that one day scientists will understand what is happening!

[@tammyventer5488]

I am glad that you pointed out that cannabis has been linked to onset of schizophrenia. My mother is a psychiatrist & has had patients, particularly teenage boys who have had drug induced schizophrenia. In her experience, cannabis is the highest cause of schizophrenia than other drugs that she has seen in patients. She does not agree then that cannabis is a harmless drug due to her experience of it causing schizophrenia in patients that she is seeing.

[@elizagaskell7957]

I was in Cairns when this event happened. I was told Raina Thaiday was on ice and she had a psychotic episode. Thankfully one of her sons was away and sleeping over at a friend/family place. it was he who discovered what happened to his siblings when he came home the next day. Poor kid.