What is the opposite of narcissism?

[@robertaturk]

This is spot on. Describes me to a T. Confused. Invisible. Hiding. Like a mouse living near it’s hole ready to scurry back. The Narcissist prayed on me like a cat - whenever he was bored or needed a way to regulate his feelings. One day I realized that “I mattered to God. That I was valuable to him.” If God values me then I can matter to myself and God and I no longer need other people to do that for me. I count.

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m so glad that you found the video helpful and I wish you all the best.

[@booksie1]

Thank you for sharing that. I am trying to work from that premise as well. I matter to God and so I matter too

[@calfaye]

when i get the courage to stand up for myself or prioritize my mental wellness (validating my own feelings, distancing from certain friends) i get an intense fear that i'm the narcissist and that any instance of me reasoning why someone doesn't complement my life is a display of narcissism. as im "healing" i feel hesitant recreating a life with new friends who don't trigger me or my insecurities, because i worry that's being too egotistical or insecure. im recovering from many BPD traits, so i tread lightly when it comes to getting my needs met bc i fear falling into the other extreme (NPD). but this echoism stuff resonates, and your advice is helpful! thank you Dr. Fox

[@Juliebird03]

I feel the same way.

[@aaafamilylegobuilders8847]

Doc with your permission I will share my experience hopefully will be helpful, I just got out of very toxic relationship with the Narcisitic and BPD traits. IT was a very long and panful path to get to this point and hopefully me describing what helped me will help some other readers some might work better for some: 1. Right away get proffesional support to help as there is learning curve. 2. Narcisist, BPD, and similar personality traits I call it either as a flu of emotional/congnitive growth flu (we can be healthy yeaayy) 3. Most of the above psychological flues are the result of a child hood travma that lead me for instance to a specific way of leaving and adopting in this world. (this was learned which means it can be unlearned with better ways) 4. Meditation especially on Forveness (got to get to the point of accepting yourself and your life) 5. when we know that Iron is hot we don't touch it so when we know what is hurting us behavior or thought process wise we need to unplug that just like we would with an iron but will need help of a proffessional 6. deal with the trauma (gelshtat therapy) get to the acceptance point no reason to feel guilty and those things are not happening now and if anyone in your life is still doing it to you (like it was with my wife or how it is with my mom) keep the communication to the minimum others except family members and if they are unmanageable its up to you but anyone that is toxic to you you have the right to deal the same way as you would with spoiled food or dirty cloth (hope none of you likes to eat spoiled food or putting dirty cloth on for days in the row) our mental body deserves the same and our emotional deserves to have good healthy food and clean beautifull cloth 7.Assertiveness 8. Cognitive therapy the idea is to grow that scared lost child with in us I call myslef reversed narcisist with in us that just wants a hug, being accepted and noticed. we want nurturing love and we deserve it and we need to learn to give it in the healthy way so we can accept it and experience it. Lead by example I own my traits I am a Narcisist but I became a healthy one, 9. I love my inner child and I hate that the way society works its harder and harder to allow our selves to leave that amazing beautifull childish happiness without all the damn baggage that we end up accumulating over the course of life 10. Gratitude 11. One of the practices so far that also helped was what would I reccomend to my friend, brother or a child if they would end up in my shoes, this way is really hard to yourself if you want answers and tired of where you are as I am 12. it took me 4 years of pain, sufferring and lots of money and hours on therapy and yes they helped but all the work was done by me and my motivation and drive no one else will leave your life for you and I am looking forward listening to the book that the doctor is reffering to. There is a Russian book that I listened to which I find it amazing, I am going to make sure if its not in the process yet to get that book translated into English We are alive smile we have dealt with many obstacles in our lives and got so far and this one is no different from any other just a bit well it is what it is Just do It or life will pass and then it will be to late.

[@christi_nya]

Same

[@daridari755]

Relate to this a lot

[@jennifermaxine2453]

You're being gaslit & your friends are self serving....most people with Bpd & c ptsd have the same issues..mind the company you keep. Most times bad people project their insecurities...& use others as a mirror. Then, they make us feel insecure because they are insecure & need a social network

[@ryangrundy4290]

I remember there was this guy from California who talked a lot about echoism. I forgot the channel when I got a new phone, but I remember he talked a lot about it. Then I studied the origins of the words. The guy (Narcissus) fell in love with his reflection in the water and eventually ended up drowning. Echo was the name of his girlfriend who he didn’t care about.

[@mrfake675]

That's wild

[@andreabiro2357]

Love, how we, humans explain our being - back then with stories, and nowadays with relfekcting on self. :)

[@bethlanglois9361]

Oh wow!!

[@booksie1]

Thks

[@laurzee]

This is so insightful. I see this Echoism in myself. I find your videos helping me understand my emotions and behaviors better! Thank you!

[@nicoleduncan6944]

You mention echoism in romantic relationships, but I see this concept in relationships with family members, friends, and coworkers too. Thanks for sharing, your knowledge is so appreciated

[@DrDanielFox]

Very true

[@mimimiller763]

​@@DrDanielFox yes I see this in all my relationships

[@mcparks1968]

Let me begin by saying, Wow. Then, let me follow up with, No, really... WOW. I'm in a relationship with a Vulnerable Narcissist. And I DO have some BPD tendencies, but my neurologist, psychiatrist, and psychologist have all expressed some doubt about me having full blown BPD. As I listened to this, it really connected some dots, and I will definitely be bringing up the idea of this being a component of my issues with my therapist. Thank you for doing the research, and putting forth something succinct that can touch our lives.

[@johnjohnson1681]

DR FOX IVE MISSED U BUDDY lets see some fresh content i always watch every video you put out man i truly cant thank you enough for helping me manage my BPD through your videos thank you again and god bless

[@godless_rain22]

Thank you for being humble enough to learn from your viewers as well. My therapist and I learn from each other and she’s the first to recognize and diagnose my BPD. I will be starting your workbook this week with them. I’m very grateful for your work, Dr. Fox. Again, thank you.

[@TerryGuzmanMartinez]

I recognize myself in this case for almost all of my life. Nowadays I appreciate more myself and I'm in the first place, but it took a lot of time and pain to get aware of it.

[@deirdrek3412]

Thank you. This video helped me to better understand my behavior in my marriage. My ex never valued me. I was always told things were my fault and my thoughts and opinions were invalid. Now I understand how my dysfunctional childhood family relationships made this awful dynamic so tolerable.

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m glad it was helpful. Be well.

[@joedaley6031]

"self blame is just another way to suppress your needs" - THIS IS A VERY HELPFUL INSIGHT! Thank you Dr F

[@LaGrossePaulik]

I had no idea it has a name! Thank you, it's very informative as usual 👏💡 I have BPD and my mother has narcissistic traits, she projected and still does a lot on me and I can make a link with my education and my lack of consistency, sense of identity. It's extremely hard for me to put boundaries with my mother because of the abandonment/rejection triggers, I'm trying but it's not enough.

[@jackiegrice714]

Me before watching this video: “Wow this sounds interesting but I don’t think this will describe me at all.” Me halfway through this video: ………………..”Wow that’s so me.” Thanks for another insightful vIdeo Dr. Fox.

[@James-ze9yn]

Thanks so much for your videos!!! Helps me a lot with my life.

[@ghosthuntereli2189]

I was diagnosed w borderline disorder in my early 20s. Im 37 n have worked on myself alot...and i struggle w it. Always feel it would be so much easier to keep myself isolated because narcs seem to be drawn to me and when i do meet someone im totally into...i literally go completely thoughtless. I feel im not good enough, no self wolth, i hate compliments..hate them, cant stand gifts frome men or the attention from them..whats weirder is i dont mind a guy saying hey can i spend time w u or touch you...but as soon as they say they care or supposedly love me..i freak out..i will literally tell them no they dont n stop saying that or thos has to stop. I try to tell myself..listen erica dont hurt their feelings u care for him..but i cant because at the same exact time im hearing in my head..ur not hurting his feelings he isnt telling the truth he is only using u because he is too lazy or scared to go after a prettier girl. Im always...always thinking i am nothing, ugly, too fat, not good enough. when it comes to men but i also want to help the guy i like so i let myself stay in this unhealthy relationship even if i want better for him too. Ive told him id stay for him but not in an actual relationship so i wont resent him when he begins to speak to another woman.. until he can find someone better...if im alone..if i stick to myself i have this thot in my head that i can do anything on my own. I am strong, i am a single mother and can get thru anything. Is this a form of echoism?

[@MrMerkelmatz]

Thanks for your videos! I can see this in my behaviour quite strong. Have a BPD diagnosis as well. Most of the time, it´s very difficult to hang with people for me because it is exhausting to contain my own wishes and thoughts and always be aware for the others. I hope I can handle that in future. Feels like a very strong and unconscious behaviour.

[@ontoyoualways9183]

Oh yeh!! It was drilled into my head to work myself to death. Do for others without thinking twice nor ever expecting anything in return. My needs were not adressed! But I was expected to meet everyone else's. If I question any of this, i am told I am "crazy and need help". As an older adult, I avoid any friendships/socialization. I am worn out, isolated and ready to die.

[@cindyc]

🙏🤗

[@valentinadiaz709]

I am really sorry that you didnt have your needs met Ontoyou. I feel that perhaps sometimes there are people in our lives that no matter how connected we are with are just not helpful for our growth and happiness. You are worthy. But I too have a baseline of wanting to dissapear. I sincerely hope you are able to stop judging yourself by another's measuring stick. I hope you find the things that bring you joy. that you nurture those above all else and are able to move forth sending you love xoxooxox

[@DM-rl1ic]

Omg I feel the same!!!!

[@ericlarousse1149]

Were you raised Protestant?

[@valentinadiaz709]

Thanks for this Dr Fox. I'd become aware that I can be quite passive in relationships and realized that i find it hard to express my needs. Not only on a psycho emotional level but practically as well. Like if youre not taught a certain language it is hard to speak it even though you are aware of the way not being able to speak it is affecting you and your relationships. For this reason I believe I have ended up with men who lean more toward the narcissistic end of the personality spectrum. Knowing this now makes me very apprehensive and fearful when I meet men and it's hard for me to gauge their narcissistic barometer. My needs were never really met as a youngster so i dont expect anyone to ever meet them now as an adult but I'm working on becoming more assertive at the very least for now in all my relationships.

[@James-ck4bg]

04:41 Can (hopefully?) confirm. I am diagnosed with PD-TS and scored the highest on bpd (unstable self image included) and avoidant personality disorder. Also scored a point on paranoid personality disorder. Basically: I love to give in abundantly, because I hate the way someone else's disappointment makes me see myself. I see giving as a way of gettting a dose of self validation, which makes me feel egocentric, deceitful and pathetic in return. It's basically acting like a nice guy, but since I don't care too much about what it means to the other person, I can feel bad about it. Like an impostor should. I want to see them smile, only because I made them smile. Not for how that smile makes them have a good day, but how my life will have some meaning for it. The crux is that there's actually a lot of resentment stuck in me, because I continously feel like I'm not good enough and keep draining myself emotionally. People confuse the remaining "selflessness" with empathy all the time though. They think it's cute and genuine, because they don't know it's stemming from a rather self absorbed, but emotionally exhausted, place. The emotional exhaustion kills the empathy and therefore the sincerity. I do have empathy though. I can give for the sake of making someone happy and helping them out, it goes wrong when I'm stressed (emotionally drained) though, which unfortunately is at many times. To me it feels a bit like being Dobby from Harry Potter. Difference is that the curse of slavery is kept alive by lack of healthy narcissism. Anyways, great video as always Dr. Fox. I keep learning from your channel, which is awesome. I'm not sure about whether I truly got the meaning of echoism right like this though, but if not it's because I'm a little tired in the evening. 😅🤭 The video was super clear though.

[@ivyleanne8213]

My BPD is so much more complicated than any of these I've heard from this clinician, or so many others. When it comes to echoing (not sure if that's what it is)... but I've always felt I wasn't heard(wrote a note to my dad at 6 that if I broke my leg and screamed that I knew he would not even hear me. Even if he did, I knew he wouldn't come or care). Other things convinced me as well as my own thoughts, that what I needed, my struggles/feelings/thoughts.. well...I guess I "knew" that I didn't matter as a person. At least not as much as anyone else.

[@musicbrazilian7065]

You are an effective communicator I love your videos, therapy is the best thing that has have ever happened to me, I realized I used to have poor boundaries which attracted abusers. It is also healthier to notice my own unhealthy narcissism. Thank you.

[@SouthRicardo]

Echoism is new to me. I don't see how an empath can be the opposite to a narcissist. Someone who is very different to a narcissist, can also not have a lot of empathy either. Good video.

[@djones301]

Wow I love you for making this video. My husband always says I'm the narcissist, because I do have BPD and have some narcissistic trates. However, I dont do things for the reason he does. I don't have a need to put myself first always and I don't think I'm better then anyone. This video hits home cause I was just telling him the other day, I am an echo dear, what ever you put into me, I reflect back to you. I usually give him his way unless it's very important but then I not only feel bad but he demonizes me as well for holding any boundaries at all. He is permitted to demand anything and disrespect everyone and everything, while what I say have little or no value at all and is almost always dismissed no matter who it means to me, or how important I feel it is. Makes me so sad and angry too, but it don't ever really matter, and so I have grown to hate him to a large extent, which makes me feel terrible because I don't want to hate anyone really and I don't ask for my way much, anyways thanks the video made me feel a little less alone and invalid in this world.

[@religiohominilupus5259]

Thanks for your educational videos, Dr. F.!

[@SeanRhoadesChristopher]

It reminds me of someone who suppresses anger, which can enrage as health problems or can eventually explode as an earthquake or volcano.

[@brettweary8491]

That’s Me Daniel Absolutely

[@AkiWasHere]

Thank you for tqking time to make videos i have NpD

[@DrDanielFox]

You are so welcome!

[@thegraceofgodistheanswerto8587]

This video is so helpful. More than I can express.

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad it was helpful!

[@leeboriack8054]

This looks information is life changing!

[@McD-j5r]

Great! We need more like that!

[@heyguidance]

I have this Dr. Fox! I love that plate :’)

[@shantanu.t]

Hehe. Yeah, that’s a great plate indeed!

[@Mara_143]

Literally Me🧚🏽‍♀️🤦🏽‍♀️

[@lifeontheedge2444]

Again you are outlining my past relationships.

[@tiameyer680]

Wow, what a great explanation. I have so much resentment and it's hard to manage.

[@msgoodbrown]

Omgosh...i become so obsessive regarding metamorphosing myself into my partner. I learn their culture, there language and study everything that have to do w/ the person, while they do little to nothing to learn about me. It’s so weird. And sad honestly. I give up so much of myself hoping to feel wanted. But it’s never enough. I’m never satisfied and eventually grow resentful. And blow up...then the cycle continues

[@roarblast7332]

What is the distinction between echoism and codependency?

[@bornwithoutconsentobviously]

Oh yes, that's an excellent question. I hope he will elaborate on that.

[@roarblast7332]

I think I have a fair idea what the distinction is. Just not entirely sure. Seems to me that codependency is much more a loss of identity than echoism. I feel like I have that echoism a little bit, but I don’t relate as much to codepency. Like the obsessive need to be one with their partner. I think. Again not totally sure. But I think it’s something like that.

[@gilbertpinfold]

@@roarblast7332 Codependency isn't a need to merge with a partner, it's an adaptive style that kids learn in a dysfunctional household when parents suffer from addiction or other issues.

[@roarblast7332]

@@gilbertpinfold from my understanding, enmeshment one of the traits of codependency? Which is an actual intertwining of identities? Meaning, your preferences become the same as your partner?

[@gilbertpinfold]

@@roarblast7332 No, I haven't heard that. People can be over invested in a partner in codependency due to financial dependence, such as a mother with 3 pre school age children and an alcoholic partner. That wouldn't imply enmeshment. Generally Codependency implies that one partner begins to overfunction, because the other underfunctions as their addiction progresses.

[@tanterouge]

How weird. I have been pondering exactly these things in my current relationship issues. I put it int the same wording, talking about needs AND desires. Because often, people will only tend to the needs - or at at least what they THINK you need. Then I wrote a poem called Living life from the passenger seat ... It's funny getting the validation of my own thoughts expressed here afterwards, rather than me listening to you first.

[@yuririaharris1578]

Thank you very much.

[@DrDanielFox]

You’re welcome

[@naturelover-f6h]

This is me to a T. I've never heard of echosim though. My NPD partner I feel has groomed me in a way to behave this way. it keeps his demons at bay. I woke up one day and said enough is enough, started putting boundaries in place and going to CODA meetings. The Narc didn't like that one bit and then started controlling, tracking me, etc. it was horrible.

[@joedaley6031]

this is something I need to work on

[@ivyleanne8213]

After about 3 weeks there, I finally realized I wasn't going anywhere, so why not try to start somewhere. So I told my psychiatrist EVERYTHING I've experienced. Wether it meant I would never be released, it was time I gave the Dr and myself a chance by opening up and being honest. I shared my hallucinations from childhood though... I shared killing small animals when I was a kid. I shared how my family was Pentecostal and Southern Baptist and convinced me when I was 7 and had written my mom a letter that I was scared. Scared of the man I can't see but is always behind me. And whichever way I turn, he moves so I can't see him. I told them he never touches me...just kinda hangs out around and above me...but he won't leave. And he doesn't speak. But I can feel it...and it feels like he something bad to happen. They all told me I needed to pray more... demons can move in if you don't have enough Jesus. So I prayed...and faked speaking in tonguea...legitimately hallucinated Jesus' hands praying with me. Those things seemed to make my mother happy another church considered the demons gone....but it was all still there...that and worse. But I learned either they were right and I was not good enough for God and/or you just don't talk about those kinds of things. So I didn't. I told the Dr how I don't really know what love is...especially not romantic. That I care for people. I dhavr often fantasized about murder, but I didn't think it same to think of it as to do it. I would never hurt someone else..even if they deserved it, because who am I to decide who should live or die? I am no one to cast judgement or fate because I am literally no one.

[@A.JayWeber]

Building up resentment is so true. I got burned out on always pushing healthy narcissism at my partners critical second guessing. So I just started echoing. Literally making the statement "I don't have the energy anymore to keep standing up for myself and your critical worry all the time when it comes to basic low stakes decision making" They weren't mean I just got exhausted. I also grew up in the church where there is allot of this. "you to what you you feel called to...but don't pull away from the tribe." kind of constant double speak.

[@shantanu.t]

Yup, I likely had that… mine gradually reduced over the years with tough life experiences + reading lots of motivational and self-help books. I’ve read (listened to) between 50-100 books since the pandemic started… reading has changed my life in a way I could not have imagined before. I feel incredible empowered now. Still kind, but super authentic. Worthy resources to explore: “Sounds true” (interviews/ YT) “Bill Eddy” (his books are worth Gold) “Judith Orloff” (on Empath stuff) “Judith Eger” (On healing) For more recommendations… just befriend Oprah Winfrey’s books and supersoulsunday interviews.

[@musicandglamour9184]

I relate to this so much, raised with a narcissistic father who told me if I didn’t live exactly like Jesus, then I was the devil. I grew up believing all of my feelings were wrong. I no longer have a relationship with my father as it it is my choice to do so as I was working on some inner strengths and meditations and just really establishing my BPD toolbox. I had to really learn to let that relationship go and accept that it was OK to not be OK. Now my father is trying to take my children from me and I feel like I don’t have much time left I’ve already been fighting a year and a half by myself and I don’t know how much more I have in me. Any advice helps….

[@midnightcat6116]

This was super insightful. Thank you 🙏

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Vinvulpis]

Straight up... This is an issue I've had with people I've let become close friends of mine (and one of them as a significant other for a time). I'm way too passive and always just go along with whatever, and very often do things I don't actually want to do because arguments are prone to start over it if I don't wanna do x, y or z. I've been coming to realize a lot of my issues over the last year in particular in this regard and am pretty much looking to stop letting other people dictate my time. It sucks, because I care about people, and do often feel like my own needs aren't important and feel selfish if I don't do what other people want. I personally dealt with an abusive mother and step father who I'm convinced are both narcissists, my step father in particular taking pleasure in being a bully over a father figure (Until I stood up to him later on). But it's left me disjointed from all of my family, including my real father because my mother tore me away from everyone in her own twisted self serving world view. I think in some weird way, this has translated into the kinds of friends I keep, or rather, how I let my friends overstep my boundaries, more so because I don't say anything most of the time. But in a few cases, I've had arguments over it, and I'm prone to feeling guilty. I know this might seem a bit dramatic to say, and it don't entirely fit the context. I feel like there's the Sword of Damocles over my head, the guilt, ready to drop as soon as I do something "selfish." I'd been convincing myself to be happy and feel fortunate to have what I have (and still am in many cases) but there are other areas that I'm simply not when it comes to my interactions with some of my friends (with narcissistic traits) that are more controlling. I think it also comes from a fear of loosing friends. Like the sword will drop as soon as I mess up and I might be left with nothing. I'm just kinda at the point where I can't let that guilt have any power over me anymore. I still wanna be there for people, but lines need to be drawn. I really do feel like this echoistic trait was beat into me as a kid and in my 30s now, and finally realizing it. Been watching a few of your vids because by random chance I ran into the subject on youtube, at a time I'm questioning myself and the friendships I maintain. Kinda cosmic in a way. But it's given me a lot of insight. Sorry for the TL; DR. This video in particular hit me in a very significant way though. Thank you.

[@crystenahemingway8656]

Ahhhhhhh wow ⚡️⚡️⚡️ perfect timing in my understanding and healing

[@DrDanielFox]

I’m so glad that it was helpful.

[@kagamer21]

Thank you Dr. Fox, I hope you are having a good holiday season so far :^)

[@DrDanielFox]

Thanks, I am. I hope the same for you as well.

[@ivyleanne8213]

Things happened slowly but fast. The more I tried to tell myself there's no way they'll go through with this, my patience/fear became paralyzing procrastination. I'm not really sure what I could have done but what I untimately did was overdose on multiple medications I'm my sister's yard while they were sleeping. Hoping not to wake them, with my body gone in the morning. I woke up to my family surrounding me(red flag right there) and immediately recognized the lady with the clipboard as a me tal health professional. I tried to play it off. That I was drunk and probably took to many or not the right ones. No way I overdosed I'm sure I spilled a bunch in my drunken stupor.. but then saw the officer waiting just outside the curtain. They counted. Every single one they found. My little sister was worried about me walking the two blocks home from the bat so had set an alarm to check on me...when her husband saw me unconscious in the yard, covered in puke and foam... as well as feces and urine. The ambulance started CPR and said I immediately expelled even more stomach contents. My sister hadn't thought CPR was an option. They thought that body they found was dead. So I suck at taking my own life as well... this was my 3rd attempt...though first anyone knew of. I was sectioned and went to a PETC. At first, I didn't want to participate. I didn't like the broad topic AA style "therapy sessions" they had. So I would bring up childhood sexual trauma and other , I felt as I took inventory of the other patients atound the table, very important and very relevant topics. We were always shut down. I guess that mail in training certificate doesn't really prepare a lot of group counselors (or whatever) for real life shit.

[@darkskill72]

Damn, that's all I can say. Nail meet hammer. OMG this is like the most accurate version of me and I didn't even know that it existed until now. This is something that I will have to read up on.

[@ivyleanne8213]

Part 2 of comment: So what if I was sad, or scared, or even happy? I felt it was most important to tend to those around me, even strangers....and I became so highly empathetic and "motherly" towards others. I really have felt I have made some real difference for some. I can't tell you the random strangers in grocery stores, passing pedestrians, or casual coworkers and things of that sort that saw whatever it was "radiating" from me, and felt they could offload, share, or find someone that made them feel safe to be heard (Even it being me, usually a complete stranger). It used to seem odd for people to share those things with me. But soon I felt I could try and provide anyone who trusted themselves with me, what I felt I never had. Someone who would listen. Provide comfort, support... never false hope... but always threw in truths about my past that would let them know their trust was not wasted. I did care. I do. And would always let them know that I didn't have real insight or advice on their specific struggle, that I did know that I wished I had been able to share like they had...and to at least be free to express myself and feelings...and maybe someone would have heard and let me know that there is help out there...and even people who care. At 17 I got pregnant. Quite unexpectedly. I was very promiscuous and not safe since 14 (well...the voluntary part) and was told repeated infection and scarring would probably make fertility near impossible. But I never thought wanted children. Never thought I would have those instincts...and definitely didn't want to bring a life into this world to most likely (in my kind) experience anything like had. But I was over four months and...not that I was angry about becoming a mom...but more fearful, even more negative thoughts about myself or my capabilities. Dread my child would die AT ANY MOMENT. Or worse, even my best attempts to keep them safe would fail. How would I live with that?? Not about me...but having this life I'm responsible for, and failing him. I was SUPER overprotective, constantly fearful, and very clingy. I made my whole life about protecting, loving, and raising a child who felt protected, safe, tended to, and happy. He slept on my chest until over a year old. I was afraid he would die in his sleep. But on my cheat, I could feel his heartbeat abd feel his breath. He didn't walk until 15 months, speak more than 3 words until about 5th birthday. I think there were some genuine developmental delays. But his therapists told me when he started speaking full sentences in one day, that their hunch was the majority of his delays were really just a lack of motivation. Why was if your mother never puts you down. Why speak when your needs, wants, and a lot of things you didn't know you wanted were premeditated for you? Things got bette. But I didn't loosen my grip. He slept with me most nights until 10yo (his younger brother until about 8yo). You get the picture. Then, after my last divorce and third child, I decided to try to loosen my grip. Let them spend the whole summer with respective dads and grandparents... not make follow all of my overbearing restrictions. In my mind, I needed to start working on my trust issues with the world. Let these people who love my kids be there too. Push myself to trust SOME people. I graduated college and was working in the medical field. And I started seeing that I was a person too. I was 25 at this point and I don't think I ever shared with anyone, anytjme...what my feelings were. No one can remember me crying or being angry..really...no emotions, since I was a kid. They all said I was either happy (smiling) all of the time.. or just staring into nothing with a blank nowhere look on my face. I never believed I should bother anyone with "me". They were always more important. I mean.. I thought about suicide every day. But thought that's just how things are...and I had made it this far. Who know if they could, so I would never burden anyone with my feelings (If I even knew what they were). But when I was divorced the third time, was allowing other people I thought I should trust help raise and love my kids, I started trying to enjoy my weekends. Find myself a little bit. Find out who I could be if I'm not just a mom, or wife...or nothing of consequence like I felt inside. I never neglected my kids, or financial responsibilities. There as no drug addiction or severe alcoholism. Though I will say during my weekends and such without the kids I see now my alcohol intake was very dangerous..to my body and my safety out in public). I had my professional job, but started working for Gold Cup and Penthouse clubs every other weekend. Ended up there with a friend who had no idea I had never been to. Place like that. I was incited to dance on stage (clothed) and I found myself watching myself in the mirror. Foe the first time, not disgusted or judging what I saw...not even concerned with what any man was thinking. I found real confidence outside of sexual contact/abuse, pr my identity as a mother/wife. I probably scared a lot of people. Going from this super uptight, paranoid, overly attentive parent.. to honestly, kins d of a normal person. And though I can appreciate peoples concerns, especially with children involved, with such a drastic and seemingly sporadic personality change... their real motivations were never to ensure the safety of my boys. They could have just talked to me,voiced their concerns. We could have found some understanding, compromise, or maybe I would have even agreed and calmed the fuck down. Instead. My kids first full summer visit with them was virtually the last time I would see them. At first I thought, it will a buff out, they'll realize the gossip between themselves doesn't represent our home life and I would never had been angry for then ensuring those children are being cared for with every beat of my heart. Then a month goes by...and I start getting served.. one by one .. to keep them from me... COMPLETELY. I hadn't gotten any real treatment in my life at that point. But they were all aware that dealt with very disturbing visual hallucinations from about 7 years old until about 14. They also knew, that after the birth od my first I had been experiencing more and more paranoia and auditory hallucinations were pretty frequent though usually pretty benign.. like conversations I can't really make out clearly.... or hearing a familiar tv program on when I didn't even have cable. I also heard the children a lot, but chocked it up to being a mom always listening out for your kids. My last husband was the one that took these things I shared with him, and why...idk... but though it was a great resource to prank me. So he put a voice changer under my pillow one night. As I lay there...for the first time, this voice was clear..clearly speaking to me..and I knew I may not be safe to be around my kids anymore. So I run into the bathroom where he was...balling hysterically though the sound was so hard to make. I just said, "please take me to the hospital right, RIGHT NOW. something is very wrong. I am very wrong. The voices are real now... and talking TO ME. I can't be around the kids, it's not safe" and I collapsed in tears and anguish...wondering if I would lose myself/my mind completely before I could even take my own life... to keep them safe. And this monster is laughing, saying, "it's okay baby. It was just me. Just a joke". I hadn't even comprehended these words when he comes back in with the little walkie talkie type thing and demonstrates. I was broken. And still so unsure. How, why...weren't even questions yet. Neither relief. I was engrossed in this very real known this could happen ..for real though..or worse...at any time. So when he said he's been insisting I get medicated anyway, I guess I just thought, I hope it's enough. My diagnosis for years were always kind of idk...I don't want to say generic. I was treated by the local MHMR(state run service for those who don't know) they're only allowed to treat 4 diagnosis besides mental retardation. The psychiatric side treats schizophrenia, major depressive, bipolar disorder, and schizoaffective disorders. I was diagnosed with the latter 3 and there is no real therapy given, or even help understanding/coping with symptoms, etc. Just meds. A d the doctors rotate every time. I never felt comfortable dispelling everything I've been dealing with...not to mention all of the hours I spent crying the bathroom because of an ill phrased comment/question that I completely took to that place "far, far away" . The first one was , "so...what is your point ?" As I'm rambling quickly through what I'm condensing into our 10 min appt I think most relevent...and of course some tangents. After I was convinced to stop crying and unlock the bathroom door about 2 hours later...by a nurse I called from a different clinic.. I told the man interviewing me that that question or statement made feel like I was invalidated, that he didn't care to even hear my symptoms from me, and this wasn't the safe I was told it should be (what the nurse helped me say). He apologized and said it was merely to find out if rapid cycling bipolar was the true fit..but he was considering ADD as well. And knowing if I circle back eventually to the main topic was important for the diagnosis. I cried again and told him to please find a different way to phrase that to other patients. That fragile and fearful peoples ..well.. that's a lot to hear for them.

[@blakewin8167]

Whoa. How did you just describe so many of my traits…insane

[@yungfoodstampzzz9878]

Your describing my life

[@ivyleanne8213]

Anyway, I take the meds. Things aren't really changing too much but I am graduating from college then, I am realizing the abuse in this relationship (I once mistook for love because control and intimidation were what my father modeled to me as love) and I decided I wasn't raising my kids in that toxicity. I know from experience, even those best at hiding the violence and emotional battery from the children...you can't. They know. And it's just as damaging. Driven by ego and revenge, my ex decided to come for my kids. He rallied the other two families and they jumped at the chance.

[@aaafamilylegobuilders8847]

Dr. Fox I would also would love to thank you on your videos and recommending those 3 reads on How to care for BDP, Stop walking on Eggshells and there was one more, I wish I would of know about all off this before or earlier. Thank you and on your behalf we are all at the end of humans. Thank you again

[@DrDanielFox]

You're very welcome.

[@nourmakhlouf3471]

A great and insightful video. I am always looking forward to seeing your videos. I read all ur books as well :) please share with us more book recommendations 👍👍👍👍👍👍

[@AA-ts2wi]

Whoaaaaa didn’t know this was the word for it

[@DrDanielFox]

Glad you found this helpful. Be well.

[@ChaoticChevy]

I definitely have extreme echoism but I am not really sure where it came from? My mom is a really supportive, caring, sacrificing person. Maybe my dad? Hmm. Could romantic relationships also affect this?

[@DrDanielFox]

Yes

[@kristinehirtle6021]

The fact that you added the word sacrificing to describe your mother could be something to think about. I would describe my mother the same way. Unfortunately, I am not, by nature, sacrificing . I believe that my conflict between who I am and who I was expected to be has contributed greatly to my Echoism and my BPD as a whole.Just a thought...🙂

[@christi_nya]

My mom is the same and I have bpd is this a common relevance?

[@bethtaylor9773]

We act on what we think is true. Getting to know Jesus has changed my view of myself over time. Overheard an old AA say that once - 'If Jesus loves me, who am I to tell Him He's wrong?" All the years in Al-Anon and working steps has helped that happen. I believe that the concept of echoism fit me perfectly years ago. Not so much now. I take risks and set boundaries so much better and have better relationships as a result now. Have lost a few along the way - grieved them or my concept of who they were and went on to better things. Can risk that because God is my rock. What He thinks of me is more important than what anyone else thinks of me. Didn't lose the enjoyment when I could help someone - but my worth is no longer dependent on that.

[@raider3c3k]

Very insightful. Thank you.

[@mandylouadkins]

I’m so done w self blame. Needed this vide o💖answers:yes, yes, no

[@outofthebox183]

I guess i need to work on being the driver more.

[@yourenough3]

Hello Dr. Fox 😊

[@Star-dj1kw]

interesting video ✅

[@kateskeys]

You described my mother

[@shaun_rambaran]

Here's a thought: Do Echoist parents create Narcissistic children? (And is that, therefore, the complete cycle?)

[@sirenachantal471]

Thank you for covering Ecoism and giving some references! I feel like I can be nothing more than a mirror to some important people in my life. Like I have to repeat back what they believe in order to be loved. Being noticed is frightening because now you’re seen and vulnerable to becoming a target.

[@n.c.6211]

Thank you Dr. Fox, I have started doing your BPD workbook and am dating so with NPD traits or covert narcissism. Could we heal together? If so how?

[@sirenachantal471]

People with NPD usually do not heal because it takes a bit of vulnerability to admit they have NPD. It is usually too painful for them to be seen as vulnerable even a just little bit. NPD is enormously painful and almost as equally hard to understand if you don’t have it. A girlfriend’s job is not to be a someone’s therapist. As my Dad used to say, it might be time to cut bait and try again.

[@jennifermaxine2453]

I always fought back against my opinionated parents...my dad actually step dad raised me out of tough love...& a bit of narcissism too...both him & my mom had traits but not full disorder of covert/overt narc parenting...but I tried my best to tell my dad to get vaccinated, he said no way.. now I've just attended his funeral...he was the light & backbone of our lives. Both my mother & step father had a lot of narc traits...but I wish my stepdad would've been more open...cause of his opinions he is deceased...he didnt heed my warning..Ironically he told me how impressed he was by my logic...but, him being opinionated & narcissistic, he wouldn't listen to anyone, unless maybe it was ahority figure

[@DrDanielFox]

Challenging dynamics. I wish you well.

[@lauraliz6782]

Can you do a video on how to he happy being single with bpd?

[@jazon85k]

It is sound like enneagram 9. -(I think AvPD is the closest PD to unhealthy enneagram 9.)-

[@lalalove2223]

hey dr.daniel fox what is the difference between covert narcissism and echoism can you please do a video on this

[@CinematicSoulQuest]

Healthy narcissism.....mmmm that's gonna stick with me

[@RosePierce.]

How are people like this it doesn’t make logical sense unless they were abused or brainwashed into this mindset then why bother not saying I wouldn’t date someone like this but still it feels so foreign

[@FirstnameLastname-cx6go]

Oh my God.

[@DrDanielFox]

Very true thank you for commenting

[@dyannacarrell9854]

I appreciate you

[@gbernardwandel4174]

Truly interesting I’m wondering if couples can work in tandem thinking that “they” are in the echo and not getting needs met at the expense of the other and miss their overly narcissistic qualities? In other words it shifts back and forth with either being the lacking one and then taking over in other ways

[@ivyleanne8213]

The "monster" ex has ties in thus small town. He just told them I was a stripper on antipsychotics. I played the judge once in private of audio I recorded of my ex bartering a sexual contract with me to drop the case...he would even pay me". She said I was a whole for accepting it. After that, I knew if his counterfeit money schemes, open Marijuana use in front of our son, as well as my son constantly being taken to the grandmother because his dad was treating suicide after he murdered my family...sister and her kids included, that our son could likely become a ward of the state. And I knew his grandparents were loving him just as I would. The middle ones grandparents have connections in Houston police dept as well as plenty of funds for endless court dates. They had it moved to a county none of us resided in somehow. I was able ,representing myself, to get the grandpa to admit under oath that they lied to me and had me sign my rights away under the guise of wanting to enroll him in a special tutoring school as well as the right to provide Healthcare while he's with them. I had no reason to question it at that time. I also had the case moved to the proper jurisdiction. Unfortunately, that county has a huge backlog...oh yeah, and he had just retired as a very decorated police lieutenant. I tried so hard to reason with them. Offered to live/work/follow any conditions they wanted to prove myself and these fears unfounded. But that's not what they wanted. When they stopped letting me see him, and my youngest son's father was coercing me with sex to have any chance to see him...though he usually didn't follow through...and my eldest wouldn't speak to me. He said he needed to live with his father because he needed him more...he had no friends or dated anyone and unfortunately I mistook that as athe thoughts empathic and thoughtful child. I also felt with the threats from my last husband...including him breaking through my door one day with all of the children home, that maybe that would be a really good move for my boy. I'm not his only parent, and I thought would feel safer and get to have a childhood he deserves. I didn't realize his father was not only seriously alienating from me, but also emotionally abusing him in essence. Leaving the burden of his emotional care, his social life/friends, etc... just loading that responsibility and unhealthy dynamic on my son.

[@blueskiesforever114]

Dr Fox, if one has an elderly narcissistic ( demonstrates the full gamet of all cluster b Symptoms) mother whose mind is still clear as a bell, but mean and manipulative as ever. Our situation is exactly opposite the adult children trying to take advantage of elder mother. Our mother manipulated the lawyer in our small town, took my sister & My share of trust our father left, and also discovered she recently forged our names to cash in our cd’s, & savings act our late great mother had left to us, and a farm. Amounts to over a million. What makes it worse if flaunting in our faces with arrogance. There’s only the farm left now, is there any hope we can recover at least the farm her being old? Is there anything like financial abuse ( which is what has happened) to get it in our name, she’s also a hoarder, so it’s to be used to keep a money supply for the hoard? Thank you

[@amber40494]

You need a really good estate attorney!

[@courtneypace4624]

Dr. Fox, have you heard of Human Design? I am so curious to hear your take on how it affects those of us with personality disorders! I was diagnosed with BPD, but after discovering Human Design, I'm wondering if I don't have a disorder and it's just the way I'm designed...

[@jonahblock]

Can it be possible to slingshot between this and the other side of narcissism?

[@kristinehirtle6021]

Hello, Dr.Fox, I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 five years ago, and B.P.D. one year later. My question about Echoism is : is it possible that a same sex parent who is the primary caregiver but NOT a narcissist can contribute to echoism? I am an introvert, my same sex parent is an extrovert with a very healthy sense of self. However, she also believes that a good/nice person always allows others opinions to be foremost, and almost always defers to others. Our personalities are very dissimilar. I am like my opposite sex parent but where I grew up I was expected to be like my same sex parent. I do not believe I was raised by a narcissist, but was so aware that I was not like I was "supposed"to be that it helped contribute to my feelings of worthlessness and lack of sense of self. In every intimate partnership I have had, from as early as dating in my teens, I have always tried to be what I thought the other person wanted.I see valuing myself or my needs or wants as demanding and overbearing. I could go on and on about the many turns and twists if my classic BPD. I really enjoy your videos. I don't have access to regular therapy. Neither do I have family I can talk to, or friends I want to bother with my issues so thank you for providing a bit of calm in the neverending storm that is my world.

[@emmafilamo8519]

I viewed myself..echoism

[@kayk8342]

Isn’t this set of beliefs and the behaviour exerted by Echoism what followers of cults possess ?? 😮 eg. Follow the leader, be selfless, help ever, don’t have any wants or desires…..etc….

[@jennifermaxine2453]

Covert Narcissist is the eco...they are sick too & understand each other

[@DrDanielFox]

It's certainly complex.

[@catherineozarko5480]

Dr. Fox I would appreciate a phone session or consult with you regarding a family member that is quite critical. I will look on your web site...

[@NeilJSchwab]

Does that go for parents because I have three girls and a single father and I don't think there's any of you left... At all I kind of feel like that

[@siryoucantdothat9743]

Codependent renamed “ echoism “

[@siryoucantdothat9743]

Didnt buy it … he cant even make a definitive distinction

[@xoTheMoxieQueen]

Echoism? Is this a new word to describe codependency? This is Ross Rosenberg all over again - Creating yet another new label of mental unbalance (Self Love Deficit Disorder 🙄) Oy vey These labels just kill me. You’re on a spectrum with Service to Self on one end -&- Service to Others on the other. Swinging too far to one side (Being severely out of balance of either of those) is UNHEALTHY. The level in which you are out of balance is your “label”. It’s a spectrum. Seek balance.

[@SilasAram]

Its like Stockholm Syndrome

[@adskdhkkkkgfghjj5991]

Thank you for your videos, Dr. Fox 😊

[@11damkina11]

Thank you so much.

[@DrDanielFox]

You're welcome!

[@tawnyataylor9607]

Thank you, I had never heard of this before, and it fits to a tee in every aspect of my life. Your videos are a huge help in my life. Thank u again.

[@christi_nya]

Same

[@ashh848]

I wonder if codependence is an extreme of echoism or if echoism leads to codependence. Certainly it seems codependents must have echoism as a trait.

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

I"m curious about the relationship between echoism, and codependence, to dependent personality disorder

[@wendyleeconnelly2939]

He addresses it just slightly in this video and I am going to view the video on DPD he referred to.

[@TylerLarson]

This was very much me; but only when my wife was around. Not at work; there I'm gregarious and confident. Not with my parents or siblings; there I'm opinionated and inclusive. And not before I got married. Just with her. It was entirely situational, but that situation was most of my life. It doesn't have to be a lifelong personality trait; when paired with a narcissist, echoism (self-defeat included) becomes a survival trait. I've been described as "disastrously loyal," which became super relevant here. The divorce literally saved my life.

[@thereisnosanctuary6184]

Men are supposed to be loyal to,their wife.

[@TylerLarson]

@@thereisnosanctuary6184 yeah. I really did think that. I believed that men were inherently aggressive and dangerous and needed to be submissive in order to be acceptable as humans. It's not hard to see where the message came from; I'd heard it most of my life, and not from my parents.

[@Tetradepodmelontea]

How about many loyal men, who were faithful to one woman without cheating, even "in moderation" and without feeling bad or submissive about themselves? Being loyal and monogamous is rare trait but it does not mean you are less of a man than a charismatic cheater. It does not mean submissiveness, just care and devotion.

[@cailinanne]

“Know your worth”. I say it to myself daily. It helps. Really. 💕

[@DrDanielFox]

That is definitely a good question to ask yourself on a regular basis and to build yourself up and recognize your worth and impact on your own life in the life of those closest to you. Stay well.

[@apolloknights007]

My sister is a narcissist and a bit of a psychopath. She has been killing me the world has too for more than 60 years.

[@mrfake675]

This reminds me of mimetics. I put God first now. Otherwise I'm a walking echo chamber.

[@annesmith1491]

thank you for sharing this.

[@aleishabitrsweetempathyhou9595]

Wow.... this changes everything i painfully struggled to come to terms with.....

[@CatsArePeopleToo]

It blows my mind to hear about behaviors I've always had that I never even knew were "a thing," let alone had a name.

[@timothycalco8089]

Oftentimes, avoiding relationship disruption is an expression of control issues. Someone with these issues would rather be walked all over like a welcome mat than ask for their needs to be met and give the other person the choice to deny them.

[@cricketbeansprout9394]

noooooo the truth hurts 😭

[@mimimiller763]

Exactly

[@Tetradepodmelontea]

Giving others choice to deny us means we truly value freedom of other people. And rather prefer be dead by their hand than be forcefully liked.