EP24 Manifesting the Muse with Rick

Rick Rubin joins Dan to discuss human creativity. This unusual show evolves as it goes though and by the end covers a wide array of subjects and topics. By the end it isn't even clear who is asking questions and who is answering them.
1. “Broken Record” with Rick Rubin and Malcolm Gladwell www.pushkin.fm... 2. “Tetragrammaton” podcast with Rick Rubin tunein.com/rad... 3. “From Cyrus to Alexander: A History of the Persian Empire” by Pierre Briant 4. “The Creative Habit: Learn It and Use It for Life” by Twyla Tharp 5. “The Artist's Way” by Julia Cameron 6. “Daily Creative Habit Creative Journal” by Mike Brennan

[@TheBengriffin57]

It's unfathomable for me to think about how I started listening to this show as a highschool student and now I'm a 30 year old man. Thanks Dan you have been a constant in my life, when I was a broke college student I would still find the money to buy all your episodes on the website. I still look forward to each and every episode.

[@RealCreyDaddy]

My guy Dan, Everyday you drop is a good day. Thanks sir.

[@deelanders6132]

This autoplayed last night woke up at about 40 min mark at 238am. Still listening. Incredible interview

[@sulthasserlin7533]

I Love how shocked and genuine Dan is when Rick asked about Common sense. It's one of the reasons why it is such a good podcast / Radio show to listen to even now.

[@mustbtrouble]

You mean the political podcast that has one episode in the last two years

[@tristanfinnberg4607]

I love Hardcore History, but I only listen to old episodes of Common Sense to laugh at how bad an ideology his radical centrism is.

[@webs5242]

Thank You Rick. My favorite old school hip hop track is T LA Rock's "It's Yours". My favorite 90's album is "World Ultimate" by The Nonce. Both were produced by Rick Rubin.

[@carlsmith4568]

Dan is so great at interviews. You can tell that his guests enjoy conversing with him.

[@timtoney9646]

When the landscape of worthy content is barren. Dan comes along and blesses us like manna from heaven.

[@axiotera]

you guys may be my favorite 2 people in the world. thank you so much

[@farmerjerome685]

Thank you Dan, a great interview with Rick. Very informative podcast. I learned a lot and new ways to think. Awesome as all of your videos are. Thanks for sharing, I appreciate it. You always make me want to listen to next podcast

[@jeffblazeos6127]

Don’t forget that Alex grey wrote a book called art and artist. He gets it too. Also as an artist , this was a joy to listen to while I worked

[@thelevelbeyondhuman]

What a perfect Valentine’s Day present, thanks Dan, Rick! (And Ben)

[@CL-we8tn]

Seconded!

[@koehnboy]

This conversation really should have a million views

[@theresewalters1696]

Enjoying this immensely! Thanks!

[@ellenyoung9223]

I really enjoyed this conversation. You are very good at interviews, a great conversationalist, great at bringing interesting things out of the other person. Have been a listener for years, and really appreciate your mega episodes.

[@klaytonvonkluge4905]

2 of my favorite ppl, talking for 2 hrs.... Win - win !

[@joemanner6171]

You, sir, just saved my lonely Valentine's Day. Thank you.

[@CL-we8tn]

Happy valentines day

[@meekootsa]

I really liked the discussion of consensus reality and the balkanization of content. More isn't necessarily better.

[@Martijn_Steinpatz]

Dan Carlin and Rick Rubin. This is a matchup made in heaven!

[@prayerxtantra]

Oh man, Rick Rubin on Dan Carlin! Yessssss❤❤❤

[@TxRedMan]

February 14, 2023. It was 5:15 p.m., I was heavily invested in….something. I was alerted to a new Hardcore History ADDENDUM and immediately commenced my attention to the contents. To those who happen upon these lessons in observation I implore the same course of action.

[@BrandyD1777]

Well said @TxRedMan! Great point. On February 14th, 2023 @ 3:33p.m. I lost my Mom at 63 years young. My observations created a whole new book of lessons of creativity which in due time will teach me a way of being, living, accepting the concepts of life & the many ways it is lived. I hope that makes sense.

[@theresewalters1696]

Great stuff!Listened again.

[@masonc2649]

Thank you Rick and Dan!

[@robertcavanna789]

This conversation reminds me so much of a book called "The War of Art" by Steven Pressfield. He LOVES talking about 'the muse' as a very real creative force that drives us. From his blog: "“The Muse,” as I imagine her, is the collective identity of the nine goddesses, sisters, daughters of Zeus and Mnemosyne (Memory), whose charge it is to inspire artists. Other names for this mysterious force might be the Unconscious, the Self, the Quantum Soup. Whatever it is, it represents the unseen dimension of Potentiality that is either within us or beyond us. It’s where ideas come from."

[@SpaceCaptnFace]

i think in pressfields Alexander the Great books, he mentions, and its prevalent in greek history, the idea of a daemon or daemos... another self or version of your soul that is revealed during times of great peace or stress.

[@ayoubmoumni5263]

"It's something but I don't know that I would call it art." well put!

[@zachhoy]

I loved the wandering of this conversation

[@AB-jf9ux]

Thanks, Dan! It is always great when you post these here!

[@schamon13]

An unimaginably amplifying discussion.

[@bigduke6723]

I didn’t want this to end.

[@daan967]

Oh shit, I was waiting so long for this, there goes my Friday night.

[@richardmataisz5985]

Great Conversation! thank you

[@solidtank7957]

To people listening to this in 10, 20, 30 years, hello! 👋

[@jidduv]

Hello from 5 minutes in the future

[@0rangecray0n]

Only the real ones gonna be watching this

[@FirstOfTheMagi]

Hello from 2180!

[@gregorymilne5976]

Hello from 2024. Carlin has been elected president

[@ArminUlbrich]

That‘s a genius comment, friend. Tell them hello from me too 😊

[@robertcavanna789]

I'm glad you guys wandered onto the subject of AI art. I've been an artist my whole life, and have worked as a professional artist for over 20 years. AI is something i've added to my toolbox only in the past year. And i've spent a great deal of time since then advocating for it. AI doesn't create anything based on creative volition. It has no intention. It's code. A program. It doesn't wake up in the morning and decide; I HAVE to make images of space vikings today. It's people who do that. Ideas begin with people. Creators. The assumption that people who use AI art are not artists or are not fundamentally creative is inherently false. In general, i think it is people who are already familiar with digital media and/or have a strong art foundation who are making the most out of this new tool. But besides that, i take great joy in seeing AI creations from people who do not have ANY sort of art education or experience, and are suddenly enabled to see their ideas wrought in vibrant detail. I agree that beauty is in the eye of the beholder. An idea is either interesting or it isn't. An image or a piece of music either moves you or it doesn't. Is it art? Is a painting made by an elephant or gorilla really art? The circular arguments and dialogue following such questions are often less interesting to me than the work itself. Let creators create. If a medium jives with you, go with it. The energy which drives that process is just another manifestation of the muse. Ai art is not spawned by some malevolent alien intelligence making decisions in some anti-humanist void. It's a collaboration between creators and software designers based off of collective visual experience and ideas. No artist ever worked in a void, independent of all our predecessors. We've always been informed and inspired by everything around us. It's our individual filters which either make 'new' ideas interesting or not. Let's also please not forget that ALL tools, all machines, be they a paintbrush and oils, or cameras and photoshop, are also themselves the product of human creativity and ingenuity. They exist to enable others with varying skillsets. It's all entirely a vast human endeavor.

[@robertcavanna789]

@Black Lesbian Poet I'm happy to hear that. But let's not underestimate the potential glory of space vikings.

[@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt]

Dude you talk way too much ! I stopped reading after two sentences.

[@chickenbroski99]

@Steve Allen good one you illiterate drunk fuck

[@robertcavanna789]

@@4gegtyreeyuyeddffvyt Cliffnotes: AI can be a self-expression magnifier.

[@noinktechnique]

I hear a lot of people refer to generated images as a tool. But isn't it closer to a technique? A tool you can use haphazardly or carefully, you can improve the way you use it over time, you can use it in novel ways, but there is nothing happening in generating an image, there is no communication between you and the neural network, there is no expression once you have given it a string it understands and weighted the inputs accordingly. It's out of your hands, you have put down the tool before you ever get anything back. Paintbrushes, oils, I wonder if they ever needed advocating for? Unfortunately the ingenuity that led to the development of these systems cannot be disentangled from the enormous profit motive and indiscriminate rush to market it was created in. If the work is more interesting to you, I wonder do you use the tool more or less than when you first started Experimenting? In my experience beyond "what model?" And "what prompt?" There are no questions left to be asked of generated images. After months of research and experimentation looking at tens of thousands of generated images, one can't help but lose the sense of awe that comes from the accidental moments of interest when it becomes clear that without a method or intent, the only one with anything to bring to the experience is the viewer.

[@derekholland3328]

18:26 Like The Doors. The music is representative if the time it came out. It hits different if you were there. I wasn't there at the time, but i get it.

[@williamberry9013]

When you guys talked audiobooks and voice actors for some reason I heard Kevin Conroy saying, "I am vengeance; I am the night; I am DAN CARLIN!"

[@nickseebs5563]

Rick's right! We need Common Sense back! Forget the malcontents and fringe nuts Dan, we need you now more than ever. Superman, where are you?!?

[@conthegreatgrapeape]

The method operandi of a coward is to go silent or disappear precisely in the moment they are most needed.

[@CMDR.Gonzo.von.Richthofen]

Rick fkin' Ruben?!! You never disappoint, Dan! Thank you!

[@tantnobrowneye3133]

Seen Dan on old episode JRE last year sometime. Have listened to almost all Hardcore History on Spotify and some of this on KZbin. It’s all been great, wish I had a history teacher like this when I was in school, but I still haven’t found the one episode I went looking for originally that JRE & Dan talked about lol

[@wheresmynamego1152]

Wow. The collab I didn’t know I always wanted

[@sharpshooter33]

To people of the future. Yes we realize how messed up things are in our time

[@flense-x1z]

thanks for the show

[@conthegreatgrapeape]

This guest is fortunate to have such a pleasant voice, which will have people soothed into a lack of critical thought.

[@dylanpilcheruniverse6515]

When you talk about creativity it makes me think of what bob Dylan said about a lot of his early songs and great hits. I’m paraphrasing but he said, who knows where that stuff came from. That it kinda just sprang and flowed from his mind in an almost magical way. That he couldn’t recreate those moments or those songs if he tried.

[@Supergforce777]

A hardcore history show that’s 80% as good as the best show is still miles above everything else

[@debztully1339]

Great content!

[@danielfennessy]

Thanks Dan!!!

[@kingzjay-f7m]

ABSOLUTELY RUBBUSH

[@aarsandijvie]

For Rick Rubin and anybody who is interested, probably the best versions of early medieval ecclesiastical music is Ensemble Organum. Eastern Orthodox music is another story but I highly recommend : Sergei Rachmaninov - USSR Ministry of Culture Chamber Choir, Valeri Polyansky - Vespers Op. 37.

[@gregmerk427]

To Rick, I hear you about Classical. It’s why I’m always hesitant about purchasing Classical. Check out The Feelies version of Paint It Black.

[@jimbo3779]

Dan used cutting a forest down as an example of changing people and compared it to what a Neanderthal would do. Dan, please investigate the history of man's use of trees. The products produced are timeless and extremely useful. Today scientific forest management can grow forests forever.

[@katieswanson1329]

"my mom used to say, there's only two things in life tht are constant... change and change" Lyfe Jennings

[@capatheist]

Rick seems to uave the respect of so many people i respect on this subject... I still to this day dont understand how a producer, no mater how successfull... Can be the authority on creativity?? Much less the muse... Thats the artists no?

[@Hypnotiq406]

Dan keeping up with my addiction to his show.. 🤘🏽

[@HankBukowski]

This is the greatest podcast ever made. Ever.

[@alexbrint3798]

There are two things that I really love....the red hot chili peppers and hardcore history. now I have a bridge between that seemingly endless chasm. what reality have I found myself in?

[@lawrencemartin24]

Damn... Just saw my alert. Its 10:11 and I just put a K cup in the Kuerig. My wife looked at me and said "coffee so late?" I told her Dan Carlin just arrived.

[@deusvult5247]

Dan Carlin I love you

[@klaytonvonkluge4905]

Around 2:19:20 , Rick talked About being vegan - I went vegan for a few years, and I felt better & lost weight during that period, but I still went back to carnivorous ways; I debate on going back to pseudo vegan, maybe eating mostly just healthy vegetables, and some meat, like fish only, something like that.

[@brianwasankari5213]

May want to mention folks like Don Lemon or Ibram X. Kendi as "heat" generators, too. Have you no shame" might be a good question for the currently ruling elite, and not just its critics.

[@underneathoz]

thank you

[@mattmattigan5036]

My best friend does a lot of freelance art and writing work, his biggest concern right now is the Wizards of the Coast license, and how many fantasy artists are going to be out of work now, thus affecting the flow and effect of that specific economy.

[@timtoney9646]

12:37 I feel like Rick is talking about TOOL. Especially, with Maynard’s comments about Fear Inoculate.

[@edwardjtruskyjr.1098]

As a preforming musician for over 40 years I think back at bands and places I played in the 70's and I can remember the set list, the night of the week I played there, the time of year, the weather........ect...... It is like that time and place are frozen in time, or Amber,

[@Terinije]

The future of AI art isn't a piece of art upfront about being made by a robot, it's people taking credit for AI as their own. I guarantee that everyone reading this comment has already enjoyed a picture or a story or a piece of music made by a program and with a person's name stamped on it. And the tech is only going to get more refined and better as time progresses.

[@cannonfodder4376]

Welp I know what I will be listening to at work.

[@borisborski1876]

Yessss!

[@chrisschmid5212]

peak radio in 2023

[@hypno5690]

Wow I knew Rick was making the circuit but Carlin? Just awesome.

[@gregmerk427]

Exile was early 70’s. France, after The Stones left England, to escape the excessive taxation.

[@tanegurnick5071]

Woo-hoo. Perfect timing, get me through the rest of this dumb cyclone

[@Mom-ii5jn]

Around @2:45:00 Borneo divided into 3 countries, Malaysia being one of them and a huge chunk of the raw commodity that is produced by the labor of many indigenous ,while the capital of much of the commercial farming ( especially palm oil ; product of a minority of large scale, land owning commercial farmers with those uncannily equidistant palm trees that one can endlessly see on a bus ride from Kinabalu to Sandikan); so maybe the tin-roofed poor class inhabitants are about as responsible for Borneo’s depletion of its diversity of wilderness as we the consumers of this globally, made into &, traded commodity.

[@QsLegend24]

Never been this early but I always love a good Carlin HH

[@Y4GE]

💙🙏💙

[@DendriticFractals]

I wonder how long the conversation really was.

[@kieronedwards6249]

44:51 no books about creativity in 2015? The War of Art by steven pressfield 2012. He also writes period fiction about ancient Greece and idolises the muse ,you should have him on.

[@dustyfairview9062]

YAY DAN!!!!!!!! thnx for the hat!

[@Elguapodelfuego]

Heard customers talking about this podcast at the steakhouse I work at. I had to tell them ima listener as well. Hopefully he’s seeing this comment lol.

[@robertcavanna789]

The thing i would like Rick to know about AI art and personal filters is that they're still very much connected. If me and 5 other artist friends compare our AI output, it is very very easy to tell who produced which images. Because our personalities, interests and creative focus are all different. We are going to pursue different topics, and have different ideas we wish to explore. Therein lies the problem with thinking of AI art as not being the product of very personal creative energy. It always comes across to me as helping people to be more in touch with their own internal narratives.

[@BsERoss]

The problem with that argument is that the images you're producing from the AI are all scraped from real artwork. It can only produce what it's already seen.

[@robertcavanna789]

​@@BsERoss 'It can only produce what it's already seen.' -partially, true. But ALL artists also create based on what they have seen. How do you think artists learn? By looking at things and studying them closely. If i sit down to make a drawing of a horse, i'm looking at maybe 5-10 hand-picked images for reference. The AI looks at hundreds of thousands of images. Now i also may have past experience studying horse anatomy, but again that comes from looking and research. (That knowledge also remains useful for correcting frequent AI mistakes). I have programmed myself to understand horses. And i have done it by looking at images of horses. I do not see machine learning as all that different. I use midjourney, and the algorithm is designed specifically not to copy any one piece of art directly. In many ways, it has more safeguards than people. I've also fed it images of my own artwork, trying to replicate my style, and it can't come close to simulating my particular aesthetics. But back to your original point; i think it's more accurate to say that AI produces BASED on what it has seen. AI is more than capable of creating original imagery -making something utterly new. If my friend made an aboriginal post-human hybrid with MJ, i guarantee that you will not find an exact duplicate of that image anywhere. We've tested this extensively. Is it possible to make utterly derivative art with AI? Absolutely. But that doesn't make it interesting or useful.Pop culture has been flooded with derivative art long before AI came around. IMO, the best stuff is always going to come from those willing to explore uncharted territory. And AI can be very useful to that end.

[@Terinije]

Athletes believe things into existence as well. To paraphrase Crash Davis from Bull Durham, an admittedly fictional athlete.... if an athlete believes something is good luck or a jinx, it is.

[@mid.cavz.prodution]

I wonder how self-conscious Dan is about being modern homer

[@bassedtaz]

This was timely for me.

[@matthewbzdawka1232]

I don't know if you care Dan. it's always been this way

[@SuperPol1981]

2:25:00 You're thinking of Giordano Bruno

[@andypottkotter9743]

Consider Colligwood's opinion on magic expressed in Principles of Art.

[@stealthyjun]

dude wth? i'm 40 minutes in and they've limited themselves to talk about how great they both are.

[@KMeeks]

Much love!

[@CancelledPhilosopher]

Creativity 101

[@Justtryingtosurvive83]

How the mighty have fallen.😢

[@cadepeppin4581]

Cube exercise is at 1:50:01

[@CL-we8tn]

Thank you God, a 3 hour addendum 🙏🙏🙏

[@seas1392]

here we go again. i dont need sleep right now anyway

[@AndersonTheAgent]

Big fan of Rick's work, but I can't sit through another 2+ hour interview of him.

[@thedavidlevi]

Fuck yes

[@oliviamartiskainen4739]

Heck yes

[@Onelight_space]

Refik Anadol is an AI creator with creations at MOMA and more.

[@PhazeWun]

Mccarthy was right … ur current view is the crazy one dan

[@michaelstevanovic233]

Sleeping soundly tn

[@JollyDeathCow]

John Richard Boyd.

[@madamesaundere]

Dan has a better perspective on the past than the present.

[@aarinlangan2148]

Z

[@madamesaundere]

@@aarinlangan2148 ??

[@mcnally211]

@@madamesaundere can i ask you a serious question respectfully? Why do you support the only nation on earth to have open NAHATZES in their government and military? ( i.e. Deny Poropenko, right sector, AZOV battalion, stepan Bandera ) you obviously like history, so you know what that black sun wheel & lightning bolts symbolize. So why do you supportthat ideology?,

[@shanartisan]

Don't we all

[@madamesaundere]

@@shanartisan here in Poland we keep close watch, so you dont have to. Chwala Polska

[@richhutch4205]

9:11 So, Rick Rubin creates all of these masterpieces of media, and when he’s done he doesn’t re-listen. He is so consumed with “new material”, that he doesn’t have the time, or the interest, in the maturing of his work. Is his creativity an impulsive, or compulsive manifestation?

[@gabrielmorales3441]

I find it interesting that Rick and Dan's issue is they don't beleive a tax would be effective in redistributing the wealth, when I have the exact opposite problem, I don't beleive there is any incentibe strong enough to guarantee any rich dude is gonna renounce ghe wealth they have accumulated