Facecheck S02E22 - NA Doesn't Know How to Scout Young Talent

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#IWillDominate #Facecheck #Podcast
01:48 The worst play Dom has ever seen
06:42 IWD Joins C9
08:31 Start of LCS week 9 Talk
09:10 EG roster changes made them worse?
13:59 CLG doesn't make the cut
17:45 CLG and IMT season eulogy
26:23 Thought process behind benching your best players
30:02 How long do you give new LCS players to adjust
32:35 Scouting talent from amateur scene
44:13 How to differentiate talent
51:21 Playoffs bracket
52:03 Who TL chooses from winners
54:47 Playoffs thoughts: Golden Guardians vs TSM
59:44 Can Evil Geniuses win any playoff games
1:04:35 Predictions on 3 NA teams going to Worlds
1:09:30 Losing to Shopkeeper
1:29:43 Draft issues in NA

[@IWDominatelol]

01:48 The worst play Dom has ever seen 06:42 IWD Joins C9 08:31 Start of LCS week 9 Talk 09:10 EG roster changes made them worse? 13:59 CLG doesn't make the cut 17:45 CLG and IMT season eulogy 26:23 Thought process behind benching your best players 30:02 How long do you give new LCS players to adjust 32:35 Scouting talent from amateur scene 44:13 How to differentiate talent 51:21 Playoffs bracket 52:03 Who TL chooses from winners 54:47 Playoffs thoughts: Golden Guardians vs TSM 59:44 Can Evil Geniuses win any playoff games 1:04:35 Predictions on 3 NA teams going to Worlds 1:09:30 Losing to Shopkeeper 1:29:43 Draft issues in NA

[@genaricTallGuy]

Thanks!

[@MKWiiLuke4TW]

@b0sse that's why ls says morello's costs 1400 gold, because the question isn't why to buy any parts of the item, but why upgrade oblivion orb to morellos over sitting on oblivion and buying another item. edit: just got to the exact point in the vid and if he doesn't buy morellos and sits on oblivion he has armor pen and he has full deathcap at that point in the game for example, so it accelerates your more important items.

[@TheNBSPerry]

hey dom you should just paste the timestamps in the descriptions. It shows the time bar at the bottom of the video with the time stamps already in them if you do

[@xhlee6409]

if cait atks the base they win yes, BUT if u have 75% crit chance, and u only getting 2 crit hits of 10 auto atk, it's just really unlucky. but they clearly just ignored that.

[@LightningMcMurphy]

No Name because he shouldn’t have even been attempting to hit them. We shouldn’t even know how many he missed. He should’ve just auto-Ed the nexus and done

[@sonemesis7083]

NA is an amazing region, we just need to work on communication, mechanics, draft, wave management, coaching, macro, team comradery, team fighting and getting kills.

[@TheArrivalCyberse]

And grammar apparently. Kekw

[@luukvankrugten7253]

Back in the season 3-4 days one of the things na was really good at was making the na players hyped up. With videos about them and their personality. But they stoped doing that as well 😅.

[@kcal12]

Luuk van Krugten well what do you wanna do? A feeding hype montage ? They could make a series out it, like „recall“ in the LEC, you could call it „the Turbo Int“

[@luukvankrugten7253]

@@kcal12 well back in the day you had clips of them talking about whats your favourite skin what's your best play, what is your favourite champion? And they just talk about shit and have a laugh. No days its all so serious and especially for a region known to be bad that doesn't work. At least make it fun with some personality. That's where Eu got blamed for back in the day. We had no personality and na did.

[@imthegeoff9491]

If NA Did more scouting and less importing they might be looking better as a whole region

[@jasonchen4807]

Basically the Immortals and CLG coaches are playing Mobile Legends: Bang Bang.

[@themlgbrosftw4960]

Omg I forgot about that old gem

[@tlawrow9292]

😂

[@lewisblackwiththenicehair]

More like snake on a Nokia 3310

[@amadeux5471]

@Matt Obra In sea. Don't compare League to that shit game lol. They're not on the same level.

[@lewisblackwiththenicehair]

@@amadeux5471 are you insinuating League is not also a shit game?

[@jonathanlui930]

"There is no young talent if we cant see it"

[@jasonchen4807]

-Lee Sin, August 2020

[@kevinhenderson9165]

Jason Chen underated comment

[@cccop0]

"I dont think Golden Guardians can beat TSM in a best of 5" That aged POORLY

[@hoppowins7746]

Obviously he was talking about the second Bo5 LULW

[@broc1617]

the disgust in LS's face when watching that LPL clip hahah

[@PoisoNico93]

I can hear a billion questions in his mind, all trying their hardest to come out of his mouth

[@lektornese]

I feel whenever people talk about scouting they need to praise Peter Dunn. He literally found Carzy in EUW soloq in 2017 . like this man goes the distance in every region. BIG shoutout

[@davidthemax2942]

I think Peter Dunn is a blessing. He does all of this great job but he also shares a lot of his work and methodology with the internet via podcasts and stuff unlike many other talent scouts

[@jorgelenny47]

DUDE, they sign the best young players in the world. Name a team in the entire world that would sign a superstar like eika or ryoma, bet you can't.

[@kotikkotik945]

Not an import but Jacktroll is playing in LEC...

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Imagine the quality of NA midlaners if bjergson and Jenson stayed in EU

[@jorgelenny47]

Lets just say that the best canadian mid is in academy, on a 2 country region

[@iamcrazypeople6961]

​@@jorgelenny47 NA and EU are not country regions. they are continents, China Japan ,Korea, brazil, Russia, Vietnam are country regions.

[@iamcrazypeople6961]

NA and EU are not country regions. they are continents, China Japan ,Korea, brazil, Russia, Vietnam are country regions.

[@cainlimbo9294]

Ah my weekly dose of Facecheck... give it to me straight into my veins

[@user-kn5ll5ny5o]

*dose

[@BiggDaddyBubbles]

Hey Dom, just wanted to say that you and Trick2g are basically my go-to League content ever since I gave up on the absolute ape escape that is ranked. Thanks buddy.

[@lukaskeel5337]

Really good episode guys. Feel like DGon has been doing a great job lately

[@AnotherPanther]

DGON is such a nice guy

[@hayofriese8698]

48:20 what c9 does is VERY good. A suggestion dom, dgon, or LS, is to take a look at the football club Ajax in the netherlands and how they operate. They breed talent from young ages, then sell them to other orgs. FC Barcelona signed 23 year old Frenkie De Jong for 75 million or something, and 20 year old Mathijs De Ligt for 75 million to Juventus, so that 150 million in one year for AJAX from just 2 signings. Even if they dont win, having a youth academy, having them exposed to the scene, and then selling em is SO good for business, and it stumps me why esports doesnt do that, and instead just gets washed up imports Good to hear C9s ahead on this subject matter.

[@ricobarth]

Southhampton in England is a good example in the Premier League, for the anglo-centric people. Most NA fans don't understand the development system of international soccer. None of the major sports have the "academy" system that allow you to "develop and sell" players. Maybe baseball a little, but not football or basketball, or any sport dominated by the NCAA cartel.

[@SaarlaneKretiin]

i feel like the reason why LoL doesnt do it is bcs the scale of the leagues, money and popularity. football is literally the most popular sport afterall that is relevant almost everywhere and has had almost a century of history and global tv and media coverage

[@bigtik5233]

SaarlaneKretiin Cultural differences too. No youth systems exist in American sports at all, college athletics is too big here. On your other point though, this is the first time ever the LCS is actually turning a profit for Riot and the franchises so maybe we will see that develop

[@jack90054]

It's actually done to a lesser degree in the LPL. They have the LDL, which is basically a minor league for the LPL. One of the best teams in it is a team called YM owned by former player PDD. That team is very well-known for producing all-stars then selling them to LPL teams. Some notable names include: iG's jungle, Ning RNG's support, Ming TES midlane, Knight FPX JG, Tian ...and more.

[@lewisblackwiththenicehair]

The issue with that analogy is that footballers have defined peak years, where they're at their physical prime, normally between 25-30, it's not quite as cut and dry with LoL because it's all about mental aptitude and personality (i.e are they willing to try and learn, does the player tilt hard, are they a shotcaller, etc.) It's difficult to look at a player and gauge what their scope is potential-wise, whereas in football it's more tangible, if they're playing well in a decent team and are young it's fairly easy to see they could improve and move up to a bigger team, whereas league doesn't really have an established player peak, so it's hard to say oh yeah this guy's 21 he's going to improve or this guy's nearly 30 so he must be on the decline, realistically there is a peak, but since we're only 10 years into its existence we don't have much comparison to work that out if you get where I'm coming from.

[@MyAzhole]

Worth play of the week should start every podcast ahaha

[@Thejollyoldbman]

When is Dom and LS going to make a new team. imagine them 2 as managers they would KILL IT

[@cosipurple]

Team RDM Run it Down Mid.

[@piewee1999]

I wanna say team Lost Crack Salesman but thats gonne be LCS and actual lcs wouldnt allow that

[@forestlaw7299]

SK Shop keepers. Gatekeep all of NA.

[@chriscobi634]

Team LSD. Combines both their names initials and is LSD is one step away from crack, so Dom should know something about it.

[@peel1047]

Team HIV?

[@Andy-xd5dj]

Dom looking more and more like a vampire every day

[@Ranorimonus]

@IWDominate The Caitlyn actually farmed the Aphelios turret when both turrets were down btw

[@incarser101]

The caitlyn player was feeling himself and that he was going to kill both of them and then the nexus...needless to say he was very wrong

[@omixam1868]

He dealt about half of the aphellios' health with an autoattack because of infernal and thought he could two shot him. Kind of makes sense to why he attacked him a couple times but it doesn't explain why he kept on going for like 6 auto attacks

[@andrews9695]

@@omixam1868 I think it was mentioned that Caitlyn got really unlucky with her crits. I think she had like 75% crit and out of like 6 AA's only two were crits or something like that.

[@incarser101]

Omixam ya haha it explained it didn’t justify it though but at least we know his thought process 😂

[@VictorPerez-sh7et]

“Spawn like a minion” -DGON

[@kjohnk69]

i goddamn love FaceCheck^^ And LS joining is perfect!

[@broefkip]

Going to LS twitch, turn ADblocker off, watch it live, go to bed. Next day go to Dom KZbin, Turn ADblock off, start the episode, leave a like and comment and move on with the day. It's pretty much a ritual at this point, this way I feel like I can support both equally.

[@billybobbobson3797]

Just donate money and keep adblock. Ads are cancer

[@broefkip]

@@billybobbobson3797 I'm subbed

[@garagavia]

Its great to have LS as a host of this show

[@jonahmckeown994]

Last time I was this early Hashinshin was only the most delusional man on Twitch.

[@MadBuddhaAbuser]

Cloud9 as a whole Org is great at scouting in all the games they support. Their probably the Org who turns the most rookies into superstars.

[@skarm7780]

T1 is like right there

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Just wait until they unleaded fudge. They don't have a free import slot but the kid was shitting on top laners at worlds when he played for an oce team. Destiny (support for Origen) also played in that team but fudge was solo double killing at worlds including a clean solo kill on Wunder

[@lukenuke8991]

Whats the over/under line set at for ls complaining about proview not being in this split?

[@javenmiguel]

At 26:55 it looked like Dgon was visibly frustrated with Dom cutting him off for like the 10th time xD

[@MRxDBT]

With LS thsi show agined alot of quality

[@scottgill2643]

The show lost a bit of diversity in content, but at the moment, NA LCS is a festival for flaming.

[@felhasznalonevXD]

Well I like him, but 40% of the time dom does the talking and he just says he agrees and thats all xdd

[@JepiiiRa]

@@felhasznalonevXD I mean yeah, but its mostly cuz Dom and LS share the same mindset about the game. Why should he repeat what Dom said before

[@gregoryoliff7887]

Can someone explain to LS that he's got his linemen mixed up? Frontline are offensive linemen in the correct metaphor because they're protecting the quarterback (Backline). A defensive linemen would be someone who can dive the backline and ignore the Frontline (E.g. Camille)

[@chriscobi634]

@5:57 LS reaction after watching that clip, meme incoming.

[@eadfshedwdenen9170]

banger video

[@swaggpappi1130]

I was wanting to say in response to LS malding about the format being unfair to the finals team who hasn’t lost that maybe finals could be a “best of 7” where that team starts a game up and max total games would be 6 compared to 5 just in case time is the concern. Do they read comments here or post and forget?

[@ynkruger2]

how can i listen to this and the crackdown podcast on my phone on my way to work

[@mariusweber4990]

Hell yeah, let's go!

[@MisterBee]

Are there vods anywhere of those games that Max smurfed in? I’d like to watch them!!

[@jasonsnitch7208]

MisterBee academy 100t look in the LoL twitch vods should find them

[@nickbohnlein634]

Dom was just about to give us a list of the talented players, got interrupted and never came back to it :(

[@chasewishard2013]

Facecheck is my favorite podcast. Best hosts of any league content.

[@lifelesslife2651]

I never expected na and talent to be put in one sentence

[@luminous3558]

Its actually so sad to see all these korean top talents just fall off so hard after their initial success.

[@kiirei1130]

Na is just a retirement home for Koreans. It jus inevitable

[@TetraHD93]

Dom: Says something Ls: Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah

[@V1PeRHeAd]

Can someone link the vod of max smurfing

[@alejandrolobatocantos8401]

Why no tier list today??

[@Petrock2]

Damn it said released 18 seconds ago

[@rhyestripes6059]

Hey

[@Nnothingg-]

Inception

[@imsorrythankyouplease7613]

If I have 110 ping, should I just switch hobbies to chess or powerlifting or heroine?

[@rottenpotato4399]

Start with coke

[@amadeux5471]

The fact that we have the Lost to Shopkeeper meme in contrast to Dota 2 having literal game changing item buys like when Topson bought Diffusal Blade to counter Bristleback in Ti 9 says *a lot*

[@kingl4d602]

24:02 "Nice!"

[@noahmoody4568]

Much love to MaxWaldo his stream is BLOWING UP too

[@holiday-smith]

spit in my cereal boys

[@Hot_Soupp]

Didn't Licorice build Liandrys on GP?

[@Thehankstah]

I love ls holy shit this show is so gas

[@Oratorio426]

If you include the auto's on aphelios turret it's 10 auto's missed on the nexus

[@ItsthePfitz]

I love that the people give the huge sub-button-fuck-you to rito! Go Dom!

[@Rayon811]

YOOO, DOM, WHOS WORSE SOLIGO OR RYOMA?

[@iamcrazypeople6961]

I am focusing who NA player plays in LPL “ LS said?

[@patriksoderberg867]

My only thought is why not borus on the dancing funeral thing?

[@keppokappa878]

does someone know which games max waldo played for 100T next ?

[@PrussianLoL]

Their series vs Maryville

[@yems7865]

Would love an Eu section with this line up :OOO

[@TheGreatDrummerLevi]

wtf was that first clip. I agree with LS that should be investigated for wintrading lol

[@charlewill9346]

No it wasn’t wintrade. The DMO adc has 75% crit AND elder. The fact that he like autoed 6 times on LWX and didn’t get any crit had a 0.5% of happening. I criticized DOM on this when he said that it was the worst play but he deleted my comment lul.

[@veriityx]

Charle Will bro all he had to do was auto the nexus why does it matter if he has crit, he should hit nexus to end instead of fighting the aphelios lmao

[@charlewill9346]

Verity It’s so pathetic that everyone thinks they are smarter than these pro players. They know as much as you do that auto the nexus will lead to a win but you also have to know the adc had 75% crit AND elder at the same time. Just watch the first auto he did on LWX. He also know that it would normally take just 2 autos to finish him up but he was so unlucky.

[@veriityx]

Charle Will then why not just end the game? LMFAO the luck doesn’t matter when u have a guaranteed win, he wanted an extra kill and he lost the game because of it

[@Thomas-sr2oq]

@@charlewill9346 you give pro players too much credit lmao, Fragas is a challenger level player and he looks like a dirty fucking inter everytime he plays

[@blackbeanburger3357]

after these playoffs... it feels like at least a 1/3 of the players in LCS would have no chance in hell of making a pro team in LEC

[@mustaqimhadi6381]

Is the grf tarzan’s redemption rush on olaf dead or whut?

[@neptune1003]

it was dead after inspired played big dick olaf with warrior + cleaver on stage

[@musepie6540]

@@neptune1003 nah, the interction got nefed

[@henryrivera3082]

We early today bois

[@NikoStr8]

whats the name of Max ID on NA ?

[@undo8558]

NA AMERICAN , i think

[@zarlei6048]

Does anyone know who the Europeans are that are in eastern teams? The German and French guy.

[@Flynnly]

Shernfire hits challenger consistently in korea

[@piperfree4271]

That beginning clip was like a silver cait play wtf

[@Cyrentic]

It actually hurts to look at that clip. The nexus is like half the screen, how??

[@scottgill2643]

WEEKLY REMINDER TO HIT THE NEXUS

[@aspiwri664]

LPL good rest of the world bad kappa

[@veriityx]

Aspi Wri it’s a bottom team lmao. TES/IG/JDG still winning worlds lmao

[@TheHelixworld]

That's not silver, even silvers have the desire to win games, thats a bot game where all the actual players DC and the bots are trying to let them reconnect to get a win.

[@sushyisama]

Great ep, but wanted to point this out ... Dgon is too quiet in this mix... had to up my volume for him ..

[@FunicularJuggling]

Forget what you know about mobile games.

[@odawg5913]

But Dom, if it's all-ins and everyone dies, then you don't need the Warmog passive ;)

[@TheAjm6207]

They also didnt mention him killing the minion instead of focusing nexus or enemy players .....

[@Thomas-sr2oq]

how the fuck is that guy challenger, he didn't even need to kite at all he literally just had to auto

[@bigtik5233]

Dom admitting he recruited Quas... Probably regrets that one a bit

[@JesperRoos]

why

[@bigtik5233]

Jesper Roos Quas was definition of “mental boom” I’d just google it... Dom has talked about it before in the past

[@frederickbarbarossa7961]

14:10 CLG are the reverse S04.

[@powerfuljones]

Bwipo played Camille into Karma

[@krystofpisa6531]

no tierlist :(

[@sh4nn4ro]

Its actually 9 autos from cait in total. my brain, my eyes... why would u do that to me...

[@goodbye6967]

That 3am drop.

[@denipeni694]

Its 3pm

[@veriityx]

Deni Peni timezones

[@denipeni694]

@@veriityx no idiot it was 3pm

[@nathanricher5752]

so much better with no loco

[@mer-jean]

Dom : what do you think about this LS? LS : well uhmm, hahaha, you see the thing is, i talk about this on stream all the time, and people were calling me, its hard, i mean NA haha, you go first.

[@TheMightyBosstone]

Agreed, they just don't scout NA talent and instead try to draw OP players from other regions and they fill it with role players to support them. Only they scout players that have already achieved their goals and don't have that new player drive and mentality.

[@iamcrazypeople6961]

scout is not NA talent, he is korean or Korean Chinese talents

[@pacman3743]

55:00 that didnt age well

[@milkman2266]

I think the argument for the clip of DMO at the start is that he needed to balance autos between LWX and the nexus because he needed to lifesteal off aphelios. If he just hard commited to autoing the nexus he would've died way sooner because you dont lifesteal off the nexus.

[@morbiusfacebooklive]

Nope he couldve ended before dying so no point trying to lifesteal.

[@zhangjeffery1326]

I saw that argument and my brain melted. Caitlyn can five shot nexus no problem also he aa him 6 times with the nexus on two hits so there is no excuse to do that. Plus he was on full hp when he aa lwx once so idk why that argue meant even matters

[@iamslf]

Imagine if C9 and TL both lose their series. Wouldn’t that be something.

[@jorgelenny47]

I guess he went sprit visage because of soraka, but still, the righteous glory doesnt make any sense

[@akave5774]

Dom why dont you and ls make a scouting company that gets fair contracts for players and gets the right players in?

[@liamfell3083]

Let's go doodes

[@efe_efe_al_15]

GG worlds as 3RD seed my dudes

[@haximnida]

Yep that first clip ruined that mental

[@otaserus]

DGon I just wanna say, don't get discouraged when the two of them ignore the hardships of running a team and all that. All three of you are right, in LS and Dom in that this simply isn't good enough and you in the fact that it's difficult to do better. Awesome podcast once again!

[@NDtoker]

anyone.know that max guys in game name

[@forestlaw7299]

NA America is his NA ign. Korean is mr Waldo.

[@ReizoM]

Start a scouting network, sell results of your research to teams, 🤑🤑🤑🤑

[@jasonchen4807]

If they are this incompetent, not sure they're even interested in that at this point.

[@benisvoy9367]

@@jasonchen4807 Amen, sadly.

[@luminous3558]

LS is already telling every team that wants to listen about all the insanely talented young players he knows about but they never listen. He knew about so many players that would end up playing on top tier korean teams a long time before they got scouted and nobody approached them. He talked about Khan's crazy laning many times on stream and then longzhu eventually picked him up and they won LCK and went decently far in worlds. The teams really don't want to trust someone else's judgement even if they know a ton more about the game and have a wider view of the scene. They would much rather hire a mediocre player that they found themselves.

[@KiraScofield]

Wtf happened to loco

[@Belmaunt]

Dammit LS. Did you learn to speak English in Korea?? 😂

[@GoznerPeter]

2 teams from NA is more than enough.

[@markfarmer7534]

I think you keep the swifties if you build randuins because their entire team has at least 1 slow except Morde, who has rylai's . They have an ashe so, I do think randuins is a really solid investment, but if you want merc treads, I'd get dead man's first. I'd rather see a tiamat and a phage than a warmog's here. If you're going to build a shit item, at least make it a fun one like protobelt. IF YOU DON'T BUILD ARMOR AND MR MORDEKAISER AND TRUNDLE CAN'T STEAL THEM, DUH!

[@XBruceXD]

No one notices that the Lux could have autoed the nexus to help end the game...

[@frostyaces4103]

I don't understand, even in silver I never see people build Warmogs until they know it will put them at 3k health and yet pros are just wasting money making it rain on Boris or something

[@yhlee1205]

Covid carried that game

[@awareclueless]

DGON is too quiet when dom is slightly flaming anyone i need to turn it down and up again for dgon.

[@JncID10T]

Why exactly was morello bad on Kennen? Me personally if I’m leaning against Morde I want to rush anti heal immediately, but with Morde healing, trundle healing plus visage,Ashe healing and Pyke in stealth healing I’m not sure what’s so funny that he’s trying to prevent that? Is it just not necessary cuz his damage is just that strong when itemized correctly or what?

[@LeopardTheGreat]

Morello is 40% reduced healing, and overall has very weak stats. Against heavy healing it can make sense, and it has synergy with Liandry's if built right, but overall you lose too much damage rushing Morello to be relevant. Being able to catch and then kill Ashe/Pyke has way more value than 40% healing reduction. Also, the extra magic pen is irrelevant into merc treads. Protobelt/Morello makes Kennen's damage very weak, and without Zhonya's he dies far too early in the fight to make a difference.

[@maximillionboettcher4308]

i paused the video at 3 minutes and walked away from my computer. whos that much of a bonobo that they make 5 autos on a player and not a single auto on the 1hp nexus

[@tomatofarmerlarry3331]

I used to main lich bane orianna in season 6 and it was a godly item in soloq, not only the insane split push but it gave you enough dmg to kill people with a Q W auto. Personally I think it's underrated as hell.

[@deadbygaming9827]

iwd the washed up semi pro crackhead we all know and love :) keep up the good work and awsome content dude

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Silver 2

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Silver 2

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Silver 2

[@woozywitanuzi6208]

Silver 2

[@deadbygaming9827]

@@woozywitanuzi6208 is iron 5