🛑 AMD Will DESTROY Intel With This... 😱

► framechasers.org/ - Discord and Support
► framechasers.o... - Consulting
► framechasers.o... - Max OC Bundles
► / chasersframe - Twitter
► kick.com/frame... - Stream
► ... - Instagram
Join the community over on Kick and discord to talk tech and play some games with fellow frame chasers Saturdays 12PM PST.
#DDR5 #AMD #Warzone

[@testtube173]

I think something that gets overlooked in the intel vs amd debate is that video games suck ass now a days.

[@bigturkey1]

ive been going through my game library playing all the games ive been hoarding for 10 years. yesterday i played shadow warrior 2 from 2016 with my 4080 12900k. its a fun game, takes 6 hours to complete and its taken me 8 years to get to it.

[@gdbroque]

Lmao, good point

[@shoryuag]

My setup still can't max out my monitor in Skyrim, and some of that is the 14700K not being able to feed the 4090 fast enough. The other part is the 4090 not being capable enough when not CPU-bound lol

[@griffin1366]

Video games have sucked since about 2012. A few exceptions here and there.

[@griffin1366]

@@shoryuag That is entirely engine / mod dependent. I don't know Skyrim specifically but older games tend to use just 2-4 cores.

[@cam_bro]

And how many generations of CPUs did Intel milk before AMD brought ryzen? If it wasn't for AMD, we would probably still be paying $600 for a 4 core cpu

[@jmtake85]

which 4 core consumer CPU you pay for $600? stop laying you piggy

[@Patrick73787]

Intel innovates way more than AMD and NVidia combined. Think about Optane memory, Thread Director, Foveros packaging, EMIB interconnect, Tile based CPUs, Thunderbolt 5 and Silicon photonics.

[@pav1u]

keeping my golden 5800x3d for years, not a single excuse to upgrade!

[@jmtake85]

0 reason to upgrade !! I still use 2700x and 11700k one for office work and one for gaming.

[@derenbong6060]

It’s the cost Jufes, HBM is helluva expensive, TSMC 3D stacking is also expensive, one thing going for Intel is that their Foveros 3D packaging is cheaper than TSMC’s 3D packaging,

[@russellebenton]

Intel - to be fair - is taking the biggest risks of them all. New plant in america Deciding they are going to start making discreet GPUs drspite being 4-5 years behind and rapidly closing that to 2 years behind.

[@HoldinContempt]

Discreet GPU's are not a risk at all. AMD's drivers are atrociously bad. All intel has to do is have better drivers than AMD and they will immediately eat their entire market share and then start chipping away at nividia's market-share. Intel's gaming drivers are still trash but their productivity drivers are already miles ahead of AMD and they are even slightly better than nvidia in some programs. Most of the demand/pricing of nvidia GPU's is not even video games, its running CAD/video editing software. So even if a dedicated intel GPU was as bad as AMD in games for the next 10 years but it was equivalent to nvidia in prosumer applications it would still sell extremely well and make intel billions.

[@russellebenton]

@HoldinContempt tell that to Intel who sells every single GPU for 3 years now at a loss.

[@radugrigoras]

AMDs problem is no matter how good they are for consumers they need to convince the AIBs of the same. Why design a god CPU or GPU if all you get are crap mobos and GPU designs that go into budget laptops and desktops. Just remember boys and girls gamers are a very small fraction of the PC market, the market is enterprise, schools, government, banking, hospitals etc, places that replace thousands of units every year. AMD is on the up in the server space because intel fell behind, 2-3 gens won’t hurt Intel because that’s only one refresh cycle for the customer. Those customers are waiting for intel to come up with something competitive to switch back. It’s only a blip. Just because AMDs share price has gone up doesn’t mean all that cash is in their account, they haven’t had too many new share offerings and most of their float was bought at sub 10$/share. So traders have all that money - or potential for money.

[@imAgentR]

AMD is just terrible at marketing. Like they could have a CPU that’s five times better than Intel, but the public won’t know that. They’ll have to find out from a tech tuber, which, for the masses is a slimmer chance for that to occur than the echo chamber of hardware nerds.

[@MyrKnof]

@@imAgentR Its about word of mouth. They cant do much more than announce and sponsor stuff. To build a good connection in peoples minds you need consistent good performance and experiences over several generations. Thats why its slowly getting there on the CPU side. GPU is doomed, nvidia has too much money, resources and walled gardens (lame proprietary tech) for AMD to ever be truly competitive.

[@ramair325]

@@imAgentR its not just marketing, its the constant issues people face with amd products. All it takes is one major issue to dissuade a customer from buying. 7000 series gpus is a fucking shit show. Drivers just keep on falling on their own faces over and over again. Cpu's have massive failure rate on top skews. (worst part of the failure rate is most customers just thing amd is trash because well it was for them when they had a defective cpu) I have worked with amd many times to resolve issues, and what i can tell you is amd's issues comes from up top, they are simply understaffed to do what needs doing. They cant even manage the bare minimums let alone do anything extra for one off issues people might face because you know amd never tested X Y Z with A B C.

[@radugrigoras]

@@imAgentR You can market all you want, the issue is WHO you are marketing to. They are currently marketing to gamers and talking all about performance. They need to be marketing to IT managers at all the top 500 companies, they need to be marketing to AIBs. When they do that right now all they have in their pocket is perf per watt. Reliability 0, support 0, remote admin support for firmware and bios updates etc 0. They were never able to beat those hurdles, so they went the console route. That’s where all their GPU sales numbers come from. CPU is mostly data centres. Straight to consumer sales are like 10% of their revenue. Gamers are in that 10%. The consumer is their Guinea pig. We test out their hardware, software, designs, features for free. Support? What support? Then a couple months later they take all that feedback and fix some of it and release an Epyc line or an Instinc GPU. Like Jufes said, they will never release anything industry shattering because they never take those risks, they are already risking a lot by even releasing a product in the first place- they have no idea if it will work or not, it’s all YOLO over there, even their prices they pull out of thin air at launch and then have to adjust.

[@miguelcollado5438]

AMD isn't doing Jack unless Intel pushes them, but Intel is now in a dormant state as whatever they design/release keeps blowing up in their faces...

[@OVERKILL_PINBALL]

Hold down CTRL and use the mouse wheel to increase font size in notepad

[@Spr1ggan87]

Man 2004 was wild for advancement, you mentioned DOOM 3 but remember we got Far Cry 1, DOOM 3, and Half-Life 2 all in that year

[@Spr1ggan87]

@@maz5930 LMFAO no it isn't, doesn't even have a proper ending, character models look like dogshit, no innovation in game design. Far Cry destroys it in game world, DOOM 3 destroys it in atmosphere and lighting, and Half-Life 2 visually destroys it across the board, not to mention the superior physics, characters, and writing. Meanwhile Halo 1 and 2 writing = this race are called the elite race, that race are called the grunt race, and that race are called the prophet race lmfao.

[@domainmojo2162]

@@maz5930 Halo is utter kak. Never got into it. It's a game for kids. It's too "cutesy" and the cringe-factor is through the roof. Those other games are for adults. (anyway, we're talking PC games here) @Spr1ggan87 Not to mention- the other impressive heavyweight graphics-wise, besides HL2- FarCry 1 with it's amazing ability to render such lush and "life-like" foilage at that time. Was a game-changer for modern gaming in that department..

[@domainmojo2162]

@@maz5930 Blabber on. Go and spar with your peers.

[@GreatnessRD]

So basically, AMD became Intel with the 14+++ meme. Lulz

[@OverseerPC-Hardware]

That DOOM 3 reference, Jufes.. you are so right on that money! I was so amazed by that flashlight effect, and I think that was one of the games I've played that feature in-game cut scenes (instead of the standard CGI/cinematic cut-scenes back then)

[@shadowarez1337]

I remember back in the day getting ahold of the dev copy of the game while in College showing my rig back then to the class how you had to use CMD to compile the game into something playable.

[@mimu9599]

AMD is also too stupid to copy the NVidia solutions......AMD is not a real Challenger for Nvidia - think they laugh about them.

[@lhl]

"I don't know why they don't" - hmm, could it be because they are selling all their CoWoS capacity they have on MI300X at $20K/pop and the number of gamers that would be willing to pay that is effectively zero? Blaming the product pipeline on techtubers when it's so simply explained by, you know basic markets and economics is in your phrasing, some most "herpa derpa" takes I've seen recently (and I hang out on Twitter and Reddit all day), so congrats on that i guess.

[@Wobbothe3rd]

The SteamDeck was sucessful but not THAT big, according to Valve's own data more people have 4090s than SteamDecks!

[@johnpaulbacon8320]

Thanks for this interesting reminder of how tech could be and how it is right now. The old adage of Risk and Reward is still true and probably will stay true for all of time. I'm thinking AMD is more focused taking risk's now with AI then not taking risk without AI.

[@Marcavian]

History has taught us, take AMD information with a grain of salt…

[@MadClowdz]

Biggest reason we will be in worse gamer purgatory for the foreseeable future: DEI

[@jigglejaggle4732]

That applies to everything sadly, i agree

[@heatsink9198]

4:23 Zen 2 did 1800FCLK, Zen 3 did 2000FCLk and now Zen 4 does 2200 FCLK.

[@PiotrSzaajdewicz]

2200 fclk is god bin most do 2133 2167

[@connorharris1900]

AMD needs to stick to the threadripper platform and give it a high clock CCD and fix the infinity fabric like you said. They would have been killing games and HEDT with a single platform. but no. For GPU’s i’m hoping for big improvements. still can’t play cod max out at 4k+ & 240hz. I don’t care if it’s AMD or nvidia but they need to make a double sided Card. mirror the socket on the other side and the computer will detect it as a single gpu. twice the performance bam with none of the legacy issues. good vids man. i need more.

[@connorharris1900]

@@iLegionaire3755 v cache is cool. although i respectfully disagree that 3d stacking is the way to go. putting RAM on die in between the chip lets is the most logical. although I don’t get why they haven’t tried that. I forget what they call it but i agree that threadripper is best for all types of computer users, AMD just needs to focus more and improve its weaknesses because it’s a solid platform to build on.

[@mortifyedpenguin]

You are 1000% correct. You have to take risks to make money. Companies have to get out of their comfort zone. The Steam Desktop OS was a big failure but, that didn't stop them from learning and making a better product.

[@tester12z]

Jufas...what are your thoughts on this Hardware Unboxed video released 2hrs ago titled, "The Best CPUs for Gaming", showing the 7800X3D destroying everything including Intel 14900K? 😂 Many people in the comments section declared that they've placed, or are placing orders based on this review. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.. 🤣 kzbin.info/www/bejne/bZi9Yn5qgL2ra5Isi=z7_2mFdOZg1XphvG

[@MichaelCO64]

Those that follow that review are people who will play 1080p with a 4090. I rest my case 😀

[@vincentvega3093]

AMD won't invent because intel is not challenging them my dude

[@Wobbothe3rd]

Intel has more market share and is still beating AMD in gaming performance. Keep coping.

[@tempusfugit5388]

Intel has way more market share than AMD, they even stole the mid range market from them, who tf buys a 6c12t when you can get a 13600kf for about the same price.

[@florinszasz5506]

​@@tempusfugit5388id depends where u live

[@ChrisAzure]

​@@iLegionaire3755 you're still in the time when more GHz is faster...you really need an update.

[@weswesotrashed3754]

I asked Moores law is dead about that and he fricken spoke around it he didn't even answer my question I even payed for the question What would happen if AMD add 2 512 mb/1gb HMB chips to the CPU, we wouldn't have a temp issue but what would perf be like, he just said they mostly likely wont do it because AI I want to ask and about that.

[@nickfarley2268]

It is like asking for a Ferrari to add Tank treads. HBM is expensive, in short supply and not a good fit for cpus. CPUs don’t want high bandwidth they want low latency.

[@ChrisAzure]

HBM minimum size is 2Gb last time I was reading about it months ago.

[@weswesotrashed3754]

@@nickfarley2268 well how high latency is hbm? Sill we wouldn't have memory bandwidth issues that's why we have x3d

[@weswesotrashed3754]

@@ChrisAzure still 1 2gb hbm as L4 chache ig

[@kognak6640]

@@K31TH3R On CPU side it's probably required to have over 100 cores before HBM begins to show any kind of benefit over regular DRAM. It's built for very high parallelism, HBM3 has 16 64bit wide channels per package(total 1024bit wide), HBM2 has 8 128bit channels. ST depending gaming workloads are completely opposite what HBM is designed for. Maybe if you are running dozen games at once. It's great for GPUs though, every bigger GPU should have it if it didn't cost a lot more.

[@LorentGuimaraes]

Even though they are all corporations... I feel like Nvidia is a tech company first, who happens to be in business, AMD is a business first who happens to be in tech

[@bigcazza5260]

if i join ur community id fucken own it u listen to the basic stages of my music and u tune half the hardware i do if ur discord needs some ecu rips from ford au falcons im here?

[@pascaldifolco4611]

I ain't broke and my 7950X3D is more trustworthy than your 14900KS self destructing furnace :p

[@shrimpwalk8230]

@@iLegionaire3755 I'm an intel user myself, but doesn't delidding and stuff void warranty? That's not proper user procedure for using the CPU. If you have to risk damaging your CPU to use it properly, then he's correct.

[@XFXGX]

⁠@@iLegionaire3755you don’t even need to delid. Just a good aio and 13900k/ 14900k is chilling

[@XFXGX]

@@iLegionaire3755 me too, I wanted to get one but I’ll probably upgrade later on when they fix the instability issues completely, I have alderlake

[@Killerspaten]

What did Intel innovate recently? Apart from tons of ecores on their cpu's that noone except heavy multithread users need.

[@MaskedOG]

exactly what he said they wont take risk anymore.

[@Patrick73787]

Optane memory, Thread Director, Foveros packaging, EMIB interconnect, Tile based CPUs, Thunderbolt 5 and Silicon photonics. Intel innovates way more than AMD and NVidia combined.

[@jagenaudas8605]

naw. games today are so fuc**n real that you have to wait two gpu generations (3 with amd) to run it properly native 4k. just look at the graphics. f.e. alan wake 2, hellblade 2 ... awesome! like silent hill 3 back then. these games reach full potential years later without dlss. I would like to see nintendo takes the risk with a new f-zero with that graphics.

[@laz7354]

Love the interposer idea ...a-la Pentium Pro! THAT would RULE in gaming AND in pro work too!

[@fredygump5578]

This "zero innovation" rant is so lame!. The industry is under pressure to make incremental improvements to keep greedy consumers happy, which is more important than major innovation. For sure AMD and Intel schedule releases of tech, withholding the current state of the art as a guarantee that they always have an improvement for next year. They try to make as much money as possible on one set of tooling before they re-tool a factory to produce something new...and there is little incentive for one company to massively out-pace the other. Basic business.

[@drdfunk]

they can't make a 16c big cores, because of Amdahls law, and if the HBM was beside or not directly stacked, it would be too slow (my guess)

[@chrisgarner5765]

They should up core count in Chiclets to 16 cores and scrap the fabric for desktop less over 16 cores

[@Secondwind_TV]

Doom 3 Vanilla, hell yeah! ❤ Pentium 4 Extreme Edition 5.0+GHz single core power overwhelming. Forgot if I had the super expensive RDRAM or SDRAM

[@EndlessPlane]

You are going to get the exact same thing because amd is a server cpu company, not a gaming cpu company. Gamers get the scraps and leavings.

[@sasquatchcrew]

AMD is just saving time to develope their future technology, further.

[@alexburke4569]

Talking about risk, when creative assembly made the original Rome Total War that game literally made them go broke but it was so successful that SEGA became their publisher. And unfortunately they haven't made such an innovative game since then.

[@alexburke4569]

The development of the game made them go broke because they innovated it so much compared to previous games to be clear.

[@Am-gk3zq]

It’s not next gen you’re getting anything to do with the IF but it will be the generation after… is the big one for them.

[@butanding1987]

You're full of you know what. LOL.

[@medstud]

Give me the tldw, is my 7800X3D still safe as the baller gaming cpu or not?

[@worldwar208]

Until the 9800x3d comes out apparently it's supposed to support full overclocking

[@reloadingdontshoot1]

I'm on a 7800x3D + 7900xtx Nitro+, and am having an amazing gaming experience. Don't give a shit about RTX so got an AMD GPU to go with their CPU to use SAM :D

[@MadClowdz]

You can use resizable BAR with Intel and Nvidia.

[@RuanLFC]

Ive never seen someone chat so much shit and not back it AMD buyers broke but 7800x3d is top selling cpu in most countries on Amazon and high end is not trustworthy how when sales say the complete opposite what are you on about ?

[@vladsta3833]

Timmy mad

[@RuanLFC]

@@vladsta3833 facts over feelings notice best comeback you have is emotional and no evidence or facts

[@avon001]

Its not even the tubers. It's a business ideology called minimum feasible product. Its generally the best way to minimize outlay while maximizing profits. Basically all big business does this.

[@shadowarez1337]

Back in the scalapocalypse days i couldnt get a 5950x shipped had to get my bro to put his name/# in at Best Buy / Memory Express and it cost $1150+ shipping.

[@righteousone8454]

I am wondering about latency between 2 CCDs Exactly what you said, because cache is on both, but no monolithic cache The logic has been the same since 2 socket CPU motherboards. When you had x99 clone boards with two 12 core CPUs, or even 22 dual cores for 48 cores that can be a beast on paper, but you got that delay between 2 cpus, and literally running single cpu on same motherboard in many cases will get more FPS in games. Because CPUs need to communicate not just between each other, but between ram sticks too. Logic is basically the same with CCDs, you separate 2 things, you need a bridge and bridge is never faster than something on the same plane of the chip You require transfer speed, this is why when they moved IO from Intel chip resulted in greater latency in audio recording with chips like 12900k/13900k/14900k, while 9900k had better audio latency in recording equipment. Last chip that didn't move IO was 10900k AMD knows about the delay, they just don't care, because they understand most gamers have no clue what 1% or 0.1% lows are, they count average and max fps only. I was playing BF2042 other day and it was dipping into 30s because of bad Nvidia Game Ready Driver 555.99, and it was going from 270 to 30s, and that was unplayable after a while (and that is on RTX 4090). Went to 555.99 Studio Driver and all is fixed. The dips affect our perception of smoothness. I would take 220 FPS with no dips, than to have 350 fps with dips into 100s. We can always feel the difference in contrast. Very rarely we feel when fps is fluctuating between 300 and 250. The bigger the difference, the more you feel that dip.

[@ChrisAzure]

I think that AMD making a consumer CPU with HBM is not a problem, the problem is the lack of memeory expansion on one side and how Windows would manage HBM and DDR5 on the other side 🤔 but if both managed to make it work with the HBM clock speed lowered to make it more efficient and lower latency with at least 250 - 300 Gbps it would be perfect.

[@SKO713]

Doom 3? Quake 3 was the wtf considering it was competitive. ...maybe I am too old. I do remember running the pre doom 3 leak thinking holy shit what is ever going to run this.

[@dianaalyssa8726]

True though we'll likely get the same, unless innovation happens and we get something better released but most of techtube would be fine with the same.

[@williamwoosleyiv6150]

AMD never aims far enough for the high end, then they over price it when it should be sold at a lower price to get priduct out...

[@fredbruno]

It's not because no one is buying their stuff. It's that they boast something that is not in reality. And stability issues are at the top. They need to focus on power management and software.

[@MyrKnof]

2:08 put it on the CCD? Higher latency, but larger shared cache.

[@beetwing]

Doom 3, i was thinking the same exact thing when you said the flashlight. It was massive!

[@Adreno23421]

mario RPG, so different, so advanced for that era

[@MikeZak101]

yeah, you said this 2 years ago to

[@toonnut1]

👍

[@AQWcameraman4]

Jufes, have you heard about the intel HBM cpu's or their cpus with L4 cache? i know you dont do reviews but it could be awesome to see some benches using these exotic cpu's and quite a flex. Xeon CPU MAX 9462 is the HBM one with 64GB "cache" and the i7 5775C has some decent cache too and the Xeon E7-8893 v3, 45 MB L3 cache quad core with a 140w tdp and quad channel DDR4

[@FrameChasers]

Who’s gonna buy it, lol

[@AQWcameraman4]

@@FrameChasers how are u gonna compete without 64gb hbm?

[@ChrisAzure]

The cheapest I have seen that Xeon Max 9462 is close to $5,500

[@vashx47]

He's little Seth in Superbad😂

[@Personalinfo404]

You're*

[@blueeyednick]

big facts

[@nick-dogg]

cocka doodle doo!!!!

[@benderrobo7864]

2

[@bigcazza5260]

like an interposer or some shit suck me go buy arrow lake farming amdumb clicks sick of waiting for amdumbs to load finals when a 9700kf at 4.6ghz and ddr4 3800c14 does it fine

[@impuls60]

I really enjoy these kind of talks! I whish younger people understood the cpu business themselves instead of listening to medicore YT channels. Some of them even say that we dont need more compute. And in the next sentence they excuse themselves that they dont have time to play anymore. Guess what, that makes for a shit reviewer. You dont see the fps dipps/problems in certain games. Running benchmarks is nowhere close actual gameplay at high fps. None of them play high FPS games. Very few run more than 7000Mhz ram low latency on Intel systems. They're all outdated in their methology. Some started to show 0.1% lows buts its always with terrible ram and bad timings. Watching the big techtubers have become completely irrelewant at this point. I remember a time where pc was exciting and we got new experiences every gen, now its always miniscule 10-20%performance uptic in the lows. And AMD and Intel wonders why their sales are so bad.. The next big test of Intel will be their new cpu made on 3nm, Faverous tech, completely new architecture. Have Pat aimed for enough compute that we are willing to pay 1000usd for an Core 9 Ultra? I highly doubt it so it might flop..

[@jimmer411]

AMD socket longevity comes at the expense of innovation. I can't believe people actually praise them for this.

[@russellebenton]

Lol.

[@jimmer411]

Like how AMD renames a CPU from 2020 so they can claim even more longevity (5950X vs XT) on AM5? Or how they release a CPU for every miniscule price bracket (5700X3D, 5600X3D and 7900X3D for example) even tho nobody buys anything other than the 7800X3D and 7950X3D? Name 1 AMD GPU innovation that has become industry standard.

[@derderbederb]

1

[@magmetasour]

2

[@vladsta3833]

3

[@Feyenoord010Rotterdam]

Im a little jealous that you guys can count to three and it only took three people to achieve it 👏🏻

[@mariusjohannessen9626]

Team Intel or team AMD? The most important thing to do is wait for the next product announcement. Same thing with Nvida and AMD

[@Ex3LTheRaPiD]

well explained, holy shit

[@mikebruzzone9570]

In the CPU market Intel simply undercuts AMD in price by the TSMC performance margin add to take that margin gain in the channel selling at cost. AMD won't take the consumer market risk, AMD is broke, well under margin pressure currently, brand is not trustworthy well AMD from time to alienates their core consumer user base and users won't move to it, good observations. Intel would just take at margin away from AMD from an uber performance part it already happens in 3D and that happens in the wholesale trade before the part ever gets to the end buyer. mb

[@mikebruzzone9570]

Rocket Lake was all about dumping on AMD at cost. Rocket Lake a waste of sand sucked a lot of financial capital out of producers (OEMs/ODMs) and the channel and that is why Intel followed through. But the channel did sell RL through and RL remains cheap even in its secondary life from the original price at cost sale its all relative. mb

[@Doshi-lp4tn]

The transition from agp to pcie GPU was a yuge letdown if you already had a 9500 pro + so ati was getting returned hardware for a decade. 11thgen was too complicated for KZbinrs to review cuz it required effort. One button cinepoop didn't do the work for them.. try this.. run Jetstream benchmark with edge on 11th vs other CPU and browsers

[@derenbong6060]

If AMD could, they won’t even want to launch x3D chips,

[@davidszep3488]

AMD never fail to disappoint me

[@jessedavid8829]

Is there any way to fix the dips from the 7800x3d? It’s actually really annoying

[@jessedavid8829]

@@johnlong6197 I’m literally a tech nerd. I have zero issues in any game except cs2 so it might be a game issue.

[@worldwar208]

@@jessedavid8829 i had some freesync issues with stuttering for while couldnt figure out what it was only in rust i have never downloaded my monitors drivers for all the systems ive had i downloaded them and the went away also check and make sure your mouse polling rate is not above what the game supports