How the girl group market has shifted

Who were girl groups marketed to in the past? Who are they marketed to now? Let's take a look at different examples of girl groups through 2nd, 3rd and 4th gen to see what has changed and why it has changed.
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Intro song: TXT - Thursday’s child has far to go (instrumental)
Outro song: IVE - Dear Cupid (instrumental)
Timestamps:
0:00 intro
0:59 2nd gen: girl groups for men
3:56 3rd gen: girl groups for everyone
6:08 4th gen: girl groups for women
8:32 outro

[@winxmons4140]

2ne1 was so iconic. They were all considered conventionally "unattractive" yet managed to win such big achievements including "artist of the year".

[@notwerkinginthishouse8634]

I honestly hate yg, he ruined someones childhood & 2 groups. Also robbed off blinks. Such a creep.

[@Ditto938]

well even 3rd gen groups got big achievements like "Artist of the Year" and their achievements are comparatively more than 2nd gen.

[@arijeanz]

ive said this before and ill say it again: girl groups have always had and will always have more concept diversity and freedom than boy groups will ever have, and this is more true than ever now. BGs can't appeal to every gender and aspiration like GGs can, even though id like to see one try.

[@secretthirdthing22]

bts with their ‘everyman’ branding? though this is the only boy group i can think of, which proves your point lol

[@Kiy0me]

@@secretthirdthing22 BTS and txt do it well but these bgs are few and ggs take the lead in this case

[@laylamia]

Remember when boy group stans as recent as 2019 constantly bashed girl groups saying they only do cute and girl crush and that bgs do a multitude of different concepts?Now look at at the amount of boy groups doing the heavy EDM bad boy concept meanwhile in 4th gen alone we have Billlie doing the weird concept,Itzy doing the teen crush concept,NewJeans doing a sorta retro R&B concept,IVE doing a luxurious concept etc

[@yoonology]

BTS are the only boy group that comes to mind when I think of versatility and how they cater to every audience. Many people may not believe it but Army is just so diverse, with a healthy ratio of both men and women (obviously more women) enjoying their music, a good ratio of it, and many locals from outside excluded. They really broke all Boy group and Kpop stereotypes to be where they are now only for 4th gen BG to turn out… well.. the whole opposite.

[@babanaki8528]

I don't agree with this. It heavily depends on the specific group and the direction they have how diverse they are. To say that bgs can't aspire to a wider audience makes me think, that you don't know much about kpop as a whole. In the earlier gens it was bgs that had more variety in their concepts. So groups like BTS, SEVENTEEN, BIG BANG had and still have many men in their fandom. In 2nd and 3rd gen boy groups dominated the market. At the same time ggs of that era had less variety (e.g Twice cute concept, BP girl crush concept). The reason was mostly the lack of control these companies give to their female artists plus the "if it's not broke, don't fix it" mentality. Today things might be reversed and we see that more and more fans get into ggs, so they are the ones dominating 4th gen. At the end of the day the gender of the artists doesn't matter as much as general trends, music and how much people can relate to the message.

[@diana-fd7zm]

I would add a group like G idle too , especially their recent songs talk a lot about women’s independence and power

[@Iknowyouknovvweknowleeknow]

I was about to say that!! THEY ATE UP

[@ayanoitami7163]

agreed! I really like their concept

[@Inth3V0id]

Agreed! G idle has always been such an empowering gg 💕

[@sintura]

yeah i was thinking about it yesterday and im convinced g-i(dle) male fans are lesbians or pretend to like them LMFAOAOFADOFJOIS it's a group catered to the girls and gays for sure

[@dprdenny]

@@Iknowyouknovvweknowleeknow THEY DEVOURED THE WHOLE FUCKING PLATE

[@ItsLoHere]

I think NXDE is a good example of what a revival of a “sexy” concept would look like if any other group in 4th Gen took it on. “Sexy” being that grown women can feel good in their own bodies and not be judged for doing so. The biggest problem with what happened in 2nd Gen was MEN were organizing gg concepts and unfortunately a big handful of underaged idols were affected. ()I-dle literally chose the concept (actual clips of Soyeon giving the presentation to Cube), are all adults, and enjoyed themselves and the message they were spreading while doing it and THAT’S EMPOWERING.

[@tavox100xx]

Seee, pero también es una canción que más vende propaganda que algo interesante musicalmente. Overrrated

[@eugenekiri6522]

The best comment, thank you!! 🔥

[@notwerkinginthishouse8634]

@@tavox100xx says who?

[@Milkythefawn]

@@tavox100xx you can always tell when someone’s a man

[@tavox100xx]

@@Milkythefawn Hay canciones que se han hecho sin pretender ser tan forzado, por ejemplo en los MAMA lo que dijo estuvo más interesante que toda está canción.

[@BoomBoom-rb4iy]

Companies have noticed that women are more consistent in following their favorites groups (if you look at BGs sales that are targeted for a female audience they're much higher and the drops are very unlikely to happen ) whereas males are just looking for the next cuter younger girl group to follow for the upcoming year and moving on to another which makes it way less profitable than with a female oriented audience

[@sidney6522]

Possibly. Well my theory is that male audience outside South Korea AKA in the west dont listen to Kpop at all, because they deem it gay or something like that. So thats why boygroups are thriving because they are winning internationally big time. I think the companies somehow figured out that the men of the west think they are "too manly for this stuff" so they dont even bother and started to cater toward female audience. Other than that I think Twice has a lot of loyal male fans.

[@Juno1992]

I highly agree with you. Based from what I have seen, boy groups fans are more loyal than girl groups. At the very least, the parasocial relationship between them are at a different wavelength. It seems like boy groups are more intimate with their fans as compared to girl groups. Also, one of the reasons why boy groups have high physical sales is because of how dedicated their fans are into bulk buying their albums. With girl group fans, they oftentimes follow the trend and move on to the next trendy gg in the market. Mind you that most boy group fans are females. The only outlier here are those coming from the big 3 and 2nd to 3rd gen groups.

[@luzbiz9668]

you mean boy group stans are more consistent than girl group stans

[@dvwnte]

@@sidney6522 Not true at all 😂 I’m a guy and a huge multi Stan and I know other guys too… if you go to a twice concert in the USA apparently it’s ALOT of guys in the crowd , I went to see blackpink in Canada and there were equally as many men as women, like 50/50

[@sidney6522]

@@dvwnte Sorry I expressed myself poorly. Not all of course ... I am just generalizing things. You are an exception to the rule. Twice as I stated before is notorious for having a strong male audience. I am talking about the chance of a non-kpop male converting to a kpop fan. If you say you listens to Kpop as a male in the west .... people tend to think of you a certain way. Female fans on the other hand are forgiven by the generall public. Well thats my take on that. Where I live (Europe) its only 5% of male fans in our kpop. comunity.

[@layasreekumar9638]

The biggest reason the target audience shifted is because the companies understood women were more stable and loyal for a long time. They also focus on buying albums not just casually stream some music

[@mixievee]

I definitely agree with this. Women are more then likely to stan a group,buy up merch, concerts, fancalls, fansigns, stream, etc. Most male stans I know (not saying all), will listen occasionally and maybe go to a concert or fansign.

[@badadodgen]

Females really are more dedicated to their groups. But I believe with boy groups they are more on the more loyal side. I am a female carat myself

[@btsismyoxyjin6577]

@@badadodgen true

[@sseravity]

@@badadodgen true bc people who stan both bgs and ggs seem to be a little more loyal to the bgs

[@aceuxroo]

boy groups are also much more capable of fanservice. they mainly target the female audience in order to establish parasocial relationship and that's why bg stans are much more loyal. ggs seem to be more popular because they appeal to casual fans and general public but does not garner that much loyal fans as bgs can with exception of some ggs though

[@sIumps]

i really appreciate how confident and powerful female idols and their music have become. they will surely just get greater from here onwards. i loved your explanation btw

[@AB-cp5fn]

They are still girls who are starving themselves.

[@sIumps]

@@AB-cp5fn there are tons of males idols who starve themselves too, it has probably become more common among them as the years have gone by. that is something that will probably never change unless the asian beauty standards change. although companies put idols on terribly unhealthy diets, society is the root of that issue.

[@AB-cp5fn]

@@sIumps I didn't understand why the clarification that male idols do too, but yes, of course, usually less than female idols, but yes. The comment goes to the false criterion of empowerment, they show them as beautiful and healthy girls and then behind them are malnourished with possible disorders. Yes; a lot of men too. They are not powerful as you say in your comment, they are still slaves to their system.

[@anunknownperson4018]

@@sIumps yes, BTS group look healthy ngl, but others groups suffer more just bc they aren’t international famous

[@midapita]

And these concepts are… made by men lmao

[@bialk0]

I felt all these shifts. When I started being interested in kpop, 2nd gen's prime was coming to an end and the first 3rd gen groups were forming and debuting. At first, I couldn't watch some of the 2nd gen girl group mvs and I was only listening to the songs, because the way the mvs were shot was making me kinda uncomfortable. After some time, I realized that I wasn't the target, even though I like women. I was most engaged in kpop during the 3rd gen but I didn't realize the group's concept changed to be suitable for everyone up until now, when I can clearly see that it shifted to be appealing for girls/women and I'm sooo happy the girl groups are ruling right now, even though the idols debuting are 10 and more years younger than me. I'm just a casual listener right now, so it's okay.

[@makotohideki9509]

Agree, I started listening kpop in 2013 but I became a fan during 2014-2015 at that time 3gen was starting, and the only girl group I knew it was Red Velvet (then I started listening twice and GFriend) but because I wanted to know more about kpop, I started looking for 2gen groups, but at that time I used to prefer boy groups, I try hard to like gg but they just weren't for me, of course there are song of 2gen gg I like, and the only 2gen group I really stand was 2ne1, at that time not many female groups were doing that, and also f(x) because It felt different of what other groups did, and without the sexiness, mini skirts, sexualization of the group. But know most of the groups I listen are gg, specially 4gen, I believe 4gen gg are better than bg. All the boy groups that debuted lately feels the same, the only I can said it's a little bit different is txt and maybe the Boyz they been trying with different styles and concepts.

[@notValerieJeanA]

I agree. I know the new gen are so young, but I think what they're trying to show is you can be empowered regardless of age, even if you're very young. And that's okay. It should be. 🥰

[@anunknownperson4018]

@@notValerieJeanA recently i got myself involve in kpop and yes they are more appealing to the female audience bc they tend to go crazy😂. Although i do see fans fighting against the kpop industry about dieting.. hopefully every idol gets to be healthy from now on

[@raya7390]

They are ao young and successful and here I am still finding purpose in life🥴🥴🥴

[@KarisaBear]

I feel like girls generation and red velvet have always been really good at having a balance between male and female fans

[@danaibero7118]

Well, I think it was Yuri who said that SNSD always had MORE female fans than male fans.

[@auliaa1360]

IKR!! SM team's really great targeting both male and female on their artists

[@ONLY1JAYJAY]

i honestly HATTTEEE the fact a that most to all boy groups have had the same concept. no one does cute, royal, elegant, sexy, magical, or anything. it’s just typical “boy crush” and that’s why i literally only like nu’est. they had a cute song called “love me” which was a cute/teen love concept, and it got my attention, and they also had elegant concepts too which stood out to me immensely. i also like TNF(T1419), but i like their personality’s more than music at this point since they aren’t doing anything new. it’s honestly really a shame. if anyone can recommend a new BG to me, pls do.

[@Kiy0me]

I think txt is a good bg ,they have done the rock music , cute music ,boy crush and many more

[@jmnulph8329]

Kingdom is the only one I can think of that stood out to me lately. They do a royalty concept that changes which king they focus on each comeback.

[@whatisilyionlyknowipurpleyou]

you mean in 4th gen right? I think lots of 3rd gen groups are still staying versatile and only a spoonful of 4th gen groups are outside of the boy crush category as their brand

[@Danastolemyheart]

Idk abt enhypen but I loved their concept it’s like dark horror vampires and Wtv it’s really enjoyable and also made some songs that are cute

[@veroniica]

@@Danastolemyheart they're nothing special they're just like any other bg

[@glossnwild]

Yesss. The most evident example of this shift to catering toward a female audience is Twice. I remember how turned off i was by twice's early comebacks because of how male-centered everything was. It was unsettling for me to watch women act naive and cute, dressed in revealing clothes with child-like songs for that same audience. The company made it very evident who twice’s target audience was from the jump and it's no suprise that they have garnered a male-dominated fandom. Then "fancy" happened, and that was their big shift. Their choreo increased in difficulty, their sound matured, and the girls came with a new wave of fierceness that they had never shown before. I think this was JYP's way of capitalizing on the international market by appealing to women worldwide (the same way blackpink did) and it really worked. Since this shift, you can tell that they have kept their cuteness to maintain their original male audience but continue to mature their sound and perform more complex performance styles to obtain a female audience.

[@brennathecatlover4360]

Bruh there’s nothing wrong with twice older songs

[@isgardenia1028]

Yes I agree I always remember they were so wild and loud on their tour in America (like Sana's sexy dance) I was shocked lol

[@glossnwild]

@@isgardenia1028 oh i loved her for that

[@barrymckockiner8737]

Twice started wearing revealing clothes after the concept change (Fancy), the last two CBs have been the most revealing. Also 'childlike songs' is not a fair characterisation. Upbeat cheerful cute yes. Purepop exists for the male audience who look for escapism in entertainment there is nothing wrong with that. Besides Twice were at their best during those concepts, CBs like knock knock which get the most hate for the concept are what the members act like IRL. The mature/fierce concept feels disingenuous like they are putting on an act. Not to mention there is nothing unique about Twice anymore as they are doing what every other group is. You can say they can't switch concepts back as they are grownup now that's a fair argument. But the switch was too early and proved to be a bad move. The market is too saturated now and I don't see Twice hitting their peak numbers in terms of music show wins. But hey at least we've got Time To Twice where it feels like old Twice.

[@glossnwild]

@@barrymckockiner8737 I appreciate the long comment. Twice definitely stands as a form of escapism for men and my point is that there are many issues I have, as a woman, with the type of content they have produced to cater to a male audience. (I have more issues than I wrote here but this comment would be a novel if I wrote it out) In terms of clothes, they have become more revealing, but it is a non-issue now because they are well into adulthood. It also matches their more mature concept in recent years. I noted that their clothes were ‘revealing’ back then because that’s when their choice of outfit mattered the most. Their debut titled ‘ooh-ahh’ (was about sex with a inappropriate dance to match) was sung by 3 members who were minors (16, 16 and 17) and 5 members who were just 18. Twice was sexualized from the very beginning and as a debut, it was intended to set the tone for them. It makes sense to find that ‘unsettling’ as it was produced for a male audience. Also, I wouldn’t reduce all their older stuff to being ‘child-like’ but I think it is an accurate general descriptor. If I had used ‘youthful’ instead, it would convey the same point, but you probably wouldn't have corrected it. Cheerful and cute just appear like alternate descriptions for child-like things. This comment is getting too long but I think their newer concept fits them better and I love that they get to show off more of their performance skills! I think twice’s uniqueness is the fact that they have a specific set of 9 members with a dynamic that no other group has. Also wasn’t their latest album their best seller so I would argue that they’re actually at their best right now number-wise?

[@Michyeon]

I would disagree on some points. I think the worst male gaze concepts were issued beginning/mid 2010s with AOA, Girl's day, early Twice etc who are end 2nd gen/beginning 3rd gen. There were other groups in the 2nd gen that were marketed at everyone i'm thinking Miss A, late Wonder Girls, KARA, 4minutes. What's new is that female target concepts are now dominating the market. But tbh i feel like IVE for example is still very targeted to men even if it's more subtle, NewJeans even feels weird with the number of minors in that group. I would even argue that groups with futuristic concepts like aespa could cater to some men in gaming communities. I don't think the problem of idol sexualisation is solved as long as heavy diets, revealing clothes and minors are still all around the industry. But for sure it's getting better.

[@jjba3571]

Is funny how sm tried to gather that gaming community but gamming reaction was null, they dont like the concept, they dont like the idea of human trying to have avatars, they dont like the music... they wanted that juicy egames boom money but fail miserably They attract kpop fans that liked kpop before, like how gamers before never wanted to be related to otakus or comic fans... they dont wnat anytying with kpop fandom... they failed to see thT They amount of open mind geek is low hahahahah

[@dejavu6514]

Ive has a girl crush concept

[@sourlemon3337]

@@jjba3571 the gaming part of it would only appeal to gamers if they were actually in a game. Just coz they look like cartoony game characters doesn’t mean much. SM entertainment need to integrate them into a game. A crossover would do well

[@Vor567tez]

But why some ifans miss that there is Japan? It's another huge kpop market. Twice cute songs were fit for Japan , it's evident with there J line member and popularity. Meanwhile Itzy is for Western market thus non cute concept and it worked. Gfriend was popular in Korea but not in west even though they had neutral concept. Also Aspa concept is not too foreign Japan already has Miku, an AI idol.

[@rorococo.]

@@dejavu6514 There's nothing girl crush about IVE, they have a high teen, young chaebol girl concept.

[@vicm832]

i agree with everything you said and i’m so happy about this happening because i feel it made more room for artistry in girl group music. to me, 4th gen music is way more diverse and interesting to listen to, and i feel that happens because their main focus is not to come up with romantically appealing concepts anymore, which means they don’t have a lot of limitations when it comes to the type of music they can make. i believe that’s why girl groups have evolved so much in such a short time and i’m so in for it omg i swear

[@espeon871]

SAME!!

[@karinasnooodles_]

4th gen is definitely not diverse💀

[@vicm832]

@@karinasnooodles_ why not 💀

[@Milkythefawn]

I feel like some parts are still male gaze, just in different ways than before

[@shikiamabe1290]

gfriend's cute concepts werent really the "i want to look cute for a guy" type, their mvs were always focused on friendship, and their cuteness was showcased in natural way, not the aegyo/cutesy way

[@coolusername8578]

Yeah I agree, and the lyrics for their title tracks especially are pretty gender neutral. Anyone, no matter who they are, can relate and connect to their songs

[@notwerkinginthishouse8634]

@@coolusername8578 Wish i could know their choreos tho

[@ChloeBx]

@@notwerkinginthishouse8634 they can be really hard but I'm sure with a lot if practice you can do it !!!

[@newjeansfan238]

3rd gen, there were more various concepts in girlsbands targetting general public like Crayon pop, Orange Caramel with their wtf concept and Dreamcatcher with their dark fantasy and rock sound, then in 4th gen like Dreamcatcher, but in medium small companies we have Purple Kiss, Pixy, Pink Fantasy with more dark horror concept

[@soph132]

Aren’t Orange Caramel and Crayon Pop both 2nd gen?

[@dreaming_red]

Dreamcather is 3gen ryt?

[@newjeansfan238]

@@soph132 I count Orange caramel in 3rd gen, Orange caramel was a sub-unit of After school, After school is 2nd gen, Crayon pop 3rd gen. 2nd gen concept girlsband were cute or sexy or badass: SNSD vs Brown Eyed girls vs 2ne1 and 4minute

[@newjeansfan238]

@@dreaming_red Dreamcatcher debuted as Minx with cute concept before going with their dark fantasy concept and 3rd gen, i know kpop with 2nd gen which are SNSD, brown eyed girls, 2ne1, 4minute

[@newjeansfan238]

@@dreaming_red I re-watched the year when Dreamcatcher debuted and it's in 2017 3rd gen, 2nd gen when i knew kpop is in 2009

[@newjeansfan238]

And i forget even they are not rookie anymore (G)i-dle their target is totally women, they put feminist message in their song, mv and i love it specially Nxde, i thought of all women, women with a boyfriend and i thought of Goo Hara who died because of the threat of her ex-boyfriend releasing nxde of her

[@nataliearaujo3095]

Esse cara que a ameaçou deveria ter sido preso

[@Milkythefawn]

@@nataliearaujo3095 I agree. It’s horrifying that he was not arrested

[@madymontgomery7489]

Unfortunately female targeted marketing used to be centered around the idea that all women want in life is to be seen as desirable to men, and this model used to be fairly successful as it has historically been the social norm in a lot of cultures. Look to Victoria's Secret for example. However, in recent years that form of marketing has been getting phased out: Women are now being seen as whole and complete human beings that can have interests and hobbies that don't revolve around finding ways to be appealing to men. This was always the case of course, but finally marketing is reflecting that.

[@jjba3571]

Actually is cuz of sexist, lets not forget that many women enter the workforce in 1950 after wwii, before that was barely the case, so finances rely kn what men wanted to buy... woman now impact economy a lot, many ceo from old powerfull companies are cavemen that woman are better silent, they dont care .... is their marketing team that told them: hey boss fendy took all our bussiness cuz they sell actual sizes for all women not only 0, oh no, we have to pretend to care now... too late !!! Is never about actually caring, is about money showing them Women mzke a huge impact in kpop and almost ANY BUSSINESS yet they refused to accept that

[@padlily2485]

@@jjba3571 can u spell right

[@user-pi4qd8ik5i]

As a guy , do you think we want skinny girls ?

[@madymontgomery7489]

@@user-pi4qd8ik5i I'm not exactly sure if this is directed at me however I was not making a statement on what I personally believe men might find attractive or have found attractive.

[@Milkythefawn]

@@user-pi4qd8ik5i I mean, that’s kinda been pushed down everyone’s throat for at least 100 years.

[@starjreams]

i've noticed the shift too. the girl group i find most inspiring that wasn't mentioned was itzy bc among their early years of debut, i remember seeing them as very cool role models for girls (i still see them as that now).

[@helo9885]

Me too. During the 3rd gen, I listened to twice and red velvet, but didn't care for them as a group. I only liked and used to watch content of boy groups that I liked (a lot). But them with izone I started to enjoy watching their content and finally with itzy I became a gg Stan. They're really cool. Nowadays are nice bgs, but none of them really stand out for me like the new ggs

[@oopsydaizy]

Right! I almost forgot about them

[@mysterylover9546]

PAUSE. As a veteran Sone SNSD had a pretty mixed fan base since debut. You can watch their older performances and here the screams of female fans.

[@alien_fairy1973]

SNSD had female fans too , they had mostly Japanese female fanbase too, listen to their Japanese discography, dancing queen, into the new world and other songs that are definitely not male gazed

[@fangirlmode8705]

Before, they have more male fans, but now, they have more female fans. Majority of their male fans left them, but their female fans don't.

[@Kimberlim24]

I remember their 2011 comeback the boys, all I could hear was female audience from their performances, their concerts were full of women as well. I think since 2011, they started gaining massive female fans. As me, a sone here.

[@fangirlmode8705]

@@Kimberlim24 Yeah, that's true. During their early days. I am pretty certain that they have more male fans. But as the time passes on, they have more and more female fans.

[@ningbias]

I remember seeing a deviantart page of a female sone in 2011 so there was DEF a more mixed fanbase even back then and now I feel like sones are mostly lesbians 😭 I think all the het male fans got sent to retirement homes or got jobs

[@moomoobebe]

Thank you for this insightful video. I’m glad you mentioned Mamamoo. I am so grateful to them for always being themselves: awkward, silly, confident, anxious, proud, kind, grumpy, hungry, tired, happy, sad, honest. This kind of power, the power to freely be who we are, is something we all deserve.

[@Milkythefawn]

Hello fellow moomoo 💚

[@moomoobebe]

@@Milkythefawn Hello to you too! 💚

[@plskissfrog]

I love this vid and your explanation! I think its really cool to see groups like twice and gfriend because of their shift and evolution. specifically for twice because i know more about them, songs like cheer up and knock knock are cute but not really in the empowering way but i feel like maybe yes or yes is when it shifted? and then you see the difference in their attitude towards themselves and songs that are less “i have a crush and i hope you like me~~” and more like “this is how i feel.” i love seeing the growth of “cute” concepts over time it’s really cool :))) thanks for this vid!

[@plskissfrog]

ALSO you were so right about not wanting the ~boyfriend~ fantasy from bgs anymore like most of the 4th gen boy groups really dont seem to be selling that fantasy like skz and ateez and less so but still txt are not trying to “be our boyfriend” but rather doing concepts that are more intricate and different, i love to see it!

[@msj0015]

NewJeans literally has 78% female fans. The biggest female dominated fandom right now. They are the perfect role model and the Pioneer of Girl group ERA.

[@levitatingstan6526]

They aren’t pioneers of anything be fr, the high number of support of female fans came bc they’re of the same agency of bts and predebut Newjeans fans were expecting the “Plus Global Girlgroup” and willing to support anything that would came of it, it’s not surprising bc if you look at their fans 90% of them are armys or hybe stans

[@msj0015]

@@levitatingstan6526 LOL! If that was the case then why not other HYBE artists getting the same energy!? Stop giving this lame excuse everytime!

[@oopsydaizy]

@@levitatingstan6526 not true, they just have good, and catchy music

[@strawberrymilk607]

Yesss New Jeans have a fresh and relaxed quality to their songs, which I love! 💞 But... even though a large portion of the fandom is made up of female fans, I feel as though their company is trying to appeal to a certain male audience with the song Cookie :o Is that just me?

[@puujeelkhagva8575]

i am pretty sure red velvet has 80% female fans on Melon.

[@UsagiMimiChu]

Yes!! And I'm living for this. I wanna mention as a gen 2 unintentional girl crush pioneers: Brown Eyed Girls. They created music for themselves mostly, nothing seemed targeted to specific audiences, and when they did the sexy concept with abracadabra it was a huge bop. they even debuted in Japan, rare back then for Kpop groups, only the biggest. In a short video, Ga-in(BEG member and soloist) mentioned how she was surprised most of their fanbase had lots of women. Because the logic says that men would've liked a group of girls being sexy, but they were also confident and comfortable, showing control over the situation. That's something other women can relate and/or admire. Ga-in, as a soloist made a bunch of songs that could be considered feminist, since she was sexy but still talked about sensitive topics or how she was in control of her own body and choices, that she had to be comfortable and enjoy what she was doing. I think this is why she hasn't been doing much for the past years, she's been struggling with mental health and it needs to be prioritized to be able to create good songs and performances. The other women in BEG have been doing also solo activities in things they enjoy, like JeA doing that feminist song with IU and Moonbyul, or Narsha on variety shows and modeling, and Miryo as a streamer and being all cute at almost 40! Which I think is inspiring, no one thinks she should act cute at her age, but she feels more comfortable that way and I love that for her. Especially being the rapper.

[@michyblink]

I agree sm with what you explained in this vid, I guess this is why I love 3rd and 4th gen, but I'm not that much into 2nd gen. I'm actually glad this shifts happened, considering how so many new groups are releasing great music

[@heyma004]

Yes, same here

[@ichliebebaeumeweilbaum]

Wow I often say: for older groups I like boygroups more, for newer groups I'm definitely a girlgroup stan... This is probably why

[@rinpurpose8926]

same! for bgs i could just enjoy until 3rd gen, but for ggs i do mostly enjoy 4th gen

[@newjeansfan238]

In Hype boy's mv of New Jeans, we can see it target young girl with friend who enjoy and make jokes of men, messed up with men sport clothes in sport changing room! Even if there is also hetero love story, there is also lgbtq love story like in Hanni mv of Hype Boy and in Danielle and Haerin's story friend becoming lover

[@ridwaan_]

When you first said that 4th gen is marketed for woman i didn't belive it. but your reasonings is kinda understandable as if we look at some groups like nwjs ive and stayc i can just feel it as a girl specially nwjs it feels differnt from the music we used to hear from 3rd gen gg even now after twice's ttt i still can feel like they are their old ones even tho it was kind of cute and sexy mixed togather but you still can hear twice. I'm actually so happy ngl the music of 4th gen is getting better after years and as time went by there is alot of groups i'm looking up to their comebacks to see what they got to the table like txt nwjs stayc (i like beautifull monster dc what you wanna say) and mainly ENHYPEN

[@Kimberlim24]

As a girls generation and 2ne1 fan here, I definitely noticed the shift in the 4th Gen and I'm so happy for that. Although in the 2nd Gen, I'd say girls generation is a special case, because even though most of their hit songs were talking about men in a way, they had a massive female audience; thanks to this, they were extremely successful (touring back and forth, selling physical albums even more than boygroups, specially "the boys album", you can even tell by their fanchants full of female voices mostly).

[@Hy-BridAbroad]

Completely agree. The reason they became as massive as they were was because while, yes, they did have plenty of male fans, they also had just as many female fans.

[@tiffanychan3827]

@@Hy-BridAbroad Honestly I think a huge part of their popularity (speaking as a female SONE for over a decade) is how they presented themselves on variety shows. Oh! and Gee were the first songs I heard and they didn't quite sell me, but RDR was right up my alley so that intrigued me. But I definitely wouldn't have become as hardcore of a fan if I didn't watch a bunch of their variety shows, where they acted completely un-idol-like and unapologetically their chaotic selves. I fell in love with them for their personalities, and I think that's why SNSD and a lot of other 2nd gen girl groups frankly, always had a good amount of female fans. Even if their early music was clearly catered to a male audience, the members themselves were relatable to a female audience and seeing how successful they all are individually now, it's no wonder they are every female idol's idols.

[@whatisilyionlyknowipurpleyou]

GOSH YOU'RE SO RIGHT! I only got into kpop 2 years ago, while exploring all generations of music and the shifting is so dramatic, I can feel it all the shifts, its incredible. Maybe that's why I stan 3rd and 4th gen, wow. You completely opened my eyes, that makes so much sense....wow. I'm actually shook 😂 Wonderful video!

[@yoonology]

What I love about 2nd Gen was how diverse and versatile it was for each group. Sure, Girl groups were more marketed towards men but they didn’t stay in one concept and the music was just plainly amazing. I think 2nd gen really highlighted the wide range Girl Groups could be. 3rd gen was just as amazing, and to be honest Boy Groups were kore of the highlight during that era; Exo, BTS, Seventeen, Nct. Now this new era of 4th gen groups, girl groups are highlighted again because 4th gen Boy groups other than 3rd gen are actually really terrible in terms of music and creativity.

[@Eris_Norregard]

Excuse you, there are many amazing 4th gen bgs with versatile concepts. Ateez with their sci-fi/dystopian storyline and hard asf sound. Txt do the cute guys concept pretty well, but they do change it a lot so it doesn't become boring. Stray Kids also avoid the typical "boyfriend fantasy" - I mean they have basically no songs about romance, they mostly talk about finding yourself, and have gained a sizeable male audience as a result. I could even mention groups like OnlyOneOf, that specialize in the sexy, sensual music, and have storylines about queer relationships in their MVs.

[@gomezcried]

@@Eris_Norregard exactly

[@marth5326]

this was so intersting omgggg. I've been thinking a lot of the male & female gaze but didn't know how to relate it properly to kpop, but you did it perfectly. ty for this!!

[@silverrain824]

you explained it very well... especially the vast difference of concepts of 2nd and 4th gen.. i was in awe omg

[@newjeansfan238]

And i can mention in 4th gen New Jeans, their target is teen girl except for cookie, the rest of the song and mv is for teen girl and also Generation Y like me who are nostalgic about 2000s. And also Ive their song is for general public, they dominate the chart

[@sIumps]

this is super accurate, i cannot believe i haven't noticed it !! thank you sm for the video :D

[@alvarosager9206]

As a 13-year kpop fan, I agree with your overall point and have thought a lot about this as well (I almost wish I had made this video!). However, when you're saying that they're "being cute for themselves" etc, let's remember that these concepts are still largely being decided by groups of middle-aged men discussing what will get them the most money.

[@ParisLeShea]

2NE1 were truly pioneers and deserve all the praise ❤❤❤❤

[@zibbitybibbitybop]

And then there's Dreamcatcher, who has stuck to their signature image regardless of how the trends changed until they finally became successful. They're the shining proof that even though K-pop is heavily managed and carefully marketed, you can succeed with a niche concept without losing your artistic integrity if your concept is good enough and you're faithful to it.

[@ranrae3712]

Interesting, i’ve been a Sone for over a decade, and Girls’ Generation were always known to have a mostly female fanbase, even if SM marketed them to men. They failed at that in the best way possible, because while Girls’ Generations weren’t chart monsters, they were relying on their physical albums sales that were selling like hot cake, because of their loyal female fanbase, while 2ne1 are the ones who actually relied more on the general public and succeeded in the charts, and Girls’ Generation continue to have a loyal fanbase backing them up whenever they comeback, cause when it comes to loyalty no one compares to fangirls This is why Girls’ Generation are legendary, maybe you weren’t there or maybe you just don’t remember, but Girls’ Generation were mostly relying on their fanbase when all other girl groups simply couldn’t, of course Girls’ Generation still had the public in a chokehold, but the fanbase were the backbone of their success, not the public

[@oximofo9]

No offense but I think you're GRAVELY miss understand the target market in Asia for most girl idol groups before 2015, it was men, men bought most of the albums and were mostly the "fan base". Men were always the largest physical media buyers, which goes against your point about album sales and proves it for the idea that men were the actual target. In the west pop bands are marketed towards women almost exclusively, they have the modes Boys, Fierce Girls, or "I love Jesus" they didn't have the "silent majority" of male fans like 1st and 2nd gen K-pop and the Musume Era of Jpop. Women in the west are simply used to being the market for Idols and have largely kept it this way. Mostly because of the stereotype of being a yellow fever creep for being a male K-pop fan in that era, which lead to many closeted K-pop fans. No dude wants to hear you imported a 4minute or Ami Suzuki cd for 90$, because "you like music" fair or not that's the way it was. The male K-pop groups breaking down the barriers for K-pop to be less niche has allow more casual audience and less "men in the dark" dreaming about Tiffany and Gyuri, but could casually listen to Red Velvet and Seventeen.

[@Milkythefawn]

@@oximofo9 honestly, I think there’s definitely some songs marketed towards those yellow fever creeps in 4th gen

[@oximofo9]

@@Milkythefawn i don't know, I think people confuse AESPA's "we're SM, Bitch" marketing style as trying to find the sweaty waifu man. AESPA an IVE are about as "male" marketed as it gets in 4th gen and that's really stretching it. The groups are always going to have pretty girls, but its the marketing and how quickly they promote is much more telling who their market is. Quicker promotions w/ B sides is nomrally a male market strategy and long "award" focus promotion cycle tends to favor female markets.

[@Milkythefawn]

@@oximofo9 oh, I just meant cookie

[@Milkythefawn]

@@oximofo9 I understand IVE, but I think Aespa has a lot of female fans

[@akongie]

This was actually very interesting!! I love the way you explain things you get your point across very well !

[@WanderingBreanna]

this is such a great video!! even though the idols who debut now are younger than me, I still feel empowered by these new girlies

[@carlosleon521]

And I'm all for it, the music coming out this era is amazing

[@love4dva]

I get the idea here but at the end of the day it's all marketing and no matter how 'girl crush' the concept, men will always be catered to in some way. Besides, I doubt girl groups today feel more empowered than ones of the past, they're still forced to look and behave a certain way and go through a lot of hardship. The lyrics and concepts might seem more empowering but it's mostly for marketing, it's superficial. I personally find cute and sexy concepts empowering as they make me feel like I can be more expressive and myself, I think this is probably the case for a lot of pre-4th gen girl group fans too. My point is, it's all about the audience, and everyone feels empowered in different ways, but the idols themselves are unlikely to with the type of job they have.

[@love4dva]

I also think that a lot of people don't like cute/sexy gg concepts bc of internalised misogyny, cringing at cute concepts cuz they're too girly. So while I do agree there's a shift in concepts and audience I don't think it's a totally positive one nor was it all positive before either.

[@arijeanz]

in the past it was extremely common to see people exclusively stan only bgs or only ggs. usually you would see this with women only stanning bgs, and maaaaybe a girl crush type group like blackpink as well. of course bg only or gg only stans exist still exist, but it's a practice that has fallen completely out of fashion now, and is sometimes even ridiculed or rejected by the general stan community. i got into kpop just as the first big wave of girl crush was starting with blackpink in 2017-2018, and it was very common to see people who only stanned bgs or ggs, nowadays that practice is practically dead just 4 years later. i would say that the biggest/most notable groups for each gen that helped gg kpop become universally marketable are 2ne1 for 2nd, bp and red velvet for 3rd, and itzy for 4th

[@AAAAAAHHHHHHHH1]

Honestly I feel like there’s still a lot of “only bg or gg” stans today. Like me lmaooo. I mostly stan only gg’s and female soloists. And having those kinds of interests, the algorithm will suggest videos and channels that talk about mostly female idols and gg’s. So I personally think there’s still a community for those kinds of people.

[@mikosan..4018]

I can’t say the same for everyone else but I don’t think it’s dead lmao I’m still a gg Stan

[@Katherine-jh4yp]

Most kpop stans i see on tt, Twitter etc are only gg/bg stans , i am a only gg Stan myself

[@high_sky8581]

I only stan ggs and no one would ridicule you for it. We'd prefer it instead. Cause those who stan both tend to pair the ggs and bgs members they liked in edits etc (even if they said its mostly platonic?) so i'd rather avoid them. Ofc you can stan both bgs and ggs without those thoughts. Just the ones i found tend to do so.

[@p2urple2]

In my case I only tend to listen to GG. I don't know why! 😁. I've heard BTS, Super Junior, Big Bang and Stray Kids casually and I like their music (Boy with Love is one of my favorite songs) but I've never felt the pull or the curiosity to listen more of them.

[@dokjongsooyoung]

I feel like Do Not Touch by MISAMO is a perfect example of a sexy concept aimed for women. Like its sexy because these women are classy, elegant, and mature not because they're s3x icons for men to drool at.

[@namu4380]

I think most women in their 20s like me , see their teenage years in NewJeans . Having a crush on a guy , keep a code for the crush to talk about him with your other friends , teasing your friends , trying new dresses , make up , doing a fake runway with your friends etc all these are the things done by most women in their 20s in their teenage years . So , they feel a certain type of nostalgia and ofcourse their songs are super catchy and members are very pretty / cute .

[@yeetiusthethotius7328]

I've noticed this shift as well, in 3rd gen and begin 4th gen I was only interested in the bg's because i just didn't feel like the gg's were targeted to me but more and more girlgroups have debuted since then and eventhough my stanlist is still all bg's i have noticed that i listen to gg's a lot more if I'm casually listening to music

[@brunettemouse3265]

This is such a good video! I really liked the last part about how girlgroups kinda act like role models

[@sophial3151]

I started my kpop journey with 2ne1. They were exactly what i was looking for. After they disbanded i mostly left kpop altogether. Once lockdowns srarted I found Ateez who had that special something that brought me back to kpop and unexpectedly i became a boy group MultiStan. With StayC's debut and then Kep1er I started to like girl groups again. My ult styles for girl groups are fun and upbeat and also very cutesy. I am not a fan of sexy or too much girl power, i feel like since the "west" is saturated with these concepts its realy a breath of fresh air to have other concepts too.

[@coffeetae]

From what i’ve seen, fourth gen groups (especially the newer ones) in general have been moving away from the pure “attraction” model and focusing more on performance which I love. It’s giving more variety in concepts and music.

[@schokigirl1989]

Hadn't YG said, that 2ne1 are not "pretty"? It is a horrible thought, but it could be that we have GG with more concepts nowadays, because YG thought, that 2ne1 are not pretty enough, to have a big male fanbase, so he targeted them towards women 🙈 Sometimes a bad person can bring good things I guess

[@Pain-yx1ri]

Very interesting topic to talk about!

[@Cupidador]

i think we should also put into account the amount of minors that are debuting nowadays... it's not a good thing but it def explains why there aren't as many sexy concepts

[@danaibero7118]

But it's not happening recently. Minors debuted in the 2nd gen too. Minzy, Hyuna, Soohee, Sunmi, debuted at 14/15 years old and Wonder girls had "so hot" at that time while some members were really young. F(x) Luna, Sulli, Krystal, were 14 years old too when they debuted.

[@rene9736]

red velvet is so cool to me. they have the highest if not one of the highest female fanbases, but specifically queer females. red velvet has the most queer women in their fan base and i think that’s so true and cool considering their my ult and i’m a bi girl

[@fleija482]

I agree, the commercial focus is on women, now bg and gg compete with each other for the same audience.

[@fleija482]

There's room left in the market for a GG to sell to men, groups like this are missing.

[@fabboolouse4227]

Great analysis!

[@tomsanchez7556]

Love this video!

[@Sandy33569]

I think GIdle with Nude is a pretty good example of having more “sexiness” in a release but it’s definitely for themselves, not being marketed for guys, not doing that for guys!

[@glsssm9575]

This is the most accurate things I've seen in regards to the more business side of kpop. I have another prediction for the next five years: We will start to see older kpop idols. Companies will eventually realize that not every early 20 year old kpop fan wants to stan girls 5-10 years younger than her. There is also a market for confident and sexy concepts, a more "female gaze" version of sexy. I think we'll see more companies debuting women age 20 and up, and groups who started young will transition into these more mature concepts as they get older.

[@Pensive_Impact]

Fascinating analysis

[@sesinyembezi1035]

I love this take

[@xinlu9363]

Actually the 4th gen is carried by girl groups, NJ, IVE, G-idle, ITZY, LESSERAFIM, STAYC, AESPA... The vast majority, if not all, of the bg make this loud music, with a rude concept and a similar EMD. Their songs and even most of the rappers sound pretty much the same which makes you think they are one group. When the 4th gen started it's okay because there were only a few groups that had this concept like ATEEZ and SKZ but now that the generation has advanced no one tries to do something new, and even if they start with something different they end up going the same way. A group that comes to mind is TXT, just by looking at the MVs of their main songs you realize it and even more so if you listen to something from their discography. I remember playing Rhythm Hive and hearing their song Eternally and I think it's one of the best songs out there and it shows the group's versatility.

[@YE0R3UM]

I agree a 100% with this bc i've seen all these changes as they occurred, i've been a kpop fan since my first year of high school and now i'm on college. When i started to get interested in kpop i thought ggs weren't that interesting but then i found out about f(x) and they made me change the way i saw girl groups, now days i listen to more ggs than bgs and i even have a tattoo in honor of one of these girl groups, which leads me to the other thing i wanted to talk about and that is the fact that i feel like wjsn took a really big part of all these changes, i personally think that their only mvs directed to the male public were momomo, catch me and kiss me, but now days we have songs like as you wish which was very criticized by men bc the outfits the members used in that era weren't "sexy", anyways i hope other people can agree with what i'm saying and i'm sorry if i made some mistakes, my first language isn't english.

[@betharramrojas8051]

It's so true. I didn't listen to many girl groups before, and now i enjoy it more than ever

[@sssydneyfree]

Thank you for mentioning 4minute. They are absolutely early pioneers of girl crush

[@exceptionallydistinctivedi481]

5:20 Btw as a long time insomnia I always thought that dc has more male "Korean" fans than female korean fans and vice versa for international fans. If you hear the fanchants and see the people that come to their concerts in Korea, it's mostly male fans.

[@sexy_u]

7:28 As a male student living in korea, i can confidently say... we do, and we do became very loyal fan boys lol 8:16 And my friends that are girls are in to 4th gen boy groups, for instance one of my best friend is a very very very big straykids fan, and sends me pictures of lee know everyday, trying to convince me to stan straykids.

[@tigroza]

How do you feel about the list at 7:18? For me it is exact with the ones she mentioned, even if I prefer gg music, but I do not know anyone else who listens to music as much as me

[@sexy_u]

I don't know outside of Korea too much, but here we all enjoy newjeans, stayc, and Ive's music and 100 out of 100 men in their teens would know who they are, and probably listens to them, although my brother told me it is nothing compared to when him and his friends all staned twice.

[@tigroza]

@@sexy_u that is cool! Thanks for the info

[@sexy_u]

@@tigroza no problem 😊

[@user-rz6qp1kn8y]

@@tigroza i'm also korean and, while i prefer boy groups, i can confirm a lot of korean (and even some non-korean!) men likes those groups, ive especially. every korean men i know has at least heard of ive. my own brother is a big fan of ive and my uncle likes yujin even if he has a distaste for modern kpop music 😭 i personally think ive is marketed for men, even if they are marketed for women as well. i have a hypothesis that maybe the reason why some people feel girl groups lack male fans is because, in the west, kpop is seen as a "girls" thing even if in korea, most young people like kpop regardless of their gender, but i may be wrong

[@minatozaki.sanapotter]

idols are 'someone they aspire to be like, someone to look up to, someone they can see themselves in. they think of them almost as friends' that's literally me 😭😭 honestly it's not like i want to be an idol but i feel like i like them because they bring me comfort through their songs and friendship amongst members :)

[@sunainapati]

love ur intro!

[@worshipthecomedygodseoeunk4010]

honestly, as a person who got into kpop late 2nd gen, i was shocked when teen crush became a thing. i remember back then, there was a stereotype that girl groups from small companies would "promote" on the streets dressed in super revealing clothes. busking wasnt as big of a thing but groups would go out and perform small public performances and even tell the local shop owners about their recent song and ask them to play it. nowadays, it seems that stereotype is almost nonexistent. a lot more teenage girl fans, particularly for girl groups, means more criticism for exploitative and misogynistic practices. and companies know this. i even think that companies who try to create groups using these practices nowadays are destined to flop. i questioned why i became so much more into girl groups in the last 7 years and now I know its because theres so much more versatility and freedom with concepts and the female gaze has really affected how they are promoted a lot more than before. the meaning of "girl crush" has even shifted itself I think. kpop has a different meaning now than before, and even though I'm only a casual listener these days, and my all time favorite songs are still from early 3rd gen, I'm glad this change happened. and i also am SO glad that fans have matured from the "korea degrades their women with aegyo" bs. yes, there were a lot more degrading concepts back then, but I feel like on tiktok and twitter the discourse has switched up a lot in not shaming women (the dominance of bg really made this a huge issue from like 2011-2016) but rather changing up the messages. cuteness is not inherently misogynistic, and there is a racial undertone in that message in that asian women are supposedly more docile and submissive, but rather, cuteness can be empowering too.

[@yoidkbuthi3242]

i agree 100% with the empowering cuteness point

[@PinksInMyArea]

Honetly I LOVE this shift in target audience. This shift is the reason why ggs are dominating the market rn.

[@sareneve1626]

this was really interesting and i think really accurate. it's interesting how little i connect with/want to emulate and even imitate gg concepts of the past. newer groups like tripleS, newjeans, ive, stayc, le sserafim, dreamcatcher, gwsn etc. are all much cooler to me, though of course i love past concepts and older groups as well--i am a loyal moomoo, once, and reveluv. i also noticed a comment about boy groups and how little concept diversity there is available to boy groups, and i've never really thought about it before but definitely think it's true. boy groups are offered a lot less freedom in terms of concepts--it's usually just either like simple "boyfriend" stuff or more intense "cool" concepts. i don't know--i kind of hope that we can see more diversification in bg concepts as well. i feel like it's in a way tied to the ways that we socialize men and women--with women, we've always been encouraged to be more like men, because **misogyny**. however, it's also okay if we're really feminine, or on whatever spectrum we want. there is virtually no spectrum for men though--and i'm not whining on their behalf because they still benefit as men from systems that rely on that same misogyny--but it definitely helps reinforce a lot of i think ultimately harmful ideas about what the ideal "man" should be. it still kind of feels like bg music is orientated towards women, and of course i'm not necessarily complaining because more good music, but i think what i'm trying to get at is if the patriarchy had less of a hold on popular media, and there was less of a need to reinforce that concept of masculinity that the patriarchy perpetuates via the media to women in particular, there would be a lot more conceptual freedom available to boy groups. i don't know if all bgs enjoy it or are tired and feel **artistically repressed** but whatever i've rambled enough

[@onalenna2383]

the only channel I only agree with ur channel should be given more attention

[@DearStephanieX]

As someone that has enjoyed K-pop since 2nd gen, I’ve seen this shift and I’m happy about it ❤

[@celestialdusk]

I am a woman who got into TWICE in the Fancy era when they were shifting to more mature concepts. I've stanned Dreamcatcher since their debut. I don't care if a girl group does a female empowerment concept, I just want good music and versatility. I follow G-idle and STAYC too. I used to follow many boy groups when I was younger but now the only boy group I follow is ENHYPEN because they are amazing dancers and their music is incredibly addicting. Attraction is not important.

[@shineeteentop24]

Well this certainly explains why I’ve started standing girl groups for the first time in 12 years lol (when I first got into kpop). Great video :)

[@skotnight1093]

trueee!! you hit the spot gurrll!!😁😁

[@frutillasparatres]

if you're going to talk about targeting the group towards woman you shouldn't only talk about seeing yourself in it but also lgbtq women and the female gaze and what they find attractive, mmm, dreamcatcher, loona, all of them have a large female fanbase but also said fanbase is full of sapphic and lesbian fans, we're (I'm a lesbian) are also sold sometimes, loona for example in their predebut project, they marketed lgbt fans with wlw love story and pairs within their lore. new jeans also does this in hype boy with the hanni mv and danielle and haerin mv. though this is mostly queerbaiting by their company, not saying the artists don't creatively participate but c'mon hype boy's songs are all heterosexual just because you're implying a girl is falling in love with another girl won't make you an ally, the song and whole album still talks in heteronormative way: girl and boy. it's very interesting too, as companies realized they can make a profit out of representation among queer woman too, they try to gather the market with such low effort but it works

[@preacher2096]

i think another reason why labels are shifting the girl group target more towards to female audience is because fangirls spend more than fanboys. and from a business point of view ofc you want to get as much profit as possible

[@fairfarren38]

I've been a kpop fan since 2009 and I didn't notice this as it was happening, but now that you mention it... yeah. You're 100% correct. I mainly only follow girl groups these days and this perfectly explains why.

[@Mimi-op2ys]

I love this era, I get to see groups like newjeans that are in my age range doing things I do or wish to do and it's really easy to fall for them and become a stan, hopefully bgs can catch up in the future because otherwise there won't be many left

[@4am4sure10]

If you think I’ve and New Jeans are not marketed towards Korean men you are too innocent. Regardless of the age of the girls they are clearly being sexualized and marketed to many audiences but that includes grown men. It’s disgusting and wrong the subtle things they have the girls do and it is undeniably appealing to perverse men. Look at the most replayed parts of their mvs, and look for videos sexualizing the girls and you would be able to find thousands. I’m not saying these groups aren’t also marketed to girls as unfortunately they are. Despite the fact that no young girl should be singing about her “cookie” being ate, but I’m just saying the k pop industry same as Hollywood has ulterior motives and undoubtedly has creeps in the industry that need to be acknowledged. I support the girls but not the companies.

[@xsomili5501]

I was a fan since second gen (I was a kid then) but I've never been more invested in kpop. These 4th gen GGs are no joke...

[@samira200]

The new generation girl groups are like a close group of friends that you can grown up with. It feels way more intimate in some way

[@bawls3223]

interesting take, i wholeheartedly agree

[@notValerieJeanA]

I agree. 7 years ago, I rarely liked any girl groups at all and was more into boy groups, especially BTS started during that time. Then now, I switched and more into the new girl groups and this video explained it well as to why this is the case. That's okay. I like it. More girl group concepts that's cute, cool, comfortable, and empowering. 🥰🥰🥰

[@brnne]

I'm so happy to see dreamcatcher here. I love their music and talent. They really appeal but with the strong concept and that don't put them on fake cute smiles. I really love their energy in interviews, they feel real

[@tesalonika_art]

This is a great analysis, especially for a noob like me.

[@timothyford1103]

You are absolutely correct

[@l8terivy]

Thanks for vocalizing this! This is one of the things I miss so much about 2nd gen. Girl groups were just so much more enjoyable! I liked the cute ditzy concepts, mixed with the sexy concepts, mixed with badass (we didn’t use the term girlcrush, we used badass) concepts. It was honestly more relatable for me as a woman. The sharp contrast between sexiness and innocence really showed me the duality of women. I hope the pendulum swings back one day!

[@l8terivy]

it’s actually harder for me to enjoy current girl groups compared to past girl groups. i’ve never been a fan of girlboss messaging. it’s lame to me.

[@yoonology]

when i once vocalized how i want more cute and fun poppy girl group releases along with some mature ones, i literally got hell from so many new gg fans. like this whole new era is really killing me, i’m just waiting for the day they debut older women so we can get more versatility rather than what we are stuck with now. (no hate, i love the new groups too but they are not that creative in concepts in my opinion the music is good tho)

[@moomoobebe]

No disrespect to your opinion and preferences. I just wanted to say that I think the sharp contrast between sexiness and innocence is too often turned into a harmful societal expectation on women, especially in very patriarchal societies. I think innocence especially is a dangerous and disempowering ideal, that is connected with women being treated as men’s property. Of course it’s fine to enjoy innocent plus sexy style. What I’m saying is that it becomes harmful when it turns into a coercive expectation for how women should be.

[@yoonology]

@हर्षिता I find this take insanely weird. Calling it a “weird madonna whore” complex for wanting more creativity and versatility from girl groups that could range from a variety of concepts is really downplaying the talent and power women have towards music and the art. 2nd Gen girl groups were top tier in many aspects, from cute to mature. Lots of women would rather prefer to do mature concepts, and lots of women would rather do cute concepts. Despite whatever women do, they’d be adjusted to the male gaze no matter what and the market to make these Girl Group shine, the target would be for die heart male idol fans. The reason why it worked is because groups like Sistar, Miss A, MAMAMOO, brown eyed girls exist which had GROWN women doing them. That doesn’t dismiss how diverse the wide range of music and concepts when had during those eras, never knowing what we might get from Girl Groups rather than the repetitive stuff we have today. Girl crush is a disaster created to make Girl groups look bland, but of course that’s what they have to give to the new girls cause they are incredibly young and they are limited to only Girl crush. Which is why the industry needs to push out more older women debuting, so we can finally have good music again.

[@and.me_7390]

I also really love cute concepts with bubbly upbeat songs. From both: male and female groups. I don‘t understand the whole „female empowerment movement“ which seems to erase any other concept except for fierce/ badass. It‘s truly boring and not every song needs a rapper.

[@yhnp2152]

i think companies with boy groups' have failled to adapt to modern sound. there are groups which already have their own sound which makes sense for them to stick to their identity. but newly debuted boy groups are basically copy of other already big 4th gen bgs like skz, txt, atz, enha. companies should study gg success and try to implement that in their boy groups identities. "girl i want you" songs and "vroom vroom booms" aren't it anymore

[@onceagain569]

I don't even listen to kpop like that but I completely understood what you meant. Self-empowered is the sexiest status anyone can achieve. I also like the way you laid out this video. Subbed :)

[@deekay13]

Great essay. Point well argued.

[@milky_quartz]

idk idk, I always knew red velvet had joy and irene but that personal never made me seek out red velvet music. It wasn't until I by chance heard a song ( psycho ) of them that I liked that I ever got the urge to look into them as a groups. It was the music , not the visuals

[@azpizzazz3442]

same their music was what got me hooked

[@milky_quartz]

@@azpizzazz3442 yes! Spotify helped me by recommending fantastic b sides and other tts I never heard of like butterflies, blue lemonade , attaboy, talk that talk, sunny side up, so good , etc

[@azpizzazz3442]

@@milky_quartz butterflies and sunny side up!!! ugh i love those songs they truly have such an amazing discography

[@BhaktManomandirVihariniUma]

Even for me it's was their music ..

[@SiriuzGrey]

Have we forgotten how Le sserafim used over-sexualized teasers and how New Jeans also sexualized minors?

[@carmen_chuuu5224]

In general leseraf concept seems to sexy elegant models so not just the teasers but yea hybe really ain’t doing great at protecting its underage female idols

[@atsushi77_]

fr

[@peonisie]

As a stan since 2011, I agree with EVERYTHING that you've said; nonetheless, I would be reallyyyyyyy curious about your thoughts on f(x) and their influence on newer girlsgroups' sounds, it would've been even more interesting if you included them in this video

[@p2urple2]

In my opinion F(x) was not in the right time. They tried the concept way ahead of its time. Had they debuted in 2015 or later they would have being like Mamamoo or more successfull since they were from a big agency.

[@detaaditya6237]

I agree with everything you said. I feel the shift as someone who listened to kpop since the peak of 2nd gen and early 3rd gen until now. That explains why a lot of my male kpoper friends start disappearing. I'm a male myself, but since I'm more inclined to kpop's music, I have a huge reason to stay. 4th gen groups have a lot of great music coming from IVE, Lesserafim, Newjeans, tripleS, STAYC, etc. and I really enjoy listening to them

[@newbunnie1]

I think NewJeans applies to the "for everyone" category

[@fabiant.2485]

It has bugged me for some time that as a straight guy i only seem to be able to stan girl groups (primarily 3rd gen onward). Makes me question things about myself, like whether i am shallow, etc. However when the core concept of so many boy groups boils down to "selling the boyfriend fantasy" it becomes hard for an average joe to relate. Theoretically i could still make them my role models. But basing my identity on being "the perfect boyfriend" doesn't seem appealing to me, the human condition is just a bit too nuanced for that to be enough. Girl groups on the other hand have branched out into many different interesting concepts. Most of which are applicable to all genders: self empowerment, self realization, lore-heavy scifi/fantasy storytelling, tackling different spectrums of emotional vulnerability and/or strength, saving the environment, and many more.

[@matheusmh1]

Love a 4minute mention

[@stacie1595]

I agree! I noticed it especially in the clothing. It went from super short skirts, high heals, and crop tops even in cute concepts to more streetwear and comfortable shoes. That's a small part of it but that's the most obvious and telling to me. Also, boy groups have the short end of the stick because men have always been open to liking girl groups but turned off to boy groups because liking boy groups is seen as emasculating. Despite this, boy groups are still the idols with the most creative control over their sound. Like I think korean men would enjoy the music if they gave it a shot but even considering listening to male idols is seen as bad because they also happen to wear stage makeup... (it's homophobia actually).