I Told My Brother's Fiancee We Don't Owe Her A Happy Family Just For Getting Married r/Relationships

[@Davtwan]

Update: Unsurprisingly, it was Nico who dropped the ball. “He kept hoping that it would work itself out?” This dude does not sound ready for marriage if this is how he solves problems.

[@dulcilass]

Nico was not thinking things through well and trying to disguise the situation by lying to his family and his girlfriend. He lied to his family about the so called conversations with Jennie about not pushing so hard and lied to her about how open and welcoming his family would be to her. That's an insane way to go about establishing a lasting relationship. Jennie needs and wants a family to belong to and has been told by Nico that he has one and she'll fit right in.. Boy, is he not ready for marriage! Jennie is also not ready to enter into a lasting union either. She needs to realize that you don't just walk into an established family without doing some hard, slow work in getting to know the various members and how much of their lives that they will be willing to share and include her in. Barging in as she did caused the family to start putting up walls that she couldn't understand the reason for based on what she had been lead to expect.

[@rayneookami4355]

So, OP gets chewed out for what they said. Then Nico says something similar and also gets chewed out for it? Y'all need professional counseling and therapy.

[@aluralovell6829]

Well, the difference is that OP never lied or made promises she couldn't keep. Context matters, he promised her something likely so that she would agree to be with/marry him, she likely told him from the beginning that she wanted a family and he told her what she wanted to hear so for him to turn around and be upset that she is upset and unsure if she wants to stay after he sold her a lie is quite different from OP who had done none of those things.

[@Davtwan]

@@aluralovell6829 - Ding ding ding, Nico told her that she could easily fit in due to his family being a blended one. He then barely did anything to stop Jenny as he was more content with just letting things play out.

[@SnowyWolborg]

@@aluralovell6829 Considering that Jenny said in the therapy session that she wanted Nico's family to "try to be the family that she needs," there's no way that she did not make her intentions clear to Niko, beforehand. But because he's a little chicken shit and does not want to have hard conversations, he sold her a fantasy and got surprised when reality hit her in the face.

[@diamcole]

@@aluralovell6829 Exactly.

[@ACAB.forcutie]

@@aluralovell6829 exactly, the only AH is Nico. Whereas what Jenny wants I believe to be unreasonable, it's not her fault for him selling that dream hard to her. It's not his family's fault either. They both made the best decisions they could with the information Nico was feeding them.

[@RaspberryHugs]

Nico: *sells his family to her as a ready made family that she can slot right into if she's with him* Mediator: if you don't get the relationship with his family do you think you can happily be with him? Jenny: I don't know Nico: *surprised pikachu face*

[@someanon1984]

Nico used his family as a selling point but then got mad when joining his family was a requirement for her??

[@catherinecox573]

Nico sucks :( he is the root of the problems. HE is the one who used his family to get her and then gets mad she wanted the family. Lmao, dude. You planted those seeds!

[@user-fg4tn8ot6b]

Story one: *WTF, Nico! I'm sorry, but the major AH here is Nico himself!* He's practically presenting his own family as a prize for her if she stays. No wonder Jenny keeps trying to push (not saying she's not problematic; she's still is); Nico is not doing anything because he's an *enabler* for his own selfish reasons. Did he really think his family would be okay with this?! 😨😨😨 Also, Jenny needs therapy. The kind that will help her interact with others without crossing boundaries. Finally, OP...why are you lecturing your boyfriend? Especially after (as you said) he told Jenny the truth? Come on.

[@betheguy_posts]

Dude literally placated everyone involved until they spoke up for themselves and then called them the bad guy for having the conversation he kept saying he'd have. Dude's the AH for trying to have his cake and eat it too. Cake-eaters never prosper.

[@strawberrysangria1474]

You can point fingers at practically everyone, but why did the boyfriend get shut down like that? When the calm and quiet ones yell, everyone better be listening because they tell the truth. Let the boyfriend cook! He's one of the only logical and honest ones here!

[@cindyskullz]

He didn’t even yell, he calmly spoke his mind and was immediately scolded and called insane. I think the OP just sucks at writing and I can’t trust that she’s accurate in her story.

[@divinebitter1638]

The use of insane vs. the content of the boyfriend's comment smacks of "We let you in the room as a courtesy and/or an emotional support person. How dare you speak up as though you're real family. In front of Jenny, no less!" energy

[@shadowkissed2370]

@@divinebitter1638 or how dare you speak without permission. You are not allowed off your leash if I do not say you can be.

[@sammieg8641]

She is going to end up walking into a severe abusive family situations with her mindset… she needs serious help

[@agentzapdos4960]

As a former foster kid, most of us are beyond help. Homelessness, abusive relationships, sex work, criminality, and mooching off government handouts are pretty much the guaranteed outcome for foster kids. Realistically, kids from broken/unstable homes, foster kids, and adoptees alike would statistically be better off dead, and infinitely better off had they been aborted.

[@ZombieSazza]

@@agentzapdos4960​​⁠​​⁠​​⁠​​⁠child abuse survivor with zero contact with my mother and brother, cPTSD and nerve damage from said childhood, and yeah… yeahhhhhhh… when I was a teenager and forced to care for my brother like he was my own child whilst my mother constantly screamed at me, told me I was “the reason” she wanted to unalive herself, encouraged my brothers physical violence towards me, favoured my brother and made that very clear, and neglected me in favour of partying with random men who she’d LOUDLY “passionately hug”, I got into so much legal trouble because I just started acting out. Now I’m lucky that after a short prison stint at 17 (misdemeanours but I kept offending and doing stupid stuff, Court was fed up seeing me every other week, which is very fair) I turned my life around and got in touch with a young persons charity who took one look at my situation and offered me a flat in one week. I was dirt poor but omg I had never felt so safe before in my life, that young persons charity was recommended by local Police who desperately wanted social work to do literally _anything_ but did nothing, and they helped me find work at a Burger King (super glam, I know!) and eventually join college in my early 20s. It did take me until my mid 20s to eventually fully cut all contact as the abuse never actually stopped, it just changed, and at 32 and mostly bedridden disabled with permanent nerve damage and cPTSD I am on government disability assistance, am more than happy to stay single because I’m so incredibly distrusting of people because I’m scared I’ll have a relationship like my parents when I was a very small child or the constant revolving door of men who were horrendous that my mother picked over me (her 3rd marriage is failing as I got told down the grapevine, not a shocker), I am thankfully stable in accommodation and live with my best friend who’s my chosen family (he’s orphaned and has an abusive brother he’s no contact with), thankfully don’t have any addictions unless you count opioids due to me being in constant pain? So you’re very spot on with the government assistance and criminality in my case! One of my childhood friends was a foster kid (similar childhood to my own where she was actually taken into care for her own protection, y’know the type of care centre who was abusive…) and in her case it was sex work, criminality, addiction. We hadn’t spoken in a couple of years in our late teens as we’d drifted apart only to end up in the same college, doing the same court, social sciences, so we could help others who hadn’t been given the help we deserved when growing up. Whilst I can’t actually use my education or any job, I put her in touch with the young persons charity who saved me all those years ago, and she now helps younger versions of ourselves, so at least something good has come from her awful childhood.

[@meiimacca4054]

That's my thought exactly. Unless she huts the jackpot of friendly families the instant dynamic she wants is asking for toxic relationship.

[@shadowkissed2370]

You are correct. I was a foster kid. My first marriage was extremely abusive.

[@selinesbeau]

Treat others the way you want to be treated, also don't accept someone that doesn't treat you as well as they want to be treated.

[@slippyquack7672]

Funny how OP chewed out her boyfriend for having a "break in insanity" when he sounds like the most sane person there, meanwhile she and everybody else was getting worked up and arguing with each other.

[@kaykay8855]

Story 1: NTA. I get that Jenny wanted a family but she’s pushing too hard. Love takes time, learning to love a person takes time its not always instant, love takes work.

[@javontebrown2099]

She is the asshole people are just becoming a heartless and heartless and heartless

[@javontebrown2099]

I bet you you are white

[@SnowyWolborg]

@@javontebrown2099 You sound just as traumatized as Jenny. And probably racist.

[@kaykay8855]

⁠@@javontebrown2099I’m black. I’m not saying that Jenny has to earn her place in the family but it takes time for people to warm up to you and let you in on certain aspects of their lives.

[@taz598]

Jenny need lots of therapy....close bonds take years to establish and that fantasy family she has in her head is unhealthy and will cause her to have issues in all her relationships. Brother is an AH for lying to Jenny and his family.

[@SnowyWolborg]

Completely agree. Jenny needs a lot of extensive therapy before anything else.Because she can't just think that other humans exist to be the cure for her problems.

[@j.j.juggernaut9709]

Agreed but it has to be acknowledged that there are families out there who tend to be very welcoming and close very quickly. Could never be me though 🤣

[@lilfairykiki122]

“Why can’t you just be the family i want” girl the entitlement is insane. I could not deal with a person like this and as bad as Nico was for not communicating the issues his family had, Jenny was fully using him.

[@SnowyWolborg]

100% agree. Nico made the problem worse by not communicating with Jenny and being fully candid. But it's clear that Jenny herself had expectations of a ready-made family.

[@ndawn90]

I don't know that I would call that entitlement. That seems like a very common sentiment for people who are coming out of the foster system to have. I think it's important to keep in mind that Jenny literally has zero context for what "family" is outside of like movies and TV shows. She has had her entire childhood to fantasize about her future family, and so it's not unrealistic that she hangs so much on her future in-laws. Yes, she needs therapy to sort through that, yes, she needs a bit of a wake up call, but to call that "entitlement" is a little much. Not to mention the fact that truthfully, everyone is entitled to a loving, protective, supportive family, especially as children. We don't all get that, and Jenny certainly didn't, but that doesn't change the fact that she absolutely deserved it. It's not entitlement to want something that everyone really should have.

[@lilfairykiki122]

@@ndawn90 expecting people to do what you want and act how you want without taking into account their own feelings is entitlement. She’s trying to play barbie dolls with real people. I get she’s had a tough life but that gives her no right to disregard others boundaries and expect them to act accordingly. People who have had bad childhoods can still be in the wrong. She certainly needs therapy, her background explains her behavior but doesn’t excuse it.

[@damien678]

​@@lilfairykiki122 'Entitled' is just a harsh word for someone whose feelings are so sympathetic, though. Obviously she wasn't in the right but it's hard to not feel for her plight.

[@damien678]

Also how is it entitled to feel hurt by saying she won't be a part of a family she was literally going to get married into? She had every reason to believe she was a part of the family

[@Ospyro3em]

After that update, I'm glad i'm not in that family- what a lot of chaos

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

Nico being triggered by Jenny saying she didn’t know if she would be happy in the relationship if she never got the family she idealized nearly made me throw my iPad cuz he _sold_ this idea to her?!

[@thomasjoseph5876]

Wow, what a mess. If Jenny is looking for a family to just slide into, she picked the wrong one. I think Nico sold his family to her based on incorrect data to "close the deal" with her. To be honest, I don't know very many families at all, including my own that wouldn't have an issue with how Jenny was trying to integrate herself into it. There are few "Leave it to Beaver" families out there these days and it seems that is what she wants more than a boyfriend/mate/husband. I see a lot of useless therapy in the future for Jenny, Nico, and the rest of the OP's family. Regardless of the old saying, you don't really "marry into the family", you marry your spouse and if you are lucky, you have good relationships with their family members but those relationships will vary depending on your chemistry with them.

[@venusbleu5764]

Everyone in the comments literally overlooking or enabling Jenny wanting to practically redo her childhood etc and needing to work through that void so she can happily healthily build her OWN family is wiiiiiild

[@venusbleu5764]

Saying there's a guy or family for her is glossing over the insane, grave level of emotional and mental scarring this girl desperately needs to work through. She sounds like she has the mentality of a 12 year old because she never moved past that. The last thing she needs to do is attach herself to anybody without years of therapy to undo years of damage.

[@SnowyWolborg]

It's like somebody say in another comment. Jenny is like a bride who is looking for the wedding, but not the marriage. Except in this situation, she's using the marriage as an opportunity to slide into her husband's family. I'm willing to cut her a lot of slack because she clearly does not know how to build real relationships. But the moment that she acts why can't they just be the family she needs? Excuses have to stop after that.

[@SnowyWolborg]

Story #1: Good intentions by Jenny, but terrible execution. Relationships that are going to _mean something_ take time to build. Attempting to insert herself into the family so strongly before foundation has been built is just going to push everybody away. Niko proposing to her did not mean that she has been accepted by the larger family proper, yet.

[@thomasjoseph5876]

Yes, but it appears Nico sold Jenny on his family based on incorrect facts. He portrayed them a certain way which I think he knew Jenny was looking for in order to "close the deal" with her. I suppose when Jenny tried to build relationships with them and it didn't work, she felt frustrated that it wasn't working and since Nico told her they were a certain way, she probably felt that she was failing so she started pushing harder thinking that would work. It didn't because that was not how the family really was. Jenny has issues but Nico is the one really at fault here for misleading her about his family. The OP is a nasty b*tch (not necessarily a bad thing lol) with no f*cks to give and isn't going to allow anyone to run roughshod over her. So the more Jenny pushed, the more OP pushed back. The more OP pushed back, the more Jenny thought she had to push harder because Nico led her to believe that would work because his family was so awesome.

[@SnowyWolborg]

@@thomasjoseph5876 And to make matters worse, OP already made it clear to her brother that Jenny was pushing a little bit too hard, and he said that he would have a conversation with her. Either he completely _lied_ about that, or he just kept telling Jenny something along the lines of "they will come around soon if you just keep attempting to ingratiate yourself," etc. Bottom line, Niko did not handle this, so someone else had to.

[@thomasjoseph5876]

@@SnowyWolborg Yup. I really think Nico thought (or hoped) that the family would just kind of cave to Jenny and be the family that Jenny wanted or needed even though that is not how Nico's family was anyway LOL. What a mess.

[@ACAB.forcutie]

Tbh it sounds like she never learned how to form relationships

[@Rhaenarys]

Theyve been together for 2 years. How long do they have to be together before she can feel welcomed?

[@shybiscket]

Story 1. I can't imagine how Neko would have ever broached the topic of "my family doesnt want you as family member" without utterly crushing her.

[@MorganaCrow]

Nico* But the sad thing about isn't even that they won't accept her as family, it's just she can't fall into a slot in the family like a jigsaw. She's gonna have to build a relationship

[@shybiscket]

These stories where families hurl abuse at the OPs always had me perplexed until just now, the "groomed for abuse" from story 1. The very few times a family(or step) member tried to manipulate or be abusive towards me I told them to f*** off leaving no room for interpretation, same with their "flying monkeys"

[@97scarletwitch]

"That's not how things workin the real world" No. That's not how YOUR family works. That's the explanation she needs. A lot of families are really welcoming, warm, and ready to love each new member as though they belong. OTHER families, not this one. We're not like that. How is that hard?

[@SwirlyPinwheel]

So you'd be perfectly okay if some relative acquaintance came in and stepped over all of your and your family's boundaries? 🙄 They tried to be that family, but she wasn't respecting them. Love isn't unconditional if someone keeps hurting or disrespecting you.

[@hazeltulip]

@@SwirlyPinwheelits been two years. That is long enough

[@bellanoche4945]

​@@SwirlyPinwheelhow was she "hurting" them? They just didn't like someone they didn't know and are standoffish. My family would have welcomed her with open arms.

[@kaykay8855]

@@bellanoche4945I don’t think they’re standoffish but gf is trying to insert herself and breaking their boundaries. Op and her family has told Jenny that she’s crossing boundaries and bf is setting her up for failure.

[@randomusername3873]

Hearing markee getting progressively more confused towards the end pretty much sums up this story for me😂

[@mztweety1374]

Jenny does know how to family. She needs counseling, as most Foster kids do. Was she abused/neglected while in the foster care system? Nico is definitely out of his pay grade on this one.

[@kaykay8855]

She probably grew up in group/residential homes or didn’t develop any connection with her foster parents and/or foster siblings.

[@KittenUndercover]

Every foster kid feels neglected and rejected. It’s built in.

[@amyyaku5022]

I feel for Jenny and for the family. Family is very important for Jenny and the family seems friendly and welcoming, but Jenny has to respect people's boundaries and not expect their ideal family, while the family could've had an intervention earlier and OP could've phrased their words better. While I think Nico caused all of this, Jenny has an entitled mindset and I hope she took OP's boyfriend's words to heart. As for the family's boundaries, I don't think they were unreasonable. Personally I wouldn't talk about sex and personal stuff with anyone I'm not close to and I wouldn't call my inlaws mom and dad until I'm married to their son. Also I wonder if OP called her boyfriend insane because he's not a part of the family? Like maybe no matter what he said, no matter how logical, to OP he shouldn't have gotten involved like he did? Maybe for her that was out of line? 🤔

[@purplecrayonismine2585]

Good point, like OP seems to feel like family is something tl be earned because she had to "earn" her relationship with her stepfather, but to be honest the healthy version is that the stepfather usually has to do most of the work or earning the step kids trust? Like Im guessing they met when she was a kid so the responsibility was mostly on the adult here (stepfather). But I feel like the whole Jenny situation is making OP and everyone rethink what a family is in ways we usually dont do, like I just take it for granted because it has always been this way, so it is possible that in response to Jenny forcing herself in, OP is closing her family tigher than she otherwise would in self defense. This situation definitely will leave scars forever in Jenny ever increasing trust issues, but it probably has also left some in OP and other members of the family, and Im afraid they are not making the brother responsible for it because "he is family he can't be as guilty as someone foreign to us like Jenny", when he just confessed to being the one to make this worse.

[@KE-hr4sb]

S1 reminds me of a mommy meme I saw: "Mom: makes a request, no response. Mom: repeats the request, no response. Mom: asks again, no response. Mom: screams her head off like a frickin banshee. Kids: Why is mom so cray?" OP, you repeatedly asked your brother to address his fiance's overstepping. Either he did not, or, he did and she didn't listen, continuing to overstep. When you have asked politely multiple times, it's natural that eventually, you're going to snap. NTA. Polite wasn't working, so you had to escalate to find something that would, and that's on them for making you take it that far and not responding to the politeness. You've also asked her multiple times directly, and she goes back to doing what you asked her not to the next time around. When you offered your brother to have a more direct conversation with you, he said no??? Something's up with that, and he likes things the way they are for a reason. Called it. Nico figured out what she wanted, and dangled the "I've got a family!" carrot to get her hooked. Then left things intentionally unresolved hoping she'd work her way into the family and marry him, and by that time she's "locked in." Now he's shocked Pikachu that she wants a family as much as a relationship? When he used that from the beginning? 🤦🏻‍♀As for Jenny throwing a tantrum and demanding "Why can't you all just be the family I want," OP was right in the beginning: No one OWES you a family, whether you are born or married into one. It takes a willingness to work, to get along, and to not stomp people's boundaries (NONE of which Jenny is doing). My mother and I are NC, because she's an abusive, manipulative boundary-stomper. She's not entitled to be in my and my kids' lives just because she's related to me. I do think she should not be lecturing her bf for doing basically the same thing she did herself: Telling a harsh truth that might have come off as hurtful.

[@user-mp1is6ys7m]

The bf was right so I don't get why he was brought there if he was going to get told off for being calm and honest.

[@sfsin3380]

It's make Op's earlier cliam of Jenny inserting herself into arguments suspect to me to be honest.

[@YuriKaroki19]

@@sfsin3380 makes me wonder how truthful OP is being

[@littlestrawberryfaery]

NICO, NICO YOU TOOK A BROKEN PERSON AND PROMISED HER A FAMILY, HE MADE IT SEEM LIKE IT WAS AN OPEN SLOT HAPPY FAMILY THING THAT WOULD ACCEPT HER WHEN HE KNEW IT WOULDN'T!!!! I feel like he just manipulate this broken person so he could have her.... Edit: I shouldn't call her broken, that's unkind, nobody is broken just vulnerable and hurting

[@jas6940]

Jenny is already the AH when OP said she gets in between family disagreements You don’t know these people well enough to put your two cents in their business even if you do know them like that you don’t get in between people when not asked And I dislike people that act all friendly and Buddy Buddy when we have absolutely no history or relationship to build on like ma’am sir idk you like that you’re not my sis or best friend

[@SwirlyPinwheel]

I had a roommate like Jenny once. We had a falling out with another friend (toxic, but sad as her parents were the real problem) and needed to fill a room. One friend suggested someone she knew from a club she was in. Hoooo boy. We tried to be friendly at first so we could have a chill relationship after the issues we had. This was still summer, so we invited her along with our friend group and we figured she'd hang out more with her own friends as the year went on. Win-win. She, uh. Didn't have any other friends and latched on to us. In a vice-grip. It got to the point where we had to stagger leaving our rooms, so she wouldn't come out and ask what WE (her included) were doing. In her mind, three weeks of hanging out was comparable to our three years of friendship. She was also a mooch, disrespected personal space, and so competitive that games weren't fun anymore. We definitely could have handled it better (we just kind of shut her out since any interaction had her latching right back on), but our livingroom became an area of dread, because we literally could not sit there as the three of us without her coming out of her room and barging into our conversations. Eventually she got the hint, but the stress was astronomical. I don't blame OP at all for snapping. It just builds and builds since they don't understand gentle correction.

[@champslim]

That whole "moment of instantly" is weird...

[@kennedyozemwogie7958]

This whole story is weird, but I'm of the opinion that everyone is an asshole

[@jakeand9020]

Yeah, "him saying anything at all is an uncharacteristic moment of insanity," that she lectured him for. Honestly it looks like reddit was wrong about which of them are the red flag here.

[@anthonym6119]

Nico sold her a fantasy that she thought if she worked hard enough she could make it true but this wasn’t what the family had in mind.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

I think the moment of insanity was the fact that he chose to step in when he normally stays quiet and out of things. Idk why OP had to talk to him tho.

[@tlang7616]

Jenny is come across as needy and selfish, does she only want to use these people as props for her problems? Sorry, no one is obligated to be instantly close, just because you married in. Forced relationships are the reason why step-families blow up, this is no different.

[@javontebrown2099]

Is this was a black household this wouldn't be a problem white people are just weird to me

[@thomasjoseph5876]

This is true but it appears that Nico sold Jenny on his family based on incorrect data so he could "close the deal" with her. I think Nico realized if he didn't portray his family a certain way, she would not have agreed to date and marry him. The problem with that was his family wasn't that way. LOL.

[@ACAB.forcutie]

Holy crap you're heartless. A child who never learned how to form a proper bond with someone grows into a needy adult. You are blaming a victim for the damage the abuse did to them.

[@kdooley3435]

@@ACAB.forcutieit’s like in regular relationships, the more you cling the more the other person wants to get away. Jenny learned a big lesson here, in the worst way, but a necessary one. As an adoptee I also had to learn how to unlearn my inherent anxious attachment style to a securer one. It take time but it can be done

[@ACAB.forcutie]

@@kdooley3435 absolutely, but it certainly didn't help with manchild over here exploiting her trauma :/

[@diivaiinthehouse1]

Story 1: I'm sorry but I feel like OP and family aren't warm or welcoming as much as they are making it out to be. Blending family is hard and it seems like no one on either said is listening. Nico is at fault for not being aware of his family's coldness and slowness to warm up.

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

with the edits it does sound like OP was trying gently to tell Jenny that certain topics were too personal (sex, meds, etc) so I can't entirely blame her, but I definitely feel the most sorry for Jenny

[@venusbleu5764]

Cold or not, no one owes this girl a do over family, and nobody likes the person who is too intrusive or too comfortable too soon. In the update it's revealed that Nico literally emotionally manipulated her with the idea of a family, and then its revealed that this is about Jenny's unhealed trauma and inability to separate her own romantic relationship from her childhood trauma. Instead of focusing on redoing her childhood she needs to focus on building her OWN family and being the parent she never had. Your response is very simple and short sighted given the gravity of all this tbh

[@kiarar.1219]

I’m sorry but having trauma/mental health issues does not excuse you for bulldozing over other people’s boundaries and feelings. Why would you contact people the family has cut contact with?! For what?! That’s very rude. I’ve had issues with some family members and if my SO or my brother’s SO did something like this I’d be pissed!

[@slimecorn]

I was thinking the same thing, this post made me appreciate my fiancé’s family a lot more for being so welcoming and accommodating.

[@venusbleu5764]

@@slimecorn i'm sure very different circumstances that aren't even comparable though. yall really do not get anything past those hurt feelings lol

[@Zurround]

Story 1: I myself can identify with this story because I am also a very needy and lonely person who has had difficulty socially for my entire life and lacked stability in my youth. However, even I think she is a bit nuts and has gone way too far. I have even driven others away in my life due to my neediness but unlike her I am AWARE of it and am in therapy and have gotten better with it and I am building good relationships. Sometimes you can have the same problem as another person but STILL be flabbergasted by the other person when they go to such an even worse extreme. For example, a person who is obese by conventional standards is STILL going to be revolted when they see some person who got written up in the Guiness Book of Worlds Records as the world's heaviest person. So even me, a person who is needy and lonely also, can clearly see that she she has gone way too far.

[@candypettynettie487]

Op is nta. You have to cultivate your relationship in an already made family. Jenny is delu-lu and Nicco is an enabler. Nicco used his family to keep Jenny. She's not being realistic at all. She's a boundary stomper and op brought her back to earth. Op is the ah for scolding the bf. Wtf? What bf said was spot on. I hope bf is side eyeing op.

[@ScottyFang]

I feel bad for the fiancé in story 1, she must feel so lonely

[@patty-pat-pat]

Jikes, Jenny is intense! Imagine them breaking up. That obsession can turn scary!

[@jake8748]

So I think OP meant her BFs moment of insanity is only that he chimed in rather than staying quiet and out of it. No idea why she tried to give him a stern talking to because it's probably exactly what was needed rather than constant beating around the bush

[@josepherhardt164]

3:13 OP is NTA. But Jenny, without a family, has been in survival mode for so long that she now needs therapy to gain a better perspective on life and interactions.

[@ultraviolet2447]

How dare Nico sell his “family” too her as a selling point to get with him and then get mad when she expects that and doesn’t want to be with him when that isn’t the reality. Also was op telling the truth about the comment her boyfriend made, if so then that wasn’t a moment of insanity but he seems to be the only level headed and emotional intelligent one and op needs to take several seats and get into therapy herself. This entire famile minus ops boyfriend is fucked.

[@VictorLiso]

Wow! So much craziness from OP, Jenny, and Nico at different times!

[@tashacooper1753]

That is hard my parents were in foster care so since they didn’t get a happy family they made one or at least tried

[@Lillireify]

Story 1 - eh, I feel bad for Jenny. She's a typical orphaned kid who tries to form relationships extremely quickly and gets invested emotionally far too much in all things. People who don't know abandonment will neber understand where she comes from and how her mind works. And yeah, her actions are pushy and she expects far too much far too fast, and yes, it's pushing peiple away from her.

[@nateperry191]

Everyone in that family other then Op's boyfriend need therapy. Like honestly they are holding onto pain. Her brother's partner needs it for hers. Her parents. All of it. All of them.

[@aselyne5631]

The only person who needs therapy is the one lacking respect for boundaries,and feeling entitled because of childhood trauma.

[@nateperry191]

@@aselyne5631 idk. Their lack of conflict resolution skills. Op's reaction to their parents reasonable add in as 'insanity". Her brother's lack of communication. Actually everyone in this family, minus the boyfriend needs it. They can't communicate and need better boundaries. All of them. It not a bad thing to say all of them need it. Some more then others for sure. But all need it.b

[@damien678]

I'm not an adoptee or former foster kid, but I know what it's like to have no family. It's utterly soul-crushing, and very isolating. It's so easy to hate yourself and feel like if you can't be a part of a family that you might as well be dead, for all you're worth. Obviously you can have worth without having family, but it really hurts.

[@deifieddata4462]

The family really needed to put the onus of disinviting her on her fiance

[@cesaravegah3787]

"Why you can't simply give me the family I want ? !!!", Ok, time to silently go to the door and call CPS, there is a toddler trapped on am adult body

[@SnowyWolborg]

Exactly. I sympathize with Jenny having grown up in the foster care system and not knowing what it's like to belong to a real family. But once that came out of her mouth? She has problems that are not going to be solved by marrying into Niko's family.

[@jartistsimpression2291]

Jenny should honestly get with The Girl who took her date on date-one to meet her family.

[@m.o.4240]

Ooof

[@bionicmagi6388]

I've had someone try to sell me their family as a reason to stay with them while completely mischaracterizing them. I was dating this person during covid, and on our first in person date, we started talking about serious life plan things. Might seem early, but we'd been having online dates for a while, and it was time to start putting more serious topics on the table. We ran into a big life value issue where they were adamant about not wanting kids... and I wasn't sure. They were quick to present their recently married sister as a source of nieces and nephews, suggesting being present in their lives as a substitute for kids I was on the fence about. Months later, they were more open about the fact that they hated their sister and had no intention of being in her or her family's lives at all in the future. I noticed this change in story, but not having nieces and newphews wasn't exactly a deal breaker for me, and I hadn't really clocked the fact that they essentially lied to assuage my concerns and "seal the deal" until we'd already broken up. I am now starting to realize they may have lied about other things too, as some of their stories don't make much sense when paired together.

[@Queen_Of_Discord]

The family from the last story is an absolute shitshow. I feel bad for Jenny and OP's partner

[@BrightsideandLogicalReasoning]

Story one; I thought your children's spouses were your children.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

18:22 💯🎯 Nico truly is TA here! Like I really don’t fully blame Jenny, and I feel like Nico created this problem and allowed it to fester.

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

It’s too bad she hooked up with someone who was pretending to have a family with big hearts. There are families who would have embraced her. I can understand her dream of finally having a loving family, and I truly hope she finds it.

[@slimecorn]

I was thinking the same thing, seems like their family really isn’t all that warm or welcoming. I was basically a part of my fiancé’s family like 1/2 years in. All I had to do was be myself and his family was already pushing for marriage lmao

[@rhondasisco-cleveland2665]

@@slimecorn They sound wonderful & you must be lovely too. I wish everyone could have what you found. Good for you.

[@hazeltulip]

They sound super stand-offish

[@coreymartin6486]

Hope Op's bf takes a good long hard look at their relationship. It wasn't even just a moment lapse of judgement....she's STILL acting like he did something wrong. She purposely initially made it sound like the bf started yelling or something. Combine that with her comment to her brother's fiancee....Idk....she doesn't strike me as a very warm or empathetic person.

[@shanoc5902]

Yeah. The fact that she boiled down his insightful comment as "insanity" that she needed to "lecture" him on is really telling, even though it was said that the entire rest of the session would be about what he said? And then when a commenter gives a bit story and example of how when someone acts out of character it might be because someone is really dropping the ball and OP just dismissed that idea completely even though he was acting out of character and apparently the mediator and other people agreed that it was something that needed to be discussed? OP really needs to be looking in a mirror some, because it's clear that she was wrong here and her unwillingness to accept that is a big red flag.

[@coreymartin6486]

@@shanoc5902 she doesn't make herself sound better at reddit with other commenters either....

[@sorinsilverheart3200]

Jenny doesnt deserve an apology. All theze redditors are high on something if they think soneone who constantly pushes and harasses an entire family after being told MULTIPLE times to stop is okay. Foster care is not an excuse.

[@elliotwarren1090]

God there’s so much going on here and I almost don’t know who to blame other than Nico. Jenny deserves to be in a relationship where the partners family will love and care about them enough that when they get to the fiancé stage, they’re already calling them sister in law, daughter in law, etc. It’s clear that this family dynamic is not that way, and while that’s entirely okay, it’s clear that this isn’t the family Jenny deserves. Which is also okay. When my brother and his wife got together, I started off by calling her my brother’s girlfriend. When they were together for 2.5-3 years, everyone called her daughter in law, sister in law, etc and she started calling my parents mom and dad. That’s what our family dynamic is, an extremely blended family. My family is not the rule, but Jenny clearly wants a family like this because she has… well… no one. While I understand why OP snapped, I can’t condone how they said what they said. Yes, Jenny clearly needs therapy to work through the trauma she suffered, but OP should’ve properly apologized for how they said what they said(maybe not the message behind it). TLDR: OP shouldn’t have said what they said in that harsh of a way, Nico should’ve seen this coming when his family kept bringing up Jenny’s attachment and abandonment issues, and Jenny should leave this situation and find a family who’s dynamic is more what she is looking for as well as get therapy to process the trauma and abandonment and attachment issues.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

4:34 this entire comment is so spot on. I feel bad for Jenny, and I don’t fully think she’s TA, but Nico could’ve helped prevent this. 5:46 I still feel like therapy or something is needed, especially if Nico can’t or won’t help with this.

[@stellamccoy5259]

I understand that Jenny wants to be part of the family, but I think she went it about it the wrong way. People don't like to be strong armed into relationships. What's that old saying, "You can get more bees with honey."

[@javontebrown2099]

Nope you're totally wrong white people are just weird because Jenny was black this would be a problem in a black family op a major asshole and you are just dumass

[@materhead5051]

And she probably has no experience with that and would have had no clue. People just hate people who are open with their love. The "you get more bees with honey" doesn't apply here. If anything, she poured all the honey she had

[@ACAB.forcutie]

​@@materhead5051exactly, bunch of judgemental victim blamers in the comments 😒

[@tfrtrouble]

@@materhead5051 Being pushy and demanding more intimacy from people than they are comfortable with is not being "open with your love", it's being entitled and inappropriate. If a guy won't take no for an answer and keeps asking a girl out and turning up to her work with chocolates, we don't say he is "open with love", we say he is harassing her. Same principle here (though obviously at a lower level); you have to respect people's boundaries and you can't force intimacy on them. If she was really open with her love, she would not want them to be uncomfortable and would respect their need for more space, not demand they change to be "the family she needs". And I say that as someone with no family.

[@ruthsaunders9507]

@@materhead5051 She loves the idea of family not them. Having a person you barely know acting like you're far more than you are is very off putting. Once the creepy vibe is there its hard to overcome.

[@juliearmfield2634]

Story 1. Wow this is so above reddits paygrade it's not even funny. I really feel bad for Jenny but she needs major therapy

[@benjie128]

Nico formed the relationship with her, selling the fact he came from a blended family. He sold her on the idea the family would just encompass her. And now he's upset that she wants the family? He lied in his presentation that he had the full package she wanted. It's like going to a car dealership and wanting a specific car with certain features. And you go, and while they have the car, it doesn't have all the features you want. But a dealership down the road has the car with the features you want. Are you gonna take the car from dealership 1 without the wanted features, or dealership 2 with the features? Nico is dealership 1.

[@natetsh]

Story 1 : op is not the ah. Jenny is. She should understand that her traumas are hers to deal with and nobody else should be affected by it that much. Nico is also an ah for not talking to her, an out her on the right way to heal.

[@agentzapdos4960]

As a grown-up foster kid like Jenny, the only solution is to take us out back with a shotgun and tell us to look at the pretty flowers while you pull the trigger.

[@asherikamichaela8425]

I feel so horrible for Jenny, honestly. I can see both sides of this situation based on my own experience. My childhood was... abusive, in ways that really should've had a number of family tossed in prison. It gave me massive trust issues, so i literally can't _do_ the "instant connection" with only three exceptions in the whole of my life (my daughter, my youngest sister and my best friend). With everyone else, I'm like the Shrek onion meme. Layers, lots and lots of layers. Most people never make it past the first few as this process of trust generally takes years. So when people "come on strong" like that, acting like we have this close relationship that I don't and can't feel at such an early stage as I consider it to be, i get intensely uncomfortable and just want to run (social anxiety and being a natural introvert dont help). On the other hand, I can see my aforementioned sister in Jenny. We're technically half-sibs and she grew up in the system. We found each other as adults when she came into the restaurant where I worked at the time, looking for a job, and it was that first "click" I'd ever experienced (a truly incredible experience, I tell you). She wasn't as pushy as Jenny due to her own massive trust issues, but she definitely had a deep need to belong, to be wanted and cared about. Something like what OP said would've shut her down hard. That would've been the end of everything between her and whoever said that, as well as anyone connected to them, whether the words were well-intentioned or not. OP, i get that you and your family were frustrated, but that _was_ a low blow. Poorly thought and and said in the heat of the moment, but that's often when the true feelings come out, and Jenny no doubt knows that all too well. Yes, Nico is a spineless AH for thinking this would all just blow over "because family" or whatever, but OP, you could have and _should_ have sat Jenny down for a serious heart-to-heart. She clearly doesn't know how boundaries work, any more than she understands a "real family" dynamic. She's never experienced that and it takes time to learn, same as it takes time to get to know someone. Therapy and mediation should've been involved long before now, holy shit.

[@cb9825]

OP never says how old is Jenny. Is she like 19 or 20? Then it all is understandable. She has too little relationship experience. If she is 29 like Nico or older it would be a bit strange to not know how to form a relationship gradually.

[@ACAB.forcutie]

You do understand that 29 is not necessarily old enough to have unpacked all your attachment issues? Especially if your fiance is using them to manipulate you? -someone with similar attachment issues :/ Don't be judgemental of victims. You don't know what it's like. And it could be you tomorrow. Edit: the irony is, you won't ever be able to have _this_ particular trauma. Because you had the privilege of being raised better. Is that why you feel justified in making judgements? Like men about abortion? 🤔

[@sorachitheeggo4440]

@@ACAB.forcutie if girly is 29, she's had plenty of time to learn she has issues. Even if she's only had her fiance and never another boyfriend. Her having trauma is not an excuse to behave in any way like this and everyone's just gotta handle her with kiddie gloves to not hurt her feelings. hell, she should've gotten the hint that something was up, THE FIRST TIME SHE WAS TOLD OFF. Jenny seems to be more interested in pushing until things go her way. maybe that speaks to her trauma, but again. Not anyone else's problem. I highly doubt you'd be this charitable if Jenny was a guy. Guy's should just figure their shit out and gurls gotta be babied through life cuz clearly they can't care for themselves or whatever. And the reason they feel justified in making judgements is because they were asked for them buddy, I mean is that not what you're doing? why are you assuming they've been raised better? you don't know them. what are you, another Jenny?

[@strawberrysangria1474]

I don't think age has anything to do with how well you handle trauma. Maturity has less to do with age, and more so with self-improvement. Not having a family is devastating for Jenny, and Nico made it worse with empty promises. Even if she was 100 years old, her desperation makes sense for her, even if it's not rational to us.

[@ACAB.forcutie]

@@sorachitheeggo4440 gotta love all the assumptions. 🙄 Do I think what Jenny did was right? No. Do I think everyone in the comments are too focused on what she did? Yeah. Do I think what OP said to Jenny was as hurtful as her stepping on people's boundaries? It's hard to compare actions, but yeah, I'd say they're about equally bad. So.. why is everyone only talking about Jenny? Because OP is far more relatable, so we let the thing off the hook. You're literally doing the thing you're accusing me of maybe doing if the situation was about a man, you're giving one person (the person you relate to more) more leeway, yet the person with trauma you cannot fathom, you're more harsh on. Why? Why is what you're actively doing fair, but the hypothetical you're accusing me of isn't?

[@ACAB.forcutie]

@@strawberrysangria1474 exactly.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

S1: NTA. It was harsh wording, but you really can’t force a relationship like this. It feels like Jenny is using the fact that she was raised in foster care as a way to emotionally manipulate OP and the family. Did Nico ever even talk to her? Cuz the lack of boundaries is wild af. ETA: the way OP said it at first didn’t even sound that bad, but then Jenny said how she’d really like to be included in the family since it was the only family she knows and she doesn’t have a proper family, and WTAF do you even say to that? Like, it’s either accept it or pop Jenny’s bubble.

[@briana1242]

I dont think yall understand why she said in a moment of insanity. If a person who normally stays out of family drama, issues and fights says something out of character to a person he does not normally speak to that way in a direct manner. The phrase moment of insanity or fed up is a correct ascertation of events. You dont have to yell or get indignant. Its the same phrase you would use if someone is fed up and start uncontrollably laughing. Get it

[@chrisester2910]

The person who said that foster kids get therapy all the time... former foster care social worker here and not all foster kids get therapy and it isn't necessarily the therapy that they needed or need now. Growing up in foster care created lots of deep, long running issues and she will need to work on that for a long time. So, yes Jenny needs therapy.

[@jbgra2566]

Nico really screwed everything up lol

[@theunknownone5663]

OP's boyfriend is probably sick and tired of her bitching and complaining so he went off. So i don't believe a single word of hers.

[@SJM3187]

If I was “Nico” I would probably tell Jenny, We would have our family(kids and her) instead of letting her on “my family”. Ever since I read this, some people don’t need all the love and should remain dysfunctional refer to OP and her family. Love that westerners shy away from affection but jump on the hook up bandwagon at the first mention.

[@DrownedInExile]

I have to disagree with Markee, there's no miscommunication here. Jenny was told again and again to stop being so pushy. She failed to respect that boundary repeatedly. And Nico sounds like a giant simp. OP should not apologize, she did nothing wrong. Update: now it's ESH. Jenny is toxic and selfish. Nico sucks for selling his family to her, like some kind of prize. But when he finally grows a pair and rightly chews her out, OP wants to call him insane. I really hope Nico breaks up with Jenny, but also puts OP in her place.

[@paulaanderson9770]

I get the impression that OP wasnt very welcoming to begin with. Seems like there was no effort on her part to get to know her.

[@nightdweller6446]

Markee summed it uo in his barrel of monkeys comment. BF might be reconsidering HIS relationship now

[@LOLtz1]

I'm surprised no one called out Nico for saying he was prepared to cut off his family for her. He's not not being the hero in situation but is tge toxic one.

[@agentzapdos4960]

He's trying to be Captain Save-A-Ho but foster kids can't be saved. We're too broken by the system and will never be part of society.

[@jjr9792]

ESH. This is what I don't understand: Parents: "Jenny, please don't call us 'Mom & Dad'" Jenny: Stops briefly, and then starts again ...So why haven't the parents said, "Jenny we asked you last time you visited not to call us 'Mom and Dad'. WHY are you doing it again?" ... And then listened closely to Jenny's explanation, responding as needed (ie: If Jenny said "Sorry, I forgot", then reply "Well, it really bothers us when you do it, so how can we help you remember not to do it next time?" Op could have easily done the same re: sex life/therapy/medications/etc. To me, this seems like an obvious thing to do in order to curb unwanted behaviors, so I genuinely want to know: Why didn't anyone in Op's family attempt it?

[@NeloBladeOfRanni]

Ima call bs on foster kids attemding therapy the entire time they are in foster care as a former foster kid

[@liquidglow21]

Op and her bf are true monsters.

[@LittleImpaler]

I really feel bad for Jenny, I really do. She just wants to be loved and accepted. I understand the family being annoyed with her. But OP's comment really hurt. I don't know how mentiator did things. But I hope he explains how and why she is feeling. Why she does things. A terrible situation.

[@notevenlistening6072]

Good morning! Glad to hear your voice 😊

[@dmb25108]

Moment of insanity could have been a typo for a moment of insight.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

7:18 also a good point. These are a lot of unknowns. I don’t agree with ESH tho, cuz OP was pushed to this point. Nico and/or OP should def talk to Jenny properly.

[@επιθετικόακτινιδιο]

It feels like Nico took advantage of Jenny's needs, without considering his family's needs. Not consciously, but he did. Deep down he must have sensed that this was a "deal breaker" Yes he is an AH, but Jenny is set up for failure. I do not angry with the commenter who said she does not need any more therapy. He does not know what he is talking about. What if she was like this with Nico because she was deprived of relationships? Wouldn't everybody agree without hesitation that he must brake up? That she is a red flag? You cannot go on one date and deside that someone is a life partner. OP was spot on. Only your parents can love you unconditionally, but IT DOES NOT work this way with other people. You cannot meet strangers and instantly decide they are your family. She is way to fixated on this. She does not want a relationship, she wants to be instantly adopted. The only family that would accept this, would be a very controlling family That is why I believe she is set up for failure. No partner will ever accept that nor his family Ps: She was asked directly not to call them "mom and dad". Everyone else would be hurt or offended. But nope. She was dismissive, pushy, clingy to an irritating degree. She will never have a "family". She will always be the intruder

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

12:04 this is all perfectly reasonable, like OP somewhat understands how Jenny feels, but this sounds like it has been building for a min and it really sounds like Nico is the issue here. NAH except Nico.

[@cindyskullz]

Maybe Jenny dodged a bullet with this family cause holy crap they’re all bad. But then again OP seems to be so horrible with words and seems to choose the worse extremes to describe a simple situation. Like when she called her bf insane for calmly speaking his mind in an intervention. Honestly they all need help.

[@macylouwho1187]

Lol at the person who claimed that foster parenting is some sort of windfall payday unless you take on 10 kids permanently AND deprive them of basics. Are you freakin kidding me? It’s no payday 😂. I did it just because I knew what it felt like to be an abused child who needed a safe stable place, and I learned a lot about what foster care in the US does NOT provide these kids with. I spent more money taking proper care of them on a state budget that absolutely did not cover it. I paid out of pocket on expenses so that the kids in my care (short term placements what what I did) could live like my own kids did while staying in my home. No difference in care. You would have to cut every cost, scrimp on every dime, feed the cheapest food, only purchase them four outfits total at Walmart prices to make even the slightest amount off foster parenting. We’re talking no extra snacks, no extracurriculars-no movies, no pool swimming no no no nothing fun. The state will only pay for the most bare bones of care. The people doing this for money cut all of those corners and probably more to make money off it and would need a pack of foster kids at all times. I wouldn’t do that and I spent money so that they could live like regular kids in our area for the two weeks to a month that I had a child here. We had a lot of kids come and go because that’s what I signed up for. I had limited space due to having my own kids at the time so I did what I could with what I had. But I was there long enough to see how things worked and it wasn’t good. The barest of essentials is what they’ll pay for, nothing more.

[@alg94]

I feel for op. my brother briefly had a girlfriend like Jenny. suddenly she was calling me her sister in law and whenever my brother would leave his dog with my parents for a weekend while he worked she would say they were "empty nesters". I had never met or spoken with this woman and that's not what that term means. they didn't even live together, they had been dating for less than 6 months. they broke up I think like a week after the phone call where she said they were empty nesting lol

[@mywingsareyours]

THANK YOU!!! lmao OP is a completely unreliable narrator so it's impossible to really tell who is actually at fault. We only have OP's words on everything and they have proven to have a very skewed view of things

[@Gymtoshi]

Story 1: a little harsh on the way it was stated, but, as someone who is adopted, I understand what it’s like to have abandonment syndrome, to feel unwanted, unloved, like your place in this world doesn’t exist. Feelings of uselessness, feelings of being unlovable and feeling fear with a lack of stability, it’s awful! I think op and the family should have talked to her in a more polite way, but definitely NTA

[@tartlynerdy]

NTA. I feel sorry for Jenny but she can't force relationships like this. Maybe one day Jenny have children and create the family she's always wanted but right now she has to work to earn the relationships she wants from the family of whomever she's dating at the time. Genuine connection takes time. Jenny just wanted everything handed to her. Nico should have actually talked to Jenny to tone it down instead of pretending to do something to get his family off his back. I feel like he had no right to be upset when he knew from the start Jenny just wanted to be part of a family.

[@colleens1107]

What a crazy story…a true every sucks here…except for OPs bf. Why the fuck did OP describe his very calm and very intuitive response to Jenny as a moment of insanity. Honey, he was 100% correct and you lambast him for speaking up? Sheesh poor guy

[@TessuDraws]

Nico is the true asshole here, screwing everyone over at the same time. But Jenny needs A LOT of therapy. I think they all do tbh

[@GiordanDiodato]

story 1: NTA. Jenny needs therapy more than ever.

[@mgen278]

Dude. That comment is gonna stay with her for-ev-er

[@boopboop2771]

Idk Jenny is definitely out of line but considering why a gentler approach might have been better. She didn't even know about the issue.

[@agentzapdos4960]

As another former foster kid, we're not really capable of forming genuine connections organically over time. It's instant trauma-bonding or nothing. We're truly beyond saving and a burden to society. Stories like mine and Jenny's wouldn't happen if abortion, sterilization procedures, and contraception were free and universally available.

[@lindsay1989]

I just feel bad for Jenny

[@orchidoxs126]

I feel so bad for Jenny and everyone except for Nico. He kept getting her hopes up. And just hoped it would work itself out. She has things to work on and I truly hope things turn out for the better for her. I hope she can reflect in her behavior. But I still wanna know why op chewed out her bf for being honest.

[@deballen7031]

That last story was full of hot potatos so there were bound to be burnt fingers.😬

[@eileenherrera2510]

Seems like there was a lot of blame to spread around in this story. Nico oversold his family and it’s dynamic to his gf. OP was way to aggressive in her push back to the gf. The gf seems to be extremely self-centered in her needs and has almost no sense of empathy for anyone else. Markee is right that the OP’s bf is the only sane one in the bunch.

[@ioannageor180]

Everyone, expect for maybe Op's bf, needs therapy

[@vampire9545]

Op said insane because if my wife even said anything that woule be so out of character of her she might as well had a lapse in sanity. Conversely, If I keep my mouth shut that would be insane behavior out of me. It's called exaggeration. Look it up sometime

[@ObsidianFaux]

Lol wonder why no one was talking about the fact that the brother was ready to drop his family for jenny