Karl Pilkington, the Onion, and the Problem of Free Will

A clip the Ricky Gervais Show that illustrates the problem of free will. He's easy to make fun of, but Pilkington actually makes a pretty profound observation here.
Note: I am using this for educational purposes only. I do not have the rights. those belong to Gervais and HBO.

[@splendidmate]

I love these Karl moments where he's on the verge of making a half decent point, like he's almost onto something, but Ricky and Steve mischievously interpret what he's saying for the sake of comedy.

[@jaytc3613]

tpl89 ikr

[@shanefoy3720]

All the time lol, used to be annoyed from time to time with it, as sometimes Steve and Ricky's comedy isn't worth interrupting carl sometimes that is 😂😂😂

[@picklesnorf101]

This is actually an extremely profound question. Philosophers debate this exact thing all the time.

[@picklesnorf101]

***** What a logical and well reasoned argument.

[@PaladinswordSaurfang]

And actual neuroscientists like Sam Harris would have said just what Ricky Gervais said in response to the question: The mind and the brain are not two separate things! Every part of the mind is produced by a different part of the brain.

[@Yanate1991]

PaladinswordSaurfang I'm about to cry... "Actual neuroscientists like Sam Harris"... my god... look up "appeal to authority" Sam Harris is not taken seriously in neither philosophy nor neuroscience, he has no experience in any of the fields, his book "Free Will" relies on pure rhetoric and no actual arguments, aswel as over-relience on libets experiments, which requires you to assume physicalism, then layer assumption upon assumption to see as an argument against free will.

[@PaladinswordSaurfang]

***** "Sam Harris is not taken seriously in neither philosophy nor neuroscience, he has no experience in any of the fields" Idiot. I just hear assertion after assertion. It's clear that you don't like Sam Harris, but can you actually provide any real arguments? Oh, and an appeal to authority is not always a fallacy. You're the one who needs to look it up.

[@Yanate1991]

Again, if you want any evidence, you can look it up yourself, but you won't, because Sam Harris is your god and hero. I have not met a single philosopher on philosophy forums that take Sam Harris seriously, and if you want to ignore this, go ahead, he certainly didin't convince me. It's clear that you worship Sam Harris, and you think he is some kind of authority in those fields. He has done undergraduate work in philosophy, and done basically no studies in neurology, and he wrote a book that was slammed among philosophers but since its all rhetoric, people like you swallowed it, because you can finaly understand a philosophy book. :)

[@godmode9]

Today I learned that Karl is Descartes

[@DriscolDevil]

godmode9 without all that silly Latin stuff.

[@DaVince21]

You could call him Deskarltes.

[@elliot7110]

Ricky and Steve are just as confused as Karl on this

[@gunnarstratton2759]

they're more confused, because at least karl is thinking of it as a question

[@kevincarballo1]

You sure that its nor karl thats confusing them?

[@ArrakisHeir88]

No it's just the two of them pretending not to understand him for a bit even though he's right.

[@finmetalwarrior]

In this case I think Karl is asking a good question: are we more than our brain? And if so, are we controlling our body or vice-versa.

[@Maxflay3r]

_SUDDENLY ONION_

[@YourPalHDee]

Karl and Steve would rather get caught up in semantics and pretend they don't know what he means than just explain Karl's error in expression to him

[@owenswift4882]

+YourPalHDee You mean Ricky and Steve

[@YourPalHDee]

+Owen Swift lmfao, yeah sorry I had Karl on the brain

[@Phagocytosis]

Do you mean your brain had Karl in mind, or that you were thinking of Karl?

[@Afterthoughtbtw]

They're kind of both right. You are your brain, but there are parts of your brain that work away without you being consciously aware of them and directing them. They'll sometimes pop up and 'speak' to you. (Like - oh! remember the onion!) So you have an 'observing' you which feels outside of the rest of your thoughts, and then 'your brain' which seems to be something different. To see what I mean, just try not to think of anything (by observing your breathing or something) and you'll find thoughts just pop up seemingly on their own.

[@Lmclean89]

no

[@tarponpet]

Lmclean89 What a profound and well thought out response.

[@ArrakisHeir88]

Nah, Karl is right.

[@CustardBananaCat]

I love how Karl has such an observant, curious and down to earth way of seeing and thinking of things and Ricky and Stephen always laugh at his supposed dumbness and weird ideas when he makes so much sense.

[@samhassan683]

hes echoing sam harris but in a really linguistically reductive way

[@bigol9223]

sam hassan Sam Harris echoes all on his own.

[@ubernaffa]

Ironically, he has given an example of one of the finest thought experiments that's used to demonstrate the genuine absence of free will.

[@RaggedM88]

Karl makes a lot of sense actually. I relate to a lot of it. Love these podcasts.

[@finalcountdown3210]

I think Ricky's being a little harsh to Karl in this one. We talk about this all the time what with the mind vs the brain, conscience vs unconscience etc

[@Modinthalis]

Karl is kind of right here. We are mere observers of the products of our brain, and we can't account for how thoughts pop into our heads.

[@dnskskxndbdjsjdj]

I'm making you think of this comment

[@3styler1]

everyone should have a friend like karl, hours of great conversations

[@galefray]

What he's saying is that thoughts emerge from an ether that is not susceptible to a concious author. Otherwords, the fact that the onion suddenly entered his mind, made him think: "How come I thought of onion and not something else" or maybe even "Where did the thought of the onion come from, I certainly wasn't concious of it?" And further more, makes you think: "What exactly am I concious of?" "Which actions DO I author out of my free will?"

[@Cresanova]

People here seem to think that the yt comment section of a Ricky Gervais Show video is the right place for a serious scientific debate, especially by people with no actual knowledge of the matter (actually of any matter). I especially love the "Karl is actually right" -type of comments - like Ricky and Steve weren't perfectly aware of the situation. This is comedy after all. Yes, you are very observant, clever and unique, you've shown that, now please kindly bugger off

[@janderson2709]

Morgan Ban Bogol hear hear

[@ManForToday]

Karl's just trying to account for why his thoughts appear in his consciousness. Sam Harris deals with this excellently.

[@chattingesque372]

The pop culture atheist?

[@ManForToday]

@@chattingesque372 This was 7 years ago. I've changed my mind a lot. Not a fan of Sam Harris at all.

[@chattingesque372]

@@ManForToday I can respect that!

[@AYVYN]

I believe there’s different parts of memory, it’s still hilarious how Karl notices them

[@TheNemuki]

That's what i love about Karl Pilkington, he is a very deep person, but always finds the most simple way to phrase things, he does my favorite kind of humor completely naturally! Any stand up humorist would want this brain.

[@TheCrusaderRabbits]

It is actually a profound question.

[@armstrongmutuma]

I'm with Karl on this one, I mean how else do you explain irrational phobias, ocd , random thoughts etc? An example is people who are hydrophobic. Why would you fear water ? Yes I know you can drown but there are other things that can kill you as well that you don't necessarily fear like knives , cars etc. What makes you have Selective phobias?

[@RoosterCogburnPhD]

Carl's not wrestling specifcally with his brain, but different parts of it. What he was saying here was his naive approach to the difference of eidetic memory (total recall, photographic), Declarative memory (searching your mind for some specific memory), and Procedural memory (unconscious memories that pop up, onion lobe). He makes a rational point, just not one that makes any sort of scientific sense. He's actually pretty smart to be able to notice and discern things like this, despite not knowing anything about their natures.

[@elastic8]

negative life experiences usually from childhood

[@morrison999uk]

I'm not my brain, I'm somebody completely different.

[@jacknewsome2981]

wrong

[@lessevdoolbretsim]

The way Ricky sizes up Karl's various lines of thinking (or not) is by far the best part.

[@knap-dalf2215]

In a sense we don't have free will as from the perspective of your conscious self (i.e. your self awareness and experience) you don't have free will at some deep level as thoughts simply arise in consciousness, you have no idea what your next thought will be...and thoughts ultimately dictate your actions. Also there's a lot of external factors that you have absoloutely no control over. Plus it is highly plausible that we live in a completely deterministic universe. HOWEVER If you consider yourself to be your brain, like Mr Gervais said, then you can be said to make conscious decisions, therefore can be said to possess free will. Also the fact that we don't know the future can be used as a defense for free will.

[@Yanate1991]

Ehm, determinism has been falsified by quantum mechanics and is now completely discredited. Sorry, but don't post bullshit in the comments assuming that you are the only one who has googled these words. :)

[@knap-dalf2215]

Google definition of determinism: "the doctrine that all events, including human action, are ultimately determined by causes regarded as external to the will." Quantum mechanics is external to the will. Quantum mechanics falsifies the idea that everything can be predicted. Sorry if I haven't represented determinism accurately enough. :) NB: I hadn't assumed I was the only one who had "googled these words" at all. By the way I first came to know what determinism is through reading books, now I could have a go at you for assuming things, but I won't. :)

[@Yanate1991]

"All events" means all events, not all events in human action. Again, you are talking about a "completely deterministic universe" and quantum mechanics has certainly falsified that, that's all I'm saying.

[@knap-dalf2215]

Okay fair enough.

[@Yanate1991]

But all this is only relevant if you are a reductionist, keep that in mind.

[@ALJR223]

typical Ricky gervaise-- 2nd graders grasp of deep philosophical issues that come naturally to Karl Pilkington

[@gus_abreu]

This is one of my favorite sketches

[@neobahamut0]

The part that got me was when he said "there's not like, two brains, the thinking brain then another "meta" brain" and I thought to myself, "Isn't that EXACTLY what a lot of theories say, more or less?"

[@Fourzerotw0]

This style of animation makes me physically ill.

[@TheKarate10]

You should see a doctor about that, son.

[@aintgonnahappen]

Karl is on the precipice of a nice thought there; he's talking about our soul. He just didn't make the rest of the leap, but it made some sense I think.

[@JazzyWaffles]

aintgonnahappen Actually he's talking about the conscious and unconscious minds, but he lacks the vocabulary to express himself.

[@SethMacMillan]

While Karl's wording is a bit off, this actually is a great question to debate. I'd actually agree with him that, if such a situation occurred, without sensory input, the brain would not learn - extremely well that is. Likely, there would be some thoughts and dreams in some abstract sense but it wouldn't necessarily just create concepts like "sound is just pressure waves created in the air." While the brain is a machine, in charge of the complex processes that help to keep the body alive, there is a slight disconnect. An "extra" is a good way to describe it. The unconscious is another perfect title. Regardless of terminology, the body and who (insert name) is are not always one in the same. For some reason, I have a deep admiration for and of Karl and his thoughts. At base value, it can sound like ignorance but a lot of what he says can be picked apart for a deeper meaning. I'd like to bring this question in front of a load of psychologists and psychiatrists - and hope they don't ignore the deeper question and jsut check me in for an evaluation.

[@hatfinch]

I don't feel like I'm external to my brain. The seat of my consciousness feels to me like it's behind my eyes and between my ears.

[@TheMarkoSeke]

Reminds me of: Ricky: "Who am I talking to right now, you or your brain?" Karl: "Right now it's... me, I think." Ricky: "Are you going to get your brain involved at some point?"

[@LeahBandB]

This sounds like the debate we had about the mind vs. the brain in my philosophy class.

[@comicconcarne]

The thing with central nervous systems is that there's all the bits collecting information and sometimes responding on their own (recoiling from a pinprick only signals your spine which then goes back to the pricked spot, and heartbeat typically only reaches the cerebellum), along with the cerebrum or forebrain which interpret information with more complexity. Something in the environment probably stimulated him to think of an onion.

[@Sneezedoodle]

lmao at Ricky's expression when he said, "You did!"

[@Tukan777]

"Does the brain control you or are you controlling the brain? I don't know if I'm in charge of mine."

[@AeronN7]

It DOESN'T go through a filter of any kind, that is the marvellous thing about it haha

[@Danielpi]

No. He's not asking a psychological question. He's asking a question about free will--a philosophical question.

[@Siberius-]

It's funny/interesting because Ricky Gervais doesn't subscribe to Libertarian Free Will (at least now he doesn't). So from my understanding, Ricky in this clip is talking more about what the "self" is, and Karl is getting more at the nature of Libertarian Free Will. Ricky identified with, and thought, that we are our brains/thoughts, when in reality we are not our thoughts and we don't control them. Which then gets to what Karl was saying with the onion in this clip. If one takes notice (which isn't difficult), thoughts just arise into our conscious awareness. We don't freely author them. They just pop up, and then we incorrectly take ownership of them, as if we freely consciously authored them. We generally become identified with thought, as if they are US, when they are not. The thoughts just pop up all on their own. There is no Libertarian Free Will going on there. We do not think our thoughts before we think them.

[@MORGAN1992FREEM4N]

"do i control my brain or does my brain control me?" = MIND BLOWN

[@ThatOldBiddy]

Karl You are great! I love that you question what most of us are too jaded to question. Thank you.

[@HobbesJD1]

A bizarre dream I had last night. I was a hospital orderly. A guy was wheeled in on a bed and the doctor standing next to me said it was a mo job. I thought in my dream what is a mo job? Then thought it must mean a motorway job i.e the guy is going to be in a really bad state. He was - never got to see him but the figure under the sheet was in a very unnatural position and he was making some very awful sounds. Woke up and thought how can your own brain invent a phrase like a mo job that you have to think about yourself (in a dream) to understand. Just by chance I watched this today. Weird.

[@Eureka60]

at 0:15, karl's like "just think about that for a bit."

[@soaponaroapDG]

I can't believe this finished... New season pl0x!

[@Ultrawixon]

"it was just like - 'Onion!'" *heavenly choir* "do I need me gloves, it's cold out... suddenly onion" I'd like to see all episodes written down, it would be funny in its own way.

[@galaxything]

Carls question is actually a good one, Scientists and philosophers have pondered the question of the 'ghost in the machine' for ever. "Who is me the one that uses my brain.." It provokes the question of conciousness and the human spirit / soul.

[@fleeco12]

I do philosophy of mind at A-level, and it's so interesting to see Karl default to a Substance Dualist position of some sort, or even an Epiphenomenalism position, whilst Ricky goes straight to Smart's Identity Theory

[@connor_selby]

ricky's head is so far up hard science's arse its unbelievable

[@drdimensional2398]

Brain controls the body you control the brain

[@Vitreeol]

... "Meditation is a tool, which increases awareness of self to the point, where one can find and access one's own consciousness"

[@MsAngie1945]

"Who reminded me of that?" "You did!" + the looks on their faces! :D

[@lovesmusik1]

This show is one of comedy. I like to assume that Ricky and Stephen genuinely know that their friend Karl isn't actually an idiot - just like most of us know he's not an idiot. They're making fun of him because it's FUNNY, not because they truly think he's a moron.

[@wesofx8148]

You can think of your brain as a computer and your body as external hardware. Your brain processes and remembers information, while your body takes in information from the outside world for your brain. Your eyes give you all the visual information you need, your ears give you all the audio information you need, and your nerves bring in all the physical information you need, etc. With all this sensory input, your brain can paint the picture of reality. But only in as much detail as your senses.

[@Moontouchofficial]

His onion example still stands strong. He didn't order for the onion to come to come to his thinking. I'd imagine in biological psychology that it has to do with consciousness. We are not conscious of all parts of our brain, so whatever that part is that caused the onion to be thought about, it sort of acted on its own, sending the onion idea to a part that we do "own" and are conscious of.

[@EstoyLigado]

"karl pilkington.... the problem of free will" *clicks video* "This oughtta be good.."

[@melonberryable]

i am conciousness i think therefore i am, i am all what is and ever shall be.

[@Rkenichi]

What’s odd is what Ricky says about a meta brain not existing is probably in fact exactly what’s happening in terms of higher levels of consciousness. It’s just that there is an illusion that consciousness is restricted to the brain.

[@DaVince21]

"Note: I am using this for educational purposes only." Pretty humorous to include that in the description.

[@cool10049]

Yeah i was going to say that. Carl actually asks a very good question. Humans do have a conscience/self-awareness that is currently unexplained.

[@hybro8]

Our brain is the person we are, regardless of looks or thoughts

[@ShyGuyXXL]

What Karl is getting at but can't put into words is simply consciousness versus subconsciousness. When he was writing the shopping list he was consciously thinking about what to buy, but when the onion thought popped into his head it was a subconscious thought.

[@Lewa500]

Because we're intelligent enough to become self-aware, and once you're self-aware, you have a consciousness. One inherent trait of the consciousness is to be its own agent. That's why you feel like you have a "soul" that is separate from your body, because your brain is intelligent enough to be aware of the body's self and become an agent of the body.

[@thetravelinghermit]

What confuses me is using the positive (choice) in place of the negative (no choice). What I'm hearing is that we should encourage others (implying that we can choose to), but in the same breath saying we cannot choose to...that negates the ENTIRE point...

[@soul2stake]

2:42 "you are your brain if you are anything you are your mind your brain your collection of memories your personality, your not what you look like" quite profound if only more people would realize this

[@squirttg]

Karl switches writing hands. at 0:32, he's left-handed, but at 1:30, he writes 'onion' with his right hand

[@thetravelinghermit]

So you're saying it does provide output but that the output is already determined, because it was already extant in the input (or previous inputs)?

[@freakkiller277]

I'm an agnostic person but your comment intrigued me, it may be possible that there is a religious force or spiritual plain in effect if there is no explanation for consciousness in this century. I hope it's further explored as it's a very thought-provoking topic

[@junjalapeno7773]

My neuroscientist professor said that the brain are all different people in charge of specific things and says a lot of different things

[@JacksInn]

I love that he thought of an onion. Which looks to have only one surface but it turns out it has many layers.

[@melzymoomin888]

I was just thinking that. Everyone has an inner voice which is their conscious mind talking, where you are actively thinking things, and then I think what Karl was trying to say was that deeper in your unconscious mind something makes you remember things even though you weren't even trying to.

[@blainy-o93]

Karl Pilkington, The Onion, And The Problem of Free Will - the long anticipated sequal to The Lion, The Witch And The Wardrobe.

[@Ebvardh]

Something similar happened when he wrote in his diary that "there are so many sounds in the universe, every sound must've been used at least five times". They also laughed at him that time because they were saying he was stupid for thinking someone chooses sounds, but he was talking about how certain sounds we hear probably pass through the same frequencies more than once and different sounds share equal pitches. Karl actually ponders much more complicated stuff these two give him credit for.

[@zerr0ww]

to be fair this is actually a really valid philosophical point by karl. shows he's actually really clever.

[@ThePeaceableKingdom]

I used to think the brain was the most amazing, wonderful organ in my body. Then I remembered who was telling me this...

[@UprisingFX]

i think karl was talking about the 'unconscious' part of the brain (the part that makes you breath naturally, that makes you blink etc)

[@Modinthalis]

Karl is observing the fact that we are not the authors of our thoughts. Things pop into our head and we have no way to account for it. There is no free will.

[@DimentalLabs]

@Apanzon Where did you get a silly idea like that?

[@gman8471]

Anyone reminded of those bits in the Simpsons where Homer says to himself eg. "Alright brain, we've got work got to do" the brain goes "Eat the pudding, eat the pudding" and he says "Alright but then we get to work"

[@Neeboopsh]

one of the videos in the related/featured box at the end of the video, is a lecture by sisyphusredeemed. i recommend his channel for discussion of these topics in depth

[@toenail7456]

Thanks again. Yes mental problem's can be over seen in some way for sure, even though it can seem real hard. Like i previously mentioned, i tend to use negativity as a learning curve in some way i guess to use for happiness in the long run. (As like a two steps back, three forward sort of thing) I just hope people can use these kind of skills also sometimes who are in the same situation as that. Then im sure life would be more pleasant for them too. Cheers.

[@Billd0z3r]

We are all the onion. Best sermon i've ever heard.

[@LeatherCladVegan]

'Karl's sense of self is merely the subjective experience of his brain at work. Karl is not the brain/train driver, the train drives itself, but it passes some information onto the conscious mind, sometimes, and it is this second-hand information which Karl considers 'himself'. He thinks he has thought of rice himself, but his brain did it for him, and passed the information onto his conscious self.

[@AdvancePlays]

Both Ricky and Karl have valid points. I agree with Karl on the point of a subconscious mind and a conscious mind, but I agree with Ricky on the point that there isn't as large a difference between.

[@thetravelinghermit]

...that showed that what we consider a conscious choice is simply awareness arising from the previously made decision by that part of the brain that we are not consciously aware of.

[@Modinthalis]

You CAN say there are no ghosts in the machine if you know that the mechanisms are deterministic (perhaps with randomness). No matter how complex the system is (think about a supercomputer), it's composed of smaller parts which are easier to understand (with computers transistors, with brains, neurons). If you're striving for absolute certainty, you won't get it outside of the realms of logic and maths.

[@SarahB360]

Depends in which sense you use the term 'you', but the most refined thing that can be called you, if you broke yourself down into your various parts, is your brain matter. Anything else can be removed/changed or modified, and you would still have the same thoughts, feelings, personality etc. If you do anything to the brain however, everything that constituted 'you' changes or dissappears.

[@cronopiobeatle]

Karl is one of the best philosophers of our era. He actually reinvented the concept of philosopher.

[@S0JKAM1KAZ1]

SHIT IM STUCK IN THE PILKINGTON LOOP AGAIN!! HELP!!!!

[@DerekEveroski]

i dont know if im in charge of my onion.......

[@Malusdarkblade]

Ricky has often said he thinks of Karl as something of a genius, if also an idiot. Its what makes him so interesting.

[@davidfox1983]

It's great how somebody who's supposed to be "stupid" and everything can invoke such a conversation as everyone is having in these comments.

[@lou2bozzy]

Karl just described, "Tabular Rasa", "Dualism" and "Frauds levels of consciousness" - They are some complex philosophical ideas - yet ricky and merchant chuckle at him - TUT TUT TUT ! Karl is the man !

[@Jonpoo1]

Ricky studied philosophy and Smerch loves the Smiths (does the body rule the mind or does the mind rule the bodyyyyy…). Of course they know he’s making a good point - they just keep pressing to get the best out of Karl. If Karl had actually gone to school imagine how powerful he’d be.

[@distantraven2566]

So, what karl was saying makes complete sense. Your central nervous system and your system communicates. Your stomach tells you, you are full after 30 minutes or so, it takes up to 5 hours to tell your brain it has enough water in its system to stay hydrated. Cravings of the body come at its time.... Low carbs can manifest itself as THIRST and so on. So you arent in control, but its the subconsious that is in control in tandem of your bodily needs.

[@botleydot]

I think what Karl was talking about was really the body vs. mind. Like why isn't there communication between the brain's control of the body. It might be like "dude, the immune system put up a fight, but a cancer cell got through. It's gone for your left toe."

[@Jackskellington9100]

What season and episode is this?

[@shaddix37]

Everybody loves to defend the loveable underdog Karl, and I LOVE him too! But, the most profound thing said here is from Gervais: If you are anything, you are your brain.

[@Dayoldsushy]

Because he's actually right. We don't control the thoughts we have and free will doesn't exist. This is probably the most genius thing Karl has ever said.

[@pranav1]

well put. its frustrating that people discount the significance of this very fact. To be quite honest, if I knew as much (or as little) as Karl, I would never come up with majority of what he says. Give karl some credit guys

[@daveykirkham4214]

'Does the body rule the mind, or does the mind rule the body... I dunno' - Morrissey. Proof that folks from Manchester think alike.