Legendarily Pointless Additions

[@Preachgaming]

I'll take my leave as the argument rages on. I hope you keep it civil. Having read through the hundreds of comments, insults, dislikes and scarily cliche arguments such as 'tryhards, too serious and epeen waving;. There is a clearly noticeable trend. The against has cited, as well as I have, several real tangible reasons why this system needlessly affects others and causes real in game issues for many. The for has presented nothing, not one in game scenario where this is an actual benefit. I mean genuine examples of further propping up your gameplay and being a much needed addition to your gaming experience that wasn't present previously.

[@EGGDEATHBRINGER]

+Preach Gaming Why don't they make them only use able in open world and Challenge mode Dungeons. Solves most of the current foreseeable issues other than the reason they put them in the game in the first place.

[@MrXshot]

+Preach Gaming You've done well, fought the good fight good sir. We must realize that some people don't have the games best interests in mind, but only their own. They're so short-sighted, that they'd make the game experience lesser for others if it means they get shiny, superficial upgrades, in regards to the content they do, without actually having to put time or effort into it while simultaneously making people like you forced to spend more time outside of what you enjoy doing. All we can do is hope Blizzard has more sense and foresight than these people, and have the balls to endure the shit storm from these people when they find out killing that boar over there won't have a chance at making them a God. Keep on keepin on Preach!

[@Plusimurfriend]

+Preach Gaming confirmed that its only for dungeons. dont worry it wont work in pvp/pve.

[@MrXshot]

+EGGDEATHBRINGER Let's take the challenge out of challenge modes, sounds reasonable. "Hey see that sexy Mage over there in that multicolored wizard armor from completing all the challenge modes? Yea, he ran all the challenges with a party of RNG winners rocking gear with effects that effectively make them twice, if not more, powerful than others of the same class that didn't win the lottery." Oh, wait...now theres absolutely no meaning or pride to be had in donning that prestigious set of armor.

[@theresidentone]

+Preach Gaming It makes it more fun? It is a game no? Get a RNG legendary what's the point in Diablo then or getting the most powerful item in Skyrim or Fallout what's the point without raiding? It's character progression and non raiders and raiders need an alternative progression path they can sink as much or more time into. It's personal preference and for peole who can't commit to raiding because of irregular schedule. Some effects are group based and the ilvl is 940 so I can't see them being BiS for long who knows they might have upgrade items planned for raids that drop like the Archimonde ring upgrade so keep your pants on till we get clarification on theses things, Legion only went into Alpha so much to be added still.

[@Nobbel87]

I would farm the shit out of anything in the world to get shiny nuts. Pop my wings, pop my holy balls...GO TIME

[@Dronotank]

Holy nuts paladin cooldown confirmed.

[@GlaedeligKageDag]

+Nobbel87 What a glorious comment, made my day, thanks!

[@xandara75]

+Nobbel87 even if you only have a 1/100 000 000 000 000 000 000 chance to ever get one of these?

[@TheCostimen]

+xandara75 dude ...shinei nuts...didn't hear?

[@sinklar7946]

+Fallerup She's a futa ;)

[@asmongold1341]

There's really no point in trying to argue with "casual" players like the ones you were talking about in the video. I get people like that all the time and at this point I just troll them and move on, there's no point trying to reason people out of a position that they didn't reason themselves into. They're going to think whatever they want regardless of what you say or what facts are presented. In regards to legendary items, I'm kind of torn on the issue, I like the idea of gear with special effects but I do think it's blatant spectacle creep by making them legendaries rather than just epics. Ultimately, the only difference is the color and they don't even follow the same paradigm as any other legendary in the history of the game. Blizzard said that there's going to be a way to "target" the legendaries that you're farming, so I'm really kind of waiting to see how that targeting is going to work and how long it will take to actually get the items. It seems that Blizzard is doubling down on their RNG approach in Legion where instead of having an item that you're working towards, you're randomly awarded items until you get the one you want. Personally I find this really disappointing as it takes the agency away from the player and removes the correlation between effort and reward. While RNG in WoW can be good, I don't like how your fate is tied to it in the same way that it is now.

[@D1str1ct]

+Asmongold welcome to diablo:Legion

[@jayd8091]

+Asmongold If there is a way to 'target' a legendary then it may work similar to the D3 zone completion quests similar to how you find a Ring of Royal Grandeur, except it's just farmed. But that's just a guess pulled out the air based on how Blizzard are trying to induce some WoW changes based on the D3 model (not that I dislike the D3 wardrobe idea).

[@reportmelolz]

+Asmongold I'm tempted to post this video to the general forums and just bathe in the downvotes and anger.

[@IshayuG]

+Asmongold Completely agree.

[@ImTheElephantInTheBathroom]

+Asmongold Much more reasonable i can get behind this.

[@HimePenguin]

"Hey, are you guys ready to raid?" "Yeah... you got a legendary, right?" "No... I tried the entire weekend but nothing dropped" "Oh... Didn't Larry get a legendary while leveling up?" "Yeah" "Ok, then we'll take him with us instead of you"

[@snugglepuff9717]

+Philosopher Brian kind of bad if you have to make your own guild and leave all of your friends because of that. Also, the raiders are simply going with their best option

[@HimePenguin]

***** It might not be as bad as I make it out to be. I'm sure there's gonna be people kind enough to let you join in on the raid. But there's always gonna be that nagging feeling of inferiority if you don't have that legendary gear. I mean, some of these effects are REALLY powerful. Automatic revive upon death with a 30% damage decrease? If your guild had a tank with that shit, why would you ever pick someone else?

[@Starborn23]

+Looter Penguin Oh no I can't get BiS from just raiding.

[@HimePenguin]

Ordinary Funny. But simply denying the advantage someone with these legendaries will have over someone who doesn't would be silly.

[@Starborn23]

+Looter Penguin When cata hit the archeology 2h sword was BiS. Some people farmed for it for hours. Some people got it, some people didn't. Did it ruin anyones experience of the raid content? No, people got on with thier lives.

[@Towelietowel]

Preach was totally right, especially now that blizzard has admitted there is a bug that caused people who already had a legendary to get their second legendary faster. There are now people who will be losing their raid spots in Mythic raids to people who lucked out and not only got 1 legendary, but got two, simply by random chance. Legendaries are a bad idea.

[@ThePeachNehi]

I raid heal, and I'm super stoked about this. I love fun procs, but I think you're looking at it from a min/max point of view, and Blizzard isn't. I suppose the idea is that you'll want these items, because they're so strong... but they won't be REALISTICALLY farmable. I think the RNG is supposed to be the fun part, similar to how gear drops in Diablo 3. Sure, you can target a specific item to farm, but it'll drop when it drops. Maybe that's the idea.. that they're kind of rare. I don't really see why anyone would have negative views about this lol

[@ThePeachNehi]

+S0lstices I disagree. I think it extends the gearing process. Currently, when a new Tier drops, you create your little BiS shopping list, and that's what you're looking for. Based on progression speed, RNG, etc. you could realistically have close to your BiS list in about 9 weeks or so. The current average length of a raiding tier is closer to 9 months than it is 9 weeks. And upgrading a piece from Normal to Heroic, or Heroic to Mythic is hardly exciting. Yay. 5 item levels. Your BiS shopping list will still exist, and you'll still have realistically farmable gear to progress through, and you can still complete content with that gear. . these items just offer something to shoot for. Something that's always going to be better than what you currently have. Will it make Resto Shaman 1 stand out from Resto Shaman 2? Absolutely. But every legendary has done that, except for the past two, which everyone has. Those were mandatory. Thunderfury (for example) was not. It was purely RNG, and it made someone who had one stand out. This extends the gearing process indefinitely. There's always a better item out there for you. Not a bad thing.

[@EliteRocketBear]

+Brandon Atchley For a lot of raiders, they'll see getting these items a requirement, because some of them offer an ridiculous advantage. That means they have to dedicate additional time to the game aside from their weekly raids, prepwork and dungeons to farm these items in the world. Because these won't drop from dungeons or raids. Now, if they dropped everywhere, including instanced content, that'd be fine. People who predominantly do instanced content can get them, and if they want to up their chances, they can go farm out in the world.

[@gizuu2922]

+S0lstices ^This

[@ThePeachNehi]

+EliteRocketBear That's the players choice, then. But I don't think these are intended to be realistically farmable. The terminology Blizzard used was "they will be targetable", meaning that we'll know HOW to obtain them. That doesn't mean the drop rate will be higher than 0.001%, though. The meta idea of min/max is the problem, not the implementation of fun items. In correctly itemized gear, at an appropriate item level, you can complete X content, with moderate difficulty. That's the reality of WoW today.

[@EliteRocketBear]

LycanVonWolf Except some guilds do have competition or rivalry going on on servers. Also, player competition within guilds. Also, you know, the raider mindset kind of forces you to farm these items, purely for minmaxing purposes. If you're not minmaxing, then you're essentially not putting in equal effort compared to your teammates. For highly competitive guilds and cutting edge encounters, this can lead to you getting benched purely for not having been able to farm the item, or just plain bad luck. Hell, I remember the pain in the arse that was Archeology farming at the start of Cata for Zin'rokh, because that was the best two hander until heroic BWD and Bastion. That was not fun. Now imagine that, but with an item you will never replace during the expansion's lifetime. That's bad design, in my opinion. If they weren't just world drops, but drop potentially of every mob in Legion, that'd be alright (not ideal tho), as there is a chance of getting them inside of your regular content. Currently it just hurts people who predominantly do instanced content. If they want more people to go out into the world, they need to incorporate it more into the artifact leveling up or a cool skin. Tie a weekly and daily quest to the artifact questline. These world drops are not fun, as it is essentially forcing people into the grind. For diablo these kind of systems work because Diablo is more about personal progression, where as an MMO such as WoW, the endgame is mostly focused around group progression. Ergo these systems are not healthy for an MMO.

[@TitoCastroo]

if it's better for you character, it's not a choice... if it makes you hit harder, heal for more and/or survive for longer, it's not a choice...

[@OmegaSoypreme]

Wow, I didn't even realise there was so much upset about this legendary system. That sucks. I'm the very definition of a casual player (my own and Preacher's definitions), and I couldn't give a shit about these things. They are nice, as ridiculously powerful things tend to be. But I was already of the mindset that I don't need them, and I doubt I'll ever see them anyway. Because surely they'll have to be unbelievably rare. Therefore I'll just play the game as normal and forget they even exist. Should one of them come into my life, I'll worry about it then.

[@Engman78]

100% Agreed. I would be just as happy without legendarys.

[@r077kata97]

+MarKus Knight thats the thing man, its optional for everyone else exept top end raiders ! my guild is currently 12/13 mythic and i can tell you from now , that the legendarys will have a massive impakt on the race for clearing mythic. there if they make it to the game its gonna be expected from everyone in the guild do do whatever he can to get a legendary, and i personaly will farm every single minute of my free time if they are as plwerful as right now, because even that one item can change alot because of its insane OPnes. They have to realy nurf them and straight up remove some of them.Something that ppwerful should not be tied to so much RNG...

[@xandara75]

+Ross Boykov here is the 4 options they have: 1) Make legendaries incredibly rare ( a) through skill requirements b) through dropchance). 2) Make legendaries rare but obtainable with enough investment. 3) Make legendaries require a little bit investment but not rare at all and most players will have them. 4) Practically hand out legendaries to every player. Now options 2,3,4 are garbage because this will indeed force raiders and other competitive players into the content required to get these legendaries. These options are also lame because legendaries that everyone can (and will) get aren't legendary at all. If we then take a look at option 1 we see 2 sub options: a) Because there is a lot of skill needed to get legendaries only raiders and very competitive players will get them. Now you can ask the question is this fair or not? From certain views it is (I think this btw). But from other views it is not. b) If the legendary drop chance is virtually 0 on every enemy in the game. Then no person in their right mind would ever try to farm this item. Because they wont get it! :) Thus it will not matter if these items exist if only 2-3 people on your server have one of them. (for example: if you have to kill like a 100 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 000 mobs for it to drop once it wont matter to anyone because no one will be able to farm it, thus no one wil)

[@r077kata97]

+xandara75 i agree with you. It's really up to blizz about how they wanna do this, but for me they just should not be in the game. I think that its safe to say that they wont be borderline impossible to farm. Blizzard have stated that there will be a specific way (tied to the order halls) to boost your chances of getting them and target specific items in a specific area. For me personally legendaries should ofc be strong, but what really makes them cool for me is seeing someone with it and saying> WOOOW he has that X, he is super lucky AND good at this game. I like the warglaives for example because in order to get the you had to kill Illidan, and he was super hard and most players didnt even see him ingame. The shadowmourne quest was also cool, probably even better but i dislike that you had to be a warrior, dk or paladin in order to get it. In my opinion the best legendary is something that its a bit RNG, it requires you to clear all the raid content including the last boss of the raid AND there is an one for every class/spec .That will make them rare enough to be cool and it wont effect the race for world first + it will be like a HUGE dps reward after you have proven yourself.The only downside is that you wont be able to use them for progression, but i'm down to make that sacrifice because after you kill all bosses you can focus on ranks for example and i value ranks A LOT. I guess we can just wait and see and hope for the best, but the current idea is garbage in all forms and shapes.

[@toaonua523]

+superchief86 Blizzard's goal here isn't to give people legendaries, but to give people a reason to socialize in the outdoor world environment. The drop rates will be so low it won't negate the value of normal-mythic epics. They have to make them strong, to completely remove the feeling of the "garrison prison". That's why people didn't do anything throughout WoD, because the best gear was obtained by sitting around not talking to anyone or exploring any of the world.

[@Lapouchy]

funny and scary how accurate it turned out

[@TheTorridestCheese]

This really could hurt players in higher difficulties. Long Time Raider A could be benched for Newbie B because Newbie B just happened to get a legendary off a boar while doing some random shit in the world. This could even happen to casual heroic raiders. Worst comes to worst, you won't even be able to join a higher end guild if you don't have a legendary. And there is the players who derive enjoyment from the game by min maxing so this is essentially forcing them to farm hours and hours on end for a chance to get a legendary. High end raiding should get the best gear. That's how a MMORPG works. Make the "random legendarys" cosmetic ONLY. I'm a casual player. This doesn't make me want to play the game even more. It just hurts other players.

[@TheSirtempest]

+TheTorridestCheese I sincerely doubt that. A newbie would be be lucky to clear normal with the legendary, much less mythic

[@Eindridi1661]

+TheTorridestCheese lol if "long time raider A" can be replaced by "newbie B" just because of one item, "long time raider A" has to be complete dogshit

[@TehFabled]

+Hunter Smith Or, Trial B replaces long time raider A because the legendary item increases Trial B's DPS by 20-30% or has a free ardent defender, a free battle rez, or that stupid cloak that grants a brez for having a heal on them. These aren't just any "one item"

[@TheSirtempest]

Teh Fabled a long time raider isn't likely to get benched unless you're bad all of a sudden, especially to a trial; unless you are in method. The legiondaries affect way more people in a positive way than in a negative way.

[@TehFabled]

+ater sol That implies your guild invites people that performs like shit as indicated by their logs you should have required in your application. If a trial doesn't show like he can play to your guilds level, then they are not going to be invited in the first place. The trial doing 20-30% (because he obviously will know how to play his damn class to get passed the application process) more DPS than you because he has a legendary necklace and milhouse helmet is already more than enough reason to take them over the long time raider of the same class without the insane legendaries for PROGRESSION, and this goes for any guild worth their salt.

[@thenerdbeast7375]

To be honest I don't care, Legendary gear stopped being legendary back in MoP. "Oh you want to do this? Well it doesn't matter that you have full heroic SoO gear, you don't have the cloak!" I have literally been told this, they became required to do almost anything. I quit through most of WoD, but I bet my life the damn rings were the same. The RNG system is flawed, but its still better than grind-fest quests, and weren't legendary drops in old raids like in tBC only low percent drops anyway?

[@trustyTankadin]

Just watched this again today. Still totally agree. Anyone who doesn't understand that these hurt raiders to the point where they could easily lose their raid spot to someone with one of these doesn't understand raiding expectations at all.

[@thomassencindiver]

Good insight Preach, thank you. Been reading the forums myself and been lost for words. I think you summed it up pretty well.

[@HonestAnalysis]

I honestly think we're being trolled. 16:16... the range of stormstrike is now 20 yards... on plate...

[@HonestAnalysis]

Oh, and that's on STR/INT gear... not agility...

[@yungfleip]

+Honest Analysis I noticed that a lot of the gear was of the wrong gear type. A Charge effect on mail, was another that comes to mind. You might have a point, as there were too many of these to be a simple typo. The stormstrike on plate wouldn't fit this idea, but I wonder if a lot of them are meant to be the wrong armor type so that you lose the benefit of having all the right type? So sure, you get this great item that adds a lot of extra utility to an ability, but your going to lose your armor type bonus.

[@Wonkanator2]

+yungfleip nah blizzard even said a lot of them are scrapped and were simply ideas the devs were putting in

[@LilianOrchard]

Leather boots decrease the cooldown of Warrior abilities. ...Wot?

[@malletin]

+Lily Peet placeholder tags, they are obviously gonna be plate.

[@jackhaill1676]

+Lily Peet It's where they got the item from, most of the things aren't right.

[@KianaWolf]

+Lily Peet How about Maelstrom Gauntlets? STR/INT plate gloves that extend the rage of Stormstrike, a shaman ability. I'm starting to suspect these legendaries are just Blizzard trolling data miners.

[@jvjd]

+Lily Peet Ruins the plate specialization bonus as well, you know +5% stats if you wear the armor you are supposed to wear

[@Preachgaming]

+Lily Peet the items alter depending on spec/class etc. Like the talent replacing items also work for warriors.

[@bansheeownz]

I'm done talking to you about this. Deleted original comment. Legendaries are bad. There you win, now stop whining about it.

[@Preachgaming]

+Banshee Lost Jesus fuck, this is why I read so much bullshit about me all over the place. Raid quality gear for doing nothing is fine. Do what you want, you do what you enjoy, I do what I enjoy, both rewarded to a reasonably equal standard as it stands today, doesn't cause any adverse affects anywhere. BEST items in the game, notably for raiding. Coming from RNG world drops. A system supposedly incentivizes casual players but actually has far stronger implications for raiders as they get by far the greatest benefit from them, from doing content that isn't what they enjoy doing is completely different. There is absolutely no need to create a system that drags any player from doing what they enjoy and pushing them into something they dont.

[@carvo1883]

+Preach Gaming Beat me too it! This will only make raiders feel compeled to spend absured amount of times farming mobs out in the world just for that one lucky drop thats gonna boost your DPS and contribut to finally kill that boss..

[@harrymartin6517]

+Preach Gaming CASTS HAM.

[@connor5422]

+Banshee Lost What peeves me about this guy's argument, is that he's making the implication that RNG is 'doing something', you can get lucky, and get the BiS legendary you need for your character on the first mob you kill. Jesus christ, I hope they don't add this shit.

[@MisterMan4Twon]

+Preach Gaming Thats a good point at the end there, I do agree that best PVE raiding gear should be limited to people thriving in the PVE raiding scene. Maybe what they are doing with this system is mainly a way to encourage raiders to try and have fun outside of the raiding scene through dailies and vice versa for the non-raiders :) True, maybe having the first step in achieving that involving LEGENDARIES THAT ARE BROKEN FOR PROGRESSION is a bit of an overkill but I dont see the harm as long as everyone gets to play with the fun broken passives should they put enough time for it. Should also be noted that these items are equally valueable for PVP and Dungeons (which apparently will be a huge part of the endgame content) as they are for raiding. In that case wouldnt it make sense that they would make the globally useful legendaries obtainable for everyone through the global content that is dailies?

[@shaun2312]

Additions *

[@LittleFreakyist]

+Shaun Newell Good one m8. sick burn

[@TK_GX]

>be a Warlock >Have a hard time getting into raids (never ever get in) >Guild: LOOKING FOR WARLOCKS >Hey I'm a Warlock, can I join your raiding guild >Oh do you have item? >Oh um... no.. >haha sorry we will take this other Warlock with the legendary but shit gear because he has this buff we need sorry >o-oh okay *sheds a tear* goes back to LFR que and wonders why I don't kill myself

[@potentiallyRealWarrenGraham]

The ending is so true it's hilarious. Blizz should really watch this video and rethink their life choices.

[@AlexanderForsman]

The only people who gets hurt by this are those who check recount after every fight (boss or trash) so see his glorious dps.... For the rest it's just a extra bonus to the raid if a raider has one and from what i've gathered you'll maybe have one or two legendaries in a raid, if they are as rare as epics like Staff of Jordan was.

[@Preachgaming]

+Alexander Forsman gathered from where exactly? based on what information? Mocking people who check their performance is no different than mocking someone who tries harder at anything. As if somehow you are cooler for not caring.

[@WyvernPC]

Checking your performance and working out how to improve is a major part of raiding... I mean, if you're raiding normal casually maybe you don't care too much, but for upper heroic and mythic raiding it's very important, as your better performance could result in a kill. And if they are rare enough to only have 2 in the raid, then those two LUCKY people will probably immediately get recruited by a better guild, as they can perform better than an equally or higher skilled player just because they got lucky. It should be about skill, not just who is lucky enough to get a legendary.

[@archbishop8049]

+Alexander Forsman You do realize that anything that is 'just a extra bonus' will become essential for raiders to try and obtain. If I got a legendary then I would be prioritized because of my dps, and someone who didn't get a legendary would always be below me, regardless if they were a better player, simply because I was lucky and they weren't.

[@Luck1N]

+Alexander Forsman I totally agree. As I see it, this will hurt only those, who take the game too much seriously. As long as they keep these legendaries really rare, there wouldn't be any problem for me. It doesn't really matter to me if we down the boss easily 'cuz of me doing more DPS due to legendaries, or if we down it because any of my guildmates does that increased damage. Yeah, I want to be good and a valuable asset to my guild, but I don't need to be the best in there. So, for us who play mainly for fun and not to prove that we are the uber-alfa male (or female) with BiS gear, this simple addition of RNG element means only more fun. It will make other things besides raiding and PvP worth the time invested in them. I can only imagine the joy when one of these drops while doing dailies. :)

[@izeekio]

If you have ever wiped on a boss before in your life, surely you will realize that playing well is more than just an ego stroke. it makes the big bad guy die and then you get to move forward.

[@Mangs1337]

To be quite honest Preach, I do understand where this is coming from. The community HAVE been complaining for years that they are making the game boring by removing everything that's fun and interesting, so I can perfectly see why they think these legendaries are a good idea. Doesn't mean they are right, but I understand where they are coming from here.

[@NickMK]

It scares me that people don´t see the problem with this. When they announced legendaries that drop in the world, I thought "Great idea" if the drop rate is insanely low, that would be exciting to get one. But then they said there are things you can do to target specific ones and get a higher chance and thats fucking retarded.

[@ianfacerollsyou]

+Nitin Shekhar Why are you comparing a mount to BiS items with op spell effects?

[@BSwitchGTG]

+EcllipsE2510 I agree, the targeting system concerns me. I prefer the idea of low-chance drops that you may get, but the targeting system indicates you can farm for them, which I understand can cause concern in the raiding scene. I hope these can be seen and balanced as bonuses, though, instead of required items.

[@NickMK]

Luke Shaw Of course idealy there would remove this shit completely, Im just saying there is a point where the odds of getting it are so low that no raider will farm for months to maybe get one and if you did, you´d be a big deal. But blizzard wont do that and I think these legendaries will be required which is dogshit

[@NickMK]

Luke Shaw Yeah this point that preach made "They want it cause its orange" is true but if Blizz sticks with this dumb plan, orange wont mean shit anymore and epics will mean even less then they do now

[@SubtleViper]

+Luke Shaw Then they need to make Purple and Orange mean something. Legendaries should be Weapons, so none for Legion. The only Legendary in Legion should've been Mythic Blackhand's Hammer, The Normal and Heroic version should've been something else, not that hammer. Epics should only drop from Heroic and Mythic Raids, not from LFR, Dungeons or Normal Raids, not from shitty World Bosses or QUESTING UPGRADES, or from doing a couple dailes.

[@jerod5636]

This is one of the best videos and discussions I've heard in a long time.

[@DagothDaddy]

while they aren't necessarily needed I'm just glad they aren't adding some stupid questline that just devolves into a requirement to raid

[@SalvLav]

If they are end-of-the-expansion BiS items like blizz says they are, then they ARE needed. Any raider who isn't on bath salts will be grinding boars till kingdom come to get these stupid items

[@DagothDaddy]

SalvLav yes but you won't get booted from your raid or guild if you don't have them

[@SalvLav]

Even subject to change, if these are BiS items for whole expansion, then if someone else of your class gets this random drop, or they find a recruit who has one, then you will get benched. Because the game told you that you just don't get to have one. You will get completely fucked by RNjesus, 0 control in your hands over whether you are able to play to your best.

[@vaju79]

It's always the same argument..... "the problems us raiders have with "X" thing in the game". You know what? The name of the game is not "Raids" of Warcraft, raiding is just a mini game some people do. The name of the game is "World" of Warcraft, open world mmo-rpg, that's what the game is about, not raiding. You could remove all raids from the game that most of us wouldn't even notice. I love the new Legions legendary, they are great and fun item that doesn't come from stupid raids. Blizzard can't please everyone, at least this time they are doing the right thing.

[@cowjuicethepallytank]

Honestly, I like this idea, and this is coming from a raider. If you are a skilled raider, you will be able to use these items to their fullest advantage and it will add another layer of depth to game play and strategy, allowing you to tweak your character in ways only seen before in set bonuses. Not only will this get EVERYONE out in the world, not just casuals, but raiders as well, but it will get them working together to farm efficiently. From what I know, we have no solid ideas on how this is going to work once implemented into the game except for that you will be able to narrow down the area in which to farm and increasing the drop chance. I love the fact that they are adding loads of new content into the game, because WoD has had a serious lack of it. There is no reason for me to log on other than to raid and check my garrison like once every two or 3 days. This is them bringing excitement back to gear, and I love it. I don't know if Preach is just set in his ways of how gear should work, or is upset because he wants raiding to be a science, because even if you don't get the legendary that you want, all of them will be useful in some way shape or form, and they will provide valuable utility to the raid group as a whole (the battle rez chest for example). So what if you don't get your best in slot damage legendary, you may get a utility legendary instead, which will benefit you, personally, less, but your raid team more. You have been advocating for the emphasis of being "not just a DPS" for a long time, and I feel like these give that opportunity. Thoughts?

[@SamuelAlves-yb9uj]

+Christian Emerson i agree with you

[@Terminus_4]

+Christian Emerson The problem i see, is that there are some that Drastically alter your gameplay. Thats bad, if an legendary is 1% better then anything els you can, i wouldent really care. But i see Nether Prisim/Smoulderweave being bascially required for a Fire Mage. Did a little calculating, if you manage it well you could get an extra 30% uptime with Nether Prisim. and Smoulderweave is 200% extra ignite contribution from pyroblast.

[@sebastianbrear9583]

+Christian Emerson The main arguments against Preach seem to be relying on a a perspective in which you lack experience and personal knowledge of how progression guilds actually work, so let's use an example: Timmy and Johnny are raiders in the same guild. Timmy is the kind of guy who goes fishing and herbing to make his own food, pots, flasks, all that good stuff. Timmy is the prepared raider, that spends time farming even for minor dps increases, because he enjoys progression. Timmy sees that he can get a *huge* dps increase if he's lucky enough to get a class-specific legendary, so he goes out, and farms for hours on end. Unfortunately for Timmy, it never drops, but oh well, that's RNG for you. On the other hand, Johnny, who isn't as invested in raiding as Timmy is, just plans on spending half an hour farming his class-specific legendary, and look at that, it dropped. When it comes to progression raiding, the raid leader will, and should, pick Johnny over Timmy, because that's what progression is like. It's not Johnny, or Timmy's fault that one was picked over the other. It's not even the raid leader's fault, and Timmy isn't upset with his raid leader, he's upset with Blizzard. The other scenario, which is even worse, is that Johnny isn't even a raider, he's just a social in a raiding guild who participates in the usual banter. When Johnny sees his legendary, he is excited, but at the same time, frustrated, because he doesn't raid, and he doesn't need to have a legendary, he thinks it's cool, but he doesn't feel entitled to owning a super powerful piece of gear, over someone like Timmy, who scrapes together every possible stat to help his guild.

[@cowjuicethepallytank]

+Sebastian Brear or maybe, were acting like people won't get these legendaries, what if people are able to get them just with hard work. You still don't know how the drop rate will work.

[@sebastianbrear9583]

Christian Emerson They called them world drops, with some element of choice. All that we are left with is what we know world drops as. If they were drastically changes the system they would have said something at blizzcon, just like what they did with how they announced transmogging and talents.

[@jacks7991]

I'm not a raider, but I like the look of it. Powerful items are useless to me but I still enjoy getting cool new armor, stat wise and model wise. It's fun and are just kinda a bragging tool for us.

[@archbishop8049]

Like Preach said, couldn't you get the same bragging rights from a cosmetic? Sure you like the system but I'm not looking forward to farming legendaries whenever I'm not raiding.

[@MrXshot]

+jack s (StoneAged) Oh man, you're so cool for rolling double sixes while I constantly roll snake eyes....brag away man. Winning the RNG roll is such a praiseworthy accomplishment!

[@ABonafideSkeleton]

I feel as if a legendary quality cosmetic would be the way to go, if we raiders want bragging rights then give us a fucking awesome weapon skin or an amazing looking transmog set.

[@loganshadowheart5997]

Been saying for a very long time, cater to the casuals and watch your game burn, and everytime i get swarmed and yelled at by casuals lol, if you don't have the time to do the hardest content in the game to get the best gear in the game...tuff shit get over it, either get more time and stop complaining and do what your able to do.

[@TrollNO21]

+Logan ShadowHeart you mad coz 5 min old account demon hunter boosted 100 can get legendary and rock hahahahaha ....deal with it this game is casual

[@xandara75]

+Logan ShadowHeart you are right and not right at the same time xD as in almost everything: balance is probably the best for everyone. The biggest problem is that players dont know what is good for themselves therefor you need to very carefully choose when to listen to them and when to ignore them :p Preach explains this very nicely in some of his previous videos but in this one he seems to have gotten a little too agitated to come up with a sound logic without any false dilemma fallacies.

[@jackalll98]

+TrollNO21 I like 100 boost, especially when I get it for free with wod and legion. But who cares, you are just here to troll xD

[@TheShinyDunsparce]

+Logan ShadowHeart yea, cater to the hardcore raiders and end up just as successful as wildstar, oh wait

[@loganshadowheart5997]

TheShinyDunsparce You don't need to cater to the hardcore raiders....lol vanilla had it perfect, molten core and onyxia for the masses, black wing and AQ for the dedicated and naxx for the very hardcore...the perfect mix.

[@robjapan]

I'm a proper casual, I cheered like a little girl when blizz talked about the profession changes for example. I think aiming legendaries towards people like me is crazy beyond belief. To what end? For what purpose? What blizz SHOULD be doing is the exact opposite, people like me should be walking around in whites and greens until we level our professions and start getting blues and eventually purples, if at that point blizz want to add a legendary blacksmithing quest, that would require going all over the world, making items, getting in on a raid to forge an axe while the boss is being killed then sure, give people like me legendaries. But the stats or effects on the weapon shouldn't be pve combat focused, they should be +200 skill in XYZ or now makes rank 4 and 5 recipes available. My 2 cents as a casual.

[@grimsight0]

I'm surprised Preacher is so fired up about this(never heard him so angry), Like preacher says in every video, everything is subject to change. Blizzard is a big, smart company. They are not naive enough or so short sighted as to let these items completely derail mythic competition. The information we have currently is patchy, there are bound to be more limits to the system that we do not know of, limits that will protect raiders from the hypotheticals laid out by Preach. To believe Blizzard would implement this system without any regard for the raiders is to lose faith in blizzard and their design altogether. And if it turns out that Blizzard really does ruin raiding competitiveness with this system, that should be a lesson for us to not preorder until we have a full grasp on the systems being introduced and whether we support them or not.

[@grimsight0]

While I don't agree with Preacher saying this system should be pulled immediately, I do share some of his worries. Why was this system really necessary in the first place? If blizzard felt gear is too unrewarding in its current state, maybe listening to the community and removing motivation-crushing RNG systems such as warforged, and the addition of cool fluff enchants would be just as fulfilling as this new legendary system, with much less risk of unforeseen consequences . It feels this new system reinforces this idea that Legion is a fan service xpac. Also just an anecdote, remember when epics started being much more easily attainable in Wrath, people would joke that eventually legendaries would be common too?😂 Lol!

[@Omugaru]

Always been a fan of legendaries myself. I remember getting shadowmourne, I was excited, I was going to kick the LK one final time with an axe forged to counter his blade. I saw the visuals proc, souls surrounding me and BAM, BIG DICK DEEPS. Felt amazing. Same with the Fangs of Father. Was playing Assassination back then and I saw the wings proc and went mental on spamming envenom. I saw my dps sky-rocket on the chards and I was loving every second of it. However, part of what made this so great was the story and the effort put into getting these. You had to do fights in a harder difficulty or go do solo scenarios which were tough as fuck. Not just grind out some boars in the middle of nowhere. It felt rewarding when you finally had that moment where you got them and fought your first boss with them and just went mental on the boss. Plus, the first few weeks of the new raid nobody had them, so it wasn't mandatory. These things... It sounds like a demo lock better starts farming Day 1 like mad in order to get that helm, I mean instant demon summons with a 20% buff? Thats insanly OP, with little effort. It removes the shazam effect from the legendaries and makes them feel like glorified purps. I mean, back in the days when you saw someone wield an orange, you had respect, you knew he took it balls to the walls hard in order to achieve that and he was rewarded. Which is cool right. And I am cool myself with the current system allowing everyone to easily get the legendary ring through lfr. It can be achieved by casuals who chill in SW/OGR/Garrison all day, it can be done by PvP'ers who want a break from the battlegrounds, it can be done by raiders who just want to be the very best they can be in pve. And thats cool, some shitty boar grind in the middle of fucking nowhere having the strongest gear ingame is just wrong. No forging of an amazingly powerful item with effort, no taking the weapons from powerfull boses with lore attached to them. No just a plain ol' boar eating some gras and taking a huge shit against a tree has the most powerfull item. I want there to be legendaries for sure, I admit to the fact that having them feels great, the visual procs, the big dick deeps, I love it. However if they can be achieved day 1 by a retarded boar grind it really doesn't do what a legendary is supposed to do. Be legendary. I congratule anyone who actually was able to read through the ranty wall of text. I salute you.

[@EsailiaLightheart]

Did I misclick on a Diablo 3 video? random legendary drops from just leveling? No? Well, balance is screwed to hell if this makes it into WoW. Guess I'm not doing dungeons or raids when these things are complete luck to get with those kinds of benefits. Are they so out of ideas they think we just want legendaries at random? I stopped raiding seriously in cata. I experienced wrath end game raiding as MT for my guild on Lich King. I stopped caring about dungeons in Mists because of how speed runner it got. Throw these legendaries into the mix, and it'll demolish any chance of having a balanced view of the game for pve. I state this not out of being a hardcore raider. If anything I'm a hardcore altoholic. I've got six level 100s right now pumping out gold for WoW tokens, sitting at max professions and mountains of mats. This means nothing to me. What I do enjoy, is occasionally hopping in a dungeon, interacting with people who play the same MMO game as me, and see if I can do a bit better in dps than my party. This is my personal view, some will just say "But these will make the dungeon faster since the lucky sod who got one or two or five early on is doing insane things with them." And they're right. That person is doing insane stuff, but not because of skill or effort, but luck and the gear. Never forget why we have the term "Welfare epics". Now it'll be "Lucky Legendaries". The worst part? Legendaries from the past were weapons. Weapons of power plundered from mighty foes, with amazing visuals and (during their prime), amazing stats. If you had one, you were blessed. Mists of Pandaria had you going on huge quests to get your legendary cloak, and WoD for a ring. At least you earned it, right? But these? Kill a rat, find a legendary pendant that SOMEHOW allows you to teleport 50 yards away to a friendly person. Don't point to artifacts to cancel out my comparison of legendary weapons to these Lucky Legendaries. Artifacts are their own tier that have no comparison to anything else in the game, as the OLD legendary weapons were in their time. What would happen if suddenly you could get other Artifact items from random drops after Legion? More to the point, when will the foot be put down on the crying about gear? My 100s are over ilvl 660 and haven't even stepped foot into dungeons or raids, my max is 681 and she's the only one who's gone into Tanaan. Remember when gear actually was worth something? Not going to touch what this might do for pvp because I have no clue about pvp. I did deryp 2v2 arenas in cata as a SV hunter with a resto druid friend for giggles, but that's it.

[@sarphog]

8:00 How is dedicating a lot of time grinding these out not committing to the game? Just as there are the stereotypical "LFR casual", there are just as many "raiding casuals" who raid 2-3 times a week, and barely doing much more. To be honest, this all boils down to what amount of time should be needed to "clear the main story" (Capping the progressing the latest raid), and I don't want my time progressing be limited by people who can't play the amount I want to. Also, what's up with the hate about people having limited amount of time not accessing raids as easily as it's been since.. WotLK? So many raiders see the game as no more than the raid they progress 2-3 times a week. Is forcing this bunch to do something else than raiding really way worse than gating people's progress, only giving them the option to raid? To be honest, I can get it for the competitive bunch when it comes to the legendaries, but if Blizz simply makes them unavailable until that race is over, I see zero issue having these items, as long as the raids aren't balanced around them. EDIT The ideal state the put the legendaries after a bit of thinking, would be to have a nerfed version of the current ones dropped, and give them their full power if combined with X item from a mythic boss, or something akin to that, imo

[@minijacob553]

Yo, Preach. Could you give a new link to your UI? The link in the other video is outdated and no longer accessible.

[@squidelz5710]

I like it....

[@gizuu2922]

+Squidelz Well, not a single serious raider does.

[@AlexanderForsman]

+Gizuu The only people who gets hurt by this are those who check recount after every fight (boss or trash) so see his glorious dps.... For the rest it's just a extra bonus to the raid if a raider has one and from what i've gathered you'll maybe have one or two legendaries in a raid, if they are as rare as epics like Staff of Jordan was.

[@GloriousZote]

+Alexander Forsman just an etra bonus... Bitch have you seen some of these effects? and look at their itemlevel!

[@AlexanderForsman]

tigurius555 it doesnt change the fact that the whole raid need to be competent, even i 1 lock amongst 20 raiders have a 20% buff... Or do you play normal/lfr, there it might have bigger impact. And just a remainder, this is just beta

[@gizuu2922]

The reason i meantioned "serious raiders" is because a good guild want every advantage possible, therefore requiering every member to have one or a few (depending on how the system works) of the legendaries in order to gain a stronger chance at progression. So no, the people who "check recount after every boss" are not the only ones affected. The whole raid scene is affected, as Preacher stated in the video.

[@JosueTheBigot]

I don't think I've ever seen you riled up. But, I agree. The system is balls.

[@DaveTV12]

I dont necessarily think its that bad a thing to get raiders out in the world to do something other than raiding. I actually miss having off-raid-time things to do to prep for raid, and going after these items sounds fun and exciting. What I dont want, is having NOTHING to do outside of raiding and pay a sub to log on 2-3 nights a week for 3 hours, which is what we did for most of WoD. I disagree that these are targeted towards casual non-raiders. I think they are very much targeted towards raiders to give them something to do outside of raiding. I also really hope that you can only equip one at a time, which will mean it will be faster to get at least one so you are competitive, but then can work on getting more to give yourself some choice.

[@harrison1735]

+Shakesy People keep saying this and it's completely missing the point. They announced loads of stuff that they want people to be able to do outside of raiding. Challenge Mode dungeons, profession quests, reps, dailies, etc. RNG BiS items not only aren't the best solution to getting people out in the world, they're one of the worst.

[@DaveTV12]

Harrison Greeley there definitely not just RNG based. It seems there is an asoect if RNG, but blizz also announced that there would be ways to progress and target these outside of just RNG. As long as there is a critical path to getting them, I'm ok with the system.

[@harrison1735]

And until they clarify that point, it's meaningless. Does it mean they want everyone to have a legendary and thus negate the entire appeal of it being a rare item? Or does it just mean that you can sort of choose which one will drop first, even if it's still an absurdly low chance that might take you months of farming? When we're talking about items as OP as this, it's better to err on the side of thinking about ways this system could go horribly wrong while hoping that it might turn out okay. Rather than hoping first and then being disappointed later.

[@DaveTV12]

Harrison Greeley until they clarify the entire discussion is moot because we really don't know how the system is going to work.

[@PedroIgori]

+Shakesy so let me get this straight, you like to run, but in order to get the best running shoes you have to win a swimming championship, yeah makes total sense to me right?! Also just stop that! If blizzard wanted to give raiders something to do outside of raiding they would give them some challenging pve content they could tackle on they'r own or with a couple players, griding is as much as a good thing as basically tossing garbage all over your house and then telling you, hey arent i a good guy? now you get to clean your entire house, so much fun to be had, but hey, theres a 100$ hidden in that garbage somewere, maybe you find it maybe not. The only way this works is to make the legendaries be cosmetic like changing your demons to cooler looking ones, changing spell efcets and such, as its those items are just mandatory for raiding and thus forcing you to do something that is no fun for you or anyone in that case, and if you think killing 1000 bears to maybe get a shiny then go work on a chinese sweatshop and youll have a blast

[@danielhardy3137]

It seems to early to have so much rage... You have no idea how it will play out. Just like you say about Demon Hunters, We don't know...

[@osterberg501]

Can you only equip one legendary at a time? If so one way I could see this being fixed somewhat is once u get one of the legendary items you could turn it in to someone to get it transformed into any of them so you would only need to do enough to get one legendary the entire expansion. Could have to be some cool quest line to change it when you want (or most likely a gold sink). I guess the most extreme way of keeping this in will keeping most people happy would be to disable legendary items in the current raid tier which could make catching people up in the older raids much easier and maybe even get people who wouldn't raid to try out the older raids.

[@keast18]

While I totally see and respect your point of view, we still don't have specifics on attainability. I know they've used the term "world drop", but that can always vary between now and live. I would also like to bring up a few other points. As a raider, you're still (most likely) going to have to build around your optimal 4piece, so that will limit which slots you'd feel obligated to "legend-ize"(for lack of a better term). On top of that, it currently seems like most of these legendaries don't have secondary stats. Meaning you can fully deck your warlock out with oranges and have your 0 cast time demon doing 20% more damage, but in the end, you will be doing terrible dps with very little to no mastery on your gear. Blizz is going to have to be super delicate in balancing and incentivizing players with no legendaries, but to reiterate on my first sentence, anything is up for change and I'm 100% positive that they've at least taken note of the feedback on this issue.

[@BrokenAndStable]

Seems like something from Diablo 3, Can get bis from random mobs. RNG.

[@jonnyswift1646]

+Brandon Pittman Yes because that's what I want from my spare time outside of raid grinding these oranges that will be mandatory in order to stay competitive in my raid. All these cool new things they are adding to the world outside of raiding and guess what i get to do... farm farm farm and pray to RNGesus that my legendary drops.

[@BrokenAndStable]

Jonny Swift Yup, started playing D3 for about 3 months, got to paragon level 300 something and never got the full set for what I wanted to play as, whirlwind barb. So I hate to see my RNG with this.

[@wraithryder]

you'r ranting...its the same as the ashbringer rants... also, if you've been watching interviews (one that Bay and wowhead did)...its been stated that ppl can equip multiple - as many as there are slots - its also souldbound and rng world drops so raiders cant *reliably* get these...subject to change upon testing. how can you have a problem w/ everyone having ashbringer (making it apparently NOT special because EVERYONE has it) and these which actually DO make you special because of what they do....? the arguments you make are based on a # of assumptions (some obviously false)...even your definitions of casuals makes me scratch my head....casuals are ppl that cant commit time, they arent plebs who dont know their class. There's plenty of hardcore plebs who play non-stop pet battles, that doesnt make em casual....its about time commitment, not skill. casual pug/occasional raiders will love these because even organized groups will appreciate the power they can bring with these - it kind of equalizes the playing field. Raiders will get reliable raid gear, casuals (being more out in the world? yes no maybe?) may have a better chance at these making guilds that pick up casuals for missing slots that have these a welcome addition - although rare. If raiders get these they'll feel powerful...kind of like classic wow. If these are completely rng drops like ashes of alar (where years can go by and you will never get 1) and they remain soulbound, what raid can reliably expect you to have these? moreover you havent seen the new raid designs....dont you think the balance team will take these into account? or will these be an acceptable variance? And if they decide it is an acceptable variance....you are entitled to your opinion but i cant see raiding ever be *destroyed*. You may not like the direction of this, but the game will go on with or without you... You're falling into the trap you discourage others from falling into = you have NO idea how these are acquired, but because its not through raiding (which also involves rng drops leading to imbalances between guilds), you're freaking out cause you're assuming EVERYONE will have even a single 1 of these....back it up Preach - wait for more info before you scream FOWL!

[@S4Monstar]

+wraithryder It's not about 'casual' ffs. Why cant ppl get this through their heads? Preach has stated multiple times that he isn't against 'casuals' getting these. 'Casuals' having them will not affect him one little bit. He is against the idea they will become mandatory for top end raiders. They are more rng put into the game that affects top end raiding. Everyone having an Ashbringer is fine as EVERYONE has it... legendaries are going to be 'rare' and totally rng based as to how you acquire one. THAT is the problem. 'Raider a' has a legendary and 'raider b' does not... 'raider b' sits out. If you dont see that being a problem then this isn't a problem for you at all it's just an incentive for you to do world content, which is fine.

[@wraithryder]

S4Monstar tldr: Preach is upset the sky is falling but this DOES make sense for Blizzard: WoD WAS thew mythic raider's expac, now they are doing what blizz always does - a 180 to experiment with the other side. They use these extremes in the long run (over years) to influence design decisions about what resonates and what doesnt - its not all about Legion alone or JUST raiders or JUST casuals. Preach *seems* to be against casuals getting these w/ the mixed messages hes sending: he *says* hes not but then he rants on for who this is good for and he *completely* dismisses everyone that isnt a raider. This sends 2 completely different messages. That's a big miscommunication problem that ppl are latching onto which he cant see the EXTREME rng nature of these drops in NOW WAY makes them mandatory because their soulbound nature makes them impossible to trade which means NO RAIDER CAN RELIABLY HAVE THESE. That makes them NOT mandatory, but a bonus - a HUGE bonus. Also, pretend hardcore raiders aside ill give some advice on how raiding works: in NO universe does a better player get seated for an inferior player because of ONE item slot legendary or not. it makes a diff but not replacing skiled play diff. Ppl's ability to output atleast 90% of their class's throughput potential makes a bigger difference than this, they are awesome but if you think they are 25% margin difference, they're not. Most Raid leaders take the reliable raider over a random guildy that got lucky with a single drop. Ppl know this Preach is overblowing this situation RNG itself also isnt a problem btw - its used to keep game play fresh. the problem is excessive amounts of it in the reward system. things like random drops from raid bosses seems fine, random drops with rng modifiers is annoying. random world drops with a .0001% drop rate means more scrubs will have these (that cant play their class well enough to replace competent raiders) than hardcore raiders who will reliably get top tier loot from the raids the progress in. Preach is making the same mistake he warns us not to make - over-generalizing....jumping to conclusions before trying the system..... now i LIKE Preach i do, but i dont think he takes everything into consideration...hes not perfect. I think he is entitled to his opinion and has some good insight....but lets face facts - we know NOTHING about the system in play or the factors involved - its too early to start ranting...

[@andybronstein9036]

No one has been sat or recruited for someone with a legendary?!?! Hmm does Dragonwrath ring a bell. So many people were recruited because of this item. These legendarys are pointless. World content will never be hard enough that these items will make a difference and guilds will be taking the lucky people who got the items first. Rewarding someone for farming goats more than organizing a 20 man mythic raid is outrageous and spoils the rewards of doing harder content. Your ignorance is upsetting.

[@wraithryder]

Andy Bronstein and i question your skill...if you were sat for someone who had identical gear except ONE legendary (dragonwrath) then your performance must suck pretty hard or your Raid Leader must be an idiot in order to sit a BETTER PERFORMING player (which is SUPPOSED to be YOU) for someone worse than you who had dragonwrath - are you for real? THAT's the POINT. ppl who can PLAY their class to 90-95% of their class's potential efficiency dont get sat for worse players with legendaries because the performance is what's critical to success, not the bling you wear as the raid fails. i have always finished my progression raids vastly undergeared compared to my peers simply because i didnt NEED the gear as bad as the person next to me because i could perform whatever role was needed of me w/o it - most of the time.. Pros dont whine about this. ppl who wanna rank dps whine about this and bad players who's raid leaders have questionable leadership acuity. also MAYBE the top 0.1% but i doubt it, they're competent. Sorry if you've fallen in that situation, but that's on your raid and you, not the item or system in question - yes it makes the wielder stronger but i you think theres more than a 10-15% increase in their performance because of it ALONE, you're over-exaggerating and dreaming. /rantover - your ignorance makes me facepalm

[@sebastianbrear9583]

+wraithryder First of all, Preach said at the beginning of the video what definition he was using for the word casual, he literally redefined it, and was using it completely without a negative connotation, second, the main arguments against Preach seem to be relying on a a perspective in which you lack experience and personal knowledge of how progression guilds actually work, so let's use an example: Timmy and Johnny are raiders in the same guild. Timmy is the kind of guy who goes fishing and herbing to make his own food, pots, flasks, all that good stuff. Timmy is the prepared raider, that spends time farming even for minor dps increases, because he enjoys progression. Timmy sees that he can get a *huge* dps increase if he's lucky enough to get a class-specific legendary, so he goes out, and farms for hours on end. Unfortunately for Timmy, it never drops, but oh well, that's RNG for you. On the other hand, Johnny, who isn't as invested in raiding as Timmy is, just plans on spending half an hour farming his class-specific legendary, and look at that, it dropped. When it comes to progression raiding, the raid leader will, and should, pick Johnny over Timmy, because that's what progression is like. It's not Johnny, or Timmy's fault that one was picked over the other. It's not even the raid leader's fault, and Timmy isn't upset with his raid leader, he's upset with Blizzard. The other scenario, which is even worse, is that Johnny isn't even a raider, he's just a social in a raiding guild who participates in the usual banter. When Johnny sees his legendary, he is excited, but at the same time, frustrated, because he doesn't raid, and he doesn't need to have a legendary, he thinks it's cool, but he doesn't feel entitled to owning a super powerful piece of gear, over someone like Timmy, who scrapes together every possible stat to help his guild.

[@monwar8]

Excuse me but i think visuals dont make lengendaries cool the best part about the rogue legendarys wasnt that you could glide a few feet its that you could hammer out 7 finisher back to back that was fucking awesome.. This system exites me 1000 times more so than mop or wid legendarys

[@Preachgaming]

+Duck Withahat so which of the items fits that for you?

[@MisterMan4Twon]

+Preach Gaming I personally enjoy the legendaries that give you access to talents even if you haven't specced into them like the anger management one :). Is the problem for you the existence of these legendaries? Is it how you get them? Is it the passives they provide being too strong? Is it all of the above? I personally like the new legendary addition :(. You will perform considerably better as a raider in progression by putting dedication and time OUTSIDE of raiding. Is that such a bad thing? We are finally combining the raiding scene with the daily quest (bounty) scene. If dailies turn out to be fun (which is blizz's goal), I don't see the problem! :)

[@eliotness107]

I for one certainly love addition of these kind of items, mainly because they are also an additional way of altering the gameplay style of your character. However, if they are too powerful they will incentivise everyone to use it and forcing people into grinding them. But if they only provide marginal gains in numbers people can choose if they want to pursue them or not because the gains are mostly "cool" etc and not providing MAJOR dps boost etc. Some runspeed stuff, root breaks etc etc and maybe additional small effects to spells, minor crowdcontrol and so forth is awesome additions to gameplay style.

[@Langii94]

+Preach Gaming Personally im not sure wheither I like them or not. When I first saw them I was pretty hyped about all the cool effects, but later a bit scared about their power. Now I thought about them a little more and would like to state my thoughts: In the first place I love this feeling of getting outside in the world with the chance to have an upgrade/awesome item dropping, which benefits my characters gear. The problem is the RNG factor and the still unknown propability of getting those legendaries, which makes me concern that some are crazy OP in the first days and some might never see them (Our Healer could be one of them, since he hasnt got his Socrethar Trinket nh/hc/mythic in 14 weeks or so). Although some of them are so strong, that they could get a needed item for raiding, which wouldnt be beneficial to the scene (i.e. LFG Suramar Palace ... only Tanks with AS gloves and Locks with DoT neck etc.--> Gearscore 3.0). BUT maybe they are so rare that only a few can obtain them which reminds me at old xpacs/vanilla. With a really really really low dropchance it would be awesome to have one, but its not necessary. And if a casual gets one of the strongest, its the same as if a noob warrior rolled a 100 on windseeker bindings back in classic. Although you can't really define their power yet, since we DO NOT KNOW the power-/Itemlevel of Raid Gear. Maybe the missing main/secondary stat (gap getting higher with the xpac continueing) can make up to certain effects, but clearly not all ... for instance the arcane barrage leg. which causes multi target hitting with AB, combined with the artifact passive: 4 charges = 25 AB Hits + 5 Supernovae = OP. TL:DR. I like getting out with the chance of getting cool things, but those have to be regulated and adjusted, so they wont trigger stupidly op plays (for an example read top) and they shouldnt be common. Enhancement Shaman 9/13 mythic HFC (not a casual :>)

[@s0515033]

The problem with Preach's argument is that it can be used for anything. Any time a raider feels "compelled' to do something we shouldn't have it to make them feel less compelled to get it. The only time this argument wouldn't apply is when nothing is worth anything of value to them. Preach's argument is that "we don't want to take stuff away" when quite literally, anything cool, interesting, or useful potentially to them must be eliminated to protect them from themselves. Please think critically about what you're saying. Anything "worthwhile' out in the world we can't have because raiders will feel compelled to do it if it will help them marginally. He is also assuming these items are specifically intended for casuals or non-raiders. Maybe they want to incentivize raiders to do more than just raid.

[@cruelcumber5317]

+Damien Rafalowski But is grinding really something that people would want to do besides raiding? If this was an interesting quest or something like that it'd be a bit different, but we're talking about running around killing the same mobs for hours hoping you'll finally get an item that will undoubtedly become necessary unless bliz wants to indirectly nerf raids.

[@theresidentone]

You talk of "casual players" what is a casual player? I haven't properly raided since Wrath (when I raided to LK hc 25 server first) due to not being able to raid because of irregular work schedule, sometimes I catch raids on openraid or groupfinder and have pugged to Archimonde Heroic. This is a great system to me because I want to progress my character as much as possible and progression of character is a KEY and VITAL feature of MMORPGs and RPGs in general (what's the point of getting better gear in Skyrim or Fallout? There are no raids: by your logic). I want to be as high ilvl, as powerful, as decked out as possible (but ofc work for it by putting in time with alternative challenging content), to feel powerful to kill mobs in 2s instead of 10seconds, to aoe pull entire rooms, to solo old content that was previously impossible, to easier get achivements, to pvp, to do mythic dungeons, challenge modes in legion and occasionally raid. Doe that make me a casual player? I have 500 days played on my main 300+ on alts since Feb 2007 I have 21k+ achievement points 80 Feats of strength and countless Legacy achievements and a few realm firsts. Alternative progression paths are NEEDED and this is a great addition for old school hardcore non raider characters like me, who due to work don't have time to commit to a raid schedule but still love the game and charater progression, It's all about personal enjoyment as it is a GAME after all, and the customer is always right. I have sank thousands of £pounds into this game over the years and have 3 accounts upgraded to legion with 100's across all 3, yet you would describe me as casual because I don't have a regular schedule to commit to a hardcore raiding guild??? Total bullshit, in other offline RPGs like skyrim 500+ days played and maxed out chars is insane and unheard of, just because it's an online MMORPG somehow it doesn't measure up unless you raid, which is 1 portion of this huge game? For years people have been getting older with more responsibilities and a more hectic schedule, so their spare time is at odd hours at which usually no guilds raid at, what can they do?? They need an alternate progression path. I hope for solo adventure modes with a hardcore Brawlers guild type challenge to to do when no one is available to play with. I'm aware it's an MMO online RPG but that doesn't mean solo content CANNOT exist alongside multi player content for those who prefer that playstyle, but ofc you can join in raids occasionally and dungeons to give a well rounded experience. The online section for some can be as little as the auction house, world content, dungeons and pvp, they are still participating in the MMO experience, raiding is not the be all end all of RPGs.

[@lordpneumael]

Well, here is my question: Is there a chance this is aimed at getting those casual players INTO raiding? One thing I have noticed about the game right now, getting into raiding if you aren't already a raider sucks. People get super judgey about your gear, your achievements, and they only want people who will help them coast through a raid. If you are a casual player with a moderate item level trying to just get started, you are entirely unappealing to raiders. I know that much from experience. Now, if you have a slew of legendaries that will help the raid by helping you, suddenly they might take a second to look at you, or give you a shot at least.

[@SalvLav]

So the solution is to make end-of-the-expansion BiS legendaries that you grind for fucking 60 hours to get? Terrible system, needs scraping.

[@kippz1337]

+Dustin Bigelow Do Casuals really expect that some1 will always carry them? As i started off with WoW, This February, The First Boss i Killed in BRF was Hans & Franz Normal after trying for like 3 hours... 1 month later i killed this boss on mythic diff! if you really have a goal you will reach it.... DONT GET ME WRONG! I HAVE NOTHING AGAINST CASUALS! but there are people who killed a sertain boss / a whole raid for like 25 times and they dont want to wipe on this over and over again! if you're new go for a guild if you want to be carried, if you want to feel good go hard and enjoy your own porgression... it's worth it!

[@lordpneumael]

+TuC eZiiT- That is just it though, this kind of gearing boost would decrease that "carrying" burden. If you have a few of these items, and you want to start raiding, you will be a lot less of a burden than someone with the bare minimum requirements for entry. Blizz is also catering more and more to the raid scene in this game, which youtubers like Preach here have said themselves is great, but they represent such a small percentage of the player base that they bleed subs like crazy when everyone else realizes they have nothing to do. If they want to keep focusing on raiding, and not bleed money for doing so, getting more people into the raid scene is necessary. Am I calling it a perfect solution? No. Might it help though? It could.

[@cruelcumber5317]

+Dustin Bigelow I doubt it will solve the problem. As the expac goes on, more pugs and bad raiding groups will require people to have the legendaries and an even higher gear score than now because of the legendaries. While it may seem like an easy way to get in at first, unless you want to dedicate all your time to grinding early on, you may very well just be left behind again and we end up in the same situation.

[@Breakfst4dinner]

Take a shot every time Preach hisses out the term ' casuals ', develop alcohol addiction, rehab hinders raiding commitments.

[@amg579]

@preach do you know if the legendaries are boa? If I find a str item in my lock will I just start crying?

[@amg579]

Or maybe you can only get a legendary that your current toon can use?

[@NoContextOasis]

This will only affect the realm/world firsts, raiding is about tactics and individual skill, gear only allows you to progress so far, legendary or not, if you're a good player you'll go far regardless, these legendaries will just help push the lesser player forward a little, only if you care about the dps numbers this will annoy you, don't get me wrong I don't like the system either, you just have to suck it up and deal with it.

[@NoContextOasis]

Taking a look again, I think raiding is pretty boring after you've done it once, I usually do them when they come out and then that's it really, these legendaries might add a little flair to the game play and actually serve to make it a lot more interesting

[@TheSilverwing999]

I agree.

[@sebastianbrear9583]

+Dean Spence The main arguments against Preach seem to be relying on a a perspective in which you lack experience and personal knowledge of how progression guilds actually work, so let's use an example: Timmy and Johnny are raiders in the same guild. Timmy is the kind of guy who goes fishing and herbing to make his own food, pots, flasks, all that good stuff. Timmy is the prepared raider, that spends time farming even for minor dps increases, because he enjoys progression. Timmy sees that he can get a *huge* dps increase if he's lucky enough to get a class-specific legendary, so he goes out, and farms for hours on end. Unfortunately for Timmy, it never drops, but oh well, that's RNG for you. On the other hand, Johnny, who isn't as invested in raiding as Timmy is, just plans on spending half an hour farming his class-specific legendary, and look at that, it dropped. When it comes to progression raiding, the raid leader will, and should, pick Johnny over Timmy, because that's what progression is like. It's not Johnny, or Timmy's fault that one was picked over the other. It's not even the raid leader's fault, and Timmy isn't upset with his raid leader, he's upset with Blizzard. The other scenario, which is even worse, is that Johnny isn't even a raider, he's just a social in a raiding guild who participates in the usual banter. When Johnny sees his legendary, he is excited, but at the same time, frustrated, because he doesn't raid, and he doesn't need to have a legendary, he thinks it's cool, but he doesn't feel entitled to owning a super powerful piece of gear, over someone like Timmy, who scrapes together every possible stat to help his guild.

[@NoContextOasis]

+Sebastian Brear I'd pick the better raider, regardless of gear, RNG has been a part of wow raiding since the start with gear drops from bosses anyway, not to mention rolling for it.

[@NoContextOasis]

+Sebastian Brear let's swing the argument for a second, what if X doesn't have enough time in the week due to commitments and work ect, he doesn't have enough time to spend hours farming for little upgrades here and there like Y does, he puts his time into getting a class specific legendary and hey presto it drops, the item gives him a boost and he can now spend his alloted time raiding now if thats what he wants

[@barramoth3998]

Preach, I have followed your videos since MOP and have always enjoyed and respected your work. I think in time you may revisit this video and feel a little disapointed with it. Whilst I understand you feel frustrated there is no reason to put out content that makes you look like a petulant child. I know your work and you are better than this! I also feel there is no reason to be so dissmisssive, disrespectful and aggressive to so many of your fellow players, many of whom watch this. To intimate that players that do not Raid at top level know nothing of the game is I'm afraid an 'Elitist' trait and one that you exhibit within your discussion/rant. Many of us PVP/Crafters/Explorers/Rpr's have had our game demolished over the last two expansions to 'cater' to Raiders and the Raiding Scene. When you say 'We don't want want our stuff to hurt you' - well it's a little late. It already has. I know you will get back to making quality videos and I hope it soon. Best Wishes. (A pleb/casual/non mythic raider/crafter/pvp'r)

[@loosemoose2097]

+A Lang Agree

[@JoleenTheBoomy]

+Loose Moose You obviously didn't listen to what he was saying. He's not being aggressive, he's asking you to look inside yourself and reflect, to think "Do these legendaries really mean anything to me if I'm not raiding?" The honest answer is, as he said, not really. However, to raiders, these items are vastly important, and forcing the raiders to go farm random mobs in the world (or forcing any player to do anything they don't enjoy just to be viable in their desired content) is bullshit.

[@patrickpihl5198]

+A Lang I'd love to know how exacly has PvP/crafters/explorers/Rpr's suffered at the cost of raiders? I'm geniunely curious? The essence of what preach is saying, from what I'm gathering is; These legendary items are being put into the open world in order to incentivise "casual" players to get out in the world, so they can get these shinny new "legendaries" But in all reality these casual people will have very little gain from these items, since where they will be truly effective will be in the raiding scene. This in turn makes these trinkets immensely powerful for the raiders, which means raiders will have to go into the world and farm mobs to no end, because they need to get a hold of these stupidly OP items, that allegedly should be in the game for a different "playerbase" than them. I would honestly love to know, how have raiding affected any of the other aspects in such a manner and to such a degree?

[@AlvinEarthworm]

+patrick pihl You want to know how exactly has PvP/crafters/explorers/RPer's suffered at the cost of raiders? It's a little thing called Warlords of Draenor.

[@patrickpihl5198]

+Mark Haynes (Alvin-Earthworm) Don't get me wrong I agree that pretty much everything but raiding has been horse dung in Warlords of Draenor. But it makes no sense blaming that on the raiding. As I said it's pretty much been one big shit fest, WoD that is. But that is ENTIRELY due to a seemingly lack of interest in improving their game. They pretty much abandoned ship in 6.0 and just left us to drown, with the one life jacket we all had to share ( in this case raiding ). But that was in no way or form because of raiding. That was extremely poor mannagement from blizzards side. It's not like they took people from the pvp team, the crafting team, the explorer team or the lore team and threw them into the raid team so they could create amazeballs raids. So don't get me wrong, I entirely agree with the WoD being in a TERRIBLE state and having been pretty much the entirety of the expansion, but you cannot reasonably blame raiding for that.

[@skyhighmaximilian]

Right so, if the bosses are balanced around you NOT having legendaries, you can down them without this exceedingly rare random world drop with super awesome power on it. This makes it so that if you someone in your raid group has said legendary, the fight will be easier. You could've already downed the boss earlier based on balancing and now you simply will get a handicap. I don't agree with you here Preach. It doesn't hugely affect the casual player or the raider, at least not to the extend you seem to think it does. Sure, it does give incentive to go out there and farm it for raiders and casuals, but if content is balanced around not having them, where's the harm really? Also while casuals don't *need* them, and neither do raiders really, like you said - they're just cool to have and show off to others. I'm a casual, but I also clear the heroic raids with random groups. Once I'm done with the last boss of raid tier on heroic I just don't go there anymore. For a player like me who spends majority of his time outside of raids, but still does occasionally raid, these legendaries will simply be a cool thing to have drop. Also I'm confident there are A LOT of players just like me - maybe it doesn't come to mind naturally, but group finder is a huge thing right now. Also having played since Vanilla, I can still remember some world drop epics being used throughout some of the earlier raids, simply because they were that good at the time. Skullflame shield and Eye of Flame come to mind, but there were some others as well. This is not a new thing, just a new color of text (item being legendary) and maybe stronger effect on the item.

[@SalvLav]

If these legendaries are actually end-of-the-expansion BiS items, then you WILL need to farm them and farm them MULTIPLE TIMES because having them across your raid and alts will make progress that much easier. Having BiS items drop from fucking grinding mobs is retarded. It was stupid back then and its stupid now. Scrap this system yesterday.

[@Nicklikestogame99]

This video has aged so well. All the people criticizing Preach are probably kicking themselves right now. What a huge mistake of a system legendaries turned out to be.

[@Gremlin9821]

I kind of love this idea because for the longest time I've been the top dps in my guild and I never get gear cause there is none that I really need and I almost don't even want to raid cause I need to wait for others to catch up. At least with this there is something for me to log on for and be able to do on my own to actually progress my character with chance at some point. Just because there are other players that want to play more than a few hours a week you can't make it a wall for others that wish to play more. I actually like this idea or doing something like in Diablo where you can prestige or whatever and you gain just a extremely small dps upgrade each time but really isn't anything dramatic. It's the aspect of feeling you are progressing your character. I raid and pvp mainly but I do like this idea because then I could do some solo play when people are not on but still have something to do. Still pissed about no new BGs etc in arena but at least this would push me to do less pvp.

[@SeraVaeVictis]

You're losing the fight preach, i love your stuff, but if you don't keep the feedback civil you'll just be seen as another raging teenager, kmon man, what do you think a blizzard developer will think if they see this video? they won't be able to focus on your points becuase you're so angry and frustrated, just take a day off or something and chill out.

[@GhostOfTazio]

its not fucking raiders over, you do not "NEED" the legendaries...you just want them...badly. bad enough you think you must have them. you will be able to clear mythic without them. if you want your guildies to go farm legendaries till you die then thats on you. thats your own problem. meanwhile many many guilds will play like "normal" people and be ecstatic to find one out in the world.

[@SalvLav]

Nope. Either the raids are tuned around them and you need them, or they are OP and will make every encounter WAAAAAAY easier because everyone has them.

[@cruelcumber5317]

+Heaterz Given how they are allowing you to get the legendaries without skill, this will either result in an indirect nerf to raids, or a balancing of all future raids around the assumption that your group is at least mostly fit with legendaries, meaning you will need it. Not to mention, the same people who felt that GS was the be all end all will start caring about legendaries even for low tier raids since anyone can get them without raiding even once making it even more of a time sink than people feel it is already for more people to get into raiding.

[@chrisp174]

Not sure how I would form an opinion about this legendary system. Seems cool to have them but if I cant get them will a be barred from most raid groups?

[@JaketheSnakeh64]

Preach, do these still exist? At 15:01 there is a helm that says "Avenging wrath generates 1 holy power per second". But I thought holy power was removed? Please tell me these dont exist anymore and they were a troll.

[@CloakingDonkey]

pretty sure ret pally still has holy power. as far as i know it was only removed for holy and prot.

[@ryanquinn9758]

sounds like Preach ran into a casual forum troller rather than casual player.

[@arabninja13]

is there any chance of them making it do it only works in open world, or restrict it so that it doesn't work in c-moads and normal/heroic/mythic raid like some of the items that drop off rairs?

[@CallumUpton]

any raid boss in legion should have a 0.5% chance to drop any legendary on normal and above dificulty

[@nathandazell49]

I really want the 'fuck off' segment in the last couple minutes as my voicemail

[@hmmmooops]

Honestly, if this makes it to live, it will be LFR all over again. People will think that they have legendaries in the traditional sense, but it'll just be an illusion like LFR was for raiding.

[@stefangriffin3113]

And all the months later, Preach was 100% right.

[@irishaarbear]

It really amazes me how uninformed so many people can be yet feel so entitled to their opinion when it's not based off of any real information. I really feel for you preach, dealing with these people can't be easy. This is the most toxic I have ever seen this community...

[@KyleBJobey]

imagine if there was a system, that Mythic Archimonde had a chance to drop an item that doubles your progression while doing dailies, or if getting 2200 rating gave you an item that increases your damage done to NPC's by 25%. These two examples seem equally silly as the new legendary system. They benefit people in things they don't really focus on. I wouldn't mind if they weren't mandatory for raiders to be able to achieve max dps / hps. Something better would be items that share ilvl with mythic current tier (maybe upgradable when new tiers are released) - So strong items, definitely, BiS? Possibly, but narrow margins. That ontop of being very strong (to casuals) have some sort of fun / beneficial / aesthetic effect, or just in general look badass. This way, casuals get a taste of a proper powerful mythic item, which has some legendary effect. Plus raiders don't have to bust their balls getting it, due to them being so much more powerful than the rest of the items

[@Eatatnite]

I imagine this will work like the exotic system in Destiny. Assuming you are limited to the legendaries you can wear, your gear suddenly becomes an intensely interesting choice and not the boring number crunch that it always has been.

[@samparsons4935]

for the record this all makes sense to me but if this is the video in which preach doesn't loose his shit, i want the outtakes from the first few attempts

[@ohwaititsbait]

Is it because it's Orange? YES of course it's because it's Orange Preach; who doesn't love the Orange?

[@Sodacacik]

i dont see how this hurts raiders if the raids can be completed without them. If the boss dies=victory.

[@SalvLav]

Mythic HFC Can be done with 0 legendary rings. You know what that means? The legendary is nothing but a huge nerf to HFC and the game in general outside of pvp. Either the raids are tuned around them and you need them, or they are OP and will make every encounter WAAAAAAY easier because everyone has them.

[@Sodacacik]

Yes? thats what i said? That is also why every raid wants everyone to have them. If they like the challenge and bashing their head against stuff then why would they want to make it easier?

[@SalvLav]

Do you raid. At all? They want you to have them because they are optimal. You are playing and performing your best across every spec. The fact that literally only 1 guild managed to clear M HFC is a testament to how badass method was, not that raiders want an easy time like you are implying.

[@InfamousNapkin]

[Holy nut sack of Justice and valor] (Use: if falling stretch the nut sack into a bat wing of slow dissent slowing your fall speed, and shading all units below you. Shaded units are horrified and can not move from the for the duration of bat wing of slow dissent. Upon landing you will damage all units within the zone for 99% of there max health and apply a disgusted debuff which will deal the remaining 1% health as a DOT lasting 20 sec.)

[@meistersam]

The information i found was a statement from blizz that it´s not going to be pure random instead there is going to be a way to activly go for them "They are not fully random - better ways for you to find them and to target specific ones." - from Blizzcon

[@kurtcami]

@preach gaming... how are they going to impact pvp?

[@Ozten-gg]

OK i am going to say some bad words, I'M A FILTHY CASUAL. I cannot devote specific times to raiding however i do still raid when i can through Pugs, more than raiding tho i enjoy 5 man content a lot. i know its not great or the highest difficulty but its what i can do and i enjoy it. that being said if this system is pointed toward players like me i think that it is a bit over bearing. for people like me who derive most of our game time from enjoying 5 man content with friends, i get a lot of fun out of running dungeons and getting upgrades in small increments as i progress through normal, heroic, mythic. that's whats fun for me so giving me an item that will remove the joy of drops for that slot for the rest of the Expac is unnecessary, and though i wouldn't complain about getting a legendary it would actually take a little away from my long term fun for ten minutes of orange fever.

[@Katakana01]

put all these legendaries into an mythic only raid and preach would be a happy pupper

[@johnc8327]

Rare gear adds replayability, I'd imagine after losing half thier subs 6 months after WoD. Blizzard is realizing WoW needs more replayability.

[@SalvLav]

Grinding mobs=replayability? Wut. Apexis, such fun, much replay, good content.

[@jackalll98]

+SalvLav Fucking wod dailies. Don't even talk about them :/

[@AlvinEarthworm]

+SalvLav I wish I could punch you for referencing that stupid fucking meme.

[@Schneebly743]

+Mark Haynes (Alvin-Earthworm) Such salt, much anger, so aggro

[@LV426Survivor]

+Mark Haynes (Alvin-Earthworm) Gets the point across though so it isn't all that stupid.

[@Hompuu]

It's fucking simple, legendaries aren't legendary at all if anyone can get them easily. Then they are just normal epics with orange text.

[@jamescuttsiv8963]

I'm primarily a fairly casual player, and I think that for casuals, it's the cosmetic part of the gear that's most exciting. For the most part, as long as you can kill world mobs and do your non-raid content and whatnot, the stats and effects on your gear don't matter a lot, so it's what the stuff looks like that you pay attention to. This was also my main objection when they used the Ashbringer for ret paladins to first announce how the artifact system was going to work; the Ashbringer is a cool sword and it has a cool story behind it, but if suddenly every single ret pally will have a copy of this ostensibly unique and amazing item, it's not unique anymore, which will cut into the amazingness a bit. Since I don't really raid, I don't have a good first-person idea of what the effect on the serious raiders will be, but from a cosmetics/RP perspective, I think everyone having legendary items is sort of missing the point on Blizzard's part.

[@JoleenTheBoomy]

Random legendaries just makes the raiders' lives more miserable having to farm boring world content they don't enjoy to get an item that makes them better (or depending on how the raids are balanced around the existence of this items, viable) in raiding. No one should ever feel forced to any content, and unfortunately, the way most raiders' minds work is that we /have/ to get all the items that help us perform better, because we want to do the best we can, so legendaries like this make it incredibly painful for a raider, knowing that out there, on a random shitty mob, could be the best item in the game for their spec.

[@tripleabd]

There is a very simple solution for this whole problem. removing them totally from the game is just insane in my opinion; however, if they keep it RNG and make them drop ONLY from end game content (raids, Dungs... ect) it would be fine! having them in there would be a better solution from having them random world drops! with this solution we tackle 2 major problems, first it will removing the whole "botting" situation that everyone is against. and second, it will give motivation for players to actually continue and stay on playing end game content even after they finish it! this is the middle ground that i think would make it fair for everyone.

[@jeroenverschaeve3090]

The way I think they should be designed is you have to do a really really long questline and you get one in the end FOR SURE

[@BFGfreak]

I'm curious what you'd think about this idea to balance it: These legendaries drop in the world at a 0.0001% chance, but certain raid tier bosses would have an epic drop which has the same proc as the legendary equivalent, scaling with the tier you acquire it with mythic being just a few ilvls shy of the legendary equivalent. If you luck out and the drop happens to be mythic warforged the game automatically upgrades it from epic to the legendary item.

[@adamhunter1223]

As someone whose just getting into the game and not interested in raiding, could anyone tell me which of these are really overpowered? I haven't made it beyond level twenty yet and a lot of this flew over my head. The extra battle ressurection seems like it's going to be mandatory for just about anyone raiding, but other than that I was kind of confused by most of them.

[@Miraculluz]

Have blizz said anything about this yet? Because its datamined stuff are we sure its not some random legendaries from a dungeon or raid? Is it confirmed to be a world drops?

[@rubrawolf]

As a filthy casual, I'm interested in the legendaries that boost my survival and success rate for extreme soloing. Those blood DK bracers are gonna be mandatory for us too.

[@rek8193]

Nothing wrong with having target-able awesome unique carrots with great longevity available for all players. There's absolutely no reason, pre-beta, to complain about the availability for raid-only players because you don't know anything about drop rates, related quests, etc. It may hurt the 1%, but it seems like a great way to get unique procs to increase your power level mid-raid tier.

[@VoidTracks]

I'd say leave the legendaries in and remove all stats and bonuses and just make them cosmetic. I mostly only PvP so if they don't work in arenas I couldn't give a fuck less, that's why if you made them just cosmetic pieces EVERYONE would have a reason to go out and try to get them, that's if you care about how cool your character looks, but if you don't there's no reason for you to get them but it doesn't hurt you or anyone else. so TLDR just make these legendaries strictly cosmetic/xmog pieces & everyone wins.

[@Wodferd]

10:44 Grovewalkers Resto Druid: Oh man what are these cool boots i found? Oh dear god i'm going guardian.

[@ivantheninja2100]

Whats up with bramble helm of Shala'drassil?

[@ivantheninja2100]

Destiny driver is leather but war equip. GG blizz

[@ivantheninja2100]

TBH, the equip stuff seems cool, but could have been made diff. Would be cool if they were fleshed out better

[@NATEOH]

That ending was just savage. COLD BLOOODED

[@sashaaurora8983]

Just putting my 2 cents in. I'm a raider who raids heroic HFC and I like the idea of this. It gives me more reason to play then just raiding.

[@larsthomasbremnes6810]

Yes, but it also gives you a reason to not stop playing until you have them. Rather, you _can't_ stop playing until you have them, because if they are as singularly powerful as these, then they will make or break raiding. Stopping farming them for even a single second furthers the chance that someone else will get them before you, and if they do 20% more dps than you solely because of that item then you are obsolete. Getting benched because you didn't get an insansely powerful random drop but someone else did is not fun.

[@toaonua523]

Blizzard's goal with the new legendaries IS NOT to give people gear ~ it's to get people out in the open world. They realized instanced content won't lead to socialization anymore. The drop rates will be as low as rare raid mounts of not lower. They have to make them strong to make people want to get them, but they certainly won't negate the value of epic gear that you have a much higher chance of getting. Both sides of this argument are wrong sides of a false dichotomy.

[@ScottJuencke]

Love you more and more every video, Preach. 100% agree with you on this.

[@richardb8157]

Cata to Warlords - "remember when epics were hard to get?" Legion - "remember when legendaries were hard to get?"

[@wraithryder]

so the GREAT thing about these is that they are an excellent reasons for EVERYONE (regardless of how/what they play) to go out into the world. Directly piggy-backing off the Garrisons where ppl had no reason to go into the world, now there's the best reason in the game to go into the world. That's it. there isnt more motivation to it than that. It's excellent incentive to be out there and more importantly even if you're not after these, there's still a chance at it which makes for an awesome feeling when it happens. Their randomness & soulbound nature makes them COMPLETELY unreliable & thus NEVER mandatory (since there's no way to guarantee them unlike past legendaries in mop-wod where it was expected because everyone SHOULD'VE had them because there was no rng in its acquisition) And they're really cool too! Very special because they modify what you're able to do rather than just (boring) higher ilevel/stats. Not an artificially contrived special because its rare but because what they do are actually cool and special. im looking forward to these and glad they are SOULBOUND drops from the world

[@bracksza]

Everytime I queue for a premade raiding group I get declined by raiding supremisists because I don't have ilvl 700 gear. This system will let us "casuals" have a chance to say "screw you and your ilvl, I have an OP item that doubles my damage or heals people so I am needed in your raid." This legendary system will help get everyone into high end content, not just the high and mighty, hardcore raiders.

[@SalvLav]

I found your problem. You are pugging for your raiding experience. You are doing it wrong.

[@bracksza]

+SalvLav What else am I supposed to do then? My guild doesn't raid and it seems that no one is bothered to help new comers.

[@bracksza]

+SalvLav I just need a guild that raids often with end tier content. I am a newbie but always get in the top 8 in LFR when there aren't a ton of mythic/heroic guys in it.

[@irishaarbear]

+Matt Brackenbury but how can you be certain that the lower ilvl players will have that and the higher ilvl players wont. These items aren't going to have a higher chance of dropping for players with low ilvls so really its just going to increase that range from what players can do at the lowest and highest ends possible. They're effectively making the issue worse for you :(

[@davidthomassteer]

+Matt Brackenbury - I get what your saying but lets just take a look at the new valor system with increase of ten ilevels per item. So you have guys that have got baleful/AH-BoE's/Crafted/Legendary/Old-Raid tier and have increased there ilvl to say 710. That 710 ilvl 4 months ago meant you had suceeded in completing the harder bosses in HFC HC, and thus was a good grounds for accepting them into a pug. Now, you have 710 guys that really do not understand their class, they do not understand the fight mechanics, they do not respond when the raid leader asks them to things during the fight or even not to do things (like popping legendary DPS ring on Socrethar before transition). So you have to understand, granted an ilvl doesnt make a player but its certainly a good indication of whether that player is capable and experienced and I for one if running farm bosses will request mythic kills achievements if they are running on alts. You may say this is elitist, it isn't. Its about time spent and productivity gains. You can always make your own group on the finder and lead it which will do two things. 1). Make you pro-active in the game and not rely on others to accept you into groups, you have to remember you are your own man and this is your game time. How you spend it is up to you, you dont always have to be the victim. 2). Most importantly, YOU will need to lead. I cant emphasise how important this is. You will learn so much and also about how hard it is to manage a pug group effectively, along with class balancing, mechanics, use of utilities, the list go's on and on. I will recomend anyone who wants to raid to do this it will help you so much even if it is a daunting concept.

[@Emidretrauqe]

I'm a casual player. I didn't want legendary items, I want that recipe for that high society top hat to drop. A top hat means more to me than any RNG legendary could.

[@xXJonathanAshtonXx]

I wasn't aware of this until I saw this video. I can't believe this is actually happening.

[@mksteele99]

There is such an easy solution.... make these "Legendaries" unusable in instances. Casuals get to show off their amazing gear and people who raid don't have to farm moose for weeks to get them.