NEW LOTRO MMO is OUT OF TOUCH

[@Monique-iz8lp]

I can't wait to see a LotR MMO from a company that completely failed at making both LotR and an MMO

[@Jasmixd]

The inevitability of the outcome is quite poetic.

[@aelix56]

Can't wait for them to spend an ungodly amount of manpower in stupid stuff like when they raceswapped npcs in lost ark but didn't have all the classes the korean version had on launch 🤣🤣

[@MaitreMechant]

maybe 2 negatives will make one positive jk, it will suck

[@alex_ho]

They treat mmos like some kind of marvel movie to repeatedly churn out expecting to hit gold one day When mmos are a hell of an investment and require constant attention, maintenence, and care to be successful.

[@RussMullins]

upshot is they'll probably teach a lot of out-of-work journalists and actors how to code. :D

[@kronksstronkstonks6360]

- Failed to make an MMO recently - Godawful LOTR content recently - Target audience has an established MMO with a thriving community CEO: *All your players are belong to us.*

[@Sephiroso.]

There's probably less than 30k people playing LOTRO on a daily basis. There's a ton of people who would love to play a LOTRO mmo but they're not gonna play that garbage ass MMO. The only reason anyone would play that game is if they are just a die hard fan of LOTR or they simply played it when it first came out and grew attached to it and it's community. That game is not gaining new players because it's way too old and the monetization is some of the worst possible. Thriving means it has a ton of new players joining. That is not what LOTRO has. It has a dedicated community, not a thriving one.

[@chrismancini9539]

@@Sephiroso. I understand its an old game with old gameplay and graphics, and would probably only appeal to fans of Tolkiens world. But I don't understand the hate on its monetization system. I got into the game when I was looking for a lore accurate LOTR experiance after the disaster that was the Rings of Power, and part of the reason I've been sticking with it is the monetization, so far the entire game has been free and I've only seen things like convenience and cosmetics behind pay walls. So I'm curious what the problems are because maybe I just haven't seen them or haven't gotten far enough to reach them yet, but so far it seems reasonable to me, especially when compared to some of the crazy cash grab games out there I've seen.

[@Sephiroso.]

​@@chrismancini9539 Perhaps these have changed since the last time i played it years ago because when i did, a ton of ridiculous stuff locked behind the cash shop. Things like bag space, mount speed, run speed boost, hp regen boosts, attack/armor and other literal stat boosts(so no question it was P2W). You could buy classes, and most frustratingly of all, the vast majority of the story content was locked behind quest packs you had to buy individually as well unless you bought a lifetime package before the game went F2P a long long time ago. You also had to pay to really participate in their alternate monster vs player gameplay mode. Now again, i haven't played the game in quite some years so if things have changed on that front then i'll stand corrected and take back my words about the monetization being absolute garbage. But even with the cash shop aside, my other points still stand simply because the game is too janky to ever garner a thriving population which is why it's maintained it's small hardcore fanbase and was never seen as some great mmo. Even back in the late 2000s when it released it was never making any "best mmo" list hence why they had to drop their original sub model and go the F2P model because people felt it wasn't good enough to pay a monthly sub for. Sorry for the novel.

[@chrismancini9539]

@@Sephiroso. I appreciate the detailed response, It helps me to understand what you mean, I guess I just didn't see some of the aspects that way. Like the boosters are still in the game but I had honestly kind of forgot about them, Boosters like that definitely have potential to be predatory, but to me that happens when developers cripple your base character to the point those boosters become necessities and not options. I at least have never felt that way about them and never felt I needed them, so I never got them and kind of forgot they existed. I can understand how seeing someone with the boosters can make some people feel like they are P2W, which is fair enough. But the way I personally see it simply doesn't matter to me, In PvE Co-op games I don't feel like I'm competing with other players, but I know there are players who want to be better and I get why they would see it that way. I hope the boosters can't be used in Player v Monster but honestly I tried that mode once and it was empty, and I never went back to it again so I'm sure that mode has many flaws beyond just that. When it comes to quest content, pretty much all of that is free now, as far as I can tell only the last 2 expansions are paywalled so you can reach levels 125-130 out of the possible 140 without reaching a pay wall, I am in the 90's now and I don't know any other game I could have gone this far in without paying anything. Sorry I'll try to wrap it up, I'm sure LOTRO started off with a vision to be a genre defining MMO. that clearly didn't happen, and it is still far from thriving, But I think now the game kind of knows its place as a niche, expansive, middle earth experience and I think it serves that purpose and community pretty well.

[@Sephiroso.]

@@chrismancini9539 I actually looked into it after reading your comment. It seems they've definitely changed their strategy with the quest packs when they launched the game on steam. I probably wouldn't have been as annoyed with the game if i had played it in it's current state than when i did years ago(probably around 2012 or so).

[@misakitakazaki8951]

Fun fact: this is exactly why they decided to name their company "Standing Stone", since their old company Turbine was bought and the drones in suits were about to close the games. So the old developers opened a company of their own and bought the rights to keep the games alive.

[@Xeire]

Smart ass move imo

[@CrizzyEyes]

It's amazing that they still update the game. They must have struck quite an incredible license to be able to continue working on and selling that game.

[@Spazticspaz]

Asheron's Call Devs are wizards.

[@sukaenacornelius9285]

Gamers and pioneers sold out to big companies ran by MBAs and made by employees that are DEI hires.

[@ThePeopleAreFucked]

i dunno..i played LOTRO a lot in the past and i played DDO even more. Loved the games but i am not hating the idea of bringing an end to the neverending powercreep and miliking of the leftover playerbase. if they would remake ddo, axe the ingame shop and let it run with a low mothly subscription fee then i would sing up for life and i know quite some ppl who would as well return if that was the case, because the content was very nice.

[@deyedrah]

I remember picking up LotRO around 2012, I think before it was even owned by Standing Stone. Some of my fondest memories are in that game. I was part of a guild called the Crimson Blades. I was mostly a solo player, scared of doing dungeons are really any group content, but I was a wide-eyed eighteen year old who had decided to haul up and go to college five hours away from home, and I didn’t have many friends to talk to. The Crimson Blades got me through a pretty bad depression during that time. It was such a nice group. They didn’t just do dungeons, or raid. We threw parties, did events. People made cookies and sandwiches to eat and hang out at the guild house. My favorite memory is from a summer party. We had this keg in the guild house that when you drank from it, it would send you to a random location in the game world. So we made a contest out of it. 100 gold to the person who ended up in the weirdest place. I used the keg, and woke up with no pants, stranded on a glacier in the middle of the sea near Forochel (basically the arctic of middle earth). You better believe I won that 100 gold. I don’t play LotRO a ton these days, but I absolutely wish it the best. I had a lot of fond memories in that game.

[@kaladrios]

I always end up in Forochel when I use that keg. No idea why my characters love the cold so much lol

[@AlexGorskov]

Thanks for sharing!

[@gameburn178]

For some reason, LotRo doesn't have a very toxic community -- in fact it has some decent kinships and a world chat you don't have to embarrassed about. I suspect that the game's design -- including the emphasis on the lore -- is a factor in this.

[@Elkendrien]

We had one of those as well. I remember one time I woke up in the Waterworks of Moria. Good times 😄

[@journeyengine]

Yeah, LOTRO's community is one of the nicest and friendliest in online gaming, as well as possibly one of the smartest, considering the number of times I've seen highbrow complex discussions on fully university level language and literature and etymology.

[@neasper]

Amazon game studio management is made up with people that just don’t know how games work.

[@vnkfrancis1328]

How much you're betting it'll end up as half-assed as New world on the release?

[@TheKrid44]

@@vnkfrancis1328 fuck i spent i think close to 81 hours in new world before i went meh i had fun going around mining and gathering stuff but the game itself was a whole other issue

[@neasper]

@@vnkfrancis1328 depends how much quality control embracer group does.

[@vnkfrancis1328]

@@neasper Only two things are certain in life death and taxes.

[@Zibbit27]

This is literally what he was saying multiple times throughout the video lol.

[@melissas4874]

I think the exec or someone else also said they were not "constrained" by the agreement with the Tolkien family to stay as true to the lore of the game - I'm sure that will make those who love LOTRO rush right over! The reason most of us liked LOTRO is that they tried to be as faithful as possible to the lore and had to be creative to do so in a gaming style where players are typically the "hero". It also shows that he knows nothing about LOTRO, their community, and why people play it. It's not just the time sink.

[@thehellscourge]

My educated guess is that the MMO will be your typical action type MMO. You will have the classic 3 classes of DPS, Tank and Healer, there will be no housing nor transmog system, and of course, a working cash shop with extra MMO rings and pets (Get your gollum pet for just 4,99 sold for 799 tokens, which are only available in 1000, 1500 and 2000 token bondles), with a focus on end game pvp. Extra story content? Its on the roadmap, ignore the YEARS of content that LOTRO already has and is enough to suck you in for more than your regular singleplayer game has.

[@xinf3ctdx]

Literally none of this should matter to anyone. The biggest problem is that it’s related to Amazon in any way. That alone means that this is gonna end up tanking. None of the other details should even be considered because nobody should be making it that far before losing any hope for this game.

[@melissas4874]

@@xinf3ctdx You maybe should have put your last sentence first because community events (that the community organizes, not the devs) and the other lore-related elements of the game will matter to a majority of the LOTRO community. So Josh's point was that people from LOTRO won't just jump over because there is a new LOTR MMO. People talk about FFXIV's "community", LOTRO's community was honestly doing it before FFXIV. They had housing first, housing events, etc. There are many people who played FFXI and have never played FFXIV. Also I don't know that Amazon's association alone will tank anything - people still watch Twitch and refuse to even look at other streaming platforms. If it fails it will be because Amazon is kind of lazy in their development and goes a generic route - which also ties into my original post.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

I'm sure Amazon/AGS will find a way to screw it up with woke crap.

[@xinf3ctdx]

@@melissas4874 No. Just read the comment before getting upset and throwing a tantrum over what I’m saying. And you don’t know if it being associated with Amazon is gonna tank anything? Really? The half a dozen games they tried and failed to make, plus everything that happened with New World, and you don’t see any issues with this one being associated with Amazon? You know what matters much more than the lore and community events? The game coming out and actually being fun to play, and if you know even half of the things that went down with Amazon in the last few years, you’d know that both of those aren’t even halfway guaranteed. So idk why you’re even considering the lore aspects of this game when there’s a very real chance that, at any point between now and the game’s launch date, Amazon very well might just come out and go “Uh, yeah, so we’re cancelling the game because making an MMO is super hard and we learned absolutely nothing from New World.”

[@filiformis]

"I expect that they'll all just move over" This isn't a "not understanding video games" line, this is a "not understanding how humans work" line.

[@bipolarminddroppings]

But thats not what the Amazon exec actually said, and the fucking QUOTE WAS ON THE SCREEN SHOWING THAT.

[@attaug]

@@bipolarminddroppings it's not exactly what was said, but it is part of what was said, the exact quote "I think they can actually co-exist. Even though the most likely scenario is... for people to just move over, because the other one is an old game. It's not a bad game, but the industry moves on at some point, and it's a long time from their release to ours." The Amazon suit pretty much said that he expects, according to what he believes to be sound logic, that people will just jump ship to a newer game because it's newer. Realistically what'll probably happen is people will play both games for a few months and then move back to exclusively the older LoTRo because they prefer it. To sit there and expect a mass exodus just because you have a shiny new product is excessively ignorant and shows a lack of critical understanding of how commerce works. If it's a new item that improves how something is done, he might be right, but when it comes to a service which people are used to and invested in they typically won't move just for something new, it has to be significantly better to get them to move. People are creatures of habit and it's hard to break people's habits.

[@Exotic-ps7vi]

@@bipolarminddroppings It's not all that they said but it is the summary. While the exec said they believe the two can coexist, they made the statement afterwards that the players will most likely move over purely because the game is old which... isn't how classics work really. Maybe with fps where the devs stop supporting the game after they produce a new one, but that often isn't how everything works with MMOS.

[@zibix4562]

@@bipolarminddroppings Yes defend the multi billion dollar company on semantic, that totally makes sense.

[@ZeldaTheSwordsman]

I mean, MBAs are basically a lobotomy.

[@CognetoBurrito]

When the average joe is rubbish at something, keeps doing it, refuses or otherwise ignores outside help, believes what they're doing is correct, gets the same disastrous result each time and is totally surprised that they got that same result again, we call that person an idiot. In the context of the gaming industry, we call that person an executive.

[@Sephiroso.]

Those companies make a shit ton of money hand over fist for what you considered failures of a game so no shit they keep repeating it. Instead of focusing your ire on these executives making their companies millions and millions of dollars, focus your ire on the brain dead morons giving them money which is the SOLE REASON they continue pumping out the garbage that they do.

[@xXDESTINYMBXx]

Please, think about that poor yacht!

[@d.w.6584]

Sadly this executive mindset is not restricted to gaming industry.

[@jamesmalousek6542]

That’s actually the definition of insanity.

[@Donnerbalken28]

TO quote from Zero Punctioations: Let's all laugh at an industry that never learns anything tee hee hee.

[@jamesfbeveridge8694]

I read the same sentiment from the CEO of the maker of amazon's new MMO and felt the same. It was stated that he said that players will just migrate to their MMo because it will be like moving from a black and white TV to a colour one. Yeah. . . right. I was there from the Beta to today and have no plans on leaving.

[@fang_xianfu]

It pretty much goes to show that everyone making MMOs has no idea how or why they make money, and they're just throwing games out there and hoping they stick with no real business plan. It's like they see the one or two really successful ones and just forget about all the failures.

[@jamesfbeveridge8694]

@@fang_xianfu, it wasn't only the beauty of the landscapes (I'm a fantasy/landscape artist) but the story telling through the quests. SSG has a master in Tolkien lore, scripting the background stories to weave them into JRR's world building epic. The stories for the Epic quests lines are simply great as well as the regional ones. I have my doubts as to whether amazon's chosen game makers know or care as much for the content as SSG's seems to apply with theirs.

[@joshuaxiong8377]

"players will just migrate to their MMO because it will be like moving from a black and white TV to a colour one." a 1998 corolla is still better than a 2023 luxury car that will combust after 5 miles.

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

He would be an idiot, if his main target was the less than 100k people who still occasionally tune into LOTRO. He will be acquiring a way bigger audience than them. And no matter how snobbish people in the comments may be: Most of the Lotro players will try the new game. If the game is good, many will stick. If it‘s bad, they won‘t. If it‘s good, but they prefer the lore in LOTRO, nobody will care, because there will be plenty of people playing regardless.

[@fus132]

@@zamanthafensterscheibe3601 Not with their track record.

[@ASIRA89]

I think there are 2 main player groups in MMO games. The "settlers" and the "nomads". One type of player made an MMO their home after they found the right one for them. The other jumps from one MMO to the next in hopes of becoming a "settler".

[@Prawnsacrifice]

Im very nuch in group 2 one day i may find a mmo that actually holds my attention 😊

[@fiwz7840]

I was hopping around MMO's, even gacha games. Either nothing clicked with me , games died shortly after or it became too tedious. I happened to try FFXIV a second time. Pushed through the slog till first expansion and stayed.

[@cornprices1718]

@@fiwz7840 ff14 really needs an option to just skip through ARR for players with a recap. I understand ARR is hugely important for setting up the plot, but it is easily the weakest part of the whole game which sucks because it's the introduction

[@sleepysera]

The one you want to attract really is the settler kind, though. Because the nomads are gone the second the next big sensation rolls around. They're the reason MMOs launch to millions of players and within 3 months fall to a few thousand active players. Unless you manage to milk the nomads dry in that short timespan before they leave for the next game, there's no long-term profit to be made off them 🤷‍♀️

[@fiwz7840]

@@cornprices1718 agreed

[@mr_ekshun]

Remind me again why executives deserve 10000x more money than any of their employees?

[@maecabre]

They don’t. In any industry. They’re all spoon fed and out of touch

[@IRedpunk]

In theory accountability/responsability, hence being more subject to being fired if the projects fail. In reality, it’s not like that at all. Golden parachutes and all that.

[@maecabre]

@Time is our most valuable currency. careful man, I’ve heard that much boot leather can be bad for the tongue

[@rudeboyjohn3483]

​@Time is our most valuable currency. What are they putting in shoe polish these days?

[@waywardscythe3358]

@@generalwretch1822 "ThEy Do ReAlLy HaRd WoRk"

[@jbshbsskskhbs6713]

Amazon's executive also said he doesn't think it's important to remain faithful to the lore, because people can just read the books if they want Tolkien's lore. Big red flag if the first thing they say before it's even in development is how much they don't intend to honor the IP.

[@J1mmy]

I like to believe you’re not wearing pants alongside your great looking vest and dress shirt, and it makes the experience here incredible every time

[@dragons_advocate]

This has been going on forever. To quote Yahtzee Croshaw from a Zero Punctuation video from 10 years ago: _"You don't want to play any of them 5 million provably good old games, grand-dad; all the cool kids exclusively play the five or six new games for the new consoles that have less gameplay features but prettier lighting!"_

[@VitchAndVorty]

That's literally how 'modern gaming' operate. Less gameplay, but more graphics. Goddammit, just fucking watch 3D movies in 4K, you guys!

[@hsanrb]

"but but but... running two servers is more expensive... than running one.... how dare you not understand the money you can save by taking your successful server offline and joining our brand new server playing something completely different and totally not as good as what you've grown up with and continue to play." -The death of the new game

[@trokolisz3702]

Except, they dont own LOTRO and they are making a direct competitor. They are not running both, they are runnin a new one, that they hope will outperform the old, outdated one. Also he said ""Even the most likely scenario is for people just to move over, because the other one is an old game. It's not a bad game, but the industry moves on at some point, and it's a long time from their release to ours.""

[@Exotac]

@@trokolisz3702 That actually makes the statement even worse lol

[@Sephiroso.]

@@Exotac His actual statement isn't that bad. What do you expect a competitor to do? Root for their competitions success? Obviously his ideal scenario is people move over to his studio's game. He may have been a little based in saying it so candidly but it's fucking obvious that's what any company would want when making a game that's in direct competition with something that's already out. And everything he said about LOTRO being incredibly old is true. Not to mention it's dogshit ass garbage monetization. The only people who got a halfway decent deal are those who were able to buy the lifetime package back when they were sold. That game sucks dick in ways that classic WoW and OSRS don't on a fundamental level. It was literally one of the many WoW clones that failed to gain any real success beyond making a meager profit so as to not shut down.

[@Exotac]

@@Sephiroso. Amazing. Almost everything you just said is wrong. I'm not saying that he should have rooted for his competition. I'm saying that should have been more diplomatic and recognized that the community of LOTRO is a good portion of the kind of people who he's going to be TARGETING with his new game. But moreover, his statement just shows a foundational misunderstanding of the reality of video games. Exactly as Josh himself pointed out, people; many, MANY people at that, stick to older games all the time. Not even just classics, just if a game is better, people stick to it. Modern example? Dying Light 2. Despite Dying Light 1 being from 2015 and Dying Light 2 having dropped early last year, Dying Light 1 averages more concurrent players than Dying Light 2, and the bulk and share of the community generally agree that it is the superior game. "New" does not make people jump over, albeit briefly during the initial revealing. To get people to actually SWITCH, you need to be GOOD. But he, at no point, put forward any good factors ABOUT his game and focused solely on the idea that just "People will move to the new thing" as if new automatically = better is something that most users would agree with. The opposite is true. His statement just is not a reality of the industry in any way shape or form. Not to mention, there was a MYRIAD of better ways to respond to a question like that without PISSING OFF YOUR POTENTIAL CONSUMERBASE, which is exactly what taking an arbitrary potshot at one of the most venerable old MMOs, is doing. Because I'm sorry to say buddy, but your opinion which is clearly overwhelmingly negative of LOTRO, doesn't impact the reality of its success, nor the majority opinion. LOTRO is a WILD success story. The fact that it STILL EXISTS sixteen years later is indicative of how well it has done. Its been successful enough to spawn 10 expansions. It maintains a modest playerbase likely ranging at five to ten thousand or so; which given how old it is and the fact it was never "on top" of the market, is extremely impressive. Most of the MMO community who don't even PLAY LOTRO, respect it for what it has accomplished. A faithful recreation of Middle Earth by a team that clearly absolutely adores the setting and treats it with the upmost respect. And this idiot just turned a whoooole lot of those people off to their new offering on principle. Not to mention that after New World, and the fact that this game will likely be set in the wildly unpopular Rings of Power continuity, mean that right off the bat they are alright in a uphill battle against PR. An uphill battle that he just flung a tub of grease onto.

[@mushafasa]

@@Exotac Personally I'm waiting to hear the big news that Amazon just cancels again lol

[@Clorgisclorg]

You can't expect MMO players to just "move" to another MMO. This is why so many "WoW killers" failed. Because MMO fans will not budge for any reason unless you slowly and politely help them move all their boxes to your new place. And even then, you have to expect they're still going to see that other MMO on the side until you prove the move was worth it; and that will take a long long time.

[@godofm3tal1]

Considering LOTRO has less than 1000 daily players I imagine this new developer has literally given zero thought to even caring about that games community and only rambled off that line so he could say he answered the question.

[@paano93]

@@godofm3tal1 Not sure where you got this number from, but LOTRO still has an estimated 30k daily players and NW already is down to an estimated 100-150k (note: many LOTRO players dont play through Steam). Amazon over-confidence in thinking they can drop a new MMO that will just replace a sizable existing one is staggering given where their current MMO is at. Their game will be a top 10 MMO, but it'll be taking players away from New World, not LOTRO.

[@TheLastAxeman]

Amazon dude is really a villain like the whole company LOTRO has great and dedicated community who really loves how much detail LOTRO has and how much attention is paid to actual lore. SSG is doing great job, and LOTRO is lovely adventure really allowing you to experience Middle-Earth.

[@godofm3tal1]

A community of 800 concurrent players. Yeah.

[@uqs57bju]

It's actually kind of funny that some executives don't know these things. This is not just a phenomena in gaming. It's absolutely everywhere. In marketing, you are taught about this type of consumer and how weird they are. That's not meant in a bad way. They just behave so differently than what other consumers do. You need to do extensive research into how this specific type of very loyal consumer works before doing anything. Chances are that they are not worth the effort. There are newer, faster, louder, cooler and more comfortable motorcycles than a Harley Davidson. This hasn't gotten these people to buy them. I'd argue that this phenomena is in the same spectrum. This isn't just a thing in games. It would be a mistake to think that.

[@augustday9483]

It's called soul, and obviously most business executives don't understand it. A committee can't create a product with soul.

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

@@augustday9483 he would be the biggest idiot, if he tailored the game for a small hardcore community of a 100k players. He‘ll bring a new shiny toy and many in this comment section, even amongst the most insufferable gatekeepers will test it out. If it‘s good, it‘ll be good. If it sucks, tough luck, you can go back to whatever MMO you want. The guy built both the Bioshock as well as Borderlands franchised. He knows how to produce great games. So why are you so pathetic? „Games with soul“. There habe been plenty of awesome AAA games coming out in the last 10 years. And guess what, all of them had one goal: Make money. His first priority is making money. And that is fine. His second priority is a good game. And we‘ll see if he can deliver again. So why are you guys so dramatic about it? What‘s the worst thing, that can happen? It sucks and you simply won‘t buy it.

[@whimmywhamwhamwazzle9195]

​@@augustday9483 because amazon deleted the souls of all upper management long ago

[@otrikas]

@@augustday9483 The devs that actually work on the game can and do that otherwise we wouldn't have the albeit few good AAA games.

[@gameburn178]

Look at the failures in movie making lately: Disney's self-destructive alterations to their key franchises (Star Wars and Indiana Jones, recently) appear to be based on the same assumption: "it's all crap, so if we make new crap that checks off a few bonus boxes, such as gender equity and race redressing, then we'll only increase our share of the market. People will just consume the new shiny stuff, especially if we tell them it replaces the old stuff via upgrade." Makes a superficial sense until you actually try it out: turns out customers aren't idiots, turns out the there is a difference in quality in the literature/franchises you mess with. Turns out customers are more than customers: citizens with opinions.

[@danang5]

not surprising that a higher ups from that company is full of hubris

[@gamezonereactions8388]

These corporate leaders are picked by diversity, nuff said.

[@thatHARVguy]

Sheer fucking hubris.

[@theobell2002]

@@gamezonereactions8388 Go push your right-wing agenda somewhere else, my dude.

[@Xhistris]

It was even worse than just "they'll come to us", it was "they'll come to us because our game will look better", followed up by "If you want to be true to the lore, go read the books instead of playing our game"

[@mushafasa]

That does sound like a better use of time, at least they had something intelligent to say

[@thatHARVguy]

Sounds a lot like: "And if you don't like my politics, don't buy my book." -Kelly Sue DeConnick We all know how well that worked out.

[@bleack8701]

@@mushafasa sounds like a bunch of reasons not to play their game, that's for sure. If it's just going to look better and have a nonsense story then there's no point in it existing

[@Nerobyrne]

@@bleack8701 sure there is, to make money ^^

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

He didn‘t say that. He said: If i have to make compromises between following the lore word by word and gameplay, i might chose the latter. But even if Amazon didn‘t care, there are IP holders, who in their best interest will make sure, we will stay true to the lore. If people want to follow it word by word, they are better off with the books than GAMES (AS IN ALL GAMES, because who would have thought, Lotro does make compromises as well, even though you snobs seem to forget about that) anyways.

[@NotTheWheel]

LOTRO is the only LOTR mmo in my opinion. Such a great MMO and great RP community.

[@Sephiroso.]

That is a trash mmo idk what you are smoking. The RP community may be great and i'm sure that's fun for you but the MMO itself is garbage. Not even a 5/10 game. It's way below average, 3/10 or 4/10.

[@NotTheWheel]

@@Sephiroso. You're not even a 5/10 human being why do I care what you have to say?

[@Sephiroso.]

@@NotTheWheel Aww, someone is mad someone don't like his favorite mmo. You do care to a certain degree because you replied back with an insult lol. That shows you care.

[@NotTheWheel]

@@Sephiroso. I was just giving you the response you deserve. People can dislike whatever they like but your level of vitriol towards the game is cringe. I got no investment in that MMO btw, but it seems like you do? (If you're not a complete moron that is - so who am I kidding you probably don't) From what I've seen and heard it's pretty fun for a LOTR fan. I'm sorry the game didn't match your subjective standards, random loser on the internet. You can go now, you're such a huge piece of shit the stentch is emanating through my screen and quite frankly it's unsettling for me.

[@CharterForGaming]

​@@Sephiroso. that's your opinion lol. the people playing it disagree. I don't know what your favourite games is, but there are plenty of people who would rate it 1/10 whilst you think it's 10/10 Common sense, ever heard of it? 😂

[@jbwooten89]

One of the major reasons I’m not playing most new MMOs is lack of build diversity. New games only give you like 5 skills to use (4 attacks and an “ult” kind of meta) or if they have more skills available then there aren’t more than just a few viable combinations of skills. I’ve yet to find anything that’s like, for example, Dark Age of Camelot.

[@crowhaveninc.2103]

I'm gonna become a streamer. I'm posting this here, because I suspect Josh's entire viewer base will just move over to my stream. That's how it works, right?

[@MegaUchihaSaske]

Only if you look better than him

[@unifieddynasty]

Man, LOTRO's been here for so long they've already finished books to the Scouring of the Shire and relived the reconquest of Erebor. lol. Can't expect people to ditch all of that and start from the beginning.

[@straylynx]

The LOTRO community, in my opinion, is the best out of any gaming communities that I've been a part of. No bashing, newbie friendly and all around pleasant to hang out with. Damn, I miss having the time to play that game. Laurelin [EN-RP], I love you!

[@LarsSigvard]

I recently returned to the game and my new guild all came together to craft me armor. This game is something else.

[@straylynx]

@@LarsSigvard For sure! Always helpful, generous and non-judgemental. Everyone is welcome and welcome back!

[@Aaron-mj9ie]

Not only will they not move over, people will actively resurrect old games and run private servers (That they do even like) just to play the old game.

[@atraxian5881]

My guess is that most of the people who play tlotr online now are very invested in the lore. The rings of power took the lore, stepped on it, spat on it and tried to set it on fire. Just for that I don't expect them to make the jump so easily.

[@Groblinmode]

To be fair, so did lotro.

[@AdamsAquaria]

where did rings of power do those things? It wasn't a perfect series but tell me exactly where it spat on and set on fire the lotr universe. Bonus points if you dont use the word black in your response

[@aglaraandune6602]

@@AdamsAquaria Let's see here... Removing the Kinslaying from the narrative and casting the Noldor in a heroic light despite them being quite physically in exile for their actions... Elendil sailing off the west coast of Numenore (biiiiig no no in the history)... Finrod's entire character. The Rings of Power weren't forged at the same time as Elendil's existence, but rather about a thousand years before his birth which means several key events are either going to be cut out or compressed, Moria and Celebrimbor are not on friendly terms, relying rather on Elrond as an ambassador . Also the West Gate of Moria isn't around yet... because reasons? The Elves acting entirely out of character for themselves, Sauron's claiming of Mordor, Mallorn trees in Lindon and Moria. Suggesting that Numenore is still in isolation. The injection of Modern day politics into the narrative. Numenoreans using horses in warfare. Numenore not having an army. Gil Galad taking on some of Sauron's attributes. The Forging of the Rings of Power is entirely out of order. Mithril being somehow key to the elves immortality... (I still don't understand this one. It's so fundamentally flawed from a lore perspective.) The Palantir scene. Numenore's political landscape. I could go on, but I think the point has been made.

[@manic-n5n]

@@AdamsAquaria Ouch, you got owned son. You're obviously not a Tolkien fan. What say you? Bonus points if you don't use the word black in your response.

[@ProfessorShnacktime]

@@AdamsAquaria Hey, what the dude above me said, but also elves aren’t black. Ever. That’s straight from the source too. Let white people own their own stories.

[@Goremize]

I love that the first reply the moment you said what the director said was just "lol" Cause it sums it up quite well. Even funnier now in the future knowing that this new game was cancelled

[@Grandleon]

I'm happy for the fans of LOTRO that whatever deal the publisher made, they can keep that game going seemingly in perpetuity. Same goes for Star Wars The Old Republic. I'm not sure many IP holders would allow such a deal today.

[@Sephiroso.]

LOTRO estate is handing out licenses to LOTRO like fucking candy nowadays because Tolkien's son or grandson(i forget which) was the last person who tried to uphold some manner of standard when he appproved someone to do something with the LOTR name and he died. Granted, i thought LOTRO was a pretty trash game even in the 2000s as it was simply one of the many WoW clones just with the LOTR coat of paint on it and it was terrible. The monetization was atrocious too, only good deal they had was the lifetime package and they stopped selling those because it was too good of a deal.

[@thatHARVguy]

@@Sephiroso. Yup, his son Christopher Tolkien. The rest of the family only cares about the 💰.

[@jonathanj8303]

Until amazon finds a way to lean on standing stone games (LOTRO publisher). Amazon is a massively unethical company, run by narcissists and it has deep pockets. They'll find a way.

[@ihatevnecks7015]

​@@Sephiroso. Lord of the Rings Online (much like all the other recent LotR video games) is licensed by Middle Earth Enterprises, not the Tolkien estate. This is the company that Embracer Group (who Amazon announced this new MMO deal with) purchased last year, from the Saul Zaentz Company. They own transmedia rights (IE: everything but books, essentially) for content relating to the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings. Tolkien's estate still owns all book rights as well as media not directly relating to the Hobbit/LotR, which is why they're the ones Amazon made the TV deal with for Rings of Power.

[@Sephiroso.]

​@@ihatevnecks7015 Ahh i see, thanks for the extra information there.

[@KingKool2099]

"New LOTR game is out of touch" Me: Oh, boy, he's going to rip on Gollum! Me, six minutes later: Wow, this has not been a good week for Lord of the Rings.

[@aglaraandune6602]

It hasn't been a good year really... except for the books that got published. Those are delightful.

[@KingKool2099]

@@aglaraandune6602 They're making Lord of the Rings BOOKS now? Are the movies that popular? Wow, I guess if there's a gap in the market enough that they think a Lord of the Rings BOOK will sell, I guess they'll try it. They'll probably invent a new character and call him Tom or something and make him sing a lot.

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

I don‘t get all the screaming.. He literally said, he thought his product would be better. What president would he be, if he thought his work sucked ass?

[@Fnord4]

The comparison to AoS was fantastic, having played both 40K and Fantasy at the same time, the switch to AoS killed any interest I had for fantasy. Having loved the system and its difference to 40K, seeing it so radically changed to the point where it felt like I was playing 40K, I stopped playing Fantasy and switched to 40K entirely. GW has never been the best when it comes to respecting its players, with the constant price increases, power creep which capitalizes on people wanting to have the unfair advantage and makes people buy the new overpowered army (only for it to be nerfed a week after the codex drops), but the change to AoS felt too on the nose. I'm so glad Old Worlds is returning, which I imagine is what the LOTRO players felt like when they heard they weren't being abandoned.

[@stitch77100]

Great comment. I loved Warhammer Fatntasy (the lore and the minis, even the old ones of 4th or 5th editions, clunky but fun) When they destroyed the world, I felt like they were trying to take something away from me, something I deeply cared about. But thanks to all the alternative fan projects, I can still very much enjoy my Warhammer itch, and I did even started to spend less cash into it. So, I'm not interested at all in AoS (it could have been a good skirmish game, but became a mediocre battle game) and I don't really care for the old world, as I have invested some time and energy and money into the better alternatives that were present. It feels like the amazon games executives are pretty much on the same level of "I don't understand my gamers)

[@basedeltazero714]

Games Workshop made Age of Sigmar because, as it turns out, people weren't buying Warhammer Fantasy - old players already had everything they wanted and new players found it uninviting. (The fact they hadn't released new models in a good while contributed, but was also caused by this). So they made Age of Sigmar more like their runaway success 40k in the hopes of getting some of the 40k players to buy in. Like, they knew WHF players probably wouldn't like it, but 'Warhammer Fantasy Players' had already proven a rather dry market. Of course AoS 1st edition had the problem that it also sucked ass, but eventually they managed to get it at a level where it outsold WHF significantly. ... aaaand then Total War Warhammer came out, and was a massive hit, and that got some people into AoS but also created a significant demand for actual Warhammer Fantasy, so now they're trying to find a happy medium of a game that appeals to the formation enthusiasts and whatnot while still being accessible to casual players. It probably won't bring back many of the old grognards, but... if they'd made Warhammer Fantasy 9th Edition instead of AoS they wouldn't have shown up anyways.

[@blockmasterscott]

Been playing LOTRO since launch day, April 26th, 2007, and I still play to this day. I freaking love that game.

[@nattyicegaming8133]

Not only do you need to understand how video games should run without microtransaction-ing it to death, but you *must* have some decent knowledge of how Tolkien’s works operate to satiate fans. Quite frankly, Rings of Power’s writing, coupled with the inability to have a non-broken game with good gameplay loops (New World) gives me no hope of a successful LOTR MMO produced by Amazon. The graphics and landscape would be amazing, but that’s like garnishing a turd. I understand Rings of Power’s writers and the game studio writers are different people, the fact that it seems to be with any media that Amazon has tried putting out, it still doesn’t give me much confidence.

[@rasmachris94]

The funny thing to me is that as someone who has played most mmos trying to find a forever home. From free to play, to buy to play, to subscription models, I've played a substantial amount, know common systems, business models, quests, progression avenues, raid mechanics etc. I'd never even consider making a LOTR mmo even if I had the studio and funds, because i know how die hard the fans are about the lore and know that i wouldnt be able to do it justice. I may know a lot about mmos but i know enough to know that i know jack shit about LOTR which is the centre piece for the MMO. And these execs are making the new LOTR mmo with even less understanding than me and acting as though it will appeal to all fans of the franchise. It's laughable how naive and out of touch they are.

[@TheGosgosh]

@@rasmachris94 out of touch? They are straight up greedy. They know nothing of gamers, just that they are another demographic they can (try) to milk for profits. Statements like his show, that he’s in for the money. Not for the wants of the players, but the profits he is responsible to bring in. Now, being a CEO and wanting to bring in profits is good, it is expected. It is also expected to keep your Bad takes out of the public‘s eye 😂

[@journeyengine]

Considering how incredible LOTRO's landscape is with it's ancient but still pretty graphics, it's a hard bar to top that I've seen few games, whether MMO or not, achieve in terms of the feel of sheer scale. Some have been bigger but few felt bigger. And Amazon Games Studio ain't the ones to do it.

[@PaladinLagnir]

The idea that Amazon thinks they can make a successful MMO in the RoP universe is hilarious. It's an MMO equivilant to an asylum film, but they got a hold of a big budget.

[@VoiceoftheRings]

Love your comments and the channel man! My channel dose mainly Tolkien and LOTRO and I had these same thoughts. They are so Out of Touch. Sure we want a new Lotr game. But the things he said... the CEO Even threw shade at lotro for being Old and then went on to say "there game will not be as Faithful to J.R.R. Tolkien To focus on Gameplay". What is he saying? It can't be a Lotr MMO with out Tolkien! it would just be a Fantasy one! lol Great Video Josh Strife! I love to see your a man of Class and also Like LOTRO.

[@SilverionX]

Great content to watch as I'm burning Swordfish in the Hosidius kitchen, OSRS style. I'm not even an old player. I started 6 weeks ago!

[@mangoarcher3298]

I mostly play single player games, so I won't comment on the mmo aspect, but LOTRO made me read Lord of the Rings. It's THAT good at representing it's source material. Amazon can't even think about reaching that quality

[@gustavogoesgomes1863]

it's the reason I have interest in the books too. I mean, I like the movies, but the game... it makes you wonder how many stories are hidden in those places and people. it's really cool

[@pepita2437]

Agree 100%!!!!!

[@TirOrah]

I did, in fact, move over to GW2. I even gave most of my stuff away to some newer guild members who wanted to stay in GW1. Boy, did I regret that about a year later, when I realised none of the fundamental aspects of the GW1 experience carried over. I quit GW2, went back to GW1, and play it to this day.

[@Thrano]

The amazing part is, that the versions with "everyone else" are increasingly the classic versions.

[@Sephiroso.]

That really isn't the case when you look at the numbers for the industry as a whole instead of cherry picking a few examples where that's true. There's a reason the industry is moving farther and farther away from the design philosophy of the 1990s - early 2000s. Because they're making a shit ton more money in doing so with modern day designs.

[@Thrano]

@@Sephiroso. Yes but I wanted to be the funny.

[@MyVanir]

@@Thrano Alas, that worked as well as the rings of power did at being quality lotr content.

[@OM3GA-Z3RO]

Publishers: I expect everyone to move over." Me: "That... That is not how it works...." That sort of mindset is what kills their game, expecting people to just drop everything and "move over"

[@awesomewinter3103]

3:59 WHAT IN THE FUCK IS HAPPENING TO THE POOR GUY IN THE BACKGROUND?! Also great metaphor for "I expect them to move over"

[@GamingPhilosophe]

This is not surprisingly in the least anymore. The people making the decisions at Amazon games have repeatedly shown that they either don't do any market research in the market they are trying to enter in. It's the classic case of "too big to fail", but they aren't such as in the case of Breakaway and Crucible. This came as a shock to me because with so much money being thrown around at Amazon they couldn't bother to spend less than half of a percent of their budget to look into the market and consumers they are trying to win over? Perhaps I'm wrong and they did do market research, but if that is the case they either didn't do a good job or are just not listening to it.

[@EastyyBlogspot]

We measure companies on the hit and miss rate.....but Amazon games have been miss and miss

[@gamezonereactions8388]

All misses for Amazon, except for delivering packages. Who had the brilliant idea that a package delivery company could make compelling video games and movies?

[@xXESproductionsXx]

4:00 anyone notice the poor bastard being pulled down into the pits of hell to be tortured for eternity?

[@Nico78Not]

Amazon Game Studio's management being out of touch? I am shocked. Flabbergasted even! How could we have foreseen this? *vaguely gestures at New World's decaying corpse and at Crucible/Breakaway/The Grand Tour's skeletons* Oh.

[@lazydgsf7429]

Hey now, Clarkson and the boys had to stop traveling the world some day. I’m surprised one of them didn’t get killed. But The Grand Tour has some of their best episodes of all time, Top Gear or Grand Tour.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

I think they are quite touchy, if you know what I mean, don't bend over.

[@Geheimnis-c2e]

​@@lazydgsf7429 he means The Grand Tour game that flopped, not the amazon prime series. THAT was good, whether they perform in a tent or only specials every year, I don't mind.

[@Ram-wv8kb]

I bet the Executives are asking lawyers to try to find a way to shut the old LOTRO MMO down... somehow

[@VioletElite4]

Yeah, it is frustrating, because I remember when the original LOTRO came out in 2007 when Turbine was in charge of it, and you needed a sub fee; came with 30 days, and then my Dad turned around got me a 60 day game time card, so for the first 3 months of my LOTRO experience, I got to play for free :)

[@RPGCrash]

trying not to be snarky or nothin, Standing Stone Games is Turbine. WB Games took the Turbine name and used it to make mobile games, while the original Turbine was let go, while also allowed to keep their games as they are, so they rebranded to Standing Stone Games (something something a now independant studio) i have no knowledge on what happened with the Daybreak partnership though, unsure if they own SSG or just run their servers.

[@LightS_bRight]

The Standing stone micro transactions currency can be earned reasonably quickly compared to other micro transactions.

[@asemov2707]

You forgot the big one Josh, the new LotR game needs a compelling story, and the Amazon TV show really showcases that it does not. I wager no matter how much hype Amazon has, the original LotR will stay, and people will definitely not move over to a game who's in the hands of people who can't be bothered to stay even remotely to the original story.

[@kristiandevil]

I honestly believe that there isn't a single executive that isn't out of touch

[@lunova6165]

When he said he, "Expects," them to move over I think he quite literally means because i have a sinking feeling they are gonna try to brute force it somehow.

[@bloodgodalucard4769]

This is actually a good take from that exec when it comes to normal single player games or console multiplayer shooters, sports games, etc. It just isn't a thing with MMOs since people get attached. It's very reasonable to say "You guys enjoy Modern Warfare 2? Great. Modern Warfare 3 is out now. Come on over." And everyone does. Because it's the new game. Why play the old one when the new one is out? That just doesn't apply to most players when it comes to MMOs. You can't judge boomers too harshly though. They don't play games. They don't understand games. They just assume everyone will want to do the new thing because it's new.

[@jack90054]

And even single-player shooters don't always transfer their player base fully. There are always some who prefer the older games more. Heck, when Battlefield 2042 crashed and burned, people went back to Battlefield 5 and even Battlefield 1! To this very day, Battlefield 4 (the one that came out in 2013) still has a steady 2000+ players per day on Steam. 2000 daily active players can smoke like 80% of MMOs out there.

[@ihatevnecks7015]

That's true, but what he said also isn't completely wrong. The expectation that the hardcore niche of LotRO players will move over is likely very off-base, especially if Amazon's game has any kind of action combat similarity to New World. But at the end of the day Amazon's game is going to be the new thing, so it's going to get *far* more attention than LotRO ever really did. I've always loved a lot of LotRO, but similar to other legacy titles like EQ1 the reaction most people have even hearing about it is "wait, it's still running?" So much of the current MMO generation haven't even heard of the game, let alone played it. That's not a problem Amazon will have unless they royally fuck up like they did with New World; and even then, having this IP will carry it much farther than that game.

[@raffg8185]

Yeah because they started so well with New World ,I dont see anyone leaving LOTRO after 15 years for anything AGS makes ,Its gonna need to be totally brilliant for that to happen.

[@Cidriel]

to be fair, there is a pretty big example where people *did* switch over from the "old version" of a game to the "new hotness": FF11 to FF14. it just took them putting FF14 back in the oven for it to really stick. the rest of what was said is spot on though.

[@KhronicD]

And to be completely fair, I was there. I experienced the massive shitstain that was FF14 from beta to when they took the game offline. It was something that had never been done before, and it took some guts by the devs/publisher to even do so. But it had to be done. And BECAUSE they admitted they fucked up and took such massive steps to fix their fuck up, that FF14 still run as one of the most popular MMOs out there today. You think anyone at Amazon would have the balls to even suggest that if their new MMO was as fucked on release? Sure didn't happen with New World. :P

[@pepita2437]

@@KhronicD And it didn't happened with Rings of Power, which was so bad only 30% of the watchers finished watching the last episode. People were angry, and they would have accepted an apology from Amazon, and even would have watched the show if they re shoot episodes, and improved the writing to b more faithful to Tolkien. Instead they called us bigot, and racists, and outright evil.

[@uxtalzon]

It's being made on the game engine used for New World. You know, the game that lags to death if 100 players are standing around nearby, or if 20 players are fighting each other.

[@Capt_Dango]

lmao yeah, I saw that interview and the LOTRO community reaction on reddit which was basically just "hahahaha no." I do genuinely hope that by some miracle of the Valar than this new game is good, I'm never gonna completely leave the current game, but a new experience sounds fun......but I'm not holding my breath.

[@hertbran]

Thinking people will just "move over" to Amazon's new game is absurd. I bought LOTRO when it first came out. I do not think I'll be "moving over." New fancy graphics don't do it for me. The gameplay and story have to fun, which LOTRO is, for me. Josh also mentioned Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I played Warhammer Fantasy Battles. I put up with them splitting my favorite army (Undead) into two completely separate armies (Vampire Counts and Tomb Kings). I put up with them splitting my second favorite army (Chaos) into three separate armies (Chaos Warrior, Beastmen, and Daemons), yes, I had to buy new miniatures to be able to play my Undead and Chaos armies, but as soon as they came up with "Age of Sigmar" I have not bought another Games Workshop product.

[@DuskoftheTwilight]

The example at the end makes me think of how when DnD 4e came out, a large segment of the community just stuck with 3.5 (or moved to Pathfinder which marketed itself as an extension of 3.5)

[@basedeltazero714]

And then 5th Edition came out and obliterated them both.

[@fusiondew]

Amazon can have fun making their little basic “beginner developer MMO’s” and patting themselves on the backs, but I think their cockiness and lack of understanding of what a video game even is will end em pretty quick. They make it very clear to everyone that they don’t care about making people happy and just want you to buy their game so they can make more money.

[@dannokk4743]

You can't make a good video game unless you genuinely love video games

[@RoloFilms]

Its not just that people are invested in LOTRO, it's also the previous statement 'a fundamentally different game'. Do you expect FPS players to suddenly enjoy RPG's (if they didnt previously)? People whove been playing LOTRO play it for the specific feel and vibe, they dont want something fundamentally different.

[@MagiKez]

It's two different studios for the LoTR games? Well, of course they're going to want you to switch over. I think it's more about what they want to happen and less about what they know will happen.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

Amazon/AGS will end up outsourcing all the work to 3rd party devs, just like New World.

[@Sephiroso.]

@@gamezonereactions8388 What are you even talking about? New World wasn't sourced by 3rd party devs. It was made by AGS. Amazon Game Studios. Their management just didn't have a clear focus on what the game should have been and that was clear due to it changing sub genres like 3 different times. Also Amazon forced them to make the game in an engine that wasn't fully tested and ready for an MMO which is why it had so many issues with lag and desync and all the other myriad of issues New World faced. Not to mention it was rushed out the gate like no other. That game needed at minimum another 12-16 months before it should have been released. But none of those issues were because Amazon "outsourced it to 3rd party".

[@gamezonereactions8388]

@@Sephiroso. You might want to check your facts, New World is currently being outsourced to multiple 3rd party developers. Go educate yourself.

[@sasquatchbill9430]

@@gamezonereactions8388 Not seeing anything about outsourcing, maybe provide some information since this is the claim you are bringing up.

[@steven7936]

Brought to you by the same studio that made the Golum game.

[@Ish216]

I unironically have like 8000 hours in LOTRO and i can confirm there is pretty much no way for me to play the new one - unless a lot of my friends would switch over (but they are currently mostly playing LOTRO or FFXIV) I hope it will be a good game, but I am generally suspicious if a modern version can catch the same charme as the original LOTRO.

[@dallassukerkin6878]

For balance, I ditched LOTRO about eighteen months ago - the gear grind, server performance and monetisation finally got to me after twelve years. Thanks to a certain fellow who it seems has a KZbin channel {points to the video above :)} I switched to GW2 and have never looked back ...

[@ThatAnnoyingGuyOnTheInternet]

So after following their successful MMO New World with fan favorite Rings of Power, they decided to mix the two for the ultimate gaming experience.

[@darianstarfrog]

Nobody like r.o.p lol 😂😂

[@pelisinho]

It shall be one of the games of all times

[@dankoftinoff8119]

Lol, I remember playing tons of LOTRO over a decade ago, great fun and people. Turbine offered a lifetime membership for like 200 bucks that I bought, wonder if its still valid might have to check. However, one thing I remember about the game was how well crafted the stories were and the amount of lore they included. With the failure of Rings of Power and changing of Tolkiens work, I cannot foresee an onrush of Tolkien fans leaving LOTRO for a Lord of the Rings Lite MMO.

[@aloshonikplays4907]

it's been out there for 16 years... you can't just assume people will move over to the next game because it's the "next thing" and especially not in mmos...

[@atrane365]

preach

[@MGW27]

"Hey loser, why are you reading that classic novel? You know they publish new novels, right?" Whether your talking about video games, books, movies, or any other kind of media, classics are considered classics for a reason and are worth playing, reading or watching. Newer does not automatically mean better.

[@Lexipumpkin783]

maple story 2, was tragic. had only 6 classes vs the 200+ and never really got updated outside of cash shop items. Gameplay was super fun

[@Sephiroso.]

The number of classes had nothing to do with why that game was trash. Maplestory didn't start with 200+ classes either. The game was just trash at it's core and simply was a moneygrab trying to profit off of a popular trend at the time which was the voxel/minecraft style games that were big around then.

[@Lexipumpkin783]

@@Sephiroso. The game was super fun both pve and pvp, the classes was the biggest issue a year later and you still have the same classes and content but 9 billion skins on the cash shop, Content draught = leave

[@Sephiroso.]

@@Lexipumpkin783 Classes != content. Yes content drought = leave but that's because there was nothing to do beyond the daily/weekly system they had and once you were done leveling that dried up incredibly fast because the game was incredibly shallow. Again, the number of classes that game had isn't even in the top 10 issues the game had.

[@schwingadysn]

If this new lotr mmo will be of any resemblence to the tv show in terms of atmosphere, qualities, almost noone will move over

[@Captain-Jinn]

The best outcome is the new LoTR mmo turning out ok but at least introducing LoTR:O to a new audience to give it a try.

[@quentinplummer2339]

Lotro was made by Turbine who made one of the greatest games ever-Asheron’s Call.

[@hertbran]

I played Asheron's Call for years when it first came out. I tried playing Ever Quest, but I couldn't stand having to sit around forever to heal after a fight.

[@Panhammer64]

this just made me reinstall LOTRO. It was my first mmo and it's time i go back

[@roksoulja84]

Lotro is all i need… tbh the game may be clunky but the world design and small details down to the bone is on point from the books its insane… lotro is probably the only game that stays really close to the source material…

[@tomastuharsky]

Well, having cash to blow and talent to spend often attracts wrong kind of leaders.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

The fact whoever is in charge actually believes that throwing money at something is like magic pixie dust, is high on their own ego and copium. Too many ass kisses around them, makes them feel like demi-gods, but they are more like demi-tards.

[@SergeantInfantrymen]

THANKYOU for always mentioning or never forgetting Everquest, coming from a person who used to play ALL MMoRPGS on launch to a person who refuses to play new MMORPGS "800 hours into new world and i lost it" Everquest will always hold a very special place.....to the point that i just started up Project 1999 and its AMAZING.

[@FortunePayback]

Part of me also laughs because I highly doubt Amazon games learned a damn thing from New World.

[@digitalbear8809]

Good vid, I especially enjoyed the man getting dragged to hell at 4:00

[@apex403]

This is why Josh is the best... he just gets it.

[@redcoatgaming4141]

Lord of the rings online is also fun as a roleplay ( I been doing a lot of roleplay in ) if this one going to be like new world no roleplay to be had

[@TheOneSin7]

Those people are so disconnected from the product they make, thank god they earn so much money they don't need a conscience.

[@jamesl8053]

The issue with these execs, is that they assume all gamers are the same, regardless of genre, that because most people just jump on to the new CoD and FIFA games and abandon the old one because they want the new stuff, means that all games are the same, where in reality those games are the exception, msot people still play old games from other genres, games like Diablo 2, Kotor and most mmos have huge audiences that are commited to still play them and will probably for most of their lives, you get invested into games an just because they're older doesnt mean you will just rop it for the new model with less features, more charges but a fancier paint job (and even that is debatable), but it's especially true for the mmo genre, the amount of hours people invest into those games in particular are ALOT so for someone to expect them to just give up and move on only shows how out of touch they really are, and whats worrying is these people do hold the money and power to just snap up a lot of studios, and can ruin our enjoyment, its why smaller companies like indie studios and private ones like Larian, are to be treasured while they still hold player interest at heart.

[@mortenwheeloftimem2911]

Yeah, this got me really frustrated as well. I don't always like what SSG does, but I have a lot of respect for them. Which is not something I can say for many gaming companies.

[@Chris____.]

Your respect sounds as Shallow as the puddles in Deserts.

[@darkshadowsaver]

Amazon has a horrid track record with ruining mmos so if they make a Tolkien inspired game it definitely ain't going to be cannon to Tolkien's works.

[@hovsep56]

Ye he completely shot himself on the foot on that quote, everyone will remember what he said. So when the game ends up being bad, they'll completely get laughed at for their entire life. It'll be tower of fantasy all over again when they advertised themselves as the genshin killer. When someome says something like this they better be confident their is really good.

[@the_dark_soul_of_man]

If Amazon tries to buy out LOTRO, hope somebody will leak the source code

[@doppelkammertoaster]

It sounds like they were not lacking any confidence, good for them! But I fear that might not help keeping an open mind to hard design feedback from the game designers and people making the game. If their last MMO is any hint to what they believe a good game to be there is indeed not much to expect. Probably good looking though.

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

Christoph Hartmann arrived at Amazon Games and basically scrapped most of what New World was at the time. Because it was garbage. Hardcore PVP MMO, without any engaging casual content. He knew, they‘d never be done in time, if they had to start semi-fresh, he did it anyways, because he saw it as a learning project (that‘s how New World is seen at Amazon, even though you folks are all not seeming to get it). It was one of few Games that they ever published. You need time to get rolling without a working infrastructure. That takes time. The guy is responsible for games like: All civilizations since IV, Prey, The Darkness, Mafia 1+2. He built both the Bioshock and Borderlands series. He knows what he is doing. And i‘m glad he‘s confident. I don‘t know since when Josh became such an elitist gatekeeper. He usually rants about them. Let‘s face it: Most of the people, who play Lotro will test out the new game. If it‘s good, they‘ll stick. If it‘s bad, they won‘t. I don‘t see, why he shouldn‘t be confident.

[@Chris____.]

​@@zamanthafensterscheibe3601 Everyone always ignores the fact New World is an MMO: - made in 5 years (fastest "successful" one ever made), - remade from scratch in 2 years, - using an Engine thats not for games, - using Code thats not for games, - Graphically displaying the highest on the Market (in the MMO genre), - Mechanically using the Hardest combat to code for Online games (not even FromSoft can pull it off competently), - with no IP backing it, - STILL pulling around ~33k - 68k players daily while it only released in 2/5th of the world. Publicly, it might seem like a failure to everyone thats ignorant. Profesionally, the game is an incredible feat of achievements, to what Amazon can do with their money. New World is how theyve been able to get so many MMO Publishing Contracts. And its currently their Golden Goose to make long term profits, in Markets that they were never able to reach before. Eitherway, I got off-topic. Most currently LotrO players will try the new MMO (when it comes out in like 10 years), enjoy it, quit it (as it will most likely be Theme park styled) and then realize the current LotrO they have played for years, is ABSOLUTE DOGSHIT, so they will also quit that game, and then do who knows what, cuz they are probably like 70yrs old. I also dont see the reason why Josh got mad at the comment of the CEO, as if the current Lotr Version was absolute god tier (no one playing it bro, the only ones in it are Stockholm syndrome waiting for more Lotr content).

[@doppelkammertoaster]

@@zamanthafensterscheibe3601 If this guy believes this, no. He might be a game designer but quite apparently does not get MMOs. New World was a huge pile of crap. I don't care this was testing grounds. Wtf. You don't make people pay to play your testing ground title. Make a goddamn good game. FFXIV 1.0 failed, then they made 2.0 and fixed the issues. They tried. They didn't do what Amazon did, and just let it die. They learned and improved the title.

[@zamanthafensterscheibe3601]

@@doppelkammertoaster the guy arrived at Amazon when New World was half done. And objectively, it‘s still a good game. I don‘t play it. But a lot of people do. It‘s not dead.

[@robetdd3307]

LOTRO isnt allowed to go anywhere, i bought a $200 lifetime subscription when the game launched and i expect to get my money's worth

[@jeramii03]

Every time I play LOTRO I get that horrible lag that is apparently rampant. Great game though when im not rubber banding or stuck in place waiting for the hiccups to stop lol

[@lukefrederiks5906]

Amazon trying to ddos the Lotro servers lol

[@gamezonereactions8388]

Latency and Desync is what Amazon/AGS and New World excel at...

[@Sephiroso.]

@@gamezonereactions8388 That's because the engine New World was built on wasn't ready yet but they rushed the studio and told them to deal with it. The new LOTR mmo isn't being made on that engine so at the very least, it's not 100% that it will have latency and desync issues off rip as it would have been if they were making it with the same engine.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

@@Sephiroso. Don't ever release a game on an engine that "isn't ready yet". And why did they release it to open source and move to Unreal Engine 5 for their future mystery secret MMO they are working on?

[@Sephiroso.]

@@gamezonereactions8388 I mean, almost every mmo in development is migrating to Unreal Engine 5 because it's that good lol. That at the very least makes more sense then trying to keep working on a failed engine like Lumberyard was for New World.

[@chunkydumper6156]

But won't they just see the title and think "Oh wow words I like in an order that makes me smile, I will now buy product TM" ?

[@aidenchia3663]

I'm honestly curious to see if the new Amazon LOTR MMO is going to appeal to Tolkien fans who are more familiar with the books.

[@gamezonereactions8388]

If Rings of Power was any indication, it will be a 💩show.

[@JosephDavies]

It would be difficult for them to do a better job than SSG has done with LotRO in appealing to the fans. Not impossible, but _very_ difficult, and statements like this show no intent to outdo SSG either.

[@Chris____.]

@@JosephDavies That _very_ difficult, doesnt sound as difficulty when you realize SSG can barely maintain their hardcore fanbase players. The game is such a failure commercially that most Lotr fans dont even know that MMO exists.

[@lukemwill99]

So glad that you mentioned Guild Wars 2. It's a prime example of how to make a sequal of a much loved existing MMO.

[@themurmeli88]

Considering all the money Amazon has, I'm surprised they didn't just buy LOTRO instead of risking making ANOTHER failed MMO.

[@ihatevnecks7015]

It's not like AGS can just casually pull money from all of Amazon's pockets; like every department, they have their own operating budget. Plus SSG's owned by a holding group that probably wouldn't give a cheap sale. No reason to spend a millions of dollars on a niche 16 year old game when you could spend the same amount to build your own new one.

[@RealmDesigner]

It's funny that you think that NewWorld "Failed", you clearly have your markers of "success" a bit messed up. New World has sold over 40 million copies and made hundreds of millions in direct profit for Amazon Games. Why the hell do you think Amazon has been collecting MMO's to publish? Because they saw all the money they made on their first MMO which had a problematic development, no sub fee and still made bank.

[@themurmeli88]

@@RealmDesigner We indeed have different standards for being successful. By your standards, Disney remakes are a success. My mine, they are not. Why, because my standards are those of a consumer, i.e. is this worth my time and do I enjoy it. I could not care less how much money it made, because I am not on the board of investors. That you'd think that I should, now that is funny.

[@Chris____.]

@@themurmeli88 It doesnt matter if yours are not, because "success" is not an opinion, its a factual statement confirmable by money. Lotro is a bleeding project, New World is a successful business venture. They simply need to recreate what they have previously learned, combined with an existing IP, and easily makes expected profits (and very likely surpass them since the LOTR community doesnt even know an MMO already exists).

[@themurmeli88]

@@Chris____. I have a perfect game for you, it's called Raid Shadow Legends. It has way more players, and it has made way more money, like 50 times more than NW. Look it up, those charts are going to make you squirt in pure joy.

[@ZomgRAWR93]

"New one is out, everyone will move over." Me, still playing Morrowind that came out 22 years ago

[@chaosgyro]

Wait Josh...how can you not ABSOLUTELY LOVE the Sigmarines? They were focus grouped to have the highest potential income!

[@OldSpaghettifactory89]

You mean warhammer fantasy that had like 12 players and was selling worse then a Matt Ward codex? as opposed to AoS that is selling competitively with 40k? and the old world only being ressurected because total warhammer sold a gajillion copies? keep coping though

[@basedeltazero714]

​@@OldSpaghettifactory89 Every once in a while, the focus group is actually right. WHF wasn't selling, partially out of a self-fulfilling prophecy, but also in large part because the number of models needed had got to such a level that it was unweildy for newcomers, the playerbase was resistant to change, and they already had all the models they wanted. And it had acquired an... off-putting atmosphere, after all the effort they went to scrub the grognard off 40k. Maybe they could have saved it... but probably not. So they went for a different audience, and the WHF players kept doing what they were already doing, which was playing with the armies they already had. Games Workshop tried their best to kill AoS in the crib with that shitty, shitty first edition but eventually got their act together. It's now doing quite well, the AoS playerbase may have little overlap with WHF players but they've got quite a bit with 40k, and a bunch of new players... And then... Total War Warhammer came out, basically being to Warhammer Fantasy what Dawn of War was to 40k - and Dawn of War was *fucking huge*, it took Warhammer from 'niche hobby' to 'one of the five most popular sci-fi franchises' (Which is still... not a small pond, but a small sea next to the ocean of media, but still). The Old World is aimed at Total War Warhammer fans, who like the setting and are already used to formation movement. (I'm not certain, but I believe that WHOW has independent heroes, for instance, a distinct characteristic of both modern 40k/AoS and TWWH). (also for what it's worth, the infamous Matt Ward codices didn't sell noticeably badly - though this probably had something to do with the fact it's the Space Marines, who basically print money - certainly better than his other major work... the Warhammer Fantasy 8th Edition rulebook. He also wrote the Daemons codex for WHF 8th Edition and it is the single most overpowered faction GW ever inflicted upon the meta. It wasn't so much for bad sales in the moment but potential harm to the franchise's reputation that he was reigned in. Well, that and the death threats, which... I mean, it was bad, but it wasn't *that* bad. He mostly writes fiction for Black Library and consults on video games (Darktide, notably) now.)

[@vert2552]

"you are playing wow classic? why loser?! Why won't you play amazing games like New World?" - 100% leaders of Amazon The funniest thing is about their approach that they literally just lost MILLIONS on failed LOTR content (TV show) and MMO and now they are doing combo of it and assume "people will just move over" and even crazier thing is i trule believe he believes in that statement

[@JennFaeAge]

I get really annoyed at some of the Sigmar complaints (and I don't even play the game), especially because a decent chunk seem to be picturing it as it was eight years ago, rather than now where even as a 40k fan I would kill for the 40k team to come up with as many creative ideas rather than yet more Space Marines

[@Exotac]

That doesn't matter. The hardcore AoS fans (And I say this as someone who likes AoS as a game but not as a setting) don't seem to understand that there is NO WAY to get the Fantasy Battle fans to get on board with AoS at this late date. At most, you'll have people like me who will buy some of the models because they're very good models (Full SBGL, GSG and StD armies), and play the game when the game doesn't suck (it currently does, but it didn't used to), but won't ever interact with the setting or fiction or intrigue of it all because it's all shit to us. A pitiful excuse for what it replaced. Even the game itself is nothing like what it replaced. One, a heavy tactical regiment focused game. The other, 40k with less guns (and even that became less the case as time passed and we started getting bullshit like fucking Overwatch in AoS in the form of Unleash Hell). Meanwhile, the Old World was bolstered post-mortem by the release of TWW and Vermintide, to the point that the fandom for the Old World utterly ECLIPSES the fandom for AoS in spite of the fact that it has no corrosponding tabletop game. In otherwords, the original claims that "AoS was a mistake" have been ENTIRELY vindicated. If GW had just fucking supported WHFB, especially alongside CA the way they are now, since CA was knee deep in developing TWW when GW was trying (and failing) to convince everyone to adopt AoS, they would have stumbled into an absolute gold mine. Instead, they're stuck playing catch-up re-building a game that they already had from scratch to capture a new audience that won't be as receptive anymore because the most grand period of hype behind the revitalization has come and gone. There's a damn good reason that they announced The Old World project YEARS ahead of it being able to release anything noteworthy to show for it. The whole thing is a desperate bid to course-correct, and you can bet your ass that if The Old World manages to tap into even a modicum of the massively bolstered fandom of WHFB that has come about in the years since its end, support for AoS is going to slow to a bloody crawl. So basically, you're in a situation where AoS is still struggling to gain any semblance of relevance outside of with core wargamers, since all the game developers by and large are nerds who grew up with either WHFB or 40k and those are the licenses they want to use so it is gaining basically zero traction in any third party media. Meanwhile, even with TWW3 having an extremely poor launch, it was still a wild success, and every reveal for The Old World is met with an excess of excitement, even from people outside of the hobby who are now "waiting for the old world" to jump in. You aren't going to convince WHFB fans to try AoS. As far as they're concerned, it's a battle they already won. I'll be happily rebasing my entire StD army onto squares, if they suitably slot into the new game properly.

[@WompaStompaCyn]

@@Exotac I promise you AoS fans don't sit around wasting their time thinking about wfb fans until another one of you crawls out and mouthfarts yet another unsolicited essay on how much you hate SiGmArInEs.

[@ihatevnecks7015]

@@WompaStompaCyn Fucking amen.

[@Nalier]

I couldn't agree more. Exactly my thoughts, when I read that interview. The sheer audacity of that Amazon executive, jeez

[@celotharobar]

So, to be fair, the context of what he said was in regards to whether or not the new game meant that LOTRO was closing, and he was saying that no, LOTRO wasn't going to close, because they can exist in the same space because they're a different thing, and that what will eventually kill LOTRO is just a natural aging process of users moving away from LOTRO as it continues to age. I love to dunk on corporate talking heads as much as the next guy, but I think there's a context to the quote that's being missed with this take. The quote being: ""First of all, I have a lot of respect for them to keep it going that long," said Hartmann. "They have, not a huge, but a very dedicated fanbase. But looking just at the technology, where we're at now, and where we will be in a couple of years, it's just worlds apart. "It's a little exaggeration if I say it's going to be like black and white movies to color, but that's the approach I want to take. It's just a completely different world. "Even the most likely scenario is for people just to move over, because the other one is an old game. It's not a bad game, but the industry moves on at some point, and it's a long time from their release to ours." Source: www.vg247.com/lord-of-the-rings-online-isnt-going-anywhere-even-with-amazons-lotr-game-announcement

[@leifroarmoldskred6370]

"The most likely scenario is for theatrical troupes just to move over, because Shakespear is an old playwright. He's not a bad playwright, but world of theatre moves on at some point, and it's a long time from his releases to ours."

[@celotharobar]

@@leifroarmoldskred6370 The thing is, that's not what's being said in context. As a LOTRO player, this statement was actually a :*good* thing. They're saying they're not going to do what SWTOR did to SWG (which SOE really did to themselves but that's another story entirely), and that's *good*.

[@JJJBunney001]

​@Leif Roar Moldskred that's not the same thing and you know it, a play from 2000 years ago is performed the same as it is today. I love LOTRO but he's right, it's very outdated

[@leifroarmoldskred6370]

@@JJJBunney001 A play from 2000 years ago is not really performed the same way today as it was 2000 years ago (except as a form of, in every sense of the word, reenactment,) but that's not really the point. The point is that plays are not _written_ the same way today as they were previously. The language is different, the idioms are different, the audience's knowledge of affairs and familiarity with tropes are different, the constraints of theatrical productions are different. And yet, all of that is a matter of form, and when we come right down to it, form never matters as much as _content_ do.

[@OWnIshiiTrolling]

Thank you for posting the quotes that are already in the video.... The Amazon guy is saying that people will move from LotRO to their awful game because their game is newer. Which is a ridiculous statement.

[@EBikeBuilder_]

Reminds me of wyatt “you have phones don’t you???” Cheng