Civic Type R v Elantra N DCT | Debate Over?

[@FreshYoungDude]

The choice is obvious. FL5 will pull more men at cars & coffee meets.

[@forgottenautos8461]

*meats

[@mharro88]

@@FreshYoungDude gross , it's the en for me then

[@Sie84yv]

If paying $10-20k more with dealer markups for attention is your thing, good for you. I'll use my money for brakes and tires to keep getting better on track, where I can pass nearly all TRs and M2s at my local track on a completely stock VN that is still under warranty and never had any powertrain issues, as most TRs I see on track do... 😃

[@JacesOwnWorld]

And the kind of men it pulls too 😬. Beta male Honda fanboys

[@unexplainedwearenotalone3537]

Honda have brembo break so it is not the same and like we see track nurbgring i30n beat Honda and Honda cheat that why is banned from track nurbgring and we still see Elantra N much faster vs Honda just need good break fix and eat Honda smoke they nothing proof still Elantra N very fast much better and smooth vs Honda because inside Honda only noise plastic and stiff suspension noise every hit road tires and Elantra N have best engine sound real sport car lest talk true is no bad Honda but we know Hyundai is far future Korean always far best like or nah is fact true Honda can't beat Korean if we compare EV or who made better things is Hyundai company much big they have everything check history of kia Hyundai is shocking they top of tops no need proof to Honda or any ignorance of USA be.lie.ve to Honda

[@albonfilms]

As a surgeon and a lawmaker, I have to say: there were few of life's pleasures greater than picking the locks at Mark's 14,000 sqft mansion, army crawling my way to the master bedroom, and feeling the sweet sweet release atop the 5-way heated seat bidet with built in prostate massage. Now I just sit in my car across the street and soil myself. Damn you, SimpliSafe for your unrivaled protection. I'll never get into Mark's home again.

[@Shadowboost]

What exactly are you releasing during this prostate massage?

[@Tdfries]

As a SimpliSafe employee, it really was a pleasure watching you do this while you were being arrested.

[@NukePooch1]

Simplisafe doesn't yet have Tuxmat sensors, so perhaps you just need to soil yourself in one of Mark's cars instead?

[@Engineersoldinterstingstuff]

You may have to try dating him to get in.

[@Javiwho1]

😂😂😂​@@Engineersoldinterstingstuff

[@mokracing]

as an owner of Veloster N, the organizer for the N Cup, and a dedicated N parts shop owner, this review is pretty much spot on. Being slightly down on power and traction vs CTR and also the differences between DCT and manual on the track, everything is accurate as always with the videos from Savageese.

[@jfieqj]

Fellow Veloster N owner. Hyundai clearly puts the emphasis on value and fun rather than being the absolute fastest. You can always get something faster on a track for more money, but you really can't get something more fun for the money than the N cars. To me that's what matters; even if I take my N to the track sometime, that's going to be 0.01% of my driving.

[@shawn4063]

Any parts for the sonata n line?

[@aaronschen9896]

CTR pros: it's a much better car. EN pros: you can reasonably buy one. Heroic simply safe vid.

[@ThinkfreeorDie]

I wouldn't say "much" better. It's like 15% better.

[@30hours51]

@@ThinkfreeorDiejust interior and quality, driving feel alone is much better lol.

[@VaunShiz]

​@@ThinkfreeorDieYou say that now , wonder how nice the N will be in 7 years when it's falling apart

[@the8thvictim]

This video is of an AI quality, safe to the bone.

[@ayushmalpeddi2793]

​@@ThinkfreeorDieit's literally .1 second quicker around Savagegeese old track test vs the type R on the same tires. and then you gotta factor in how cheap the type R interior is and how it doesn't include features like heated seats, sunroof, etc

[@TimClark09]

This was not really a fair comparison. You need to turn off the A/C in the elantra to truly harness its power. I am looking forward to the next comparison video.

[@justinhale2160]

😂😂😂😂

[@vjd222]

This is too accurate after reading the comments in one of the FB groups 😂 😂

[@kobi2002]

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[@Jesse-x4o]

Well there's more videos on this the the Integra Type S beating the DCT. I give the most excuses award to you Hyundai drives. (Octane learn, tires, AC on off, Manual vs DCT) Like an infomercial but wait there's more...

[@kobi2002]

@@Jesse-x4o lmao it’s like every video.😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@ChadG_]

As an EN owner, i would mostly certainly buy a TypeR over the EN if they were the same price.

[@PaulCataldi-e5c]

Same. I recently purchased a 24 6 speed EN. I obviously cross shopped the two cars, but being a budget/bang for buck type guy, I chose the EN. With that said, I must also include that the CTR was marked up to... wait for it... SIXTY THOUSAND DOLLARS. No thanks. They're both wonderful, practical sports cars that excel in different areas. The real winner is the enthusiasts who need car seats! :)

[@ChadG_]

@@PaulCataldi-e5c your car seat comment is too real for me right now. I have my first child on the way and I'm so thankful car seats spaciously fit in the back of the EN.

[@PaulCataldi-e5c]

@@ChadG_ Same and congrats!

[@kevinledesma2]

As a Third En owner I agree I honestly only discovered the EN cause I couldn’t afford the Type R

[@dnice362]

But not the same price

[@plaid_cloud]

Theres been so much CTR content, I have Type R burned in on my screen. And this is a work monitor. They're gonna be PISSED.

[@ramadjones]

Finally, another commenter that loves Crash Team Racing as much as I do! You gotta resist the urge to play it at work, though.

[@AngelValdovinos]

Burn in is not common try again

[@chriscallaghan4091]

You must not know what OLED is...

[@campbell92]

​@@chriscallaghan4091 ya man because workplaces commonly use $1500 OLED gaming monitors...

[@dannoyes4493]

I actually look forward to viewing SavageGeese commericals. Fun Video. Well Done.

[@FC3_RIPPER]

Commercials? Interesting way to put it lol.

[@web]

@@FC3_RIPPER4:15 is straight educational video on how to ergonomically hold steering wheel for dominance driving

[@infradragon]

if only they werent using AI voices

[@peterjordansonthe2nd731]

Mark's a funny feller. Definitely the most humorous KZbin car channel by far

[@danlee3939]

Thank you for doing this, guys! I've been entering SCCA Time Trials in an Elantra N DCT (and previously a Veloster N DCT), competing with my Type R owner friends in the Sport 3 class. On track it's very much a driver's race, with each platform having its pros and cons. The FL5/FK8 definitely has a higher performance ceiling, but it costs more to get there, especially factoring in class legal mods. Really appreciate the attention to detail with regards to the utterly stupid Octane Learning process, too.

[@shamalabadingdong]

Higher performance ceiling on the fl5 mainly comes down to the tire it can fit. Especially when class rules set max tire sizes based on the OEM size. Yes, if you're doing a 500hp build with 11 inch wheels with aero the fl5 is a better setup for that because the EN maxes out at 265 on 9.5 (type r stock wheel width). However, most enthusiasts are coming no where close to that. In terms of just bolts on, brake pads, and wheels the EN has been kicking the type R's ass at gridlife. Both cars actually make similar power once similarly tuned, and once the fl5 loses the huge power/tire advantage ive noticed anecdotally that the advantage of having an e-lsd is huge. Aka, if you throw 4k of parts at both, I've seen the EN come out ahead more often than not. Gridlife is being dominated by EN's with half the mods of these fl5's

[@350z33hr]

Nice fairy-tales

[@sharkscanplay2890]

​@shamalabadingdong Also in general modability. The chassis support required for the EN to compete really impede on the daily usability in terms of doing everything. The inability the use folded down seats for more trunk space is a killer. Now imagine you did the same thing to the civic and made it just as "impractical". Even though they are both daily drivers, the civic definitely has more room to grow into a track weapon than the elantra unfortunately. Out of the box though it's a close race

[@shamalabadingdong]

@@sharkscanplay2890 The bar takes 30 seconds to remove. I keep a 10mm socket in my glovebox, it's not a real issue. This argument is backwards imo. The civic comes with back breaking suspension, everyone seems to gloss over that but it's making serious compromises as a daily driver for these stock lap times. In reality, literally everyone will go for the ITS suspension module because the type r's suspension is not realistic. I could make the same argument, and I'd argue ride quality is a way bigger deal than a bar that takes 30 seconds to remove. The EN suspension is way better suited for daily driving and still gets stiff enough to compete on track. Stiffer would be faster, but the EN does fine while preserving driveability.

[@sharkscanplay2890]

@@shamalabadingdong I own the fk8 and I test drove the fl5. Outside of R+ mode the suspension isn't an issue. Honestly the literally only daily issue with the civic I've had is how fat them wheels are. Makes buying new rubbers super expensive. However when I'm having fun they are appreciated. You still need to consider the type R has the practicality out of the box and even with removing that beam the type R has far more trunk space. Also as stated that bar adds a whole lot to the chassis tuning so when you do take it out you lose a bit of performance. Again my argument was that the R has more room to grow and makes for a better daily out of the box which it does. I should add suspension is a preference. If you haven't drove one then don't complain about it for sure but you must be on some REALLY bad roads if comfort wasn't enough dampening

[@jasonwolfe1305]

As an EN owner, I feel like this video is completely fair and really sums up my feelings about the CTR vs EN debate. If I wanted a track weapon, I would have bought a CTR (and I agree 100% that it is marginally better than the EN in most ways). But the EN has an old school fun aspect that is incredibly satisfying in a daily driver, and that's what my car is. My EN manages to make a trip to Trader Joe's entertaining and I love it for that. Also, considering the difference in sticker price and the dealer markups, for me there's no question the EN was the better choice. I bought it, paid it off in a few months and I can just enjoy it for what it is.

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

If I wanted a track weapon I'd have bought an SS 1LE lol

[@dre32pitt]

@@MeltingRubberZ28 go through pads like a house full of women

[@davec3568]

@@MeltingRubberZ28 Exactly. That's the big issue with the CTR, it's overpriced. Nice car, but you have be a real Honda fan to accept the cost. SS 1LE is the best car I've ever owned and you can get one nearly new for less than a CTR.

[@mediocreman2]

English has Choose The Right. I chose both.

[@ayushmalpeddi2793]

Driving a Type R feels like a Nissan versa in normal driving and commuting. Zero fun sounds or anything

[@xxczerxx]

I feel like the Type R is basically the only "new" car that I like the look of, and will age gracefully. Very well proportioned machine.

[@panadatm]

The FL5 will definitely age better and be more desirable than the fk8. The brands that don't fall for design trends and massive lightbars will be rewarded when those designs start looking dated in 2 years.

[@Sie84yv]

The insane price difference for slight better performance is not justified to me. The only consolation I'll admit TR owners will get is batter resale values, if you're willing to stomach the upront $10k difference plus dealer mark-ups

[@JoshuaKoerner]

The new 911 GTS is pretty sick too

[@ADUSN]

It's certainly better than the previous gen, unfortunately imo the new type R is too safe. Just looks like a regular Civic to me

[@povertyspec9651]

Nissan Z's are better looking by far

[@QLPJosh]

Sorry I keep showing up at your houses and try to ruin your marriages, the Chevy Trax video really just changed my life

[@robl7532]

Oh shit this saved my day.

[@vmaxauto]

As an Elantra N owner I would agree with all the points in this video. One thing I was surprised wasn’t brought up at all is the CTRs oil temp issues. Been to lots of track days with CTRs present, I’ve spoke with their owners complaining about hitting 145c+ oil temps by the third lap and having to dial it back or come back to the paddock. While I’m out on track driving the EN at 10/10ths for 25-30 minutes at a time and I don’t crack 126c oil temp and experience no brake issues. All while putting down the same track times as CTR guys. So with all things being equal I’d definitely choose the Type R, however the oil temp on the CTR are definitely a deal breaker for me as a track rat. Sure you can install some better oil cooling on the Civic to fix that issue, however for how much more expensive it is I don’t think that’s really excusable. Not hating on the CTR at all, actually really love that car I’m just surprised that a large issue like the oil temps seems to always be omitted on reviews.

[@elyssesmagcaling]

So glad you brought this up. This is 100% accurate.

[@Duckymomo643]

Thinking on getting a Elantra N… how is it in the snow? I’ll probably replace the tires for all season ones but I’d like to ask an owner how they’ve experienced it… how long have you owned it and what are problems if any you’ve experienced?

[@vmaxauto]

@ it’s very good in the snow, custom mode, all setting on soft while putting the diff in the most aggressive setting is chefs kiss. I’ve had mine since spring of 2023. Zero issues aside from the very common exhaust valve rattle, I’ve upgraded the spring and haven’t had the issue since. Got a letter in the mail recently for the HPFP recall, don’t think my car is actually affected so I’ll get it done eventually

[@rambow70]

I'm not a huge Honda fan but man did Honda make a beautiful car!

[@senseicorey9979]

The civic and accord look really good right now

[@CODE-BROWN]

@@senseicorey9979 I feel like the current accord is too muted but they did the Civic just right. Honda's weird cycles of boy racer and back to subtle over the years was overstated on a few models. CRV was also a nice upgrade in looks. Last gen Accord was amazing imo but the Civic was overdone.

[@ItzamarieRodriguez]

@@senseicorey9979Accord is so ass rn, and they stopped making 2.0T and V6. So its just an ugly heavy slow car with a 1.5T 😐

[@velocityvibezzz]

Who care which wins. Buy what you love, love what you drive. In real world these 10/10ths doesn't matter. If you care about other's opinion all the time, you won't be happy. I dare you take either of these cars to AutoX or track day and come home not smiling. Both these cars are great and have their own priorities imo. Elantra N = Fun over Precision and Type R = Precision over Fun

[@xdas32]

The only true winners are consumers, we start to have more and more options compared to 10 years ago.

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

I agree with you, plus potholes in the US can be so bad both cars could probably use off road tires to avoid constant flats at speed!😂jk

[@beepboopboopbopbeep]

Chasing each other on track while giving your notes was fun and really worked here, great comparison!!

[@dielaughing73]

I only wish they swapped cars so we could get a more complete comparison

[@SuperNova23333]

Now that I use SimpliSafe, my wife loves me and my kids want to be around me. Thank you SimpliSafe!

[@acerimmer8338]

How does your wife's boyfriend feel about it?

[@aono335]

@@acerimmer8338I approve of Simplisafe. Miss his wife tho:/

[@good-tn9sr]

wife’s boyfriend is not happy…

[@Quickfleet]

So happy to hear you guy talk about the octane learning. Biggest flaw with the Elantra N, I know it annoyed the piss out of me!

[@RobertOfStAlbans_]

Same

[@thejoyofloving444]

Hi, a non brand loyalist here, I know no one cares but here’s a take Competition breeds innovation. innovation can include effective and sensible ways of reducing cost, it can encourage engineers and these car manufacturers to continue to build the cars that we all care about… hey with the flaws of electric finally showing more and more we (hopefully) get another renaissance of car technology. Shit, GR Corolla is now giving Subaru a reason to improve themselves, the type r may be better now but I’m sure some office in Namyang somewhere Hyundai is already drafting up ways where they could be better, these markups gotta go down somehow right? Competition in the car market can do that too Give it time I’m sure something cool is gonna happen, we’re seeing glimpses of it right now

[@johnss2k434]

After owning 3 type R’s I think it is one of the most engaging cars you can buy. However I wouldn’t recommend paying anything over msrp for one.

[@Staas1]

The price difference between these two is the same as the Supra 2.0 vs the BRZ/GR86. I'd like to see that comparison.

[@drewstermalloy]

I was cross shopping both of these cars early 2024 and ended up with an FL5. For me both cars would have done the job but the stupid brace in the back on the Elantra, plus not having a split rear seat was the deciding factor. Having a carseat in the back made the trunk space almost unusable for me. Also, every EN I looked at had really bad panel gaps or misalignments. I still love hearing one drive by like I'm at a shooting range but my FL5 still makes me happy every single day.

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

Heh, the N brace is a bit too much considering its a street car, but I have to joke that yanking the entire back seat out of a production Toyota seems over the top too😂jk

[@drewstermalloy]

@@IndyAvocadoKid yeah, a 4 door car with no rear seats makes even less sense

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

@@drewstermalloy the bracing is even more radical than the N, almost looks like they didn't finish making the car in the factory😏😄jk I know it’s meant to be a pure track car👍😏

[@chiemekaa]

Especially when all other non-N Elantras (including the N-Line) have split rear seats!

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

@@chiemekaa yeah, no split seat does seem odd, could have just used a production seat instead, maybe should just go full retro with a vinyl rear bench seat like in the 60s😂

[@qx4n9e1xp]

I'm not buying either of these cars unless they appear in Fast & Furious 12: The Federal Reserve Raid

[@dfsdh432v9]

Fast & Furious 13: revenge of KIABOIS

[@MrSamPhoenix]

L😂L

[@jameswillard1]

I’ve owned both manual Elantra N and an FL5 CTR. The Hyundai is fun in a scrappy kind of way but it honestly feels like a $15k cheaper car atleast. I’m not even referring to the hard plastics on dash and door panels…..I’m talking about the way bumps/impact harshness comes through the car. The CTR just feels like it started off as a high quality car and then was refined to a degree the Elantra N could only dream of. I also found the handling and body control much better on CTR

[@vjd222]

Owned both too and couldn't agree more

[@jasonscotta7129]

Handling and body control is subjective. I prefer the EN in that aspect, I could manipulate the EN in ways to work for me rather the FL5 just plants itself regardless of what you do. Same debates that were had when I owned an AP1. AP1 vs AP2, AP1 more willing to rotate, AP2 more planted.

[@usergrade7812]

And Hyundai's paint is garbage. Can't comment on the CTR, but my VN had tons of rock chips after a year and my GRC has none over the same time period and amount of driving.

[@4drturbo85]

All new cars have crap paint for the most part. Thanks to the liberal left wing environmental nut jobs ​@@usergrade7812

[@Symphoniics]

The 2024 EN suspension was greatly improved to absorb impacts better than the 22/23 EN. Also, impacts aside, I find myself bouncing up and down a lot more in the CTR. It seems stiffer and more jarring to me over smaller inconsistencies in the road

[@x_Skeleton_x]

As a happy owner of an FL5. I approve of this video (and all of Savagegeese’s kino advertisements).

[@shatty56]

Brokering double digit business deals is how I financed my wifes boyfriend's Chevy trax. The pleather seats offer great value in summer as my swamp crack helps wash off dunkaroo residue and jizzum. Without SavageGeese corporate engagements, I would still be living be living in my step dads foyer. Forever grateful and forever educated. Give a man a goose and he eats for a day, teach a man to savage geese and their wife's boyfriend agrees to an alternating weekend date night roster.

[@piskooooo]

I think everyone knew this except a few very loud weirdos. I have an N and every other N owner I know knows the CTR is the technically better car, but no one cared enough to spend an extra $10,000 or more to buy a slightly better car. I feel like this is a console war situation where the people fighting don't even own the cars they're fighting about. It becomes a lot more obvious when track stuff is brought up. You see way more N cars on track than CTR. You also see way more CTR with issues on track than N cars. I really don't care if a CTR is half a second faster if it's grinding 2nd gear and overheating after two laps.

[@Marbind]

Is like everything out there. If you want the best you have to pay. The EN has the mininum required to be competitive. If Hyundai decides to close the performance gap the price difference will considerably go down.

[@gionieves2646]

​@@Marbindyou're mistaken. This EN is priced closer the Si and GTI....but running with Golf Rs and Type Rs. Being that you don't own one you have no idea how robust the N vehicles actually are. VN, KN and EN vehicles are holding up much better than it's competitors in track days, by not overheating and having consistent power and brakes throughout the races. The TCR champion and leader is an Elantra N. Do some research before making a comment.

[@Sie84yv]

I love passing faster cars on track like Mustangs, M2s, M3s, and my favorite, TRs! Yes those are faster, but I enjoy showing rich boys how much they've over spent on their toy and not enough on getting actual driving skills... and my VN is completely stock, never had any major issues, and still under warranty! 😃

[@enmass90]

It’s not a console war situation. It’s mostly just EN owners with a victim complex crying in every video about how the reviewers are unfair because they didn’t test the car in the most ideal setting possible.

[@Marbind]

@@gionieves2646 TCR is no where close to the stock build. Argument invalid. Forums and social groups related to the CTR is filled with people having fun with them at the track despite all the heating claims.

[@gappedtoto1663]

Double digit business deals.

[@dielaughing73]

He's not messing around

[@craig.encinitas]

Hey, $20 is $20! 💵

[@kev7383]

😂

[@donwarner6925]

60 percent of the time…

[@peterroberts4415]

Glad I wasn't the only person who noticed that

[@Beezy_Builds]

Love my Elantra N, but man that type R is something else

[@KidNato]

These cars only get cross shopped on the internet. If you ask CTR owners if they considered the Elantra you will get a blank stare. Ask Elantra owners if they considered the CTR and they will say they can't afford it.

[@papa_pt]

lol plenty can afford it. The big price difference ain't worth it to them

[@mharro88]

@@papa_pt exactly right , it used to be worth it. Not anymore. The type r is boring day to day compared to the N, fantastic on track but sounds like shit

[@klasseact6663]

Don't be a dickhead! For some yes but not all🙄

[@KidNato]

@@papa_pt I am certain all the Hyundai owners on the internet are actually just savvy millionaires, but reality says otherwise

[@PQ28120]

Cant afford or don't want to spend. This weird ass idea online that you know everything about someone's finances by the emblem on their car is dumb as hell.

[@Vicstruction]

Not sure how this is even a comparison. I'm a huge Honda fan and I'll be the first to say that the Type R is overpriced. Should be $40k not $50k+ after dealer markups

[@bigtoonss]

You can find msrp on the FL5 all over the place now. Its a car that sits in the golf r/ GR corolla price range being the competitor. Better interior than all of them and better performing car with way more support and reliability.

[@gionieves2646]

​@@bigtoonssplease show me a link of a Type R at MSRP...I dare you

[@dontyouworryaboutit_]

I just got a slightly used 2023 for 39k, just gotta find one and play hardball, it’s a buyers market now

[@BitcoinTo150K]

@@bigtoonss you're a LIAR STOP SPREADING MISINFORMATION

[@BitcoinTo150K]

@@trdpro2grfks Name the dealership names at MSRP you can't do it lol

[@mx5moon]

FL5 owner myself. I would agree the FL5 is more refined and cohesive. Period. As far as track work and the FL5 keeping on the bumper of the Elantra... you can't ignore the wider rubber of the FL5 .Tires are the EASIEST track mod if you just want quicker lap times...

[@TassieLorenzo]

The factory widebody on the Megane RS and Civic Type R still fits wider tyres when going beyond stock sizes and regulations though. Whereas Elantra and Golf GTI/R are done on the cheap without bespoke fenders and often need those little plastic trims for compliance even with narrower stock tyres!

[@MrWuggles]

If you're after the best faster, better driving car, and you can drive stick, the only reason to buy the Elantra N is because you can't afford the FL5 CTR

[@popsandbangs8858]

No because it just have it's highs

[@Localtraveler2376]

Or you have things you rather spend your money on. Lame 12 year old comment.

[@dfsfgd9699]

and you get FL5 CTR because you can't get m2 comp lol

[@popsandbangs8858]

@@dfsfgd9699 who the fuck besides badgesnobs buy an overpriced fwd car . If i have that money i wait and get more to have that m2

[@Localtraveler2376]

@@dfsfgd9699 and you get the m2 because you can’t get the McLaren. 😂 it’s just different people want to spend differently.

[@wbrouilette]

The musical choices and transitions during the first 30 seconds are outstanding! 👏

[@riseagainst816]

I have a 6mt EN and I know the type R is a better car. Idk why the dct EN owners care so much. The first comparison seemed fine to me lol

[@bk138gt6]

They're embarrassed they can't drive stick

[@TheCromesd]

​@@bk138gt6What a weird take LOL the DCT is just much faster so its the one that makes sense to test

[@flickz3204]

I don't understand why these cars are even being compared. No one in their right mind should be comparing cars which have a 10,000 dollar plus price difference. I think the EN should be more expensive for what it is. and the civic is well priced for what it does.

[@goodj0b]

@@flickz3204 Not much other FWD performance cars out there.

[@flickz3204]

@@goodj0b still a pointless comparison. Can’t expect something cheaper to be better especially when the difference is thousands.

[@marcuslee2026]

Love this video. I think majority of us EN owners understand that the Type R just takes it up to another notch. Ego aside, it’s just a lot of money to fork up for not that much in upgrades. If money wasn’t a factor, yeah why not, but also why not a CT4-V black wing? An M3? You can just continue to inch up your budget and hopefully it’s not too big of a sacrifice elsewhere in life. Anyways, I’m glad we still have fantastic options in this world and I’m glad I can be a part of it. Great video, gentlemen!

[@JesusMartinez-wx5jy]

As a driver of a Veloster N DCT, this video is pretty accurate. Less horsepower and less grip but the performance is pretty close, especially for the price. It’s crazy how the Elantra N is closer in price to stuff like the GTI and Si but it’s always compared to the Type R

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

This is a good point, the price difference can be so great that modding an N to the same price would probably result in near matching track results👍😏😊

[@ThinkfreeorDie]

How good is this channel? I watch the ads and they are just as enjoyable as the video!

[@extraterrestrial6614]

Ive had my FL5 for a year and i still look at it in aww. Its one of the most beautiful cars out at any price point. Gorgeous car!

[@RobertOfStAlbans_]

Very Handsome car.

[@jonasl1178]

I can't believe you guys did this test without Jack performing a coffee enema for the 10 pounds of weight savings. Completely disappointing and shows Mark's Honda bias.

[@AKmazing]

Underrated comment

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

I guess every bit of weight saving helps, someone has probably taken the air out of his spare tire to save some weight😏😂jk

[@pv4083]

For me, the value is that you pay 10k less with the Elantra N and do not have to deal with overheating issues on track. I get the history of the type r but I can't overlook the overheating issues. Thanks for the video. I enjoyed it.

[@bigtoonss]

Stop expecting to take a stock vehicle straight from factory onto a track and then pretend its a track car. You still need to do things to it if you want it to perform well. Not even a gt3 will have a lack issues after repeatedly tracking it.

[@BitcoinTo150K]

​@@bigtoonss why does Hyundai do it better? You can't fix the Type R overheating BTW no amount money can

[@sebastianhasbun3846]

@@bigtoonsswell the fact that Hyundai does it speaks volumes towards their engineering team’s dedication to making a great fun performance car out of the box

[@thurules]

what overheating issue you referring to on Civic typeR?

[@BitcoinTo150K]

@@thurules if you hot lap the Type R 3 laps it's done will literally quit working. No amount of cooling mods will ever fix this issue I know many people who sell it within months tracking

[@S58b58]

I have owned and tracked an fk8 and Elantra n. The fk8 overheated in 3-4 laps and the Elantra didn’t. I have also owned a Camaro SS 1le and zl1 1le and both didn’t over heat. Just destroyed consumables. Now I own a 2025 m2 automatic and 2022 m240 xdrive. We will see how they fair on track. All cars were stock with the exception of brake fluid. Only cars that overheated on track that I have owned were the fk8 type r and c7 z51 corvette. The c7 didn’t have the updated heat exchanger of the newer models. 15 min sessions in winter time in Arizona 60-80 degrees temps 91 octane.

[@scrapin240]

Thankfully they tested the FL5 and not the FK8 ;)

[@S58b58]

@@scrapin240 right because they are totally different engines. Check the forums fl5 has same problem. It also has the same first to second shift grind when rushed. You should own some cars and track them. Then you can ;-) me.

[@scrapin240]

@@S58b58 I've run mine with a tune on track in 95F ambient and no issues. FL5 has many cooling upgrades over the FK8. Also, FL5 gearbox doesn't have 2nd gear grind issues. Time to update your preconceived notions. Only FL5 that ever overheat are ones that have intercoolers blocking the airflow path.

[@S58b58]

@@scrapin240 95 degrees tuned and on a road course driving fast and and you don’t have to do cool down laps after 3-4 hard laps. Ok lol. Is your 0-60 also under 4 seconds?

[@scrapin240]

@@S58b58 with 200TW tires at time attack pace, all you get is 3-4 laps before the rubber slows down, so it works perfectly fine. EN that I had also needed a cool down lap, so it's the same scenario

[@MrScoobieman]

I’m extremely happy with the purchase of my integra type S

[@mholmes9262]

You can't argue with the video, it seemed like the CTR was barely breaking a sweat at the EN's limit on the track, with so much more to give. The numbers don't tell the whole story. But that said, the EN is a fantastic little car for the money. My 24 yr old daughter bought one, a '22 8DCT a couple years ago and I've spent a considerable amount of time in it, as a passenger and driver. It has so much character. The engine sounds much better than the CTR, IMO. But there is no denying the CTR has more presence and is the better car. It did look like you were bouncing around an awful lot in it, though...that would get old. The EN has a pretty decent ride, which probably hurts it on the track a little. I guess the argument has finally been settled haha.

[@CTF33]

Yes the argument has been settled they said the EN is the more fun car to drive, just depends on your priorities I guess.

[@ShoobiKenoobi]

The only channel where I NEVER skip the ads!!!😂

[@gtracer7009]

I absolutely love what you did with the track portion in this video! The commentary while actually racing each other that close gives off vibes of old Best Motoring videos, where they race stock cars on Tsukuba Circuit. PLEASE do this more often! I hope this becomes a regular segment, just like mechanical impressions. It will be especially hilarious to see you race shitboxes like Buick Encore GX vs Chevy Trax RS in the same manner!

[@NPazdernik]

We Hyundai owners know that at the end of the day, the CTR is a better car. Personally I really enjoy the fact it gets as close to the CTR as it does. I bought the EN because of its unique-ness, along with the inherent drama of the cluster and looks and sounds. The track times are nice, but the everyday drama is what sold me. It livens up my daily commute. PS Jack, I wouldn't call a 100ish pound weight difference huge 😂 Great video as always.

[@popsandbangs8858]

But it doesn't worth the extra money . That is it .

[@sharmilanraj]

@@popsandbangs8858 It is because the extra money goes towards reliability.

[@a124as]

@@sharmilanraj The fl5 is also way more rare and will retain value much better than any Hyundai.

[@mharro88]

​@@sharmilanraj new Hyundai's are as reliable as camrys now

[@Josh-cw8by]

Every 10 pounds is 1 horsepower lost. Around the track that's a big difference.

[@usergrade7812]

A lot of N owners are weirdly defensive of the cars. I had a DCT Veloster N - it was a great car for what it was. Amazing transmission for the price point. I traded it on a Circuit GR Corolla which is better in every way with the exception of the auto dimming headlights.

[@avis1978]

The veloster N is not the elantra N. Enjoy your GR 👍.

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

FWIW, defensive behavior is actually just a matter of fanboys being too brand loyal, because every car brand has made cars that are crappy and others that are great or at least good. More reasonable car guys can switch from brand to brand based on individual car designs, not just branding👍🤔😏😊

[@usergrade7812]

@@IndyAvocadoKid True - I'm no loyalist. I've had Mazda, Chevy, Fiat, Hyundai, Honda, Subaru, Mazda, Nissan, VW and Toyotas. Each have their pluses and minuses.

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

@@usergrade7812 yeah, I’m like you, I buy individual car models not brands, like my first car, the VW Fox station wagon, a cheap fun car that was like the ‘Grandpa Simpson’ of modern hot hatchbacks …. “I was young once and drove up a mountain to go to school, then drove up another mountain to go home”👍😏😂

[@Tsand4]

Honda/Acura fanboys are the worst of the worst and Mark is one of the head honcho Honda fanboys.

[@oraclemiata845]

KONAN is legend….but man the Type-R will always be the one if I could afford it. 😂

[@alexsanchez806]

God I love this channel. Aside from being insanely informative (helped me decide on getting my 24 Civic Si which I am absolutely in love with) it is also so entertaining. Keep up the good work, guys

[@blackcow8114]

The Civic Type R is like the Bugatti of FWD cars. Perfect in every single way, but expensive as heck. I wish Honda made something like a Fit Type R as a more "affordable" alternative.

[@douglaskrueger357]

that would be cool!

[@booyakashaWagwan]

I like how you incorporated the commercial into the video. You put some effort into it and made it funny. Hope they paid you well, cause it was good.

[@Tracertme]

I would take the FL5 every time… even just for looks.. K20 series is a legendary engine..

[@jmmch3358]

Coming from other sport cars that I owned, most of them V8's, I test drove two EN one with the DCT and the other 6MT, both were great fun sport cars, the DCT probably was faster but I enjoyed more doing the shifting of my own in the MT even if it does not have the red power button.

[@jcgriffin4572]

It kills me how all the reviewers say that a type R is 10,000 more. In real world pricing it's a lot closer to 20k more. A 2022 type R is about 48K and a used EN can be had for about 30k. This is a big difference.These are 2 different price categories.

[@CODE-BROWN]

Used FK8's are $31k in my area, which makes your used EN comparison irrelevant. New to New, the price difference is obvious. Though I'd put my money on Honda if you planned on keeping the CTR for more than 5 years.

[@aaron3378]

@@CODE-BROWN31k with 80miles no thanks

[@etirnty3837]

No such thing as a 2022 type r, also dependent on area. But they are on the used market now closer to low 40s for fl5. None of these deters it from just being the better car.

[@Aki_Lesbrinco]

They go by MSRP, because these people have lives and they can't just waste their time looking for how much each dealer in the United States is selling their Type Rs for.

[@ZACH_95_]

@@CODE-BROWNyeah 30k with a shit ton of miles and driven hard. I’m good. Pass. 🤢🤮

[@ZZZZ-mkv]

I freaking love your sponsor breaks. You should open up an ad agency.

[@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc]

EN gets it right on price and performance. The CTR is simply too expensive for its class. It’s bumping up against BMWs which dog walk the Type R at its price.

[@alexiep2422]

What BMW are you looking at? Because the only ones worth buying are pushing $60K out the door with taxes.

[@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc]

@@alexiep2422 m240i’s are a little over $50k

[@williambellisIII]

@@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc Can you even get them in a manual? And what about four doors? I stopped following BMW when they became less about engaged driving.

[@pilotvanquish3886]

@@ConfusedDesertCobra-kw9fc There is nothing dynamic about the current gen m240i I'm sorry. Its basically a heavy 2 door GT car now.

[@mogulme6190]

@@pilotvanquish3886yeah that’s cap

[@enduser8410]

After seeing a viral video of the Elantra N interior creaking like crazy, I would go for the Type R or Si in a heartbeat. The dash and center handle looked so loosely fit and cheap in that car.

[@chrisgizmunt927]

The one “flaw” keeping the CTR out of my own garage is the fact that it only seats two in the second row. I have three kids and already own a car with limited passenger capacity (i.e. two seater). While the EN isn’t a looker, it’s not nearly as repulsive as the last-gen CTR.

[@Black2KGSR]

Same reason I never got one or an Integra Type-S.

[@1I1IIII1I1]

@@chrisgizmunt927 You can swap the seat out pretty easily

[@dBsdecibels]

The only in-video ads I actually want to watch! These are always hilarious! ...sorry about the bidet...I won't do that again...

[@maxlelievre]

Anyone else notice the 287F engine oil on the Type-R lol. Pretty crazy.

[@MeltingRubberZ28]

I did not but if true, that's dangerous territory

[@maxlelievre]

@@MeltingRubberZ28 kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZKch6xmf5iEjLc at 16:22

[@savagegeese]

PSA, dont run eco oils if tracking.

[@ryangodshalk9800]

@@savagegeese what oil are you using? Also, brake fluid and pads? Thanks for another great vid.

[@savagegeese]

@@ryangodshalk9800 For track counterspace garage C2 pads, endless brake fluid and redline 10w40 (which is more like a 50w compared to other brands.)

[@doublehh666]

The return of the sensational homemade ads. Fantastic ! Also the comp video as usual done well.

[@Rizl-876]

Long live the manuals.

[@cygor4520]

Loved seeing you both on track at the same time. Would love to see more of that.

[@Shawnjohnsonallthewa]

As an Elantra n owner, I agree the type r is a better car overall, but the magic of the EN is the value, and that’s what we all argue, u can often find a new EN 1k under msrp, while it’s extremely difficult to find a type r anything less than 5-10k OVER msrp, the 10k base price difference is already a BIG difference, but when u ad another 5-10k on top of that it becomes a no brainer imo

[@vjd222]

Yeah resale on the EN really sucks in comparison. You eat the difference in value in 2 years with its depreciation

[@Shawnjohnsonallthewa]

@@vjd222 my first EN was a 2022 dct with 21k miles, msrp was 35900 and I traded for 29,400 I know the civic has better resale but 20k more with markup is not enough to make up that difference

[@vjd222]

@@Shawnjohnsonallthewa barely anybody is paying markups on them these days. Especially 20k lol. I paid MSRP for mine the first day I started looking

[@Shawnjohnsonallthewa]

@@vjd222 nobody said 20k, I said it’s a 20k difference in price between the EN and the type R if the type t is marked up 10k over sticker like they generally are, and yes, markups are still very real, the lowest markup within a 500 mile radius of me I found this year was 4k, and the worst was 10, and I’ve seen probably 8-10 that had a 10k markup

[@vjd222]

@Shawnjohnsonallthewa even at 4k you're still out way less in the end than the EN lol. It's only a good value the first day you buy it. When I traded my 22 EN at the beginning of this year, with 45k miles, the KBB was 21-24 🥴

[@db1kiknt]

This simplisafe commercial is the best thing I have ever seen! 👍🏼's all around!

[@van_der_lindeDA]

The issue is Hyundai owners and not all, a select few have been running there mouths all over Type R videos saying it's a better car...we have never said the Hyundai Is a crap car but we praise it for being a great car....I'm glad this video has come out and put those sour few Hyundai owners in some pie, humble pie.

[@RobertOfStAlbans_]

Gotta stop feeding the trolls

[@user-dm7oh3rd1l]

We aren't sour this is just close enough to prove the point. The r is over priced, however great. Add some wider tires or a catback to the n and it's winning on the twisties. 15k different, that's outrageous. Civic guys are a special kinda stupid

[@thecoldhardtruth2986]

​@@user-dm7oh3rd1l That's the thing though, if price wasn't the issue...who's picking the EN over the R? Call it stupid or crazy or whatever you want, I think it's more of a bad thing on Hyundai if people rather pay that much for a civic over their EN. I think @KitNato puts it perfectly: These cars only get cross shopped on the internet. If you ask CTR owners if they considered the Elantra you will get a blank stare. Ask Elantra owners if they considered the CTR and they will say they can't afford it. "Overpriced" is the same as "Can't Afford", Do I think a Bugatti Chiron is overpriced? Yes. Can I afford it? Fuck no. It's all perspective, you'll have a good amount of people that think the EN is overpriced because they can't afford even that. That's why they bought lower trims below the N. The one's doing the crying in this entire comment section are mostly Hyundai Owners...how crazy that fact? Acting like a bunch of kids, to everyone else like me that arent Honda or Hyundai fanboys, you Hyundai guys look like the stupid ones to me. Complaining about something outside of their price range acting like they deserve to be given the option to afford it.

[@van_der_lindeDA]

@thecoldhardtruth2986 you have hit the nail on the head!

[@van_der_lindeDA]

@@user-dm7oh3rd1l special kinda stupid? You are that hyundai owner I was talking about! Grow up🤣

[@CP_3PO]

Very good comparison. Your videos were the reason I went CTR over an EN and GR, but I gotta give Hyundai props as I never ever considered owning one until the EN dropped. Bravo Hyundai.

[@user-nifinei34jd9]

If you factor in wider wheels/tires, brake, depreciation, etc $10k higher price tag on FL5 is not too bad.

[@vjd222]

Yeah, plus the full wide body kit. The EN has no unique body panels at all. Just different parts of the bumper painted to make it look different than the lower trims. After 2 years of owning the EN, the depreciation closes the 10k price gap, too.

[@ramadjones]

Only thing is that in the real world it's a lot more than 10k higher because of dealer mark ups.

[@vjd222]

@@ramadjones lol it's pretty easy to find at MSRP these days

[@Marbind]

You don't need depreciation. Wider body, real performance brakes, no need for brace bars (improved cargo space), no need for octane learning, one of the best manuals in the market, easy on the eyes design, etc.

[@pieswimmer1]

Not true ​@@vjd222

[@klasseact6663]

As an EN owner I appreciate this final comparison, DCT and OL. First effort and its THIS close to the King, imagine the next EN🤔 (2.5T/Brembos and 265 width tires for starters)

[@abdu8745]

The Elantra N is just a lot of fun driving around. The noises that come out of that exhaust make it fun at every speed, something I didn’t really get from the type r… don’t regret going with the EN. Esp because my local dealer was asking for 75k for a championship white type r 🤣

[@pilotvanquish3886]

lol 75k is wild

[@jimiverson3085]

Guess the dealer wanted to generate enough to buy themselves a Gen 1 NSX. It does seem like Type Rs can now be purchased at MSRP, but you may have to travel a bit.

[@IndyAvocadoKid]

Fwiw, dealers that do HUGE markups need to go out of business!😳🙄😒😏

[@dielaughing73]

"Styling exercises" is a great term for all those random creases in the panels. It's like they got the intern to noodle around in CAD for an afternoon and then accidentally loaded the result into the "approved" file

[@Woogzzzie]

As someone who owns the 24 EN, I would undoubtedly take the FL5 if price wasn't a factor. However, in the world we live in, especially here in canada, the FL5's are being marked up for 30k over the price of the 2024 EN DCT. The FL5 is an amazing car but not worth the 30k CAD more. The EN hits about 99% that the FL5 does and for a very good and reasonable price. Great video! Thanks for all you do!

[@ShankidyShank]

I have a 22 EN. Tried to get a Type R but markups were outrageous back then so ended up with the N. I love it and the heated seats help a lot in the winter in the northeast.

[@alltheboost801]

The the CTR is not just fast, but mechanically more sound, better built, handles better, more practical for daily use, looks wayyyyy better, has a more rich heritage and will hold its value A LOT better. That’s why it’s $10k more and worth it.

[@marcinhernik1270]

I didn't think I needed to see a hot vs lap between Mark and Jack but getting Fifth Gear vibes from it. Think we should see more of these!

[@Slayiden]

I almost bought an N, but man, Its hard to pass the type r, sure its a lot more but worth the $ imo.

[@levicharles996]

My god I hate sponsor ad that I usually skip ahead but I actually watched all of your story for the Simplisafe. Makes me want to get it haha 😆

[@kingmeshech5527]

People complained that the test wasn't fair because they didn't used the Dct for the EN. I think that should tell everyone all they need to know since the Type R only comes manuel. Type R FTW!!!

[@Zhandos18]

It doesnt matter, even manual elantra win the type R on track cus type r has overheat issues after 30min lap , the elantra stock doesnt

[@kingmeshech5527]

@@Zhandos18 😆

[@stephend6439]

How are we not talking about that ad!!! Incredible

[@PiroFyre]

0:51 Yeah, I don't know why there was so much complaint with octane learning and whatnot. Like it was 0.1 sec behind the mighty CTR on track with the same tire but different size. That's excellent from a company that doesn't have as much rich racing history like Honda. And not just that but these cars are 4 cyl turbo cars. Eventually, when they both get beaten on and things start to heat up under the hood, it'll start to pull timing. In the end, both cars will make similar power after like 5 min on track. I don't think many people take that into consideration.

[@kristoferfc6525]

yeah these skits with your sponsors are gold man

[@AP1GO9K]

Funny Mark thinks we are him getting MSRP so its only $10k. Even last week I made over 20 calls different dealerships average price $53k. Wish you guys lived in the real world like the rest of us 😢

[@windingus3722]

There's a spot in NC that offers them at MSRP. Autopark Honda.

[@pilotvanquish3886]

Not sure where in the country you are but in the northeast with some calling effort FL5 can be had for MSRP now....FL5 type r facebook page confirms this weekly. Brand new Integra Type s are easily found under MSRP.

[@CODE-BROWN]

You have to reach out more if you really want one. It's that simple. Fly out, drive it back or have it transported. It's what I'll do if I can't get my local dealer to get me the color I want.

[@eFxAstro]

Not only do I never skip the ads, I get upset when there are no ads. I want another ballad!

[@KevDee-Type-S_R]

FL5 definitely wins BUT the Elantra N sounds better. The Integra Type S corrects that issue with a beautiful exhaust sound.

[@TassieLorenzo]

It's the same exhaust without the front resonator, as the ITS doesn't need to meet stricter Japanese noise rules. You can easily change the CTR exhaust to make it the same. 🙂

[@clubracer6]

I'll take fun over lap times all day long! Awesome video as always, especially since I actually want to watch the product placement due to the entertainment level. Who else does that!? Thank you!

[@gurgenmakaryan4428]

The elantra looks very weird intererrior exterior, concerning to powertrain, that's a new platform, not sure how can handle through the years, honda made his proofs.

[@brettbrantley1474]

I’m glad you guys decide to make this video, I feel the Elantra is going to get some good updates soon but the one we have now is an absolute blast to drive compared to the technical powerhouse that is the type R. Both are great but I’d still rather have something different!

[@rosgoncharuk2403]

In this type of cars, the price is the main factor. EN clear winner.

[@Marbind]

Until depreciation takes away the price trophy.

[@Scypher0th]

there both still massively overpriced from what they SHOULD be priced at

[@Omilinon]

@@Scypher0th The Elantra N is very moderately priced for what it is. The Type R, not so much. Especially when you factor in the insane mark-ups.

[@rosgoncharuk2403]

@@Scypher0th you don't understand how inflation works. The money is worth less due to the increase in quantity, hence you need more of them. $1 four years ago is now worth ~0.6-0.7 $. It is not because car makers suddenly became greedy (they always were), it is that your paper (or digits) are more useless.

[@lKRISPY]

@@MarbindExactly, used FK8’s are still selling for damn near what they cost brand new years ago. I don’t see the EN replicating that

[@rvlunarshift6076]

I love watching these videos since I’ve been to Autobahn a couple times with my zx6r

[@thatoneguy401k]

I don't own either car but was curious, is there a reason you guys didn't state the FL5s lap time on the same day with the same DA?

[@DaddyRanch]

The VN I had was a complete lemon - 3 transmissions under 20k KMs due to misaligned pins, and the dealership working against me for the warranty was abysmal. Everything about Honda is better.

[@NoodlesExtraMSG]

I am fugly as sin but Mark's Emmy worthy Simpli Safe Ad has inspired me to roll ip my sleeves and double-side tape 30 mirrors and cameras and live stream my post-Arby's Bowel movements on social media, in hopes that one day, I can have as many stalkers as the @SavageGeese celebrity duo. Dreams can come true.

[@air-headedaviator1805]

Oh chiz, looks like Savagegeese snapped with this video. Absolutely cooking.

[@CancelledMcCree]

No… NOOOOO!!!!! Why didn’t you put the FL5’s wheels & tires on the Elanta?! THIS ISN’T FAIR!!!!!! Redo the entire video & give the Elantra the same horsepower! It’ll wAlK on the civic after 10k worth of mods are thrown at it! I’m so mad for not buying a CTR to begin with! Btw I’m being sarcastic btw 😂

[@jackholmes8105]

They were on the stock tires they come with from the factory. Including their sizes. A 265 wouldnt fit on the elantra n either. They were both on pilot 4s as well

[@dielaughing73]

Not sure $10k would get the job done

[@NotAnonymousNo80014]

@@dielaughing73 Then you add another $10k worth of mods and redo the video one more time.

[@dielaughing73]

@@NotAnonymousNo80014 otherwise it's just not fair

[@alexandercalderon7098]

​​@@jackholmes8105why did you guys test the N in manual mode? I don't know how familiar you are with this cars DCT but the dct feels significantly slower in manual mode. I was looking forward to this video but I was really wanting to see the DCT in its fastest form.

[@brushymountain1]

I bought a 17 elantra sport 6M new based off your review back in the day. Use it as a fun daily driver. 77k miles and counting. Couldn't be happier for the price i paid back then :)

[@mahcooharper9577]

Getting rid if a manual never fixes anything. And yes the Civic is cool and outstandingly engineered but I find it a little soulless and personally I prefer the N. Having said that, I dont know why fanboys have to argue either way really - why cant people just buy what they like and what suits them and not try to justify their choices to everyone else?

[@porschegt2346]

Nice way to say you couldn’t afford the type R 😂

[@mahcooharper9577]

@@porschegt2346 that's exactly what I'm talking about - you prefer the Type R, you buy it. They even said here that the N is more playful and fun, and that's more important to me. If being slightly faster around a track is more important for you that's fine.

[@RatBürgerSk8]

​@@porschegt2346Nice way to say you are a shallow and materialistic person who spends money to impress strangers.

[@camrenkunishima5819]

​​@@mahcooharper9577 Yeah this is the reason I hate the car community rn. It's just all about clout and how expensive your car is. Like why can't I enjoy my cheap car?

[@vndb888]

Cause people are dumb. They have no capacity to see nuances or have the ability to understand another human being. Probably the same guys that "swim" in and out of traffic thinking it's cool. I'm not rich and my hyundai has treated me well on and off the track.

[@TheBlacksun187]

this is the best ad ive seen in a long time

[@joec.5009]

Type R is way too expensive. you can get Z, supra, mach1 or ZL1. need 4 door? buy a gently used M3. elantra N is the answer if you want something you can afford with 100k warranty. and it's a better DD.

[@Samarium62Sm]

Is that a huge gap in the panels on the driver side hood of the elantra?