Stop using oven cleaner to clean EGR valves!

[@michaelbasher]

Excellent advice appreciated. Oh, and you're a natural with your video presentation. Very good educator/ teacher...

[@moremolecules]

Many thanks indeed Michael, rather appreciated!

[@shamrozanjum]

Most people don't change a toothbrush enough, use this opportunity 😂

[@bobnicholls]

Brilliantly explained, thank you. Would you use a proprietary Carbon Cleaner, or always detergent?

[@lesleyavery7166]

Brilliant Explanation and a good warning to everyone including me!!!

[@MrTeknown]

I've used Oven Degresear. It is liquid and makes a white foam, it cleans good. The disolved stuff gets into the foam and makes it like a brown liquid. Used it for EGR valve, for EGR cooler, even for the plastic maniforld and it did a great job. It says highly concentrated to remove grease and scorced grime. It is called Sano Forte Plus, don't know if you have it in your contry.

[@west_park7993]

dude: oven cleaners are all alkaline. they will damage aluminum, but not plastic and not steel. go check your chemistry books.

[@MrTeknown]

It is an aluminum block, not aluminium foil. It barely cleaned the black stuff and there is no visual loss of material, it just looks cleaner.

[@west_park7993]

@@MrTeknown so, what is the difference between aluminum and aluminum? the foil is thin and will corrode much faster. the block material will corrode too. especially if you leave it long enough. so, why would you run corrosive solvent if you dont have to?

[@MrTeknown]

@@west_park7993 the thing is that you will not put a hole in it by cleaning it. It is not gallium or something to really break it. There are of course other cleaning methods and solutions, but this is cheap and effective, decently fast and practical. You are not cleaning precision tools or microprocessors with it, but exhaust components. The valves will keep proper seal if you worry about it. You will not clean it daily, I did the cleaning for the full intake and egr valve and cooler on my A6 2.0 TDI 2010 (caha 170hp) at 245 000, used the spray oven cleaner and washed it with water.

[@west_park7993]

@@MrTeknown there are mating surfaces, flanges. and there are surfaces where the piston moves and slides. these will corrode and will lose its geometry. anyway, do as you please.

[@МИЛО-о6т]

Користм прилику,,гледам ваше видео прилоге,Феноменални су,поучни,мени је жао немам превод,користим логику и ваш рад.поздрав ,Сртбија

[@bogdan13grbea]

Simply brilliant

[@rolandoxsandoval6943]

Very good! I didn't know thank you for sharing 👍

[@MichTuning]

very useful video. But I have a question: what can I use to clean the plastic intake manifold of a BMW? There is no aluminum present in these varieties

[@moremolecules]

yes, absolutely, go for it

[@jbone1383]

😂 yeah, what he said, go for it!! 🤷‍♂️

[@veerrajutv1642]

After applying the oven cleaner, immediately brush it with toothbrush inside or outside, and clean with water within 5 to 10 minutes to avoid damage to the aluminum body. Mr.Muscle will mix with the dirt immediately, so better to start brushing immediately and avoid damage to the metal. Today I have cleaned my scooter engine, which is having a lot of grease and dirt. Within 5 minutes I could able to remove the entire dirt and see my entire scooter engine clean and new. After washing the scooter engine, I cleaned with a good towel. I am very happy with Mr. Muscle's oven cleaner, but as you said rightly, we should allow the oven cleaner to stay longer duration. Another observation is it will eat away rubber seals in the engine head. I had a very bad experience with oven cleaner during my motorcycle head cleaning. Now I am very careful and do not spray on rubber parts.

[@moremolecules]

I mean yes you can use it. I only made the video for people to be aware of what can happen and what is happening. There will be some aluminium eaten away, but if you are quick enough it will work. I prefer dishwashing liquid, it is much safer, but requires a bit more scrubbing with a toothbrush 🙂

[@chrisbutcher4497]

Thank you for the video and love the comedy. Saved me over 300 pound. 👍

[@FlyHighWavesSounds]

People are using Mr Muscle Foam and nothing work like it. No EGR cleaner. I tested all. I tested many chemicals on aluminium. After a rinse with an acid can even protect the aluminium like is made in Anodising. That drain cleaner can be acid like other ones up to 97% sulphuric Acid. Not Mr. Muscle but cleaning it right after will be fine. I cleaned my intake manifold, egr, and the valve and everything is fine. The worst thing is that will be a darker color if left for 24 hours but we are talking about minutes and nothing works better. I even tried to engrave aluminium with saturated Sodium Hydroxide that is in the oven cleaner and without success. It only goes on microscopic level on surface and in hot water a bit faster but i don't think will affect the build up. In the same way oil can enter in pores and can make the surface slippery.

[@moremolecules]

I agree that doing it quickly should work, but the reaction happens straight away and some aluminium will be eaten. If it is quick it will not do that much damage. I generally use any dishwashing liquid and a toothbrush, but I suspect that Mr muscle will clean it well inside where I cannot reach with a toothbrush.

[@ox-cetane4887]

best advice I have heard on youtube

[@Surfingaliens65]

Never use tap water as a final rinse. Use De-ionised water. The mineral residue left by tap water causes oxidisation and the carbon sticks to the mineral residue. I have 3 EGR valve used in rotation between each service. 👍

[@moremolecules]

Hahaha, I assume that is ironic, but you may want to recalibrate your 3 EGR valves ;-) kzbin.info/www/bejne/ZqSWaqecntmiqdE

[@captango]

Rain water is just as good.

[@RichieRich845]

The oven cleaner you used contains Sodium Hydroxide, yes it eates aluminium, try using Mr Muscle Oderless Oven Clean contains Alkaline Salts doesn't eat aluminium. Test on aluminium foil for one hour, no problems. I just cleaned my EGR and my EGR Cooler. I soaked the cooler overnight with petrol over night and placed in the ultrasonic cleaner for two hours and thought it was clean, until I used packing tapes to seal both ends, made a tiny hole in each end, used a different spray nozzle from my WD-40 with a straw and sprayed through one of the small hole until it came out of the other hole and it came out black. Mr Muscle Oderless Oven Clean is foaming and expands so it reached ever area of the intercooler and I left it in for an hour, rinsed with warm water until the water came out clear. Looking inside it was shiny like new.

[@kanadaijuharszirup]

You did this on a 1.6 hdi engine? Was it difficult to remove the cooler? Didn't you clean the manifold too?

[@RichieRich845]

@@kanadaijuharszirupNo I did this on a Mitsubishi Triton MQ 2015 2.4L. On the intake manifold I used Liqui Moly Intake and Valve cleaner as I didn't have any Mr. Muscle left. I did this outside the car, it took a few goes as this was the first clean in 14 years. I usually don't take anything off the car, I use a stick against the car seat and the accelerator and rive the car to 2500 and spray Liqi Moly into the intake Manifold until the can is empty, I do this every 7500km and change the engine oil.

[@kanadaijuharszirup]

@@RichieRich845 unfortunately these parts are well hidden at the back of the engine in 1.6 hdi. But i will give it a try soon. Can you feel any difference in performance while driving the car?

[@RichieRich845]

@@kanadaijuharszirup no difference, my car drives well, the only reason I did this was because I have a bad idle and no trouble codes, tested all sensors, all good. Did a vacuum test with smoke machine to see if I have a hose somewhere that is leaking air and found that the EGR was leaking badly, I couldn't tell if it was the EGR it self leaking or the gasket. Replaced with new gasket $20 but it wasn't that, on the body of the EGR is a hole facing the engine so you can't see it, the hole is for atmospheric pressure to allow the diaphragm to move freely when the car applies vacuum, no air should be coming out this hole, this means that some exhaust fumes is coming out instead of going to the intake plus the air coming from the turbo is also leaking. I replaced the EGR twice with OEM still same problem. Surely two new EGR with the same problem as mine can't be faulty. Booked it with the dealership, long story short no trouble codes your good to go, still have the same problem, they charged $200 for 15 minutes to tell me no trouble codes and it could be valve clearance or EGR. I booked my car to get fixed. They did not do a smoke test or any other diagnostic, just plugged in the PC, idiots. Back to square one, I will be doing valve clearance myself instead of paying them $1850, if that doesn't work going to order another OEM from Mitsubishi instead of eBay OEM, just incase this eBay supplier has a faulty batch. Look at one of my videos I tested the second EGR outside the car and convinced myself it must be normal before installing it. But before this my Hyundai i40 1.7 2012 the intercooler and intake is filling up with oil even though I have catch can, oil coming from the turbo so that will be coming out to change the internal compressor and turbine as one unit, I tried last week and found that there was no room to swing cat. I will have to remove the exhaust manifold with the turbo as on unit, just need to buy exhaust manifold gasket. Thanks

[@RichieRich845]

Or you can use Penrite Intake and Valve clean that also foams up, if you can't find Mr. Muscle oven cleaner.

[@erzincanli]

There is some various water based products on the market. Some of them are only for clean, some of them for clean and shine, some of them only for oven and also for carbon clean. The only thing should do put in a container warm water and add the product 1:3 or 1:1 ratio depends on how much part will need and leave the piece in for quarter or half hour, use in ultrasonic clean if you have, leave it for a day if carbon as thick as a finger, then rinse it with a tap water. You don't have to use mechanical clean. Carbon will be all gone and the piece will shine like a new part. This is for aluminium parts only. You can use it on engine wash with spray bottle too.

[@aplsms]

few notes: 1. EGR valve body made not from aluminum, but from aluminum alloy. 2. the body is a bit more "massive" than the aluminum foil 3. you can use "foam" oven cleaner, it is a very little working liquid that will apply to the valve. (better -- use special liquids) 4. there are a lot of special carbon cleaners and degreasers in the auto store. use them first. 5. TSP (heavy-duty cleaner) works slower, but better. 6. you should not do just soaking you need some mechanical work. Just notes -- you can ignore them.

[@moremolecules]

I agree with these, but even though an alloy, still quite fragile and can be degraded.

[@BarryBollox.]

I Might try that elbow grease stuff. I heard it was good for mr muscle.

[@jamesruan913]

I know this is a old video but I’d say it’s more of an educational lesson than ,what can we clean our EGR with ,the real subject really is aluminium manufactures coat the aluminium but people are unaware of this for many reason but just recently 2024 my chip pan which is coated with fix grease ,but manufactures coat with a “something” I decide to soak it overnight in Soda crystals and wonderful job of cleaning the grease started off as shiny aluminium but now it’s a dull colour electric fryer ,wonder at first to whether your still able to eat the fried items ,we cautiously eat and found no difference in taste - but a 2nd round in years to come maybe all another story.

[@moremolecules]

Many thanks indeed for the comment. The video was meant to be kind of satire a bit.

[@mesutkaya275]

bro, you are amazing !

[@christianrazvan]

Yes the reaction is something but keep in mind that is just aluminum foil which is very thin and you left it in the product long enough, now compare it with the body of the egr which is several 100 s bigger and the time is short

[@moremolecules]

Yes, I agree that there is a mass of aluminium in the EGR valve and I have not said that the whole EGR valve will be dissolved. Nevertheless, the surface does not get just polished with the KOH/NaOH. You get molecular throughs, dimples and so on. So, these imperfections accumulate more carbon as the surfaces are not smooth enough. In other words, you get a lot more carbon if you treat the EGR valve with KOH/NaoH, kind of defeats the purpose, no?

[@christianrazvan]

@@moremolecules Well if that much carbon acumulates in 10 years with the polished surface and after the NaOH clean it gets dirty faster because of the microspores but say it holds at least 2-3 years before it fill up againg with carbon then is a fair trade off before you need to buy a new unit or scrap the car

[@moremolecules]

@@christianrazvan I agree that if one does not care too much or you expect to replace the car then it is alright. But the problem is that the next owner will have to deal with the more frequent cleanings of the EGR. I am on the opinion that a job has to be done well, not perfect but to a decent standard.

[@jupiteradventure5284]

One issue. The foil is not pure aluminium, or else it wouldn't bend around your oven chicken. I think your test is extremely flawed by using foil as a base sample.

[@Way2Do]

I used hot water and two tabs of the dishwasher and a bit of Natron

[@peteyourdoom]

Good warning!

[@zeshanhussain1715]

TFR (non caustic) are better option. Just soak the cooler without any electical parts in a tub with some TFR(traffic film remover) which is used to was carbon film from lorries and vans. It works as a treat the soot falls out after few hours of soak. No need for scrubbing and it doesn't dissolve aluminium parts.

[@moremolecules]

Have not heard of TFR, but will definitely chek it out.

[@curiosity2314]

Good advice.

[@manueltereso3551]

And car light weels cleaner? Its for aluminium and reacts with other things. will you make a video?

[@moremolecules]

Ahh, not too sure about it. I can check it of course. The easiest is to use dishwashing liquid and an old toothbrush, it is just cheaper. TBH, anything will work that can dissolve carbon and it does not work on the aluminium.

[@michaelbasher]

I understand if the aluminium is hot, it won't be affected. Only affects cold aluminium.

[@moremolecules]

It is a chemical reaction, the hotter the components the faster the reaction. If it isvery cold then yes, the reaction will be slower.

[@gesheepistemology8050]

What about the cooling pipe... logically that is smaller and first place to cool so it will have more carbon than EGR, ASV and Intake Manifold.

[@moremolecules]

Yes, that would be clogged as well, but generally the first bit the gasses hit is the EGR, so most of the carbon will end up there, but the other will also be pretty clogged up. Need to do that one day.

[@gesheepistemology8050]

@@moremolecules Thanks for reply. Just logically, it is 4 things that need to be decarbonized...I am waiting on the gaskets and rings, well just the rings now. I think cooler/EGR/ASV are a must and 40k km.... Inlet every 80k km. Haven't got to exhaust system yet... next bloody rabbit hole!!! Great little cars but some things that make it a pain in the arse.

[@moremolecules]

@@gesheepistemology8050 Yes, these needs to be decarbonised, which is on my to do list for quite some time now, haha

[@keesstaps4606]

Why not test it on aluminium tealight

[@krazed0451]

How about mag wheel cleaner? :-)

[@tonyrice3348]

Hi, great video as usual, I followed your guide to remove my egr. I've replaced it 3 times, 2 second hand egr, none worked. I put a brand new egr on the car, my question is, do I need diagbox, or will a garage with a good autel scanner be able to program it?

[@moremolecules]

Yes, you would need diagbox with any EGR that was not there to begin with, second hand or new. I am not aware of any other software that can do it, apart from diagbox unfortuntely.You could be lucky though, the purpose of the recalibration is to tell the ECU the lows and highs of the new EGR, but a new one or second hand one could be within a few percentage points off from your old one, so kind if being lucky, but it will be stil not quite there.

[@tonyrice3348]

@@moremolecules thank you for the reply. I bought a new one from a parts shop it was £125 I think the brand is beckerman. I have a topdon artidiag and it fails anytime I try to program it. I have it disconnected for now I will get it to a garage with a better scanner, I will let you know! Keep the videos coming they are some of the best and most informative on KZbin. Greetings from the North of Ireland 👍😁

[@moremolecules]

@@tonyrice3348 Thank you, really appreciated! Hope you will be able to program it. You only need the interface, the diagbox you can download from variety of torrents.

[@tonyrice3348]

@@moremolecules I had diagbox I paid £100 for it, I tried to program egrs with it and it failed every time. So I got rid of it and bought the topdon. It won't program them either haha. Now I must say it was used egrs and one new from eBay but the new one was a cheap aftermarket it only cost £55 I think, the diagbox wouldn't program any of them. There's a local Citroen specialist near me I will go see him next week.

[@moremolecules]

@@tonyrice3348 I also used an aftermarket one, the original was waaay too expensive. Hella, it was fairly cheap, but have not had problems with it for the last 3-4 years. Previously I bough a Haas (as in F1) one and from new it was non-stop giving me errors. It was sticking from new, the surfaces were not machined too well. The diagobx is a bit temperamental, depends on the version and other stuff. Once I programmed mine, I have not touched it and it runs on a very old XP laptop only for that, hahaha. The Citroen specialist should be able to program it fairly easy and hopefully cheaply. It is ~30min job, probably less.

[@gilbert643]

Use brake cleaner and it's OK. DECAPFOUR is the best.

[@jamesconnelly927]

very good video well explained

[@backroadhustler8687]

Hes using thin aluminum foil, turbos are a hell if a lot thicker than that. And your not soaking your turbk in 100 oven cleaner. If your not putting water intk a squirt bottle and diluting your cleaner your doing it wrong. This guy clearly doesn't pay attention to how this job is supposed to be performed. Squirt bottle. Diluted oven cleaner. Spray every couple seconds for about a min. Then flush every couple seconds for another min. Done

[@martinsrc8752]

Could I use petrol on the plastic manifold like this?

[@moremolecules]

Yes, petrol works

[@martinsrc8752]

@@moremolecules big fan of your channel Mr.! I'm doing a big job on this engine now. I'm not a mechanic but I have no choice..

[@moremolecules]

@@martinsrc8752 Good luck with the job(s).

[@martinsrc8752]

@@moremolecules discovered that the tip of glow plug fell in the chamber and damaged piston and head

[@moremolecules]

@@martinsrc8752 Yeah, that could happen and it is tough, head off to get them out.

[@dieseltips]

Awesome. You're not using the catch can any more?? Greetings.

[@moremolecules]

Not I do not, I had an annual car check (MOT in the UK) and had to remove it. I have not put it yet on the car. They will fail it because I have an emissions stuff on the car. I will have to do a video of the efficiency of oil catch cans, it is on the list of videos to do.

[@Breasler]

A lot of Valves and coolers are stainless steel

[@dennisvandinter3700]

HAHAHA🤣🤣🤣 "Good opportunity to change toothbrush"

[@99ron30]

"cillit bang burnt on degreaser" works very well, I got my egr mostly clean with it. But then I got stupid and obsessed to try and remove every piece of carbon. So I also tried "oven pride gel", and straight away you see a reaction with the aluminium. It goes white colour at first and then I waited 45 minutes, rinsed it and now egr is dark in colour and the metal feels slightly rough as you described. Lesson learned.

[@S40TBS]

You could use the wife's toothbrush 😂

[@moremolecules]

Yeah, could do next time😁

[@johngibson1256]

Yes but is that aluminum foil caked in 100.000 miles of caked oily soot. No. Is the EGR valve coated. Yes.... Okay I figure since it's solid cast aluminum and coated a soak ion Mr Muscle overnight will only remove the sooty oily carbon build up.. Never did any harm in my Skoda fabia 1.9 Tdi or Golf 1.9 GTD It helped with the limp mode problems.

[@nicholasroberts6954]

Err . . . Err . . . .couldn't you neutralise the effect of the alkaline oven cleaner by treating it, after the application of oven cleaner, with a weak acid e.g. supermarket citric acid (Cheap as chips, as used to remove calcium from kettles). And then wash with distilled water, wipe down, and finish with a light oil spray. Agree with toothbrush suggestion. Of course you could go high tech and use an ultrasonic agitator and partially immerse the valve in a prescribed cleaning solution (As used in hospital CSSD departments to clean fine instruments). Come o clean as a whistle

[@moremolecules]

Yeah, ultrasonic cleaner is quite good, unfortunately a bit expensive and I do not have it. The point of the alkaline solution was not that it acts over long time after the treatment, simple wash with water will remove it. It is the fine micro holes that will be left using it. I agree, it will not be visible, but the surfaces will not be as smooth, so more carbon will start to accumulate. The light oil spray is not a good idea, the carbon and the oil and temperatuer from the engine will make a very hard paste out of that.

[@queensapphire7717]

Rinse with denatured alcohol.

[@queensapphire7717]

Mopar sells an EGR cleaner

[@familieaa1968]

شكرا جزيل

[@Incountry]

Just buy a new one and get over it…

[@agondokusumo-111]

What about baking soda?

[@moremolecules]

Good question and while I am not a chemist it does some that baking soda also reacts with aluminium. I would say the safest probably is just dishwashing liquid and good old elbow grease.

[@pfoxhound]

Just program it out.

[@curtisj2165]

That Surf detergent in your cupboard would make an even better job of cleaning an egr valve. The biological powders eat grime

[@moremolecules]

Yeah, probably would be good as well. I prefer the dishwashing liquid, but the surf might work just as well.

[@madcat4563]

The oven cleaner thing got a 🤨, reaction from me the first time I saw it. There's a reason you don't find oven cleaner in automotive store.

[@achohan8760]

What about WD40 is that ok to use on a egr valve ?

[@moremolecules]

I would not use it, it might get to a more sludgy mixture combined with the carbon from the exhaustl

[@thecomanche1]

Go in first with dish soap and hot deionized water, then use muscle if there are tough deposits. Rinse out quickly with hot deionized water.

[@alekseikurepin1433]

Да, да. Я все понял. 👍

[@ianmaclean3422]

Cleaned my egr valve and then rinced with wd40 and dried off

[@nicholasroberts6954]

You never know . . .in days to come . . Manufacturers may develop casting and finishing techniques for making the internal airways of EGR valves as smooth as a baby's bottom . .. . . which would, at a stroke, reduce carburetion and intake faults caused by carbon accumulation and this would . . . .at the cost of a few UK pounds per piece . . .increase customer satisfaction (Shock ! Horror !) . . . .give 'em a chance though, they've only had over 100 years to work the problem. (Satire this time). i've heard, from an unimpeachable source, that when the AI bots completely take over the VW/Skoda engine design department, re-designing the EGR manufacturing process or even dispensing with EGR valves completely will be top of tneir agenda . . No wonder they're trying to ban AI (More painful Satire !)

[@moremolecules]

Hahaha, this made me really laugh. In the name of customer satisfaction...🙂

[@dominicanwar363]

The word is gelatinous. If you have aluminium components in your engine less than 0.2 mm wall thickness, you have bigger problems than this. Oven cleaner FOAM works just fine, you are a funny fella. Are you Russian?

[@bluebull399]

I've owned audis for 20 years and have always used Mr Muscle oven cleaner. My EGR will last 100k after a clean. Also use it to clean sticky turbo vanes and the intake manifold. Of course people are going to slate it. They want to sell you expensive snake oil and engine cleaning services.

[@moremolecules]

I am not selling anything actually if you follow that video or any other videos of mine. I was only pointing out that this is a potentially dangerous thing to do. I also said that if one does it quickly then it should be ok, but I would not do it myself. Your argument that you have always used it is like the argument that my grandfather smoked 3 packs a day and lived till 100, it does not negate the overall damage done.

[@queensapphire7717]

Buy a new one for $80

[@moremolecules]

A decent one is a lot more than $80.

[@abacusz4167]

Bull💩. You can do this. Clean and wash. Simple as that

[@moremolecules]

I suspect that probably physics or chemistry is not something of your specialty.

[@jimritter9769]

Use ethanol glycolic