Ne Plus Ultra: Rachel Maddow on American Fascism 1940s to Today

In a very special 1-on-1 episode of Talking Feds, Rachel Maddow joins Harry to discuss the stunning, and relatively unknown, historical episodes of American flirtation with fascism and armed insurrection in the 1940s, which she chronicles in her latest tour-de-force podcast, Ultra. After delving into some of the highlights of the remarkable 80-year-old story, the two discuss the possible lessons for our own troubled times and how we as a society can push back against today’s parallel threats.
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[@lseh4720]

High school students should be required to listen to both Bagman and Ultra. Harry and Rachel, you guys are National Treasures, both of you. The very first time I saw Rachel on the K. Olbermann show, I turned to my husband and said, “I don’t know who she is but I LOVE her.” Thanks for all you do. Both of you give me hope for our country, our world, our humanity.

[@georgeb.wolffsohn30]

In the eighth grade (early '70's) we were sat down to watch the news reels of the liberation of Dachau and Auschwitz. Our parents who had served in WW2 wanted us to understand the realities of that war.

[@bryanwilloughby6040]

😀❤wzO2o❤22a😂22😂​@@georgeb.wolffsohn30

[@fkknight1]

Thank you Rachel Maddox for going down this path. Both Bagman and Ultra are excellent.

[@chezwyk6002]

Ultra was an amazing podcast! I love Rachel and miss her being on 5 nights a week. Can't wait to see the film adaptation of Bagman!

[@janene4855]

Well done! Both of you are a true asset to the " I want to know the truth" crowd.

[@debbiesavage7107]

Well said!

[@lindaharwood6295]

Well said Janene, VERY well said!

[@ProgressiveDemLib]

Rachel’s podcasts are excellent. Her coverage in Ultra is chilling and hopeful. Best guest anyone could hope for❤❤❤Thank you both!

[@barakah856]

And absolutely shocking. Scary too when you hear it and see the similarities to what's happening right now.

[@marysharvey]

So excited to see Rachel Maddow today with you Harry. We love her, read her book Bagman and loved it. We listened to Ultra driving home from Texas to California. We couldn’t stop listening to it, we were blown away by all that we had never heard about! We were really stunned, and we kept looking at each other and saying “history is repeating itself”! Great job Rachel. Please keep it up, this is our history, and it sure is not taught in our schools!

[@louisecollard2320]

With trumps love of Hitler's book mein komph, his actions were almost duplicated.

[@doloresschultz6804]

When will you do a book on Daddy Bush and drugs for rifles, to Jeb and the lost election, to Dubya attacking Iraq. It is essential to accurate U.S. history. YALE U. Secret organizations also need a bright light shined on them.

[@doloresschultz6804]

Of course Pope Pius 12 and those in the Vatican and many priests and Catholics helped war criminals escape . Daniel Silva has written (beautifully researched) several books that cover Catholicism, with an intriguing Jewish protagonist. .

[@anonemaus159]

Ło 0😊p😂0😅

[@anonemaus159]

😊😊😊😊

[@Enola88]

I was born in 1952, and was unaware of the 1944 situation. This information gives me hope we can conquer this horrifying situation we have now. No school, no family members, no one asked me, a little girl, to pay attention. I just knew in my bones I must educate myself. I've watched in real time, even when I was just a child, JFK, Martin Luther, Vietnam, Watergate, and all the rest. In these years since 2015, I've been increasingly horrified, and very triggered. When we see no consequences, no justice, for the ones at the top, the hopeless feelings are hard to fight off. Thank you both for what you do. I've watched you both for so long. Please! More of you 2 together.

[@marysharvey]

That’s what my husband and I kept saying!

[@louisecollard2320]

PBS station WORD, does a lot of documentaries on WW2, extensive documentaries on the holocaust. Also on segregation/ civil rights.

[@elaineburnett5230]

You are a genius! But we all have the intelligence, if we dare use it. I'm African American but I too had to teach myself....

[@calamityjean1525]

"When we see no consequences, no justice, for the ones at the top...." Just because we haven't seen consequences YET doesn't mean we never will. I was born in 1951, so you and I are contemporaries. I remember that Watergate dragged on and on, I thought at the time that Nixon would never pay for what he did. But finally he was forced to slink away with his tail between his legs. Trump has already had more consequences than Nixon did; Trump wasn't reelected and Nixon was. I firmly believe that the only thing that will keep Trump out of Federal prison will be if he dies before being sentenced. And I hope he lives a long, long life. Behind bars.

[@Harvey-wc1xn]

I definitely empathize! I was born in 1951 and I'm also appalled by national politics and history since 2015.

[@PleaseDontEatAnimals]

I always enjoy Harry's and Rachel's analyses. This conversation was exceptional! 👏👏👏

[@TnBadMan]

Thank you both for clear information. You are a service to our society.

[@placeholderlastname3418]

Yes! Yes! And YES!

[@karonmalingo5798]

Thank you, Harry and Rachel.

[@maryfoster5189]

I grew up in Detroit and drove past Coglinś church, Shrine of the Little Flower, in the adjoining suburb of Royal Oak. Every time we drove by my father told me about Father Coglin, saying 'That is the church that hate built.

[@lorihayes1419]

I listened to Bagman and Ultra. Both were outstanding! Well done Rachel Maddow! 😊 I miss her in her evening slot because so often she told stories that put eyes on things no one else was covering. Her coverage of Navalny and what was happening to him, his activism and within Russia itself was outstanding. I am happy she is doing something she is obviously passionate about. She clearly excels in this area and I’m sure many others. She widens views and coaxes her audience to look beyond headlines and dig deeper. Hopefully more people will pay attention to events in history and learn from them. Can’t wait for her next project!

[@placeholderlastname3418]

Finally! Goes to show exactly how important history is to humanity's well being. A decent education is parallel. Keep going Harry;your contribution is sterling. Thank you!!!

[@kenhunt2861]

What a great and instructive discussion. You both are gifts to our society and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. 31:43 “relationship between racism and fascism” is absolutely right-on 32:54 alarm bell indeed. “Fascist authoritarian longing” 33:21 always has to come with scapegoating the people you want to describe as other.” The word “racism” doesn’t always include “othered” people like LGBTQ and trans-people. We need a more inclusive term than “racism.” 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[@barakah856]

Ultra- OMG. Everyone needs to listen to this podcast. Each episode is less than an hour so it's very easy to listen to.

[@starsabove8059]

I've been busy with other things - but I'm convinced I do need to listen to it. Thanks for the encouragement.

[@peterdawes8197]

When two brilliant minds converge you get clarity. From outpost New Zealand, well done guys. I was in the UK during the war but was too busy playing soldiers to understand the reality of those days. An Ultra film would be a blockbuster>

[@marylesak8529]

Great discussion! Both of her podcasts are brilliant!!!

[@sigridlee3743]

Bagman was awesome along with Ultra!!!! You both rock!!!!

[@TwylaGill]

As a Canadian, I thank you for this. History needs better highlighting like this.

[@keridane9381]

💔🤍💙

[@jacquirimown3886]

Watch Rachel Maddow series, incredible. I’m in Ontario and found both series so informative.

[@kimclarke5018]

Umm as a Canadian??? What part of that Canada, was shoulder to shoulder with GB in declaring war in 1939 when Germany invaded Poland. I’m Canadian as well, but live in the US, and as of 1992 I was asked one day in an operating room by a surgeon when WWII started. I stated 1939, and everyone else in that room laughed and said December 7, 1941. He looked at them, and told them I was right. He had formerly been a history teacher. The lack of education regarding everything, including history in the US is stunning. Their basic education system is failing, and has failed miserably which is why the US is falling behind all other industrialized nations. Further as of 2010 most graduate and PhD programs in all the sciences in the US, is populated by foreign nationals. I was finishing grad school at the time in DC, and we were studying it. My basic education in Canada was far and away so superior to the US it was mind boggling. The racism in the US has blown up since trump announced his candidacy in 2015, hence Charlottesville. “Jews will not replace us” neo-Nazi groups. The US needs to ditch the electoral college, and get a rein on all these fascists in many states. Further just recently in the last two months, Germany pulled off country wide arrests of people plotting to overthrow the government. The US is inching closer to fascist and racist authority. I have Canadian passport in hand should I need to use it to get out. We will see what happens in 2024 elections if electorate can get more of these radicals out of government at all levels.

[@haraldkoch4446]

This isn't history.

[@TwylaGill]

@Kim Clarke Just avoid Alberta. I finally moved from there. Too many rump lovers, proud boys with confederate flags, and efforts to make the healthcare system like USA's. Alberta is Texas North.

[@patriciamiller7133]

Rachel is absolutely brilliant. She blew me away with her research and that history repeats itself. She made me feel hopeful for the future.

[@georgesheffield1580]

Not just a talking head like many in the press .

[@clarencethompson2707]

TOO BAD her research is nothing but lying BS that's going nowhere she one of the biggest lairs on FAKE NEWS. PUTTING HOPE IN HER IS LIKE TRUSTING A STUPID POS.

[@CheersNE]

Rachel Maddow is a National Treasure! Thank you for having her on the show Harry.

[@janedexter2869]

Rachel looks so well without the standard make up and tv lighting, We need more and more of presenters given the opportunity to look like real people with natural rich facial expressions which adds to their creditibility

[@andreaperry938]

@@janedexter2869 100%

[@maryiced3931]

She missed her opportunity to be a National Treasure. She completely ignored the actions and behavior of the cdc and fda regarding covid treatment and protocol related to the virus and varients.

[@jonnieinbangkok]

You mean like typhus or coleria?

[@laurabealmear9293]

Wow that’s exactly how I feel about her! How lucky is her mate to share an evening, daytime or lifetime with this fascinating brain!!!I know my husband should be jealous but I have a brain crush on her❤️❤️❤️👍👍👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇦🇺🇦

[@Nemonurwingy]

I’m very much in your camp, Harry. I was stunned by this podcast and find it amazing how the people of the time managed to disappear these events. There were 20+ things that came up during the podcast where I could not help but yell “WHAT?!?!” while listening to it. One of the most remarkable things I’ve ever partaken of in media.

[@gleebranham5091]

Ahhh two of my favorite people...

[@lorihayes1419]

Thank you for having Rachel on. Both of you are great.

[@blackeyedlily]

An excellent discussion. ULTRA is a very educational podcast series. The best bit about it is learning about how we have faced similar challenges to our democracy in the past and that we were able to overcome them, at least temporarily. It feels like this will be an ongoing struggle in society for some time to come. I’m pleased to hear that it is going to be turned into a movie.👍

[@junejelm423]

Many thanks to each of you for this conversation .

[@simoneas8841]

I'm British but Rachel Maddow is a national treasure, the podcasts are excellent and at the end she gave a bit of hope. I miss the 5 days a week but she clearly needed a break and has spent her time well. Great episode, well done!

[@sempressfi]

Love knowing Rachel listens to this podcast 💙💜

[@nannettehuffman8397]

My dad served in WWII. My mom always said there was a huge opposition to getting into WWII. She always despised Catholics, and now you have tied up two of my questions about WWII.

[@AdamHarrisTrader]

I can NOT get enough of Miss Maddow's podcasts! CAn't wait for the films to come out!

[@carolsampietro9873]

This was great! Thank you both! Your truth has never been more necessary! Well done!❤❤❤

[@cherylcardran1776]

I've already listened to all 8 Episodes, and it is a WOW! Scary, but like Harry, I thought-- why haven't I ever learned about this? I did know a bit about Father Coughlin, but that's about it. Having said that, I loved listening to the 2 of you discuss it. Fascinating and very informative. Thanks!

[@stevendaleschmitt]

i was born in 1959. my dad, a teacher, taught me to read via newspapers and let us watch the viet nam war on the nightly news every evening. by the fourth grade i had figured out the government is NOT on our side. naturally, i have never once voted republican.

[@kokohead333]

yes - no schmitt 💙

[@Iknowonlywhatimtaught]

To my huniliation. I first voted republican in 1972 Reagan first term and Rush Limbaugh woke me up in 1983. I will forever wear that shame. But i have been fighting GOP ever since. I have social liberal views but conservative views. Far from GOPs actual views. The biggest mistake the last 70 years was ever electing a Republican to public office.

[@charlesvigneron565]

ULTRA was chillingly familiar to our present.

[@georgeeliot2012]

Because if history doesn’t rhyme it repeats.

[@morrispet]

Both of you are GREAT The Ultra story is INCREDIBLE So glad to hear it's going to be a movie People must NEVER forget this risk (Like getting cancer screenings 🤔)

[@catherinereynolds9644]

Truly, a fascinating conversation. Thank you☮️💜

[@malonesinclaire9201]

This is a great podcast…enjoyed everything about it. Well done Rachel.

[@MissPaintalot]

What an absolutely intriguing video. Thanks to both for taking the time to make this video. I’m a Brit but what happens in America has a huge bearing on us here and around the world. Let’s hope this fascistic maga party is dealt with at the polls next time round. Thank you again.

[@starsabove8059]

Many Americans don't realize the influence we have and why so many people world wide have a stake in what's going on here. There's plenty of sane people trying to push back against the fascists. Keep us in your thoughts.

[@georgesheffield1580]

The UK also had a small facist following .

[@elaineburnett5230]

Yup, it is a small world after all.🤔i

[@elaineburnett5230]

@@georgesheffield1580 I hope you are able to keep it small, very small.

[@lyndamedley543]

I will be voting blue 💙🔵 to halt this moment in history with Trumph lies, his misinformed base, and his enablers in the house and Senate. I hope many voters realize the need to be together to keep Trumph out and democracy safe!!

[@michaelismichael4640]

Brilliant discussion on a stunning podcast. Thank you Harry and thank you Rachel.

[@tdearsan]

I've been a fan of Rachel since her NPR days. She never disappoints.

[@mariadimascio5822]

I never knew all of this. Thank you for giving us an education. I never learned all of this in my history classes over 40 years ago. After watching this, I looked up the information to corroborate your discussion with Rachel today. It's a real eye opener. We need to know this. I appreciate enlightening us about the facts and details.

[@louisecollard2320]

I have to hold back on making this info available to younger people. I remembered the first time I saw some documentaries just on the holocaust. In my mid 30s, I still needed a stronger stomach, but my mental state was shear disbelief of man ability to be inhumane. Over time and with the Trumpian epidemic, it all boils down to plain hatred. One can add a lot of religious influence also. Go back to the quaker influence over the Indians. And it was the native Americans who helped the first Americans survive. That hatred extends well into Hispanics, who pretty much owned Texas and California territories. PBS is another good source of past history. Ken Burns has done some excellent documentaries on our past. I think there is some philosophy about knowledge and understanding the past helps clarify the present and possibly prepare for the future.

[@elaineburnett5230]

Great idea to do further research.

[@kathyd9324]

2 of the best ever together, what a wonderful treat! Thank you for another great episode. 💜🤗

[@bodotcom]

You two are great together, please collaborate more in the future!

[@ernestoxavier5426]

Simply awesome to see you together. ⚔

[@DarkBrandon2024]

Score! Harry! Hey Rachel! Always prepared & articulate! 👏👏👏👏

[@pamelab1400]

Thank you for having Rachel on. I'm a huge fan of hers. I will certainly try to find "Ultra". This is so frightening. I just have to hope and pray that we don't sink that low again. I've given some thought to emigrating but don't know where to. I just hope we can fix our problems.

[@marysharvey]

Ultra is on any Podcast, or Audible book. We listened to it while driving from Texas to our home in California. We were mesmerized by it, and couldn’t stop listening to it! It will not disappoint you.

[@dr.g3860]

I recommend it. It’s free with ads.

[@gregpappas]

Thank you. I was also stunned by Ultra. Glad you promoted it.

[@BigSteph63]

Thank you, this was a great conversation.

[@skyrocketcoast219]

Bagman was fantastic, read the book & listen to the Podcast. And ' Ultra' knocked me out! And I thought I knew US history! Nope. Fascism was way bigger than at 1st glance. And now The Republican party has delved deeply into Fascism of all kinds!!!

[@sigridlee3743]

I am so glad to have found this dialog.

[@Skymannot6939]

Awesome Harry thank you for bringing on the best of the best Maddow 👏

[@geoffmorris2409]

Ultra was excellent work, Rachel. My question is why hasn't it, way more frequently, been mentioned in all forms of media (especially in this MAGA world we're in right now)?

[@LADYKAT...]

People need to wake up before its to late! I'll never vote for a republican ever again! Their all fascist!

[@dprout3392]

Thank you both for a fascinating show.

[@NancyJohnson-n9h]

Thank you so much for inviting Ms Maddow to be on your program. It’s like hitting the jackpot twice on the same day. Everything positive I have heard about her is true twice over since I started watching her regularly. We are indeed fortunate to have so many outstanding individuals to guide us & keep us well informed through this truly historic Election Cycle!

[@docinparadise]

Wow! How does a channel with less than 30k subscribers, (however awesome and a hidden jewel) not only get Rachel Maddow on for a one on one long form chat, but have her be excited and looking forward to it? I’m gobsmacked and oh so pleasantly surprised 💕 congratulations on an excellent, educational and entertaining video!

[@adrianecalhoun1492]

Excellent discussion!

[@thamilton007]

This was an outstanding discussion, thank you both🙏💫😊

[@elligilberg1564]

Such a great interview and talk. I listened to Ultra, and I learned a lot of new interesting facts and details about those events from this discussion. Thank you,

[@gerardbiddle1808]

Great presentation Harry with one of my favourite investigative reporter Rachael Maddow. Thank you both. Loved Ultra, Rachael. Just a great piece of investigative reporting. It’s a pity we don’t learn from our own history or that history is forgotten. Mandatory listening for the US at this present time with Maga Trumpism. Can’t understand why Truman made O.John Roggie, the prosecutor’s report “top secret” after the death of the initial judge and subsequent restart of the new trial and his report.

[@shelleygebhardt3609]

A calm and informed conversation is always refreshing! Great show.

[@joanies6778]

Excellent! I will have to look for Rachel's podcast. Thank you, both.

[@curtisdush5686]

Great show, I love Rachel Maddow. 💙💙

[@bjspeck4337]

Great job, both of you!

[@EV-rc4jm]

Loveeeeeee Rachel, never miss her show on MSNBC on Mondays and her Ultra podcast!!!💙💙💙💙

[@cbufffly]

You said it Harry! You and Rachel together, riveting! Rachel's knowledge of government in history is astounding! And yours in law and government equally astounding! Thank you both so much!

[@jbdarr604]

Two of my FAVORITE people ❤❤❤❤

[@kwf6273]

Trump. "Let all the poison that lurks in the mud, hatch out." That is Trump.

[@codeidentifier08]

Great discussion.

[@eonarts]

Great discussion!

[@CarlaDimond]

Fantastic interview

[@susangordon1157]

I was unaware of this struggle in our history. It was certainly never taught in my history classes. If we fail/refuse to remember our history, we will surely repeat it.

[@louisecollard2320]

Actually it's been ongoing for a while. Look at the wanna be dictatorship in Florida. Trump laid the foundation, deathsantis wants to take it even farther, and other states are looking to join him. Keep hearing about the power of the people, well that is only limited by voting. Unless the right policies aren't brought to people via the vote, they're non existent. I want to be a decision maker. It seems that some states want more controll over what is done in their respective states, and less interference from federal and the constitution. This independent state legislation being eyed by the SC will give that right to the states and it won't stop with overturning the will of the people during federal elections.

[@katymooney8443]

Harry, I love all of your podcasts but this was one of your very best. Keep up the great work...and thank you for keeping us informed and sane!

[@patrickwalshe1330]

What a wonderful segment to be privileged to listen too !! See two of the most of the smartest ,intelligent,honest and articulate people we have.Hang in there .💪🤜💥❤

[@junebug5390]

Excellent show, very informative. Thank You both. 👍

[@anac2965]

I loved both of her podcasts. First rate.

[@danabarnes230]

I have been around the sun many times...I never knew this and I am a history buff. Well now I need to do some more research! Thank you guys. Very enlightening. I live Rachel. Bag Man was fantastic!

[@barakah856]

You have GOT TO listen to Ultra. What happened has been hidden in our history lessons- by design.

[@danabarnes230]

@@barakah856 I just started it...wow

[@barakah856]

@@danabarnes230 I know, right?? It's unbelievable!

[@louisecollard2320]

Our constitution is in need of some serious amendments. It's unfortunate that a the abortion law was reversed. After 50 years, it's addition should've been automatic. The SC is toying with a very destructive decision to voting, that independent legislative act. That will totally undermine the will of the people. The 2d amendment needs a major overhaul. Basically, arms were for PROTECTION of one's family, property, provide food, defense of country. But somehow, interpretation has been skewed. I am referring to what bastardation of 2d amendment by the state of Missouri. There are more changes needed. But these are my biggest bitching about concerns.

[@rayhall5280]

So awesome! Harry is so cool and now he gets the best, most amazing, funny person that I love to see and listen to since she was on with Al Franken way back in the day. ❤️

[@maureencoyle666]

Awesome conversation. Rachel…you are greatly missed on nightly tv!!! Just so you know! 💚🙏🏻🇺🇦🇺🇸🌍☮️☘️

[@KarenEikner]

Excellent

[@SoberOKMoments]

I'm 79. I can remember my Dad talking about the Fascist Father (Dad loathed him) when I was a kid growing up in Detroit. Interesting to hear that name again and to learn even more about him. Thanks.

[@kireden]

As I drove across the country at Christmas on I 40 then I 10, I listened to Ultra and then listened again to Bag Man. Looking forward to the movie. They were both so good.

[@bethm6941]

Love Rachel and you. TY

[@boomerang157]

I listened to Rachel's "Ultra" as soon as it came out. What a history lesson of things I never heard of. I also listened to "Bagman" when it came out. Stunning and shocking history. Again...love Rachel's work.

[@THEE_Kisywisy]

Ultra was PHENOMENAL

[@rhondamccleery5657]

Very insightful ! Thank you Harry and Rachel !

[@aginggracelesslywithagrain7799]

Ultra was awesome. I will have to check out Bagman!

[@niccielders3471]

I am so very much enjoying this, thank you. I love watching Talking Feds😊❤

[@sigridlee3743]

What a cool surprise thank you!

[@brianjennings7644]

I was a Maddow fan, long before she took up fishing. Since, right after she sold the Volvo.

[@lucyg8188]

Education is so very important I really appreciate Rachel and you the honesty is like breathing fresh air

[@catchingthemoon]

Great vid, thanks Harry and Rachel.

[@annabellagardner3190]

How good was this episode !!!!! Thank you so much Australia 🇦🇺

[@randirosehooper8315]

Awesome show!!

[@starsabove8059]

Nice to see Rachel on Talking Feds.

[@yolandasoto1240]

5/2 what a "wow" conversation. Was trying to listen while working, and had to stop and just listen. Thank you Harry for having this interview, and God bless Rachel for doing this work. Going to listen to the Ppodcast this evening.

[@donaldtemchack7751]

Harry, wow, wow, wow! Great show today! How enlightening! Thank you for having Rachel on the show and thank you Rachel for all this work you are doing to shine a light on what and why things are happening now and that yes it has happened before.

[@arturduchene]

Excellent. So informative. Rachel never disappoints and always delivers compelling insights into what we are really facing today. History does give us a better understanding of current events. Very thought provoking.

[@robinc6324]

Loved ULTRA, and have recommended to everyone. Thanks Harry and Rachel. Great episode.

[@cyninbend]

What an excellent show! TY so much.

[@keelyb4386]

Rachel Maddow is a national treasure. Our country is in a perilous time because so many of our elected officials (and citizens) are woefully ignorant of our history and don’t care. Keep up the good and necessary work Rachel (and you too Harry) ❤❤👍🏽👍🏽.