The Drama Behind WB’s AQUAMAN Pilot

[@BlazeLs-je7yo]

That's crazy, because Rosenbaum was one of the best things about Smallville, and easily the best Lex Luthor.

[@alex86fire]

I loved him in the first seasons, but from season 5 onwards it was all downhill for me. And it wasn't his fault as an actor, I think he's great. The writing was going from bad to worse. They didn't know what to do with the character, the whole Lana - Lex thing: hard to watch. I did love him in the Christmas episode where he gets shot and has a dream experience, that was a nice episode.

[@alexd4066]

It’s a shame Mike can’t enjoy any episodes on rewatch

[@snakekingblues3017]

this stuff been happening more and more were they don't really understand why something works so they do stuff like this thinking the character is disposable

[@yautjacetanu]

So easily the best lex. I think there could be a better one. He wasn't perfect. But no one has done it yet. King ping is close

[@yautjacetanu]

​@@alex86firethat was amazing. I hate Christmas episodes, I hated that episode for so much of it. But then the end was so cool! I think about that so much.

[@sm5574]

One place I worked as a Web developer, my performance review was near-perfect. Then they said based on that I was getting a 1% raise. Being a perfect employee wasn't enough for a cost-of-living increase. Some people just don't care how much they screw you over.

[@lindamawdsley6130]

Sorry to hear about Michael’s struggle to get the remuneration he so justly deserved, some of these people act like little gods which is despicable. Glad he managed to keep his sanity and become the better man😊

[@eeroterry1074]

I am surprised that Michael didn't get a pay increase. I loved the whole cast, but I really thought Michael brought Lex Luthor to life. He is the best Lex to date and a huge part of why I watched the show. Both Michael and Tom deserve to be the highest paid on the show.

[@Lordoftheapes79]

This was the WB. Their target audience was tweens and teens, and they were looking for romantic drama. I suspect that this is where the problems rose from. While the Lex and Clark romance was probably a big hit in fanfic, they weren't doing it on screen.

[@elementomega613]

How did he not?? He and Tom were the best part of the show!

[@Robocoppat]

their loss is our gain cause Alan is killing it as Jack Reacher. talk about a BadAss. he's a monster.

[@somebuddyX]

The Aquaman pilot "Mercy Reef" was really well made and well cast, and I liked the sub plots they were generating in the pilot, like all these missing people returning, Ving Rhames' connection to Arthur, Arthur's relationship with his adopted father Lou Diamond Phillips. I LOVED the scenes with fighter pilot Rachel Torres (which looked like it was filmed at a real military base) and loved that she was portrayed as really capable. The pilot felt a little more mature than Smallville which I really dug. I thought Justin Hartley was great so I'm also not so bummed it didn't work out and he ended up coming to Smallville and killing it as Green Arrow.

[@kristenballinger500]

Alan Ritchson addressed the Aquaman pilot on one of his interviews with you all on IOU. I think he wasn’t considered because this was his very first job and was thought to be too green?

[@jeffnowak3144]

Smallville was Tom's first gig...

[@kristenballinger500]

@@jeffnowak3144 Tom was on Judging Amy before Smallville. I also think Alan did a great job for his first gig! 😊

[@ForestTre]

Think about it like this Tom was a lot more green than Alan Alan actually had a few more shows under his belt where Tom was relatively new. So Allen's inexperience was not it That's not why Alan was not brought in because the heads of WB didn't want any more comic book movies and TV shows because they're idiots cuz they can't stand anything that requires a brain to watch. Like Michael said they're complete idiots they don't know what they're doing

[@mvprime8]

It was different people making calls about Aquaman than had done for Smallville. Smallville had launched on The WB 5-6 years earlier, Susanne Daniels was the president of The WB at that time, and when the Aquaman pilot was being made it was David Janollari. And also crucially at the same time when Aquaman was going to be launched, UPN merged with The WB, forming The CW. And the first president of CW was Dawn Ostroff, from UPN. So comparing how green Tom was compared to Alan doesn't work because it's different people with different opinions making the calls.

[@popeye697]

​@jeffnowak3144 Tom was on Judging Amy as Amy Brenneman's love interest the year before Smallville. Interestingly enough, Stephen Amell was Amy Brenneman's love interest on Private Practice the year before he got Arrow

[@FluffyPandaBeard]

This behind-the-scenes money ball is wild! 😲 Hearing about the drama with Aquaman and the network politics is just insane. You guys always keep it real, and that's why I love tuning in. Keep the stories coming! 🎬🔥

[@Uncleed251]

When Michael Left I wanted to stop watching but Toms performance kept me watching and Christopher Reeves was Right these two guys should have been Superman and Lex on the big screen in 05

[@flaysol7719]

Justin Hartley Aquaman show was already looking so good. But it became a one episode movie. They missed a big opportunity.

[@anthony310h]

They always try to save money. The chemistry between the cast was just crazy especially with Tom and Michael. I’m glad he was on for the seven seasons he was because he added so much. What a time 10 years of Smallville it was beautiful.

[@andregordon2599]

Im reminded of the fact that WB was weirdly protective of having like ANY mention of Lois in the first few seasons, and outright banned any mention of Batman like....why? Fans fully embrace multiverses now, proving these WB execs were wrong.

[@yangofice8361]

Rosenbaum's work ethic and situation is how i feel at my job now.

[@CaptainMaakasu]

It makes no sense to me that they didn't gave Michael a raise for each season, because he (Lex) was the 2nd most important character next to Tom (Clark). I love the show and forever will (with my tinted-pink-nostalgia-glasses) but I wish we could've seen it made today and how much greater it would've been. but it was one of those shows that paved the way for pretty everything we have today with capes and powers ^^

[@Catsclaw-ru6zw]

Michael is pretty much the heart & soul of Smallville beside Tom they're the glue that held the show together Lex is JR Ewing to Clark's Bobby Ewing.

[@44excalibur]

Warner Bros. wasted their time pursuing these projects. Everything begins with the Trinity: Clark Kent, Bruce Wayne, and Diana Prince. They should have done three shows about teenage Clark, Bruce, and Diana rather than reserving them for movies that almost never get made and using lesser characters on television. Gotham should have been a WB show and a companion to Smallville, not a Fox Network show airing a decade later.

[@Jason_Bryant]

I will offer one weak defense of the network wanting to recast Aquaman. Superhero crossovers were not a thing at that time. Today, in hindsight, we can look at all the cinematic universes and the success of the Arrowverse. Before all that, they didn't cross over. The biggest case I can think of is in the casting of "Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman". Gerard Christopher got very far in auditioning for the show. The producers saw him and told him that he was great. Then they looked at his resume and saw that he'd already played the role in the "Superboy" TV series. They kicked him out immediately. They didn't want to be tied to the continuity of the other show. They wanted to be able to do things their own way. Obviously, we all know now that crossovers can work and they can even fuel ratings. Back then, this wasn't so obvious.

[@BranBal]

Cause WB execs are stupid If it works in comics why wouldn't it work on TV?

[@darrenmacqueen9884]

@@BranBal It works in comics, but it also doesn't work in comics. Same goes for TV. One problem I have with comics is the same problem I had with the Arrowverse. It's overwhelming. It's cool to have this big interconnected universe, but trying to keep up with everything is hard. I dropped off from the Arrowverse after a while because it was too much trying to keep up with every show. I think them wanting to do their own thing without feeling the need to worry about connecting it to another show was smart.

[@BranBal]

@@darrenmacqueen9884 I guess you have a point there

[@robertstull8759]

I'll push back against this, because TV crossovers and spinoffs were incredibly common and had been going on for decades. Many sitcoms and one-hour dramas were spin offs of previous shows. The Jeffersons was a spinoff of All in the Family, for example, and they were two of the most successful sitcoms of their time. And they almost always had the same actor playing the character in the spinoff. So for TV the idea of a spinoff is completely normal, so why wouldn't it be for super hero TV shows... in fact there were multiple super hero cartoon shows that had spinoffs and crossovers. I remember at the time of the Aquaman pilot I thought it was weird that they didn't keep the same actor, but I also didn't really watch Smallville regularly so I didn't care that much to look in to why.

[@Jason_Bryant]

​@@robertstull8759 Both can be true at the same time. One TV exec can say, "Hey, this character did great, we can make a spin-off!" while another can say, "We don't want to be tied to another shoe." Like I said, it was a weak defense, not an actual good reason.

[@RamblyBear]

This is in keeping with consistent bone head decisions by WB execs. I remember when Arrow was at it's height, they literally weren't allowed to mention certain heroes. And they couldn't have crossovers with any one who also had a movie coming out. So there was a time when they teased Harley might have been on Arrow, but then it couldn't happen. All sorts of shenanigans like that. Like they couldn't trust that audiences could separate that tv shows and movies were different. Consequently this is how you knew that Warner Brothers had no faith in Zac Snyder, because they allowed Superman to finally appear on Supergirl instead of just being "my cousin" that she sometimes shares text messages with. They let Supergirl have him after Batman v Superman and about a year before Justice League released but was already mostly filmed.

[@mohammadbashammakh]

I watched the pilot and I thought it was pretty good, a shame it was never picked up

[@mortelpaolo]

Alan Ritchson is physically huge these days and would actually be an even better Aquaman if James Gunn can bring him into his new DC movie universe, now that Momoa is rumored to be playing Lobo instead.

[@Scorchy666]

The WB should have realized casting is everything. Back in 1976, a certain bionic man was reunited with his sweetheart who died in a parachute accident. Universal hired a contract player named Lindsay Wagner, then let her studio contract expire shortly after filming. She eventually agreed to return and became one of the most iconic characters on tv in the 70's. The point is that the public would never accept anyone else in this role (just watch the reboot about 15 years ago).

[@masonjones2960]

I would have watched the aquaman series,flash series,green arrow from smallville series would have been great

[@DarthDread-oh2ne]

WB and Drama go hand and hand.

[@snakekingblues3017]

this just remind me of the whole thing with Arrow tv show were they had to write off deathstroke cuz they wanted to use that character for the movies which still has not happen by the way and deathstroke was for sure one of the best thing about that series

[@miyadeen5867]

I love Alan ritchson I wish they give us a series and I still need to see Justin Hartley’s version of it

[@ryanrockers]

Aquaman was on the last episode of The Batman Podcast. He probably won't make his own.

[@travismiller1491]

He was such a good lex, id have no problem with him olaying him now in movies

[@joannemorson]

I’m so sorry, Michael that they treated you like that. It’s kind of like how they treated the cast of Power Rangers. They didn’t get paid much.

[@tripsix263]

thats cause the american cast didnt do much ALL the show was the japanese parts and all that had been bought n paid for saban and bandai were using footage from another japanese super hero show

[@joannemorson]

@@tripsix263 they were doing three episodes a day. Yes I know some of the filming was from the Japanese stuff but they got paid peanuts.

[@Tijiel]

Lets get a kickstarter page for one more season of smallville. Best CK and Luthor there was!

[@SuperBigDog2U]

WB/DC, unlike the past of Marvel, have screwed the pooch sooo many times in bad decisions on programs and movie paths and actors that are huge fan favorites to just REBOOT and go with something of less quality. I'm very glad Smallville lasted as long as it did. It was a great take on the Superman origin story going into unknown territory very successfully while bringing the lore of Superman into it as well. WB/DC really have no clue when they have lightning in a bottle. Instead they just trash it and use something less. Smallville, and all the actors that took part did an amazing job. WB/DC/CW should have appreciated your talents more and treated each of you better.

[@elementomega613]

Crazy how studios can be. Especially since Michael absolutely deserved a pay increase.

[@penneyburgess5431]

AR was amazing as Aquaman. Totally deserved at least a shot.

[@Mariannacruz444]

❤Tom well😢good afternoon you are a good actor

[@Bad_Llama]

Just stumbled on the channel. Loved the show a lot when it aired. I always wondered what the whole story was behind the stuff. I wish we had more of it, especially considering the poor quality of DC shows now.

[@clairemendoza8082]

Sad it never came to past. Love the podcast! Please have Jensen on soon! And Jane Seymour! They made season 4 awesome IMO. People ask me why I stuck around with the show as long as I did and it’s for 1 reason. Clark and Chloe’s growing bond. Was hoping they’d become more than friends but that’s just me. Chloe is as constant as the northern star. The brightest light that shines. She will save Clark from danger so many times to come. Risking her own life as well. She will go the distance. I just never saw that with Lana. Lana has amazing attributes for sure and I think more people will be more team Lana than team Chloe but it was Chloe for me from the beginning. She loved Clark the most and did more for him than Lois or Lana. There are those who will disagree with me and that’s fine but it’s my personal observation. This season Clark and Lana’s relationship really takes a massive turn for the worse. They could never get their timing right. Sad 😔 because they had lovely moments but this season wasn’t a favorite of mine because of that Clana drama we became oversaturated with from seasons 1-4. Seasons 6-8 were my favorite Smallville seasons for sure. Clark and Chloe have many I will say interesting moments in season 6 that makes the audience wonder if there is indeed something between them. Tomorrows episode “Thirst,” I have seen and Michele will definitely give it a bomb 💣 lol 😂 it’s a half rose 🌹 for me because of Carrie Fisher guest starring in it but that’s about it. Keep up the amazing work fellas ❤️❤️ So. Cal girl here!

[@pistolrx9313]

Thank you

[@hob976]

The creases in that Evil Dead poster drive me bananas... Can't you iron a poster flatter er' something?

[@PaulNightshadeMusic]

The folds are there cuz its propably an original and rare

[@hob976]

@@PaulNightshadeMusic Look, I'm sure it's signed by Robert England but it's making me bite my nails again. Maybe, if he added more backing to press it flatter against the glass, I wouldn't have to call Better Help to complain about it to a stranger... I can't afford this. I was saving that "phone call money" for a sex hotline... Now, I'm repressed. See how this can spiral???

[@channelZER01]

Seek help

[@hob976]

@@channelZER01 EXACTLY. If you can't back-mount a poster flat against the glass, SEEK HELP. Call a friend! Have someone do it for you. THANK you.... God I'm glad I'm not alone here.

[@Bunny11344]

@@hob976I can’t afford it cause I spend all my funds on food 😂😭

[@Doritoboy200live]

I saw a car with a smallville wrap on it, i tried to look in the car but didnt have my glasses LOL I wonder if it was one of you guys. Like the car was waaaaaaay too much smallville to not be you guys i was thinking lol. I was in niagara falls lol

[@GuiAntonioli]

"STUPID! THEY ARE SO STUPID! THEY ARE!" Michael being the voice of every nerd since... well, the 90's I guess.

[@jenstornell]

What!? Lex is the best played character ever.

[@Mariannacruz444]

I love the way you Where are your hat?

[@antoniodias2883]

I see WB executives being incredibly incompetent is a timeless tradition.

[@tickedoffnow]

this needs stop actors need to be treated with respect and since they are the stars, the deserve good writing and decent paychecks unbelievable that this shit has always happened and still does this will never happen when I work with an actor(my dream is to be a famous writer/director/producer/etc)

[@Pete_R]

Has Michel got his Tongue Pierced, ❓ between 3:00 & 3:10 🤔

[@Mariannacruz444]

Tom welling

[@marys1032]

Yea they did the same shit with the charmed cast and Angel and one tree hill I think, I think the network at least back then did what they could to walk over the cast and make then feel broken down and that they didn't have a voice or friends/support on the show so they could control the actors more. Messed up

[@53knight]

The more I hear about the back door dealings of entertainment. Particularly this show, really angers me. Who would want to fire the Best Lex Luther.....good for Rosenbaum!

[@bullitts]

Rosie - The Ultimate Professional = 💩 on by Hollywood 🦈🦈🦈 - Still the BEST Lex Luthor out there! ❤

[@duckmurai]

Whos the 3rd voice?

[@Alex-l1j7y]

Should have cast Reacjer for Aquaman and could have had Clark cross over for a few episodes

[@praxidescenteno3233]

The pain ever will be first for get off pain

[@Mariannacruz444]

Small ville

[@MartinPittBradley]

I think it might be illegal to IQ test mgmt, but it would help all industries

[@ShaneSkaalerud-nk2jk]

2:02 😮 oh my gosh. Was it because of popularity of the show or. The thoughts you're acting? Did you rub them the wrong way? No joke available. Serious question.

[@ShaneSkaalerud-nk2jk]

4:14 they were trying to stiff you in the money. I get it. 😢

[@alisongibbs309]

Like aqua man the arrow was good looking my daughter said ilex was not in show I would not want to it

[@hallbrawlerspodcast5091]

It sucks alan didn’t get the show. But if he got the show he may have never did blue mountain state.

[@sgtsnokeem1139]

Am I the only one who thinks he should've been on 24? Not as Jack but another CTU field agent?

[@jeremyschaber4588]

Am I the only one who finds it a little funny that the studio was screwing over the guy who was playing one of the most ruthless characters known? I get Welling was the major star but still Superman and Lex Luthor go together like peanut butter and jelly. It's like Batman and Joker. It's iconic, so it just feels terrible to hear how they kept trying to short change Rosenbaum.

[@leonelgalan9431]

Crazy cause Smallville was basically Clark and Lex smh and he played a great younger Lex.

[@alisongibbs309]

Wot about the three which s on. Tom xx

[@SyxTreasure]

Halo

[@praxidescenteno3233]

People there the last ocupation i thought is the dress

[@praxidescenteno3233]

Mr. Michael please smell as much possible yellow chilli fries and you'll get much health

[@justinwright7469]

I still think Tom Welling would have been an amazing Superman

[@praxidescenteno3233]

You'll never visited some burnt hospital and how they're dressed??? I LOVE if you'll go to help them

[@alisongibbs309]

If they got rid of u it deserter u and Clarke should rule the smallvill e I paid 70 guid every box set who got that make a new one where r u now smallville legends xxxxxxx

[@TheSuave101]

What is nothing? 😅 define nothing what they offer.

[@praxidescenteno3233]

Try never repent

[@SpideyScott72]

Is Michael's tongue pierced?

[@5150crazyfun]

I remembered hearing rumors about that and being blown away they were gonna use Justin Hartley. So Green Arrow playing Aquaman? Lol 😂 instead of the actual guy that did a phenomenal job as Aquaman. Ironically Justin Hartley I felt like should've been cast as the lead in Arrow instead of Stephen Amell. Very weird logic and casting on the CW shows.

[@alisongibbs309]

Shut up Tom haaha

[@HeroicRecaps]

After one season I stopped watching. Turning Superman into a teen drama was boring after just a few episodes.

[@alexd4066]

Probably get more views if you didn’t shit on every episode

[@hendrixlynch5918]

Is there ever anything positive spoken about on this podcast.

[@alisongibbs309]

I do not believe u

[@alisongibbs309]

This is bollocks

[@michaelsmiley15]

Wb did I think 5 pilots I read and none of them ever aired I saw clips of Aquaman and wonder woman Neither of them were any good

[@drew1928]

U know it's only a matter of time before you have Allison Mack on your podcast

[@motodog242]

Definitely would be interesting, would get them the views… she probably wouldn’t do it. Also… they’re kind of sicken by her… I’d be.

[@jasper1772]

@@motodog242 I think it would be interesting. They could just talk about the show and all that.

[@LydiaSalem]

i didnt watch the video, im not going to, podcast are TERRIBLY boring, but ive come here just to say the guy in the thumbnail looks like a young chevy chase.