The Weird Problem With the DC Universe

[@houston-coley]

If Steve Rogers checked off his list and finally watched Star Wars, would he notice a Jedi with a purple lightsaber who has a striking similarity to Nick Fury?

[@theoptimist4771]

Yeah! Finally Someone got that thought i had been thinking about since i saw the film.

[@SharpDesign]

To be fair, would you be willing to tell Nick Fury a guy in a movie looks like him?

[@d.c.stranded7134]

HoustonProductions1 to be fair the Ultimates comics also made reference to Nick Fury looking like Samuel L Jackson

[@SharpDesign]

D.C. Stranded oh, I remember and Nick Fury was asked who would play him in a movie and he said Samuel L Jackson.

[@d.c.stranded7134]

Trevor Cutler yep

[@jonathansalvador5037]

I always thought that instead of existing alongside real cities, DC cities should just take their place, and act in that role. I used to think that’s what they were doing anyway.

[@Fazzel]

Like National City seems to be Los Angeles. And I don't know if Los Angeles is ever mentioned.

[@Night-rage]

This makes more sense

[@thedude9941]

@@Fazzel yes LA has been mentioned in DC comics along with New York and Chicago, I don't really understand it myself.

[@turtleanton6539]

Yes

[@suarezguy]

I don't think DC's fictional extra cities make that much difference, real world there are already a lot of other cities that don't get much attention in Marvel (or even in a lot of pop culture generally).

[@LucasPreti]

Pretty reasonable criticism when you consider Tolkien invented fucking languages

[@bfish89ryuhayabusa]

Though, his mythology was created around those languages. He was a linguist, so crafting languages and thinking about what culture they're from was his specialty, and I wouldn't expect others to be able to pull that off. But yes, considering the depth he gave his world, it is reasonable to expect more from other creators.

[@LimeyLassen]

It's almost like comic books are pulp

[@ginge641]

The issue is that these universes were constructed in chunks by various writers over the years with different interpretations. They weren't the vision of a single writer.

[@MGSBigBoss77]

*Though, his mythology was created around those languages. He was a linguist, so crafting languages and thinking about what culture they're from was his specialty, and I wouldn't expect others to be able to pull that off.* ^Please look up; 'Marc Okrand' who invented the "Klingon language" for the Star Trek movies (Star Trek III: The Search For Spock) and later Next Generation Era TV shows?! Although to be fair, he too is a; linguist. But since you didn't mention him outright, i figured i'd bring this to your attention!

[@ToruKun1]

I feel like the DCU would be less wonky if Gotham, Metropolis, Central City, Opal City, Star City, et al., existed IN PLACE OF big cities in the US instead of alongside them.

[@zohebsaikia]

Nope DC cities r suppose to be symbolic.. What if scenarios..Gotham city is modeled around the most crime filled city..n batman is the hero of that..star city is filled with gangsters n corruption..n that's why arrow is like that..same thing goes with central city for flash n wonder womans paradise island n so on..these cities reflect the personality of their heroes..even with Superman two cities divides his morale between Smallville which is small southern farm town vs Washington DC like mega city metropolis. These places r always part of DC comics as it injects personality..they r not suppose to be our world..they reflect the hyper versions of our world

[@stuffthings9198]

That's stupid not good statement

[@thebeardedseeker5633]

for the longest time I thought Gotham city was supposed to be Chicago.

[@dakotamike]

Yeah, I always thought of Star City as Seattle, so its weird when Green Arrow leaves Star City and goes to Seattle.

[@dobi287]

It's not wonky bc they coexist

[@ToonamiT0M]

Great video. As a DC fan myself, I agree with most of your points, however... Pop culture references in these comics are not lazy writing, but shorthand. Yes, the writers at DC could create thousands of original pop culture characters, but then they would have to explain each of them every time they are used. If Nixon or Kennedy are referenced, we, the reader, know who those presidents were, what their personalities were like and their political views. If DC made up new presidents, they would have to stop the comic, and explain all that character's attributes and history, and do that every time. Yes, every time. Because every comic is someones first and to expect all readers to already have an understanding of the entire history of the universe in unrealistic. It's bad enough that knowledge of certain Heroes and major events are sometimes required to understand a current story, but adding a wholly new pop culture on top of that is unfeasible. In the clip where Barry mentions the death and resurrection of Jon Snow, that is short hand to the audience that Barry is watching hours worth of television in mere seconds. If Barry had said "Steve Rain is dead. Oh, he's alive." what is the context? Who is this character and are they liked? Is this show popular in the world, or is it obscure? Did these two events take place episodes or seasons apart or maybe they take place in the same episode? As someone who has never watched Game of Thrones, I still understood what Barry was talking about, because pop culture. I appreciate the thought you put into this video and it was enjoyable to watch, but to keep things accessible and moving forward, sometimes shorthand is necessary. Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra.

[@KEVMAN7987]

ToonamiT0M Shaka, when the walls fell.

[@toonedin]

FWIW, who the F is "Jon Snow"? I really don't know coz I ain't 'murican.

[@ToonamiT0M]

toonedin A main character from Game of Thrones.

[@dogman5028]

@@toonedin Then you don't exist.

[@verybadreviews511]

Had the same issue with that shitty Netflix movie, "Bright." Its Earth was exactly the same as ours except with fairies, and orcs, and ogres and all that, despite the fact that if fairies and orcs and ogres existed since the dawn of man, our current day would be extremely different from any non-orc,fairy,ogre current day (because of the effect those creatures would have on shaping the society/the world).

[@BostonMBrand]

I’m glad someone said it. Especially when they reference Shrek of all things, since fairy tales would probably be completely different in the world and Shrek’s existence would make little to no sense. I give props to HBO’s watchmen for actually changing the content of movies when it comes to our world compared to theirs. Although the movie’s existence wouldn’t have much of a problem in the world of Watchmen, the change of Schindler’s List to be about the show’s squid incident instead of the Holocaust at least shows some care.

[@blokey8]

@@BostonMBrand Lindsay Ellis has a really comprehensive video on it

[@BostonMBrand]

@@blokey8 thanks for the recommendation. I look forward to it!

[@generalkenobi7873]

*On the other hand, Marvel has almost 50% of it's heroes (and vilans) working/living in New York....* I mean you have Doctor Strange, Fantastic 4, all the Avengers, the Defenders... I mean, how can NYC ever be in danger with all these guys around ? (ok sometimes they're in space or in another dimension but you get the idea) I know it's the biggest city in the US but having almost half of Marvel big characters all located in the same city.... To me that's almost weirder...

[@normansmith9009]

I wonder how can there still be such things as bank heists in Marvel New York

[@moanguspickard249]

The Spectacular Batman there are thousands of cops aswell. Crime still happens. Besides, for every hero there are 2 or 3 villains so it doesnt matter if there are 300 heroes if there are 1000 villains. And besides, they cant cover that much. If each gets a 2-3 buildings to patrol nonstop so that crime doesnt happen there there are still many buildings left unattended.

[@umjackd]

Don't forget about the Great Lakes Avengers! In Milwaukee!

[@mmhoss]

Imagine what car insurance costs in New York City on Earth 616. I already pay a pretty penny for it here in real life and we sure as shit don't have any super villains or collateral like in comics. The price of insurance alone would render New York City uninhabitable by anything less than billionaires

[@possiblymaybe6711]

Half of New York is super powered

[@Outkasts156]

I've always thought of the DCU as a "yes and..?" type of universe. Like all current and past historical events happened but with extra room for DC type changes/additions.

[@DanPurcell]

I will say re: Obama, around 2011 was also the time the fabric of reality was rewritten in the DCU as Flashpoint and The New 52 happened. Also, a lot of reality warping might have caused...literally all these weird cultural shifts hahahaha

[@FlameQwert]

damn nice catch with flashpoint

[@incredibilistic]

But that would mean the city of Metropolis would cease to exist and suddenly become Manhattan, right? Does Obama actually mention any of those cities and if so how could that be? Did Gotham City, Central City or Star City suddenly change their name to real world locales or did they sustain their names? If so that means when Obama was elected about a dozen cities just appeared out of thin air, which means he would've campaigned for reelection in Gotham. Nice try but the synopsis of this video still applies. The DC universe and its characters are a mess because they're stuck in all these alternate universes but long to be culturally significant.

[@arx3516]

Maybe the DC reality sometimes bumps into ours and som things pour from our reality into the DC one.

[@redjirachi1]

You may have a point there. Obama was president in the Flashpoint Timeline, maybe it carried over

[@irrespondible]

Mmmm... yeah... let's also add that thing brought in even more of a mess.

[@ethanrichmond3992]

I feel like people are interpreting this as an “attack” of some kind in DC. I think it’s just a fun thought experiment. Just because no one liked the movies they recently made doesn’t mean we’re all out to get the comics.

[@JJSogaard]

Because on the internet people always want to be hostile. I don't know why. People always want to be negative. I always end up defending people and companies that I don't even really like because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt. At least more so than most...

[@cringekiller348]

It's just dc fanbois being toxic as usual

[@sort6726]

@@cringekiller348 bruh you're whole channel is about dissing on DC. That's just sad

[@suarezguy]

A lot of Marvel-only fans do seem to have long been pretty genuinely hostile to DC (or at least have it as being inferior), overlooking that a lot of the writers and artists have worked for, done well with both.

[@lawrencecalablaster568]

Can we also talk about how Central City somehow has a coast?

[@elichalfant941]

Lawrence Calablaster Lake's and Rivers exist you could make the explanation that it was built on water ways for trade and transportation when cars and planes didnt exist

[@lawrencecalablaster568]

Matchstick 7886 That makes sense; thanks!

[@YoungYahtz94]

Chicago has a coast too if I’m not mistaken

[@HeyMykee]

Yep - Chicago is on the shore of one of the Great Lakes - don't remember which one.

[@Keesha_Hardy]

HeyMykee Lake Michigan

[@Nemesis_T_Type]

Well the problem is superhero comics are written and drawn by different people. Some people love to drop cultural references some people don't.

[@WDSimp]

I like the idea of reading a comic that takes place in a different world, rather than ours with a bunch of superheroes shoehorned into it. Honestly wish that DC would take greater advantage of that.

[@MrEwanRoy]

uh... The New Gods would like to speak to you

[@oldmanhogan2668]

Right goofy and generic made up city names are great.

[@b.l.8755]

Swamp thing is all about hidden world's, and the otherworldliness of the rarely trodden places of our own earth. Seriously, Alan Moore Swamp Thing is just as alien as it gets. Also Green Lantern obviously also does lots of other world adventures. Sometimes Gothem gets turned into one giant prison, if that counts

[@alfa01spotivo]

@@oldmanhogan2668 yep pretty much. Better than Marvel

[@yoahboy952]

@@alfa01spotivo And yet AntMan movies are making more money than Superman movies

[@gothamite27]

Part of the fun of the Adam West Batman show was that literally everything in the world of that show was different to reality - Walter Kronkite was Walter Klondike, New York Mayor Lindsay was Gotham City Mayor Linseed, the Pentagon was the Octagon, London was Londinium etc.

[@mainstreetsaint36]

There's a Big Belly Burger in Hell, in the DC universe; Let that sink in everyone.

[@meetu_]

I guess the sales really went down ;P heheheh

[@f.i.r.e.5119]

I can't put my finger on _why,_ but I find that hard to believe. "Welcome to Hell." "Oh, you guys have a Subway here." "We _only_ have Subways." "NOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Speak up if you get the reference...

[@evildinobot]

Ok, what does that sink want now?!

[@YungM.D.]

The weirdest thing is sometimes NYC and LA don’t exist in DC, sometimes they do. It’s up to the writer it seems

[@suarezguy]

They seem to generally also exist, Kyle Green Lantern was even actually in NYC.

[@mehediamin3552]

Marvel isn't our world either. Our world doesn't have Wakanda , Genosha or Latveria. It also doesn't have faster than light travel, aliens , sentient AIs, mutants, vampires, demons, celestial beings, zombies etc.

[@nataliajagielska8871]

Mehedi Amin but Genosha or Wakanda are reclusive cities that rarely interact with US. And European or African cities could barely affect US pop culture (does Malta or Montenegro affect contemporary US pop?). Mutants have been acknowledged in the past (witch hunts, Jesus is a mutant theory, Dazzler the movie etc). It’s not perfect, but somehow makes the fabric of the world tick.

[@MrJGWilson47]

The fact that ***actual fucking magic*** exists in both DC and Marvel would drastically alter the culture and history of both fictional worlds, since you can literally just say some magic words and violate the laws of physics. It's pretty silly that this guy is focusing on the implications of a few fictional cities while ignoring the fact that people in comic books can wave a magic wand and turn you into a rabbit.

[@2muchwit]

Natalia Jagielska But thats what makes DC more relatable, gotham is a new york trying to come out of dark times to be a better place and metropolis is our dream city we build to make in real life everywhere. Thats how DCs world functions better than marvels, it actually fits in.

[@kevinjaureguy8471]

Not to mention vampires, werewolves, gods and the afterlife.

[@YoungYahtz94]

Natalia Jagielska yes but the fact that a country like Wakanda could exist in our world hidden or not is still highly unrealistic. If Wakanda was real I really don’t think it could stay completely hidden this long

[@zipgow]

You're right and wrong at the same time. This isn't like the silver age of comics, when a small amount of authors wrote the adventures of their current lineup. Nowadays, DC publishes the adventures of fifty characters at the same time. The average writer typically writes two titles at the same time, usually adventures of the same character. So, in order to establish the mythos of a single government, multiple authors would be bound by a set of limitations. While the unique mythos might be interesting, multiple titles would suffer from the limitations that have now been placed on them.

[@Pencilman246]

I know this is a super old comment but I believe that is the job of the editorial teams at Marvel and DC, to ensure there’s some kind of overarching consistency in the universes.

[@NarfiRef]

OK, but what about Wakanda and Latveria? Marvel’s geography is just as fictional.

[@timy9197]

I guess them being outside of America gives it an excuse

[@breadvelvet]

i think both of those examples are specifically super isolationist and therefore don't necessarily have a significant impact on the global culture, whereas the cities he listed in DC's geography are inextricably woven into the fabric of the country

[@kclowney97]

Both of those cities have excuses and hid themselves from the outside world, wakanda didn’t want to ruin their technological progress by hiding themselves in plain sight.

[@maitreboeuf]

If you look at how the people in the US know, care and are influenced by real countries of the same areas as Latvia or Malawi, you got the answer.

[@LoganLS0]

Ragnarok Prod Wakanda is by Uganda not Malawi.

[@AdamYJ]

"Marvel is the world outside our window." No it isn't. There are so many things in Marvel geography that also should have changed everything. What about places like Latveria, Transia, Genosha and Wakanda? What about simply the existence of the mutant race? Both Marvel and DC Universes are crazy, fantastical, different worlds.

[@RoamingAdhocrat]

Adam Hoffman The real world, by which I mean the USA, is relatively unchanged geographically. Remember the end of Hitchcock, where (spoiler alert) two people must move as far away from each other as possible so they go to opposite sides of the world - California and Florida?

[@rollotamasi13]

Hancock

[@onijester56]

To be fair, a lot of the mutant presence is relatively-recent in terms of "modern history". Mythology is filled with descriptions of people with abnormal abilities, from Gilgamesh commanding the wind against Humbaba to the godlike might of Hercules to Achilles' nigh-invulnerability. Mutant abilities often feature modified physical forms, so one could imagine Grendel in Beowulf being rooted in a Marvel-historical mutant. "Sorcerers" in the Bible, calling upon the advice of the dead...which incurs punishment from YHWH even among his favored rulers of Israel. Vampires, lycanthropes, zombies, ghost and ghouls of all sorts...across cultures and continents. Yeti and Bigfoot, the Wendigo, Goblins, the Fey and other "Fair Folk"...bringing magic and mystery to explain in the real world what is unexplained and in the Marvel universe would have gone above the comprehensive and explanatory abilities of ancient, classical, and even more-modern peoples. ----- Not to say that things should be exactly the same...but the fictional world doesn't have to have diverged from ours 10,000 years ago. Pinning a 100-year or 150-year point of divergence and keeping general brush-strokes for another 80 or 90 years makes sense given how humans respond to things AND allows the work to present a familiar world (thus not needing a several dozen lectures towards the audience on the world depicted) while still being distinctly fictional.

[@Jotari]

Only America counts as the real world...apparently.

[@poppers7317]

There's a world beyond America? But there be dragons!

[@TalysAlankil]

Didn't Obama just become president after the new 52 reboot of the DC Universe, which erased things like Luthor ever being president from history? Also when you bring up The Flash show; that also takes place in its own continuity. I'm not saying your points are moot, I would also prefer if they embraced being a separate universe. Just that the details hurt your overall point.

[@meetu_]

T R U E

[@chrisborgia7838]

But marvel isn’t our world. It has slightly more similar geography but latveria and wakanda would have TREMENDOUS impact on the world. In the comics wakanda killed the global economy at one point. So ANY discontent pop culture references cause you in DC media should equally take you out of marvel media

[@z7983]

Why would it have tremendous impact on our world when Wakanda was literally hidden for centuries ? Why does it matter anyway ? It has no government, no one is gonna interfere with them. Same for Latveria. Whereas Gotham city and Metropolis are under US president and should affect the culture massively. Marvel IS our world, DC is just random fiction and they should embrace that.

[@panaproanio]

​@@z7983 That's...dumb. Not trying to offend you, but you're basically saying that if it's not in the U.S. it has no cultural or economic impact on the world. Suddenly the most advanced civilization of the planet by a huge margin is in the middle of Africa, yet the world is pretty much the same? Yeah, no.

[@z7983]

@@panaproanio No, I'm saying if its own country completely devoid of the world then it won't have any cultural impact. Yeah no shit the world is pretty much the same, Wakanda was in the hiding for centuries.

[@RandomBlackGamer]

Ultimate Marvel is more our world than Prime Marvel.

[@jimpavlidis5915]

This is nerdiest video you've ever done

[@jaygon8656]

That's why its awesome

[@WednesdaysSerial]

I would say the Aquaman videos were nerdier.

[@agrainofsun]

Actually... I think this works for marvel too. There are too many differences with our world (like savage land, aliens, wierd metals, earth-sized cataclysms etc.) to not make any impact on politics or pop culture

[@MrPtrlix]

The Martian, the film at least, would likely not exist because the Marvel NASA would have much better technology by then.

[@troyoboyo17]

Patrick, I respect you and I really like your work, but this just feels ridiculous. This isn't just a DC thing. It's not even a comic book thing. This is how it is with pretty much *every single fictional universe* (that is set in a modern "real world" setting). The events of the MCU would drastically change the world as we know it (aliens, robots, Gods, people would go bananas). The things we learn in Men in Black drastically change the world as we know it (pretty much every single celebrity/politician is an alien). Kingsman drastically changes the world (there's a whole other govt agency in both the UK and US, plus like half of the population is gone). Basically what I'm saying is that this isn't a DC thing. So why make it about DC? DC never tries to tell you this is the real world, there's fucking Atlantis for God's sake, which would absolutely change everything. The whole city of Seattle was burned to the ground to become Star City. That's next level shit that would probably cause for a national crisis. But it doesn't because that's just how it is. Also apart from Star City (only in Rebirth) it's never actually known the exact locations of the DC fictional cities, as it varies from reboot to reboot and writer to writer.

[@PharaohDom]

troyoboyo17 all this, man.

[@weirdTedE91]

I mean with infinite universes, who's to say that EVERYTHING has to be different and that there can't be similarities? Boy, Patrick's not gonna like my next novel which is a mix of Fictional/Real Life Cities.

[@elichalfant941]

troyoboyo17 Gothams most likely to be in New Jersey

[@FanboyFilms]

Matchstick 7886 I thought Bludhaven was in Jersey and Gotham was across the state line in New York. Or is Bludhaven no longer around post-Flashpoint?

[@stevepenn2582]

I cant believe this is the same guy who went on to make the plot holes don't matter video. Really gets the noggin joggin

[@swng314]

You can ask these same questions of any fictional universe, Marvel included.

[@Blizzic]

Oh my god this filmmaker style of video essay is unbelievably engaging, where have you been all my life

[@silentjohnny4988]

I agree. I dont even care if I agree with him or not. I'm too perplexed by the video.

[@dogwaterjoe3783]

Literally had this conversation with my brother. DC needs to embrace being a separate world, similar but also very different from our world. That's part of the charm of DC, it's not our world. They need to embrace that in comics and movies/t.v. shows.

[@1080TJ]

3:15 If Jennifer Lopez exists in the DC universe, does that mean Gigli exists? How does Batfleck play into that? 🤔

[@Raider768]

Dude you always comment on all the videos I watch and you have Strange Mercy as your profile pic (maybe you're madly in love with Annie Clark too?). I think we should be best friends.

[@BlueisNotaWarmColour]

You better appreciate this new friend

[@ayylmao4806]

TJ Hastie comics are set in different universe than films

[@bigstunna2049]

Hhhmmmmm🤔🤔🤔 asking the real questions

[@maxhydekyle2425]

Affleck existing wouldn't be a problem. It's like how if Captain America gets around to watching the star wars prequels he wouldn't say why did Nick Fury act in this? He'd just say wow that guy looks a lot like Nick.

[@f1nger605]

In the late 90s Superman Animated series, Metropolis bares a striking similarity to San Francisco and costal California. It's surrounded by mountains, plenty of costal cliffs, has a prison on an island in the middle of a bay, and the sun is shown setting over the ocean.

[@TheGoldSwordSquad]

Also when you consider that time in the DC universe is passing as it is in real life e.g the passing of presidents but the characters do not age in real time

[@coreylucas5346]

HYPERTIME BITCHES!!

[@troyoboyo17]

That's the same for Marvel too. Spider-Man has been in his twenties since like the 70s

[@doctorhandsome]

Savage Dragon is the only superhero comic I can think of that progresses in more or less real time with the characters aging.

[@atomicamerican7]

Actually, although not set in modern times, Judge Dredd ages every year he's in print. I think he's in his seventies at this point.

[@doctorhandsome]

Cool. Did not know that.

[@vincentsartain3061]

Does anyone remember when early Fantastic Four issues used "Central City, CA" as the birthing place of the team after plunging back to earth from being bombarded by cosmic rays? IIRC Central City was later retroactively renamed Stockton, CA -- the town where I grew up.

[@guicaldo7164]

One can see you're a fan of Edgar Wright. Your transitions are smooth and creative. I like it!

[@williamceyrolles4914]

While I am not saying your logic is wrong, its weird that you stop there when, if that's the way you think, its a very slippery slope to just hating everything about comics. Why is it ok with you then to see regular cars and today's technology when in these universes, Vibranium, Iron man armor, alien technology and a hundred other factors have been around for years and years. At least in J.Lo's case, there IS still a decent possibility she can still exist and in the same capacity. Or if you added up every Batman adventure and said "ok.. each one of those counts as a day".. he would still be an old man by now. and some of those stories took weeks. I always hated the mirror universe type stories in Star Trek where everything is the same but everyone is evil. If everyone had 180 personality switches, why are they all living in the same places, falling for the same people, having the same jobs, etc for generations and generations? None of the same bloodlines would even exist in that world. If celebrities existing in the DCU bothers you, I can think of a dozen way more obvious things in comics that should have sent you running away screaming by now.

[@z7983]

He's not hating, he's just pointing something out, he's giving his own opinion. Don't be salty about it.

[@rbbecker73]

I love how that was handled by the short lived America's Best Comics. Their Earth was basically what our Earth would look like if the type of super-technology of Marvel/DC had started showing up in the mid-20th century, like it did it in the DC/Marvel comics. So for instance, flying cars and holograms were everyday technology by the 90s, when the comics were published and took place, since superheroes and supervillains introduced them decades earlier.

[@sticks4632]

Its because non of it matters. Its litteralt the defention of nit picking. They arnt exploring the alternet universe they are telling a story where an alien becomes a superhero. Thats the focus. Not whether car should in a world with Gotham in it.

[@williamceyrolles4914]

@@z7983 I wasn't being salty or saying he was hating. Just pointing out that once you start saying "that wouldn't work", you will start seeing that a hundred other things wouldn't either. Thats just the nature of comics. So best to just overlook it

[@RK-ep8qy]

But what about Roxxon and Stark Industries? Wouldn’t you say they’re similar to LexCorp and should have an influence over America but doesn’t?

[@iluvearth99]

Ropsana Khanom they do in-world though. I don't know about Roxxon, but Stark tech has had influence in the marvel world. Its missiles are used for war in the middle east, its technology is widespread (on the scale- or even beyond the scale- of apple). There are scenes of people before congress where they answer for this

[@scs54]

Well Roxxon is based on Exxon mobil and Stark Industries is private investigation.

[@GregoriusTheBrown]

But the point being made is that, in the video, he suggested the existence of businesses like LexCorp should have changed things like record labels more than they seem to, when Marvel has the exact same problem.

[@iluvearth99]

Gregory Bronson they don't really though, that's what we're (or at least I'm) saying. The movies already show Stark Industry's affects. The changes in the Marvel universe aren't as big as those in the DC universe, so the waves made by them don't go as far

[@GregoriusTheBrown]

Okay, that's fine. I'm not saying that the companies depicted in Marvel would necessarily have wide-reaching effects beyond what is depicted. But that IS what Patrick is saying about DC companies. And if he's going to make that argument, what's good for the goose is good for the gander.

[@serugolino7867]

Imagine a DCEU with 1920 estetic but modern technology where every superhero franchise(batman, superman, flah) has a different tone but somehow it is all consitent inbetween films.

[@guyr3618]

You can fanwank all of these questions away, by simply saying that (for example) Obama of the DC universe is not the Obama of the real world. Like, he has the same name, and he looks the same, and he has all of the same attributes that are necessary for the sake of his role in the story, but he's different in all of the OTHER ways, the ways that keep the universe consistent. Also - for the love of god, do NOT tell writers to put more care into this kind of stuff. They have ENOUGH trouble getting everything else right (character, theme, etc).

[@DrMadd]

Guy R What’s wrong with telling writers to be more thoughtful about what they’re writing? If anything that’s advice any writer should take.

[@guyr3618]

Nothing wrong with telling them to be more thoughtful in general, of course. I just don't think it's a good idea to be more thoughtful about THIS issue specifically. This is the tiniest of nitpicks, after all (Patrick himself acknowledged this), so it's best not to focus on it.

[@theitalianalien8477]

I agree with every single word you said

[@mechasatsu6214]

look what lazy writings have brought to the cinematic universe.

[@Shakiahjprod]

Jhaedi Avila Yeah they were too focused on having real life news people instead of story lol

[@InReserveProductions]

This video reminded me of a conversation I had with my uncle when he brought up that his biggest problem with the 1989 Batman film was when Bruce Wayne said "I'm not one of those Ted Bundy types." citing how it's a different universe with different events and cultures, yet somehow they managed to have the same serial killers. It's overthinking and nitpicking at its finest quality but also valid criticism.

[@cenedra20]

This totally reminds me of Lindsey's video about "Bright", where she explains how the real-world references go so far that they don't make sense. "Slapping magnets on a refrigerator" she called it. Honestly, I thing the DC *does* care about world-building, but it's easier to mention something everybody already knows from the real world (like Kim and Kanye) instead of coming up with your own TV stars - since you need to establish them first in a way that will register with the reader, and that takes too many "time" (pages?) for something as unimportant as a throwaway joke.

[@Rikard_Nilsson]

There are entire countries in the DC Universe that don't exist, along with pop culture stars, phone producers (Queen industries produces the Q-phone for example which is an analogue of Iphones) etc. etc. Is it so hard to believe that some things is different and others aren't, at least on the surface? Hell, a few issues ago the moon was blown up and earth was sent into the phantom zone.

[@loganagle746]

A lot of the problems mentioned here can be explained by a fictional scientific principle common to Alternate History fiction as well as other forms of fiction dealing with Time Travel, Multiple Universes Alternate Earths and a lot of the fiction you mentioned here: The Law of Temporal Inertia. It essentially operates as the counter-point to the Butterfly Effect. The idea is that even with tremendous Points of Divergence between universes that parallel realities will tend to gravitate towards having similarities. This means that even in radically different universes (such as ones defined by the presence or absence of super-heroes), many details may be the same (such as what musical artists become popular or who becomes a TV news anchor) and even major events can stay the same (such as the same candidate running for, and winning, the office of President of the United States). This same principle is at play in Alternate History fiction where, for example, the Confederacy wins the American Civil War, which would logically drastically change countless later marriages, business investments, population movements, etc., but more than a century later you still have the presence of figures like JFK, Nixon, Martin Luther King Jr., etc., but merely existing under altered circumstances rather than being wiped from that version of history as a result of the Butterfly Effect.

[@MaxIsRight]

Say what you will about the DCU's political landscape - as a Vermonter, I will never not be stoked about Senator Patrick Leahy's FIVE Batman film appearances :D

[@Jijijijijij5]

This issue can be easily solved with the whole multi verse thing though can't it? There are an infinite series of earths with infinite combinations of different events. There are tons of earths where the Kardashians aren't a thing but on this one they happen to (unfortunately). It's a weird coincidence that Obama gets elected after all those fictional presidents, but with infinite universes it's bound to happen like that in at least some of them.

[@pjtiger10]

It bothers me when smart characters talk about their multiple PhDs. Nobody needs 7 PhDs....

[@applpie3090]

Marvel characters sure "wuv da science."

[@oldmanhogan2668]

aPpl pie isnt that awful? Science is so stoopid

[@onijester56]

Actually... First, each 'Doctorate' tends to signify a general sub-field. A PhD in quantum mechanics is distinct from a PhD in crystal chemistry. A lot of interdisciplinary science, sure the PhD level may be a tad extreme...but it's a quick shorthand instead of specifying 3 Bachelor of Science degrees, 1 Bachelor of Art, 2 Master of Science, 1 Master of Business Administration, an MD, and a PhD. Second, personally I see even non-scientific graduate programs as useful in the world. Yes, a PhD in genetic biochemistry or whatever you want to call the program could give you the knowledge to change the core RNA sequence of a newly-discovered bacterium so that it can spread a lethal disease. A PhD in American History, or Chinese/Mongolian History, or European History, or some stream of Ethics or Logic can help the character realize ahead of time that maybe they shouldn't recklessly play god just because they think they can since lethal diseases tend to kill lots of people including the people who attempt to weaponize them in the first place. And don't tell me that there isn't someone in your life who you wish would actually use logic even once in a while...or that you haven't had a boss you thought was being unethical or immoral and wished would learn to not be so selfish and closed-minded.

[@ruprecht8520]

Bet New Yorkers in the DC universe are glad Gotham and Metropolis are the ones getting trashed all the time by super-villains.

[@ilikecake48]

Isn't it rather unfair to say that throwaway pop references 'break' the DCU when you could argue that the existence of many Marvel Characters could have consequences that are so significant that their role in the world could have an impact similar to the existence of Metropolis/Gotham in the DCU? The DCU only pulls from the real world without actually making substantive use of it when it comes to things as trivial as geography or which ever suit happens to be the president, same with Marvel. Furthermore, rationalising stuff like this could go anyway you want it to, you could say that the process that turned Parker into spiderman could be replicated and thus the fact that spiderman is special in any way is preposterous in a universe populated with great minds that could easily do just that. I'm not breaking the MU by saying that, I'm just playing up meaningless doubts.

[@RickGenis]

ilikecake48 Exactly correct.

[@b.l.8755]

That's why there are dozens of spider powered heroes now. It's easy, if you know the secret. Also the Spider Island event, the upcoming spidergeddon... Good writers think about these sorts of things and address them. Sometimes in an offhand remark, and sometimes they change the story to accommodate or take advantage of them.

[@B3n3f1t]

I will now tell you what my dad told me when I was 13: „Boy, you are reading too much comics!“ ;P

[@bigollytg]

The wierdest reference was in legends of tommorow when Jax references Spider-Man as a fictional character.

[@KEVMAN7987]

Olly George Marvel comics exist in DC comics?

[@YoungYahtz94]

Or when Aunt May tells Spider-Man he’s not Superman

[@toonedin]

Inception comics?! :P

[@oldmanhogan2668]

It's not weird at all just because a bunch of dorks fight over which company is better doesnt mean the actual employees of the companies dont get along both are based in new York and they all know and talk to each other.

[@WillNelson73]

If we are thinking that hard about it, the MCU New York has been invaded by aliens yet everyone seemingly has just gone on with life as usual

[@z7983]

Yeah coz they have seen their heroes protect them, it would make no sense for them to move to other cities where there are no heroes to protect them

[@JusticeDivineAllah]

What about Jump City??? Teen titans not getting that love.

[@ukiyasenpai]

Justice Divine-Allah In the comics, the Teen Titans are often based in New York and San Francisco. Jump City is just exclusive for the cartoon.

[@dixonb.tweenerlegs4225]

Justice Divine-Allah They're in San Francisco.

[@joncarroll2040]

2024 offers the answer to the 2016 question...

[@AlexLove631]

I love how you visually referenced The Question when you asked if you were thinking too much of this, cause that's who I was thinking of lol I like the references because then their world feels a little bit more real to me. I just think of it as a parallel universe where some things are different (metahumans) and some things are the same (tv hosts, popular chain restaurants). But it's still really fascinating to think about. Made me think of the butterfly effect and how that'd factor in. Also, that ending was hilarious!

[@ThoughtBundle]

The Delaware correction was well done. Also, great video. Love the channel, thanks!

[@Vladdie777]

This is great, love the framing device and it's obviously self-aware of the nerdy nitpicking.

[@2nd3rd1st]

1:24 I like how you say Delaware: Your voice says Delaware, but your mouth says "Baltimore". Your eyes say "take me home with you". And your body says "but don't touch me".

[@maxscribner1743]

You should raise the reverb on your ADR to match location reverb

[@Sizdothyx]

The proximity of Gotham and Metropolis in the DC Universe is weird. Metropolis should almost certainly be a land-locked city if we're going to bring up Kansas being a drive away. At the same time, Gotham is definitely based on New Jersey.

[@Sosenimi]

When DC uses real-life figures and references I usually don't notice since I'm not American I often don't know what is a real brand or person and what is a fiction made for the fictional universe. A good example is actually the recent Power Rangers movie where many reviews complained about the product placements but when I saw it I didn't notice the product placements because I had never heard of them before so I thought they were fictional brands made for the movie. Coltural knowlege is a weird thing huh?

[@toonedin]

I felt the same but you expressed it much more civilly than me. Thanks bro

[@BelartWright]

Wow! What a load of bull to focus this problem on DC when Marvel has Latveria, Wakanda, Genosha, Sokovia, & Madripoor.

[@rj2swag791]

Dc has khandaq, a middle Eastern country ruled by an ancient god man(black Adam), markovia, quraq, vlatava, kasnia etc etc. They even have south and north rhelasia to mimick south and north Korea, while at the same time the 2 Koreas also exist in their world. Sit down

[@BelartWright]

@@rj2swag791 Sit down!? Did you even watch the video? I'm not saying who has more, but this person said that Marvel basically has no fictional cities or countries on Earth and I just listed a handful. I think its you who needs to sit down. This comment seems to have went over your head.

[@dogman5028]

Exactly!

[@Cursed_Mark]

@@BelartWright "but this person said that Marvel basically has no fictional cities or countries on Earth" {citation needed}

[@BelartWright]

@@Cursed_Mark Watch the vid

[@jalapenoofjustice4682]

This is why retcons where histories are merged bother me. You can't just pick and choose what's canon and what isn't because it's all connected. The recent superman reborn is particularly bad about this because it merges the pre end post-flashpoint universes but only for superman. Death of superman is apparently still canon even though every character who appears in it has a completely different history now.

[@ChadBenjamin]

Actually, both Batman and Green Lantern kept their original history too when the New 52 happened.

[@kannakamui2334]

This reminds me of Nostalgia Critics video essay on the movie bright. I understand your arguments and yes merging aspects of the real world with a fictional verse but it is important to know that these worlds have been contributed and interpreted by many writers. I don't have a problem with the presence of real world figures. It feeds into fun pondering as to how the world would be with characters such as Superman and Batman. I think it would be better to leave things such as the things you said to suspension of disbelief rather than being pedantic and take depth or flexibility from the world because than that would just take the fun out of it. This video was quite well done though. You're a very insightful reviewer.

[@NishatEqbal]

An amalgation of the real world and the fictional world is still a valid fictional world. The criticism of continuity doesnt make sense because if the writers dont want to indulge in the amalgation aspect they are free to do so as its still a valid alternate universe. The only good point made here is that if they delved into making the world more intricate there would be more interesting possibilities for stories. But your point of continuity error doesnt make sense

[@sticks4632]

Like it doesnt matter that gothem is im new jersey it just matter what goes on in gothem. Its not plot relevant.

[@Klee99zeno]

There are also some fictional countries in the DC universe earth, like Kadaq, and Cordo Maltese. This makes us wonder, if Kadaq is a middle Eastern Arab country, how was it involved in global politics.? Was Kadaq part of one of the colonial empires of Europe? Did Kadaqi forces fight Israel in any of the Arab-Israeli wars? Are there militant Islamic terrorist groups in Kadaq? Does Cordo Maltese have a b8g tourist industry like most of the Caribbean islands?

[@sketchygirl18]

This is why I love reading things like "#gotham is trending" by wwwlw on ao3. Because (even though it's fanfic) it gives us a peek into the lives of regular people living in the DC Universe's cities.

[@Stathio]

I can break your whole video with one word. Wakanda.

[@NikaHollywood]

LOL. I watched this video right after the one about nit picking "plot holes," which is kind of what's going on here.

[@themediaangel7413]

Very good point.

[@sticks4632]

those video are both wrong yet simultaneously contradict each other.

[@charliemike5097]

The only problem with the DCEU is that they accept scripts from writers who don't understand the characters. In Man of Steel, Superman would have led or outright dragged Zod out into space where the battle wouldn't have racked up so much collateral damage, for example. Dark in itself isn't necessarily a problem. All I ask is that the writer have some concept of the characters being written about.

[@kevinhill8193]

The answers to all your questions are a) but it did anyway b) but it didn't anyway. This whole thing is not necessary. Unlikely and improbable things happen anyway.

[@MorganSea]

it's a very nice detail that in the post video talk you have a purple light on your left side and the box promoting other videos is also purple, like its what is lighting you... its very nice.

[@scromfo]

That show, "The Flash" seems to have more DC Universe inconsistencies than the others. The thing that takes me out of the illusion the most is when they make reference to Marvel comics; and they have, multiple times.

[@lukedelrosario5881]

They've also made a reference to DC lol. When Cisco makes a "Flash signal", he says he saw it in a comic book once.

[@smallseal17]

So in 2010, they had a story in the Superman books called "War of the Supermen", in which Kryptonian baddies tried to take of the world. And one of the tactics they used was to send an assassin to murder world leaders. And soon afterwards, Barack Obama made his DCU debut. Now, considering that they blew up the universe soon afterwards, they never had to adress my theory that Obama was Suarez' VP. And they don't now. But I still think I'm right. (And also, yes, the existence of other cities does grant carte blanche to rewrite the political landscape of the DCU. To play into what Grant Morrison called the 'social science fiction' side of comics. And that'd be fun? But oh well.)

[@ComicPower]

The answer is because comics. And you just move on from there.

[@AnimatedASMR]

This is the exact problem Oceans Twelve created. If, "Hey, she looks like Julia Roberts! Let's use that for our heist!" was true; wouldn't each of them turn to each other and exclaim, "Hey! You look like George Clooney! And you Brad Pitt! And I look like Matt Damon!"

[@mosesrb]

Lol, DC is more relatable not materealistically but ideologically. What a hypocrisy when dc try to incorporate real world elements you complain and if they don't you complain . And don't forget DC is a huge multiverse....so anything is possible.

[@alexturlais8558]

maybe since our world is the 'normal' timeline, all of these timelines seem to resemble ours because thats the natural tendency for the universe to be so it tries to reach equilibrium. Its why mirror or parallel universes are so similar - the universe is trying to correct itself.

[@adrianaadrian6759]

National city is real though, it's by San Diego

[@Fazzel]

Except that National City has a population of 61,147 and the comic book version has a population of millions.

[@JPKloess]

Nice attention to detail by making the light source in your end card the same color as the panel in the direction the light is coming from.

[@8ulls3y3]

"IT DOESN'T MAAAATTEEEER!!!"

[@Insane-Howl-Cowl]

Back in high school I wrote a contrast paper. For me the difference between Marvel and DC was that in Marvel everyone is a mutant, in DC everyone was an alien.

[@tarunvarma8126]

Awesome video bro

[@Rafael_Peixoto]

As a person who is not from the USA, the locations of marvel and DC differ in other way to me... I'm not familiar to US cities, so they seem kinda lame compared to the stylized Gotham and Metropolis

[@TheCelticTiger32]

Doesn't matter. In an infinite amount of universes, you have an infinite amount of outcomes. The DC main continuity universe could just be the variable that so happens to have a very similar political and cultural landscape, even with the altered geography.

[@vivianimbriotis8105]

Infinite possibilities is distinct from all possibilities. For example, the set {1,3,5,7...} of odd numbers contains infinitely many elements, but not a single element that is divisible by two.

[@user-wo5dm8ci1g]

I had this exact same rant at a friend, sparked by a one-off reference comment in the Spiderverse trailer, specifically "Wait til you see comicon". Sure, its a trailer about a bunch of spider people, but this is the sort of thing that makes me regard the the MCU as "shallow world building". What I mean is that the world building is only in service to the immediate plot and characters and otherwise the implications of the events on the world are meant to be disregarded, and just assumed that it somehow is miraculously identical to its template world. The same problems happen with fantasy wizards in mostly untouched medieval settings, for example. Anyways, I am glad to have a fellow crazyperson who feels the same way as I do about these things.

[@lunaaurora3994]

Into The SpiderVerse isn't part of the MCU

[@ryanratchford2530]

I understand why this little thing might bug you, but after watching your last Jedi video, I’m really surprised the aweful worldbuilding & backgrounds of characters of the new trilogy wasn’t brought up? What is the first order? How strong are they? How much of their resources was destroyed with star killer base? If they where just a small military faction how come they’re so powerful in Last Jedi right after Star Killer was destroyed? What was the new republic & why didn’t it have a proper army to fight the First Order? Why did no other star system government react when First order destroyed the 5 planets (The republic couldn’t have all just been on those planets- there’s an entire galaxy) Where is the Galaxy of Star Wars in the new trilogy? It’s just a bunch of planets with no communication while the inconsistent first order operates. Who was Snoke? Seriously. Where did this extremely powerful force user come from, where was he during the previous events of the Original trilogy & possibly prequels & beyond? How did he just become in charge of the first order? How did he learn about the main OG characters? (Han, Luke & Leiah all seemed to know about him seducing Kylo, but what actually happened?) How did snoke turn Kyle to the dark side? When Luke sensed darkness inside Kylo & tried to kill him, knowing Snoke has gotten to him, how did Snoke do this if Kylo was still a Jedi in Luke’s new order? The 2 movies explains nothing about these hugely important plot elements & it’s painful to have to watch them make no attempt to make Star Wars feel like there’s a real world behind the new trilogy.

[@dogman5028]

Dude, when you said "seduce Kylo", I imagined him opening his robe in front of Kylo. 😂

[@jasonregimbal-kung6154]

Oh boy. Two points: 1) DC comics are NOT consistent with themselves. If you don't dig deep, I guess things hold up alright, but if you scratch the surface even just a little bit you wind up with absurdities like Batman having 4 Robins, including his 10 year old son and two others who are now adults within a career of about 7 years. And the properties of Kryptonite are not consistent. At all. 2) Maybe Marvel's geography is better, but don't they also have mutants? Doesn't that poke a big hole in their own fictional history? Why does this get a pass?

[@johnprina8920]

You are way over thinking this dude. Comics are from top to bottom a suspension of disbelief.

[@TheCelticTiger32]

You could also argue that the emergence of real superheroes and villains in the Marvel universe, would also significantly change the cultural landscape there also. Think about it, celebrity culture would be completely different. Why would we idolise sports stars or mere pop singers, when we could idolise a man who can leap from the empire state building unharmed? Some celebrities might'nt have even risen to such prominence due to being out shun by the likes of iron man, as hearing about the weekly exploits between supervillians and heros in space or other dimensions, would be much more entertaing. So basically, just because Marvel is set in the "real world", it should be considered just as fictional a reality, as the DC universe. The cultural landscape would be vastly different with superheroes in it period

[@MrChupacabra555]

I think its because of the movies that the DC Universe is messed up, city wise. I was always under the impression that the 'DC Cities' were just stand ins for real world cities: Metropolis/New York, Gotham/Chicago, Coast City/San Francisco. It was BvS that decided to for no good reason put Gotham a stone's throw away from Metropolis. You may mention this (too impatient to not reply until I've seen the whole thing ^_^),but in the old "Avengers vs JLA" limited series, when Superman and crew arrive on Marvel Earth, one of the things he says is that DC Earth seems a bit bigger than Marvel Earth, maybe just to allow for all the real cities (and countries) to exist alongside the fictional ones.

[@kristopherawojobi7745]

It was never a thing that DC Cities were stand-ins. And there was a reason for Gotham's proximity to Metropolis but still fuck that.

[@weldsj8847]

Comic Commons yes. Metropolis is supposed to be Chicago. I'll stick with comics continuity over a recent movie any day.

[@clarisacalderon9555]

Aren't they farther away? Bruce always seems to take a plane there in the cartoon. though superman being able to quickly fly there always messed it up. I actually thought metropolis was Chicago....maybe because its a little closer to Kansas that way. totally agree on san franciaco being coast city.

[@edraith]

Metropolis and Gotham are both mythological counterparts of New-York and they are close to New York. It's always been like that.

[@MrChupacabra555]

Edraith: Yeah, but I can also see how you can see Gotham as a analogue to "Mob Era Chicago" simply due to its many mobs that control the underworld, and its non-super human crime riddled nature (Bat Rogue Gallery pun unintentional ^_^)

[@debrachambers1304]

Fun fact: Gotham and Metropolis are both names for New York City

[@GlauberTheNerd]

That was a very interesting argument and video but if having a few more big cities would change so much of culture and politics wouldn't having superpowered beings impact it much more making any mention of current culture and politics incoherent anyway?

[@harryjackson2215]

I find it weird how John Stewart was presenting the daily show in BvS when Trevor Noah was actually presenting it irl in 2016

[@redgravet]

Did you dub over Baltimore? 🤨 Also, I thought Metropolis was supposed to be in Kansas.

[@MrDepechefan1]

Kal El yeah I think this is kind of a weird video on account of cities being where you need them in a given comic, I think in a Betty and Veronica and Harley and Ivy comic book Riverdale is a suburb of Gotham city (which I realize is an Archie/DC crossover comic)

[@kaguya6900]

The problem is, with both companies, but in this case with DC, you have some twenty to thirty writers all doing stories. Some of them are going to write plots that affect the entire nation. Somebody's going to call the president. In that case what do you do? You have, maybe, half a page to give that president characterization. You can use whatever fictional president DC has at the moment, but know that most of your audience will not be familiar with who that president is. And if previous characterization gives that president quirks, you'll need to cram them in in that half a page to maintain continuity, knowing it will make zero sense to most of your audience. You can put in "generic late-middle-aged white man" like almost every single action film ever does, or you can use Obama knowing that your entire audience will understand his character without any dialog whatsoever. You've got half a page, what do you do?

[@VC_029]

You forget that one time green-goblin Norman Osborn became the president in marvel

[@billhickswasgreat3421]

Why bother to suggest DC is different than Marvel when a world where a Helicarrier is capable of a continuous sub-orbital flight is just as radically different from ours as the DC one?

[@adamhadlock2612]

Hey Patrick, you seem like a cool dude. Good job being a cool dude

[@JamesW6179]

It's so fucking weird Metropolis is in fucking Delaware.

[@Musicapop2]

I have no problem with that.

[@joelwills8712]

What bugs me as well is that there are Spider-Man references in Jessica Jones, like they say 'With great power comes great responsibility' when Spider-Man exists in this very universe that they're talking about, so would Jessica Jones have read a comic book about Spider-Man and if so why does a vigilant super-hero have his own comic book in that universe that was also made in the sixties but this is ridiculous because why would he have his own comic book, so how does Jessica Jones know of this saying? Does Spidey say it then it becomes the title of a news headline in a newspaper, it makes no goddamn sense for her to know the philosophical message of a fictional character that exists in her world. And also Luke Cage mentions Ripley from Alien, who also played the MAIN VILLAIN in the last show that he was on, wouldn't he have seen a similarity between that girl and Ripley since they're the same actor. IT MAKES NO FRICKIN SENSE.

[@ron87SBP]

way more people in the MCU should be concerned about Thor's existence and the resulting implications.