Real World 3D Printing with the Elegoo Mars 4 Ultra 9k

The Mars 4 Ultra 9k Resin Printer from Elegoo is great. But lets have a realistic looking at what it takes to get there. From setting up the printer to the environment you actually have available to print. 3D printing is not as simple as pouring in resin and hitting print. Sadly.
Lets get you set up and printing in your cold garage so you don't have to print in your house.
Thanks to Elegoo who very kindly supplied the Mars 4 Ultra and the Mercury Plus 2 Wash an Cure machine.
ELEGOO Mars 4 Ultra 9k
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Elegoo Mercury Plus 2 Wash and Cure
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Elegoo Mercury XS Bundle
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Printer Enclosures (pick the one that works for your space and budget)
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Black Nitrile Gloves [100 Count]
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Electric Heater, 1500W Energy Efficient, visible temp thermostat
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Creality extraction fan
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Silicon slap mat and funnels
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Funnel for IPA
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Pickle Jars for rinsing prints
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Pickle Jar for hot water support removal
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Isopropyl Alcohol (5L)
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(although any 99% IPA will do)
UV clip on curing lamp (USB)
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#3dprinting #elegoo #resinprinting #TabletopGaming
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[@Cha1k]

For a video I thought was going to be a not so subtle advertisement for a 3d printer, this turned out to be refreshingly informative as someone seriously considering about getting into 3d printing, thank you

[@thestateofplay2023]

I advertise in my day job. On KZbin I try to inform. 🤣

[@sf-studio]

3d printing has gotten so much easier compared to previous years. Exposure settings are easy to find online and in my experience they're set and forget across multiple resins. I've switched to water washable to reduce fumes and ease of clean up, but still give the models a final rinse in IPA before curing and I can use the IPA for way longer than I could with standard resin. I started painting minis a few months ago and used 3d printed ones to practice on because I didn't want to muck up the $60 pathfinder team I bought. In fact my Tau are still in the box and I bought an army from OPR for $50 instead. Considering a bottle of resin is $20 and I can get an entire army and then some out of it, I don't see myself buying GW models in the near future.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I can’t say i blame you as it’s a direction I’m finding myself moving in!

[@Old_Wizard_Minis]

I don't play any GW games, however their sculpts are top notch. I frequently see their non space marine stuff and say "ohhh I want to paint that". But plenty of stl makers are catching up. OPR, Loot, AV, Den, etc. An elegoo mars and an OPR subscription will keep one in models for years at the cost of a couple GW boxes.

[@Glennsights]

My friend just up and gave me his Mars 2 and his Ender v2 a week ago. He never printed a thing with them. So this video is almost perfectly timed. I learned a few things. Thank you.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Ooh. Nice! Enjoy printing some cool stuff!

[@Nethezbet]

My first was a donated Mars 2 as well, definitely MUCH slower, I think I was around 9 second exposure time, but just got the one in the video so I am hoping it is better. That old Mars 2 made me a LOT of stuff though, had a bearing not broken I'd still be using it. Solid device.

[@fomasfaith]

A most honest and balanced take on 3D printing. I too long for the day where you just pick what you want and press print. I do understand that for some it is a hobby in and of itself but I just want nice models. I have gone down that very same rabbit hole only to discover I had to go just that 'little' bit further, first a flexible plate to make removal easier, then an enclosure and a heater. Ireland also not known for its high temperatures.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks mate. Yeah I thought it was worth documenting a real life experience because most of us don’t live in super heated homes. Ironically right now the heat is actually high enough to print. But that’s like 3 weeks out of 52! 🤣

[@4hedgesfamily]

No, you didn't jump down a rabbit hole. It's more like you blindfolded yourself, tied your hands behind your back, and then hurled yourself bodily over the edge with a jetpack on full thrust. I've only dealt with an FDM printer. I'd like to get a resin printer, but I have an uninsulated and not real weatherproof shop, so until I spend a small fortune finishing it, I make good friends with people who have resin printers. (I blacksmith as another hobby, so I trade knives for models) I really appreciate your no-nonsense approach, and the way you point out that 3D printing isn't the beat-all end all solution. Sometimes it is nice just to cut the parts off the sprue, gleu them together, get rid of mold lines, fill in the gaps, and someday, maybe someday, actually get to painting.

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣🤣 oh you’re right. On every count in your comment. Most especially that last paragraph!!

[@vizionct1]

I’m using Saturn 4 ultra inside a small form factor enclosure w vent fan hose to my office window. Wash n cure station def a plus. This setup has been my easiest and safest method and amazed how fast I’m getting my prints.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think you’re doing it absolutely right. The amount of people who just don’t bother with safety is hilariously unfunny. There’s like a whole Reddit thread about ignoring safety like breathing invisible toxins isn’t a big deal. 🤣 I want those people to talk to me in 20 years time. Glad your having fun getting great prints whilst being safe!!

[@demonpokemon13]

THANK YOU! I purchased a mars 4 ultra about a couple months ago and only now got around to setting it up. I spent like 3 hours trying to get it to work and start printing with no luck. After following your advice with leveling it against 2 pieces of paper, it now is printing my rook piece. Thank you, you've got my sub.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Oh man, I’m glad you got it working!

[@pauln6917]

I think I am less inclined to print models, as much, as I am wanting to print my own detail pieces for wargaming terrain. Things that would be fiddly and tough at small 28mm scale. Window frames, stair railings, pitchers, tankards and cups, packs, bags, and bundles. Things to dress up terrain that are rounded and detailed in ways the laser cutter or hobby knife can't replicate. That being said, the models of commoners and NPC every day people and live stock for your campaign from various sellers are getting really, really good.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah that’s a very good point. Right now I’m using it for basing bits. Mainly because I’ve too many unpainted models already. 🤣

[@Kendoujo]

Yeaaaahhh this absolutely put me off, I was considering buying the Mars 5 ultra which comes out tomorrow as my first printer, but it just looks like a faff. I just want to take it out the box, grab a model file and say print. In my room, not caring about temperature. Wait a while and come back to a good quality figure. I'll wait another 10 years 😂

[@thestateofplay2023]

Hmm I wish it was like that too. But for that you’ll need a much more expensive printer. And even then, you’ll still need a ventilation tube to outside.

[@farplaine]

You’ll be waiting longer than that.

[@spacedock873]

Thanks for the excellent video. I have had an FDM printer for a few years which i use occasionally to fabricate various odds and sods. I have been contemplating a resin 3D printer for a while but, like you, have been concerned about the complexity and quality issues. What this video has brought home to me is that actually I don't have the time nor space to be going down this road, especially for the limited use cases I have for it (I'm mainly a modeller rather than a mini painter/wargamer). I already get the "And where's that going to go?" look from my wife if I buy a new model kit! 😳

[@thestateofplay2023]

If you’re a modeller not a mini guy then I’d say it’s not worth it. Most resin is kind fragile(ish) so great for tiny minis but FDM is better for parts.

[@bop3635]

Just found your channel this evening and been binging the videos. I have an Anycubic 4K myself and went through all the trials you describe. Still have issues now and again (alot from an uniformed user's errors though lol). I love the models I can print and the extra bits I can produce for my GW models to make them unique. Some creators have created some free models over the last few years specifically for painting competitions.I have found that printing these and painting them has pushed me to enter more of these and push my painting skill further than I would have, if I had to buy the model myself (at retail pricing). I feel that I can try weird and wacky things with my painting, becuause I screw the model up I can just print another for pennies worht of resin! Alot of the painting paralysis I faced before this is now gone and I can just go wild with paint schemes and finding models where I might love the individual but dont necessarily want a whole army.

[@thestateofplay2023]

You know I never thought if it that way. Makes a load of sense.

[@FarawayPictures]

That was fascinating, thank you Will.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks man!

[@philgee486]

Cool and thoughtful vid Will I'm travelling the same arc but with a much lower spec printer I was given when a mate upgraded. Some common experiences of course. My heated enclosure was the carboard box it came in upended and with a plastic window taped inside a cut-out so I can see inside. I have a battery closet light inside that activates when I move the door magnet it came with off the side of the box. An old throw goes over the box to economise on heating. Inside I have 2 carbon fan filters it came with running with a kids luchbox taped on top of the cardboard box as a filter box for extracting the air, lot of holes punched through and a scented dryer sheet taped inside as a filter. Inside the Dora lunchbox is a usb desk fan and it exhausts through a hose from a defunct vacuum cleaner to a wooden panel that seals the small open top window so we don't freeze. Under the printer is a good quality reptile/insect vivarium heating pad raised on an inverted tin tray to make contact with the underside of the printer. It reliably keeps a temp of 25c in the unheated box room, folks trust it to keep pets alive afterall. Good thermometer shows through the plastic window. Fan runs on the slowest setting and that's plenty. Already had the fan and the heating pad so total cost about £10, mostly duct tape as you can imagine lol I bought an old kitchen unit to go in the shed but brought it inside and now my printer lives in that cupboard alongside my old photon that prints my bases alongside. Contaminated rinsing IPA, I treat the mucky first dip stuff separately to the lighter stuff but both the same way. Tip it into a clear jar with the lid on and put it in the curing station until the resin cures into blobs and the ipa is clear. (Doesn't get hot) It's still a smelly mixture so I take it out into the shed and filter it through a clean square taken from an old T-shirt (my 15yr old grows like bamboo and has a drawer full he can't get on) Ipa is now clean and clear. The first dip stuff makes a real mess of the filter and takes a while to drain, but only once has it taken two runs. Incidentally I use oil paints a lot and recycle my brush cleaning white spirit by putting the jar lid back on and leaving out in the shed till the paint settles out to the bottom then pour off the clear spirit and reuse. I'm currently running three jars in sequence. The paint sludge jars go to the tip with our garden waste, they have a table to put solvent contaminated stuff. I leave the resin contaminated T-shirt squares in a ziplock bag too. (Marked 3D printer resin) Hope this helps, and if you can't make happy use of the printer I'll come collect it and do a long term test for you 🙃

[@thestateofplay2023]

Oh man thanks for that. Some absolutely great info there! A T-shirt filter! That’s genius. And now my kids are outgrowing everything I have loads spare!!

[@philgee486]

@@thestateofplay2023 remember you can't use anything with girly unicorns on it m8 ;0)

[@thestateofplay2023]

Balls! That the T-shirt options out then.

[@lamicrobio...engros5427]

thank you for that demonstration ! Can't have a printer, but maybe one day for the Mars 40 Ultra 90k :p

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣🤣 nice!

[@bladelaw]

Thank you for pointing out all extras you need to really properly manage resin printing. I too was given a "free" resin printer that turned into a rabbit hole of all the PPE, cleaning products, UV lights, heaters, etc. I love the stuff I can get out of it now that all that setup is done but more folks should be aware of the extras they'll need to get the best experience printing with resin.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I totally relate. When I said yes to being sent it, it’s only then I realised all the stuff I’d still need to buy and was about ready to say no. But now it’s done, it’s done. And I guess I can stick any other printer in the same setup now big or small.

[@athollmcnicoll1028]

Thanks for the insight video covering 3D printing, which I have to admit I've been toying with but after your intensive video, I'll pass on and stick with what I know works.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah it was a pain in the butt. I don’t blame anyone for going the opposite way.

[@richardvardy]

i currently have two resin printers and have had no real issues. they were both pretty much plug and play. with around half an hour to set up. i use a nail salon fan to help vent out the window and i have no issues with temperature. also to reduce extra chemicals i use elegoo water washable resin and a pickle jar to clean the prints. if you have the cash and the space i really recommend going for it as i have printed tonnes of stuff over the years.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Good advice. I wish I lived somewhere hotter but sadly I don’t. Although if I was being totally honest I’d don’t think that fan setup is doing anything for the VOCs floating through your room. No one really knows yet how bad breathing resin is for health. I guess we’ll find out in about 15-20 years. 😳

[@SW-wk1pd]

Awesome video. I was very much like you were on the whole resin 3D printing venture. Your insights and learnings have been very valuable and cover some valid and common issues associated with 3D printing. As someone who currently uses FDM printers and who has lived the nightmare of poor QC and the cost of adding more and more parts and accessories to my old 3D printer, I wasn't keen on this journey with resin printing. Hopefully the whole process will be made easier and less messy in the coming years where I can purchase a machine that is consistent and easy to operate and has very little clean up.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I totally agree. Resin creates some amazing pieces but the untested health implications and the faff getting there might put a lot of people off.

[@HavasiP]

Oh boy, I could write an essay about this. I dived into resin printing completely a while ago and absorbed everything I could find. I learned as much as I could apart from making my own supports, that was just not something I had the patience and time to learn. I could give you plenty of tips to make things easier for you and the key, to me, was to streamline and simplify the cleaning process. It's a very good video and it was very interesting to see someone experiencing it for the first time in an honest way without the fluff and BS so many KZbinrs dabble in. Some of your first models were also my first models. Loot Studios are great, though they do over support sometimes but I don't mind that so much. I hope you'll continue with resin printing. Once you get the hang of it and the chores of it becomes automatic for you, and faster, it's way more enjoyable.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think I will continue. Above everything else I was very surprised at the quality (which I could probably dial in more) and the speed. As I said they take less time to print than some builds. My main issue at the moment is finding models that don’t require a subscription. I simply do t want to pay monthly as I won’t want that many models. My mini factory is good but it’s the worst website I’ve ever used and I build sites for a living!

[@HavasiP]

@@thestateofplay2023 Yeah that website isn't great, but unfortunately it has tons of great models. I belive Loot Studios have free models from time to time and they are always pre supported and they have their own website. Models from other sites are very hit or miss, both the models themselves and the supports. I think some Patreon-creators also have free models sometimes but they can be tricky to find.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Loot looks and worked great but I don’t want or need a subscription so that’s out sadly.

[@Imperialguardftw]

I think we had a similar experience. I got into 3d printing to hopefully print cool variants of leman russes, that was the dream. Instead I kept creating elephant foots on the bottom of the vat, cleaning non-stop being pedantic on the cleanliness, attempting to create supports to hold the side of a tank, watching it fail, cleaning the vat again, trying again but making it too hollow, failing, cleaning, trying again. I eventually gave up and put it aside for a year and learnt how to airbrush. Until one day my older brother expressed some interest in using it to print a resin guard for his lathe on the on/off switch (random I know) Once it works, its great but getting there and learning can sometimes drive you absolutely nuts that it pushed me back to just buying GW products lol. I guess my top tips for anyone getting into it, is just buy the pre-supported models or whatever it'll save you the headache of cleaning the failed prints.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Hey Josh, yes, I was in this boat a few weeks ago and as you say, nearly gave up. What pushed me was I HAD to make this video. Otherwise, I may have passed.

[@mrs5850]

Top quality video as always. The day a resin comes out that I can use in the house without worrying the kids will grow a third eye then that’s the day I get a resin printer.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Wait! Kids aren’t meant to have a third eye? 🤣 A pleasure to see your humour as always Mr S!!

[@G_Threepwood]

Thanks Will, this captures exactly what has stopped me getting a 3D printer. It still looks to be a bit of a pain in the ass

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah it was but the redeeming feature is you only have to do it once. I guess.

[@tiffanybaker2686]

So glad you went into such detail with the printer. I was just about to get one and decided to search videos on how to use the printer and came across yours. Needless to say, I now will not be getting one. I was hoping more for a straight out of the box set it up in a simple manner and then begin printing but unfortunately that's just not the case at all. So I'm truly grateful for your transparency on this 3d printer

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah it’s a shame. I’ve waited years for what you describe and well the o my two that come close are the GKTwo and the heygears ultracraft. But with that comes huge price rises.

[@blacksnapper74]

Thanks for confirming what I expected-I don’t have the time or patience to deal with resin printing. I love my Bambu Labs A1 for terrain printing and around the house fix-it prints, but resin is a non-starter.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I’m seriously looking at the A1. I’m more a terrain man anyway.

[@impguardwarhamer]

Sold my resin printer to buy an elegoo neptune 3, never looked back. FDM really is plug and play these days, and its good enough for even 8mm terrain

[@---we1ok]

Great video. I've been 3d printing longer than I've been into Warhammer, and everything you said and identified is very true. One thing I might recommend adding for peace of mind is an automatic fire extinguisher. The kind they make for putting inside a car engine bay. I have one in the enclosure for my laser cutter (that you're responsible for :)) as well. It's just a little extra peace of mind in case the thing ever spontaneously combusts.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Great advice. I have an ordinary fire extinguisher in my garage anyway and use a baby monitor to watch. Not as great as an automatic one but better than nothing. Thanks!!

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

I think your video here as well as the one that Midwinter Minis did a while back both give a great perspective on what is and isn’t involved in getting into 3D printing. As someone with multiple pets and no spare backyard shed or garage space for this kind of setup, it’s certainly dissuaded me from ever wanting to pick it up. If I need printed bits, I’ll find someone else to do the work if I can.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I agree. That rabbit hole isn’t worth it for many. Especially those of us who can’t get Ross from Fauxhammer to turn up at their house and fix everything. 🤣🤣

[@TableTopWolf1984]

Cheers for the info mate, I've always wanted to get into 3d printing, but I'm knackered living in a mid terraced council house in Dudley with no shed or garage it seems. I was planning on buying a shed to use one but the heat problem would no doubt be an issue with these entry level ones, I'd probably need a self heated one

[@thestateofplay2023]

I dunno, if it’s a small shed with a small heater you could probably heat the entire thing for cheap. It’s what my dad used to do back in the day in the Frozen north East in a tiny terrace. If you can get the shed to 20 and just up exposure times it’s work. Prints would just take a bit longer. Half hour or so.

[@ssbtd00m]

Nice fair and balanced take on resin printing. People should know about the mess, and the fiddling around to get a good print. And the cleanup. And the waste disposal. And everyone should know that you'll need to use "High Toughness" resin or your minis will not survive a fall off the table, or a collision with the storage box, or even sometimes survive being removed from the build plate. Get "high toughness" resin to avoid being disappointed and disillusioned. That almost happened to me before I got Sunlu's toughness resin.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I just ordered abs-like stuff because as you say - dropped. 😭

[@MAJmufin]

a decent alternative for the temprature regulation is a brewing belt you can wrap around your metal vat and dial in a steady temprature or use something like Chitubox heater which is kind of the same just air heating instead of direct heating. set a temp and a time to heat to thattemp and its set. pretty easy I use the chitubox heater myself inside my Saturn printer since it can fit inside the cover.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I looked at the chitubox heater but there’s nowhere to put it in the Mars ultra sadly. And I did want a vat belt but a heater was cheaper. 👍🏼

[@timmehwimmy]

Cool video. I have a similar setup. There are thicker gloves that you can keep reusing rather than disposable. I've not yet had to get rid of IPA, but there can be more kit for that too.

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣 nice, you’re suggesting a further rabbit hole on IPA and gloves. Love ya!!

[@timmehwimmy]

@@thestateofplay2023 well, if you want to look like you are about to help birth cattle... I have yet to find an area of resin printing that can't be "upgraded" and become a rabbit hole :)

[@thestateofplay2023]

So I’m beginning to learn. 🤣🤣 There’s my month gone….time to fiddle.

[@timmehwimmy]

@@thestateofplay2023 I'm up to my eyeballs in it already. If you want pointers / advice / to scream in to the void, give me a shout.

[@Captn_Grumpy]

I literally spat the snack I was eating all over myself at the younglings reference. And it was worth it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Glad to be of service. 🤣🤣

[@Lychee3d]

Really nice video 👌

[@thestateofplay2023]

My pleasure. Thanks for making my printing easier!

[@fatelux]

A useful and entertaiment video as always. I'm not into 3 d printers and after watching your video I can't be less interested. I think I'm still buying plastic models from GW and 3d printed minis from professional printers. I have the space and the money, but I don't have the time and the interest to jump in another time consuming hobby.☺️👍

[@thestateofplay2023]

I get ya! In its defence though it’s only time consuming at the very beginning. Once setup there’s little to do but print. 😜

[@brennonr]

I got a upper cabinet from the local home goods store. it was on a super sale because the color was messed up. I ended up fashioning a very similar vent set up out the side of it. I also added some weather stripping around the door to make a good seal and put a baby lock on the door for extra safety lol. Even though there are no babies in my house... that i know of...

[@thestateofplay2023]

You wanna check under the sofa. I find babies usually end up there for some reason. 🤣

[@brennonr]

@@thestateofplay2023 Babies... so sneaky

[@thestateofplay2023]

I just dress ‘em in a lint free cloth so they can clean under there as they go!

[@brennonr]

Smart

[@Lachdonin]

I was actually very surprised with the ease of my first jump into 3d printing. Minus the initial failure due to me neglecting to remove one of the protective films, i've been using with with no fuss for 6 months now. Haven't even had to re-level it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah I guess now I’ve learned, I’ve learned, so to speak. I can just swap out printer or resin anytime.

[@Lachdonin]

@@thestateofplay2023 For what it's worth, i've also had a lot of success with Chitubox's autosupports. I've actually run into more problems with presupported models than i have simply using autosupport. Though even that has been minimal.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I’m going to have to fiddle more with chitibox. Probably copy the settings from Lychee because it just didn’t print anything for me. I think the lift settings were off.

[@fturfler2]

great insights. You may want to try Anycubic's water-washable ABS-like version 2.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks for that. I probably will. I’m still getting the feel. I’m not keen on the water washable standard elegoo stuff. Seems a bit soft to me

[@Row.]

The thing with 3D printers is that you have to spend a bunch of money and time before you can get your first print going, so there's a very large barrier of entry. But after that, it's just a matter of filling the tank and pressing Print on a presupported file you got off of a site or another, and that's where it becomes cheaper (5-20% of MSRP, depending on unit type and army) and faster than GW models. I say faster because even if a print takes 8 hours and assembly of an official model takes 3, the official models are 3 hours of work, but the 8hr print you can send at night, or before doing literally anything else for 8+ hours, and then work on it for half an hour when it's done. So, effectively, almost any print only takes half an hour of work, because you're not going to sit there staring at the printer for the whole time it prints. You'll just spent some time on the print when it's ready.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I totally agree. Well, unless you change resins and then you need to go through the entire setup again. 👍🏼

[@impguardwarhamer]

Thank you so much for making this video. I had such a horrible experience with resin printers that I almost wanted to make a youtube video myself, but you've covered most of it here. One final death knell you missed in this video though is that most STL's arn't actually free. Sure you can find plenty of fancy free ones out there that youtubers love to showcase, but if you're actually planning on building an army you're probably going to want something specific, and unless you want some awful low poly sculpt you're gonna be paying somewhere in the region of 10-20 quid for it. Sure you can print as many as you like, but unless its your standard infantry unit how many duplicate models does the average person want anyway? Oh, and I also just wanted to note that you absolutely are not being overkill with safety. I did about half of the measures you did but skimped on some others, and I ended up getting severe resin burns within a month.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Omg you’re so right. I looked at buying some armies and they were like £70. Lots of models sure but add in resin at £30, all the disposable items like gloves, IPA, paper towels etc and it’s not really that much cheaper. As you say you can print multiple times but I only need one Army, not two. Add in that most models come in a subscription that I don’t want to pay for because I won’t need ALL the sculpts. I like Loot Studios stuff but it’s a subscription. You cannot buy single models.

[@Dubious.Bovine]

I hear you with the wash and cure station, now I've used it I can see the point of separate devices. That said, you only forget to change it to cure mode once....

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣🤣 I was worried about not changing settings too. Without my glasses I could quite easily press the wrong button.

[@Chimer24-qs5wo]

A really good video on the pros and cons of 3D printing. Personally, yes I want to [and will soon] but it's always good to have an honest appraisal of the expense and concerns involved. Thank you )O(

[@thestateofplay2023]

I’m glad it helped you make a decision. Whichever way you go. 👍🏼

[@mmlips]

THANK YOU!

[@thestateofplay2023]

You’re welcome. Not sure what I did but you’re very welcome. 🤣

[@Old_Wizard_Minis]

This video describes my journey when I started out with the Saturn 2. It has very nice prints, but it is fiddley. The Saturn 4 Ultra is supposed to arrive today and should alleviate most of my pain points. Self leveling, wifi, vat sensor, etc. Lucky for me I only need a heated vat one month out of the year. With all that being said all of this stuff isn't cheap. But the real main advantage is I can print as many models as I want. Meaning I can have whole armies, I can give them to friends, I can throw paint parties, if they break it can be replaced, and I never have to worry about am I good enough a painter to do an exceptional model justice. I'll just print another one and try again.

[@thestateofplay2023]

All makes sense to me. The only issue o h e with the Saturn ultra is that plate. I can’t imagine having to clean in between all those springy leg connectors. I think the GK Two solves that with the flat sides.

[@Old_Wizard_Minis]

@@thestateofplay2023 yeah the GK2 is strong, probably the printer to beat at the moment. I went with the S4U mainly due to bed tilting and the cost. If I had more need for the heater the gk2 would've been my upgrade.

[@darrenj3720]

Interesting stuff. Ive never printed anything in my life and if im honest i dont intend to. But the information here has really helped soldify my thoughts, its just not for me. Thanks for the information, very good as usual.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I don’t blame you. It took me 3 weeks to do this and well… the hobby shop is 12 minutes in the car.

[@elenchus]

wow very helpful!

[@thestateofplay2023]

Glad it was helpful!

[@Nethezbet]

I live in Arizona, a cold day in Phoenix in winter is like 65 degrees (18C) whereas summer can hit 115 easily (46C). I do usually print in the house, because I wasn't sure what 110+ would do to my prints, but I guess dying of lung cancer without smoking sucks, too. Great video, I love your take and your production, even if I do avoid GW like the plague. Can you avoid a plague? Can you avoid GW...? Regardless, keep up the great work!

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think we all try to avoid both plagues and GW, but if you’re anything like me - I suck at avoiding both!! And Arizona sounds lovely. Here in the U.K. 65 degrees is like the middle of a hot summer day! 🤣😜

[@MiszAgrippa]

Very nice review of overall 3d printing experience, some of the stuff you mentioned can be hard to catch for people that 3d print a lot. As you said, I still think it's more of a hobby then a tool, but we're getting there. Some 3d printing machines have exposure finding options, so you can make one print with 8 models, each with different exposure time. Sounds great and hopefully it will become more common feature. You're also very correct with the focus on the resolution. It's easy number to market and compare. "Our las model was 6k, now it's 9k!". Ease of use features would be much more appreciated. Like mentioned exposure range finder or built in heater. (some machines do have them, but I'm not sure how well it works.) But most importantly I can imagine you sitting in the night in front of the computer when working on this video and smirking while picking the stock footage. And it gives me a smile too.

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣🤣 bang on with the stock footage! Yeah I know exactly what you mean here. Seems like Bambu labs have got a great balance with FDM. But resin manufacturers seem to be pushing K and anything else that looks good in an ad but not necessarily what users need. I’d love to see Bambu do resin. The Mars 4 ultra will read UVTool exposure finder files I discovered but it was still quicker to print the XPS than spend time making the file in the software. I think all printers should ship with a exposure file on the usb as you say. Would make things much easier.

[@TapCat]

I have many of the same issues that hold me back from 3D printing. With collections of board games, comic books, movies, and more space is in short supply and time is even shorter. I'm currently trying to work my way through a large backlog of miniatures that I need to paint so I can play the related games. If I have to go down the resin printing rabbit hole, I will have significantly less time to paint and less time to play which seems counterproductive. And if I start printing terrain to try games like Rangers of Shadowdeep then it would push my lack of space to the breaking point (not to mention the new time requirement for painting up all the terrain). And if all that isn't enough, there is the mess and stink of the chemicals and both my cat and my wife are going to be very unhappy about that. Put it all together and it remains an intriguing prospect that I will not pursue for the foreseeable future because it just doesn't fit into my life and I don't know that I'd get enough out of it to make the changes necessary to make it fit.

[@thestateofplay2023]

You totally nailed why I avoided 3D printing for as long as I did. I’m still building my backlog of models let alone started painting them. I’m now looking at the printer and all I can think of printing are …..base toppers.

[@FlesHBoX]

To answer your question, yes, ACF does come at the cost of some softening of the print. Depending on what you're using it for, this can be a big problem, or it might be basically meaningless. That being said, a lot of the resin printing community dislikes acf for this reason, and it appears that newer models are returning to PFA release film. There is also some new hotness called HCF that is supposed to be better than ACF, but it's in the "engineering sample" stage and has not been used on any consumer-level printers. As for other handy items... a silicone spatula to replace the awful yellow scraper the include with the printer. Nothing but a gloved hand, a silicone spatula, or a microfiber cloth ever touches my release film. As for cleaning the build plate, I never clean it unless I'm switching resins, or need to put it somewhere other than on the printer, or on some paper towel on my silicone mat. I remove the prints from the build plate and put it right back on the printer. Then the cover goes back on and it sits there until the next print. As for IPA wastage, the key is to only open the container as long as you absolutely have to, and always seal it up after. I bought 4 gallons of IPA almost 2 years ago now, and I still have one unopened gallon, and about a third of another. Most of that has been used in my spray bottle when I'm either cleaning up the area, or going over prints after they come out of the wash. Resin printing certainly isn't a hobby for everyone, and for some of us the printing is a hobby unto itself. I just got my second resin printer, and will be selling my Saturn 2 to my DM. My new printer has a lot of nice features that will make it a much more user-friendly printer, but the future is coming when a lot of the fiddly stuff is made much more simple. About the only aspect of resin printing that doesn't appear to have a "coming soon" solution is the toxic nature of the resin itself. Proper PPE is hands down the most essential part of the hobby.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks for this. This is fantastic info!

[@bjbrak-3924]

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!! The first video, that tells me, man, you are far to lazy for a second hobby, just don't do it! Wait another 10 years, safe money and time and order your 10mm minis online like you did the last ten years. It worked wonderful, still does. And I can stop watching "3d printer videos". That's a lot of time I will have for painting. So, this video helped me a lot. Thx, wish you the best, greetings from Germany

[@thestateofplay2023]

You’re welcome. I do like 3D printing but as you say, it seems like most videos are from people already fully invested. It’s like watching a football fan tell you his team is the best. Of course he thinks that! 🤣it’s takes someone else on the outside to look objectively at whether it’s true or not. 👍🏼

[@bryanswift6301]

I’d recommend the Uniformation Gk2. They might send you one if you want to do a review of it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

That is the direction I’m leaning but feels a bit like there might be a GK3 round the corner with a better bulld plate connection. And I always feel guilty asking for free stuff. I much prefer when they reach out to me - feels less like shilling. 🤣

[@bryanswift6301]

@@thestateofplay2023 well I wouldn’t want you to be known as a shill! Integrity is hard to keep and harder to get back once you’ve lost it. I respect you for that. I own a GK2 and it is a great machine. I am not sure exactly what they could improve on it’s performance but there are some quality of life improvements they could make. A pouring lip on the vat, and a lid that stays open on its own, in any position being two. My garage is pretty far from the WiFi too so I usb drive it too. Keep making quality content and the reviews will come knocking like the lasers did, lol!

[@philgee486]

@@thestateofplay2023 Honestly, the quality of your review vids they'd be happy to I'm sure

[@gus.smedstad]

Those adapters you improvised for the hose are a typical use case for a 3D printer. Usually FDM printers. I've got an Ender 3 and I make things like that all the time.

[@thestateofplay2023]

You see now I want an A1 Bambu. See what you’ve done now. Another rabbit hole. 🤣🤣

[@gus.smedstad]

@@thestateofplay2023 - I'm on the other side of that. Staring into the abyss of resin printing. I seriously envy the precision of a resin printer, but I don't want to deal with the fumes, cleanup, or disposal of resin washed off the models.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Its annoying but surprisingly easy after all my moans

[@LetsSmokeAboutIt]

@@thestateofplay2023 I got an A1 Mini this summer, while they're not resin quality, it's so much fun printing minis on it all the same. Also terrain is great on them. Oh, and it basically is plug it in, slice, and print. So that's worth it for me.

[@piptarou]

I've been printing since 2021 and can add a few things to the conversation! My printer is an older Anycubic Photon Mono with a 2k resolution. You don't need high resolution, mine prints off spectacularly. However, it did take some time to precisely dial in my settings to the point where I can print off 3mm birds with feet and I only use a resin that I dialed my settings in on (Phrozen Aqua Green). I get amazing detail with low resolution. My reasoning for getting a printer was because I wanted to paint display models for competitions and the ones available were generally across the pond in the UK and elsewhere in Europe. So with the cost of display quality models and shipping... it was just far more worth it to me to get a 3d printer. I'd say it's also worth it if you want D&D minis. You can make custom heroes and the monsters available online are WAY better quality than what you can pick up at a game shop. You can often find prints on Etsy as well, but again with the cost of shipping it was better for me to pick up a printer. I also started 3d printing with the mindset it would be a full-on hobby... Now it's mostly just a tool so I can have cool minis. I pretty much never level my printer, I think it's been over a year since I levelled it? :| I have my printer situated in my unheated basement and I usually have no issues until it gets around 15C.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think this is also what I leaned. When it works - it’s a tool. But when it fails and you need to figure something out - it’s a hobby. Funny how there’s such a weirdly clean line. 🤣

[@piptarou]

@@thestateofplay2023 There very much is! But once you get setup, like you say in the video, if you run into issues then it's usually an environmental cause.

[@virrcraft]

You had an option to ask me any time 😂 and, actually, you still have this option. Would be happy to help. But video is great! And… yeah, resin 3d printing is a mess

[@thestateofplay2023]

I know I did but sometimes the deep end is where you learn to swim the best! 👍🏼

[@virrcraft]

@@thestateofplay2023 that’s absolutely true. Also ultrasonic cleaner could help to achieve even better results… but it’s extra cost. But what I heard in your video - you got everything more than right and doing great 😊 so if you have small questions - feel free to ask :)

[@thestateofplay2023]

Actually I do have a question. I personally think the standard elegoo water wash resin runs a bit soft in detail for my liking. What resin would you recommend that’s darker grey and holds detail better?

[@virrcraft]

@@thestateofplay2023 recently I tried Faux Hammer's "Wargamer" Resin. I really like it, it’s on expensive side, but result pretty great. Also it water washable. If you looking something cheaper - standard Sunlu dark grey resin is nice and really cheap (but need to be washed in IPA alc). Also I used Elegoo ABS like v2 (which is still more on bright side) and may say it’s not too bad, but again - not waterwashible. And Elegoo have now v3… which might be better 😅 I saw someone advise to try Sunlu abs like - but not tried it myself yet. From “expensive” in my list to try - TH72, Phrozen RPG resin, Siraya fast abs-like and Amerlabs TGM-7

[@aslskfan1]

So, how much did all of the extra setup and supplies cost? I am still on the fence about resin printing myself…

[@thestateofplay2023]

About the same price as the printer and wash machine. Maybe just under. I’m sure you could spend more or less depending on what you buy. One thing I’d say is, once you get it working and get your first print you then realise how many models you could print in a week from one bottle of resin.

[@johnthomson1149]

Are you supposed to use iso for water washable resin. i have never used it without issue.

[@thestateofplay2023]

No, you dont have to. ISO just dries quicker.

[@pbkobold]

Once in a Six Side recently did a resin review. He liked a few different ones, but the SUNLU ABS-Like is a great combo of tough enough for minis plus really reasonably priced.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks for that. Yea I watched that video out of the hundreds I sat through. 🤣🤣

[@lectric]

I was vaguely considering buying a 3d printer. You've now convinced me not to, too much of a hassle.

[@thestateofplay2023]

In its defence you only have to go through this once. Then it’s done for any printer you might ever buy.

[@pomkin355]

This was a great video, you answered all the questions about the current state of tech. I don't want another hobby, I just want to print models of SciFi/movie ships that aren't available and spend time on the modelling. So I will continue to whittle away at my stockpile instead. I subscribed a few months ago, and based on the standard of your videos (and sharing a similar sensibility and age) I look forward to your KZbin success. Please don't start adding stupid reaction faces to your thumbnails!

[@thestateofplay2023]

Haha. Thank you. Honestly I never understood the reaction faces. What are people reacting too? The thumbnail? The video? Tbh it’s too much faff spending extra time photographing myself and I’m hardly photogenic! 🤣🤣

[@markthecruel1055]

I've heard of people using heating elements used for brewing on the resin tank. I've got a small cupboard heater and a silicone spatula for the liquid resin cleaning.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I looked at those brewing heaters but was more confident making a heated box than getting the wrong vat band. Also I didn’t really fancy taking it on and off to clean the vat. 😜

[@ninjassasen]

I recently got my first ever resin printer. I've very much of the same opinion. Plug and play. But I caved since at the time the Anycubic photon mono 2 was on sale on amazon. I figured if I was going to give this a shot, a good sale was a nice starting point. And I don't regret my purchase. Anycubic has a great exposure time finder that lets you test 8? (I think 8) exposures at once. So I was able to do a single cones of calibration test using it and there I had it. Done. And yee. I'm with ya on Presupported models. I stuck to it a lot. And I printed a lot of things I've enjoyed. The number of models I have right now outweigh the cost I would have spent purchasing them. And that's awesome. More recently I've finally printed a model I had to support. The presupported version failed me and I desperately wanted this model printed. I prayed and used autosupport, using the medium option with the large option's base. And it worked out. Oh and I also recently had to tune the tolerance setting so parts would fit together smoothly. Aside from that I do not change settings and never intend too. I couldn't care if it takes 5 hours to print or not. It prints and that's what matters to me.

[@ninjassasen]

Oh yeah I also don't use an all in one. The cost isn't worth it. A couple Tupperware and lots of vigorous shaking does the job for me. A machine to spin alcohol seemed like a needless expense. I benefitted from having a nail curing station that I use in tangent with a cheep solar powered spinner for curing.

[@ninjassasen]

I remove my supports prewash. I've not seen any videos suggesting it but the idea of washing my supports, the material I'm going to be tossing out, seemed like the wildest thing to do. I've not had any issues doing this and it helped get in the tight areas that the supports otherwise cover up.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think we have come to pretty much the same conclusions. I’m thinking just like you.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah I had noticed that after pre cleaning I didn’t really need a wash machine.

[@richardalombro1310]

If anyone can please help, I have had such a difficult time. My prints cannot for the love of it stick on the base plate. I check exposure, new film, leveled plate, good exposure and it's even zeroed in. Loosing my mind

[@thestateofplay2023]

Is the printer itself level? Mine wasn’t printing until I spotter the resin in the bath didn’t look level so I adjusted the printers legs. Couple of other things to try are bottom exposure time. Up that. Up the base layers too. Keep you g them until it sticks. Print something thin so it’s quick. And even rough up the base plate with sandpaper.

[@popcorngenerator1925]

For me, the hobby (what I enjoy) is the building and painting of models. Any other faffing around to get to the starting product is just not something I'm willing to waste my time on. My hobby space also consists of the dining room table and a portable hobby case, so honestly the need for a set place for ventilation and stable temperature is the biggest drawback for me.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yea, I agree. Just wait until my wife finds out there’s no more storage space left in the garage.

[@ironxYT]

Getting to the point of successful prints was really fun for me. But I like a challenge and a learning curve. I understand it’s not everybody’s cup of tea.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Oh it was fun. I did enjoy learning something new. I guess my problem was I already have an absolutely huge backlog of models from sprues to paint - making even more, now that I can just seemed crazy! 🤣🤣

[@AzukailGames]

This does seem like a good argument for getting someone else to print your models on demand! Even if you have to pay them.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I did look into that but it didn’t seem to be cheaper than just buying other models. Especially for full armies. Single models seemed reasonable though.

[@AzukailGames]

@@thestateofplay2023 Yes, I think that's probably best suited for one offs and experimental stuff.

[@alexfelip1]

I started this recently too, and it's all so true! I think if you just print and don't design it doesn't make any sense other than saving the cost of figures or printing things that aren't found in plastic or metal castings. However, STL designers are generating a business model where the files are not cheap enough to be worth all the inconvenience of having to print them yourself, I understand that their work has to be paid for.... But I think the trend is to release a lot of products because they are not going to sell many of each, and expensive enough to amortise them in a very short time, because pirated files will be circulating quickly. The last straw is that I found a brand that sells STL or the same figures already finished in metal. Excellent figures. The thing is that STLs are more expensive than metal figures! Well, at least the STLs allow us to avoid all the inconveniences that we have on the continent when importing from the other side of Brexit.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah it’s one thing I wondered. If I have to subscribe to 5-10 different STL makers and only print a small fraction of the models then is it that much cheaper. After all even if you buy a whole army for say $70 in STLs how many times are you really going to print them. Probably once. Because then you’ll have the army. I don’t imagine people will print two of the same army just to make it cheaper. 🤣

[@user-vl8jv1tl5e]

how was the washable resin, vs normal ones, can you tell ??

[@thestateofplay2023]

I’ve never used any other resin. But being able to dilute the IPA meant not spending a fortune on it.

[@alexcochrane5639]

3D printing isn't for everyone. But I'd say you might have gone to the extreme with the equipment. 😅 I've had a 3D printer for the last 5 years now, and I don't even have that much stuff. It's mainly the printer and the Mercury+. 🤷 But I absolutely love how you don't give a final answer and leave it to the viewer to make a choice. 😁

[@thestateofplay2023]

I thought that might have been the case but who knows what breathing in that stuff does after 10/20/30 years. And I tried the other way and it was just io cold to print anything. It all failed. Over and over. 🤣

[@tinyfishhobby3138]

@@thestateofplay2023I for one, even though I don’t 3d print, appreciate all the precautions you took and if I ever were to get into this as a hobby, would probably do much the same. No sense in risking your health or lungs long term just to have some printed minis on the table.

[@thestateofplay2023]

@@tinyfishhobby3138 Yeah I do enough damage with alcohol and vapes. I don't want to add resin to the mix! 😷

[@lordunborn]

Garage in Florida ;) I used to print in Buffalo so I understand.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Oh yes. You’ve probably gone from one extreme to the other. 🤣

[@MrJHDK]

Wait... what did happen to the toxic waste? 😮 (I did an oil change on my mother's tractor four years ago. Her brother used to do them before he passed. There's still a bin filled with over 30 litres of used motor oil in the garage - right beside the one filled with rusty coolant)

[@thestateofplay2023]

That’s about right. It’s all still in my garage. But now after this video I have loads of tips from viewers on how to filter it all! There’s method to the madness! 👍🏼

[@rhodrimalin1301]

I'm going to continue to obtain my prints from my friend's 3d pront service as it is supporting a friend who has found a new lease of life after years of illness licensing and selling prints via etsy. He has nice big scale pieces for painting and will help me out with smaller bits as and when. As you say, not interested in an additional hobby, limited space plus kids and pets mskes doing it myself a bit of a no-no. Oh and you nearly touch on this in the video but there is now so many options out there for what to print that it is almost impossible to tell what is worth printing, between the stuff you mention about supports vs ubsupported, vs the relative lack of quality control compared to multi-million pound miniature companies both in sculpt and prontong skill. I have a relatively healthy level of expenditure on the hobby and no FOMO so while i will spend some of my hobby budget on prints from my mate, i'll also buy plastic kits from both lodal stores, official retailers and dare I say it ebay bits strippers.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I think you nailed it there. It took me weeks to get this right and it’s weeks I could have got other stuff done. I’ll probably end up using it for basing bits to save on buying all those resin parts i always get. 😜

[@watercreator]

I just got into resin 3d printing and I think the initial investment is the hardest thing. I dumped 1300+ and I can't complain. It does have down falls and LOTS of mess and its scary to work with, but the prints are amazing!

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah you’re right. Problem I’m having now is that don’t want to subscribe for maybe miniatures I don’t want. And they all seem to be subscriptions thesedays. There’s loads of choice but not necessarily models I want or need. Decisions. Decisions! 🤣

[@watercreator]

@@thestateofplay2023 yeah, I have a few that I subscribe to, but only a small selection I print, but the price of the model vs the price of the sub / patreon is vastly smaller. Thanks for the video, more people should watch, wish I seen this before getting into it.

[@peters.9463]

I have the same thoughts and issues about resin 3D printing. I don't want to deal with toxic substances only to get my hobby miniatures done. I don't have a certain room or area I could use where my kids won't be arround, so this is not an option for me. One question which is not often discussed, as far as I have seen it, how sensitive the finished models are to heat or direct sunlight exposure? Like transporting them in a car in the summer, when it has nearly 50-60°C inside the boot? Will the models, even after they got cured, primed and painted, warp or melt or whatsoever? Whould that already happen at temperatures of about 30-40°C, like it has in summer in my attic? I mean it is difficult enough to find some sort of storage system for the regular plastic and metal miniatures. Thinking of a special storage system for resin models in addition is just a bit annoying.

[@thestateofplay2023]

That’s a very good question and one I can’t answer sadly. The U.K. just doesn’t get that hot, even in a hot car so unless you put one in the oven as a test…

[@peters.9463]

@@thestateofplay2023 I have made some copies with milliput and bluestuff molds from oldhammer models. Maybe I will try it with those models. Milliput is some kind of resin too, however I don't know about the differences to printer resin. Could be kind of an interesting experiment. If I will do it, I will let you know about the outcome.

[@ssbtd00m]

lychee is absolutely the way to go. I don't understand why anyone complains about making supports. Lychee's magic wand tool is near perfect. Especially for minis. Getting the right exposure time and getting your area heated and Bob's your uncle. The resin I use for minis is Sunluu's High Toughness. The minis are now durable and don't snap in half if I glance at them.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Totally. I couldn’t get Chitu to play ball at all

[@TheInquisitor7]

damn dude you went ALL OUT on extras. looks like you may have over complicated your work space a bit, but also your work space is going to be way cleaner than mine hah! im surprised the mars plate doesnt fit in the wash tank, whats the point? appreciate your adventure, also glad i didnt get a mars

[@thestateofplay2023]

🤣🤣 Yeah I wanted to be thorough and safe. And you’re right. Considering the Mars 4 plate is the smallest they have, not fitting in the wash and cure was a massive oversight. Means no other Elegoo plate will fit at all. 🤷🏼‍♂️

[@TheInquisitor7]

@@thestateofplay2023 thats just wild to me. i got an anycubic mono on sale at some point and the plate just drops in. i think its even the same bucket. you have issues with temp because of your location, and it doesnt get THAT cold where i am at but in the winter here its still too cold to print effectively (in the garage). I used the foam that came with the printer to cover the plastic on the plastic printer cover and put that over the top to insulate it. just keep it away from the heater you got in there :P

[@paytreonsuhks]

charcoal does in fact filter VOC's, it's the same thing in your respirator filters.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Oh I know it does but I can’t believe the tiny one in the Mars 4 is capable of doing anything useful.

[@larry84903]

The closest printer to the one you have described in your video is the ultracraft reflex by heygear. It does all of the leveling heating and supporting of models itself, and is probably as plug and play as printers will be for a while. The only downside is that you have to use their resin, and the printer comes at a premium price.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I watched a video on that one but as you say, locked into one resin and system doesn’t really appeal. It’s basically a subscription model which would be cool if the initial printer was cheaper.

[@Vizeroy9]

If you want to make a ventilation systwm. Just go for standard parts, used for houses. Studf from 3d printer companies are most often not made for houses.

[@thestateofplay2023]

👍🏼

[@ArcheryGeek]

great video.. deleted my shopping cart on amazon after this. :)

[@thestateofplay2023]

Hopefully you didn’t delete anything important. 👍🏼😜

[@ArcheryGeek]

@@thestateofplay2023 just the resin printer. Your video is almost exactly what I wanted to see. The safety aspect and clean up is a show stopper for me. The other point about buying minis is huge for me too. I have about 150 minis coming soon from a kickstarter that cost about $120. Reaper. Thanks!

[@thestateofplay2023]

Lol. Yeah. When you can print anything at any time you end up with even more unpainted models. 🤣

[@Vizeroy9]

Well... you can get sls printers, which work with powders instead of resin. Sadly, those start at about $8k and go up to 6 digits - not counting in the cleaning stations, where you get the excessive powder off to reuse it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes I watched a few videos on those. Looks like there’s one at $2999 but the quality doesn’t look that good.

[@Vizeroy9]

@@thestateofplay2023 Yeah.. I could only find half decent ones, starting at about $8k. Good ones seem to start in 5 digit regions.

[@Nethezbet]

I got a printer for free from a friend, and it was... annoying, at first. Once I bothered to take the time to ACTUALLY set it up correctly, it was a blast. That isn't to say the cons are completely without merit, but I think they are both over-played a bit and also out of date... a bit. I think it is worth looking into, but I don't blame people at all for not wanting to mess with them. They do have a learning curve.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes you’ve hit the nail here. Once setup correctly for your environment it’s done. It’s a one time thing. The few fails here and there are usually when something changed that you didn’t notice. I keep telling myself I’ll print and then companies keep making cool mega boxes!!

[@pbkobold]

It hurts that resin tank heaters aren't on every printer. I'm waiting until they are standard to consider another printer purchase. I wrap a heating pad around my Mars 3 in my cold garage, but I shouldn't need to do that.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I agree. Considering the machine requires a specific temp to work. It’s like buying a toaster with no heating element!

[@chuckocenasek5651]

I want a 3d printer, but the fiddlyness of the settings, smell, and wet resin being hazardous put me off as I have a toddler/child who cosplays as a Kuiju often and I worry for her safety. Plus I get frustrated easy. I am lucky as I have a friends who prints for me. Great to see hobby videos from a fellow parent.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah I want my kids nowhere near resin or unsafe lasers. I see too many videos of people just printing in their house with no safety. Just because it’s invisible doesn’t mean it isn’t bad for you. 😜

[@matthewhowe4778]

The mercury always seemed unnecessary to me. My additional parts consist of a few tubs for the iso, a uv lamp from Amazon, and the box it came in which I reworked into a uv station with some duct tape, glue and aluminium foil. After a few prints you catch your stride and cleaning and setting up a print becomes a 5 Min experience: scrape the excess resin back into the vat, spray iso onto a cloth and wipe the plate, set up the print and clean the minis. My little printer has saved me thousands, and let me experience war gaming to a level I would never be able to afford if I relied on retail purchases. I would not say that it is a hobby, but there are definitely many aspects and skills to learn, and that is not for everyone. But if you are willing, you can expand the horizons of your hobby almost as far as you can imagine.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Funny you say that about the wash and cure. After pre rinsing parts and having a UV lamp I did wonder if I even needed it. As you say I could just make a mirrored box!

[@Vizeroy9]

If you increase the resin printer size, you have to raise the k to keep pixel size more or less the same, compared to the smaller printer. Sou you still have to up the k to shrink the pixel sizes. Unlike with cameras, smaller pixel sizes are better. J3Dtech has a video, comparing print quality between 3 types of vat film: fep, nfep and acf (the cloudy stuff). You can get each kind for every printer - you need them as spare parts anyway.

[@thestateofplay2023]

👍🏼

[@DarkCastleMiniatures]

my main aversion to 3d printing is that i just want it to plug and play, ive always said, when it is easier than just buying a model online - then ill buy one. - Plus my pile of shame is more like a room of shame.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Same here. Although sadly my pile is a mountain that I could actually ski down. So much so that I can’t even think of anything to 3D print because I simply don’t need any more models. 🤣

[@DarkCastleMiniatures]

@@thestateofplay2023 same here haha. Im nearly at carboot levels hehe

[@suekuan1540]

What software do you make these figures

[@thestateofplay2023]

I do t make the figures I got the free from Myminifactory.com. But the software I use to print them on the printer was Lychee Slicer.👍🏼

[@suekuan1540]

Thx for replying 🙂 I thought you sculptured.them.with software like zbrush or mud box.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I can use Z brush, maya and 3d studio max which I use in my day job in the computer game industry. But… all those models are copyrighted by the games owner.

[@jpendersen1294]

FDM has come a long way, Bambu Labs has one of the easiest to use systems, albeit it's still FDM, though their .2mm hotend definitely produces some of the nicest quality miniatures you can find in the FDM arena.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Don’t! I’ve been side-eying the A1 for months. Then there was ‘cablegate’ so I breathed a sigh. But that’s fixed now so….😳🤣🤣

[@EmanueleC_BR]

The part that irritates me most is that the printer manufacturers make no provision at all for moving a print from the printer to the cleaning process. Why am I having to manage drips and dangle around a build plate while scraping off prints, then moving those to a wash station? Its a process they Know we need to follow.. My suggestion would be the manufactures automate that process and put a wash machine attached that once the print is finished, it moves the plate into and does a wash. Ideally a cure after too. Imagine the difference if I can hit go and the thing the other side is touchable/cured resin. It would be a game changer.

[@thestateofplay2023]

You’re absolutely right. An automated print to wash to cure station would be amazing!

[@chaosclg]

Ive done everything i can and gave myself every reason not to buy a 3d printer, all i want is a nice set of terrain that matches the wtc sizes without it being wood. Nice texture so i can paint it up. Gw pieces will cost me £600/£700 and still not be absolutely correct so this is the only way to achieve it! Elegoo mars 4 ultra and the wash station for half that and ill print all the forge world models too 🤷

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yes for this reason I totally agree. It will more than half the price of terrain.

[@JohnBubriski]

You don't have to clean your build plate, at least not very often. I haven't cleaned my build plate for the last 2 bottles of resin.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Really? But what if bits of resin are stuck on there which I had a few times? You mean the top of it rather than the flat plate?

[@oliverp3545]

Added expense i know but a greenhouse works perfect during cooler periods, though this time of year even in the UK you don't need it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

I wish I had space for a greenhouse! 🤣

[@nurglerider781]

Despite the early pains learning to print successfully being able to print the models I want for what amounts to pennies on the dollar compared to the highway robbery of GW is irreplaceable. Though I will agree that I hate the toxicity of resin. I really hope we get to a point where the material used is a lot less or, ideally, non-toxic in the near future.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah it’s the worst kind of toxicity too. Invisible. With no info at all of long term effects. Who knows what it’s doing to you.

[@impguardwarhamer]

when you consider set up costs, heating costs, resin costs, stl costs, and how much of your time it eats up, you're not really saving any money unless you're australian. Then I get it.

[@Dussellus]

You dont need iso alcohol tho. You can, at least here in Denmark get denatured alcohol much much much cheaper. And after probably 200± prints I have yet to see it not work for rinsing or cleaning. Yes 3d printint is a bit expensive up front, but with the vast community you can easily find models for anything and often free - so price per figure goes down real quick. Especially because GW keeps increasing their prices and 3d printers and resin goes down (keep an eye out for holidays, especially the chinese ones) and you can get deals for something like 5 or 10kg resin for something like 100 british pounds - and thats from Elegoo or Anycubic. Sunlu is a great resin brand and is even cheaper. In regards to the used alcohol: you can use it several times, like probably 50+ times, with that build plate size, before you need to clean it. And that part is easy - leave the container outside so the suns UV sorts out the resin. Pour the alcohol into another container and you can reuse it. If you want to get rid of all of it, pour it into any sort of container and bring that to your local landfil/reuse center/garbage disposal area and ask them - they will have system for it.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thanks for that. Great info I’ll be using in future. And yeah, GW price increase are pushing me into 3d printing. My one gripe so far is all the subscriptions for 3D models. Far too many on a subscription and not as individual sales.

[@DrVesuvius70]

So much to comment on - I'm gonna have to limit myself to the two most significant points and one general observation. Firstly, talking about 3d printing as a single monolith is a misnomer. There are two main domestic 3d printing technologies around at the moment. There's resin printing, sometimes referred to as Stereolithography or SLA , that you covered in this video. Then there's the technology that melts plastic filament and squirts it out like a cake decorating funnel to build up layers, known as Fused Deposition Modelling FDM. The old wooden bodied printer in this video was FDM and current printers are several generations advanced from that, to the point where the layer lines are virtually invisible to the eye. FDM has almost none of the safety concerns of working with resin, the most dangerous part being the print nozzle heating up to 200c or more. Early FDM printers did have a fire risk, but almost all nowadays have thermal runaway protection as standard. FDM printers are just about reaching the "works out of the box" level of maturity, and I can confirm my latest printer, the Ankermake M5c gave exactly that experience. (Bambu Labs printers have a similar reputation) While some people have gotten resin quality miniature prints out of FDM printers, they are really better for larger items like Vehicles or Terrain. (deep breath) Second point: The temperature requirement you quote is overstated. 25c is actually higher than what I'd call the minimum optimal temp. Really for most resins it's 20-25c and even then I'd be comfortable going down as low as 17-18c. Even below that, it's not that printing is impossible. The lower temperature makes the resin denser and slower to flow and re-level itself after each print layer. The result is more failed prints. You can mitigate this though, by turning up the exposure time (and possibly slowing the lift speed) which purists say sacrifices print quality. But as demonstrated in this video, overexposing still produces acceptable quality miniatures. In fact, I always deliberately err on the side of overexposing to improve the chance of successful prints. I've found no problems printing in an unheated indoor room any time from June through to October, or "Resin Printing Season" as I call it. (breath in) Finally an observation. As rightly pointed out in this video, both types of printing have many, many variables, most of which people are completely unaware of. There are also more than one way to skin a cat. As a result, whenever you hear a KZbinr state with authority that there's only one best way to do something as an absolute truth - take it with a huge shovel of salt. Leaving aside those that just don't know what they're talking about what works for them with their printer, with their resin, in their climate, at their elevation and ambient air pressure...etc... may not work as well for you. Remove supports before or after curing, whatever suits you best. Develop your own workflow. This vid shows a pretty good setup and workflow with a three-bath cleaning solution. But after a little bit of use, there might be some other tools that could prove useful. I avoid the need to glove-up for every print operation by using tweezers and pliers to handle all uncured resin. And a silicon spatula is a good tool for stirring the vat and probing for debris that's kinder to the film than the plastic scraper. Good vid, though it did feel at times you were stretching to confirm your original bias against printing rather than reviewing in good faith where the current state of play (pun intended) is. But you did cover a lot of points that get glossed over that people should be aware of, even if the answer isn't a big issue.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Thank you for that in depth comment. A lot of it will help me out. This is my first “real” printer and the first time using one. However, I do refer to my original point that it’s not plug and play like a 2d printer and that’s what’s putting a lot of people off. Couple that with not knowing any long term effects of breathing in any of this and 3D printing needs to come a lot further forward. It’s moved on a great deal as you say but after 3 weeks of fiddling nothing printed at all, at any setting in my garage under 21 degrees. Whilst I persevered I can imagine many just giving up. I’m not the give in kinda guy so happy to take any advice. Personally I’d like these models even sharper so if you have any thoughts at all I’m all ears! 👍🏼

[@DrVesuvius70]

@@thestateofplay2023 Don't get me wrong, it is good to see an openly critical viewpoint to complement all the positive. But anyone who says 2d printers just work without problems clearly has never worked in IT support.... Sorry, where was I. Right! Granted 3D printers aren't as "out of the box" as 2D printers yet, we're getting closer. For FDM printing I would say my experience with the AnkerMake M5C was virtually there. With its app I could browse through its selection of pre-sliced tchotchkes, click a button and 90 minutes later have my own articulated chameleon toy, or whatever. Assuming I actually want something useful for wargaming, it's not much harder. Find the STL from wherever, feed it into the app and it'll slice & send it to the printer. If something goes wrong, the app has step by step instructions guiding you through how to clear a jam, plus links to videos for all sorts of maintenance tasks. With resin we're a little further behind, but there is movement towards things like heated vats becoming more common. One manufacturer at least has produced a printer that only accepts their own resin, to eliminate the need for tuning, but locked-in ecosystems like that have never proven popular. But the out-of-the-box goal is definitely being worked on. But given what 3d printing is actually doing, i.e. taking a design of your choice and on demand turning it into a physical 3D object you can hold in your hands, isn't it reasonable to allow the process needs a little more effort than is needed to put text on a page?

[@thestateofplay2023]

@@DrVesuvius70 So the Ankemake requires you to download an app, upload said model to the cloud, into the app in order to print it? hmmm. Seems a little long winded no? See what I mean about user experience. Or maybe I misunderstood. It's likely. I'd argue what 3d printing is doing is layering hundreds of layers on top of each other like a complicated wedding cake. That concept shouldn't take this many years to refine IMHO. It's like software engineers spending all their time on the backend to make it sing and dance and then totally forget a user has to actually use it. And when average joe tries, the interface is a total mess that no one understands. Been there, had to redesign that. Looking at many 3d printers over the last month or so I can say that many have got bits right. But none have got it all right. But instead of taking ideas from competitors and implementing they're doing that iphone thing and making teeny tiny changes that hardly make a difference at all. Is the iphone 11 really that different from the 15? Not really. But bouy there's a lot of money to be made in tiny changes. LOL

[@hohhan1978]

There IS some non toxic resin which doesn't have smell nor irritation! But it's russian made and its hard to buy overseas, its called Gorky Liquid.

[@fennoman9241]

I call bs, no uncured resin is non toxic. No smell also doesnt mean non toxic.

[@digadigado]

I think fff printing is getting pretty close nowdays to plug and play with the bambu labs whatever it's called (or I'm just hearing people justifying an expensive printer) Adam Savage on tested was pretty strongly outspoken about not liking 3d printing for his creative process cause of all the troubleshooting and he likes his bamboos

[@thestateofplay2023]

I agree that FDM is now almost plug and play but the quality is still very far off.

[@jaqssmith1666]

use metholated spirits instead of IPA. it's cheaper and works just as well.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah I just can’t stand the smell of mentholated spirits though. I’d be gagging all through cleaning. 🤣

[@krzysztofkurdziel6742]

Who washes their build plate? Swipe with paper towel to remove resin chipped during model removal and put it back in. Heating can be solved with brewing belt, or dedicated printer heater instead of that pointless filter inside. Enclosure can literally be a cardboard and duct tape with plastic window on the side too check the print. Ventilation system is needed, so that's fair, but on the other hand, 12v pc fan, some weak 12v power supply and flexible conduit are not expensive. That's what I did, looks a bit scuffed, but who cares if it sits somewhere out of sight. About the printer itself, pixel size is super nice, I'd personally throw that ACF film in the garbage where it belongs tho. Overall good small machine with potential for excellent prints

[@thestateofplay2023]

Brewing belt would be a good shoot but it’s not goi g to work on any of Elegoo new tilting vats. And they’re probably here to stay. Built in heating would be best on all machines. No heater fits inside this machine sadly. There’s not enough space. Even if you removed the filter. So the environment around d it needs heated and be fireproof. A cardboard box isn’t going to do that. Wife would kill me if I burnt the garage down! On the fan, yes. I’m pretty sure that’s all the creality one is at around the same price fully assembled. Saves anyone having to hook it all together which I was trying to avoid. Call me old fashioned but when I put together a setup I want it to last and be less ramshackle. 🤣 I guess I was attempting to show people a way to do that was all off the shelf bits, that was safe and could be done by anyone. Especially those who don’t want another hobby. 👍🏼

[@iangraham6730]

You should retitle the video to "Here, buy this printer"

[@thestateofplay2023]

Really? But being honest I’d buy a GKTwo….

[@skylineg6618]

Omg, I nearly wasted 75% of this video wondering why there are so many complaints when I realized he's talking about last years model. Weird they sent you a Mars 4 when every other video made in the past month or two has been about the Mars 5 that helps with at least half of these complaints.

[@thestateofplay2023]

Yeah I was confused when both the Saturn 4 ultra AND Mars 5 ultra came out soon after they sent me the 4. Having said this, they still did mint add a heater or ventilation tube into either of them which would pretty much solve everything. I really don’t know why heaters aren’t standard at this point when most of the world don’t have hot enough environments. 🤷🏼‍♂️