Umbreon vs Espeon - Who beats Crystal faster?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Regarding Espeon's Hidden Power Type: Ice is required for Lance and has the best general utility throughout the entire playthrough. Psychic does 75%-88.82% damage to the first two Dragonites and I need to avoid Thunder Wave at both of them. HP Ice manages Bayleef, Clair, Will, Crobat, Onix, Vileplume, and Lance. Regarding HP Fire & Water, these generally has significantly less impact due to the type matchups in the major battles of this game. They also don't materially impact the Lance fight. Espeon could use Curse for Snorlax. I did consider this. But I felt that it wasn't a good option because it cuts speed and exposes Espeon to powerful special attacks from Red's remaining Pokemon. With a Pokemon that is frail, that didn't seem like it was playing to it's strengths. Finally, lowering Accuracy and raising Evasion are completely different. Using Mud-Slap on Snorlax is not equivalent to setting up with Double Team. Because Evasion would have persisted throughout the rest of the fight. Accuracy helps against 1 Pokemon, Evasion helps against all Pokemon. That's why I restrict evasion and do not restrict accuracy.

[@TheLeviathan1293]

Something to consider about curse is, Espeon is not that frail when fighting special attackers.

[@jainabraina]

Espeon is nearly as specially bulky as Umbreon! If you look at Slowking, famously specially bulky, you'll find that Espeon has the same defensive stats on the special side. It's no slouch there!

[@graeff]

I'd try hp fighting, it would work well against dark types and snorlax :)

[@manemanen]

Maybe more Iron/hp up/protein investment for espeon next time dont know how many vitamins you feed in gen 2 in total but feel like you have a better red with the curse Stray since blastoise uses Rain dance alot and venasuar solarbeam or sunny day

[@gidan1128]

@@graeff HP fighting is physical - definitely not a good choice.

[@Will-ew8db]

Scott - Umbreon had Faint Attack in the Rocket fight vs. the Koffing and Weezing. It has slightly less power than Return, but it never misses. You would have easily won with using Faint Attack instead of Return.

[@tamlynloell]

And Koffing/Weezing have both less special defense

[@antoniocalado7101]

Came here to say the same 👍

[@chrisdaignault9845]

Yup

[@kalasrey1670]

I was screaming man, that was so painful for me to watch

[@mattulibarri6181]

I was also about to comment on that 😂 I thought maybe I was losing my mind and faint attack wasn't a move that always hit in gen 2

[@SaintoftheHonest]

Fun fact: Bite is the ONLY attack in the game that has ever changed between Phys/Spec TWICE. In gen 4, it went from Special to Physical, but people forget that it waz Normal in Gen 1, so it changed from Physical to Special in gen 2. On a related topic, losing access to Bite is gonna be huuuuuge for Espeon - you can learn it as Eevee before you evolve usually. I wonder what a Crystal run of all the Eeveelutions would be like if you started with the Lost Event Eevee for all three of them (Growth Eevee was distributed from irl Pokemon Centers in gen 2, but can't be transferred forward)

[@DennisTheZZZ]

I'm currently speedrunning Crystal with Espeon as Alt Main Pokémon (start with the Eevee from Bill, items in battles are allowed, regular speed), got a time of 3:51:53 though I'm sure it can have a time under 3:40:00. With Espeon evolving at level 36, thus having Bite and Psybeam before Chuck, it's a very fun route since you have to raise friendship as fast as possible. I even inspired some more experienced speedrunners to try it (I started about 2 months ago) and when you get that Espeon, it's pretty much a breeze.

[@calvinsimpson1301]

I don't think people forgot it was normal in gen 1 considering dark types didn't exist and bite did

[@tylerd1297]

@@DennisTheZZZ do you or anyone else have this posted on KZbin or twitch? Edit: nvm clicked your profile and see it lol tho I'd be interested if the other people is anyone I would know, or just personal friends of yours

[@tsawy6]

@@calvinsimpson1301 is the fact that bite is in gen 1 /that/ well remembered?

[@rikaniebangbang]

@@DennisTheZZZ I love your Espeon route! I've tried it myself and absolutely love it (though I add X Acc Zap Cannons for Blue and Red and switch on animations just because it's a fun animation). Took me a second attempt to figure out that Rare Candies need to be used in Goldenrod to get the extra friendship in the end haha

[@Grimlax22493]

The reason the female picnicker is in the corner facing the wall because she's on the phone and back in the 00s when you were on your cell you tried to be in a somewhat quiet area to not disturb others and hear the person better. Cell phones in the early 00s were garbage lol

[@TyrantofChaos]

Great video so far, 44:05 in. I hate to say that I audibly said “Use Faint Attack, it won’t miss!” when you were fighting that team rocket member who used accuracy lowering moves.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I think this is how everyone watching felt hahaha

[@sabrewulf6320]

I LOVE Umbreon. I got my very first one entirely by accident in Gold as well when it leveled up at night. I'd always play in bed after school. Back in the Crystal/Stadium 2 days, I had one with nearly perfect DVs (only Defense was 13). It solo'd the Round 2 Rival fight in Stadium 2 (i.e. Mewtwo, Lugia and Ho-Oh). Granted, they don't have the best movesets or AI, but it was a long and brutal battle and it felt SO rewarding. Moveset was Psychic, Faint Attack, Return and Moonlight IIRC, and Leftovers as the obvious held item. Back then I didn't know how busted Curse might have been for that fight. I was super happy that I could use one in Legends Arceus because of its stat system. Having effectively max EVs really helps tanky Pokémon in at least hitting hard enough to beat in-game stuff without sacrificing their tankiness.

[@gidan1128]

I feel like Espeon wouldn't have had so much trouble against Red if you had just ditched Psychic and given it the same curse treatment as Umbreon. It's sp def is good enough that it could have just set up against the Pikachu and then 2-shot the Snorlax with +6 return.

[@DennisTheZZZ]

Only problem is, that Pikachu likes to use Charm a lot, making setting up against it almost worthless.

[@sonshawnzy9975]

Curse is clutch on Umbreon . Curse substitute was a good tactic for me on Pokémon showdown

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Oh dear, would Espeon be good with rest, protect, curse, return?! Not another Pokémon…..

[@ShArifBraXtoN]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon I think that you could have kept psychic and ran curse, psychic, rest and return. Since Espeon already has good SpD, it could have survived a special attack and then gotten set up. I'd say probably set up on the Umbreon and not the Pikachu to avoid the charm. I know Espeon could cheese mud slap, but it probably would have been more consistent since you'd be super tanky even if you were missing attacks.

[@sonshawnzy9975]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon nah return is physical move . I mean I guess possibly but prob not

[@TheDarkFiddler]

Umbreon has worse STAB options and is a weaker attacker. I don't see it taking the first slot, but I don't see it being a massive blowout.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

Not to mention dark doesn't get a badge boost anyway

[@tylerd1297]

@@adventureoflinkmk2 Espeon doesn't get it until the 9th gym post league anyway and you have to go out of the way to get it. Still worth it though. A lot of people don't even know that there are Badge boosts in Gen 2 lol.

[@solidsnakeandgrayfox]

I've tried a challenge run with umbreon on crystal, it does great late game. Curse, moonlight, iron tail, mud slap, return. But it struggles with bugsy unless you have sand attack which can hit scyther, it struggles with Whitney, it can struggle severely with jasmine as mud slap is the only effective move up to that point.

[@adventureoflinkmk2]

@@tylerd1297 I had no idea there were badge boosts to specific types till I started watching Scott's Thoughts.. and where exactly do you get the dark type badge boost considering there is no dark gym leader

[@Carson_Neiss]

@@adventureoflinkmk2 There is no dark type badge boost. The only type without a boost.

[@bobjob2514]

You've been pumping these out like crazy! Thank you. No lie. I got them for Pokedex reasons, but they didn't enter my main party until they were forced on me in Coliseum. Poor moon pup...

[@ronaldgreig1748]

Umbreon has been my favorite pokemon since its release! Im so glad to see it do so well. Espeon probably could've got a faster time with curse, rest, return and psychic against red. You should do a short video testing that out.

[@codykaufman2835]

I feel Umbreon should’ve been considered better. The fact that it had no resets in the final play through shows how consistent it is. Espeon really relied on cheese and a little luck to finish the game. Just my opinion. Great video and big brain switching to hidden power ground

[@enitheway]

While I feel the same way, I also feel that since none of the other Pokémon (as far as I remember) had the treatment where the reset counter weighted more so Scott keeps the consistency up. In the bigger picture, results should be comparable and I'm glad Scott keeps it that way even if there are individual performances that should have exeptions.

[@panchovilla7355]

Umbreon also had significantly better luck especially with the critical against Bruno and flinch against poliwrath

[@codykaufman2835]

@@panchovilla7355 I wouldn’t say significantly better luck. I mean everyone has the same crit percentage in gen 2. Umbreon still could’ve won that without crits. Espeon really did need some luck to finish.

[@enitheway]

@@panchovilla7355 There's an argument that "having a better luck" is not same as "relying on luck." To clean that argument, there should be a follow-up video where Espeon tries to defeat Red with Curse.

[@craigyeah1052]

@@panchovilla7355 yeah I think Bruno was no problem but that Poliwrath was really lucky. It was a 4 hit ko without a crit and we can assume dynamic punch misses once and Umbreon will get 1 flinch. That being the case, especially factoring in the leer and chance of hitting itself, that's a fight Umbreon is more likely to lose than win.

[@SourSensationZ]

Huge Umbreon fan. Thanks for all the content you're creating!

[@aquana5]

:)

[@crazyoliver7877]

I love Umbreon. My favorite.

[@jesterbravo3317]

Excellent! I went looking for this video a few months ago and was disappointed that you hadn't done it yet. This is exactly what I wanted to see!

[@MimeJrD]

38:53 Can only find this on bulbapedia, but apparently morning sun, synthesis, and moonlight can heal twice as much depending on the time of day in gen 2. Kind of self explanatory, but for morning sun it’s in the morning. Synthesis though is during the day

[@harrymanocha4533]

Hoo boy I've been looking forward to this one. Your timing is great; I've got covid this week and it really wiped me out for a few days. Glad of the top notch content to watch by myself

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Hope you’re fully recovered now!

[@harrymanocha4533]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon yessir fighting fit thanks to you

[@moritzgattaz3884]

THANK YOU for this. Simply my two favorite additions in gen II!

[@GoldenDragonplay]

Watching this video a day late, but it sure is a nice birthday present to see two of my favourite Pokemon in one video xD

[@ktvx.94]

I think that for Whitney lowering her accuracy all the way might not be the most efficient way, since you want her to string a couple Rollouts so that she doesn't use Milk Drink. Also, I think that if you did 100 runs with each, Espeon would get the fastest single time but Umbreon would have a better average.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Agreed

[@kurtismacneil-allen4155]

The reason Morty used Gengar last is the same as how the Pidgey wouldn't use Mud-Slap because the AI determined Tackle would do more damage. Gengar's moves are Hypnosis, Dream Eater, Mean Look, and Shadow Ball. Two of which the AI reads as Umbreon being immune to. Three moves that can't damage Umbreon as Mean Look isn't and attacking move. This only leaves Shadow Ball which Umbreon resists. The AI guessed Night Shade would do the most damage and so chose Haunter instead.

[@emilydonegan3208]

I wonder if I’ll catch up on video backlog before that legendary beast race! I like these two a lot; Espeon’s oddly sleek design , with the whiskers and jewel is very cool, and alien looking, while Umbreon’s is simple and classic, with its pitch black fur and red eyes! Also, Dawn and Dusk are also the names of some of my favorite Digimon games, which I’ve actually done challenges in!

[@SkyEevee]

My favorite Eeveelution and favorite Pokémon ever is Espeon. I love using Espeon’s high special attack and speed. This video was really entertaining.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Glad the video kept you entertained!

[@jakeofjohto8285]

Dusk is the name ive always given my Umbreon! Umbreons been my fav pokemon since i accidentally evolved my eevee into it as a kid and it was also the first pokemon i ever bred with perfect ivs in HGSS. I still have that HGSS Dusk and bring him on all my journeys and save for 2 has every ribbon he can legally get. Thanks for your content as usual, makes long days at work or boring chore days a little more tolerable. Im happy to continue seeing your channel grow, alright imma keep watching the video now

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Glad you’re enjoying the vids!

[@drewvfox]

Bug being super effective against Dark is one of many Kamen rider references in Pokemon.

[@mikemckenzie3175]

This is why it’s good to raise an eevee into Espeon bite is huge it’s so fast so it makes a lot of Pokémon flinch and it’s effective vs psychic and ghost

[@brandonkilbourne76]

Absolutely stoked to come back from work to see my fav eeveelutions head to head

[@brandonkilbourne76]

Pre finishing video: Hope Umbreon takes it even with the disadvantage. Used that guy ALL the time as a kid!

[@dtayza5432]

Awesome to see the runs of my first two starter pokemon. I'm hoping Umbreon wins but I'm afraid that'll be tough with Espeon's damage output. Whichever way it goes I do want to say I am really enjoying the content this month. You have become my absolute favourite pokemon challenge runner and I want to thank you for all the time and effort you put into these videos. Keep up the great work!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

You’re welcome. It’s a joy for me to make these videos!

[@mickgorro]

27:25-27:28: "Umbreon is about to take a massive lead", but... but.... but that's Espeon!

[@yifun6187]

oh you spoil me scott, dropping multiple versus videos so close to each other. thanks for the incredible work as always!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

You're welcome

[@frostbite2890]

What a close result! I do wonder on Umbreon's time, though: you said you don't think you can get it much faster, but are you sure it's not possible to skip some more training throughout the playthrough and use rare candies earlier? After all, it seems like Red is very consistent and going to him at a lower level wouldn't cause issues.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I think that might be worth exploring. My biggest fear is damage ranges against Bruno. That’s a key pivot point for Umbreon.

[@TheOriginalJphyper]

These videos are perfect for passing the time. I've been snowed in for four days and my gaming PC broke down on day 1. You are helping to keep my sanity intact.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

That’s sounds terrible… hope it turned out already and the Pc got fixed!

[@TheOriginalJphyper]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon It did. Turns out the hard drive was failing. A technician managed to get everything transferred onto a solid state drive before it died completely. Now it's down again, but that's my own fault. I'm upgrading it and currently waiting for parts to be delivered. Thank you, COVID-19, for putting all of the local computer parts stores out of business...

[@brucekelso2024]

This is my favorite challenge of yours so far. Umbreon is one of my 6 favorite Pokemon, you gave amazing respect to these two, and Pryce really is the worst.

[@giuseppe177]

Never clicked so fast on a video. Love the content, you're doing amazing!

[@pommyadam]

I remember grinding an Eevee and waiting for 6pm to roll around so I could get an Umbreon I'd already beaten the game by that point, so was probably dex-filling, but remember pestering my parents about what time it was so I could boot up the gameboy and get it Rest, Curse and Leftovers on Umbreon is absurd - I'm pretty sure I'd just ragequit as an enemy trainer

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Imagine Karen with leftovers on her umbreon

[@Xhalo1183]

We are in Johto that means we say hi to Denis. Hi Denis. I figured Espeon would win but it is good to know my boi Umbreon is hanging in there with a good consistent performance.

[@pyriel6870]

Dusk and Dawn, *insert vampire movie pun here* lmao. Personally I love all the eeveelutions both in design and usability. They're all so cute lol

[@fortello7219]

I saw the community poll and did a little solo run with Espeon myself. Except that I changed it's level up moves to replace swift with bite at level 30. And I'll tell you what, having access to a 60BP dark move on Espeon added a LOT of consistency. (Eevee normally learns bite at 30 in gen 2) I had plenty of PP and speed to skip several PCs and had a strong counter to all the psychic types that could wall my full special set. I took HP Electric (70BP) and used that against all the flying and water types. Psychic tended to be effective enough against Dragonite that it could pull through. Steelix was the hardest part of the whole run. Even at level 38 with mud-slap, steelix's iron tail hit 3 times in a row consistently and gave me 5 reset to that alone. I didn't directly time it but I think the whole run took about 6.5 hours of in game time. But I was mostly checking what difference bite made, and it was a LOT.

[@Skajaw]

The editing and the layouts are amazing, props to you man

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks a ton!

[@kevinsips3658]

Great video Scott! Loved the huge improvement for ____eon in the 2nd playthrough!

[@lmr4403]

The times could be very different if elite 4 wipe means returning to the pokecenter, since Espeon's wipes on Karen would mean that you have to defeat the other e4's again.

[@ruthlesace]

I've been watching these for too long, I figured out the improvements you would make during the first playthroughs

[@braingaming8224]

When I was a kid playing these games umbreon was one of my favorite pokemom. When gen 3 came around and you couldn't get an umbreom I stopped playing pokemon for years. I didn't play a pokemon game until x and y

[@manemanen]

Also more attack investment/curse for espeon for reds snorlax?

[@havyn88]

Can't wait for the Leafeon and Glaceon video

[@tsunlastspock2206]

Thanks for giving Umbreon the run it deserves! I'm in shock that it was so close in the end, but Curse + Rest + Return is just *such* a strong set that feels like the devs intended it for Umbreon. In the end, glass cannons will be riskier but those risks will often pay off. The exp router being set up for GSC now should definitely help with future runs, too!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Exp router is a game changer! (I used it for Skarmory too, it really really helped with that run.)

[@EMoth76]

> the devs intended it for Umbreon The only real difference between Umbreon and Espeon is that Umbreon's physical defence is higher, they both have the same attack. Just saying

[@LilHaze117]

I just don't understand why you used Return instead of Payback, you'd have STAB on a Pokémon counter that literally was made for Umbreon, there's no other Dark type Tank.

[@tsunlastspock2206]

@@LilHaze117 Payback doesn't exist in Gen 2 Crystal, the move was introduced in Gen 4. Dark STAB for Umbreon in Crystal would be Pursuit (60 BP after STAB), Faint Attack (90 BP after STAB) or Bite *if* he allowed it from its Eevee stage (90 BP after STAB). None of those get close enough to Return's 102 BP from maxed out friendship. Additionally, in Gen 2 Dark type deals Special damage, which means it doesn't get boosted by Curse, which boosts Att and Def while lowering Speed, and Umbreon doesn't have any boosting moves for its SpAtt stat.

[@LilHaze117]

@@tsunlastspock2206 Wow I really didn't remember it like that. I remember using Payback cause it was slow and bulky, and Moonlight to recover health but if that was HG/SS my bad. That combo carried me tho, that I do remember 😅

[@Pyxis10]

I used Umbreon as a kid, mostly because I set the time to the opposite if what it was on purpose.

[@tesladrew2608]

For the rocket executive with the 5 koffings you can use faint attack when your accuracy drops, it doesn't miss (in later gens at least)

[@brentrobinson3275]

It doesnt miss in gen 2 also

[@nathanandsugar5252]

44:04- I think you missed some of Lance’s (underleveled) Dragonites. You need at least 25 on screen.

[@PolsDGas]

Another Good content delivery by Scott, as always 👌

[@kug0t]

It seems like Espeon should have just used curse, return and rest against red. It would be pretty tanky with curse and has attack equal to Umbreon and its special defense is pretty solid.

[@Offbreed309]

Glad this one was next, I love them both! 💚

[@legendarystormmartialartsg3573]

*Me just now watching this video* "Karen is going to be such a wall for Espeon. 😰"

[@Volti666]

Really enjoyed this one! Thank you Scott!

[@friedrichritter1978]

Pursuit hits while Umbreon is infatuated Sounds legit

[@shimauta619]

That optimized Umbreon run is really awesome.

[@dannyainsworth1421]

My fav pokemon umbreon! Feel bad for it being dark n also seeing all these psychic pokemon just running through the games with no issues.. getting boring to watch as you know they all just own it. Love the content been watching about a year now! Love the vs matches... just not when umbreon loses hahah!

[@eightteentwo]

I'm loving all the smooth editing

[@reapercarl5047]

I rearly like these runs it helps with my own solo runs, i was playin silver the other day an i kept gettin lost havin your optimized path to learn gives me a great base line

[@bortzanator3018]

7:21 She's in the corner because she's on the phone! (dont you stand in the corner when you are on the phone?) lol Your videos are incredible, I love how far you have come. I am anxious to see you do Gen4 stuff, but I know that's a ways off. So I might start doing it myself.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I can’t wait to do gen4. But there are a lot of technical problems to overcome for that to become a reality.

[@lukepittle8961]

Your channel really has grown on me. Keep up the great work

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Thanks!

[@lukepittle8961]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon love the depth you go into and also how you optimise your runs, it’s a breath of fresh air

[@natejeffcoat4403]

I love your content recently thank you Scott

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

You’re welcome! Glad you’re loving it.

[@n64_kfp]

I actually like Espeon better, but in this video I was rooting for Umbreon. Put up a heck of a showing

[@jmobraz]

The psychic dog fox cat thing... LMAO! Hahahaha! What a video! ❤️

[@CapnWilly]

Yes. This is the VS video I've been waiting for.

[@MrGoodCompany]

This video really surprised me. I didn't expect Umbreon to do this well. It's in my top 3 Eeveelutions, design-wise. So I am pleased lol.

[@EmeralBookwise]

Wow... gotta say. I didn't think this would even be a race. I thought Espeon would be the hands down winner, but after that optimization it was surprisingly close. As Umbreon is also a personal favorite of mine, this makes quite happy.

[@ok_iot]

i would like to suggest a series. or group vid. the 5 eeveelutions in fire red.

[@powwowken2760]

Jokes on you! My childhood self was a nightowl so I always had myself an Umbreon and instead never got an Espeon during a normal playthrough

[@wakingup4206]

I feel like you could have made red more consistent and faster for Espeon by using the curse rest return leftovers combo and setting up on the Pikachu or red's Espeon. But great video as always!

[@theSato]

Eevee boy summoning ritual complete, I'm here. Honestly these were about the results I expected. Espeon being fast and hitting hard meant it was almost destined to win, but Umbreon is also a chad pokemon. My "Luna" carries a lot of fights in my playthroughs!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I was thinking about you the other day, contemplating doing an Eevee run at some point again.

[@theSato]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Haha, I'm touched, friend. I'm looking forward to Gen 2 (or 4+) runs with Eevee. Gen 3 too, but its the one gen I never played. I have some really funky ideas for Eevee-related runs as well, but would require some game hacking.

[@MrT3L]

These are some of my favorite Pokémon! For Gen 2+ playthroughs, it would be cool if you could include the AI's PP for each move in addition to their stats and moveset.

[@Shifty319]

RE: Legendary dogs "sometime in 2023". I'm calling it now, that video is gonna be either NYE or New Year's Day as a special treat

[@pokepha8379]

Hey Scott, remember what you said about Umbreon's gender in this video? Don't forget about it when you get a pure special attacker one day! Low attack IVs also help with confusion, but not much, because the missed turn stings much more than hitting yourself.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

That’s a good point for Pokémon that never need to use physical moves

[@juanchirino4900]

A battle of true titans here.

[@altitudemanagement]

Overlay thoughts- for your pokemon's stats, I read them top to bottom, then left to right. Soi it's HP, then Atk, Def, Spd, SpA, SpD. For your opponent's pokemon, since they are all stacked in a row, it would make sense to me to put them in the same order. You do put the first three int he same order, but then instead of the 4th stat being speed, you put SpA and SpD next and Speed last. I think it would be a lot easier to read if speed was 4th instead of last because it would match your own pokemon's order perfectly then. Alternatively, you could match the order left to right first, then top to bottom. In that case, it would be HP, Speed, Atk, SpA, Def, SpD. I don't know if you've ever thought about the two layouts in comparison to one another, but since you don't label them on your opponent's pokemon, I have to look back and for to know which color means what, which leads to that slight usabilty issue.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Speed is last to be visually easier to locate on the right hand side. Mid-list is too hard to parse quickly.

[@altitudemanagement]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon that's a fair point. Given that you'd always want speed to be on the end, what about changing your Pokémon's Stat display order? Assuming you'd want to keep the pairs the same, you could move HP and Speed to the bottom. Then the opponent's pokemon could match if they were in either order 1. Atk, SpA, Def, SpD, HP, Speed 2. Atk, Def, HP, SpA, SpD, Soeed

[@Charbarabia]

Ursaring Donphan next ? :p With both them being mountain pkmns and could have potentially been early routes

[@leighmaynard3675]

@Scott's Thoughts can I assume correctly that Pryce doesn't get your seel of approval as a gym leader? haha

[@TheLeviathan1293]

I'd say Espeon. For the sole reason that offensive pokemon tend to deal better with stuff. That said, Espeon might have trouble with dark types. Not worst case scenario since it has good special defense, but still. Hidden power fire for steel types I guess?

[@ryapowa]

Snorlax ended up being the most annoying Pokémon for it to deal with. But then again, many Pokémon struggle with it

[@min3bubblegum]

All I've seen while scrolling through comments is how much people like Umbreon, so here is the Espeon appreciation comment. Fun fact: Espeon is my second favorite eeveelution after Flareon. And Unbreon is actually the third one.

[@MichaelJosephSpetsios]

I've been feeling this for a while, but seriously-Scott's videos are so much better than JRose. His consistency and commitment is far superior, and the optimized runs are so much more interesting. I love watching this channel grow!

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I appreciate the praise, but I’m hesitant about the comparison. His stuff is great after all.

[@MichaelJosephSpetsios]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon he definitely gets OG status, but to me, I see you putting in way more effort. Thanks for the great content!

[@shyguymd]

I may have been screaming for you to teach Shadow Ball to that Umbreon for the Jasmine + Radio Tower part.

[@ChaosWindScar99]

I'm so glad this came out so quick I'm happy to see it. Love your content, especially the Vs. Videos. Also loved the nicknames, they fit so well. Spoiler In your first Umbreon playthrough when you were struggling with the rocket executive, Why didn't you use faint attack after the accuracy drops? I don't think it would have done that much less damage and it cant miss. Ultimately it didn't matter I was just curious also super happy the second race was so close.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I forgot moves that have priority or bypass accuracy checks. I think I get hyper focused on the frustration of getting my accuracy lowered and then fail to see the solution sitting on my moveset. I’m working on it!

[@ChaosWindScar99]

@@ScottsThoughtsPokemon Happens to the best of us, I think I also get tunnel vision in tougher fights. Also thanks for replying :)

[@hloupaopica]

Hi Scott, have you ever thought about using egg moves in gen 2 and 3? You already modify your hidden power so I don't think it would be that weird to use egg moves. Although this would help certain pokemon more than some other which would maybe be unfair.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Egg moves and events moves for special videos / streams.

[@kb27787]

Wouldn't morning sun/moonlight with some PP ups be better than rest? After all, the heal is instantaneous, and you can just always set the clock to day/night as needed. Also, you could've used nightmare against Snorlax with Espeon... might do a bit more. Swagger/psych up combined with sand attack/flash to sweep is also interesting--it doesn't slow you down like curse.

[@DanielVictorDVZero]

I don't think it would be better. It would only have 8 PP. As it restores only 1/4 of the HP, it effectively restores much less than Rest, and it doesn't heal stats ailments. Plus, the time of the day doesn't change the amount of HP restore, not sure why you mentioned it. The only thing that does affect is sunny weather, and while Espeon can learn it, I still don't think it would be a good choice overall. Nightmare is a nice trick, but I guess it would still lead to a stall match anyway. Rest has a set duration, Nightmare has fraction damage, so in the end it would just keep using Rest. It could help when going for a critical Return though!

[@kb27787]

@@DanielVictorDVZero Now that I think about it, some move set like: swagger, psych up, return and morning sun/sand attack/flash sounds really good against Red. Swagger x3 on the Pika (since it can't do anything to Espeon anyway... only physical move it has is quick attack and I'm sure Red's AI would never use it except against ground types) then psych up which will erase all the charms if it ever decides to use it.; heal if needed if thunder is doing too much or use accuracy lowering moves. Then just sweep with return once set up.

[@DanielVictorDVZero]

@@kb27787 Yeah, that could work I guess! Curse is an option but it would make Espeon slower. I think there are some alternative movesets for Espeon, but he prefers Umbreon so it was easier to strategize for it instead...

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I think this could be explored more!

[@FifthPromise]

I kind of always roots for the underdog, and even though Espeon is my favorite of the two, and my prediction was an Espeon win i was really hoping for an Umbreon win. Can't believe how close it ended up being and how much came down to luck, so much so that I actually feel that the consistency should be considered worth more than the 1:40 difference; otherwise the leaderboard will always only be about the 4x times and never about the flavor of the Pokémon. Great run as always. This december has been amazing!

[@OrbitalDeathRay]

I find myself gravitating to more defensive Pokemon during playthroughs, and Umbreon is a no brainer. My favourite Dark type by far. What an absolute chad. 🖤

[@tiemen9095]

33:14 why not use Faint Attack? Koffing line has low SpDef and high Def so it is actually pretty good, and can't miss even with smokescreen.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I just made a mistake there

[@TooMuchDad]

I wonder if hidden power fighting could have been any good? Would help at Jasmine and Red? Losing ice against Lance would be rough, but could be interesting!

[@tjepic5256]

It was really cool when you fought the gym leaders you had your pokemon vs theirs on the screen hopping around

[@TheDanishGuyReviews]

7:25 She said she's on her phone, so l'm guessing she's hiding to not be in the way of travellers while talking.

[@noahlevine2838]

I just thought it would be cool to see you do a final battle at the end of your VS Videos where the two Pokémon battle each other. I'm not sure how that would be to program into the game, but it would be a fun way to think about the battle.

[@samin8ter]

Do you trade these pokemon to other games? You'd have tons of kick butt teams!!!

[@LTDextel]

7:23 she's on the phone which is why she's in the corner to not bother people. But, it's funny because she's still on the path so people walking by are probably still bothered by her being there. Fits with the hgss dialog with her too. Dennis!

[@FifthPromise]

Couldn't shadow ball have been a valid option for Umbreon since is it utilizes the attack stat?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Maybe? It isn’t the best offensive move because of its type. Return is more powerful and flexible.

[@MrGrisine]

The order of stats of your pokemon and the enemy pokemon is not the same (speed is your last stat and the 4th stat for your opponent). Can you please fix that? Love your content.

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I think you mixed the two up. I have changed where I display the player’s speed in more recent videos.

[@weebrahim]

I love how close this race was, Umbreon the best non legendary solo tank race pokemon!

[@desiccant]

Now I want to see how the other Eeveelutions do in Crystal.

[@GrimReaperX_89]

Perhaps rematches of your Johto runs in the later versions? Soulsilver or HeartGold, just to see if there would be any difference?

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

Eventually that’s the plan!

[@GrimReaperX_89]

Keep up the great content though, I absolutely love your work!

[@Maliki.1]

Been waiting for this one!

[@CHARLATAN000]

Hey Scott! Longtime viewer here. You’re basically responsible for reviving my love of Pokémon! I have always played the new games as they came out but your videos reminded me just how much I loved the older ones too. Thank you for making these videos! I’ve even started to do some solo runs myself! Can I ask how you set your overlays up? Do you edit it it all in post? What software do you use? I understand if you don’t want to share, but if you do I think a tutorial video would be great content! Either way dude, keep it up and thank you :)

[@ScottsThoughtsPokemon]

I use Gamehook and a program I made with HTML and Javascript to visualize this while I play. I intend to release it publicly sometime this year when it’s clean enough for others to use. Btw thanks for sharing. I’m so happy that I could revive your love of Pokémon!

[@bvd_vlvd]

Their performance was very similar so I don't think they should be in separate tiers. Hopefully some day you'll join them together, wherever that may be