Would you rather: A Man or a Bear? | Khadija Mbowe

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Go to ground.news/Khadija to get 40% off their Vantage plan which is what I use, or subscribe for as little as $1/month

[@DeborahWalkerXOXO]

Say "halves" or half" the way the English do - much easier. "Harf" or "harfs". Love this conversation, I want to share this with some men in my life but they hear "patriarchy" and they switch off. I hope they listen.

[@atommg]

can you drop a link or some references to more trans literature! ps, love love love all the videos ❤

[@MrBoltstrike]

In Response to 7:36 Absolutely yes. While my gender identity falls under Nonbinary Man, I do remember and actively question my early socializing. There's a constant fear of being a failure, of not being capable in one or more areas and being valued only for my capacity to provide in one or more areas than because I'm a likeable human. There's so much pressure to do more and be more primarily out of a nonstop competition with other masculine figures. And I've had this reinforced through a number of experiences throughout life. I'm not suggesting that we shouldn't have to provide *anything* in our social interactions, but existing and "being myself" hasn't been enough.

[@sensis8036]

Khadija khadija thx for video Now u know who ur real friends are....

[@zaicustis]

Man or polar bear

[@Florilegium1]

As a woman who walks my dog in the woods nearly every day, the most scared I’ve ever been was when I ran into some male hunters (out of season and not in an area safe to be shooting) who followed me all the way back out to the road while asking me questions about where I was from and why I was out there. A bear you can scare off or avoid, men are unpredictable and way more dangerous

[@markstriker925]

I get that u don't want strangers talking to you. But how do you know he would be a violent attacker.

[@Anngrl69]

⁠​⁠@@markstriker925 She literally stated they were hunting out of season and in an area people recreationally walk the trails. And then followed her out. At best they’re wildly irresponsible and stupid, at worst they were looking for victims to target.

[@victoriapulcifer6218]

​@@markstriker925 You've probably never been attacked by a bear before, so how do you know that bears are dangerous? Word of mouth, the commonality of such incidents, news reports of attacks, and plain common sense. It just so happens that most women also have their own personal stories about "bears" as additional proof.

[@markstriker925]

​@@victoriapulcifer6218this is so stupid. Because I know of people who have been attacked by bears. I interact with men more than bears.

[@Spirited_skiing]

@@markstriker925I used to live and work in the backcountry right next to a bear track, and I carried a gun for work. I’ve stared down bears in the middle of the night from 15 feet away on the job. A bunch of armed poachers harrassing me on the trail? I’d be unsettled too lmao

[@melissabailey5930]

My dad grew up with 2 older sisters and a twin sister. Then he got married to my mom and had 2 girls. He would always tell my sister and I "few men can be trusted." This came from him being friendly with some guys, having a nice time, and then they would come out with a random nasty comment about women. From the outside he may have looked like the typical "masculine man" cause he would be working on cars all day and worked in construction. Very hyper-masculine fields, but if you just talked to him for a bit you'd realize he was just a lil nerd who loved puzzles and philosophy. He passed 4 years ago. Since then a number of my male cousins have told me that they strive to be a man like him. Kind, understanding, a listening ear, empathetic. So as he was saying "all men ARE trash" he presented to the young men around him what a man could be. He retired a year before he passed. Between fixing cars and helping the family he would legit watch youtube. I think he wouldve loved this channel and particularly this video. I can see him getting all pumped to discuss masculinity and gender roles with my sister and I, sitting on the kitchen floor with our coffee. 💕 Kk. Im crying now. Bye. Love you. 😢

[@pierrechildress8875]

That post put a tear in my eye. Sorry for your loss, but he lives on. He sounds like the kind of guy I would have enjoyed as a friend. But man was he right, most men are capable of being dangerous if things go badly in a relationship. Ladies beware.

[@Iamhere829]

I'm sorry for your loss ❤❤

[@sharonbaker3007]

So very sad and sorry for all who love your Dad. So many of us long to have had a Dad like yours….big hugs💙

[@ericaj4494]

Sorry for you loss, they sounded like a wonderful person to have in your corner.

[@redmist2053]

He wasn't so empathetic if he said that "all men are trash", in my experience, the men who said that are the ones I don't trust.

[@phastinemoon]

The Man vs Bear debate just makes me think of zombie movies. No no - hear me out: ANY zombie movie starts with a small group of survivors facing off against the zombified monsters, and there’s a threat of being eaten alive, yes - but eventually, the story reveals that the real DANGER comes from the OTHER PEOPLE. Be it someone in the survivor group becoming paranoid and power crazed and messing up in a way that ruins it for everyone, or outsiders who come breaking in and trying to hurt the survivors. Zombies? You know what they’re about, but they’re likely JUST gonna wander around, maybe try to chase you, but that’s about it. Other people? Will they be there to help you? Trick you and steal all your supplies? Take over your base and throw you out to the wolves? Start a cult inside the safe haven (that always ends up becoming cannibals for some reason)? Try to assault the women and girls because they feel entitled and believe they have the “responsibility” to keep the species going? It’s the basic “humans are the real monsters” trope, but in the real world

[@cassidygiven]

based comment

[@ericaj4494]

Another perspective that's just golden

[@avamin.s]

yup yup yup

[@Pachitaro]

*REAL*

[@Spamhard]

This is a big part of it. The 'man' part of the argument is legit and adds more to it, but also just the human part of it can be a terrifying concept as well. If I'm alone in my camp at 2am andd it's pitch black outside and I hear rustling and footsteps, I'm gonna hope it's a wild animal. You know why a wild animal would be there (most likely foraging for food). But a human? What intent can a human have to knowingly be stumbling around someone elses camp at 2am in the pitch black? Nothing good, most likely.

[@digdoug5125]

Because i am an insecure man who pays a lot of attention to these conversations from the sidelines, i struggle with a kneejerk reaction of feeling rejection from the man vs bear conversation. I really liked the “bowl of m&m’s but some of them are poison” analogy because i could hide behind being “one of the good ones” i see now that it is cowardly to do so, and that I must take an active role in proving that i can be trusted by taking responsibility for my whole identity as a man. It hurts to be associated with fear and anxiety from the perspective of women and femmes, but i can make a difference as an individual. I needed this video. Thank you.

[@hikariluanGC]

Thank you for hearing and understanding. As a gay femme man, we need more men of your kind. I know it is a lot of work and that it's pretty hard to do what you are doing. I can only hope you find people that see that and value the work you're putting in yourself to be a better person in this world.

[@treasureobasuyi894]

What a bunch of losers.. Man up!

[@raykarpp]

I see you have a kind heart, you know you are not a bad man, thats why you feel hurt being seen that way due to others actions. Nothing will change womens thoughts and cautions, its just safer that way, evey human has a right to find a way to be safer and being aware of trusting men actually helps. Its deeply sad the world is this way, so much women and men suffer in the hands of soulless people. Men or women, we are always facing sexism and feeling bad bc of it. I am a woman and honestly id choose a bear, but i empathize with you. I like to think of it like, animals, cats, birds, even dogs can be scared of me, and for good reason, im a human the worlds top preditor, im taller, bigger, stronger and capable of great harm to even a cat, i have control, so i completely understand if a nice looking cat or dog is scared of me, i would still care for them, and protect them, as a human its our duty to protect and take responsibility for our power over other living things. As a man id imagine is similar, but not the same as women can talk and life revolves around how men and women view us, but this is just for perspective

[@digdoug5125]

@@hikariluanGC @raykarpp your kind words mean a lot! Getting in touch with some old friends and reading Tuesdays with Morrie, then The Will to Change (twice now lol) have really changed my life for the better. I am really trying to live every day with more compassion and less shame. (John Bradshaw’s The Shame that Binds You is up next) I will be singing my praises for these books to anyone who will listen from now on, as a resource for understanding the unique differences in struggle that men must understand about themselves in order to be better allies in the common struggle against the dominant culture we all share in

[@randomhuman5374]

Words cannot describe how proud I am of you for coming to this conclusion. It's a hard realization to admit to yourself, and as a woman, I sincerely thank you for it. I wish you a good journey through self-discovery.

[@mprpdx]

As a solo traveler, I’ve stayed in many primitive and backcountry camp sites by myself and I’ve most definitely thought about this question many times. Let me tell you something, when you are in a tent, in the middle of the nowhere, and you hear a questionable rustling outside, as a woman and horror movie fan, I pray it’s a bear. Bears are meant to be there, a human bumping into your site, with no one else around, likely has bad intentions. The bear wants food, you just happen to be around. The man, most likely wants you!

[@ReaperCet]

You pray it's a bear vs a murderer. And then you make the jump from any human you encounter automatically being a murderer. It's assuming that the man would assault you immediately because they *could* While also assuming that the bear wouldn't.... Even though it *could*

[@lorenleblanc6434]

But what happens when the bear thinks food = you? Honest question, is there a worse fate than being eaten alive?

[@ZabivakaPirate69]

I think a lot of guys forget that *bears generally avoid people*, the bear wandering into your camp site is gonna leave you alone once it sees you. Bears typically avoid people iirc!! People who go into woods a lot wear bear bells, because the bears will hear the bells and avoid the people!!

[@augustaseptemberova5664]

@@lorenleblanc6434 unless you're in the arctic, the odds of a bear choosing you for a meal are astronomically low. the overwhelming majority of (non-arctic) bear attacks against people is territorial / defensive in nature, not predatory. if you travel bear country, rangers will instruct you to stick to beaten paths and to be noisy, especially if you're travelling fast (mountain bike). bears try to avoid people, but will attack if startled. when they hear you from far away, they're not gonna be startled. the ones that are territorial do not set up territories around paths travelled by people. there are trash bears as an exception, which unfortunately learned that where there's humans, there's also easy food. but those are interested in your food, not you. they will usually approach when you're asleep, and just rummage through your stuff, trash cans etc. lock your food away in special containers and don't keep any food in your tent, and you'll be fine - and do not confront or startle the bear lol. I'm not a bear expert, mind you, just speaking from my own experiences, and what rangers told me. and i never had to use it, but, there s always bear mace.

[@aitzepe]

​@@ReaperCet We mostly pray it's a bear vs a r*pist. Being r*ped is way more common than being killed, of which we also aren't big fans, but again, it is less frequent than r*pe. And then we make the jump that a man who finds us by ourselves where nobody else is around could easily choose to do whatever he pleases to us just because he can and there isn't much we can do to avoid it. Also, I may be misinformed, but I've never heard of a bear r*ping any human being. Correct me if I'm wrong. And yes, if the bear could kill me, so could do the man. And if the man could leave me alone, so could the bear. There's no reason to suspect the bear will be more dangerous when it is men that hurt women daily. Stop the bullsh*t dude.

[@emilynelson5985]

I know women who have gotten rid of bears just by shouting at them, you shout at a guy and it usually just escalates things.

[@markstriker925]

Guys aren't bullet proof. And bears have survived gunshots to their face.

[@Iamhere829]

Lol yes 😂

[@Spirited_skiing]

A lot of people are really overestimating the danger of bears lmao, 99% of human-bear encounters are a bear smelling or hearing a human and then just avoiding them lol It’s also a lot easier to tell when a bear is going to be aggressive or predatory.

[@Sing_A_Rebel_Song]

Also bear spray works on bears, pepper spray just makes guys angry

[@Sing_A_Rebel_Song]

@@Spirited_skiingfr bears leave you alone if you leave them alone. Guys hunt you down

[@Lyryn2214]

There are hundreds of trails into the woods, up onto Glaciers, away to remote cabins and down along the sea where I live. I have encountered bears as a matter of routine. I know how to behave and I haven't had a single issue with a bear. I once disturbed a Mama Bear and her cubs while we were all enjoying Salmonberries; she sent her cubs up a tree, turned, and watched me as I calmly walked backward before turning to leave, singing softly that I meant her no harm and apologized for my disturbance. On those same trails, a random man grabbed my breast in passing, and another pushed me into a big rock and rubbed up against me. My dog bounced out of the woods a bit grumpy. I picked up my walking stick and left. Men have blocked my path and forced conversations, followed me on trails, and refused to respect my words. I once had a trio of men scare me enough that I turned around to my car because they said, "Come on, baby. What happens in the woods stays in the woods." I was accompanied by my super friendly 120 Rottie/lab mix who stayed in a close nose-to-thigh heel all the way back. I have also met men who were lovely, companionable, and who became occasional companions. I will also note that going out hiking/camping with men can result in uncomfortable assumptions about my sexual availability to those men. An issue that never arose with my Bi or Lesbian companions. Btw, a pair or trio of women can be targeted as well. I respect bears. I know how to behave around bears. Men...not so much..

[@FencingMessiah]

You've had infinitely more interactions with men in your life so absolutely nothing to you or even be kind to you. If you had that many interactions with bears you'd be dead by now

[@disgruntledmoderate5331]

I am so sorry that happened to you.

[@Robiness]

Yeah...Idk if it exists in English but we have a saying that 'Opportunity makes a thieve' and I'm inclined to believe that.

[@emexdizzy]

Your stories are why I keep trying to explain to folks who don't like the outdoors why bears aren't the threat they imagine. You usually have to be really stupid or extremely unlucky to so much as get slapped by a bear, let alone mauled, but all you have to do to get a man chasing you is exist as a woman.

[@bajanzelly]

Where do you live?

[@takatotakasui8307]

30:36 "Traditional socialization teaches girls to filter their sense of self worth through connection to others, often at great cost to themselves. While it teaches boys to filter their sense of self worth through performance. Neither sex learns about true intimacy." - Terrence Real, How Can I Get Through To You

[@risxra]

You getting distracted by your cats doing literally anything is such a mood lmao

[@KhadijaMbowe]

CAUSE HOW CAN I NOT??? 😩

[@ericaj4494]

I'm starting to think most pet parents do this because I'll be chillin with one of the fur babies and while they're just existing, usually sleeping, my heart aches at the thought of their absence and *UGH* 😭 I find it comforting to know I'm not alone in this experience

[@TylaStark]

​@KhadijaMbowe and we so appreciate you actually turning the camera to show us instead of editing it out 🥰 those sweet sweet floofs

[@439801RS]

​@@KhadijaMbowethere's truly no other way

[@lyndonwesthaven6623]

Special episode where she talks as usual, but while filming Lydia (we'd all be too distracted)

[@jsamadams]

I think people are missing the entire point, you know what a bear is going to do, whereas men have shown a propensity to act like they’re on your side when it is actually the opposite

[@deathdragoncat]

Thinking deeply is a skill not many people have learned and honed. A bear is predictable and really will only do two things: attack or leave. When you mention a man can do so much worse they act really confused as if they don't remember than tons of men assualt, r4pe, torture women which in many cases is worse than death. On top of that your chances of your attacker (man) going to jail for his crimes are so low but a bear that attacks you and you survive is likely to be hunted down. Or you could even be forced to carry your assaulters child etc. At the very least a bear will kill you for food, but we literally have examples of men doing so much worse for no reason other than hating women.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@deathdragoncat I’m just gonna repost this here since you’re apparently taking “logic” and “thinking deeply” in the situation… It quite literally doesn’t by every metric of logic I can think of and have heard ppl say. Let’s run through how A) “I know that I’ll die with the bear it’s predictable. Men are unpredictable.” - this doesn’t make much sense since predictability doesn’t make any gurantee of justification of an outcome. I can know for a fact I’ll die via the death penalty compared to prison but assuming prison to be worse than death would be silly depending on the range of prisons and the higher likelihood of being able to survive relatively okay in most as compared to total annihilation with death. If assuredness of death is assumed to be preferable it would imply prison or the man as the example, would more often than not be worse than death which is just less probable objectively. B) “bears often time don’t harm or kill ppl compared to most women dying by husbands aswell as sexual assault and grape stories” - well even best case scenario we take black bears which are most likely to be the least dangerous. The bears have a population so small as compared to the entirety of 3.5 billion ppl of which due to the law of averages would be either a regular guy or non dangerous to you with more of a likelihood of fighting back. Again averages don’t make this logical since you’re more likely to suffer through the bear in the woods than you are to have a psycho predatory male in the woods rather than the average Joe C) “I can’t fight off the bear and can accept my fate and the man can draw out the level of pain and suffering” - whilst I won’t comment on if sexual assault and murder of which humans can do would be objectively worse here. Ppl need to know more about bears. Bears when fatally mauling or killing ppl of which the unpredictability is still more than present. Hold down their prey, meaning you, by the stomach and rip you apart and eat whilst you can’t move and don’t die from immediate blood loss since the stomach doesn’t have that much. You go into shock after agony after a few minutes. Wake up then repeat for hours. Which at the very least is up there with duration and savagery of which any human male could do. D) “bears don’t attack or eat humans. Look at the statistics for bear attacks” - yeah this is a statistic made in a vacuum not in comparison with the entire potential choice of 3.5 billion ppl most of which won’t do anything near or even attempt to do anything to you. And this is a misleading idea on bears anyway. Polar bears actively hunt and predate on humans. And again with the comparison scale it’s pretty obvious the likelihood of this is higher than that of the human. Bears usually avoid humans but in the entire population with mothers protecting cubs or again flat out hunting you which can and will happen more with this comparison via probability makes this illogical. E) “men are more scary. Don’t you know every woman has an assault story” - this is unfortunately tragic but comparing the entire population as a potential with bears isn’t going to highlight that in terms of logic or empathy. It just comes across as sexist and only makes sense to women suffering the trauma of these events and trying to rationalise a demonising comparison of which isn’t men. But predatory men. I can keep going but for now those are the most common retorts. It doesn’t make. Any logical sense to anyone thinking about it for more than 5 seconds

[@deathdragoncat]

​@justjoshua5759 What a while lot of nothing you just posted. Men in every country and culture across the world take the lead in all violent crimes and have to be taught women are people. If you are telling me my chances out of all the men in the world that I'll get a good one who is not misogynistic you're dead wrong lmao. Men dont even get punished for their actions statistically. Men also are the leading cause of death for pregnant women funny little fact.

[@ZabivakaPirate69]

​@@justjoshua5759Dude. It's obviously not logical. As a woman I can agree with your points of logic. Statistically, you're better off with a man (depending on different variables, in some situations it'd be worse) but women *feel* like the bear is the better option. You aren't going to make women stop feeling unsafe around men by arguing the logic of the situation. Trying to argue that women are being sexist or illogical is actually going to reinforce that distrust of men. Because you are seeing a situation in which women feel unsafe, and your response is to prove them wrong.....

[@kirbst0mp]

​@@justjoshua5759i feel like you're ignoring another extremely common reason, which is that bears live in the woods. they belong there, so it isn't weird that they're there. whereas an exceedingly common theme in all the media we consume is 'stranger danger' and 'anyone in the woods is a creepy horrible murderer'. beyond that, women are often taught, most ardently by the men in their life, that men are the most dangerous thing a woman can be involved with. i'm not saying it isn't hurtful because i'm sure it is, but it is the next logical step from 'avoid strangers', 'anyone in the woods is scary ' and 'men are dogs who only want one thing and they will do anything to get it'.

[@kitty_visionary_meow]

It continues to be hilarious to me that men would rather argue with women about their choice than self-reflect on WHY women are saying "bear."

[@shaunamichele]

Exactly. Men, constantly operating in their ego, don't care why.

[@MalesAreDemons]

Men attack women daily yet other men are MUTE

[@Fraggle-h7o]

I should self reflect on why I am incorrectly perceived as dangerous because of things other people that share a characteristic with me have done? That type of thinking is the bed rock of racism and bigotry in general.

[@eli10589]

​@@Fraggle-h7othat is not the bedrock of racism or bigotry. 🙄 oh pls.

[@lamaziqali2121]

EXACTLYY

[@lunanyx8592]

I started this video very angry. "How dare they even suggest that women somehow share blame in this issue." The more I watched and listen to what you had to say, the less angry I was and the more I realized that there are things I can do on my part and thoughts I have that aren't healthy or helpful. I really appreciated this video.

[@KhadijaMbowe]

And it’s okay to make space for your anger without judgment 💕

[@AR-md1zq]

And verily ,the women who chose bear got death threats from men...

[@T.JacobMain]

This is peak irony lmao

[@Laquia]

WTF?! I'm angry those sexless incels ran her off when she speaks about topics on trans people and bisexuality!!! No wonder she hasn't been active in the KZbin sphere!!! I love her and her content!

[@trashpageant7861]

Of course smh

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Yep, and plenty of people who did not know how bad it was had their eyes opened by that very response from those men!

[@bgos4727]

Of course. Men obliviously respond with violence. 🤦🏽‍♀️Bear>>>>

[@alicecordova-potter6251]

The craziest mental gymnastics to me is when men think that women don't get that bears are dangerous. We both need to seek to understand each other's viewpoints to get to a better place but I think this prompt blew up because it makes it very clear how disconnected some men are from female viewpoints. *edit*: My comment that I'm a female soldier (in response to the childbirth vs war debate) keeps getting downvoted to oblivion by trolls, so while I truly believe these guys are just poking for a reaction, I do feel the point is important to the discussion. Also, it may interest you all to know that in the US Army, female soldiers are statistically more likely to come to harm at the hands of their battle buddies than due to enemy action.

[@efghd2624]

Or them acting like bears are blood thirsty and just attack people on sight. There's a 1 in 2.1 million chance of being attacked by a bear, bears don't prey on humans, bears won't even eat a person unless there's literally no other option for food. And they're still like "yOu'Re CoMpArInG uS tO a viCiOuS pReDaTor" as though they're not being compared to an animal that usually leaves people alone and minds their business. They're hurting their own feelings on this.

[@beybladebaby]

most men don't even read books if they're written by women so not a surprise really

[@CardsNHorns04]

Exactly. And yes, patriarchy is the problem here. Men may not have their physical safety threatened like women do but their emotional and psychological safety is almost always threatened in a society that tells you to “man up” when you feel unsure and unsafe. My best friend and ex-girlfriend got together, she dumped me for him. While I have no proof of infidelity, they talked all the time and I barely got any connection with her and him towards the end. While I had a number of men tell me that was not okay, many others insulted me for it. I was in my last semester of high school and frankly, it was awful. Then in college, I saw it consistently where girls (and guys) would go after their partner’s friends. Or they leave their partner for the “best friend” of the opposite sex. I get it, it happens. It sucks and it’s a loss. But it took me YEARS to get over that trauma, and I know I didn’t treat women well during those times. But I see these gender wars not at pointless, but that people do not understand the other side’s reasoning for their lack of trust in the opposite sex. As Khadijah put in her video, men are viewed as more disposable. If our community faces a threat, women expect ALL men to defend them from that threat, which is usually men. So you have to sacrifice your life for a society that believes you are more dangerous than a bear? I know that’s an exaggeration but it does show that I think many women can unwittingly take that sacrifice for granted and instead use their trauma to justify treating men in general with disdain, but then don’t understand why men, using their trauma with women, treating women with disdain or even worse. I don’t think we get to a better understanding and a better world until we try to understand how ALL of us need to look after ALL of us.

[@Asenueh]

We KNOW bears can be dangerous, but in a situation where it's just you in the woods and no other information about how you're there, why you're there, and wherher you'd actually encounter the man or bear in your vicinity, then the scenario favors the bear. The bear belongs in the forest.

[@vbrown6445]

@@CardsNHorns04 I very much understand the point that men are seen as disposable and are asked to risk their lives in dangerous situations, and how this would make you feel. I would like to point out that giving birth kills as many women (maternal mortality) as men killed in action in the military annually (not the same percentage, but the same number). One action (giving birth) is seen as natural and an everyday occurrence, and the other (going to war) is seen as a heroic sacrifice. And in the past, giving birth was even more dangerous. It has never been looked at as being heroic like going to war.

[@diml664]

Good example from Finland: yesterday a 15-year-old girl was graped and killed by a 19-year-old guy in the forest "seemingly at random" during her mile long walk home. A headline like that has never been written here about bears and Finland is full of them. Bears are internationally the safer option.

[@Anngrl69]

That’s awful. I genuinely view grape followed by murder as two deaths. The first through violation and torture, and the second as the ending of a life. It’s terrible a girl on her short and routine walk home was subjected to that torture and death. For what reason? The deteriorated mental health of another near-child? Our societies need to do better

[@bilis2866]

just say rape jesus christ

[@TENNSUMITSUMA]

so no proof, just a claim, ok! You mind telling me how many instances of women getting attacked and eaten by bears there are in finland?! probably not since they're gone, and it would be more or less impossible to prove it was even a bear!

[@rosettekalombo3072]

Now let's talk about all these Americans female teachers who are sleeping with kids under 13

[@trashpageant7861]

@@Anngrl69 it’s not deteriorated mental health. It’s the standard. I think women really need to come to terms with male nature. This is their normal. It’s scary but it’s better to realize this than to stick your head in the sand about it.

[@aaj002]

As a Black woman, I understand why men's feelings are hurt: They're being judged before they speak or take action for a trait they can't control. While I think it's always wise for women (everyone) to sit with and unpack their trauma, it's not going to make the world safer for them. Be opened minded, but protect your well being first should be everyone's mantra, and no woman's openness to a man's hurt should make her vulnerable to his violence. Ladies: Listen and connect to the men you know and trust, and even the trustworthy men you're getting to know, but you should never endanger yourself to hear someone out, hurt feelings or otherwise.

[@worldadventuretravel]

It only takes one bad man to end up in the trunk of a car. And a lot of them are the ones women connected to and thought they knew first. The fact that men think women's feelings of unsafety around them, clearly expressed in this hypothetical, is a "debate" is the entire problem and why women all say "bear." But the people that get it don't need this explained, and no explanation will help the people that DON'T get it because they simply don't care.

[@Amaipuppy]

That's the problem, they aren't thinking about anyone else. Every man knows if he's the guy women are talking about. I've never seen a single good man say he was personally offended, because he knew those men that women fear are not him.

[@magnoliaskogen]

"you should never endanger yourself to hear someone out" !!!!!!!! I so wish younger me had been taught this

[@lexa2310]

There are fewer attacks from strangers because women are already so cautious around every man, but statistics show that even those you trust can mean you harm. Is the only thing you can do really put your hope on good luck?

[@shizz3907]

@@AmaipuppyOkay as a black man should I listen to a racist go on and on about black men but then be okay with it because I know intrinsically that “I’m one of the good ones”? Like I’m frustrated because around this man vs bear conversation all of the crime stats people were quick and EAGER to point out, people saying “you never know which one of them is one of the good ones” etc. is literally the same sort of rhetoric that racists use to justify profiling black men using actual crime statistics as well. And no one here would justify the profiling of black men based on crime statistics. But everyone here is apparently okay with profiling all men. The fascinating part about it is that ultimately you end up back at profiling black men the most! We live in a white supremacist society and women have been told that black men are the most dangerous. If it’s okay to profile all men then black men definitely will get the worst of it 100%. It’s called intersectionality. Next time you see a racist white Karen profile a black man I don’t want to hear about it. This hypocrisy has been a huge mask off moment for a lot of people in the left.

[@taylork7530]

People don’t “let’s hear both sides, while also not listening to the victim in good faith” over a bear. They also don’t pull the “well, they were nice to me, so what did YOU do wrong to provoke them?” card for a bear. Also, bears are known to mind their business if they’re not bothered. You don’t engage, and they leave you alone.

[@DumplingDoodle]

I mean, the latter example is kinda legit. Bears generally don’t attack unless provoked. Unlike men.

[@Fraggle-h7o]

I wouldn't use that logic with a grizzly. Those mf go off for a lot of reasons that have nothing to do with provocation. And they will kill people

[@PinocchioDread]

This is low key giving off reactionary feminist vibes. Can we for once hear both sides to see where the disconnect is? Don’t know why people have this urge to further dichotomize men & women

[@calicoathena]

​@@PinocchioDreadare you intentionally misreading their comment or?? Bc they didn't just complain about ppl saying "both sides" they complained about people who will say "both sides" but then not actually listen to the victim at all. So saying both sides but not practicing it

[@msunje9862]

@@PinocchioDreadI hope you are trolling

[@BrutalSnuggles]

Bears are clearly friends. If not, why friend shaped?

[@KhadijaMbowe]

😂😂😂

[@emilyrln]

Username checks out 😂

[@FRT2]

A black bear and their cub got into my condo community, I have never seen so many people suddenly decide they wanted to be outside. The next day someone found that the black bear was messing with the trash and recycling area, because nobody actually called animal control. We had random men enter the community and even though nobody actually knows if those men are actual resident, we always get 10 community post about suspicious men and multiple saying that they have called the cops to report them. Every couple of months, there is hysterics over a men in the community some are residents some are not. But everyone feels more calm with having bears around .

[@justjoshua5759]

Unknown ppl in general. Men more specifically tbf but ppl. Would cause this concern in most communities. Black bears have a scaredy-cat reputation so it makes sense

[@FencingMessiah]

Black bears are somewhat more docile than grizzle or polar bears. But those people are dumb. If it were hungry it would have attacked

[@lol.3460]

@banquetoftheleviathan1404nah even in the hood we don’t know your car we’re staring you down. Who are you? What business do you have over here? That’s just humans being cautious of newcomers in their territory

[@Jane-oz7pp]

​@@justjoshua5759 literally nobody is calling the cops on a woman for walking, unless she's black.

[@Jane-oz7pp]

​@@FencingMessiahPolar bears RARELY interact with people, on account of they live in the Arctic. As for Grizzlies, well now the statistics still say they're not nearly as dangerous as the average man.

[@dorrud]

Literally was reminded of the bear v man scenario at work today when a girl was "pranked" by being shoved into the freezer while guys held the door closed. It was for about 10secs. And she laughed about it, but honestly I'm not sure she had much other of a choice about it.

[@sarahomotoye3691]

Omg I'm horrified😮 that's terrible

[@passiveaggresivesquirrel2052]

its either laugh about it or get laughed at.

[@ToplessTopics]

@@passiveaggresivesquirrel2052 or much, much worse.

[@johannesstephanusroos4969]

Men literally do this to each other, so you're crying about her being treated like a friend/man

[@Callimo]

​@@johannesstephanusroos4969 Ayo. And how many men are revealing that they feel unloved and discomnected in their friend groups again?🤔

[@decati31]

speaking as a male csa victim, it's hard to get help and find support in a society that refuses to view you as a victim in the first place. something that ive noticed is that victimization and masculinity are at odds with eachother.

[@vangoghsotherear4114]

patriarchy hates victims of any gender. as an AFAB i feel my femininity is in question if people find out I'm a victim. Like suddenly I know longer need to be handled with care. women have a saying "don't tell men you date your past trauma." because we know people will use it against you more than support you. other women will also look down on you for being a victim whether they been through it or not if you express it youre disgusting and weak. looking for attention and somehow a wh0re as well.

[@blamethebillionaires]

men cause victims

[@SheilaMakena]

I empathize with you and the trauma I am sure you experience everyday. This is the reason why we need to get rid of patriarchy as a system, because it leans so much towards power for the man that it offers nearly no consideration towards the mental and emotional challenges that men go through. Even worse, like you have said, the idea that a man can suffer at the hands of another must only mean that he is weak or incapable of "being a man". I blame patriarchy completely for this.

[@ArturGlass.C]

Word. It's rooted in sexism too. A lot of people think vulnerability means weakness and weakness is inherently feminine. You're a victim that means you're vulnerable, that means you're weak, that means you're feminine. I know a lot of csa victim use the terms "survivors" instead of victim to avoid that discourse but for myself I tend to revendicate the victim part like yeah I was helpless and vulnerable and I'm still vulnerable at times. That's just a fact. We can be strong just as well, most of us are. They're not antonyms.

[@myablack1871]

Those victims were attacked by men .again the reason why I choose a bear

[@renaigh]

of course I'd rather encounter a bear with his husband studying mushrooms in the woods.

[@Iamhere829]

😂😂 yes samee🎉

[@B.Harper7]

Omg I love you, this was a nice comment amongst the rocky ass sea of chaos 😆😆 💕💗🩷💜🩵💙💚💛🧡❤️

[@shaolinabbott9161]

This is a nice comment.

[@teletubbyfan8209]

IVANUSHKA!

[@mercedeswalt6621]

Awww, I bet they’re a lovely couple!

[@B.eya99]

Not all men but enough to make all of us scared

[@bgos4727]

Is funny how no man ever knows but every woman has a story

[@justjoshua5759]

@@bgos4727 actually they do you just ignore them. And normalise the dangerous potential of women

[@mx.chi2]

@@bgos4727 exactly. exactly.

[@manunderyourbed]

@@bgos4727 because one man can harass multiple women a day. Simple statistics. The same with crime. Most crime is done by serial offenders.

[@No_Enemies_Kale]

This is reasonable. It’s also reasonable to admit how absurd it is to actually choose the bear. It’s purely assumption to assume that the man in choice would be a bad person, given that there is no specification behind this question. Humans more often than not still have humanity in them and their actions, how often do you come across a truly POS person? A bear wouldn’t give two shits about you, if it’s hungry, then you’re food. There is no possibility of judgement being made on the bear’s end, but men made society for humanity to thrive, albeit it is far from perfect, it’s still worth showing how much men have care about other men, women and children. Don’t let the actions of a few men ruin your perception on all of them. I could be incredibly jaded because of how many terrible, narcissistic women I’ve come across that would cheat on their S/O any chance they’d get, but it’s not up to me to condemn all women for the actions of a few. Not all women are like that. The closer we get to realizing this, the better we can start treating each other, and having greater confluence and communion.

[@mirithilrose54]

This whole conversation made me think of 2 movies: The Revenant vs Wild. In The Revenant Leo gets attacked by a bear for about an hour. In Wild, Reese Witherspoon's character goes on a long nature hike and every time she meets a man I was worried about her safety. I think many men will think of the scenario of The Revenant and women will put themselves in the situation of the main character in Wild. But if Leo were killed by the bear, everyone would agree that it would have been a terrible thing. Whereas if something had happened to Reese, people would have been: "Well, that silly goose should have stayed home."

[@itcouldbelupus2842]

Bingo

[@FencingMessiah]

No we would have said she definitely should have went out with weapons for protection and not alone. Not even for men but just to be safe while hiking you should have a weapon and a partner or group in case you get lost or stranded or hurt

[@amberinthemist7912]

​@@FencingMessiahwomen are victim blamed almost every single time they are hurt. You denying it exists helps creeps continue to hurt women.

[@paulthird3942]

Man or Bear ( but the Bear supports Leo's right to never date a girl older than 25)

[@sauce2514]

What are you on about?

[@anastasialobanova4104]

All the absurdity of the situation aside, a bear wouldn't think whether I'm a 10 or a 0 and treat me based on that

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Oop. 👀

[@Anngrl69]

Ohhhhh, this is spot on

[@emmabergeron8584]

Incredible comment

[@markstriker925]

Well the bear also wouldn't worry about height and bank accounts too.

[@maajuub101]

Hi, I wonder is this comment to show that men are the only ones who treat people different based on things they find valuable?

[@saradrue4189]

When I get mauled by a bear, at least it will be believed. When I say I’ve been mauled by a man, I “ruined” his life.

[@masteryourkitchen-areyouga7237]

well you most have provoke the bear... you only ruined his life if you rapport of him is fake ... if it is not fake .. he ruined both your life

[@MalesAreDemons]

@Porter90 Bear everyday !!!!

[@TeddyKrimsony]

when has a man attacked a woman and not get arrested

[@MalesAreDemons]

@@TeddyKrimsony Plenty of times nice try

[@TheGamer2001]

@@TeddyKrimsony All the fucking time, boo, stop lying.

[@abdulazizmohammed6832]

Man or bear? chubby gays: hold my honeypot 🍯

[@NB-lx6gz]

They're just fat men

[@Killroy2112]

I was sad when I found out they didn't mean me

[@leicean]

This made me giggle so loud it made my dog wake up

[@abrahammazariegos9704]

I choose the chubby bear den for hibernation plzz

[@damntae6540]

Definitely bear 😍

[@gabriellethompson501]

I once told a man I don't expect men to protect me, and it offended him. He really questioned why I'd defend myself against another man if my man is there and I had to ask why he was uncomfortable in the fact I could take care of myself

[@lexa2310]

I honestly think anyone should protect anyone. Like, I dont care If its a man or a woman that helps me and I would also help no matter If its a man or a woman. The thought of just walking by and not doing anything because either of us doesn't have the right gender is just so surreal 🤯 If anyone says they would do that it would honestly be more of a tell that the person is a deeply troubled individual that should be looked at by psychologists.

[@gabriellethompson501]

@@lexa2310 I agree with you. That's just not the reality

[@guillermolledowolkowicz7085]

Men don't understand how scared women are. Women don't understand that men need to feel useful. It's relative, it's not always true, but personally, as a man, hearing that has helped me to understand people. Being rejected by people is the fear that makes us all have our complex and insecurities. But as a man, being rejected in an unsafe situation with a woman is against very deep biological functions. It makes us feel not worth. I'm gay, it's not about being an attractive hero. Maybe the next time you say you can take care of yourself you don't specify that you don't need him. Or you can be comprehensibe that it's not the same experience for him to hear that. Or if a man steps forward for you in a stressful situation you don't think he is necessarily assuming that you can't take care of yourself. Maybe he just thinks "I can be useful now! It's time to solve this".

[@gabriellethompson501]

@guillermolledowolkowicz7085 it shouldn't be against biology to let someone defend themselves if they are capable of doing that. It's not all about men and them needing to feel needed. Like, do men say they need men when a man is threatening them? No, they're expected to handle it, so I'm not sure why a man can't understand when a woman can take care of herself. A man isn't always going to be there nor be helpful

[@lexa2310]

@@guillermolledowolkowicz7085 Being with a man in an unsafe situation is also against very deep biological functions, namely staying alive and healthy. Im also not going to just let a man do something Im not comfortable with just to not hurt his feelings. And others shouldnt either. Been there, done that, got the trauma from it. No thank you.

[@wellersonoliveira5334]

As a man, our biggest fear is goin' to prison and geting r*****, imagine everyday bein' always on alert about this possibility. Can't blame women for chosing the bear.

[@shaunamichele]

Thank you.

[@Ellie-bj2uw]

And there are comics of the opposite and? @Jesujej

[@eli10589]

​@Jesujej A comic? So a fictional story? 🗿

[@sandy_carpetsthesecond5013]

@@Jesujej It's almost as if it's a metaphor, presented through a fictional story with context around the situation. Everyone's scared of being R-ed by a man, no one's scared that a woman and a bear are going to eat out your stomach.

[@Jesujej]

@@eli10589 did you watch this video? she showed a tiktok clip

[@mgass1354]

Are all men dangerous to women? No. Are enough men dangerous to women that women have a reason to be scared? Definitely. Want to know which is which? Just watch which men are getting upset when a woman says "bear" and which men are going, "yeah, I get it".

[@mikkelens]

I don't know if I agree. I feel like I get it *and* feel like this discussion is extremely alienating, and sounds like engagement bait that people don't mean. I don't get upset when people say kill all men because I know it's not meant to be taken seriously like that, but if that's what this discussion is then I've just lost the plot and would love to get a heads up from someone who has kept track

[@mgass1354]

@@mikkelens It's pretty simple. The "bear or man" question is just making a point; women see men as more dangerous to them than a bear. The men doing anything other than saying "I get it" are the exact type of man that made women choose the bear in the first place. It's not hard to sympathize with a demographic where 1 in 3 are going to get SA'd during their lifetime, yet, here we are with these men doing anything but trying to be a decent person.

[@justjoshua5759]

Everyone who disagrees with me is a dangerous ted bundy walking around isn’t a good way to convince anybody of anything why not just address the sexism and concerns of why these men are like this and not be arrogant in thinking your answer is the only answer Isn’t this channels viewers meant to be inspired by “bridging the gap” all that’s turning into is sexism to men is okay and before you say it “Muh you’re a hurt dog hollering” there I said it for you. Now is there anything of substance past this. Since I know that’s what y’all are just gonna say instead of actually just providing reasons.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@mgass1354 it’s not hard to sympathise with men getting attacked by women and “women are wonderful” effect based reasons you use to create some sort of double standard. You do know you can address the problems you mentioned without being sexist to all unknown men right. And if women or others actually follow this line of logic. You don’t deserve that empathy anyway. Not for the assault stuff no. I mean being listened to about how you’re going about solving or looking into that since it’s clear you’re too biased if all men are ted bundy to you unless you agree. Same shit as. “All black ppl are criminals unless I know them”. Cognitive dissonance is wild.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@mgass1354 it’s not that simple. But my comments aren’t going through again so maybe it will after this to explain why

[@BlueBeetle1939]

A bear isnt going to sexually assault anyone

[@Jesujej]

but they will assault

[@jenice7057]

@@Jesujej well that depends on the situation. If you encounter a mother bear, it will most likely try to scare you off, so most of the time it’s a bluff and you’re safe if you slowly retreat. With bears that aren’t mothers, it depends on if they see you as prey, because if they do you won’t even be aware of them until it’s too late and with bears that don’t see you as prey, but still want you to go away, they’ll just bluff as well. TL;DR if you actually see the bear it’s most often a bluff and you just need to leave, if you don’t… well it’s best to just lay down and hope for the best

[@BlueBeetle1939]

@Jesujej yeah but so can any man. So its 2 different kinds of danger vs just one I get it the math is pretty simple

[@justjoshua5759]

@@jenice7057with the prompt of man (as in any potential man on earth) vs bear. The chances of predation against meeting an average ass dude are more likely than not. Doubly so for a momma bear and cubs. The law of proportions is just not working to choose the bear as the logical option here.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@BlueBeetle1939you’re acting like you can’t more often than not fight off the guy. Or the guy wouldn’t be less likely to do that which with a larger population in proportion is more likely than the bear doing that to you

[@CS-zb7hx]

Insane to me how many of the 'counter arguments' boil down to "I know you actively fear for your life and bodily autonomy, but i'm LONELY and this hurts my FEELINGS and I don't get why we're not talking about THAT!"

[@Rosierose902]

👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾

[@marissahicks3529]

Can’t forget the edgelords constantly playing devil’s advocate or completely changing the question’s parameters. “Statistics > real-life experiences. Checkm8 feeeeeemales🤣🤣🤣” “if the question was picking between a bear and a black man, ur rly gonna choose to be RACIST??!1!1” (this one baffles me lmao. A black man is still a MAN. Bear > ANY man)

[@wirelessbaguette8997]

I would rather a man be honest about how when he personalizes the bear/man comparison it hurts his feelings, than a man that tries to claim that bears are more dangerous than men, or that you should pick man because he can protect you. More men talking about feelings, less men trying to fact-check women's experiences, less men succumbing to the wiles of patriarchy please.

[@CS-zb7hx]

@@wirelessbaguette8997 Saying "this conversation makes me uncomfortable, but I get why it's happening" and "this conversation makes me uncomfortable and therefore you're a misandrist and you should shut up" aren't the same and I'm seeing too much of the latter

[@sourcandy6469]

I know that wasn’t the intention of the video but to me it felt like women were blamed for the situation and for being fed up with men once again and I just can’t hear it anymore. This video didn’t seem feminist at all to me.

[@xledia]

Most women I've talked with understand the nuance of "not all men", but the question isn't about a specific man, it's a totally random man, and the statistics really just favor the bear there

[@mikkelens]

In what way? I would totally accept this as a "sure, whatever, *all men* (no need to be specific)", but if we're going into nuance and call it statistics it sounds like people here are being totally unserious

[@Dojafish]

Ah yes, let's believe statistics to judge other people for things they can't have control over.

[@nilesta]

There are eight species of bears, and only two of them are considered dangerous. Two mostly eat plants, one eats insects. The most common bear, by a very, very large number is the American Black bear. Statistics are definitely on your side.

[@franciszekdo]

@@nilesta It's dishonest to treat it as just trusting the statistics. We live in a human society, not a human and bear society. Most people live in dense urban populations and have to go out of their way to even be somewhere they might encounter a bear. Most assault is from other humans that are part of your close knit community. If half the "people" you encountered on a day-to-day basis were grizzly bears the stats would be very different.

[@nilesta]

@@franciszekdo It's interesting that you chose one of the only two dangerous bears, when I've already stated that Black Bears are the most numerous, by a huge margin.

[@kestaa]

The level of outrage (if not flat-out rage) that so many men are expressing at the mere thought that a woman would DARE to choose the bear is precisely why so many women would choose the bear! And I have no idea how to explain that to someone who doesn't already get it...

[@shaolinabbott9161]

It's truly horrible that some of you have experienced trauma, but that doesn't change the fact that picking the bear is stupid; because the bear is statistically more likely to absolutely slaughter you (over the course of many hours) then a man. Your trauma and fractured psyche are awful, but your feelings don't change the facts. We know why women choose 'bear'. That doesn't change the fact that, statistically, a bear is more likely to kill and eat you, possibly taking it's time to eat you alive over several hours. Your past trauma, hurt feelings and general neuroticism as women do nothing to change objective reality. The women picking 'bear' are either stupid, damaged, or both. That's the harsh truth. But thanks for breathing life into the stereotype of women being emotional and irrational.

[@allyli1718]

I think it's weird because I had a "man" response to the question. Ever since the "would you still love me if I was a worm" question, I've hated hypotheticals like this because it feels like a rhetorical trap. The answer is obviously no, like wtf that's beastiality, but the reality is that the question is actually about loving someone no matter what, so it's "correct" to say the "wrong answer." Maybe that's my autism, but I wish they could just directly ask "would you still love me if I was inconvenient?" instead of doing this weird rhetorical trap. So when I heard the "man vs bear" question, I got pissed because it reminded me of that worm rhetorical trap. Obviously the correct answer is man bc bears are known for mauling, but that means I should say "bear" bc it's "correct" to say the "wrong answer." It just felt like more gender war bs, and I'm sick of that kind of bs as it only divides people instead of inviting understanding and genuine change. Then, I actually watched a couple video breakdowns on the topic, and I grew a newfound appreciation for the rhetorical trap. Women talking about how at least they'd have been believed if they were attacked by a bear, the statistical likelihood of bear maulings vs assaults, the fact that bears aren't interested in attacking humans but men are definitely interested in women, the memes depicting women getting horribly mauled by bears. It became increasingly clear that 'man' was not actually the correct answer like I thought it was. Like yeah, the question was no doubt cooked up to be gender war nonsense, but the actual discussion made me realize that it wasn't really a rhetorical trap, because men just genuinely are pretty dangerous lol. Like how 'humans were the real monsters all along' is the plot to most zombie movies. So like, the fact is that I had the empathy and open minded ness to genuinely hear all these arguments even though I initially disagreed. If I could listen and understand, then you should be able to, too. I think the fact that many men come out of this not even a little bit having sympathy for women is genuinely proof that they'd be unsafe to be around, because it means they have no respect for the thoughts or autonomy of women, no matter how persuasive. Whether that be for choosing a bear over a man, or a woman saying no means no.

[@calebh373]

"I would rather encounter a literal animal in the forest than encounter one of YOUR kind." That's where the outrage comes from.

[@MikeHawk-c5t]

@@kestaa and your whining is precisely why Trump won and why republicans will stay in power for the foreseeable future

[@Blue-kz3yk]

Notice how men weren't trying to convince women that they aren't dangerous and untrustworthy, they tried to stain the poor bears' reputation. They know they fd up lol😢😢😢

[@Jesujej]

original argument used statistics 😂95% of them are fake

[@DumplingDoodle]

I think a lot of people have a hard time recognizing that women being afraid of strange men doesn’t automatically make you a strange man just because you’re A man. Lead by example, don’t be creepy. Really goes to show how deeply internalized that self hating masculinity is, to be projecting yourself into the role of strange potentially dangerous man, and feel offended when people are theoretically afraid of said character.

[@justjoshua5759]

No because why would an average man assume himself to be a predator or creep when they’re not? The bear’s reputation in comparison to the average man who ain’t a predator of creep would obviously be more dangerous so this is silly

[@justjoshua5759]

@@DumplingDoodlewell sexist ass examples like this do a poor job in getting around that first paragraph when it’s basically saying. “Average unknown man = sexual predator/creep”. So of course they’re going to assume average man is being typecasted and seen as that It’s not internalised toxic masculinity. This is just a poor gaslight into turning these men into the problem when thy literally haven’t done anything but be offended that they’re gender. A part of their person. Is being seen as this unfairly when they haven’t done anything wrong. Why would I want my blackness to be associated with criminality and then when I have a problem with that stereotyping it’s an issue? The cognitive dissonance is overpowering

[@Sonjin3592]

@@justjoshua5759so you think average man can never do those thing ? Of course you dude you are dude

[@luckypeanut9943]

The amount of 'men' on my social media snickering to themselves at the idea of a women getting mauled by said hypothetical bear are the exact reason we have this issue

[@Ruhrohraggy23345]

They laugh at womens peril and wonder, why we choose bear. 🤔

[@fortuneegbunike3728]

​@@Ruhrohraggy23345then why don't yall do it go to the forests and leave the cities men created

[@ArushiSingh004]

​​@@fortuneegbunike3728hah!! Of course they had to do all work as they were forcing women to stay in house and take care of their family at that time. But babyboy time has changed now. Woman are working too so you are just being stupid at this point. Stop whining on internet and go cry to your mom or something.

[@yellowjckts]

​@@fortuneegbunike3728I would honestly love to!

[@TheGamer2001]

@@fortuneegbunike3728 Why don't yall go to musk to ask for his sex robots and leave the homes women created? Makes sence that cities are created by males, that is why they are so shit.

[@motorcitymangababe]

I def get the feelings but because like... A big reason I choose the bear is because like... There's no betrayal there. The bear hasn't entered a contract with the rest of us that were were gonna have morals and treat each other well for the benefit of society. Humans are told to expect a certain level of decency from one another that even attacking a stranger violates. (On top of your most likely attacker being someone you know. ) Idk, it's kinda like how mark twain said that man is the only immoral creature because we decided to create that standard. A bear is just a bear. Some of these folks need to go watch Brother Bear again. ETA: my other reason being the wcs of both encounters and seeing a lotta dudes processing their hurt feelings by fantasizing about us getting mauled by bears for rejecting them.

[@Telecritter78]

Or as Westside Tyler said “At least the bear isn’t gonna *talk* to you while it kills you.”

[@grandmasterofdemoniccock]

BROTHER BEAR 😭😭😭💜🤲

[@FencingMessiah]

This is actually ridiculous. People are animals. Their higher consciousness and intelligence does not change that. All it means is a human will hurt you for a variety of complex emotional reasons while bears are more simplistic but conversely a human can be reasoned with while if a bear wants to harm you thats pretty much it for you

[@lol.3460]

@@FencingMessiahwe aren’t thinking about who won’t hurt us. We know the bear will hurt us. But in the worst case scenario how badly can that bear hurt me?? The bear won’t keep me alive for days torturing me and there’s no potential for that to happen because it’s a bear. We’re not afraid of being hurt or killed by bears we’re afraid of the worst experience that could possibly be had with a man due to the complexities and broad range of situations that could happen.

[@FencingMessiah]

@@lol.3460 actually they do. Bears eat slowly and you will most likely be watching yourself be eaten. Go look up bears attacks if you don't believe me. It's not like a lion or tiger or jaguar that goes straight for the neck and kills instantly

[@nico6143]

I feel like the biggest tragedy of patriarchy is how honestly little you get in return for abiding by its rules. Yeah, if I can become a warped mirror world version of a stoic who lives his whole ass life as a "Sheppard" over women and a provider to the men above me, I can get access too... what? Respect from those same jackasses who needle and use you? The ability to hurt someone in the most disgusting and intimate ways possible? Why would I want any of those things, let alone with the price tag? Money, sure, but all the money in the world cannot replace a meaningful relationship. Meanwhile, women who live up to patriarchal standards get... still abused, used, and thrown away. But hey, at least they lasted a longer breath before it happened.

[@Spirited_skiing]

100% this. The day I learned this was one of the best days of my life, and maybe the first day of the rest of my life.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

YES!! Wish this comment was pinned, honestly. Such a great point.

[@gregvs.theworld451]

It's honestly this that makes me wonder why it's so hard for guys who aren't non white, cis, or queer to understand this. Even if society "panders" to you specifically, how hard is it to see you get f*ck and all as your reward for playing the game? You're playing a script the elites games you to keep you grinding yourself to the bone for capital and they're playing you for a dupe and I do not understand how so many guys do not see that. In theory it seems like it should be easy af to show angry young men that the ones they should hate are the ones who fed them a bunk script that was never going to make them happy or get them into the upper echelon of rich f*cks who hate the working class man on the ground with every fibre of their being.

[@QUEERVEEART]

agree, and i think this also happens because of the combo of patriarchy and capitalism. our systems are so broken, this society was only made for those at the top.

[@irm316]

Define patriarchy, give sufficient real-world examples of the patriarchy in the West, and prove without a shadow of a doubt that it exists. You’re speaking in a lot of general, vague statements that represent anecdotes.

[@Smoochy1074]

As a guy i want to open up about it, because i had been a victim of toxic masculinity and was abused by toxic men a lot, especialy by both of my fathers (biological and stepfather) Plus most of the harassment came from other guys... For me understanding the bear choise is pretty obvious, because hey after all abuse im always on high alert about my mother's and sisters safety, same goes to my past and future relationships because im just too worried for a safety of my partner. It's still hurts me that most women have this perception of me being a dangerous guy especially after all the abuse I suffered, but in the end I do understand when it comes from :(

[@Kattieninja]

You are by far more likely to be trusted by a woman simply by showing that empathy and vulnerability to us. It shows us that you are more willing to be humble and listen to our experiences, this will make us women more likely to hear out your emotions about the situation. Emotions are valid, but not when they're being used to derail the original conversation. Women shut down men that weponize their feelings to shut down conversations. The next step would be holding your fellow man accountable. Don't just assume your male friends are good people because they're respectful to YOU. Probe their thoughts about women to see for sure, men are more likely to straight up admit shit to another man. Hold them accountable, just as you would yourself and anyone else around you. Keep pushing, you're on the right track.

[@amanchoudhury8135]

Hope you are doing well now buddy.

[@lexa2310]

It really is unfair to guys like you who have been victims themselves. Unfortunately you get put with the group because we cant tell from just looking at you.

[@raykarpp]

You gave me more faith in guys, men can be innocent, good people, men can understand what its like to suffer things like this, and men understand that men are viewed a certain way, and accept that, be confident in yourself that you are not those bad men, even if women are scared of you, you know your no harm and be glad that your a good person, we need more men like you. I understand that cats or other animals may run away from me out of fear, i wont get mad, its understandable, im a human, natures top preditor. I know i would protect animals even if they dont know, and thats ok, dont let that stop you from being you and being good

[@tomasrocha6139]

You have internalized misandry

[@MarieJayneOGstrain]

When men just assume we don’t actually understand how dangerous the bear is

[@fortuneegbunike3728]

If men are scary why don't all women live in the forests with bears

[@Omegeddon]

Most of them don't.

[@bdott1538]

@@fortuneegbunike3728bc men would just follow women into the woods.

[@fortuneegbunike3728]

​@@bdott1538women are strong and indipendent yall xan build an electric wall but you still decide to live with men

[@Ruhrohraggy23345]

@@fortuneegbunike3728 A vast majority of women don’t choose men. The women you are talking about shouldn’t be hated for wanting men. People are very different, not everyone has the same values. Respect that .

[@Lolo-rk4ns]

I am actually one of these women who was asked (wasn’t shown in this clip but pink tracksuit girl in the other videos going around). I think what’s so weird is I’d stepped onto Brick Lane and within 2 seconds a man was saying he loved my outfit and wanted to ask me about it. He asked what my fashion pet peeve is and I spoke at length about classism and wealthy people wearing tracksuits. After this he said he had a random question to ask and it was the bear question. At that point in time I had been experiencing serious sexual harassment on the street to the point of physical altercations and violence. I was actually only in London to take a few days away because of a man violently attacking me outside my workplace due to assumption that I am a Zionist for wearing my Magen David (I’m a staunch anti-Zionist, free Palestine🇵🇸). When I saw the original video posting my heart sank. My friend read the comments for me and told me not to read them, but I did. The creator who made this posted a millisecond of the actual conversation he approached with in mind, and it resulted in serious self consciousness and body image issues in myself as a result. Now when I walk around people recognise me from the video and I feel shame not about my response, but embarrassment for being ugly and fat with an opinion on anything based on my experience. The video made me feel shame about being seen or desired, and the comments made me question my own genuinely horrific experiences of male violence.

[@jazthespaz837]

I’m sorry you experienced that. I bet it also must be difficult when faced with this question, to know that the interviewer also had an alterior motive , proving why so many woman chose bear to begin with.

[@kadinelindsayart]

Omg girl 😢sending you love

[@justjoshua5759]

I’m sorry your experiences were used for exploitation and I can understand in your experience if you chose the bear but it’s sucks how this has all just lead to another conflict in the gender war than ppl just objectively and directly calling out and going against predatory and creepy ppl men or women. Rather than using it as a sexist excuse to demonise all potential men as being as dangerous or more so than bears by making the misandrist connection that any potential man that’s not identifiable - creep or predator.

[@Lolo-rk4ns]

@@justjoshua5759 everyone has the capacity to harm others, regardless of gender identity. But to ignore the prevalence of male violence under a patriarchal system and society is to undermine reality. *and that’s not just my opinion. This is based on data and statistics, lived experiences generationally and historically of women, the history of statutes, etc. You can’t just erase all of human history for the sake of personal reassurance.

[@to_ur_heart]

@banquetoftheleviathan1404 You know who is misandrist? Not feminism, not women who chose the bear. Statistics of sexual violence against strangers.

[@heyyodude8637]

I think a lot of people are missing the point when it comes to man vs bear. The implications is that many women experiences with men can boiled down to how humans are capable of doing such acts of cruelty that the feeling of finding a man in the middle of the woods to be much scarier that seeing a bear in the woods, and because we live in a patriarchal society where rape culture is rather common, the fear is valid.

[@sumairshirazi]

Rape culture is common ?

[@TheCakeIsALie-1]

It's the whole not all men but yes all women. Virtually all women have been SH and/or SA by men. It might be a minority of men doing the harassing, but when you encounter so many men on a day to day basis, it ends in a lot of unwanted harassment for most women. Fearing men keeps women alive and our bodily integrity safe.

[@joshuajohnson5337]

You fear the cruelty of Men more than the cruelty of Animals and Nature, and then act surprised when men are offended by being told that they are worse than wild animals

[@heyyodude8637]

@@joshuajohnson5337It’s only offensive if you don’t actually understand what it is saying. If men get offended over the fact that women are more scared of them than animals, I rather put that effort into healing from the toxic environment that they are in that lead to some men to act abusive towards women than getting more angry at women for not choosing them.

[@joshuajohnson5337]

@@heyyodude8637 Then by all means, here is an opportunity to heal by hearing a woman and an alleged licensed therapist's take on the matter Dances With Bears - Social Media Junk Food 3 (Part 1) by The Prim Reaper kzbin.info/www/bejne/aaDXfH1vhrp7jdU I Can't BEAR the Silliness - Social Media Junk Food 3 (Part 2) by The Prim Reaper kzbin.info/www/bejne/eJ2co42NmMaLnZo

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Hmmm......I feel, observing this one, that women have mostly approached man vs bear with FACTS, and the men have mostly approached man vs bear with FEELINGS. That's my take away. Men need to admit they are having a feeling. It's ok to have big feelings! How much trauma women have at the hands of men SHOULD make men feel terrible. Men need to grieve the trauma caused by other men, totally, and I see a lot of the male reactions to this debate online to be grief twisted into anger. So have your feelings when women tell you the facts. If men admit that they want support for their feelings, they can be helped, but if they insist that they are NOT having big feelings, this really can't go in a productive direction. We see this in other contexts with men, how they derail what could be a productive, fact sharing conversation because they have a BIG FEELING and absolutely refuse to admit that's what's going on for them. EDIT: And guys, I really did not plan this, but if you want a real time example of exactly the dynamic I'm talking about, just peep the response to this comment by 'JustJoshua'

[@evren5642]

This!!! It’s not that I’m against maintaining empathy for men as individuals and being able to engage with them emotionally; but they’ll have to take the first step. It can’t be on women and other non-men to do all the work. They can come to us when they’re ready. But it seems like a lot of them aren’t ready.

[@alejandromorales9516]

Well put!

[@TetchyEquation]

I don't want to be trusted less than a wild animal. Call that "big feelings!" as snarkily as you want, but I think that's not unreasonable, to feel cut off from half of the planet for something I was never in control of or consented too. And I don't just mean my own gender, I mean the Patriarchy, I never asked for this, and I don't want it, but even going all the way with some of the men I've known in my life to try to get them to stop hasn't been enough.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

@@OsirisThaMystikal Ummm, in all seriousness, men are very often the victims of men. Men are more likely to be unalived than women. And they are unalived......at the hands of men. Men have TONS of trauma to unpack under patriarchy, just ask any therapist who has treated male clients. It's not about who has suffered more. It's about making space to validate ALL suffering, to discuss it and understand it, and to heal. I want there to be space for women to discuss their trauma, and I also want there to be space for men to discuss their trauma. My point in 'man vs. bear' is I have seen men struggle to make space for discussing women's trauma. I think it's going too far to claim men themselves don't have trauma.

[@justjoshua5759]

I’m just going to repost this to anyone arrogantly postulating the bear to be logical in any meaningful way It quite literally doesn’t by every metric of logic I can think of and have heard ppl say. Let’s run through how A) “I know that I’ll die with the bear it’s predictable. Men are unpredictable.” - this doesn’t make much sense since predictability doesn’t make any gurantee of justification of an outcome. I can know for a fact I’ll die via the death penalty compared to prison but assuming prison to be worse than death would be silly depending on the range of prisons and the higher likelihood of being able to survive relatively okay in most as compared to total annihilation with death. If assuredness of death is assumed to be preferable it would imply prison or the man as the example, would more often than not be worse than death which is just less probable objectively. B) “bears often time don’t harm or kill ppl compared to most women dying by husbands aswell as sexual assault and grape stories” - well even best case scenario we take black bears which are most likely to be the least dangerous. The bears have a population so small as compared to the entirety of 3.5 billion ppl of which due to the law of averages would be either a regular guy or non dangerous to you with more of a likelihood of fighting back. Again averages don’t make this logical since you’re more likely to suffer through the bear in the woods than you are to have a psycho predatory male in the woods rather than the average Joe C) “I can’t fight off the bear and can accept my fate and the man can draw out the level of pain and suffering” - whilst I won’t comment on if sexual assault and murder of which humans can do would be objectively worse here. Ppl need to know more about bears. Bears when fatally mauling or killing ppl of which the unpredictability is still more than present. Hold down their prey, meaning you, by the stomach and rip you apart and eat whilst you can’t move and don’t die from immediate blood loss since the stomach doesn’t have that much. You go into shock after agony after a few minutes. Wake up then repeat for hours. Which at the very least is up there with duration and savagery of which any human male could do. D) “bears don’t attack or eat humans. Look at the statistics for bear attacks” - yeah this is a statistic made in a vacuum not in comparison with the entire potential choice of 3.5 billion ppl most of which won’t do anything near or even attempt to do anything to you. And this is a misleading idea on bears anyway. Polar bears actively hunt and predate on humans. And again with the comparison scale it’s pretty obvious the likelihood of this is higher than that of the human. Bears usually avoid humans but in the entire population with mothers protecting cubs or again flat out hunting you which can and will happen more with this comparison via probability makes this illogical. E) “men are more scary. Don’t you know every woman has an assault story” - this is unfortunately tragic but comparing the entire population as a potential with bears isn’t going to highlight that in terms of logic or empathy. It just comes across as sexist and only makes sense to women suffering the trauma of these events and trying to rationalise a demonising comparison of which isn’t men. But predatory men. I can keep going but for now those are the most common retorts. It doesn’t make. Any logical sense to anyone thinking about it for more than 5 seconds

[@rosaleekern2121]

"...men cut off half of themselves and women are expected to pick up the slack..." Is the best way to put it. Damn.

[@niani8359]

You look at the news or true crime, and you see what kind of abu$e some men will put close friends and complete strangers through.

[@FencingMessiah]

Yes because we live in a society of men and women. So of course there is less bear crime. If we still lived in the wilderness and hadn't hunted bears down to their small numbers today there would be a large amount of bear on human murders

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@FencingMessiah Way to not even remotely address the point niani was making.

[@FencingMessiah]

@@gregvs.theworld451 I'm addressing the obsession to hyper focus on what is going on in the news that actively feeds certain people stories to outrage them and gain views would be used against bears if we lived among them. It is instead used to create paranoia in women(Selective paranoia at that).

[@niani8359]

@@FencingMessiah I said the “kind” or type of abuse because the worst thing a man in a forest can do is something like tie you up and rape you until you die of starvation and dehydration, or beat you, violate, or violently murder you, then try to hide your remains so the cops and your family can’t find you. A bear will violently murder you, maim you, or leave you alone. I’m keeping it impersonal and related to sources of media we can all experience because it’s less awkward than saying I have been sexually/physically assaulted multiple times in my life in a variety of places, all by men, including three days after my birthday this year. If there are way more man attacks then bear attacks, doesn’t it track that human men are more dangerous to human women than bears? There are men I love and trust in my life, but trusting men you don’t know is stupid to the point that women who do and get hurt are blamed for trusting men they didn’t know. And many of the men that wouldn’t attack people are passive in the face of their peers engaging in violent behavior against women. I don’t expect you to read all of this, but I hope someone else who comes across this understands a little more of a different perspective because of this comment

[@nnn9854]

@@FencingMessiahOh just be quiet. There’s nothing to defend.

[@rabbitsedits]

khadija lowkey having an emotional breakdown over the cuteness of their cat is so relatable

[@SheilaMoraes_]

I really feel like I can't low my guard with men in general (including my dad), cause they are not willing do the same and meet us halfway. If they don't low their guard as well, they will hurt me anyway. The fear itself hurts me a lot.

[@samsprague3158]

Could you say more what you think of as “lowering their guard”? From my perspective (am a man) lots of men lower their guard at times. Have you never seen this?

[@lexa2310]

​​​​ For me it would be being accepting of others smaller faults and habits without constant critisism or needeling as well as asking about others emotions or beliefes and showing that you care without belitteling them but also sharing your own emotions, ideas, beliefes without judgement. Accepting that you are different people but that that doesn't devalue either of you. Accept someone as they are and be accepted in turn. I tried opening up to my first guyfriend, decided to be vulnerable first and got burned pretty badly. My first and last bf was the only guy who opened up to me, but at that point I had already become somewhat jaded and couldnt do the same. He never questioned or realized that while he was trauma dumping that I never reciprocated by sharing my own inner world in turn. The more uneven the relationship got the less I felt like I could burden him with my problems and the more it felt like I was performing the part of the "good girlfriend" and loosing myself to it. Suffice to say we are Not together anymore.

[@lexa2310]

For me it would be being able to authentically be yourself without the other belitteling smaller faults, habits and emotions and in turn the person trusting you with their own smaller faults, believes and habits. It would be asking unprompted after their wellbeing and starting emotional conversations to let the person vent, because you think they might need it. And they do the same for, even If just to make you feel a bit better. Its being empathic enough to know when to stop with certain topics or when the other needs space and knowing they will respect your need for space and comfort as well. My first and last bf thought "emotionally open" ment talking about all his trauma and letting me reassure him, it was never a give-and-take, so I never felt like I could open up in turn because it never seemed like he wanted me to. He never talked with me, just at me, If that makes sense. The other way around I can imagine that If you open yourself up and try to form a connection by asking about their life and sharing your own in turn, but constantly get short or vague answers and disinterest it could be pretty discouraging as well. Edit: At least that is what I would interpreted this as, based on my own experiences.

[@seangriffey8669]

I will read The Will To Change. It honestly breaks my heart that the overwhelming majority of women are this scared of men. Women being scared of me isn't a new idea. Every time I go out for a walk at least one woman crosses the street to avoid me. I do get it, but it's quite the task to not take it personally. As for being valued for what I can do, yeah I feel that. I can see people's opinion of me drop when they realize I'm not just short, fat, and ugly, but also poor and working a dead end job. Which is to say, of no value whatsoever. And I would never in a million years voice any of this to someone I know. Everyone wants a sensitive, vulnerable man until they have one.

[@mikkelens]

> "I do get it, but it's quite the task to not take it personally." I think you're going to love bell hooks / the will to change. And I agree, it's wild how people really just switch their opinion on this topic depending on who they're talking to. You can be vulnerable, but only in the way that reaches for the bounds of patriarchal acceptability. I don't think people care if you're short or ugly in these discussions, since it often can be boiled down to whether or not you're exceptional enough that you're deemed One Of The Good Ones We're Not Referring To Right Now, but I'm sure that can be a source of general insecurity. I was short in middle school so I get it.

[@MolecularMachine]

Re: your last paragraph, it's not that people don't want men to be sensitive, it's that men are often so starved for someone to be vulnerable with that they cling like they're drowning onto whoever will listen. And that tends to overwhelm and burden the listener, who then has to choose between continuing to let this guy drain their energy or telling them to stop somehow, neither of which may end well for the listener. How to avoid this situation? Talk to a professional in interpersonal skills, i.e. a therapist. They're prepared to help the drowning and expect to find them.

[@seangriffey8669]

@@MolecularMachine I'd never thought about that, I'll consider that if/when I open up to someone again. I do see a therapist, so I am working on this.

[@mhawang8204]

@@seangriffey8669 Glad to hear that you’re taking steps to work on yourself. Honestly most of us aren’t equipped to deal with the complexity of emotional needs and mental health based on limited personal experience. Therapists and psychiatrists are professionally trained, and the need for formal education and licensing tells you this is a field better dealt with people who know about this stuff. ❤ All the best to you, mate!

[@Ruhrohraggy23345]

You’re not over sensitive, you’ve compassionate and well In tune with your feelings. You articulated what you meant very well. You are seen, heard and appreciated. Don’t forget you matter.

[@Setsunako6587]

I've read The Will to change 3 1/2 times now, and it's the ONLY way I've been able to continue seeing and treating men as people, despite not being granted the same courtesy (e.g., the way men look at me like I'm on the dessert menu does NOT make it fun or easy to go outside). The question I asked going in was, "why is it so hard to love men???" and the answer I got was "men are not the problem, [imperialist, capitalist, ableist] patriarchy is the problem," which is a MUCH bigger problem, but it's one we can ALL benefit from taking down together.

[@JustSummery]

Woman here 👋🏾 I hike quite a bit. I can say, with 100% certainty, that I would much prefer to run into a bear on the trail. Not just men; but, people are far too unpredictable. No thanks

[@quinnm.3127]

running into a couple, or even person regardless of gender that i can tell is physically stronger than me (so literally everyone) is enough to make me ready to defend myself. i would never go into the woods alone, and never in an area that isnt frequently travelled, and only during bright daylight. but ironically that's how i feel when im not in the woods as well.

[@CrowsofAcheron]

I mean, if you are on a well-used hiking trail, you're going to pass people all the time. Sounds exhausting.

[@quinnm.3127]

@@CrowsofAcheron being hypervigilant is 100000% exhausting. ive been working on it for years and have gotten much better, but i dont know if it'll ever fully go away because my brain is protecting me.

[@shaolinabbott9161]

It's truly horrible that some of you have experienced trauma, but that doesn't change the fact that picking the bear is stupid; because the bear is statistically more likely to absolutely slaughter you (over the course of many hours) then a man. Your trauma and fractured psyche are awful, but your feelings don't change the facts. We know why women choose 'bear'. That doesn't change the fact that, statistically, a bear is more likely to kill and eat you, possibly taking it's time to eat you alive over several hours. Your past trauma, hurt feelings and general neuroticism as women do nothing to change objective reality. The women picking 'bear' are either stupid, damaged, or both. That's the harsh truth. But thanks for breathing life into the stereotype of women being emotional and irrational.

[@catinacafe7105]

Khadija really trying to holding us together like spiderman trying to put the boat back together.

[@beeancaaa]

LMFAOOO

[@KhadijaMbowe]

LOOOOOOL

[@bluebandit9715]

Tbh as a dude we shouldn’t be upset that women are choosing the bear we should be upset that we live in a world where women feel the need to choose the bear

[@fortuneegbunike3728]

Nah

[@cakeday4058]

@@fortuneegbunike3728 bro, your like what 15? Sit down

[@fortuneegbunike3728]

@@cakeday4058 16

[@janellerouxx]

And then actually do something about it.

[@GhostAdjacent]

I saw someone’s response to the bear thing that said “instead of being mad that women would pick a bear encounter over a random man, be the kind of man women would choose over a bear”

[@CasualFox12495]

Khadija has clearly been playing Baldur's Gate 3 and CLEARLY picked Halsin.

[@Guy4318]

Strong, "Origin? Karlach. Partner? Halsin. Union? Near-perfection," energy for sure 🥰

[@boochi7087]

I think it was @Thepublicoffender100 that said that men asked women to choose better, and when women chose the bear, they didn't even care to take a moment to ask the women who chose the bear, "Why?". They just resorted to denigrating and insulting them for their own choice. I personally chose the bear, but that's because there's a lot of advice out there on how to deal with the bear out in the wild, but at this point, I'm not entirely sure what the right guide is for dealing with men in general. Most things women have been asked to do "right" to build trust with men and avoid being mistreated by them has barely worked. Women with hijabs are getting mistreated and abused just like the women in sex work. I genuinely can't have any kind of serious relationship (platonic or otherwise) with a man at this point if they can't clearly state or express that the healing of men is the responsibility of men, and women don't owe men a relationship or partnership. Edit: I quoted the wrong person. Updated to @Thepublicoffender100.

[@tashatomic4893]

Bullseye (about "the right guide for dealing w/"). *and not even in the generalized way , even On a personal level, with specific person often you try and try in a multitude of careful, gentle ways; showing own hurt, owning up to own potential contributions, showing compassion to society's contributing factors, showing examples of endured consequences, etc etc... nope, still not enough to be believed.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

Just want to say, solely because of Khadija, I bought and read 'How Can I get through to You?" and it literally changed by life. THANK YOU! Please, please everyone, do yourself a favor and read it!

[@SlashHarkenUltra]

@@FishareFriendsNotFood972 At least you're reading for once.

[@Vampireprice]

I just finished a weird French, literature erotica from 1988 called "Lucie's Long Journey." In it the main character gets lost in the woods, finds and follows a male bear, builds companionship with the bear. They have a trusting relationship where she feels safe to be her pure self. Then a bunch of male hunters show up and drag her back to society where she falls into poverty and homelessness. So this question has been posed and written about since the 80s and the answer is the same now as it was then: We'd Pick The Bear.

[@Lhene9]

There's also a weird 60s book called Bear where a woman picks a bear over men. But she's also a sex pest towards the bear so it's not the best example to bring up.

[@coreywilliams4678]

While there are a lot of men who push back whenever this thought experiment comes up, I feel like men can relate to it the most. I've experienced violence from many men. I knew some of them personally, but most were complete strangers that thought of me as an easy target. The anxiety I get when I try to put myself out there is insane. Because not only do I have to worry about the possibility of social rejection, I know if I look vulnerable that some men will take that as permission to abuse me. And if a bigger man starts beating me in a fight out in public, no one is stepping in to help me. That's why some men wear that macho attitude everywhere they go. Its armor to shield them from violence and sometimes its the only defense we have.

[@chai_lattes]

That's a really interesting take. It reminds me of how many men will unconsciously uphold the values of patriarchy out of fear, knowing that if women weren't there to be regarded as the "weaker sex", it would be other men who are subjected to male dominance and violence. Having that mentality or knowledge must be terrifying. Men are personally victimized under the power structure of patriarchy, too. Our means of survival and navigating those real world dangers are just different, but we're all hurting. Thanks for sharing❤

[@justjoshua5759]

I as a man don’t relate to this at all tbh. Dangerous ppl have me feeling this way and more importantly dangerous women since they get excused by everybody and never taken seriously which I actually know from personal experience. It’s always deffering to what men can do

[@Burrburrcloud]

​@@justjoshua5759 But your stronger then women so you can hold their hands if they try to hit you. But you can't defend yourself against a bigger stronger man.

[@ExeErdna]

​@@chai_lattesPatriarchy really seems like a catch all word here. Since male animals do the same thing often times they know the avoid each other. When males fight it's because of sex, food and water. If crippled in said fights there's nothing really to help them. Humans fight there's circumstances we can understand due to retrospective of how we were raised. Like how the conditioning men go through because of the ironic lack of empathy they deal with too often. Thus removing it from them in vital years only for the same women to expect that man to understand them. Like how boys get called "gay" for being emotional too often beaten for feeling anything. This is why they lash out violently because anger and violence is the only valid path that people take seriously. Which is annoying as hell since even they anger you get told "Don't get mad it wasn't THAT serious"

[@evergreeeeeen]

bear really does make more sense though

[@evergreeeeeen]

unless like I know the guy

[@Jesujej]

what about your dad or brothers? did you move out already?

[@sojabursche]

@@Jesujej I know my brother and father and the kind of people that they are… I choose the bear.

[@spoonikle]

@@Jesujej - You already survived the woods with your dad and brother. You literally already survived being a helpless baby trapped in a box with them. They either passed the test or not.

[@eli10589]

​@@JesujejDads and brothers can be abusive. They are not excluded from the formula.

[@AnjaliLuthra]

Okay so this type of situation actually presented itself to my friends and i when we were travelling just after graduating college by ourselves abroad- we were 5 women on a visit to a wildlife santuary in a jeep, and we stopped every few minutes to spot certain animals- literally huge tigers, alligators, snakes etc. We realised there was a group of men in another jeep following us and stopping exactly where we were and ogling and smiling. It made us feel so usettled, we literally deviated from the route, parked our jeep in the middle of nowhere and climbed an observatory sort of structure where no one could see us. We were literally more scared of the men than an unknown forest

[@Timmoddly]

As a cis fella who used to tell everybody "My goal is to be useful" and who is now on disability that quote about men's value coming from what they can offer really hits home. I struggle a lot with whether I even have value now. Whether I am worthy of love. No matter how many people tell me I am, it's still hard to believe after a lifetime of hearing otherwise.

[@timcoultas1512]

I'm in the same place. I've always thought I've had to behave a certain way in relationships and have never allowed myself to be myself for fear of not being worthy of love. I've decided to start writing down times when I've allowed myself to be myself and write down the outcome as a way to bolster my own beliefs of my worthiness.

[@catherineu5784]

Can I just quickly point out how STUNNING you look?!! 😍😍

[@Cheesycat948]

thinking the same thing!

[@kadinelindsayart]

Likeeee, the top bun is such a cunt look

[@STOPLISTENANDTHINK]

💯💯 Absolute flawless beauty 🤩

[@evren5642]

I’ll be honest and say I do think bridging that gap and having men come to understand their place in patriarchy actually often begins with men being able to reach out to other men. If we’re being honest, men usually take the opinions of other men more seriously anyway (there’s that lack of trust, like you said). I think it can’t be overstated the amount of good it can do for a man to reject the negative aspects of popular masculinity and to uphold that standard around the other men in his life. And maybe you’ll be mocked, be called soft, etc, but you also might inspire other men to start questioning why they’ve been hurting themselves for so long trying to fit this mold. And like obviously as non-man I can also try to hold emotional space for men as individuals and to reject patriarchal masculine norms etc; but I don’t think it’s my job to always be starting that conversation, either. I think men have to get that ball rolling themselves. Women are already constantly placed into the position of being men’s only emotional outlet (usually in romantic relationships). Nothing actually changes if men don’t step up first.

[@tashatomic4893]

+ when we are the ones to try to bridge it, we're observed with big suspicion (and i mean with/by those closest to us!), as if we for sure are pushing some agenda and trying to gain some "one-up" over them. I just... don't know how many more times i can try before locking up the remaining shards of my heart

[@justjoshua5759]

@@tashatomic4893 and judging by the sexist justifications and double standards of the comment section. There ain’t no bridge these women are willing to give. Let’s be real. It’s just not happening and they’re the victims all the time no matter what the situation

[@blooms454]

@@justjoshua5759dude just stop

[@justjoshua5759]

@@blooms454 no. I’m not gonna let you’re stupid sexism act like it’s rational in an echo chamber. I can type and comment so I will. Tough.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@blooms454 no stop being sexist.

[@wellplayod1957]

as a man who is still new to the adult world, i had a lot of pressure from the older men in my family to be strong and to provide no matter what. at first, i listened. but as i got older, i discovered that i could live a fulfilling life by simply living for myself, and by loving my friends. it sounds corny, but im a much less sad and hateful person now because of it.

[@grimtheghastly8878]

Look, all I'll say is this: I've been heavily sexualized ever since i started puberty at the age of 7. At the ripe age of just 12 years old, i remember walking to the train station with my friends after school and having to hide inside of a store because a grown ass MAN was following us and trying to flirt with us literal children. I've experienced sexual harassment all throughout high school by boys who were supposed to be my friends, have been the butt of r*pe jokes, and have had ny life threatened because i didnt respond well to being catcalled. I know for a fact that a bear would never treat me like that, so can you really blame me for choosing the bear?

[@nickklavdianos5136]

No

[@GOATEditz204]

That’s horrible, but your argument is not sound.

[@shaktimishra9710]

That's sad but your argument can't be applied in this case cause you haven't meet the same number of bear as same number of man

[@themagicalcupcakeunicorn5755]

@@shaktimishra9710 This the kind of bs women talk about. Y’all be so quick to find a way to dismiss a woman’s own experiences and feelings all because you took offense. Makes me believe you would do the same stuff

[@shaktimishra9710]

@@themagicalcupcakeunicorn5755 i didn't dismissed her feelings. But feelings aren't facts. Feelings can be wrong too .

[@littlefoxglove276]

the funniest thing about this to me is the guys upon guys just telling on themselves. just straight up proving why they're less safe to be around/trust than the local wildlife. good job also the dudes who made this a weird man + woman vs bear thing, like they're all that stand between a woman and gruesome death in a scenario where all parties spawn in like 🤣🤣 that's an equal opportunity mauling, hate to break it to you

[@allyli1718]

Literally. Like bro, you can’t fight the bear. Yeah women can’t fight the bear, but neither can you like what 😂

[@melissam597]

Like the Bear is going to think "oh no a big strong man, imma head out" 😂🙄

[@helo218]

It’s about women’s safety issues tho, before hurt and resentment

[@aelitastone5629]

Well, the conclusion more or less confim why women chose bear.

[@FishareFriendsNotFood972]

26:38 "We need to start to be more loyal to each other, and our shared humanity, than we are to this patriarchal system." YES, SING IT KHADIJA!!! This is the best take, by far, I have seen on this man vs. bear mess.

[@Dragon-Up]

The way men compare this to racism like racism isn't "your prejudice pushes you to exert power over others for your comfort" vs women's prejudice being "my prejudice pushes me to change how i conduct my day-to-day life for my safety"

[@Divers1990]

"my prejudice pushes me to change how i conduct my day-to-day life for my safety" That literally describes much of the racism that exists in the world throughout most of human history as well as today.

[@justjoshua5759]

@@Divers1990 yep. Pure cognitive dissonance it’s amazing

[@LintSplinter]

An interesting comment I saw about the “not all men” comment asked them if they heard a fart in a silent room, would they jump to deny it was them. A lot said they would, but me personally, I’d look at the guy who was so hurried to say “not me” and say, “it’s definitely him” If when women talk about “men” and they aren’t describing you, you don’t need to defend “all men” clearly they aren’t talking about the innocent

[@deathdragoncat]

I'd like to also add that men like that also have friends who are misogynistic but they still see them as "good people" because their not the ones affected by it. Those friends could have some abhorrent behaviors towards women but they couldn't care less.

[@SJP43]

Exactly! It’s like a child when caught doing something the response is but he/she did it too. It’s so hard to speak to an adult male human when the patriarchy is so ingrained in the psyche.

[@hirvale]

Are men the only ones who are supposed to hear blanket negative generalizations made about them and be okay with it because "they shouldn't assume it's them we're talking about otherwise they're guilty"? Or does that apply to other groups as well? Let me guess, whites: yes, everyone else: no? These "rules for thee, not for me" you create won't bring any allies to the cause. They will only divide further.

[@MiniM69]

It’s because far more men than society should be comfortable with have engaged in this behavior. The men recognize their past behavior in a victim’s narrative and reflexively begin to compartmentalize, deflect, and/or defend their point of view…because they know (and knew) it was wrong but didn’t care at the time (and probably do not now).

[@ricaard6959]

The problem with that is the hypocrisy. If I say "Women are shallow and only care about looks" then all women in the comments section will jump to say "Women aren't a monolith". For years women have crusaded for the "it's never ok to generalize women", maybe y'all should take your own advice, no?

[@SlighlyMacs]

Like i don’t understand how this is even an argument. Most people I know have been assaulted by a man at some point in their life - I do not know or even hear about people being attacked by bears that often and I lived in the rural Canadian wilderness for 15 years hahaha

[@SlighlyMacs]

(Also the concept of apolitical bears being safer than leftist men checks out in my experience)

[@juliee593]

Ok but are there political bears?

[@jadawilliams2319]

Are you kidding there have been many bear attacks and I can understand why people still chose the bear because of horrible experiences with men in general but there have also been cases of black bear incidents where the victim wasn't injured fatally but still injured severely whereas with a men you would have a greater chance of defending yourself than a Bear obviously. Since a lot of women carry around guns and knifes I'm also surprised that they literally chose a Bear over a man that's a human being

[@jadawilliams2319]

Also Bears including black are just as unpredictable as men are, so I don't know why people are saying that with black bears, you know what your getting

[@fromhell11112]

@@SlighlyMacs honestly so true, as a trans men most leftist leaning men ive come in contact with just say, the dumbest shit that makes me feel like shit or awkward, so i never end up dating them, good people dont need politics to display there good people, its the empathy you show in daily life, its like how most hippys are just stoners with a big spiritual ego at least right wingers are obvious

[@aeo-gard]

I will say, as a man I absolutely do feel like I'm only valued personally and on a societal level for what I can do for other people or society in general, in almost 30 years of living I don't think I've ever felt actually valued for who or what I am individually/personally. Maybe it's why I work so hard and tie up so much of myself in my work and 'worthiness' as a creator, because I've never felt like I could ever be worth loving as a man outside of it? Haha. Good vid as always tho Khadija.

[@rissahoo]

Being a woman in our society is much the same, except with the added twist that people (mostly but not always men) assume that your contributions are worth less than they actually are. I’ve been laid off three times - once specifically because I was a mother - and I’m now facing the prospect of being forced out of my job and applying for disability. Suffice to say, it’s a bleak prospect.

[@aeo-gard]

@@rissahoo I'm really sorry that happened to you. But yeah, it's almost comforting in a bleak way to know that everyone's being fucked over in different ways, and we're all struggling together, and it's only by being sincere and making the connections we need to survive and thrive that we can hope to overcome this dystopia.

[@mhawang8204]

Sounds like capitalism is to blame - if you can’t produce, then what value do you have? Remember the system is usually the real villain, harming everyone. All the infighting just lets them off the hook. 🤝

[@johannesstephanusroos4969]

​@@rissahoo No, your contributions are worth more. Please realise that you're projecting your negative self-view onto others

[@leoniep9231]

@johannesstephanusroos4969 she's not saying she does not value her own contributions, she says (based on her experience) others don't. Gender discrimination is backed by statistical data - the commenter does not project anything onto others.

[@Lunareon]

I think women have done and are doing enough already. We have spoken, we have listened, we have self-reflected. It's men's turn to do the same. The books and other resources already exist. So far it's mainly women using them. It's time for men to start educating themselves and each other.

[@kelliann]

Being friends with and being romantic with men have been two different levels of danger/abuse for me (towards me). Being stuck in the woods with a random man? Fine. Being stuck in the woods with a man im dating that is also frustrated/angry? Girl.... The fear for me is when they view me as being a possession of theirs. Commenting because im bi - and when i just date women my relationship/respect for men is a lot higher because im not experiencing intimate vilonce/boundary pushing that comes with being intimate with men.

[@schonlingg.wunderbar2985]

Why would you be dating people who view you as possesion? Seriously, if somebody displays that level of social and moral inability I would simply disappear from their life. You don't have to accept shit like this.

[@kelliann]

@schonlingg.wunderbar2985 I currently do not date men. I commented because I have seen no/very few discussions surrounding my particular lifestyle in which I'm bi but chose to not date men due to safety concerns (its part of the 4B movement and was part of 70s women lib, but haven't seen it discussed much in the man vs bear debate).

[@mikkelens]

This explanation is a lot more reasonable to me than most of what I've read on here. I think people are just projecting their worst ideas of what a man can be versus a vague idea of a bear that can just vaguely "sometimes" be threatening. If that's what they're doing and they want to say that they'd prefer a bear in that choice, absolutely, sure, a man who personally hates you is probably more dangerous than some random bear. The rest of this discourse just feels like a gender essentialist vent for frustrations about men, posed up to be taken as profound. The thought of me being seen as a creep for wandering alone or in the woods just because you don't know me (I'm a scary stranger) and I was assigned male at birth is not nice. Just because this discussion is in large parts meant to be a discussion about how women don't feel safe around men, does not mean it is not insanely alienating to feminist men who are told to look inward every time this discussion happens. Or maybe we should just grow thick skin and be stoic like real men :( I just wish we could say kill all men to get it out and then maybe talk to men directly instead. We're not far away, y'know.

[@fish-ft7ei]

​@@mikkelensMost of the comments I've seen on here talk about how their personal experiences with men has caused them to not trust them not its not just a projection. You also said its not nice for someone to assume your a creep but most people have been told Stranger danger, it would be scary to see a Stranger in the woods. Khaija in the video said when these conversations are being had to depersonalize you just did that putting yourself in the situation as being seen as a creep, its just hurting your feelings.

[@kelliann]

@mikkelens I'm curious as to why you chose my comment to put this under. From how I worded things, you can tell I took a large part of personal story out of my comment. I'd like to see more discussion about intimate violence and fear of men rather than stranger danger violence. Statistically, men are the most likely to be injured by strangers. Intimately, women are more likely to be injured by a romantic partner. I understand your comment, it takes a lot of stoicism to remove the self from a story we are trying to tell. There should be spaces for all of us to vent and share our unjustices and frustrations. My comment highlight my loneliness in these feelings, perhaps that's why you chose my comment as you mention the same isolation. I personally blame algorithms for these closed loop conversations that are one sided that leave people isolated.

[@myamoore1690]

I mean if I'm trapped with a bear in a forest that's where they live 🤷🏽‍♀️ That's why you won't find me in a forest

[@bloodbuddy7]

This comment is anti-indigenous nonsense. Just because you want to live in a sterile city environment doesn't erase the fact that we, as humans, as animals, also lived in forests for thousands of years and continue to live in forests in many places around the world.

[@quinnm.3127]

@@bloodbuddy7 someone can absolutely not want to live in a forest though, while understanding others are drawn to them or live there also

[@bluud6]

@@bloodbuddy7not everyone is willing to live in the freaking woods where wild animals live. that’s literally it, people feel safer amongst humans not bears.

[@myamoore1690]

@bloodbuddy7 Bears live in the forest. Which is why I don't go in the forest. That's literally all I said. If you want to find fault and start arguments and make assumptions about people you've never met or know anything about, that's your issue.

[@Adri_Unsung]

@@bloodbuddy7there are plenty of indigenous people who don’t live in the woods either babe

[@auttosave7320]

As always, you've left me with a feast's worth of food for thought! Your deeply-nuanced approach to every topic inevitably shines a light on incongruous beliefs inhabiting my "internal beliefs ecosystem", and I'm incredibly grateful for it. I'm certain that it's made me a better human. Thank you Khadija!!

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Awwww thank you for such kind words! I’m glad the work is helpful 💕

[@leavealekalone]

There is also a video online about father answering whether they’d prefer their daughters to find themselves in a forest with a bear or with a man. They all said “bear” with uncomfortable expressions, but only 2 of them could honestly say why. They all know and protect each other and rarely speak up in defence of anyone. I ever only see women standing up or fighting for what’s right, protecting others, especially strangers. Men will only look after their family, if they decide to care or stick around. I know there are good ones out there, of course! I known them and love them.

[@Sustaslife]

We don't celebrate before something great happens. Something great happens and then I celebrate. Men want to be praised into doing it differently and I ain't working... IJS

[@MalesAreDemons]

And still one of our biggest threats

[@idabergh-smith179]

I saw someone explain it as you can expect the bear to act like a bear but you can't expect the man to act like a human which I honestly think is a really good summary for it

[@kokikodevereaux4932]

Physical protection is rare, but emotional protection is needed frequently, and women are expected to provide that, and it's draining. Men need to unwind what they created.

[@PinocchioDread]

Weird framing. Why is the onus only on today’s men to unwind patriarchy if women also contribute to the problem?

[@kokikodevereaux4932]

@@PinocchioDread same reason that yts need to unwind racism........

[@SJP43]

This!!!!

[@SJP43]

@@PinocchioDreadMen created it, that’s why.

[@schonlingg.wunderbar2985]

Not calling fellow human beings worse than animals isn't protection. It is called not being a jerk. How hard is it not to insult people?

[@NubianGoddess007]

I literally had my soon-to-be ex husband look me straight in my face and say, “ it was so much easier when y’all were younger, especially about six and seven years old” ! He said this to my 16 year old daughter about a month ago because she stands up for herself and never let him get away with anything. When the father is the one & only true head of household ideology is challenged, all hell breaks loose , and I love this! The Patriarchy SUCKS!!!!!

[@Cyanopteryx]

I've done a lot of hiking and backpacking. Every single time I've encountered a bear (granted, all were black bears, not brown bears) in the forest, they get real skittish and run away. It's actually kind of cute how they startle like cats and scamper off lol.

[@berryzem]

Sorry this is completely off topic and I really do appreciate the video, but Khadija the moment you showed Lydia sleeping I just...thank you. I lost my cats last year (kidney disease and diabetes complications) and that random derailment just to appreciate and squee about your fur baby reminded me of myself (the way they COVER THEIR EYES WHILE SLEEPING [like "Oh nu I dun want the sun in my face but it's too warm and cozy to move to somewhere darker"] MY HEART!?!?!!! ). It really brought a smile to my face. Thank you for sharing that♥

[@KhadijaMbowe]

Awwww I’m so sorry for your loss 💕💕💕

[@berryzem]

@@KhadijaMbowe Thank you ♥watching people like you just adoring and appreciating your fur babies helps a lot. ☺

[@Mothluvr35]

When you sung Daddy wasn’t there to take me to the fair I lost it 😂

[@gaesimp__]

8:05 I definitely feel that a lot, that my value has been far more concentrated on what I do and give to others, whether than who I am. And it's refreshing to hear someone talk about what I've thought for so long, that men, women, and anyone between, all have a lack of humanity and trust for one another. I really appreciate this video and what it says, and I hope more men are willing to listen and understand where any non-man person is coming from when they talk about their experiences and fear of predatory men.

[@nunyabiznes7446]

as a man, god the bell hooks quotes still hit like a truck. I read it for the first time a couple years back and was shocked to find it was written over 20 years ago. The schisms and divisions she describes both in society and in the feminist movement still exist today, as strong as ever. Kind of depressing. Interesting note on valuing what someone does versus who they are, though your mileage will vary on how meaningful you find it: in the stories where a knight rescues a princess from a dragon or whatever, the simplest stories and some of the first we tell to children, there's more to analyze than just how it teaches young girls to be passive rewards. It teaches girls their value is in who they are, but it teaches boys their value is in what they do. And if we want to get specific, their willingness to risk themselves and conduct violence on others. That's what society wants from you. That's what women will love you for.

[@tashatomic4893]

Oooh good one. Did you also read terry real's works, too? (Like khadija, i'm also a big fan of how BH and TR discuss these things)

[@orairambles]

The thing is I would rather the bear because at least it attacked me because it thought I was food and it was the natural order of things, a man would attack me just because he can…how am I supposed to remain sane after?

[@OsirisThaMystikal]

huhh

[@postscript7783]

this is a really overlooked aspect to it; a lot of men aren’t understanding the psychological pain and indignity that comes with assault by another human. especially when that human dehumanizes you; thinks of you as a lesser, weaker being and they’re abusing you for their own pleasure. men who have trouble empathizing with this should consider how they would feel being attacked and overpowered by a bigger, more “masculine” man, probably verbally degrading them the entire time. they’d probably feel pretty horrible. women don’t necessarily feel “emasculated” in the same way but we still feel the indignity. there’s a reason people tend to be more sensitive about sharing stories of assault by other people, whereas wild animal attacks can be a crazy story you tell at parties (obviously not in every case, animal attacks can also be traumatic, but be for real; if you survived a bear attack by playing dead or something you’d probably be bragging about it forever)

[@schonlingg.wunderbar2985]

@@postscript7783 Even if you are not weaker getting dehumanized isn't fun. Do you know what is dehumanizing? Being called worse than a wild animal. Seriously. How hard can it be to realized that this isn't a great idea.

[@orairambles]

@@schonlingg.wunderbar2985 now imagine how dehumanizing it is getting attacked by your fellow human being? At least if a bear attacked you, you would still have your dignity as a human, you would know you were attacked because you were a human. If a man attacks you in that way, you’re being attacked in spite of being human… you’re robbed of your dignity and humanity.

[@orairambles]

@@schonlingg.wunderbar2985 this applies to assaulters regardless of gender, but men are used here because statistically they are more likely to do so, even more so than women and other genders and even more so than bears even in a forest…

[@Linds888]

Hmmm Gender war.. yet one party is disproportionately marginalized and harmed. Gender war.... when 8 men have resources equivalent to half the world. It is not a war. The parties are not equal and will likely never be in this lifetime when critical systemic issues are reduced to "trust issues". Trust issues are not systemic! Language is very important this is not a trust issue. It is a societal issue and systemic harm being normalized against women.

[@brennam954]

Thank you for saying this. It puts the burden back on women to not offend men when...we out here fighting for the most basic of human rights and men are actively obstacles to it. Yes, everyone should be trying to listen to everyone...but there is a colossal power imbalance and that same power imbalance means one gender is not capable of and has no incentive to listen.

[@ExeErdna]

So those 8 men invalidate everything? The women that clearly have wealth and power, the men that have nothing but their rage and scorn as people mock them for lashing out.

[@majorcinnamonbun]

I think the issue for most is the idea that this 'thought experiment' is supposed to invoke inward reflection and how men should alter things, when in reality, I know my actions ain't going to impact or influence a r**ists decision to r*** or an abusers choice to abuse, in exactly the same vein I don't expect women to alter how the past, present and future women choose to inflict any wrongdoing on my life. We can't change malicious people, we can only try to understand them, recognise them and safeguard ourselves from them. So when I see you in the woods, I recognise loud and clear we should go our separate ways and hope we don't knock heads with anything malicious.

[@somepenguin508]

Pretty much, it's really just people looking for validation and or societal change. It's a problem that exists due to human nature, and expecting everyone to live by the same moral compass is rather foolish. Most people don't want anything to do with each other anyway.

[@ExeErdna]

True, all we can do is protect ourselves. We could tell people how to save the world they would refuse to do so, or use it to simply hurt others. Why? Because they wanted to...

[@---mh7dk]

I wish everyone, men, women & everything in between would read Bell Hooks

[@frog3630]

i personally find it weird how men are mad that women are picking the bear, like if you know you aren’t the creepy man that women are afraid of being with in a forest, why do you feel personally attacked? edit: men please let me know something since apparently i’m somehow “generalizing all men”, if a woman goes out alone at night, who is *most likely* to attack her? 🤔 OHHH okay.

[@zacharybosley1935]

It's the wide brush mostly. Even if it doesn't paint me specifically, its a little upsetting to hear that "everyone like me" is some kind of problem, even when I go out of my way to try and check the behavior of me & my boys if I see it. It raises a sense of hopelessness, that I may as well not bother trying to hold guys to a higher standard, if we're still seen as the threat even when we actively aren't trying to be.

[@Anngrl69]

@@zacharybosley1935 I get it, but that’s your ego speaking over the morality of the situation. It’s like when YT people get offended cause they’re included in a broad stroke discussion on racism. If you yourself are doing the inner work, and even better community work, to dismantle part of the systemic issues, don’t take the broad stroke discussions personally.

[@frog3630]

@@zacharybosley1935 i think women know that it’s obviously not all men that are like this, though. like for example not all dogs are going to harm you but one bad experience makes you generally cautious of them. why do you think fathers/brothers are so protective of their daughters/sisters? why do you think women are scared to walk alone at night? why do you think men are less likely to be hired at mortuaries?

[@efghd2624]

@@zacharybosley1935 but that's not what's being said. Women have pointed out over and over that bears don't prey on humans and would likely leave a person alone. Yall aren't being compared to blood thirsty beasts that crave humans, yall are being compared to an animal that would likely leave a person alone and rarely attacks. Women aren't saying the average man is more dangerous than a bear on the attack, women are saying the average man and the average bear will likely leave you alone, but a demented man who's on the attack is more dangerous than a bear on the attack. It's not painting all men as dangerous, it's saying that the men who are dangerous would do worse things to a person that a bear would, because a bear would just quickly kill you and be done with it. Women know it's not all men, hence the comparison to an animal that doesn't prey on humans.

[@justjoshua5759]

If you know you’re not stealing why are you upset at racist stereotypes being used against black ppl Josh? Same energy. The point of why they’re upset is because it’s sexist. It’s typecasting any average unknown man as a rapist/predatory creep which would be the same case for any group of ppl. It’s peak cognitive dissonance showing in how this isn’t understood. When I can see how women wouldn’t appreciate having being called all whores or other unflattering stereotypes and generalisations.

[@AGuyNamedAnnie]

One of the most important things I try to point out to other men is that the patriarchy is not just harmful to non-men. It harms men in many of the same but also in several unique ways and once they can realize that, I mean truly internalize how shitty things feel under patriarchy, their life and relationships , as well as the lives around them, can improve dramatically.

[@strawberrysolar9086]

@ediblelipscrubs9466 i think they say it to include non-binary people as well as women, cause they don't really hold exactly the same status as men do

[@ExeErdna]

@ediblelipscrubs9466 The male ones often times have it worse because they end up not accepted by either side. Like women now see them as a threat even though they know their whole journey...

[@candlelight7600]

The cutting to the cat just existing is so relatable. Cats are adorable when doing anything and everything

[@Kawaiicarly]

As a feminist I believe it is only true feminism if you include how the patriarchy hurts men as well, and see the big picture which is more complicated than only women suffering under our sexist society. I firmly believe men would be less dangerous, and less violent if they were taught emotional regulation, empathy, vulnerability, and self love as girls often are. But the hard part is, men have to listen and do a lot of that work themselves and with each other, but that will only happen if they are willing to acknowledge the reality of patriarchy and the suffering of women they too quickly deny. Women have a role too, in being (reasonably) kind and not shaming men for “not being masculine enough” and stuff like that. Give the men in your life, compliments, encouragement, let them vent, be vulnerable, and most importantly, let them cry and know they matter. You should treat everyone like that, man, woman, nonbinary folk or anything in between. Because we’re all humans, and we will only become a better society by coming together and truly having empathy (not forgiveness) even for those who have hurt us in the past. Hurt people hurt people. Sorry for the rant, but this video resonated strongly with me.

[@mikkelens]

I think most people here would agree with what you said, but I certainly don't feel welcome in these discussions as someone assigned male at birth, and I don't know who I can talk to about this who isn't going to gotcha me with "see this is why you're not listening to women" when I just feel seen as a creep by default unless I try really hard to act feminine yet stoic like a man

[@gregvs.theworld451]

@@mikkelens As another assigned male at birth person, I just want you to know I hear and I think I understand your situation. I'm sorry I don't have advice for it, but I sympathize with it. In recent years especially I've done well to make friends with women and treat them like people, and that has resulted in valued and treasured friendships and relationships, but in all my years living I've yet to find one progressive space where I've felt like I could unload all of my complicated feelings about being perceived as a man, or about the gender divide of men and women, and trust that I wouldn't be shunned or judged or written off as a misogynist or kicked out of progressive spaces I want to be in. I think that is a real issue that more men and amab and masc people need to be honest about and express.

[@chai_lattes]

This comment deserves a screenshot for closer reading and reflection❤ From some of the louder responses coming from men, it doesn't seem like they're ready to have this discussion on a more honest or vulnerable level. It's clear many of them feel personally attacked and victimized under the structure and pressures of patriarchy, but I think it's easier for them to externalize the problem than notice where the conditions of patriarchy have personally affected and harmed them.

[@samsprague3158]

This might be the only comment I can 100% agree with. Thank you for injecting some nuance and sanity.

[@mikkelens]

@@gregvs.theworld451 This sounds like my exact experience, most of my good friends are women/femme. I would maybe add that it's become so bad I don't even present myself as a man when given the opportunity: One thing is feeling like I might be agender, another is feeling like I *have* to be agender to not be one of the enemies - not just to others, but to myself. Whenever I make a mistake, misinterpret a flirt or don't show emotion in the right way, it's like I'm One of Them. The people in my life can get away with way worse because they simply do not have to care; either because they're not being held to a high feminist standard or because they are interpreted as such from what they present as, and it's really hard to not be envious about it.

[@nataliezabel7757]

I tell this story a lot to my friends, but when I was SA'ed by a woman as a man prior to my transition, I would often be laughed at or belittled. One friend even going as far as to say "men will come up with any excuse to be the victim." However, now that I have transitioned people do take me seriously, but only because they assume this happened to me as a trans woman.

[@meeeeepmooooop]

Currently at 22:20 and breathing deeply to keep an open mind because I appreciate you so so so much, so much, and this is so complex. I keep coming back to the q: how many men are doing 1/4 of the amount of work and reading and critical analysis you're doing in this video to aid their own liberation? Male content creators for other men?? How can I care more about a people than they do themselves?? How can I want more for others than they want for themselves? Am I not assuming they are not as capable/able/have agency to access this understanding? To free themselves? Do I love them or do I pity them? No matter how much love I have, it won't happen unless they have that much love for themselves. It'll just be me assuming I know what's best for them when I actually don't. Men have to want this level of understanding just as badly, I cannot change them. I acknowledge my comment may be from a place of fear/trauma/not seeing things clearly, and I'll say girl, I do not see the mensies eating this up and freeing themselves, and baybeee, as a recovering codependent (most afab folks are socialized to be somewhere on the codependent spectrum as Mel Hamlett says), I take cues about how much effort to put into others from how much effort they're putting into themselves first and foremost. When the mens are ready to see the light and save themselves, they'll figure it out, they'll find bell hooks and Terrence. Today I rest and choose bear over the potential terror to be suffered at the hands of men in denial and refusal to deal with their trauma. If I'm capable, so are they.

[@mishiwakka]

This is exaclty how I feel about the topic. Maybe it's knowing a number of people who have been self-destructive, but I have seen how often help isn't received because someone isn't ready for it. We can't make anyone do anything. Until, men start doing the work en masse it's safer to be hypervigilant around them.

[@brennam954]

This is so well said. Women want to connect with men. We want to trust men. For men that are willing to hear US, we will be willing to hear them. But most men don't hear us, aren't trying to hear us, and are doing everything to protect the staus quo (even if unintentionally). While I think it's good to continue to invite men to listen to us, we SHOULD NOT be centering men's feelings in this conversation about our safety and basic human dignity, which we have never been granted. This is how I now approach things. I'll engage with men that I trust on these topics, but most of the time, I keep my distance physically and emotionally from men for a hell of a good reason. I think this is good. This is the only power women really have is to voluntarily distance ourselves (even in small ways, like with who we date, who we give our time and energy to, and who we open up to). 4B is on another level, but I don't think it has to be to that extreme to make an impact. I just want to feel safe and most men can't offer that.

[@meeeeepmooooop]

Thank you for your words as well, I appreciate reading your reflection and thoughts, and not just because I share similar perspectives, but because I feel heard. Thank you again.

[@tomtalkstropes]

As someone who was raised primarily by women to be a masculine man. Khadija, you hit the nail on the head. You made me feel very seen. This video is amazing and incredibly well thought out and you seem like a really educated and empathetic person. I had an absolutely lovely time watching this and " The will to change" by bell hooks is being amazon shipped to my house as we speak. God speed you beautiful individual

[@afrofaeries]

I feel like if a man asked me this I’d say, “I would choose both. A bear because if I see a bear I know to either go somewhere safe or call the authorities to handle it. And good, mentally stable men, but not you. ESPECIALLY not you.”

[@gabrielhoelzle8476]

Fr tho? I feel like if you're actually face to face with a real bear most people would have a clarity moment 😂

[@nnn9854]

@@gabrielhoelzle8476The fact that you don’t realize that women are choosing the bear despite already knowing how dangerous they are. Come on think.

[@gabrielhoelzle8476]

@@nnn9854 idk, it's all fun and games when it's hypothetical. Staring an actual bear in the eyes and choosing it is different. I'll believe when I see it lol

[@afrofaeries]

@@gabrielhoelzle8476No, bears and violent nice guys are scary. Who in their right mind would choose a literal animal that can harm me? And I’ll only trust men who are mentally stable, masculine, strong, and who appreciate the women in his life and his family. Those are the men I want protecting me.

[@nnn9854]

@@gabrielhoelzle8476 Doesn’t matter what you think. We women don’t trust men. They always have ulterior motives.

[@ohladysamantha]

One of the best analyses I've seen on this topic and discourse. The best thing so many people can do for themselves regarding gender is to journal. Well, a journal is a great book everyone should have but truly... you've got to sit with the nuances of "feminine" and "masculine" and define what they mean to you! And it can evolve and change - which is a beautiful thing!

[@mrGdiggity]

As a cis male I've gradually lost hope in the future of humanity due to the lack of emotional connection with other men and frequently having women respond to my vulnerability with anger and yelling. It's nice to hear Khadija speak with hope. I still remain afraid there may be no way for humanity to find connection and peace in a crowded, disconnected world. Cats though, they are just too fluffy to not adore.

[@jaceebrown]

Hugs!!

[@treasureobasuyi894]

Loser