I Feel My Husband Has An Inappropriate Relationship With His Co-Worker r/Relationships

[@Russman67]

When he said "I would rather be friends with her then married to you", believe him. They moved their conversations to a more private setting. They're a couple and they didn't tell OP. Time to do the hard thing and divorce this one.

[@ronhall5395]

Yes, time to move on. She, Debbie has him.wrapped around her finger. He said it all. She excited him more than his own wife. Let him go, divorce him.and be happy you had no kids with this chump..

[@ronhall5395]

Two things he did that spelled his demise. First was getting into Snapchat with Debbie. The second was the party he knew she needed to leave early but decided to stay late just to punish her for for needing to.go home. The rest was just him being a bigger and bigger AH. I doubt he spent much time at his parents that night. I bet he spent most of it with Debbie, popped in about 4 am at mom and Dads then came home the next day acting all smug. He knew op did not like him.hanging with this chick, but he went to her house alone that night. Divorce time. He will regret it, Debbie seems like a playa who gets off on stealing married men. She will do the same again.

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

I agree with you. OP deserves better and I don't see Charlie and Debbie lasting long. Mostly because I know office romances are usually frowned upon and people who cheat rarely learn from past poor choices.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

@@ronhall5395Honestly, if my partner knew that I had a time I wanted to leave and kept pushing the time back, I would’ve told him that if he’s not in the car by such and such time, I would take the car and leave him there! I know because I have done it before…gave him multiple warnings and then I left. He had to pay somebody to bring him home the next day. Now, 17 yrs later, he gets his butt up and moving when I say it’s time to go! 🤣 I groaned when I heard him say he would rather be friends with her, than married to OP. Dude just killed his marriage, but he was already 3/4 of the way out anyways. It sounds like he’s the oldest of all his coworkers and is flattered that a 24 yr old woman finds him attractive and he’s eating up all he can. What’s he gonna do when she gets tired of him and finds another target to flirt with? He’s living in the moment with no thoughts to the future and will come crawling back when little miss home wrecker dumps his a$$. 🤦🏼‍♀️

[@annisa8863]

Not to mention he literally left his crying wife by herself while he was sat flirting with Debbie.

[@cycy1578]

Story2: OP is a massive time waster! Just leave these women alone or stop playing . Seeing this relationship through the break up until you meet someone you can be serious with?😅

[@DragonbornMike-ym2er]

It's so weird to me that OP wouldn't just date men if she knows she has this huge incompatibility with women. Even if she doesn't have any serious intentions YET. It's foolish to be in such a long going relationship, and expect things to just be like, "ok I'm ready to go look for someone to marry, bye!"

[@dimsufferer9951]

I’m genuinely convinced OP doesn’t see other women as people with feelings and only sees men as a way to achieve her end goal

[@user-wr3vt8uq4s]

Seems like OP was up for some shagging and friendship to not be lonely or horny. She's 27 but doesn't want to settle down. She may be very startled to find it hard to find someone who wants a kid after 35 or 40. I don't think her approach with Grace was perfect, but at least she was honest. Her larger goals need addressing, not just who she's casually seeing.

[@AndyyWithAY]

11 YO age gap. Being called a snake by a coworker. We're already at multiple red flags for the husband. He spent hours with another woman while you cried in a room of strangers? 😱😱 while he DGAF. Let Debbie have him. He ain't 💩

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

Yeah when OP was saying "this girl called Charlie a snake, but he's a generally good person imo" I was immediately thinking "is he really though?"

[@AndyyWithAY]

@errantwinds-up8uu Right! It was already giving sus on a bus

[@Hiimreggie]

The age gap isn't that bad

[@AndyyWithAY]

@iwascrazyonc when you're over a decade older than someone who's brain isn't even fully developed yet it IS that bad

[@Hiimreggie]

@@AndyyWithAY what where the ages again?

[@shaetoons3602]

Story 1: I believe without a doubt the ex husband was sexting and even sleeping with the coworker. He's a pos and deserves to be divorced.

[@ronhall5395]

He said he spent the night at his parents? I doubt that. I bet he spent most of the night with Debbie. He made his choice. He did not divorce you because his lawyer friend showed him how much he would lose. He didn't want to be financially devastated like that. Nothing about wanting OP.

[@Germania72]

Story 2: I don't understand people who expect a different outcome when their partner always expressed that marriage is not the end goal. However, she shouldn't date seriously if she's always thinking of breaking up. That's strange.

[@absolutelyridiculous6743]

It's very strange. She did string her gf along, unfortunately. OP sees women as a stepping stone to her ultimate goal of marriage and children with a man. She's dismissive of her exes' feelings.

[@solmas2111]

​@absolutelyridiculous6743 yall it ain't stringing along if their explicitly clear from the beginning. That's called being a dingdong, thinking "you can change/fix them." Or that they will change for you. You date people for what and who they are, not their potential. If the OP being comfy and not ending it and the other person not being comfy and not ending because they don't have a backbone is stringing along damnnn.

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

@@absolutelyridiculous6743idk, is it stringing along if she told her the whole time? Maybe I’m missing something or I can’t catch something, but it sounds similar to a relationship that one constantly expresses not wanting children and the other goes along with it thinking they can change their mind.

[@pikachu7572]

When you're dating someone or when you even just have a crush on someone, you develop feelings and expectations. Imagine this was a x religion man telling his y religion gf "don't expect this to end in marriage because I'll only marry and have children with an x religion woman." Anyone could see he's using her. This is the same. She used her and the way she completely had no regard for her gfs feelings says it all. Also ppl do date their hs SOs others with the goal of a forever relationship. It's why we're so hurt when they don't last even if they were unlikely to last anyway

[@pikachu7572]

​@@terra_the_nightingale135It's actually very different from that because at least in that situation you consider the other person as real human with feelings and not just a convenient fbuddy

[@RokoFireFox]

Story 2. Im confused... op says "i was really committed to seeing this relationship through." But doesn't even want to marry her because she wants to marry a man. But also doesn't want to be married for a while. Op left casual dating the moment they hit the year mark. I.... idk op is... weird and confusing.

[@squirrel670]

A man she doesn't even know

[@notcompletelynormal]

And what happens if she dates a man and he turns out to be infertile? Is he gonna be discarded in the same way?

[@lisear2926]

Story 2: When someone tells you what they want and shows you who they are, believe them the first time. The girlfriend should have left OP the moment OP said she was not interested in marriage when the girlfriend wanted marriage.

[@akkiko]

Op sounds like a naive child wanting to have it all. Sure she stated her boundaries but when you preface you relationship with “I will never marry you.” how can you view their effort into the relationship as anything but half assed? GF asked for it but OP makes it an esh lol

[@lovelysakurapetalsyt]

​@@akkikoGF should've left if she wanted marriage. She's the asshole for trying to force the OP into marrying her

[@DisneyChar]

She's interested in marriage, just not to a woman, I know she said she told her this before, but when you lay it out end to end, it seems crazy that any woman would stick around knowing her partner is just waiting for the right man to come along.

[@lovelysakurapetalsyt]

@@DisneyChar Exactly this. Any self respecting person would just leave, not try to force the person into marriage

[@gxr7777]

But how many partners stay because they think/hope/pray the other person will change, but they never do.

[@raynellemccathern3018]

Story 1: "Let the bimbo have him." Idk why that made me giggle

[@youtubewatcher245]

Story 2: why would you date someone long term if you never wanted to stay with them and you wanted kids???

[@Solkard]

Because both of them were too comfortable and ignored each other’s red flags. One stated over and over that she wants to be with a man, but committed herself to a woman and never actually tried any relationships with men. The other was told several times that they didn’t want to be married to them, complained whenever they were reminded of that fact, and still got upset when their proposal got rejected.

[@lynnw7155]

It's so strange. OP seems to make it way more complicated than it needs to be. If she's casually dating, then keep it casual. I can't imagine dating knowing the relationship will "run its course". If you want to marry a man, then date a man. She seems to have a specific timeline in mind; other people don't always fit into your timeline. What if she doesn't meet the 'right' man when she thinks she should? What if it takes a long time to get pregnant? In my experience, these things can't be planned; they naturally evolve.

[@sersastark]

Just because I wanna date someone long term doesn't mean I wanna marry then or have kids. I like being with them, they're what I want in a partner, and that's that. Not every long term or exclusive relationship MUST end in marriage & kids.

[@azadalamiq]

@@sersastark kinda at some point a good idea to get the papers though.. spouses have more leeway in things then "commited" partners. it was the big reason lgbt wanted full marriage. not being married means you have no say in medical discussions, have no access to partner in court should they need to do anything with them. Also in the will... partner can be veto'ed out if family wills it.

[@Solkard]

@@sersastark If neither partner wants marriage and kids, sure. But the OP has already expressed, to that partner, that they do want marriage and kids, just not with the partner they agreed to be exclusive with. That kind of arrangement only makes sense if one of them expects to outlive the other. Otherwise, a pre-agreed upon term would be expected.

[@brandi5126]

S2: It's just sad and brutal all around. Grace should have taken what OP said more seriously and never should have continued in a relationship with her. She is unavailable and just sewing oats and wasting time until she feels ready and has made that very clear. Op should have noticed that Grace was much more invested in the relationship and should have broken it off. That would have been the kinder thing to do.

[@kashiialcuin1688]

I blame op a bit more because the signs the her gf was getting serious were there and she ignored them because she "liked her a lot" her excuse just falls flat tho because if this were a man I have no doubt she'd probably have been engaged. All this "I'm not ready to marry anyone yet" is bull because it's clear she sees relationships with women as disposable hence the dating women but she's also making serious relationship commitments with ppl she has no intention of being serious with. She's the type of bisexual that puts ppl off of bisexuals. Smh don't get me wrong grace hold responsibility too but along side Ops actions.... op just comes off as more malicious... she played with someone's feelings. It's fine if she's bisexual and heteroromantic but she should just stick to dating men and hooking up with women

[@Original_Tenshi_Chan]

​@@kashiialcuin1688I agree. Plus, OP was using "I told her... I told her this.. I told her that.." as a shield the whole time, but that excuse can only carry you so far when your actions are contradicting your words. OP'S mouth is saying "no marriage", while her actions are saying "and we've been doing great together for 3 years, living together, exclusivity, introducing her to all my friends aalnd family, even the family is asking when we'll get married! Teeheee" If their words and actions are matching, they're sensing mixed signals, and of course Grace is going to interpret the incongruity in the most positive light for herself. After all, actions speak louder than words, right?

[@sister_bertrille911]

OP is selfish. I would never have dated her in the first place and I would have laughed in her face if she laid that "marry only a man" crap on me. It's like she's slumming dating women until the right man comes along. She's a user and it's gross. Stick to men, OP.

[@mousepariah3884]

I'm with you I mean I really feel Grace should have gotten the picture when she had to pressure OP to let her meet the family. Like that should not be something you have to push for, if you do there's no situation I can think of where it ends well.

[@kashiialcuin1688]

@mousepariah3884 op should have broke it off at that point but instead she went along with it. Makes it hard when actions and words don't match up

[@pockypu]

Story 2 is wild to me. Can’t imagine dating someone with the foreseen end goal of breaking up. Yikes

[@chrisa.k.1531]

Well it’s because she uses women plain and simple.

[@graceisNERD]

Story 2: I just can’t put myself in OP’s headspace. So you’re in a longterm relationship, just waiting for it to end? Imagine having a partner that loves you, but doesn’t want a future with you. I’m not a casual dater so admittedly I don’t have the right perspective, but this seems cruel.

[@natytambasco]

She really need it to reject the girl in the beggning, like what´s the point of entering a relationship that is doomed to end?

[@bug-in-a-rug]

OP seems incredibly misinformed too, you can have biological children with a same sex partner. It’s expensive, but so is having a kid in general.

[@jenniferfoote5442]

It is cruel..i was with someone like this..he always had one foot out the door but also wouldn't let me go Its actually crazymaking!

[@ruthsaunders9507]

@@bug-in-a-rug She clearly stated that she wanted to have them the natural and cheapest way.

[@bug-in-a-rug]

@@ruthsaunders9507 Okay, but having a baby is already so expensive? Talking about keeping it “cheap” doesn’t make sense when it’s common knowledge that having a baby is still incredibly expensive. Besides, what about wanting to have a child with your partner is unnatural?

[@HaughtyHedonist]

I'm A Bisexual Woman Too, && Even I Was Confused About Story #2 🤨 She Contradicted Herself By Insisting That Her Relationship With Her Girlfriend Was Just A Casual Thing, Yet Midway Into The Story She Switched Up By Saying She Took It Seriously - Most Likely To Save Face I Guess 🤷🏾‍♀️ It's Hard Enough Being Bi Without Having Others Live Up To The Stigma Of Us Being Indecisive && Not Knowing What We Really Want.

[@natytambasco]

YES! We suffer because of people who act like this🤦‍♀

[@nilianstroy]

Also, she says her gf wasn't a bed warmer, while saying that she wants to have a child and a family with a man...

[@HaughtyHedonist]

@@nilianstroy Exactly. She's Confused && Needs To Do Some Soul Searching.

[@SLTheOneAndAwesome19]

Also, as if she can't have bio kids if she's married to a woman. Like, does she force the men she dates to undergo fertility testing to guarantee they can impregnate her?

[@runaaufbrennen7593]

YES! As one bi girl to all the rest here, this story left me frustrated. What she was describing sounds terribly frustrating and not casual at all. Why would you wanna be in a long term exclusive relationship and know that at any point one of you could just end it out of nowhere since it's clear it's not going anywhere? What's the point of the heartache it causes? Why be exclusive if it isn't becoming more serious? If you wanna have fun, have fun, but once you get to any form of exclusivity, you're out of the casual range imo. I feel like both OP and Grace handled this poorly but I think OP needs to reevaluate what casual means to her. I'm at least glad she recognizes that her communication needs to improve, but still... 🤷🏻‍♀️ and this is coming from someone who has always pictured herself settling with a man (not for the sake of kids, just because I've always seen it that way) but if an amazing woman came along and we connected immensely then all bets would be off and I'd settle with whoever stole my heart, you know? I just think OP is setting herself up for failure repeatedly hanging onto this expectation while still dating women like this. I feel for Grace in this situation, though. I wish them both luck though

[@AndyyWithAY]

No ultimatums, don't continue couples therapy. He told you he'd rather be her friend than your husband. 15 yrs down the drain for an 11 yr age gap. Do not pass go, do not collect $200, get a divorce. Never let a man tell you twice he doesnt want you.

[@botanicalitus4194]

Exactly. Therapy only works when both sides want to reconnect and make things better. He simply doesn't want that, he is for the streets

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

Yeah. This marriage is over. Charlie's made it clear that he's checked out and wants out in the cruelest way possible. I know OP is in a lot of pain, but soon she'll realize that she's very lucky to leave the marriage without any lifelong ties to him.

[@Streetwisefirst]

I agree. A first I said I would give that ultimatum. The wife he’s been married to for 15 years or this co-worker that he’s having an emotional affair with. But I realize if you ever give an ultimatum like that the marriage/relationship is already over.

[@ZoeAlleyne]

I try to not be "that" BPD girl, but in OPs case I would lean into my inner Glenn Close and try to tank their professional reputation. Or so my instinct says.

[@ditzyhere3138]

Who needs $200 when she's clearly gonna take him for everything in the divorce lol

[@avynthegoat]

“I’d rather be friends with her than be married to you”. That shows everything he feels

[@PrincessQ-fj9ly]

All throughout this story, I couldn't help but think, this marriage is over. Charlie's made it clear that he's checked out and wants out in the cruelest way possible. I know OP is in a lot of pain right now, but soon she'll realize that she's very lucky to leave the marriage without any lifelong ties to him.

[@jasoncarter4343]

When it comes to affairs, it’s usually the coworker. Proximity and time are the 2 main ingredients.

[@audreynothepburn7663]

Or the boss or secretary

[@cupcakecarl]

Story 2: This just feels cruel, and no one in this story is really a good person. Im in a similar boat to OP, attracted to both, but at the end of the day, I want a husband. This led me to the conclusion that I won't date women. Entertaining a longer term exclusive relationship with a woman when you want to marry a man is extremely cruel, regardless of the terms her partner signed up for. The partner doesn't sound like the best person either or isn't being kind to herself for chasing someone who doesn't want what she does. I just dont like this story lol

[@solmas2111]

Honestly you can date whoever you want as long as your clear on terms and expectations. Expecting someone who was clear from the beginning to change is stupid. Not to mention at least to be being exclusive doesn't mean serious long term. (Long term means like decades to me not just a few years.) Her comments are weird. Tbh their both dumb and weird.

[@theirishsaint4324]

I'm trying to figure out why entertain any long term relationship at all if you're not ready for marriage... that's so much time and effort...

[@GreyFoxVinzin]

OP2 is just wasting every woman's and her time with that crazy expectation. What kind of mindset do you have to be in to date someone for YEARS and fully expect them to just "Okay, time to end this long emotional, physical, mutual commitment, gg, goodbye" without kickback. People don't just work that way, and she's going to end up alone with that sort of expectation in mind or be trapped in a relationship that will only be there for the sole purpose of making a kid or two. I also highly doubt her partners left "without hurt", nobody puts that much effort and time into another person to just cut it and not leave hurt. I wish nothing but the best for her ex partners, they deserve so much better than the time waster that is OP2

[@silverwurm]

Story 2: if the person you’re dating has something about them that is a dealbreaker for a long term relationship, you should not be exclusive with them. It will just lead to trouble.

[@saldiven2009]

Second Story: Another example of how it's rarely a good idea to propose to someone before talking to them about marriage and verifying that marriage to you is what they want.

[@winter_s_44]

Story 1: Nothing else in the story matters. He straight up told you he’d rather be friends with her than married to you. Why are you in couples therapy? Leave him.

[@WiseWordsbyWiki]

Story 2: op gives me a headache, why are you dating women in the longterm if your end goal is to marry a man?

[@itme154]

"I actually just didn't watch the video! But I am going to comment anyway!!" - u

[@WiseWordsbyWiki]

@@itme154 I got to the part where they explained why they did. It still gives me a headache. I understand not dating with the goal of getting married. But in the context of not really caring about the end goal at all or not having a set plan besides "maybe I would like to be married eventually" But if you have a goal that you want to get married to a man and have kids being in relationships that do not get you towards that goal does not make sense to me. Especially cuz OP. Seems like the type of person to be very concerned about biological clock. So what like 2 years before she gets 35? She's going to start randomly dating men and hook up with the first one that will let her?

[@itme154]

​@@WiseWordsbyWiki Who the fuck cares and why are you making assumptions about her? She very clearly laid out her boundary. The ex stomped all over it and spat on it. Then you go ahead and say "Um yes actually it is correct to do that. The OP is the weird one!!!!!" I don't understand casual dating. I date to marry. Unlike you I can have some basic compassion and understanding. OP laid everything out on the table. The ex was dumb as shit. So imagine this right. Person A says. "If we stay together, I will fuck other people." and person B says "Um well I am monogamous but I'm going to stay with you anyway and try to change you!!!" Who is the dumbass in that situation? Is it person B? Then maybe you can use your sparrow brain to understand it was a metaphor. Person A in that scenario is OP. B is the ex.

[@solmas2111]

​@@WiseWordsbyWikii mean it's still a biological child if you have ur eggs frozen and use the sperm your partner has. But either way theyre all not smart. I have zero sympathy for either tbh.

[@nursebee-vomit5058]

​@@WiseWordsbyWikiShe's acting like being with a woman means she cant get pregnant. She keeps talking about biology like it's the end-all, when she could end up being infertile anyway. Is her plan to wait until her desire for a baby is so overwhelming that she will get pregnant by the first man she finds? Is she thinking dating a man is the same? Many men have their own problems that complicate relationships, like the typical imbalances in childcare. I think she's treating women like quick snacks while she talks about being with man like it's a full course meal. I doubt every other women she dropped was okay with being disposable. Casual dating can only last so long if the end goal is a traditional relationship.

[@jameshutchinson2817]

I'm sorry but Grace played herself, she thought that getting op to stop stating the facts would somehow change them. Op may be a little cruel because she clearly knew grace was more invested, but at the end of the day she isn't the one who moved the goalpost.

[@bunnyslippers191]

Grace has been lying to OP ever since before she asked OP to make their relationship exclusive. Grace was wanting marriage no matter what she told OP.

[@kusanagimotoko8427]

So OP in the second story LIKES women but doesn´t LOVES women, I wouldn´t be surprised if she did that to other women in the future, she likes the sex but can only love a man because she wants kids? Does she knows she can still have biological children even if she's married to a woman?

[@annisa8863]

That’s not really the issue, if OP wants to marry a man and wants a family with him where the children are related to both partners then that’s what she wants, end of. I’m sure she does know about your suggestion but she doesn’t want it and she shouldn’t have to look at alternatives or justify her preferences. The issue is leading someone else on for so long. I know OP made it clear to their partner on multiple occasions (which gf is at fault for not listening), and attempted to explain her reasoning for being in the relationship for so long, but it doesn’t take away from the fact that she was in a serious committed relationship with this girl for so long and wasting her time. It’s like, her actions did not inline with her words, I can understand how the other woman got confused because she doesn’t “want marriage” but at the end of the day, she’s here with her and has been for years now. This whole situation was messed up on both sides and I’m glad they’re going their separate ways. Hopefully OP doesn’t do this to anyone else

[@AngelDeed]

​@@annisa8863men could still be infertile. Will she she check their sperm count before marriage? 🙄People who put an imaginary, non existent child before an existing person and an established relationship are not normal.

[@llcdrdndgrbd]

Bold of you to assume she can actually love a man

[@dimsufferer9951]

Other people are objects to her. Women are fun toys and men are useful tools

[@ZombieSazza]

Urgh, ditch the useless boyfriend, let him and Debbie be happy together. OP is being neglected, emotionally manipulated, ignored, gaslit. Just not worth staying with him, he doesn’t appreciate OP, doesn’t love her, doesn’t respect her. Why should OP offer her love and loyalty when he can’t offer her basic respect?

[@unkownbeing5420]

They are married

[@amateurastronomer9752]

Yep, tbh it's not even the crush he has on Debbie that's the biggest red flag, it's that he's not being honest about it, gaslighting OP, emotionally neglected her, etc. I bet he's been doing those things long before Debbie came around.

[@LEVAR20]

its a two way street. She is painting herself in a good light but i feel she is apart of the problem. She is just not telling us cause then we won't side with her.

[@pascalabessolo5350]

​@@LEVAR20Victim blaming much?

[@WyntheRogue]

​@@LEVAR20Jesus fuck dude WHO hurt you?

[@madambutterfly1997]

Another example of if your he had genuinely loved you and valued the relationship/marriage, he would've cut ties with her without having to be told to.

[@taylorslade961]

Story 2: This OP needs some serious therapy to figure her shit out. How are you gonna get into an exclusive relationship for 3 years without marriage and family not be the end goal? I have a feeling she's left a trail of brokenhearts in her wake.

[@royal_stray7734]

I agree with your point, just wanna say that marriage and kids aren't everyone's end goals. Also to me this only applies if they're adults in a serious relationship and not high schoolers. But yeah it is strange to pretty much reserve someone until they either get tired of your crap or you find something better to do. OP shouldn't be in any committed relationships especially with other women if she doesn't see herself staying with them

[@ineedhoez]

She is a user. She uses people to make her feel good. Classic codependent.

[@brandi5126]

S1: Yeah, this is super inappropriate. Start preparing a exit plan, since you are already in marriage counseling. They are working up to a physical affair if they haven't already. Have some respect for yourself and protect yourself.

[@alannahd.7417]

Story 2:…. Why are you dating someone for TWO YEARS knowing that you wanted children??? Why waste time on this relationship instead of finding someone who also wanted kids and date THEM for two years?

[@kardellious]

Like she said she ain't ready for marriage. She still says she feels too young. Not only that it was the other woman wasting her own time because she pursued OP. Don't half listen and maybe you won't need to be spoon fed nuisance.

[@diamcole]

@@kardellious All you’re doing is condescendingly spoon feeding bullshit but go off.

[@jodieg6318]

and if she was so upfront with what she wanted then why agree to be exclusive? Maybe OP is incredibly selfish and wanted a bedwarmer while she waited for her first choice to come around?

[@kardellious]

@@jodieg6318 am I just gonna have to reread and type every reply to you angry lonely people on KZbin? You just sound angry no one wanted to waste time with you.

[@dopaminedrought395]

she answered this question in her update. because she's not dating for marriage yet. she doesn't have to stay single until she is ready. I don't agree with her dating someone for 2y with this in mind, but I also don't think it's necessarily wrong, especially since she was upfront about it. informed consent and all that. neither of them sounds like they're morally in the wrong, just incompatible and the relationship ran its course, like they said.

[@jodieg6318]

Story 2: OP acted incredibly selfish and did completely treated her long term girlfriend as a bedwarmer. Why would she agree to be exclusive and not think it was becoming more serious to her? The doubling down she does tells me she knew better but will never admit to it because that will make her the bad guy and not just a "Free spirit". I'm all for casual dating and sewing your oats as long as you want to but leading someone on for 2 years isn't on.

[@yippycat5303]

She wasn’t leading someone on, she tried to remind her partner. But I do agree, I think that mindset is lame. But personally I don’t see the point of casual dating??? Like, fun bed warmer? That’s it? No future goals together? Maybe I’m just too traditional lol

[@amandasunshine2]

​@@yippycat5303yeah, when you say one thing and do another, I'm not sure you can claim you reminded them, you know?

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

@@amandasunshine2idk, I know plenty of people who stay a couple for many years but do not get married because they don’t want it. Or they casually date for a while because it’s a good arrangement for the moment.

[@amandasunshine2]

@@terra_the_nightingale135 it didn't sound like OP wanted that either

[@terra_the_nightingale135]

@@amandasunshine2 I’m sorry, wdym? It sounds like what OP described, no? And her comment seems to make sense about if she at some point loved Grace to the point of giving up her want of biological children, then that’s what would’ve happened if they didn’t break up for otherwise. And she explained the marriage thing to Grace multiple times. It seems to make sense

[@dm9078]

Charlie went from having no socials other than Reddit to Snapchat and now tik tok in just a couple of months? I smell a rat and it’s name is Charlie. Edit: wait he said he would rather be friends with coworker than married to wife. And she is asking if she’s overreacting.🤦🏽‍♂️! Two years. Or three years? Exclusive? Met the family. Nothing casual about this.NTA but how the fuck did she not see this coming?

[@chaosshiva4165]

Story 2 is so awkward. OP was checking on her feelings to avoid this and girlfriend was so dismissive of her feelings. Like she was trying to prevent her heartbreak.

[@stevekerrigan6546]

I agree with yoy but at same time as ive learned askin about feelings alot will annoy people so not surprised GF was getting annoyed with it though might of been an idea specially before makin it 3 years for GF to explain her feelings changed towards marrige i do feel for both and hope both are happy but for OP they shudnt go past casual dating to avoid this happening again its not good for op or who they with.

[@MasterBuilderDragon]

Honestly, I think they’re both stupid. The girlfriend because OP has made it 100% clear what her intentions are but continuing to stick around despite wanting more (and then immediately jumping to the classic “well you’re just xyz-phobic” defense), and OP for letting this go on for so long and not catching on to her GF’s obvious hints and desires. I hesitate to say OP was stringing her along exactly, but she definitely needs to get a clue.

[@battlecat6766]

Hetro normative understanding of relationships is not the way everybody want to live their life, OP was open from the start. People can change their minds of course but you have to have respect enough for the other person and your own boundaries in any relationship and if someone crosses a boundary, in either direction, it should be spoken about between the people in the relationship whether gay, straight, queer, poly, mono etc… doing a big romantic gesture to manipulate someone to do something for you isnt respect.

[@stevekerrigan6546]

@@MasterBuilderDragon id say she wasnt leading her on per-se but accepting to go exclusive, meet parents etc yeah your not wrong obvious hints and what GF was wanting lol to say she cares though and then stayed with GF for 3 years makes it hard to tell

[@lynnw7155]

I got hung up on them evolving into a "situationship". What the heck is a "situationship"?

[@IrisAsuras]

Story 2: So dumb to "casually date" for a couple of years. That definitely moves into more serious territory. The OP shouldn't have dated her at all. Casual, you should not date only 1 person and shouldn't for longer than several months to a year.

[@ThePlayer4our]

Exactly how I felt. What's the point of being with someone for YEARS if you don't actually see a future with them? I think of casual dating as exactly that, casual. You don't tie any part of your life to the other person. Getting into something expecting it to have an expiration date is toxic as fuck

[@dimsufferer9951]

If OP has no intention of staying with women, she shouldn’t be with women romantically. This isn’t me being dismissive of bisexual people, I’m bi myself, this is me pointing out that I’m pretty sure OP doesn’t see other women as people with feelings

[@theresapaine7224]

​@@dimsufferer9951I'm bi too with a preference for men, but I would never date casually. I hate people who do date casually, like, what is the point?? Someone will always end up falling in love only to get crushed afterwards

[@IrisAsuras]

I got that vibe so much too and I also am attracted sometimes to women. I am demisexual, so I have found myself at times attacted to men and women. She came off really dismissive of women and how they might feel. Two years...not even close to casual.@@dimsufferer9951

[@theirishsaint4324]

I'm honestly glad to see comments like this because I'm trying to figure out in what universe should you put that much freaking energy into someone you have no desire to marry. Like that is so much work... This whole story was confusing for me because I was just trying to wrap my head around the idea people just casually date for YEARS.

[@ddavis8988]

Story 2: I have an associate that does this. Gets with gurls and do all of the realtionship stuff and is surprised when the other person wants a relationship. And his stance is always, "What did i say?" And I always ask him, but what did you do? People think just because they say something that their actions don't have to match.

[@quilaviper]

Story 2 is so strange to me. I mean, I'm aro/ace, so it's harder for me to empathize about relationship situations I guess, but I really really just do not get what benefit OP is getting from those kinds of relationships if her long-term goal is marriage with a man anyways. (Like, knowingly going into it with the very clear intent of breaking up later, lol.) Like, wouldn't you want to spend that time looking for and bonding with a "viable" life partner instead??? (No shame to people who don't want marriage or prefer casual short-term relationships of course, I just don't follow this logic when she specifically wants marriage and bio kids to such a firm degree.)

[@justaperson4656]

Nope. Not weird. I'm bi, and this is weird. Why get into a long term relationship when you know you don't want a long term relationship? That's stupid, it was an idiotic choice on OPs side, and she really set herself up for failure. She's leading this poor woman on

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

@@justaperson4656 It's definitely not a choice I would make, but I don't see how she was leading Grace on when she was extremely clear about what she wanted.

[@ZombieSazza]

I’m homo female and it’s really weird, like she’s stringing this woman along that she has zero intentions of staying with, and is extremely defensive about it. If it was “casual dating” then she should’ve spelt out her intentions clearly, actually sit down and have that difficult conversation, and acknowledge she took 2 years of her partners life all just to leave her with a broken heart.

[@justaperson4656]

@@errantwinds-up8uu her words and her actions were completely different. I don't want this to be serious, but come meet my parents. The whole thing is off.

[@ashassassin]

It's very odd to me as a bi person. The worst part being how she led grace on and allowed her to think op loved her when in reality to op their relationship had an expiration date. Honestly it sounds like op has a lot of internalized misogyny to overcome as well as her inability to have empathy for others.

[@araeast6923]

Story 2: I actually really don’t like OP’s attitude towards dating… like there’s nothing wrong with purely dating, there’s nothing wrong with not wanting to get married, nothing wrong with wanting kids, but… you don’t enter long-term relationships with the idea that they DO have expiration dates and specific stipulations or act like it’s just for fun experimentation. Maybe it doesn’t affect OP too much and it hasn’t affected her past partners too much, but if I were her ex, I’d feel kinda lead on and used even WITH the regular communication involved. OP sent some SERIOUS mixed signals by agreeing to do long-term couple stuff.

[@araeast6923]

Come to think of it, OP actually WAS stringing her ex along if she kept asking her if she was OK with never getting married knowing full well that she told her ex she wanted kids with a man… Like?? OP?? You should have had the DECENCY to break up with this girl LONG BEFORE you kept saying that!! You’re practically telling her “this is a waste of time, I wanna break up” without doing it yourself!

[@michamocha]

Story 2: Op shouldn't be dating long term if she has no intentions of it ending with marriage but the girlfriend knew exactly what she was getting into from the very beginning. It was pretty dumb of her to blindside Op with a proposal because honestly, what eas she expecting to happen? This entire set up was doomed to end in heartbreak from the very beginning.

[@dimsufferer9951]

At the 1 month mark in any relationship she needs to break it off from here on out. She needs to not agree to be exclusive. In my opinion she should not be in any relationship at this point because as far as I can tell, she views other women as bed warmers and she views men as a means to her end goal of having children. She needs to get some therapy and to grow the fuck up

[@MsTemptation]

S1: The moment he said that he would prefer to be friends with her than married to op is when op should have asked for a divorce. That was your signed confession from your husband about how he feels about you and staying married to you.

[@anonymouse9833]

OP 2 is emotionally immature and while not blatantly or intentionally leading her partner on, it isn’t fair when you know they’re more invested in the relationship than you

[@thylionheart]

I can’t imagine how damaging it would be to hear from your long term exclusive girlfriend that no, she doesn’t want to marry you because she wants to marry a man. Like how utterly insulting, devaluing, heart-wrenching-it would be hard to trust future relationships. Grace absolutely should not have proposed like that, but it might’ve been the wake up call that OP needed to see and know how not to handle her future sapphic relationships.

[@sharyebethancourt3660]

Agreed! And it kinda enforces what some people feel about bi people, like bisexuality isn’t real or something.

[@aduckwithanumbrella]

Exactly this! If she wanted to marry a man and have biological children, she should have sought out a man to date.

[@jakeking3859]

@@aduckwithanumbrella Why should she deprive herself of the joy of dating a woman if she's specifically stated that she's not ready for marriage and kids yet? She clearly stated her boundaries, and Grace just ignored them. Having a fantasy of breaking down your partner's walls and being the one they put their own goals aside for isn't constructive - it's damaging to both parties. Grace is the one in the wrong - she avoided talking about her feelings, trying to cling to something that wasn't going to happen, and ended up hurting them both in the process.

[@Nathan_Bookwurm]

I think both are in the wrong here, but OP more than the girlfriend. OP should have ended the relationship once it got serious. Grace wasn't in the wrong for wanting to be exclusive, but should have been honest once she started to feel more for OP than casual dating. Grace knew OP didn't want a long term marriage kind of relationship and still proposed. But I also get that OP forced her into this, since the only other option was breaking up and she ofc didn't want that. It just sux and all could've been prevented if OP just dated men.

[@AngryReptileKeeper]

I agree, but at the same time, Grace knew and agreed to the terms going in. She just chose to ignore them and wait around hoping OP would change her mind. That's its own flavor of dirty. This kind of thing is why I don't recommend casual dating. No matter what you both agree to in the beginning, one person almost always ends up wanting more, and they get burned. It's just better for everyone involved to avoid the trouble.

[@cynicalrabbit915]

Story 2) OP rejects GF's proposal. Personally I feel that OP wants her cake and eat it too. She wants a long term relationship but doesn't want to commit to marriage, with anyone, and she's using the excuse of children with a man to avoid ending up in a same sex marriage. i. e. She doesn't want to deal the homophobia that a same sex marriage would eventually bring. But she doesn't really want to marry a man, otherwise she wouldn't have agreed to an exclusive relationship with another woman. Edit for spelling and punctuation.

[@faeb.9618]

also the explanation of "alternative methods are expensive" is kinda wild to me bc like... girl children are expensive even when they're conceived naturally, just because you're not dumping all the money at once in an expensive treatment doesn't mean you're gonna be fine? she feels way too immature for relationships in general

[@MS-pi4um]

I was low key thinking she might have a tad bit of internalized homophobia.

[@dimsufferer9951]

Girl needs therapy, far as I can tell she doesn’t actually view other people as people

[@nicki0kaye]

Really frustrates me that OP in the second story is like "oh I shouldn't have to explain or even UNDERSTAND why I want something, I just do!" Yeah that's fine for clothing or food or really any other preference that doesn't involve another human being. Once another person is involved, you do owe them the courtesy of understanding why you plan to treat them the way you do. There are plenty of biases that we grow up with that are toxic and actually against our own moral codes, things we would never find out if we don't examine those biases and ask ourselves where they come from and what they compell us to think/do that may run counter to our true desires. I just think it's immature of OP to be so flippant about this driving desire that has such a huge impact on her relationships and her imagined future. To just take it for granted, esp. When it locks you off from experiencing a future with an entire half of the dating pool you seem to favor, just...I can't respect that. I agree she should stop dating women after this. It just feels icky to only see women as training wheel companions while ultimately she intended to leave them all for the mythical man who will sire her children. Especially bc she can't even explain why that's her freaking plan besides 'ive just always wanted that without any rumination about why teehee'

[@bug-in-a-rug]

It also feels like OP is super misinformed. Women can have other women, whether it’s sharing eggs or a sperm donor…

[@nicki0kaye]

@@bug-in-a-rug right??? but she makes a good point that it *is* expensive and more complicated, just...If you love someone that should be all the reason to stay with them. I just don't get it, but I'm not able to carry kids and have never had the inclination, so I don't understand her POV. I just think it's understandable that her partners would hope they would be the exception to such a bullshit, immature rule. I still think they should have taken her at her word and run for the hills the moment she made it clear she was just in it for the short term, but I can get why this latest girl didn't. She kept waiting for OP to show her the door and when she didn't, her ex decided to press the issue. Not in the best way, I think a convo would have been more than enough, but I understand her desperation that after 3 years, *surely* OP understands why she would want something official. She went with the romantic gesture in hopes it would have a happy ending.

[@nicki0kaye]

@@bug-in-a-rug plus, like. Its kinda icky from the dude's pov too, yeah? You're only looking for a long term partnership based on if he can give you children? What happens when the guy is infertile? Does she even know if *she's* fertile? What if her body can't carry a kid to term? What if the dude she marries is a horrible father? Why doesn't she just use a dude friend as a sperm donor?

[@bug-in-a-rug]

@@nicki0kaye Or if it’s the whole wishing for the baby to be biologically related to both her and her partner, ask someone in her partner’s family to be the sperm donor. I agree with everything you’ve said here.

[@nicki0kaye]

@@bug-in-a-rug that's such a good point. Literally took you a hot second to think up that and she hasn't even spent *that* long on the prospect but she's letting it decide her whole ass future. Sigh.

[@Tammohawk1]

1. OP is not over reacting. Always trust your guts. This guy lies, has told her that he like his "friend" more than being married to OP. 2.. It always amazes me up when someone tells someone how they feel, and yet they do the exact opposite. And then they wonder why.

[@icantchange.youtubesaysine7338]

Story 1: From the info I've heard in the first part, I have a weird feeling. Like very weird. So now I'm dying to watch the update. I need to know! Edit: Yeah. It's probably for the best you two separate . He's not going to stop talking to her. She's always going to be his priority. No you.

[@heatheraucoin5832]

S2- how does OP even know if she can have kids? She seems to be thinking that once she gets married (to a man) and have kids, all will be good. She’s still going to have lingering feelings for women.

[@CyeOutsider]

Yes I think OP is kidding herself.

[@ScooterBond1970]

"I'd rather be friends with her than married to you." "Your terms... are acceptable."

[@myweb4861]

Story 2: Grace most likely asked her to be exclusive thinking that she could change OP's mind later. Grace should have left but she already wanted something OP said she didn't want. If this were a man and a woman it would be the same. The guy doesn't want to get married but the woman is trying to push him into marriage. Grace is an adult and she should have respected what OP told her over and over. Especially when OP's family started asking questions and she shut them down. Grace should not have blindsided her with a proposal.

[@whims6278]

Agreed. Not wanting marriages an end goal is totally acceptable and normal. OP set her boundaries early on. If grace was uncomfortable with that it was her responsibility to set her own boundaries.

[@alvarogarrido5334]

But also Op should have never accepted being in a relationship, that is what many people are telling her, casual hook ups IS what she should have stayed.

[@saintjamesent.866]

Good lord OP 2 is incredibly foolish. The chance of any of her relationships developing to end goal would always be on the board regardless of set expectations from the start. Stop dating women at all if you don't want to end up with them or actually keep it casual. You were fully dating, not casual at all.

[@NottyAries]

I don't agree. I see it as a double standard. Men do it all the time. Get in relationships and say they're not looking to get married. When a woman then starts asking him to change his mind, people on Reddit say, "the woman knew from the start." I think everyone is missing the point here because OP is a woman

[@veezopolis]

​@NottyAries men don't get in a relationship with another man telling them "don't worry, I don't plan on staying with you, I'm just waiting for a woman to have my baby"

[@NottyAries]

@@veezopolis Men tell women all the time they don't want to get married or be serious. Everyone always says to the women "he was honest with you."

[@veezopolis]

@@NottyAries you didn't actually read my comment, you clearly just want to argue

[@NottyAries]

@@veezopolis funny, I was thinking the same about you. I made a comment expressing an opinion. You followed up to tell me I was wrong by making a point I was not trying to make. I cleaned it up / clarified. And yet, you think I'm being the bouche nozzle about.... something I guess.

[@ashassassin]

Story 2 is strange. Op wasnt dating grace they were in a long-term committed relationship. If she didnt want a committed relationship she should have said so. She never even says she loves grace! I feel horrible for grace, thinking she'd found her person, but op really was just wasting time.

[@titolieb2689]

Did you even pay attention to the story? She clearly said from the start she didn’t want a long term committed relationship, she said it countless times, to the point her gf told her to stop. Even the gf said that she knew the proposal was a last resort trying to change her mind. This is what happens when one person in the relationship believes she can change what the other person wants even if they were told to their face that it wouldn’t happen

[@annisa8863]

They’re both at fault but OP isn’t very clever at all. Their whole take on relationships is messed up.

[@titolieb2689]

@@annisa8863 I agree her take in the relationship is weird, but OP is not at fault, from the beginning she made her point of view very very clear. The GF knew from the start she didn’t want marriage with a girl. Is the same if before marry one person of the couple says I don’t want kids, the other agree, but in secret the other is hoping time will make them change their mind, and when it doesn’t happen the relationship blows up, and the person who never wanted kids gets blindsided

[@psyolytesaille]

​@@annisa8863this, she shouldn't have been dating women in the first place if they weren't part of her end goal.

[@psyolytesaille]

​@@titolieb2689if that was the case she shouldn't have been messing with women anyway if she wanted bio kids. At that point she should've stopped dating women altogether. Dating and wanting to be exclusive anyway when she fucking knew her end goal was dumb af. The fact that she agreed to be exclusive despite her end goal of a man, IS sending mixed signals. It is saying her mind wasn't made up. This is what happens when a selfish asshole wants to keep getting free milk from a cow. If she would've bounced instead we wouldn't be here. She is at fault, she let her assume otherwise with that agreement.

[@DarkDesertRose]

Story 2: I was under the impression that casual dating was short term and not an exclusive relationship lol Having a girlfriend of 2 years isn't casual

[@dimsufferer9951]

“I wanted to see this relationship through!” Like girl… what do you think that means?

[@kimberlyterasaki4843]

Story 2: I’m bisexual and I may no know OP but this is a weird situation. If OP had just plain stated that they weren’t ready to get married now or anytime in the near future to her partner, that would have probably been healthier for herself and her relationship. Also many bisexual people do have gender preferences. But getting into a multi-year relationship that has all the facets of a committed relationship moving towards marriage is a bit of a jerk move. If you want to date casually, keep it casual.

[@stuart4746]

right?!!! dating someone exclusively for 3 years and introducing them to your family does not say "this is a casual relationship"

[@kaidrazarc8000]

Nah lying saying she's not ready now or in the near future would be far worse as that WOULD be leading her on giving gf hope that later she'll be ready OP was honest saying there's no hope of marriage but grace didn't listen there's not much you can do when the other person is lying to you & themselves

[@MarkNarrations]

Oooof! Monday! Wishing you all a lovely week

[@broken_queer_but_fighting8589]

🤗🤗💜💜 you too m8

[@MrsMonroe714]

To you as well Mark ❤

[@cheekyweb8055]

Have a good week Mark!

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

you too, Mark!

[@sailoranime289]

What are you going to be for Halloween?

[@katphish30]

Story 2: OP is one of the most emotionally unintelligent people I've ever witnessed.

[@jodieg6318]

I would say she's just plain selfish and hiding it behind that indifferent mask. She completely treated her girlfriend as bedwarmer even after they agreed to being exclusive and the double down just shows it more.

[@Mirtis66]

I just cant stop imagining "well honey I called you in today to let you know I'm ready for kids so bye. Thanks for being my live in FWB for the past few years. See ya!"

[@tamsel814]

Reminds me of a story about a year back about a guy doing something similar. Said he had a fwbH relationship with his female roommate for years, she payed for most his expenses. Then he graduated and started a dating a much "hotter" woman. He was wondering why she was upset since they were never in a "true" relationship.

[@kashiialcuin1688]

Story 2... I take issue with the way op gf handled thing but also op should have never 1. Been exclusive with a woman if she wasn't going to marry a woman 2. Stayed for over 2 yrs. Casual dating should not go over a yr. She's upset that her words weren't being listened to but at the same time her actions belied her words. Smh I'm not even going to get into the homophobia present in her line of thinking.... Tbf gf should have been more respectful to Ops feelings.

[@Cassandra765]

Story 1: Yeah, the moment he said he’d rather be friends with the co-worker than married to OP, is the moment she should’ve told him to pack his crap and leave. Actually, it should’ve been the moment he ignored his wife crying in another room so he could chat up this “friend.” I can see why people called him a snake. Story 2: While I don’t think OP should’ve even entertained getting more serious with Grace, I do feel like a lot of the hurt falls on Grace for not being honest and not respecting the very clear boundaries OP set from the beginning. I don’t think she was tricked or strung along. I think she deliberately disregarded OP’s desires in hopes that if she pushed hard enough, she could get OP to change her mind. Maybe a bit of ESH.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

Honestly I would have just taken the car after one last warning. I told you I needed to leave because I had to work the next morning. At that point of being ignored while he flirted with his side chick, I would have left, packed his sh*t and left him a suitcase on the doorstep!

[@Azulakayes]

Story 1: When at the wedding someone called him a snake, that was a giant warning bell. When he downloaded Snapchat to chat only with Debbie, his marriage was over. Not only is he a snake who has no morals, he was utterly cruel to OP. At times you must take an active role to protect your marriage especially if your spouse shows concern. I have been married 11 years now, at times when I realise a work or gym colleague is trying to socialise a bit too much with me or flirt, I reduce my contact with them and turn all my attention to my husband. I can even use my kids as an excuse for avoiding them. As for him, if he feels uncomfortable with a female colleague, we agreed that I would be a buffer for him. I pick him up at work to deter her or I bring him lunch once or twice so that I can help reinforce his boundaries to them in a friendly way because he is pretty introverted. I love my husband and kids too much to allow anyone to ruin our family. Charlie never loved OP, he would have protected their marriage, especially after she clearly expressed her discomfort with Debbie. You have to choose everyday to remain committed to your spouse and family. Of course fun and better looking people are out there and you see them everyday but ultimately my imperfect family is my life and I value the love, assurance and comfort they give me daily.

[@stephaniesomer5934]

Story one-OP should file for divorce asap. The person who files first has control. 🤗❤️🇺🇸

[@PuppyKatt]

Story 1: "I would rather be friends with her than be married to you" is a deal breaker, a request for a divorce. I am so sorry.

[@Moffattt]

wtf is up with the gf in story 2? at the very start she was told marrige was not on the table. she then proceeds to throw slurs around when op rejects her marrige proposal

[@CyeOutsider]

What's up with her is that she was getting mixed signals from OP. OP was telling her she didn't want marriage and that their relationship was temporary but then dates her for 2 years. Usually, dating for years leads people to think the relationship is stable enough to take the next step - either living together or marriage.

[@Mewse1203]

Story 2" NTA OPs girlfriend: "Quit telling me you dont want to get married. I get it." Also OP's girlfriend: "she stopped telling me she doesn't want to get married. She must be ready.' What an idiot. OP was upfront from the very beginning and was told to quit making sure she understood. Edit: "I told her I wish our communication had been clearer." I really hope she meant that she wished the girlfriend's communication would have been clear because there isn't more clear that Opie could get. She was very clear that she wasn't going to marry the girlfriend. The girlfriend knowing this proposed anyway hoping to force her into a marriage she had been told multiple times was not wanted.

[@truthseeker9249]

THANK YOU. I can't believe the idiots who are siding with the ex-girlfriend.

[@user-blob]

@@truthseeker9249IKR! Wtf?

[@spinshocker]

It’s very telling that the inciting event that sparked Debbie and Charlie’s relationship was someone else telling her he was a lying snake. She knew he was willing to cheat from that, so she became interested.

[@s3rnielsen]

Story 2: OP's motivations are just strange here. She's happy to be a passenger in a relationship with a woman for years waiting for HER right time to seek out a guy. Being bisexual is part of her but she shouldn't date anymore women since most in their age group are looking to settle down. Having a kid that's part of both will be a moot point if that marriage ever breaks down. 😬

[@natytambasco]

I have to say, if this was a heterossexual relationship people would say that op is cleary stringing along the other person, because she knew she didn't want a exclusive relationship, but acepeted because she didn't want to be alone while wating for the "rigth person" to appear.

[@squirrel670]

​@@natytambascoit's even weirder than that because she said if an appropriate partner came around she'd ignore it. She's waiting for some time where she's like : yup, I want to look for a marriage partner at this time.... And THEN break up and start dating at that moment.

[@lusnoct4298]

@@squirrel670 Pretty sure that was either a lie or OP is deluding herself. Well, based on her view of her relationship with someone who, despite OP's protests, was clearly just a bed-warmer, the latter seems more likely.

[@squirrel670]

@@lusnoct4298 I think she wants to have her fun being bi by getting in these relationships with women, but she wants a heteronormative ideal relationship and is pretending like it's just a preference. It's not even that it needs to be her bio kid, it must be her hypothetical future partner. She also mentions IVF only like artificial insemination isn't a much cheaper option. Says she doesn't have health care but can afford to give birth?

[@ZombieSazza]

It’s fine for OP wanting to have biological children (this could be done through a sperm bank), but what’s not fine is stringing along a woman for 2 years. I know OP made her intentions clear, but if she knew she wasn’t serious about her relationship with her girlfriend then why string her along for that length of time? Her girlfriend was only gunna get more and more emotionally attached. Her ex girlfriend deserved so much better, so, so much better. A sperm bank was always an option, but OP was determined to ignore her girlfriends feelings, avoiding conversations, and OP shouldn’t have been dating a woman for that length of time without having a serious conversation. I say this as a homo woman, it’s fine that OP is bi but she really needed to set those expectations firmly, actually have a proper sit down conversation, and accept that she’s deeply hurt this woman for stringing her along for 2 years of her life.

[@Painted-Coyote]

How did she string her ex along? As far as I can tell she was very clear about how she felt which is kind of the opposite of stringing her ex along

[@itme154]

Explain clearly how you string someone along when you literally say "I want biological kids and will only marry a man. I am dating you casually." That sounds to me like the ex got it in her head that she could "change" op. How the fuck are you saying OP avoided conversation? Op's ex LITERALLY TOLD HER TO STOP COMMUNICATING. SHE DID SET HER BOUNDARIES CLEARLY. Did you actually just not listen to the video? Did you just skip the entire story just to comment?

[@barbthegreat586]

​@@itme154Usually, we say don't look at what people are saying but their actions. In this case, she was also saying one thing and doing the other, they lived together, shared household, she introduced her to her parents/ relatives etc. all the things you do as a committed couple. Even their friends saw it, that's why they're asking them about marriage. So yes, OP did string her GF along. Good that now split up, both can find people that they suit them better.

[@orchidoxs126]

I wouldn't say op stringing her ex along. Op was Clear that she was never gonna marry her ex. Op WAS however stupid for entering a serious commited relationship with her ex. Op very much sounds like she wants marriage, and knows she wouldn't marry a woman. And the ex, was stupid to... get in a committed serious relationship with someone who said they wouldn't marry you... knowing that down the line it was something you wanted?

[@ZombieSazza]

@@itme154I describe it as stringing her along because it was very clear to OP that her girlfriends feelings were deepening, and OP had no intention of breaking things off.

[@iononcantomascrivo]

The first story: this is a toxic relationship. It sounds like OP's husband wants to have his cake and eat it too. She expressed her discomfort concerning his “friendship” with his co-worker and he completely ignored her. If you ask me, the marriage was already on life support, but now the plug has been pulled. This whole thing is a dumpster fire. I was once witness to such a blow up when I was friends with someone who reminded me of OP’s husband. Let's call her Kelly. Kelly was your typical stay-at-home wife and mom who was fully capable of working she just simply chose not to work. She had no problem spending her husband's money but not on the necessities. Kelly always had her hair done, her nails done, full pack of cigarettes and booze in the fridge. Utilities, basic living necessities, the bare minimum comforts and not to mention taking care of her kids were all afterthoughts. Simply put, Kelly walked around acting like the world owed her something because she was here. Her narcissistic need to always be in the spotlight, be the center of attention and have all eyes on her led her to believe she had the talent to be an actress. I don't know where she did the mental gymnastics to arrive at that conclusion but she tried her hand at it. It should come as no surprise whatsoever, due to her lack of drive, work ethic, inability to work well with others, horrid temperament, complete failure to ever be on time for anything and overall lack of talent, aside from a walk-on role here and a featured extra role, Kelly didn't get far at all. However, Kelly did meet quite a few people mostly thanks to my networking abilities and bringing her along to events that I was invited to. That was where she met Jason. This beautiful Native American guy who looked like he stepped out of the pages of Vogue. Kelly was instantly smitten. They were just a couple of problems. Kelly was a married woman, was almost 50 and sort of okay in the looks department. Whereas early-30s Jason shredded, amazing abs, nice pecs and biceps to die for, he was also quite fabulous. Kelly should have checked her gaydar. Even if he wasn't on my team, Kelly chasing after another man when she was married was just despicable. Her husband worked hard to take care of her, their son and his stepdaughter, but Kelly was more than willing to cheat on him because she in her own words blatantly admitted that she “never loved him.” It's worth pointing out, that this was Kelly's second marriage. I do remember Kelly throwing a fit when Jason turned down her advances and she took to smearing his name declaring he “had to be gay” for turning her down. As if that was supposed to be some kind of a insult or a curse. I reminded Kelly that everyone she talked to was going to be telling her husband about her attempt at cheating on him and she almost crapped herself. Don't know how all that turned out and I really don't care. I just hope that Kelly's husband kicked her out.

[@StephFish1004]

Story 2: Taking the question of why they were dating out of it, OP made it clear marriage was not what she wanted. The partner knew that, the partner ignored that, then got mad when OP stuck to her guns

[@ergotempusvernum]

2. I would go with ESH. Op made it known from the start that she would only marry a man, but she also strung the girlfriend along by making a "casual" relationship serious. Op should have kept it casual by breaking it off after a few months and casually date other people.

[@rylashadow18]

S1) Op's husband needs to distance himself from Debbie. If he continues to treat it like nothing's wrong OP needs to vacate this relationship. He's making it clear he'd rather have someone use him than love him. Once she gets him the chase is over and she'll move onto someone else. Don't take him back. It's good you're leaving him to the gutter of his choosing. Just remember he'll come crawling back once she shows it wasn't about being with him just getting him. Don't take him back.

[@madambutterfly1997]

Opie is truly not eating if she believes that all of her past breakups didn't have hurt feelings and were all amicable. There is no such thing as a purely amicable painless breakup is that being said she did admit to being naive and that tells all I need to know.

[@abab7601]

I have no words for the Op from the second story. Why would you even date women if your end goal will always be to dump them and end up with a man? Just sleep around. I can't believe she was acting like a victim for having a partner of three years that loved her and wanted to build a future with her. Wtf.

[@dimsufferer9951]

“BOO HOO HOO! THE WOMAN THAT I SAID I LOVE AND HAD NO INTENTION OF DUMPING THAT IVE BEEN DATING FOR THE LAST 3 YEARS WANTS TO MARRY ME!” Girl is a bloody buffoon if she genuinely believes this wasn’t her own fault

[@diamcole]

S1: The last thing I’m going to do is waste my time digging through accounts for proof, time to end the relationship. Let him and Debbie be happy together - until she hits 31 and he starts looking for a younger girl.

[@stirrednotshaken4823]

Oh she will drop his a$$ when OP gets half the money…that’s less he will have to spend on her!

[@faeb.9618]

jesus the way i cringed at story 2, op is so painfully dense? how did it not hit her the second the gf wanted to be exclusives that she wants to be serious?? what this girl wants is friends with benefits and yet she's not doing anyone the favor of being open about that

[@chrisa.k.1531]

Story 2: Let’s say Op gets to married a man and then they discover that the man is sterile. Will she walk away? I think what bothers me in that story is how rigid her views on procreation are for a member of the LGBT and how she uses and devalues women.

[@stan8479]

I'm mostly baffled at how she thinks marrying a woman equals ruining her dreams of biological children. IVF exists, sperm donors exist, an arranged one-night-stand with a guy you trust exists...

[@audraverela3663]

Right? Or if she’s infertile, we don’t know, she might not know until it’s time to try for kids. Then her plan of marriage for kids naturally goes out the window. I think she’s inflexible and a bit unrealistic. Why not date exclusively men then to build a relationship and eventually marry if it was so important to her? I realize that’s sounding biphobic but that’s literally her plan. What if she’s decided it’s time to marry and look for a man and break off another relationship with a woman? Like “thanks for the orgasms you can leave now”. She’s absolutely stringing her girlfriends along. I also think OP kept bringing up the marriage thing to reaffirm her goals to herself, to try to ignore or crush any actual love that might be budding.

[@Luminoxie]

Honestly it's just sad and I have less respect for OP. She's just stringing along her girlfriends at the time until a potential boyfriend appears and then she'll drop her girlfriend because they can't give her what she wants. That's just cruel and honestly puts a sour taste in my mouth, getting into relationships that are one-sided and just dropping them when they're tired of your lack of commitment because of their inability to impregnate you? Fucking yikes.

[@huntermoses9606]

I'm glad y'all said it, I think it's really f***** up that she just strings along these women knowing full well those relationships have absolutely no future

[@katta309]

I totally agree with you but at the same time the girlfriend is also a problem in the relationship as she knew that op didn’t want to marry a woman and still she asked her

[@bridgetw8688]

Story 1: Debbie adding OOP on Snapchat was to show her they were still in contact. It was definitely a power play on her part.

[@cassieosbourne7666]

OP: am I overreacting? No babe, you’re under reacting

[@dimsufferer9951]

“He went to Debbie’s birthday party and spent the night with his parents” No he didn’t babe. He went to her birthday party then spent the night railing her.

[@gcarr1089]

Story 1 - husband didn't stay at parents after the party he stayed with co-worker

[@tifadreamers]

the moment he just left to the coworker's party without her and didn't come home, that was the moment he chose her instead of OP. I doubt that he was even at his parents at all. I wonder if anyone tried to question if OP confirmed that bc that part reeked of his lies the back and forth contact only showed that they were probably already sleeping with each other behind OP's back whenever she's grown too complacent. the fact that OP wrote the entire post and update filled with red flags and still didn't see it was mind-boggling

[@greendiamondglow]

See, you NEVER propose unless you KNOW you're on the same page about marriage.

[@TsukiKageTora]

I hate people like that girlfriend in story 2. I hate when people get together with someone, who has disclosed what they want and don’t want in their future, and try to make them go against what they disclosed from the beginning. I guess the same thing goes with the OP , however, she’s in the clear because she disclosed it and the girlfriend agreed. The girlfriend is trying to change OP from who they are and what they want and it’s despicable. Find someone that you don’t have to change to be with you.

[@user-blob]

THIS!

[@Slushiii6804]

Because OP made their relationship serious. Causal dating isn't 2+ years

[@TsukiKageTora]

@@Slushiii6804 the one who asked to take it to the next level, telling OP they could be together until the relationship runs its course, was the GF. And despite OP warning her of her expectations of the relationship, she still lied to get OP to stay with her. Sure OP should have broke it off sooner but why was she in the wrong when the point she would have broken it off was taken away with her GF lying to her to stay

[@Slushiii6804]

@@TsukiKageTora a relationship takes two. OP should not have agreed to be exclusive. I'm not saying the gf is entirely innocent, she should have believed OP when she said that it was a casual relationship. But OP shares the blame as well, for not ending the relationship when the gf asked to be exclusive. The relationship turned serious and it was OP would agreed to make it that way. Both are wrong

[@hi_stranger9156]

Story 2: OP"I don't want to get married GRACE" Stop telling me I know 2 yrs later GRACE: Casually discussing marriage didn't work, so I decided to blindside you to get a surprise yes and guilt you into marrying me. OP: i don't want to get married Grace: you haven't mentioned it in 2yrs and I thought... OP: you said to stop reminding you HOW THE HELL did grace think that was going to end well

[@truthseeker9249]

Yes.

[@gelibeanzcantrell7192]

for the last story, i'm going with NTA. OP made it perfectly clear that she didn't want to marry the girlfriend. i understand the frustration of constantly being told or reminded about it, but OP saw things in how her ex reacted to being asked about marriage that made her feel like she needed to check in and make sure her ex wasn't trying to move the relationship in that direction. in my opinion, the ex was hoping that by asking OP not to keep checking that OP would eventually change her mind and marry her. the ex claimed to feel led on because with the lack of check ins, she thought OP had changed her mind even though she never asked OP if she had. (i'm not sure if i made sense 😅). the ex sounds kinda manipulative to me.

[@joshuapierce3085]

I don't OP in story 2. She's "casually dating" a woman while her end goal is a family with a man. So why date women at all? The experience there doesn't lend itself to her end goal at all. And to go into a relationship expecting it to end? I don't see that lending itself to a long term permanent relationship either. To top that all off, OP came off as rather selfish to me in all this as she made HER position clear but never explicitly asked her girlfriend her position and just ran on assumptions even when she was getting vibes that they weren't on the same page. Personally, I think OP is happening herself by not actively working towards her goals.

[@Swnsasy]

I am going to say this.. If you are in a committed relationship or marriage and you get a feeling, IT'S NOT SNOPING! This person made the monogamous relationship with you and if you're just going through all the time, that's intrusive.. There is no secrets like this in a relationship.. Him saying he rather be friends with her than his wife, GET TF OUT!!!

[@ArcanineEspeon]

I think I know what you're trying to get at but this is borderline incomprehensible.

[@Swnsasy]

@@ArcanineEspeon Just passed my phone around, it's 18 of us, LOL, Bachelorette party.. Everyone got EXACTLY what I wrote.. Oh, and 40 others did as well .. Sorry it's hard for you to comprehend, you're the only one. What is incomprehensible to you? You don't understand what I mean by being in a committed relationship or marriage and it's not snoping? Maybe you should get checked by a doctor to see if you have dyslexia. That could possibly be why you have an issue comprehending words. Good luck!

[@wyrms]

Story #2. Yes it was wrong of the gf to assume that things changed without talking trying to in a way force OP into changing their decision. However, starting a long term exclusive serious relationship without plans for it to last is like buying an expensive cake and putting it into frdge to wait until it goes bad for it to be thrown away.

[@hariet6756]

The gf could have left any time. At no point was she even held a hostage 😂. Idk why you seem to think it's all up to OP when there is another person in this "relationship"

[@wyrms]

@@hariet6756 Please re-read my comment. I didn't say that any of it was OP's issue. I said it was girlfiend's issue. My comment about relationships was about OP's views and not about the situation.

[@mahdodo1]

Story 2: Every sucks here. OP for stringing someone along for three years in a committed relationship despite knowing it had an expiration date. Her ex-partner for proposing in order to try and change OPs mind about said expiration date.

[@Gotabonetopick]

The woman in story two is the stereotype that keeps a lot of lesbians from dating bi women.

[@kardellious]

How when it was the lesbian who caught feelings? Are y'all half listening?

[@wkkowrld]

Then don't date us. We don't need you projecting your weird insecurities on us. We get enough of that.

[@hoetrocity]

@@wkkowrldmad?

[@olispaamv]

@@kardelliousthe bi woman is leaving the "lesbian" (bc we don't know if she's actually lesbian) in search for a man. that is why lesbians don't want to date bi women.

[@RosiaMarz]

@@kardelliouscaught feelings???? They had a multi year relationship, meeting families and all😭

[@cottonsheep1493]

Story 2. Cant she just say "i am looking for a friend with benefits" like....that would make things way simpler than whatever she was doing

[@krazycats564]

Grace should have ended it as soon as OP told her what she wanted.

[@tntaylor101]

S1: “He went to see his (lawyer) friend two days later. He decided it wasn’t for him.” 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂 He told his lawyer friend more than OP knows about, and lawyer friend told him he would lose everything if it came to divorce. 😂😂😂”it wasn’t for him”😂😂🤣

[@Nicholem718-1]

Story1: Ok… OP cried on the couch at a stranger’s house while her husband cozied up with a coworker? Why do women allow this crap? I would’ve left and packed up his stuff, and get a 24 hour locksmith to change the locks. Next day- file for divorce. But I’ve been told many times that I act like a man when in a relationship. 🙄 This should be the behavior for BOTH to disrespect. Story 2: As long as OP was honest and upfront, she’s not responsible for ex’s feelings. There was no lies or subterfuge here.

[@themayhemofmadness7038]

Next time someone asks OP to be exclusive, she needs to end it right then and there. She needs to say “Sorry, but I told you I didn’t want to be exclusive. I just wanted casual. It seems our goals are no longer compatible. I wish you all the best in the future, but I think it’s best to end this here and now.” Though OP needs to consider the possibility of what would happen should she or her future end up infertile. I mean, I suppose if it’s her husband, she can just divorce him and try again? But what if she ends up infertile? What will she do then. It’s easy to say you will do this or that in the future, or you will react this way or another when something happens. But life doesn’t always go the way you want or suspect it will. I hope OP isn’t setting herself up for a huge disappointment in the future.

[@rickraber1249]

When he says he'd rather be friends with her than married to you, he meant it. I'm so sorry.

[@CarinaCoffee]

Story 2: bisexuality is a spectrum and some people are more drawn to one sex or the other, while some are closer to 50/50. However you don't often come across someone who's bisexual who was casually dating but looking for a heterosexual baby daddy/mummy. Usually the idea is, the person that feels right to have children with is the one they go with. I think it was very short sighted by both of them to enter into this relationship like that. Ultimately even if you had other ideas, feelings can change and sounds like the gf saw OP as a possible life partner while OP isn't there yet. I also think OP might need to do some introspection on her need to have a male co-parent she feels the need to be married to. It does give internalised homophic vibes (yes, you can be that even when you're queer yoursel, just how a woman can be misogynistic). ESH

[@infinitetranquilo]

Story 2: OP said in the update, they may be naive but not stupid and I have to disagree, because something worked out previously doesn't mean it will again or it's necessarily right. A lot of OP's responses feel like trying to cope with their side of this issue. Yes, GF didn't listen to what OP said they wanted and made a move knowing it would fail, and then made an issue out of it. But OP sunk 3 years into them, one of their other relationships was "just shy of 2" which is still on the long side, and she appeared to be waiting for an end without really knowing what it was just "I'll know it when I see it". This does kinda feel like the GF was a bed warmer for OP, despite her saying she wasn't. Dating someone for years, friend/family groups know that person, long term commintments are brought up and shut down nicely...seems like this "dating for fun" idea OP thought wasn't reality. I've got no issue with causal dating, and OP said they think about it like dating in high school or college, but OP isn't in college or high school anymore.

[@annisa8863]

💯

[@GalliaUchiha]

Op of story 1 needs to take that proof and get a divorce because her husband IS cheating on her. Absolutely emotionally and sin if not already it will be physical. What kind of shitty person meets someone's significant other and then proceeds to get closer emotionally to them?

[@maez4718]

2nd. If OP had no intention of marrying a woman, she should never have dated one for anything more than casual friendship/hookups, which she would have needed her to limit time together. She wants to marry a man, yet she dated a woman exclusively, which would potentially prevent her from meeting the right man to fall in love with. Even if she's not ready to marry now, a normal man would want to date a couple of years before tying the not. Did she think it would be instant? Pffft. She knew the GF was becoming too emotionally involved, so she brought this whole mess on herself. Throughout the entire post, I see no insight that she understands that you can't put an end date on a relationship when you are investing yourself completely in it and now she has hurt another person, deeply, she is spinning her wheels to justify her actions.

[@veezopolis]

2: "i really cared for her and was truly commited to seeing this relationship through" THROUGH TO WHAT?!?!

[@heatheraucoin5832]

S1- I believe that the STBX Husband hid the relationship with his side chick and stayed married was bc, at work he’s seen as a nice guy. Once ppl find out about the details on WHY they got divorced, his good guy image will be tainted. But he has feelings for another woman, the least he could do is be honest and say, “ I don’t want to be you (OP) any more and want a divorce. Usually relationships that start off as cheating on the spouse never work out, bc now they know they could do it to each other as well

[@Meepthegeek]

S2: I get not wanting to commit to a long term relationship, and can even understand wanting/having an exclusive relationship with a deadline (i.e date until high school grad, university grad, till I need to move for work). It’s just weird to me that OP would do the typical things that you’d do with a long term partner, like meet the parents or have family dinners with someone you know for certain only has a temporary place in your life. I feel like it’d be way too awkward for me to be like “don’t get attached, she’s out the door once my biological clock start to tick”. While GF’s frustration is unwarranted it is understandable in some aspects.