Love Is Blind - Season 5 - #30 - (Izzy & Stacy money fight) - Therapist Reacts

Dr. Kirk Honda reacts to Love Is Blind Season 5. Includes clips from Love Is Blind (Netflix), episode 6.
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[@AprilT72]

If I got married under these circumstances I would ABSOLUTELY keep my finances separate for a while.

[@CharleyCharlez]

Agreed! And it wouldn't make good business sense to drop thousands of dollars on a house that i didn't technically own

[@TheIndigo1child]

​@@CharleyCharlezExactly. I don't think it's fair to expect 50% contribution to the major household repairs unless she puts his name on the deed or somehow puts it in writing that he has stake in the value of the house if there is an early divorce.

[@k.ambriz9789]

I think in this case since they really don’t know each other and the chance of divorce is probably very high I would consider a prenup. In a community property state it gets split 50-50 otherwise. Yikes.

[@a-moon]

I would get a prenup under these circumstances!!

[@Decencyisfree]

My partner and I have our own accounts and then a shared account (that we both add too) we pay bills together from. It really has removed so much pressure, always us to surprise each other, etc. We once shared them all and the improvement on our relationship was quite notable

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

It's understandable that she (or anyone) would have financial concerns and want to talk about them, but she should have done this in the pods instead of pushing off serious talk because she "likes to have fun". It feels like in that way they both lied by omission, that she expected him to be Daddy Warbucks and that he had a bad credit score. And then when they do have the money convo, she's telling him "how it is" instead of it being a collaboration. That's a problem

[@ILuvMyBrwnSkin]

Perfectly said

[@Sough]

Well said

[@BecxCozyCorner]

💯

[@Pattie-o7f]

I had all these problematic issues all rolled into one who is my exhusband 😮

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Agreed

[@mmtstan9360]

She's completely offended that he wants to split dinner 50/50 but she asked him to split a $20,000 HVAC 50/50 immediately beforehand

[@jakestroll6518]

She’s thinking of dinner as a romantic event and honestly she’s right. I’m with Dr Honda, I don’t want my girlfriend who’s already saddled with the makeup and dress up expenses of dating life, also paying for our dates. Even if she wasn’t the type of girl to make that effort for our dates, I STILL wouldn’t need to be asked. Izzy is looking for a sugarmama

[@YukonAML]

Yeah, the refusal to split dinner, ie. "The man pays", is so gross to me. We all work hard for our money, pay your way ma'am.

[@onedirectionlover317]

It’s ridiculous that someone who doesn’t want to pay for someone else is “looking for a sugar mama”. I don’t want to pay for someone else unless it’s a gift / treat for them (and I wouldn’t want it to be one sided against me), so why should I expect a guy to be willing to endure that? It’s not fair.

[@orlandocast7941]

@@YukonAMLI definitely understand where you’re coming from but specifically in relation to gender roles a lot of what we find acceptable comes directly from what we witnessed from our parents. Since her father is clearly wealthy she’s probably accustomed to him taking care of the expenses and she’s under the impression it’s “normal”.

[@sallycinnamon5370]

Plus I don’t think she is explaining what he is getting in exchange for this benefit . What if the HVAC breaks in 2 years. He has to pay 10K for the replacement…then they get divorced a year later. Does he get to keep half the HVAC? Is she going to repay him for the 10K he spent on the HVAC? He needs to be advocating for himself. If he starts paying half of the expenses then he should get half of the equity that is built in the house from that time. That in my scenario he gets nothing back for the HVAC…but she has to pay him out 50% of what equity was built on the house in those 3 years with reasonable market inflation. Also…the man getting the bill out of his paycheck for every date is ridiculous unless the woman is a stay at home mom

[@aleksismil]

Stacy is probably the most clueless person regarding class differences and class experience. Izzy comes from a working class and he has experienced poverty. And the way she talks about her father paying for everything she sounds like a spoiled rich brat that has her dad covering whatever material obsession she has.

[@Solotv84]

You can tell she looks down on people that are not on her level or above. She’s probably was raised in a cushy upper class lifestyle. I know many girls like her who go through life without ever having to struggle.

[@aleksismil]

@@Solotv84 This is not related to gender. It is related to her class identity. There are rich snobs everywhere and they can be any gender.

[@Solotv84]

@@aleksismil Did you not watch the whole video? Stacy expect the man to pay she even told Izzy she never had a man pay so part of it is gender based because stacy expects the opposite gender to pay for her lifestyle

[@dazedconfuseds]

Honestly rich brats are both genders. I went to uni with them. The ones at work aren't too bad. With upper class men do tend to pay. That's the world snes from. She doesn't need to ask, it gets done

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

While she’s probably clueless and could have approached this with more tact. It is extremely important to discuss finances before marrying someone and your expectations as it’s a huge cause of divorce and the reality is the system sucks, it’s not fair, and we need to push for political, social and economic change - however, I don’t think it’s an individuals responsibility to jeopardise their financial stability. They are supposed to get married at the end of this so it really needs to be agreed.

[@Twirlingbarbie]

She obviously never had to start from scratch. She probably calls herself "self-made" but that doesn't count if you didn't had to start from 0

[@annie_charcheologist]

Not to mention the privilege of a good education and the resources (ie access to computer = computer literacy), study and career guidance, financial education from parents that middle or upper middle-class have.

[@amara560]

Very meritocracy, American dream, Trump made his own way after being gifted his first million dollars, etc

[@reu2002]

Yeah her dad 100% bought her that house lol. She’s not getting down payment together from teaching the odd Pilates class

[@Daijxo]

I suspect Izzy detected this about Stacy in the pods because Johni knew about Izzy’s financial situation, so why is it he is seemingly hiding this from her.

[@shelbylee242]

I think they just never had these conversations because Stacey was the "fun" option, Johnnie was the "serious" option

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Yeah...Izzy has suspicious behaviors to me. He seemed more honest with Johnie and that, maybe, made him feel to vulnerable.

[@rubiirae]

@@shelbylee242 did you even watch the latest episodes? stacy asked the questions but izzy just danced around her questions and hid the truth from her

[@plutoniumcore]

I believe Izzy knew he would be jugded negatively by Stacy, thus, he would always try to avoid that topic

[@Kloves818]

@@rubiirae It doesn't seem like she asked the right questions. If money is so crucial to your lifestyle "whats your credit score?" seems like an obvious question.

[@143Shayx]

Her dad indirectly told him, no matter if 2 people love each other LOVE HAS TO EAT

[@bluebeeren]

and sometimes fly first class.

[@MJ31579]

Love HAS to eat caviar in first class 😅

[@majob2363]

Love is expensive, can you afford it😂😂😂

[@ElohorB]

@@bluebeerenthat’s honestly my favourite tag line of this season 😂😂

[@RockyDaTherapist]

I also got the sense he would help Izzy out with finances secretly if it meant he could finally marry her off.

[@selina9296]

He was quiet because he doesn’t want her to know he’s broke

[@Solotv84]

😂🤣😂

[@rethinkcps2116]

...did he buy the ring? Or does the show pay? ❤💍

[@applepie3276]

@@rethinkcps2116show pays

[@Whatevertheheck]

@@rethinkcps2116 Show pays and I think they’re fake rings! Like not diamonds at all… the cheaper kind

[@donteverfckwithmyvibe]

...and there's nothing wrong with being broke, as long as you're honest about it

[@srm0520]

“I doubt this will be a dealbreaker for the two of them” 🤔🤔 Dr Honda has so much faith in people! 💕

[@lizkaufman2549]

Am I the only one who saw this as a thinly-veiled financial status bragging session for Stacey and a way to establish another layer of dominance and superiority over Izzy?

[@zonthisv4915]

100% this. I see her ego running this conversation like a script. She sets it all up so he responds in a certain way, which is her line to pick up from and continue in the script. Super transparant in my opinion. What she wanted to communicate here is her class, status and how she wants to be perceived worth wise. That’s what the smiling is about when she says that she never has been ‘asked to split’. It’s soo self conscious and she feels almost caught (which is true). Izzy’s ego for a little part catches on to it by not giving her ALL the rope she wants by keeping it more open and neutral with his ‘Okayyyy…’ (to put the ball in her court again)

[@meredithadams9468]

Yea I agree. She completely changed out of the pods. She’s not easy breezy Stacy anymore 😂

[@macarmenadoree]

Yes, in this moment among several others she comes off as being pretty classist

[@MSmith-qg1oh]

On top of that I doubt she did this “on her own” given the way she talks about her dad paying for things and not wanting him and her to be taken advantage of. She even had her dad’s couch in her home……🧐

[@Hala-alkhalili2]

I was looking for this comment

[@jennifersvea1]

i will say that for this show, i don't think it's wrong to keep their financials separate bc theyre relationships are so new even though they're getting married.

[@mkaverage4773]

Absolutely! It is crazy to combine finances after two months.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

​@@mkaverage4773I did! But I also didn't find my wife on a game show.

[@onedirectionlover317]

Oh for sure, I don't think they should necessarily combine finances right off the bat (and heck, they don't ever have to if they don't want!)

[@lanceareadbhar]

That's completely fair, but in that case it seems very unreasonable for Izzy to always pay for dinner given income difference. She'll either be bitter they don't go out enough or be annoyed when he runs into financial issues paying for so many dinners he can't afford on his salary and will likely get resentful knowing that she can afford these dinners.

[@AnnaBeNan]

In my opinion, it’s fully dependent on salary of each member of the relationship. Percentage of covered expenses come from that information. Someone makes 100k, someone makes 50k, the person with the 100k should be paying more of the bills. I realize this is a more complicated issue but it makes sense in my own relationship. Lastly, I agree with DH, when you’re married with combined finances or not, it’s all out of the same pool.

[@Naejakire3]

I agree and it's weird when people decide to MARRY someone but then don't want to put their share in. It shouldn't always be the man paying, it depends on salary. My partner made significantly less than me for a bit and I had zero issue paying more because I know he would do the same. If you care about the person, I don't feel like that should built resentment, unless they like, refuse to help at all or refuse to work when 2 incomes are needed.

[@slow.and.hot717]

My boyfriend and I have been living together for 6 years. Since the beginning we agreed on splitting the expenses in the way that I would cover the rent, he would cover the bills and then we would just spend our money as we normally would. We were making about the same then with me having a slightly higher salary, so I was covering the rent which was our highest expense then. In the meantime, we had a child and I quit my job to be a stay at home mom for a few years (we couldn't afford daycare and we live far from both of our families). Financially, it was a challenging time. We had only one salary and some of my savings, while we needed more money for baby supplies. For this reason, he went for a higher paying job so we can afford having me home with our son and be able to pay back our debts (that we made while I was out of work). This job also meant he would be spending most of his time away from home and I would be managing all of the money he was earning for all of our family expenses. Fast forward to today. I am working again so again we have 2 salaries, however my salary is much lower than his currently is. I am back to covering the rent from my earnings, but that is because rent (although it has gone up) is now the cheapest expense we have. His earnings cover the rest of the bills, which are almost double what our rent is, but again he makes more than double what I make... We still have our own money and we make small purchases independently but consult each other on big purchases, even if it is technically "our money", because at the end of the day, it is shared for our family and we need to agree on such decisions. What is funny is that this was always done without much debate, just made sense to do it this way. We have discussed future plans of becoming home owners. We will do this together as well - we are saving money from his earnings for down payment (I'm not sure if this is the right expression) and I am looking into loans that I can take in my name for the rest of the money required for the purchase. Again, we didn't debate much about it because I have a stable job and am able to take out a loan and his is a more unstable but higher paying job so we can save more from his earnings. It just makes sense that way for us. But yes, I agree it is proportionate to earnings.

[@mikeparrott8304]

Lol behold the modern woman😅

[@sfooshy4517]

My husband and I don't keep track of that kind of thing because it will just build resentment. Obviously we both try to be financially responsible. 50/50 is weird bc if one partner makes less, it feels like they're doing more than the other partner. Also it feels good to give and provide 🤷‍♀️

[@caroline-ou2st]

I think Stacy was used to Money „being There“ because of her background. The dad didn‘t agree on the house so she has to Take Care of it without financial Support. Now she‘s looking for someone to pay for the bills so she can keep the fancy lifestyle. Izzy has a lot of work to do on himself, but something about stacy constantly letting him know he‘s not good enough for her… i don‘t know. He got what he chose in the end

[@Solotv84]

No, it makes sense why it never works out with those 45 year old rich men for Stacy

[@em8066]

As someone who grew up with being constantly hungry, dirty, unsure if our housing would be taken, and surrounded by an unsafe neighborhood that my single mom couldn't afford to move us out of, I would never tie that experience to paying for a round of drinks or a fancy meal. No. I have no polite words.

[@lanagustafson1700]

The thing with asking someone else to contribute a certain amount is that it requires them to have the money for it. If Izzy just doesn’t have that money, and she insists that she needs those things, then this might be a dealbreaker. I understand that someone who doesn’t have a lot of money would be uncomfortable with being expected to pay no matter what. It would be a different story if he was a millionaire but refused to get her dinner (now and then)

[@anomaly1711]

I feel like Stacy is right to want to have an equal financially in her partner, but it's also not fair to put something on Izzy which is clearly an unrealistic expectation. I feel like he's just pretending to accomodate and sacrificing his opinions and needs thinking it will pay off in love but you can't sacrifice yourself to recieve another person, at least not in the extreme, and it feels like the sex and money thing as well as Stacy's emotional unavailability leaves Izzy in a place where he's expected to give more than he can and more than he receives in a lot of ways, it's just not an equal partnership on all fields. I feel like a fair thing for Stacy to do would be like hey, I got this house before you existed and I get that, so big things like the HVAC is something I'll take responsibility for, but the smaller everyday things like dinner, I want to feel like a princess or have payed for, but she doesn't phrase it this way and would not be satisfied with it being that way which is asking a lot for what Izzy seems to be able to offer

[@onedirectionlover317]

Exactly! That's the big thing! I get not wanting to be taken advantage of financially, but if you're dragging someone into an expense in which they had no say, it's not exploitative for him (imo) to say "hey, you already bought this house, and are invested in it, so sure we'll live here after marriage, but I would not have chosen a house this expensive since I know I can't afford a $20k HVAC, so I'm nervous about the financial expectation from me". I have certain lifestyle things I want (eg. proximity to work to avoid long commutes, etc., and being able to afford a place that meets that criteria), but idk, I wouldn't assume negatively about their character if they couldn't / didn't want to afford such a place and, say, would be fine with a longer commute for a cheaper place. It'd just signal different financial statuses and / or priorities. If they expressed entitlement to staying there without contributing at least an amount proportional to their income, then I'd raise eyebrows about financial exploitation. I at least didn't see any indications that Izzy was trying to greedily leech off of Stacey and that, say, he wouldn't be fine with downsizing to a "more affordable" place if she would accept that. To me that's the difference between greed / entitlement and simply differing abilities / priorities.

[@linabella1218]

I think that Stacy had other expectations from Izzy since the pods.He was the “popular” of the season at first,three of the girls were after him.Then when Stacy saw him for the first time,he looks like a very secure strong guy but then she started to spend time with him and she realised that he is much more different than what she thought of him.For example her frustration with their sex.She said “from a guy like you I expected more”.Later she found out that he is not in a perfect financial situation so I think that from the start Izzy gives other type of vibes and that’s why she was confused sometimes.

[@mp_eb]

"The PROVIDER 🙄" Had me laughing so hard. 😂 Thank you Dr. Honda for making these videos! You are so funny and emphatetic and knowledgeable. ❤ LIB reactions are my faves. I'm actually behind on watching the actual show but I can't keep myself away from your reaction videos, so I'm slowly catching up on the actual show. 😅 Thank you, thank you, thank you!! 🙏 P.S. A bunch of ex-workmates once offered me a glass of wine in a pub and I said no thanks but they were pushy with it and I ended up having a half a glass. When the bill came, they tried to make me pay for like a half a bottle. 🤦🏼‍♀️ I don't have a habit of offering someone something and then later forcing them pay for it but that taught me some ppl do do that! Ugh. 🙄 I would feel the same way about bottle service and would need that policy as well! 😄

[@mp_eb]

@@sysanlots Thanks 😊 I think I ended paying some equivalent sum, like what you'd pay for a glass but I'm sure I wouldn't have been bullied to paying for something I didn't even want in the first place! It was a long time ago but the bottle service mention brought that back to my mind. 😅

[@itsleenbean]

I think it’s more common than you realize for married couples to have separate bank accounts

[@jakestroll6518]

Doc is gen X. I doubt there are millennials or Gen Z who are foolish enough to co-mingle funds in this divorce prone environment. If it’s a dual income home, you’ll have a household account but otherwise everyone keeps their own money.

[@erindouglas01]

This is what I keep thinking. My issue is assuming they keep money separate, she wants him to pay half of her bills and for all of her fun extras like eating out and “flying first class”.. which is unfair imo even if he can financially take that on.

[@itsleenbean]

@@erindouglas01 I don’t think that’s what she meant. Also, I was only talking about how he was speaking under the assumption that couples, by default, combine finances, as if keeping separate accounts isn’t common. I just thought it was strange that he couldn’t seem to get that many couples keep separate finances

[@Alayhoo]

It is becoming more and more common these days. According to a Bankrate survey from February 2023, 43% of Gen Z and 31% of millennials say they prefer to keep all of their accounts separate. That's compared to 19% of Gen X and 18% of baby boomers.

[@helloleesh]

“This Stacy… Ofizzy.” Unintentional handmaid’s tale reference.

[@darcymusicpy4274]

How can Izzy promise he'll be able to afford anything she'd want in the future? 😂

[@5by5truckingbusiness41]

Steve Harvey had a good advice when it comes to finances, he said that couples should have 4 bank accounts, 1 for to pay for all the bills, mortgage, utilities, vacations, etc., both of you have access to this account, 2 for the couples savings accounts, both of you have access in this account, 3 for the woman's bank account, she will be the only one who have access to it and she could do whatever she wants on that money and, 4 the man's bank account, he will be the only one who have access to it and he could do whatever he wants. This makes a lot of sense.

[@MJ31579]

Got frustrated at this conversation and how the viewers responded. Izzy has a perfectly fine place, but she wont lower herself to that, but she wants Izzy to magically be able to pay what only 45 year olds or her dad can handle. She could either lower her financial expectations to his, or atleast partially. Or pay her own stuff that he cant afford or in the pods she should've straight up paired with someone with alot of money.

[@Solotv84]

But she wont, I know tons of women like stacy and their still single, they may mess with a broke guy for casual flings and hooks ups but they are holding out for a rich guy to wife them up

[@safestart6252]

yes exactly thank u!!

[@applepie3276]

Izzy’s place was a rented Airbnb

[@hashtagmate]

⁠@@Solotv84either you are misogynist or the USA is truly a crazy place stuck in the 1950s

[@Solotv84]

@@hashtagmate How am I misogynist for saying Stacy doesn't want to deal with a broke dude? do you even know what a misogynist is?

[@meredithadams9468]

This is such a good discussion topic - thanks for having a great forum for it! Also.. all of us are bracing ourselves for you to see Stacy’s family

[@carawestgate]

My husband also pays from our joint account. We like pretending we are on a date again. It helps to replay how we fell in love.

[@sintara8442]

Aww thats really cute 🥰

[@mkaverage4773]

She said her grandpa was poor but her dad has always been wealthy. Her father also says later on that if Stacey cannot find a partner to pay for her lifestyle then the responsibility lands on him. So he is paying for her to do all she does & always has. Which is great. Idc, if my dad had money to pay for my life I’d take it! But she seems to be trying to hide the fact that she relies on her dad & that without a husband her dad is paying for her life… so that is why the husband is expected to take over. I also think it is smart to protect yourself! People are married for years & then find out their partners are gambling their money away or spending it on one night stands or their secret second family! Stacey deserves to protect herself & her families money from people with bad motives. But she still seems out of touch & spoiled. I would also guess that she is ashamed that her dad pays for the majority of her life, otherwise she’d probably be more open about it & maybe wouldn’t be so judgmental about people who have less than.

[@testing1-2three]

She brings up money and immediately his tears come up a well. 😂

[@Solotv84]

The math ain't mathing and Izzy know that

[@majob2363]

The look on his face says it all 😂😂😂

[@brittcoffee913]

My husband and I have separate and joint bank accounts as well as separate and joint credit cards. We transfer $$ into the joint account whenever it is low and use it to pay for all shared expenses (mortgage, groceries, etc.) Works great for us! And we generally use the joint cards to pay for dinner! 😊 Unless one of us is treating.

[@harrylederman1679]

Izzy is upset about money because he doesn't even have a credit card or decent credit and this is going to make him feel unworthy particularly that he does not open up about it and tries to hide it

[@pinsandneedles3]

It's interesting to me that you are slightly confused about separate bank accounts for married couples. Is that a norm in the US? I feel like in Finland, where I live, a sizable portion of married couples have a shared bank account for bills and big purchases as well as separate, personal bank accounts. I don't think it's a big deal generally if people combine finances fully but as a social worker I do have to say that keeping a separate account can help you leave in an abusive situation.

[@honeybadger811]

💯

[@eriskalli]

As a condition of reconciling with an abuser, i had to forfeit my atm # and all of my passwords. Never again. As long as bills are paid, what i have and don't or where it is and don't is not up for discussion with anyone.

[@pinsandneedles3]

​@@eriskalli I'm so sorry you were put through that. I hope you have found healing. Having that boundary going forward is very smart!!

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Most ppl I knew had shared accounts but they also seem to come from lower income families. Wasn't enough to really separate.

[@BiancaB29]

Omg I was like Stacy before I started therapy. The way she says things totally sound like she comes from a family with loads of money and daddy paid it all. So she expects her man to continue to spoil her as much as she wants without spending her money. Let me tell you, it doesn't work like that. Your husband is not an extension of your father.

[@catcoffee7958]

If her father provided for her mum,, why not her,, she should date at her financial level...

[@onedirectionlover317]

Fairness is a thing

[@farahchukair8441]

Are you saying, I need therapy tooo!!😂

[@DaylaS]

I bet her father helped her buy the house. It looks like she teaches exercise classes at a gym. I can't imagine she makes that much money unless she owns the gym.

[@taishahw1696]

​@@DaylaSActually Stacey has three jobs. Head of Operations at Petromar in Houston. She runs her own Personal Stylist Business. And teaches Exercise Classes. She actually did make enough money to buy her own home. Which is why her father was so proud to tell everyone, especially because he knows everyone assumes he bought it... 🤷‍♀️

[@saqua608]

i can't wait for his reaction to the credit score thing

[@durian_moon]

the bottle service story 😭😭 dr. kirk is so endearing

[@ninaballerina3367]

I always follow people around, especially in stores. I remember going out with some friends in my teens (I was like 16), and as we entered the clothing store I was just following my friend around like a shadow. She was like ''you can go look on your own, stop following me lol'' and I felt so awkward, because I was taught by my mom to just not touch anything and follow her around and not get lost. I still struggle with it to this day. During dates/dating, I panic when I have to lead them anywhere and he makes me go up front. And I feel a bit anxious when going shopping. Getting better at it though! But sometimes I still get this weird fog in my mind and get lost in a supermarket because I have no idea what I'm supposed to be doing there, it's so embarrassing 😂

[@Seren3ti]

I suggest seeing a therapist, this could really help, what you have mentioned leans towards codependence and enmeshment. It was hard to see the 'you' in your statements as there didn't seem to be one, without you following someone else's lead. This will show up in other areas of your life too. Just my two cents take what serves and leave the rest. Perhaps Dr Kirk H has a spot if he works online.

[@ninaballerina3367]

@@Seren3ti I've been to therapy/forced hospitalization off and on since I was 12 until around 21. You're spot on with everything you've said about me which is amazing with so little context. My mom took control over my life when I was younger because of severe ongoing trauma during that time and before that. The only way I know how to live is to follow someone I trust, I don't trust myself at all to keep myself safe. I think I just struggle with severe PTSD, and last year I tried therapy again (sadly Dr Kirk had no free spots, I'd take a leap of faith with him as my therapist in a heartbeat) but the therapist that worked with me made me even worse. I'd leave the session completely dissociated and reliving the traumas for days with no way to cope. I will definitely try again when things are a bit more stable for me again. It's just hard to start again when I feel like such a hopeless case and after that last experience, I have no idea where to start. I just keep that bin closed again for now and scoop up the pieces of garbage that overflow sometimes the best I can. Thanks for taking the time to type down your thoughts! Sorry for rambling, I think I have the same ramblebug as Kirk does haha

[@33afterM]

I'm similar. Background info on me - I'm a guy, I've got adhd/autism, and not much money - those contribute to the way I act... like I'll follow whoever I'm with around cause I don't have any real interests in purchasing stuff or looking at anything. I like spending time with someone, so I like to tag along with others. But when I specifically go out shopping for myself I don't want anyone with me because it's a huge distraction and I get worried about how long i'm taking and such. I get the head fog as well if they are tagging along with me, it's so out of the ordinary and it's just not something I'm practiced doing. Just having the other person with me gives my brain too much to think about and I can't focus on what I'm doing. I actually get a little disoriented and can't remember things.

[@APerson-qw8yy]

Bruh at the first sentence I thought you were following random people around lol 😅

[@reflectsonlife]

Stacey: Do you contribute to your 401k? Izzy: Restless Leg Syndrome, Activate! In the words of Succession, Izzy is not a serious person. Imo he should split or pay for dining out and split ordinary household expenses, but not pay into capital expenses like HVAC. His name isn't on the title of that house. In case of divorce, if he contributes to the value of the home (via capital improvements), Stacy could risk him fighting for a portion of the home's equity.

[@honeybadger811]

💯

[@andedom]

Great legal/financial perspective on this situation. “Capital Expense” 😂👏🏾

[@Mother_of_muffins]

The HVAC thing really got me. She was like "so I know you'll be paying for my food and vacations but how much will you be contributing towards my equity?"

[@Alicewunderimland]

Stacy her father said it really good “love is blind until the next credit card bill comes”… Izzy sold himself in the pods as something he is not. Hiding is also a lie. Somehow I understand her, she is telling him like “well we will live in our home so I provide a home to you, so at least you can pay our dinners when we go outside so I have also a win from this marriage”…

[@catcoffee7958]

True

[@onedirectionlover317]

But if he’s gonna pay for his stay then she’s not doing him a favor (also, she’d be his wife!), and she’s basically a landlord (if he doesn’t own the home). So she keeps her money and they go 50-50 when it suits her or he pays for both of them, but she doesn’t pay for him for anything?

[@Alicewunderimland]

@@onedirectionlover317she asked him questions. Do you invest in renovation? If we go out for dinner do you invite me as your wife? She tests him and ask questions and look how he is reacting. And after he answers she tells him what she is used to and what she wish for. Inviting your wife for having dinner outside from home when she cooks for me as her husband it’s for me a normal thing. It’s an exchange. Give and take. As a thank you for cooking on a daily basis… as he doesn’t cooked for her once even he said he will in the pods 🤦🏻‍♀️🤣 does his actions matches his words 🥲😫

[@taishahw1696]

​@@onedirectionlover317 He can pay her for half of the cost of the home, if he wants his name in the deed for the house. 🤷‍♀️ It's just that simple. And she said she's used to men who would ask to buy or already have their own home too. But him paying utilities in a home that she already owns outright, does not entitle him to much. So yes, a few dinners would be an effort towards an equitable arrangement.

[@AddlesH]

I understand her. Idk how she built her financial wellness but either way, you do not want one man to suck you dry or something that took you a decade plus to build

[@Sough]

All rich people: we work sooo hard for our moneyyyy. Like once my grandpa had a financial problem, so yeaa

[@YukonAML]

My partner and I keep separate accounts with one joint account for mortgage/bills. We take turns paying for dates.

[@Daijxo]

To me that’s the most logical thing.

[@Seren3ti]

I think Stacy has every right to state her expectations, needs and wants and it's for Izzy to use his voice to say what he feels doesn't fit within his remit of beliefs, values, and capacity. I think her explaining some of her back story is giving context. I think she comes from a background where historically her family has struggled financially and she and her family work hard to ensure that doesn't happen again. They are in a position of privilege and enjoy some of the finer things and she clearly expects her partner to be on the same page. This is important to communicate. Good for her, I just wish she had the convo in the pods. And I suspect Izzy isn't saying much because he wants her to marry him, then at the back end won't go along with any of it, or will come up short, I don't think he is worried because it isn't a priority for him, and this is where differing values become a problem.

[@nafisa2970]

If these expectations for "the finer things" were such a non-negotiable for her, why would she go on Love Is Blind? That's what confuses me about Stacey

[@Yasmin-pi5pr]

well put.. yes, should have been a pod conversation..

[@miam1074]

quite the opposite. she is from a very wealthy family and she used to having her first class tickets and holidays paid by daddy

[@mkaverage4773]

Her grandpa was poor at one point but her dad has always been wealthy, she said that herself. Now her dad pays for everything that her partner doesn't. Her father said himself if Staceys partner can't fund her life the responsibility falls on him. She also works for her father under some title that is essentially a secretary, which is fine, but she is paid much more than a secretary because it's her dad's money. She can have any expectations she wants, but she needs to be honest about where she is getting her money. Rather than shaming people because she is, "self made." She isn't she has hobbies for jobs & her dad pays for the rest.

[@miam1074]

@@mkaverage4773 her dad was responsible for her and she’s looking for a man who will take over that responsibility. It is sad when daughters don’t step out and take over that job. They never really grow up!

[@majob2363]

He can’t afford her😂😂😂 it’s that simple

[@MJ31579]

It is possible to keep separate finances. Like make a shared budget, decide who pays which bill. All extra money is discretionary. Also makes gift buying more special. And it gives a little sense of autonomy in the discretionary spending. Reduces arguments.

[@nope7560]

HVAC costs don’t have to be $20k cash. Systems can be repaired for a few hundred dollars. 😅

[@ExtraordinaryMachine333]

Usually, but older systems that run on the discontinued freon have to be completely replaced. Somehow I doubt that she'd have old systems though, so common!

[@APerson-qw8yy]

She probably needs it completely replaced and costs are typically regional

[@SoobySays]

In Houston, depending on where you live, the houses are big and old and the heat is intense. AC is an extremely common large household expense there.

[@nope7560]

I live in Los Angeles, so I feel that. Just saying, things can generally be repaired. Unless it's super old, of course. Then perhaps not. @@SoobySays

[@sarahyarmuth267]

it’s fascinating how much it differs in couples and how they decide to combine/not combine their finances. my father in law and his partner keep very separate finances, down to the point where they have spreadsheets and a tracking system to track who spends what, and what it’s spent on 🤪

[@Carmendot2]

25:55 I really appreciated you saying she dominated the conversation. I was having a hard time seeing whether or not this was a healthy approach. But then I saw it from a gender switched position and I felt that most would find that overpowering and so it was nice to hear your opinion 😊

[@sarah_bae]

The only thing I would have to say about the house stuff is that I’m not putting money into a home’s value and improvements if I’m not on the deed. I wouldn’t put money into someone else’s home that would bring up the value that I wouldn’t be apart of in the end.

[@honeybadger811]

💯

[@JasS19362]

Is she planning on paying him back for this potential HVAC cost when she sells the house? At the end of the day: it’s a liability she’s taken on and if she plans on owning it 100% then anything that contributes towards its value should be on her - it’s not a piece of furniture that can be sold and the value split…

[@ritav4022]

Stacy would never ask these questions to a man who has showed her the things she is look for naturally. She is asking because she could already tell what kind of trajectory Izzy was going to take with her financially, so she wanted a confirmation whichever way or to make him know what she was expecting by bringing up the topic. The way she phrased her questions shows that she was set on keeping their finances separate (at least for a while until Izzy proves himself to her, not that he needed to, but it is what she was expecting) because she was sure she makes more money than him. Stacy would not mind combining finances with a man who makes just as much as her or more. I think this is logical and should be respected for both women and men. But what I did not like about this is that Izzy didn't choose her house and the massive expenses that would come with it. Stacy is just used to men being able to say, "no problem at all, honey." She could have been more self-aware in this situation, but we have to remember they were still learning things about each other. I think they come from two worlds that are too different. She needed him to just slot in, which I do not think is wrong either.

[@onedirectionlover317]

I think you hit the nail on the head about one of the biggest thing that bothers me. Separate finances at this stage makes sense, but her demanding and acting entitled to him paying his "fair share" for expenses he had no say in was unfair. If he can't meet those, either they are a bad match or, if she loves him enough, I'd say it's fair for her to continue paying the lion's share since she made the decision about the house unilaterally, she made that decision at a time when she expected to be paying it off entirely herself. I have my standards for my life too, and if a guy's desired standards / spending level are below mine, then I'd conclude we were a bad match, and I might even say "this is the lifestyle I want, and I don't want to downgrade this unless I end up in a situation where I can no longer afford it, and I do want anyone benefitting from this to fairly contribute" (eg. proportional to income), but I'd at least like to think I'd be more sympathetic up-front to the idea that he might not be able to afford that, and frankly depending on how important a particular luxury might be for me, if I loved the guy enough and being with him was important enough for me, I probably wouldn't mind picking up the tab (especially for something like an apartment / house I was already going to live in anyways). It'd be one thing for things where I were incurring an additional expense due to his presence (like groceries), but in this case he had no say in whether he wanted a place that'd require a $20k HVAC repair or whatever, so if he's not demanding / expecting that level of luxury then it feels like a "penalty". And ofc that begs the question, is it fair for a man who makes more than Stacey to want to keep separate finances? How would people react in that scenario? Yeah, preferences are what they are, I just wish she'd been a bit more empathetic to someone being nervous about chipping in for expenses in which they had no say. Idk.

[@zimtapfel]

Here in Germany it’s completely normal to split the bill. Or sometime one person pays, next time the other person pays. These old fashioned views kill me. 😅

[@virginiasoares826]

Glad to see I'm not the only one

[@mariawalsh1345]

Exactly what my husband and I do. He’s Romanian and I’m Irish. Maybe it’s a European thing?

[@damnjessieh_]

@@mariawalsh1345 It most definitly is. But maybe also a working class thing?

[@honeybadger811]

🇪🇺❤

[@sarahk4720]

Thank you! If we both have careers why should the man pay acting like he's the provider when we're both working... we're both providers.

[@stellannie86]

Holy hell, i'd forgotten about this conversation.. I could talk about the topics of finances as a couple and especially relating to different genders, til the end of times. But when it comes to who pays for dates, it's absolutely ridiculous and so 100 years ago, to assume the man (in a hetero relationship) always pays. But what i will say, is that in a dating stage - especially a first date - i think it's nice for one party to pay as a treat. Doesn't have to be the man tho. And when it comes to an actual ongoing relationship, i think the one who makes more money will pay more often. This of course assuming these people have separate finances.

[@onedirectionlover317]

That all makes good sense! I’m a woman, so I guess I benefit from society expecting guys to pay, but do try to be fair. But I’m frugal even for myself, much less someone else, and I don’t drink or eat meat, so if I paid for someone I’d definitely “get the short end of the stick” (especially added up over time) and since I’m frugal for even myself, that’d get to me 😂but for special occasions (like the other’s bday) I’d definitely be down to treat

[@andedom]

Great idea! I think that your post should be the universal standard approach to dating and any variance from that approach should be negotiated between both parties. Stacy’s expectation are so ridiculous: “daddy’s money is my money, your money is my money and my money is my money!” Seems to be her motto and the way she sarcastically and in a superior tone, scoffs when he pushes back was so gross to me as a POC binary male who came from fairly humble beginnings. The entitlement is so problematic…

[@andedom]

@@onedirectionlover317You’re such a cheap date ❤😂! In a good way, lol. Omg with the amount of money I drop on those things, if I didn’t drink alcohol and meat, I’d probably be a multimillionaire by now (and probably live 10+ years longer😂)

[@andedom]

@@4thllz way to start making huge assumptions about someone’s subconscious motivations for no reason… yikes

[@stellannie86]

@@4thllz Insecurities, what? And i didn't even say anything about her :D

[@chaiteeefamileee]

I just find Stacy condescending and judgemental…since the beginning. Izzy I think might come across as confident, but I think he’s anxious about disappointing her or doing/saying something that will make her upset that he just chooses to not say much of anything. It’s just not a good match in my view.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

I never liked Stacy, but I'm not sure I Had a good reason. When was she judgmental that you remember?

[@iceeblaze]

@chaiteeefamileee I completely agree !

[@selenev5101]

Really enjoy these videos and your deep dive into human dynamics and motivations that drive us!! Definitely helps me to be more understanding

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

There have been several hints through their interactions that, not only is Stacy in a different tax bracket than Izzy.. but she has never dated outside/beneath her tax bracket before.. When Izzy says in his confessional that he can give her the same thing as a 45 year old... That doesn't come out of nowhere (IMHO) Stacy seems like she doesn't understand that those 45 year old men she was dating before had to go through their struggle bus days too.. idk Stacy comes off looking really ignorant in this situation (to be clear Izzy has his own problems that aren't making things better, lying by omission about your financial status to your partner who clearly lives a certain way is giving VERY gold digger vibes 👀) This is like the dark mirror episode to Alexis and Brennan. ((Also also why didn't Stacy just... Ask for a prenup?))

[@onedirectionlover317]

But did he lie about his financial status? I don’t remember this. Maybe it just didn’t come up? Or maybe her discussions about her lifestyle didn’t reveal that she expected him to bankroll it so he didn’t think to mention it? I don’t remember him being intentionally duplicitous.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

@@onedirectionlover317 we KNOW that he had these discussions with Johnnie (because of how she shit talks after he dumps her) so.. it's interesting that it's NOT a discussion he had with Stacy 🤷

[@Yasmin-pi5pr]

@@InThisEssayIWill...she said that in the pods, she asked if there was something financially wise she should know, and he said no.

[@Solotv84]

But let's be honest those 45-year-old men see Stacy a mile away, sure they might have a casual fling with her or even date her for a year or so but they will never take Stacy seriously beyond that. She's too high maintenance with little ROI

[@Naejakire3]

I mean she simply doesn't want to marry a poor, lol. She wouldn't want a prenup because her money is actually her dad's money and she expects to marry rich, so I doubt she would want a prenup in that situation either. I think a lot of this comes from her actually not having money and having to live off her dad. Someone ultra wealthy isn't going to worry about the other person paying for everything, not at all. I know ultra wealthy women who don't have to consider their partners income, so the fact that it means soo much to her shows that she is just looking for someone to take her dad's spot.

[@emily76m]

Then girl, fish in your own pond and don’t go on love is blind???? I can’t stand her and the way she gives every word 17 syllables kill me now 😂

[@smellydogpaw]

I probably have some bias, but I am not a big fan of Stacy. I was raised to be humble about what you own and not flaunt wealth. When she brought Izzy to her home she was showing off her fancy cups and it felt materialistic to me. And then when she complains about him not having cups, that felt rude. It’s rude to go into someone’s home and criticize something so small as cups. I think that partners should pay based on what they earn. If Stacy earns more than Izzy, she should be willing to pay a higher percentage of the bills based on what they can afford together and the percentage difference in income.

[@minnikeyangel]

how i interpreted the scene where Stacy is talking about the luxury fancy trips and dinners was that, that is what she likes and wants to do and she wants to be with a partner who is also able to financially do that. the grey area with this is whether that means the partner should be paying for themselves and her (even if they can't afford it in a financially responsible way) or if she would help her partner so that they can BOTH enjoy fancy trips and dinners without money worries. but with how she commented on izzy's response to the 50/50 dinner split, i am leaning more towards the former.

[@BlakeHarper99]

This isn’t a conversation. She has made preconceived ideas and rules to Izzy to live by. She has no openness to anything Izzy has to say, so why not just lay out the rules you’ve made for him rather than pretending to have a “ conversation”

[@mkaverage4773]

I would never expect my new partner, marriage or not, to pay thousands of dollars into the house I own without them. He is essentially paying rent until he is on the mortgage, if they break up the money he would pay into the house would be gone & in her pocket when she sells. I get paying for little things, utilities, rent etc. But $20,000 after less than a year of dating?? Yeah right. I also wouldn't expect a new partner, married or not, to merge finances with me. It is not worth the risk, regardless of how much you love someone. AND when you do merge finances, if you choose to, always keep separate personal accounts so you each have your own money.

[@dazedconfuseds]

If you married a man who had his own house and you then divorced, you can contest to get half off his home, if not all... there is such a thing could common law partners too, who can contest. It's the matrimonial home, so you would be instituted to it. I think you should do some more research cos not emerging accounts isn't the half of it. If your family member leaves you money in a will, your husband will be instituted to it if you get divorced. It's sad but true. This is why prenup is not just for the wealthy!!!!!!

[@thatpenguinlady]

I would also answer "it depends" on who pays dinner. If my husband and I go out to eat, the one with most money in their bank account, at that moment, is the one who pays

[@amyjwenzel88]

Unpopular opinion: I dont think Stacy is being unreasonable, i juat dont think she is delivering what she is trying to say in a good way. I think what she is trying to say: Financial stability is important to me because of family history, i dont want us to rely on my dad, i MAY need renovations on my house and if we are married would you be willing to split them including the most expensive ones (HVAC), ive been taken advantage of before, but i want to feel more feminine and like my husband wont exprct my dad to fix our financial issues. If i was in Izzys situation id be feeling like shit too, i grew up very poor and have issues around overspending because i never had things growing up, but i dont think her intentions are bad. I think shes explaining her boundaries and why its important to her. The provider comment and men should pay for dinner is internalized misogyny and is wrong, but everything else i dont hold it against her to state how she feels.

[@onedirectionlover317]

Everything else is reasonable without the internalized misogyny, but the internalized misogyny casts the "everything else" (especially given the magnitude of expense we're talking about) in a hypocritical and even super demanding light. There's also the issue of her not giving Izzy a choice in these magnitude of expenses (like ofc I'd not expect someone's parent to cover my partner + my expenses, but I'd also never choose to live in a home that required a $20k HVAC improvement cuz I can't afford that). And heck, it's even fine if she doesn't want to downgrade (I don't want to downgrade from my lifestyle), but she frames it as "if you're unwilling to do this, you must just be leeching off of me". Like if he didn't choose this expense, and his own lifestyle doesn't include any comparable expenses, how can he be a leech for not being able to afford to split that? But that's what she seems to be implying. Granted, Izzy should've spoken up more, and he wasn't transparent clearly. In his shoes, I would've been more straight up about "I know I cannot afford a house that expensive with repairs that expensive. I do not presume to leech off of you, but this would be out of my budget" to make it clear that I'm not trying to get a free ride, that I just literally can't afford the lifestyle she wants. But I'd be taken aback by the assumptive way she lays it out (I guess also at how she seems to lead with the assumption that any random partner she matches with on Love is Blind COULD financially responsibly afford that to begin with. I think that makes her seem out-of-touch, unless Izzy explicitly made her believe he did spend that kind of money, which I don't think he did even if he didn't reveal how bad his financial situation truly was). I don't even necessarily assume that my coworkers can afford the things I can even though I know we make more or less the same amount, much less someone who would reasonably be assumed to make less.

[@amyjwenzel88]

@onedirectionlover317 and that's exactly what I mean as she is not delivering it in a good way. She didn't make it sound like a question. She's establishing a boundary on taking advantage of her dad because it's happened before and is trying to get his take on if he would be in it with her. Like I said, she's just delivering it badly. I feel like many things you said are presumptuous of her intentions. Really all we can do is presume, but when she included her backstory as to WHY she's asking him about finances and bringing it up, that gave me context that she doesn't want a repeat of history is all.

[@Ducky190]

Finances are a very necessary conversation to have especially when it comes to marriage. Being honest about it is very important as well and both parties involved should be transparent.

[@harrylederman1679]

Stacey is providing the actual house where they're going to live and Izzy is excited that he's going to be able to put his stuff here and he's already exclaiming what he wants in terms of storage etc so the least he can do given that so much it's already taking care of from the housing perspective financial speaking is pay for the meals

[@MalibuShep]

It sounds like he would be splitting the cost of li at her house and paying half for renovations.

[@amara560]

I think you misunderstood. Stacey wants Izzy to pay half for the housing and improvements ánd fully pay for every dinner.

[@andedom]

“My money is my money, daddy’s money is my money, you’re my new daddy so your money is my money too!” - Stacy 😂

[@shelbylee242]

Expecting someone to go 50/50 on an HVAC they're not on the deed of the home for, and also pay for every single dinner by themselves is wild to me. No way would he ever see any equity from that house, so why is he responsible for that insane amount of repairs??

[@TheSwedishKiwi]

Stacy is NOT a good fit for Love is Blind in my opinion. Sure, she might not care so much about looks (potentially, hard to say seeing as Izzy is a very attractive man), but she cares A LOT about living a fancy and luxurious life. Love is Blind is not the place to find that in my opinion. It should be about finding someone whose personality you love no matter what their other circumstances are like. I mean, if she wants to live a materialistic and privileged life she should be allowed to do it, but then she needs to go look for a man who is after the same thing. It was so clear throughout the season that Izzy was not that person, and I felt so bad for him.

[@JL-gw1qg]

i understand maybe the man paying dinner when they're in the dating phase but at this point engaged / married it's silly to me. its a partnership at that point. she wants him to go 50/50 on the house bills but everytime they go out, he has to pay? it doesn't seem a fair partnership

[@catcoffee7958]

Dating us different,,, beside that how men court women

[@huyenvu3755]

Glad to see that you find it weird Stacy asked the man to pay for dinner even after they get married. So many female youtuber said he's broke for splitting 5050. I was like huh they are married and they're gonna share finance including dining out, why does he still have to pay. That makes no sense

[@diamonument8777]

He says he finds it weird.....yet he does it for his wife. The reason Dr Honda does it for his wife is the same reason that those women want that quality in their husband.

[@Wwumzymumzy]

I think the dinner thing isn’t just about finances. It’s also about how people look at women who pull out their cards at the restaurant. Women who pay for dinner will often pass their card to the man under the table so the staff is unaware. Society judges women harshly for even appearing to be the breadwinner, especially if she’s also older. This isn’t to say that there’s nothing superficial going on here, but it’s also deeper than that.

[@Solotv84]

Welcome to 2023 where women are equal now thanks to feminism but revert to traditional gender roles i.e. paying on dates when it benefits them. I've seen a rise of "Golddigger, sprinkle sprinkle" content the last 6 years, that teaches women how to vet and finesse rich men in all honesty as a guy who is considered rich it's pathetic and laughable cause some of the stingest people I know are rich lmfao

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

​@@Solotv84Some people are manipulative, some aren't.

[@onedirectionlover317]

@@diamonument8777 but their money is combined and it's joint, so in practice it doesn't actually "make a difference". And I just wouldn't expect something from someone that I was unwilling to give.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

I don't like the way Stacy talks about money, but it seems like they're working it out. I'd like to know more about these conversations but I think editors threw this in for the tiny bit of drama you get from this exchange.

[@ashleysmith1369]

I've been married 16 years and have had both combined and split finances. For me and my husband slit works better. We definitely dont nickle and dime things but we decide what bills each of us will be responsible for and because my husband sucks at it, I take are of the household savings. When it comes to dinner, I think its really weird to put both cards down and slip it 50/50. My husband usually pays but I pay sometimes. its either he pays all or I pay all, we dont split.

[@tashaeddy3902]

After growing up poor, it triggers me to watch rich people like Stacy talk. I feel like she has no understanding for people not like herself

[@caroline-ou2st]

What‘s missing on this topic is that if the Woman pays 50/50, the man needs to do 50% of the household ✌️

[@onedirectionlover317]

Yes, but you'd have to know the people involved to know whether they're already living by that. I'm not very domestically-inclined, and I know guys who are much more particular than I am about keeping their spaces tidy. If the way they live currently on their own (/ with roommates) seems acceptable to you, then I don't think there's necessarily a reason to assume they wouldn't contribute at least that much effort when together (or come up with some agreeable split, like cooking vs. cleaning, etc. based on preferences). And Milton and Izzy's places seemed well-maintained enough that I wouldn't assume they wouldn't chip in their fair share of household labor. I agree with your sentiment, I just don't know why there's the assumption that wouldn't be the case, especially based on what we've seen of the guys' apartments / homes.

[@caroline-ou2st]

@@onedirectionlover317 just my personal experience, that a lot of mothers end up doing the housework all alone while also working. I think it‘s just Important to Not forget about that Part when talking about gender roles ✌️

[@caroline-ou2st]

@@onedirectionlover317 that was not on the cast members, just in general because That’s my personal experience, that the Talk is about work in terms of money but not about houselhold stuff which is also work that needs to be done and often expected to do by the women. Not based on the couples, Even though Lydia Did say she doesn‘t like cleaning up after Milton

[@StudioROSADO]

Also men should bleed 3 days a month and carry a baby 4,5 months. Then I'm all in for 50/50

[@cuddlebug1957]

There’s pushback among some sectors of women about being 50/50 financially with a man. Because when you look at the totality of a partnership - emotional labor, housework, pregnancy, labor, childcare - women will end up doing more than 50% total due to gender roles and societal expectations. So to also have the woman pay 50% of the bills is not actually 50/50. Not saying that’s what either of these people are referring to.

[@onedirectionlover317]

I mean, then pick a partner who will take on that burden equitably? Assuming that a man should pay because you assume he’ll fall through on responsibilities doesn’t seem to be a good foundation for a happy marriage… Now the childcare thing is different in my mind because that does often biologically require a step back financially, but 1. That’s why you have these discussions, and make sure the guy is eager to step up as a parent or as the provider (maybe both), and 2. Also what if the guy loses his job or gets a disability, etc. and is unable to earn? And the distinction is only really important if finances are partly / fully separate, really. If they’re joined, the important thing is how much the greater earning partner makes the less earning partner feel valued vs at their mercy money-wise.

[@testing1-2three]

Women sell themselves short and wonder why they’re worn out when doing 50/50.

[@sarahk4720]

I feel the opposite. I always prefer 50/50 because a man who insists on paying may want a more traditional partner who will do the household tasks. It sounds nice to be "provided for" but comes at the price of being in a submissive role where I'm his maid... so yeah I'll pay for my own sandwich.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

All things to discuss with a partner.

[@GreenGorgeousness]

​@@onedirectionlover317if you look at statistics women still end up doing the bulk of the housekeeping even if they earn the same or more. That's one of the sticking points that has not changed no matter how progressive a family thinks they are. There is an essay called "she left me because I didn't do the dishes" that's an inflammatory title because it's way more than that, but it gives a good round up of what's going on at large.

[@PantherGurl86]

I am confused with her conflicting statements of her and her dad being taken advantage of. She says that she dates older men that have money so they wouldn’t need her money. That was confusing to me. If money was that important to her, she should’ve talked about it in the pods. Johnie and Izzy had that conversation, b/c she knew his credit score, so he wasn’t opposed to it. Furthermore, I wouldn’t pay for a $20k hvac without my name on the deed. That adds to the value of the house.

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

She said that whenever she asked Izzy he said they had nothing to worry about. Then dropped his 100% commission based job and bad credit towards the end. I agree on not paying for the HVAC before being on the deed the problem is Izzy might not be able to qualify due to his credit and job. So it might be a process. The fact he isn’t asking more questions is concerning. I’d want to know her mortgage payments or monthly spend and be super upfront about what I can contribute.

[@cjgroom109]

ofc i think it’s fine for women to look/ask for what they want (ex: a male partner who will always pay for dinner), but to act like it is law / an outright expectation / a common understanding is rly unfair and stunts our progress working against sexism. When women talk about it in this way that makes traditional gender roles seem like the only right answer, it also reinforces all the other gender roles that negatively affect women. If you want a man who pays for dinner, that’s fine but pls don’t go around communicating this message that it’s what all women want/need/expect.

[@cjgroom109]

Dr Honda phrased this so much better lol

[@onedirectionlover317]

AMEN TO THIS! I think it's unfair to have as a universal expectation and a litmus test for "this is how a proper datable man should be". If I wouldn't want to pay for someone's dinner, why should I EXPECT that they do so? (Caveat for if someone plans on being a stay-at-home spouse / parent and they know that the person they're dating is also looking for that, because then it's fair to ensure the other person won't be resentful about fully supporting you financially, but otherwise it seems an unfair expectation at least from the get-go, and depending on your future financial / career / life goals as well). I hate hypocrisy with a passion so I try to live by "if I wouldn't do this for someone, I won't expect them to do this for me (unless there's a LEGITIMATELY good logistical reason, like 'I can't do xyz for someone cuz I don't know how to repair appliances' or whatever).

[@aimeeyork6319]

Wait .... What?! So, Stacy wants him to pony up half of the house expenses even though it's in her name? But since she's the girl, she's reverting back to standards of behavior from decades ago? She can't have it both ways lol.

[@laurap9050]

I want my husband to pay dinner. I dont care if it’s his card or mine, his money, mine or ours, whatever, I want him to ask for the check & get it over with. Anyone else? It’s not the money, it’s the act. Please tell me i’m not alone 😂

[@onedirectionlover317]

Okay that’s valid 😂 I know what you mean - I’ve never combined finances with anyone but a tiny part of me knows what you’re talking about even when I Venmo the person back lmaooo. It might be irrational, but as long as it’s not about the money, I think it’s fair and valid lmaooo

[@pabloescobarschanclas]

you’re not alone, i feel the same lol.

[@CaulkMongler]

What would you say is the wifely counterpart to “I’ve got the bill babe”? Jw

[@TheJadeCat]

You’re not alone, but I’m not in that camp. 😂 I have been married for 18 years, and generally my husband pays the bill- from our joint account, and it’s no big deal. However there are times I grab it, and he grins and asks if I’m paying (again, from out joint account). He gets a kick out of his wife treating him. But, we’re unconventional in a lot of ways.

[@CaulkMongler]

@@4thllz seems like you’re putting words in her mouth, I definitely didn’t read all that context from the original comment.

[@guitargirl313]

Stacy saying she wants to be loved as if she had nothing...yet she expects the other person to shower her with stuff bought with money...i feel like she misses the point of that statement. I would think that if you had nothing you would want the other person to see and love the real you as a human being and show love through affection, care, kindness, passion, empathy etc.

[@Reese842]

So I've had to retire much younger than my peers due to health reasons and my income is static ... the same each month. This has been a source of discomfort when connecting with potential dating partners. In my situation, obviously the woman will earn more than me even though I pay my bills, but more than that I get a lot of judgment. It's always a source of anxiety when the work question comes up.

[@onedirectionlover317]

I'm so sorry to hear that :( Sounds like it was out of your control, and you're doing what you can, and I can't believe anyone would judge you for that. I hope that you're able to overcome that in your dating life and find someone who understands and can value what you do bring to the table.

[@katy.hidalgo]

'of Izzy' and 'of Kirk' was very handmaid's tale lol

[@michellev2630]

i feel like Stacey needs to chose: is it money or is it love.. She needs to marry a wealthy guy, because, that's the only way men can pay for what she wants. But as Kirk says, that comes at a price, usually.. She does not seem like the type to settle about that..

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

I don't think Stacy came into this planning to get married and now she has to reconsider her concepts of a relationship.

[@whtyc]

I think automatically combining finances is less common now. It’s still the majority, but less so. Some people have a common account for the family but retain individual accounts and investments

[@Youokhun]

Genuine question but does anyone add up both of your salary i.e. you earn 40k they earn 60k so together at 100% is 100k and then split everything accordingly? Like one pays 40% of a big expense and the other pays 60%? I’m thinking of suggesting this method but interested to hear what others think

[@caroline-ou2st]

I heard Most couples do that through putting a big percentage of the money in a shared bank account for all the Bills etc. The Rest of the income goes to seperate accounts. Putting Everything in one could propably cause arguments when there Are different spending habbits

[@digthewarmth]

Why is Dr. Honda confused that Stacy wants separate bank accounts in her marriage? Married couples do this all the time. Some have a shared account for bills and then separate accounts for leisure, and food can be a part of leisure. Why is he so confused??

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Yeah. It's fine if that's their preference.

[@kalabryant400]

A totally different perspective on the door holding! As single 20 something professional who is independent and assertive (and walks very fast lol) I find I am usually the one walking in the door first and then I end up being the one to talk to the hostess/service person of wherever we are going and sometimes that gets old for me. I would like to like to fall back sometimes and so when a guy I’m dating let’s me follow him inside and is leading the way, I really like that.

[@miam1074]

she is looking for a sugar daddy who will look after all of her fancy needs just like her daddy did. she wants the first class tickets, the holidays the fancy shopping, and at the same time she wants the romance, the rose petals, the poetry, the cooked dinners, the surprises. she wants to be somebody's child who will look after her needs in every sense. at the same time she does not want the responsibilities of being a grown woman who runs a household. she is a feminist who wants a sugar daddy.

[@Solotv84]

A feminist who wants a sugar daddy you can’t make this up 😂😢😅

[@elizabethallen4353]

Money is a a big reason not to get married after knowing someone only six weeks. Seems kind of obvious. 🤷‍♀

[@chocolatecat198]

I cannot wait to hear Dr Honda’s reaction to “sometimes love wants to fly first class” 🙄

[@taishahw1696]

Stacey has three jobs. Head of Operations at Petromar. Founder of The Closet Audit and The Face Audit, where she acts as a personal stylist. Additionally, she teaches Pilates at Method Pilates in Houston. And she owns her her home. She is definitely not expecting Izzy to pay for "everything." Asking him to pay for dinner shouldn't have been such a sticking point, considering how little he is bringing to the table financially 👀 And her home is brand new. The HVAC will not need replacement any time soon. Anyone who owns a home knows she was providing a worse case scenario. They could simply need a new washing machine next year or a plumber next month. You just never know with a home. 🤷‍♀️ And she wants a partner who can help. Who doesn't want that?

[@honeybadger811]

I'd imagine that home is in her name though. Paying half of the mortgage and bills and for half of the stuff they do should be sufficient. Feminism anyone?

[@bluebeeren]

So, her main job is working for daddy... I wonder if her salary is in line with the market. My guess is no.

[@marleyofficialmedia]

💯

[@caroline-ou2st]

Well if she buys the home, the question who takes care of the bills answers itself. I agree, it‘s totally ok to want that, but she can‘t ask for it like it‘s normal in my opinion

[@onedirectionlover317]

Also it’s pretty privileged to own a home before being married imo, and also after marriage financial decisions should be joint. Izzy isn’t demanding the fancy home, she is. If he’d be okay with downsizing so that he could contribute a “fairer share”, but she wouldn’t, then their lifestyles might be incompatible. I wouldn’t expect a guy to bankroll me unless we both agreed I’d be a stay at home wife / mom (and I don’t want that for myself so it’s a moot point, but acknowledge that in that case it’d make perfect sense to go in expecting a man to be willing to pay for you), but I’d also balk at a guy saying “I have this expensive ass home that I bought without taking you into consideration, I don’t care what your financial situation is and if you’d prefer to downsize to something you could afford, but also you have to pay 50-50 or even a proportional amount of your income for this expense in which you had zero say”, then I’d run for the hills too. And it wouldn’t be fair to expect I should have a different response if I were a guy. Heck, I might not even want to settle down there long-term! Also, her reasoning of “the men always pay” and “men never asked me to pay” is what I view as flawed, entitled, and unfair, rather than “I’m bringing xyz to the table financially and want my partner to also contribute and not freeload” (and that part of her spiel I did see as valid, but the way she seemed to frame it seemed to be “50-50 in the expenses I’m incurring because of MY lifestyle choices but you pay for me in dinner”. Is she gonna pay for a greater share of anything? I didn’t hear any indication of that.

[@jealvarado68]

I completely disagree. I don't even like Stacy, but I agree with her regarding getting the question about finances, and who has what, on the table, before any marriage. Plus, I do think that her instincts regarding Izzy, correct he does seem like someone who is not where he should be on his career path. And being concerned about someone sponging off of you, whether you have money or not, as a woman, with the unfortunately, many men who are out there willing to do, so it's not an unfounded concern Worrying about someone sponging off of you, whether you have money or not, as a woman, with the unfortunately, many men who are out there willing to do, so, is not an unfounded concern. Plus lifestyles matter. If she likes fancy things she should be with someone who is similar to her in that way. I don't like fancy things and was married to someone who liked a lot of fancy things, and it was a big issue in our marriage because it was really about our different values and lifestyles we wanted to have.

[@TheAcrobatic_PA]

And Dr. Honda was never invited to Vegas again.... LOL jk. So happy you finally reacted to this! Can't wait for you to watch the rest!

[@mombear5116]

I would be much more turned on by a man who could FIX ANYTHING in my home, and teach skills to my son and me. And I would thoroughly enjoy making a delicious dinner at home - better than restaurant food. I am mostly disappointed with restaurant food and only like eating out when I am otherwise exhausted or it is a very special experience or time spent with great company who I don't see everyday.

[@Christine-lt9ok]

I would never ever expect a man to pay for me. I almost always go dutch on dates, or if we go to multiple places we take turns

[@shannen22able]

Joint acc, joint savings acc, seperate acc, seperate savings acc. Seperate credit cards.

[@MayB193]

No pressure, Izzy! 😂😂😂😂😂😂

[@RLC-tr1wn]

oh boy , now the hate for her is going to start and I worried about that since the family episode. She is not a villain in my book, there are worse situations during this season and way darker than Izzy and Stacey, way less than the diabolical calculated BS from Lydia is way worse than this. I rather someone drilled me about money than lie to me about their exes, just my opinion. She is just expressing herself the only way she knows ( growing u with that family thou) you may like it or not but at least she is being honest, and we know this season has a lot of disonesty. SO in the big picture, I don't think she is so bad.

[@dazedconfuseds]

I think the hate comes from broke people. If Izzy was from a wealthy family and Stacy was broke, I'm sure he would be a bit cautious...

[@onedirectionlover317]

I don't know if we're necessarily seeing "hate", but I think it's fair for women who are more equal-minded (or yes, even poorer people) to be put off by the thinking behind her preferences and the gendered lens in which she frames things ("The man always pays" as a statement of universal fact, "I've never had a man ask me to pay" as if that makes it unreasonable for someone to consider 50-50 or "proportional to income" as fair just b/c he's a man). And just because there are worse situations doesn't mean people can't be put off by both. In some ways, this might be "worse" because it's more realistic and relatable. People might not have dealt with diabolical people like Lydia, but unless you luck out with perfect financial compatibility with a partner, money is likely to be a concern, both individually and within relationships. Aren't finances cited as one of the primary causes of strife in relationships / marriages? And these things affect everyone's day-to-day lives, while the other drama may not.

[@mombear5116]

If you cannot afford whatever it is, $10K cash for HVAC, fancy dinners, lavish vacations, then you can't. These people are way too young to be putting themselves in debt to live a lifestyle they cannot personally afford, imo. Dating aside, if I can't afford it then I'm not doing it unless someone is offering to cover me. If I know someone else can't afford something, and I can, and I want to enjoy their company, I'll pay their way to make it happen for all of us. I have friends and family who are the same. We make the experiences happen that need to happen in our lives, while also respecting one another's sense of security and financial survival in the real world. It is seldom an exact exchange, sometimes NO exchange, many times the generosity is a karmic pay-it-forward to someone totally unrelated. These days, for me, it is about the company, the occasion, the time, the joy of the experience. (I could never hang with socialites 😂).

[@thewonderfulworldofkatushya950]

I never really believed in the whole, "men have to pay for dinner" shit, even when I went out to dinner with my fiance. I always paid for dinner unless he absolutely wanted to and never expected him to pay.

[@MalibuShep]

Me too and after watching this I feel like I must have really low expectations and self esteem. I’m a career woman and feel awkward expecting anyone to pay my way but maybe if I thought highly of myself…?

[@Kwd123]

I wonder if they had a prenup drawn up. If Izzy is living in that house, even if they’re not married where I live within a couple years he has legal rights to that house. I mean even if they keep separate bank accounts if they’re married or living in common law they have shared property..

[@jamie6639]

Oh I totally missed that part where Stacy's parents were split or divorced when I was watching this episode. I just didn't realize that coz both of her parents were meeting with Izzy. I wonder if her parents' divorce has made Stacy more dependent on her dad and dad being more .. generous with Stacy.. not that I know much about the dynamics between divorced parents and their kids. Just thought it was interesting that they were actually divorced/split.

[@PsychologyInSeattle]

Oh right. I guess I figured they were together, but maybe they were just meeting up together.

[@kristinrodier2217]

This is giving me Elizabeth and Andre vibes. Except Izzy isn’t trying to marry the rebel, he’s trying to marry the queen daughter.

[@onedirectionlover317]

Update (while trying not to spoil): while this conversation specifically got me riled up given that I don't agree with Stacey and don't agree with traditional gendered expectations around money being the "default" in this day and age, their other interactions as a couple really had me rooting for them personally, I thought Izzy was coming from quite a good-hearted place as a partner (even though his drama with others did not make me a fan), and in some of their tenser moments leading up to the wedding, I personally saw a guy who genuinely wanted love, was genuinely willing to give from the heart, and whose suboptimal actions came from a fear of losing someone they wanted rather than malice. Definitely some character flaws he needs to work on, but just goes to show that different people have different mileages for different behaviors and actions, and as a talker and an affectionate person, I could probably deal much better with Izzy's flavor of "fear of abandonment" rather than JP's flavor of it, and despite his problematic behaviors, liked him overall better than JP (and Uche, for that matter). It's funny that in my opinion, all three of them had different flavors of fear of abandonment or betrayal, but they manifested so differently across the spectrum, with JP's being the most silent / closed-off flavor and Uche's being the most confrontational / aggressive, and Izzy somewhere in between. I found Izzy to be quite healthy about communicating some of his emotions and hurt, and those he did communicate he did so quite healthily, but he also clearly avoided some crucial points and issues, seemingly out of fear (although others might think out of desire to manipulate). JP, on the other hand, was completely closed off (until he wasn't, at which point he was vicious and deflected entirely, for the most part, until the very end, when it was too little too late), while Uche did communicate how he felt but also in the process put others down, bulldozed over them and cut them off, etc.

[@Coastpsych_fi99]

It’s so fascinating how differently everyone views people. I found him emotionally manipulative and felt that he was with Stacy for the financial security and family support he could provide. He could barely find words to describe her beyond not easy, difficult or tough nut to crack, he says she makes him feel not good enough, he hasn’t made time to cook/clean/run her a bath when she does those things for him, and he basically has to compromise to fit into her life. If she wasn’t wealthy and financially secure I think Izzy would have left.

[@onedirectionlover317]

To those who say he lied, did he lie about his financial status? I don’t remember this. Maybe it just didn’t come up? Or maybe her discussions about her lifestyle didn’t reveal that she expected him to bankroll it so he didn’t think to mention it? I don’t remember him being intentionally duplicitous. I also don’t understand how someone who’s willing to go 50-50 or even be proportional to income is being “exploitative” or a “leech”. I get being worried about exploitation, but someone who’s willing to pay proportional to income or 50-50 is clearly not expecting “daddy will pay for everything”. ESPECIALLY if he’s not the one insisting on the high end lifestyle. Like woman, if you are the one demanding the $20k HVAC, not him, then why are you accusing him of exploitation even if he paid proportional to his income? I definitely want a guy who wouldn’t make me feel at his mercy if I lost my job and he had to support me (and I’d want to do the same for him), but if I want a certain lifestyle, I’d go into it expecting to bankroll it myself, so it’d be important for me to find someone who has similar lifestyle priorities. It’d probably be hard for me with someone who didn’t value the lifestyle I wanted and things I wanted to enjoy for those reasons, but sure I’d probably also struggle with someone who wanted a significantly fancier lifestyle if he expected me to upgrade and be willing to pay for it. Like I don’t want to pay for myself if I am expected to go to a significantly more expensive restaurant than I’d ever do on my own, but I also wouldn’t demand or even take it for granted that someone would bankroll that for me unless it was important I participate in that.

[@zacharyjohnson1193]

Possible Spoiler: DKH hasn't gotten to it yet, but Izzy withholds financial information that Stacy responds to as a lie and it initiates distrust. Johnie actually references Izzy's poor finances in the pods...so it seems like he was more willing to discuss money with her. But I agree that it's fair to go 50/50