osu!mapping: lazer's hitsounds

[@DeanHerbertMooCow]

thanks for honest feedback! still wip as everything is in lazer. i agree with compatibility with older maps not being perfect. at very least we do plan on having a few default skins bundled with the game, one which will probably be closer to the old acoustic sounds. slider tails looks like a bug tbh

[@epicreplays1595]

Dean Herbert the Dean himself

[@ilya2468]

what about sliderslide though?

[@singletapdude5801]

hopefully lazer will run on my potato xddd

[@LwL_]

I'm not sure how much work this would be to implement, but an option to use old defaults for all samples that aren't provided by the map itself for maps ranked before lazer release would theoretically solve the compatibility issues (disabling custom hitsounds globally would still override this for obvious reasons).

[@DeviousHands]

single thing in the lazer options menu stating "enable legacy hitsounds" boom fixed ur problems

[@hypercyte]

i'd give it a solid i dunno maybe

[@gpng]

I think if they would just keep the osu stable hitsounds on every map made before the official lazer release, that way all the old maps still have the same hitsounds that apply to them, and new ones can be made with according hitsounds.

[@dieblauebedrohung]

my thoughts excactly.

[@shrub_]

to expand on this I'd say it'd be even more beneficial to have a legaacy hitsound option or lazer hitsound option when mapping so maps that don't use custom hitsounds and want that acoustic feel like pishi was saying are forced into custom hitsounding/lazer's punchier hitsounds

[@BigDBrian]

Shrub my suggestion exactly

[@Jungspylie]

"i give them a solid, dunno maybe" lul

[@Qnio]

am i deaf af or are the lazer drums all the same

[@lhgs7289]

that's because the base samples are too fucking loud

[@BigDBrian]

lucas henrique even when the base sample isn't playing you can hardly tell the difference

[@kolja783]

Hitsounds need standardized more than normal, whistle, clap, finish (i.e. drum sampleset names: normal, hi hat, snare, kick or something of that nature) so all mappers are on the same page; also there definitely needs to be more than 1 "default" sampleset. I'm not saying it needs to be crazy with subcategories like sakuraburst default, camellia default, YUC'e default, etc... I'm just saying it needs to cover polar opposites of music like pishifat mentions above...t+pazolite hitsounds don't mix with Frédéric Chopin. It wouldn't be hard to bundle multiple samplesets within the editor you can select before mapping. Just click a button that says "Instrumental," "Electronic" or "Custom." idk just some food for thought for lazer

[@KingHalbatorix]

Doginu nobody would actually map Chopin though Ya'know, timing and all that

[@kolja783]

KingHalbatorix osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/651484#osu/1380674

[@BoxieWoxie]

perhaps having both hitsounds for the default skin would be nice? like an option that reads "use old hitsounds" when the default skin is selected

[@oShinobu]

I appreciate all the effort mappers put into things like this but honestly I will just use different hitsounds anyway. Feedback is (imo) a lot more satisfying and important than the hitsounds fitting the song.

[@Sylvarus]

I used to play only with skin hitsounds but I noticed that with custom hitounds enabled I played the same as before but it sounded better. I believe once you are good enough at reading hitsounds become less important, I used to rely on them to understand some patterns but now I dont need that anymore. Comes down to preference in the end but its a game so I have more fun if it sounds good

[@BigDBrian]

I highly prefer beatmap hitsounds, you miss out on a significantly large part of the experience if you have them off for a lot of maps. And there's always the option to ignore an individual map's hitsounds, which comes in handy when you need feedback but the mapper wanted quiet hitsounds (inferno, 90% of sotarks maps, natsu maps...)

[@KcHecKa]

I literally play with effects 0% None of this matters to me XD XD XD

[@GenuineRage]

KcHecKa id recommend upping effects. It helps with jumps and streams immensely from my experience. I used to also be a no hit sound player

[@lunarleaf]

I was literally binge watching your old videos then I realized it was Sunday, I refreshed and boom a new video... Keep it up dude, I'm pretty sure you upload more often than 3kliksphillip (or all of his channels for that matter) so you're basically my osu replacement of him when he doesn't upload 👌

[@yukariyoshisaki6333]

hanairo biyori is still not linked in the description of the video about score v2 and the 9:00 map in ranking process as well

[@VINXIS]

russian sushi

[@soaptastesalrightiguess7932]

send me your feet

[@АкакийБензолов]

hey musician do big black

[@iLiokardo]

Don't fight! Fighting is bad!

[@bananya6020]

maybe make a new default sampleset set called "old" and clicking it shows more packs of old hitsounds? Then it would be backwards compatible through sounds only

[@tahuonefiveseven7422]

The "whatever those are" are pool balls hitting together iirc.

[@neppy4921]

My hitsounds are somehow on default on any skin. It doesnt even change the hitsound when i change the skin. Any help? (Regular !osu)

[@willowwwowo]

Amazing video as always

[@bunshine]

i think they should have the current defaults as an "old" setting in lazer

[@bunshine]

i love the old default hitsounds what the heck?

[@ChaiKirbs]

The high class stuff is such a great map

[@senreigh1564]

I only tend to disable beatmap hitsounds on a few maps that I find mess up my rhythm but often the custom hitsounds are quite good and add flavor to the map while I am playing them

[@3zachm]

"Hello there!" will never get old

[@domlee7719]

dont mind if i hit that refresh

[@flipflopseeker8407]

How do i get those “clicky tacky” sound at 1:53 ???

[@Aidiakapi]

For me, the problem with custom hitsounds in songs is quite simple. No loudness normalization, and seemingly no quality control on them. The lack of loudness normalization makes it so that custom hitsounds can really be an earrape, whereas in other songs, they'll be inaudible, because mappers have mapped them with different volume settings themselves. With no quality control I'm mostly referring to timing. In a game where timing is everything, and your clicking window is on the order of 10s of ms, having a hitsound that starts its "punch" part at 5ms into the sample, vs one that starts at 15ms, can really throw off the gameplay. Overall, I think osu!lazer should keep the old hitsounds on songs converted from the old format, whilst having a fresh set of new defaults. I think they should also find a way to make that apply to a lot of the changes it makes, like HP drain and slider leniency.

[@Sylvarus]

Hitsounds that have a delay like that are unrankable afaik

[@Aidiakapi]

"Active hit sounds cannot have a delay more than 5 milliseconds." According to the ranking criteria. However, in reality, many of the maps I've played suffered from the issue. Maybe the rule was added later, maybe it was poorly enforced, I don't know. The reality is that enabling custom hit sounds is a gamble you take, I've taken it many times since I used to play with them, but after it ruining the timing, or ear raping me, I just no longer put up with it. Same story with custom beatmap skins, there's a few maps where the custom skin adds value, but in most cases it's either just the mapper's favorite skin, or something truly obnoxious, often worse than the default skin.

[@tengu6941]

Aidiakapi what are some maps you claim to have delayed hitsounds? It shouldn't really be something that could be overlooked since most modding tools can detect hitsound delays iirc

[@Aidiakapi]

I have 52997 beatmaps, so it shouldn't be a surprise that I'm not going through all of them. However, I just searched for *.wav in my songs folder, took a look at 4 songs. The first one looked questionable in Audacity ( osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/94623/ ). It's the soft-slidertick, which isn't an active element, so technically seen rankable. During gameplay, it near some of the worst offenders, but if you derive timing off of slider ticks (which as one of the "always perfectly timed if heard", is generally a good indicator, just like slider ends), it messes you up, and that's noticeable in gameplay. The next two were fine, no problems with them. Then the fourth, a map from 2016 ( osu.ppy.sh/beatmapsets/422369/ ) has 14 custom hit sounds that have significant delays. The minor offenders have about a 10ms delay, but the worst of them go up and over 50ms (though this is a whistle, so probably not used on an active element). The entire hitsounding is a giant mess in terms of feedback, sure, it "complements the song", but it also makes it garbage to play. I played 3 of the 4 insane difficulties with a friend in MP, with and without hitsounds. There's no audio, because the recording derped, but well, take from it what you will, but I think the gimmick really detracts from the playing experience. kzbin.info/www/bejne/oH2QhquvpJdsodE Anyways, that's about an hour invested into this stuff, so I'll leave it at that.

[@D0HERRITT]

I love the default hitsounds and I can't stand the hitsounds used in skins such as the one @ 1:53. That's like the only sound I hear from most of the other skins, too...

[@hockypockies780]

I feel like that hit sounds need to be pretty loud for me to understand, "Hey, I hit a circle and I can keep going!" If I don't hear one but I hit it I get confused. I like lazer because its really nice for louder osu!users.

[@opposite342]

1:06 uh same stuff?

[@Rs1i]

1:32 sound ?

[@vaarka7534]

I think the solution should be pretty easy: Make osu!lazer cater to both types. We already have them separated by soft, normal, and drum. Just make a second drop down for "acoustic" (old hit sounds) and for "electronic" (new hit sounds). This way we could even add other defaults that cater to different audiences or even just give head to interesting hitsounds in the future. This could also hopefully fix the impending problem of converting the default hitsounds of every map made prior to osu!lazer. Also loved the clap sound for lazer.

[@njdotson]

0:14 How do you get that style since it doesn't look like a texture pack (edit I found out nevermind)

[@kaliseine3505]

1:32 whats the name of that hitsound

[@Payne-Train]

Pishi would you ever try mapping a map from the end to the beginning? Basically mapping a whole song backwards? :o

[@chocmilk4985]

1:32 what hit sound is that

[@BigDBrian]

solution: add an option to the editor to swap between the old(maybe call it legacy) defaults and lazer defaults, on a map by map basis.

[@GH-ex4ld]

Have a toggle between acoustic and electronic default hitsounds

[@Yogii0000]

2:48 that map missing from the description?

[@ElMustaccio]

I'm kind of against this, since I prefer the default acoustic sounds, but I already made myself a skin that uses them, so I guess I could just use that for lazer too sucks for the maps that relied on the defaults though

[@JessicaFEREM]

How about an option that has a "legacy", "Lazer", and "skin" option so you can choose which one you want

[@vinniekiro]

Coming from a _"I prefer listening to ping pong balls hitsounds, thank you."_ player, I really enjoyed Lazer's new hitsounds

[@asmylia9880]

Lazers Nacht 100 when?

[@Carl-np2sl]

idk, but this could change the rc by being a bit more lenient on hitsoundings since osu!lazer will start shifting its design towards the player-side of the spectrum. this may make some mappers steer away from creating maps, but on the flip side (if hitsounds DO become a bit more lenient due to this change in osu!lazer) this could give mappers more time to focus on the design of their maps, instead of thinking about how their hitsounds should compliment the song.

[@Vanilla727]

TIL im dumb and i used the "2011" method of silencing sliders for over 2 years now i always knew i was doing something not right but idk what well thanks daddy pishi again

[@misterdinner3648]

The thing is that it seems good hitsounding goes unnoticed for the most part, almost every skin ive come across has the same 4 samples for every category so any hitsounding is just thrown away. This is a pretty grey subject, since hitsounding might get the storyboard treatment from all this, but what is the point if its something that is already tossed to the side for the benefit of the player anyways.

[@Hijackedac]

I really hope that we will be able to stick on the normal osu! cause i really dont feel it.

[@xoshuyt8670]

1:56 what skin is that pls

[@Chatterzard]

Honestly if he started streaming while making maps I would watch probably every stream

[@tianguan]

Your cursor gives me anxiety i swear to god

[@mulraf]

idk i think that invention shouldn't be stopped by 'smaller' effects on the old system. maybe the old maps were built around it but new maps could be built around the new sounds and in general i think the sounds sounded rather outdated which might be a small factor that bothers new players. i know the comparison isn't the best but when pp was introduced i felt similar. i had worked a lot to get a rather good rank in the score based ranking. i got a bit sad when all that effort got lost and i went down lots of ranks. but nowadays i'm very happy that we got something that judges our skill not our playtime. looking back it was an improvement but because i was stuck to the past i didn't want to accept that idea at first.

[@LimeGreenTeknii]

Me in 2008: "I loved You're The Inspiration and Over The Distance's sounds from the original games! I want to see more stuff like this in this new Osu game!" People in 2020: *CLACK CLACK CLACK*

[@anastasiiaermakova1299]

I'm just watching it to enjoy his voice really

[@Zarven1]

Why don't they just give us the new hitsounds in addition to keeping the old ones?

[@mrcool9090]

Here's a question I have. What's your opinion on the Centipede visualization map? Do you think stuff like it should be more wide spread or it should just stay as a single experement

[@ad3z10]

It would be nice if they just left the old ones in alongside the new ones and gave mappers access to both. Would reduce the need for custom hitsounds being added whilst not being an overbearing amount of options.

[@1Kick234]

Couldn't ppy just set it up so every map that was made using the old default hitsounds comes with those hitsounds bundled?

[@KingHalbatorix]

No; that would require skill, finesse, or at least effort. All three of those are things he is incapable of.

[@fuwameanssoft]

Probably been asked before, but do you play with the skin you use to map, or do you have a separate “playing skin”?

[@Jodsen1298]

not related to the video but are you still trying to rank your coming down is calming down map?

[@Lycorine_]

but couldn't they just introduce the lazer hitsounds as new samplesets that also have new names in the .osu files and edit the old ones so there's no delay in the files? that way old maps' hs will remain mostly untouched and mappers could choose which samplesets to use in lazer

[@PerpetualSheep]

I'm hoping for the option for the player, like a clicker thing in the options

[@migijolito8159]

WHAT'S THE NAME OF THE SKIN ON THE second CLIP PLEASE TELL ME

[@ragnarokvii]

You are litterally the only reason i map.

[@88farrel]

Good jobs peppy

[@gmnmd]

I never really noticed lazer hitsounds woh but tbh I haven't played much lazer sooo

[@AkSpazAlot]

how do you get that clicky one all the pros use

[@UniQwer]

god i love lazer

[@mrsparklepants5636]

I don't know why I'm watching this, I turn my hitsounds off

I really don't like default hitsounds as a player, every custom one will do job better and i hope lazer will have full skin support like we have on stable or maybe even more options to customize game

[@QuackerHead-j]

Do another vid on lazer map making please please please pleease.

[@darkdecliner]

thx lazer for the camellia ep remix

[@delusionships]

"Hello there! So, listen to this" hOE, tHAt wAS sTRAight fORwArD

[@nex7402]

I have a question. Is it possible for someone who doesn't play Osu to just hop into mapping? what do you think that person would be missing from someone who played osu before mapping?

[@RynnavinxMusic]

He's kinda talked about this on his "new mappers" video kzbin.info/www/bejne/i5urh6x4f9qXnck

[@nex7402]

Thanks I appreciate the help. I've watched this video before and since my circumstances were different from the ones in the video the concepts flew right over my head. I'm just gonna jump in and see what I can. And practice practice practice

[@opposite342]

No problem for osu!mania since we all use custom hitsound for almost everything :p

[@SF3098]

imo lazer drum hitsounds sound way too similar to each other, unlike the old drum hitsounds which were distinct...

[@Ali-cv5en]

1:31 WHAT IS THIS I ???WANT THIS!!!!

[@Attewir]

Describe them as club hitsounds, bc they sound exactly (and might be directly from) some of the most generic free club-music ..instruments? Like compare to the FL Studio free club sound-pack

[@ChaiKirbs]

I give this video a solid I dunno maybe

[@denoic]

skin?

[@flyingflowers6621]

Clicky clacky... mahjong tiles.

[@MonsieurGilbert]

He's using "Foobar" as his mp3 player

[@Zesteas]

One of the best audio players out there

[@Farre56]

I feel like every video you upload your voice gets just a liiittle bit higher

[@cyootlabs]

I play with effects at 0% because the best hitsounds come from your keyboard HEH

[@sublime_tv]

I don't find the "old" osu hitsounds bad at all and give good feedback. Sounds like a personal problem. The new sounds sound good as well.

[@_fluffyy1028]

cool!

[@thorway9837]

whats up gamers

[@lemon-wd6ml]

lmao that helped me in skinning

[@JennyDarukat]

They all sound so samey man.. just add a Lazer checkbox in the sampleset selection on inherits like we have now with customs, and another one to gameplay options if people really want it. That said I think the audience for this change will always use custom and more minimalist skins and we're better off focusing on the new player experience. Better do your own thing than try and compete for an audience that's already served.

[@Alastair.]

i use the lazer sounds in my skin

[@vaxeinated]

turn effect off

[@TheVastoLordes]

I don't use any hitsounds. I hate them all

[@vbaku9766]

I dunno maybe isn't very solid

[@randomperson20]

I give it a *i dunno maybe / 10*

[@Z2r]

hey, you're the tutorial guy, right?

[@kagez6515]

rating scale [pishifat ver] 1 2 4 7 I dunno maybe 10 9

[@bananya6020]

i hate osu lazer skin tbh, i think ppy should let us change positions of lots of elements, like to be able to imitate old skins. Really hyped about the new other features tho ;)

[@Flamenc0]

I feel like you're making these to educate ppy rather than us xd

[@ravi_sd791]

Bro I hate the original whistle sound

[@woobyy]

i dunno maybe/10

[@omiethehomie]

Lul ping pong hit sounds best

[@D3CD95]

Hey pishi, can you try to talk about "What realy is difficulty" in an osu! map doing a parallel with "What is the most difficult piece of music"? . The youtuber Adam Neely did a great video about it (kzbin.info/www/bejne/f5KvqKWCh9WNZ9k). It might be interresting to see the implicit bounds between music and mapping...

[@ー緑茶ー]

Hey... I'm actually early!

[@daishin8492]

hahahahahahahahahaha i just use my skins sound samples ._.

[@BigDBrian]

I actually think mappers shouldn't rely on default hitsounds for stuff like the pitched drum hits. Because let's face it... nobody uses default hitsounds over skin hitsounds, maybe 1% of the playerbase above starter level. Use custom samples please

[@drezi202]

I just don't get the "complement the song" part at all though. The songs are fine as they are and they don't really need mappers to complement them with generic claps and whistles and whatnot. Arranging the notes creatively so that the map plays well and fits the music at the same time is the essence of mapping imo, trying to mod the music awell with an abysmal repertoire of sound additions is just meh. I prefer to leave the music as the original artist created it, and let hitsounds be a reverse-metronome-like feedback.