The Great February Debate feat. Flats, Freedo & Samito

[@GroupUp]

This episode was recorded on 17/02/23. Podcast links below! If you're enjoying this content, why not check out SVB's stream (www.twitch.tv/svb_) or other entertainment content from SVB on his second KZbin channel the SVB-Side: www.youtube.com/@SVB-Side The best way to support my content is still www.patreon.com/svb Soundcloud: soundcloud.com/ow_svb/the-great-february-debate Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/6sRWutKTc0gnWuguo62Vpa Apple Podcasts: podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/svbs-group-up/id1490256265

[@kelseycox8632]

Hi SVB, I was hoping to ask or more or less convince a podcast for a great mercy debate since mercy has really gone through a lot of changes lately. Would this be possible to do?

[@crysplaying5281]

Next time you have some devs on please i would love to know a few questions! 1.what is the statistical power of blizzards anti-cheat? (how often does it catch/ probability of catching a real cheater) 2.how many games does it take to prove someone is cheating? (with focusing on avoiding false positive) 3.effect size how hacking in ow2? (how does it impact the games of players overall?)

[@omnislash8981]

Me: IM BORED AT WORK AT 3AM. I NEED SOMETHING TO LISTEN TO. SVB: I gotchu homie

[@ryancake42]

Hmm security I'm guessing?

[@Bluemansonic]

@@ryancake42 same here

[@omnislash8981]

@@ryancake42 Overnight Stocking team. Close though!

[@Xdxdxdmoneu]

same

[@Chris-md8nt]

Brig has always had such a weirdly subtle way of healing and their solution so far has to put in really loud voice lines lol. I think a visual indicator would go a long way.

[@erikhendrickson59]

It also doesn't fit within her over kit design. It's incredibly annoying to be on the front-lines with your tank trying to melee enemies for Inspire healing procs and constantly flicking a full 180° anytime someone in your backline needs a quick heal.

[@nuclearsimian3281]

Agreed. That would totally change the way she's played in low ranks because then people would be able to see their impact firsthand.

[@Bioshyn]

i mean people literally stand next to a breakdancing lucio having yellow crosses flying all over their screen still spamming "need healing"

[@plain-bagel]

The problem with a visual is that the radius on inspire is 40m! Can you imagine the visual clutter of a lucio-like aura across an entire point?

[@Chris-md8nt]

@@plain-bagel true I didn’t think of that maybe they could just put something on the hud like how mercy beam does.

[@phatthrak]

svb "rant" about the rank distribution at around 1:45:00 is very well said.

[@Thekidwithair01]

Freedo nailed it with the LoL comparison. As long as the cross over skins remain a "cosplay" type integration, I think this will be a successful venture for Blizzard.

[@starhaven1881]

they could even be some fun voice lines where heros question what the hell people are wearing.

[@blockinglowtier]

I need zen to say "seek help"

[@Bluemansonic]

THE OG'S!!!!! Welcome back Freedo

[@joshsansom1971]

On god

[@sincexciv6598]

Agreed. Always a great debate when these four are in the line up!

[@blockinglowtier]

​@@joshsansom1971 fr fr

[@christopherripley5081]

It’s funny how when they match tank mmr against tank mmr… dps against dps… support against support… the game feels way more balanced

[@CROSSFADE69]

couldn't agree more

[@willwilliams2944]

yeah top500 tanks in diamond lobbies that's balanced.

[@bedeviere]

when exactly did that change go out

[@Summit_FPS]

@@willwilliams2944 Skill issue

[@simpsonrrrr2724]

@@Summit_FPS I mean yes but the point of comp matchmaking is to minimize skill issues to that degree.

[@harrisonfelice8160]

Idk how he knows so much about low rank but Flats rant at 59:25 is so true. I was in a low plat game and my Reinhardt was charging in getting discord orbed and melted by the enemy Bastion and he literally said on voice "I need healing when I'm engaging guys."

[@dragonsreingsupreme1]

It is known of there is a zen I am not expecting anything from supports the onus is on the dps to kill that annoying omnic

[@cashraymond464]

@flats even if u don't see yourself as a technical person dare I say smart, I truelly believe, when it comes to OW u don't miss a beat with a point. When im thinking of a counter, you answer it. So thank you for yohr points keep talking whether your channell or somewhere else. Love to hear it

[@nowisnotweird]

Listening to Freedo talk about overwatch is becoming ASMR for me. I love the debates in general, but this line up of old men is my favorite (as old man myself). Great takes, nuanced thought processes, multiple points of view and skill level. Such good shit

[@synatra_]

i think it's pretty funny how all 4 have the same beard with almost the same length as well

[@LesStewartLPS]

Good on SVB and Flats for going to bat for the devs ability to work from home. The defence of Return to Office policies is pretty myoptic. I get the impulse to hope for the best, but the fact that this is an established trend in corporate Americas doesn't excuse it; it just reveals the intentions. As gamers, these policies will likely lead to a much larger loss in talented staff than any positive impact of intra-office collaborations. Speaking of collabs, I'm not too interested in them generally, but One-Punch Man is great and the way they've done the skins (like cosplays as mentioned) fits the game and is fun in its own right. However, I imagine that Blizzard will stay away from 'Rick and Morty' given the current charges against Justin Roiland. "Ah geez McCree..."

[@pokvirus5705]

I believe ABK leaders simply run out of people to sexually harass back at home so they want everyone back in the office.

[@manlymanmann7592]

Too many dudes are sex pests.

[@sd-king2916]

@SVB I absolutely adore the frequency at which you are producing these podcasts 🙌 Thank you for the quality overwatch discussions for me to listen to while I drive or work

[@reformed1trick739]

Samito, I would love to see you make a brig guide. What an arc that would be for you

[@gujonteitur4853]

He has made a educational unranked to gm with brig only

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

You're in luck

[@James_15R]

Let's go!! Always love these discussions. Thanks boys!

[@SuperSarutobisensei]

As a Zen main, I mostly care about my personal damage breakpoints. Take discord away if you want, just buff his damage to compensate

[@-.Outlaw.-]

No. If anything nerf his damage and compensate by upgrading his healing. We don’t need braindead spam Zens adding more damage to a game where there’s too much Burt damage. Zen players are such speds

[@CZAR.6]

@@-.Outlaw.- yeah let’s just make every support a healbot and further homogenize the cast, great idea man you’re a bright one

[@-.Outlaw.-]

@@CZAR.6 yes because making roles overlap less and thus making them more unique and less intrusive is definitively a bad thing.. you have autism. The people who pick Zens are the useless hun hands who want the instant endorphin rush of getting an elim but don’t have the patience to play zen. They don’t want to heal, they don’t want to tank they just want to shoot things lmao. But we’ll we’re at it let’s make a tank that can heal the entire team, and a dps that can create shields for their entire team, because overlapping roles are such a cool and fun idea

[@fuscello]

I don’t think he needs any compensation if you nerf zen, maybe a small one for his healing but his base damage is good even without discord

[@-.Outlaw.-]

@@fuscello this

[@musicxxa6678]

Balance is so great right now. I love it. I'm surprised how it worked out this good.

[@Falcochio1706]

2:38:00 My only complaint about the Hanzo skin is it does not change the two dragons in the ult to two hearts with trails otherwise, FANTASTIC!

[@mooseymoof]

Really loving these podcasts, so thank you to SVB and his guests. Always walk away at the end with at least one new perspective on the game and development

[@srtnnrnn7405]

Samito is completely right about how visually weird Brig is when you're playing her. Not even just inspire but even the range of her main swing is very difficult to gauge for a lot of players.

[@PyrncessTempest]

(Not talking about anyone in the podcast) It's actually really funny as a mercy main watching a lot of dps complain about Mercy new buff, despite being the same ones who were toxic and antagonizing us bc we were not happy with the movement nerf. I wish there was some middle ground where we could all be happy, and Blizzard actually tries to move in that direction.

[@SlipperySnake321]

Flats was absolutely right about the work from home stuff. We don't need more "good old boy" bullshit about synergy in the office and efficiency. One point they didn't mention is that a lot of managers want to work in the office because it justifies their existences. It is hard to justify your existence if you can't be seen having a bunch of bullshit meetings, randomly bothering your reports, or just roaming around. People might get the idea that some managers don't do a whole lot.

[@Jeuxetgobelins]

That podcast deserves more views!

[@paulahrens581]

How many more views does it deserve?

[@Blackbirddc]

I really disagree with Freedo about Mercy. His inability to shoot mercy in the sky is more a personal skill issue and not a hero design issue. Her healing output is a bit too OP now and the hero is less fun for Mercy mains...yeah that's a problem.

[@RedBeard-qw4hc]

There is no broken hero in overwatch. There is only broken abilities. The reason why zen is considered bad at low elo is because he doesn't heal a lot, and healing is stronger the more you go down the rank (bc bad positionning, they take more damage, tanks feed more etc). But DISCORD is op at every rank. Discord is this ability that counters tanking as a role. Back in season 2 I would often swap to zen bc my team can only shoot the orisa/hog without ever killing them, and discord makes it so you can actually kill an orisa or a hog. Not the hero we wanted, but the one we needed.

[@TheNeoMc]

The problem with work-from-home is that a lot of people take advantage of it to work significantly less. However, there are SOME jobs and SOME employees that can work most efficiently in a remote environment, plus it does give a company access to workers from around the world. It isn't a black or white decision...

[@bainasaur]

Real talk a Babymetal Kiriko crossover skin would be lit

[@BetaNurse68]

What’s interesting as a business graduate, it has been shown it saves companies so much more money to have employees work remotely. From property, cleaning, tax costs etc on top of benefits like less turnover and higher productivity as well as flexibility with absent workers that are sick or call out. It’s crazy that some companies have realize this and others haven’t

[@Bebopvicious00]

I am a developer and we transitioned to work from home in Missouri. And the developers have basically said we are not going back. Most C Level people think collaboration is best in person. However with microsoft teams its really a non starter. My company is currently restructuring our building and will probably consolidate its other properties. Which is the right decision.

[@christopherripley5081]

I’ve always felt the best path for mercy is for them to accept mercy is an off support like zen Lucio. Nerf her healing to like 50/45 and give her… the movement back. Let what she’s pocketing die not her. No dps needs 55hps… normally a zen orb is more than enough for a dps… and mercy isn’t a tank pocket

[@-NoNo.]

I would accept 1.75- 2 second ga, flat 55 hps, but keep the healing change for valk because if she is going to be an off support then a pseudo support ult would be really nice to have. Also just to stop the discussion on damage boost, tweak the dps passive to cleanse the damage boost effect if they were to do over 195 damage with damage boost applied. That would only apply to things like widow, soujurn, Hanzo, I.e. single targeted instances of damage

[@dakotaseckman1457]

For the first time I actually agree with everything in the entire podcast.

[@Zyborgg]

The takeaway from the first part of the pod is that all supports are viable in some way this season and they are really good when played right. Which is absurd when you think about it, how can all supports be good? Cause they have their own spot in the meta. You can play mercy bap with sigma on junkertown, if they have a ball player you could play brig zen, or have an ana to sleep the ball. Lucio still works with rush, much harder to play some kind of dps/flanker lucio with all this survivability. DPS is almost unkillable with mercy pocket. Flanker moira is really good in some scenarios. Kirikos survivability with tp and suzu is insane.

[@jonahkey9313]

Freedo in a hat is actually hella drip

[@mrpetebojangles21]

I want that hat lol

[@Link2855]

Ball's changes (outside of ult) didn't raise his kill potential or his tankyness, they but they increased his uptime so he can engage more often. If you were gonna die on ball or not get kill before, these buffs aren't gonna help you not die in the same situation or to finish the kill where you couldn't before. But, for ball players who know how to use him and are able to do those things, now they can more often. Good ball players get to get max value more often now, and mediocre balls get to feed more often.

[@thedofflin]

As a Zen main I wouldn't miss discord orb at all, and I think a lot of Zen mains would agree. It's not necessary to the hero fantasy, I don't really think about the ability I just subconsciously spam it on whatever target needs to die and that's it. I'd be very happy if discord orb applied a different kind of debuff or at least required me to more actively think about how to use it best.

[@ESPA333]

As a Zen main myself I'd argue that the whole yin yang balance that is key to his character would be disrupted by removing discord's damage debuff and lessen the characters flavor or identity. Just look at Cassidy's stupid homing grenade that fits nothing about a cowboy archetype and for me at least makes the character feel disjointed and not part of his supposed style. As for Zen his whole purpose is to be an implied threat on a space and force the other team to play smarter if he has sight lines to them. Unlike Widow you can still respond to his '1 shots' charge attack so the discord forces smarter engagement angles and teamwork to push through where he is posted up on a lane instead of blindly rushing forward. Couple this with his lack of movement ability and you can catch and punish a Zen who also doesn't respect the sight lines of the enemy team while using good cover and he is well balanced with how squishy he is. Nerfing something that is easy to deal with a small amount of tactics or forethought is more of a statement to a player's game sense and skill than a problem with Zenyatta himself. Just my 2 cents

[@thedofflin]

@@ESPA333 I never suggested removing the discord orb as a feature of his kit, in fact I suggested reworking it to apply a different debuff but could still be considered a 'discord orb'. It could, for example, slow down the ability cooldowns on the target you apply discord to, or it could reduce the enemy damage output. I'm not a good game designer, but hopefully you get my point. Discord itself could also have a cooldown and apply a more significant debuff to an enemy for a short duration. Discord could also be changed to a skill shot, so you apply it to your next damage orb and you need to hit the shot. There are plenty of options that don't undermine Zen's role and responsibilities as outlined in your comment, but what needs to be addressed is the 'auto-win' aspect of lazily applying discord to the tank or other aggressive enemy heroes. Discord orb _does not take skill,_ and that's not good.

[@noahdtdog9082]

FINALLY!!! I LOVE THIS GROUP SO MUCH!!! Glad my boy Freedo is finally back, we love to see it. Thanks as always SVB ❤

[@jtck1310]

I think that if they wanted to nerf mercys survivability. Why not just make her health 175

[@codysearchfield8258]

On the mercy changes - last night I played a QP game as mercy that I played nearly flawlessly. I had 0 deaths, 4 rezzes, and 8k healing, while my other support had only 2k as Moira. We got ROLLED. Perfect mercy play cannot outheal shitty positioning from your teammates.

[@MAW-20]

Great talk. Disagree with Flats on discord. Everyone has the character they hate the most and I think it is zen for flats lol. I do think every support has an ultra broken normal ability (Ult on cool down) so his argument could transfer to other heroes. Like after zen, he'd just target blue beam. And then after that, he'd target the next tank oppressing ability. It is just that zen's ability punishes tanks a lot. I do agree with him on the streamer mode stuff. It is actually awful. I agree with Sam on stacking tbh. It would be a breath of fresh air.

[@xZiDaM]

I agree with you. It’s Zen now, then Mercy, Kiriko, Bap… It’s funny how they started the video with saying how balanced the support role is but as soon as Blizzard changes support characters they will create multiple useless characters, and streamers will be the first people to complain about it.

[@mrpetebojangles21]

As a Zen main, I think he is FINE! His healing is still garbage, he’s still got the easiest hitbox to hit, he’s still slow, he has no mobility, but what he does have is FRAG! I love the extra 5 ammo they gave him and still greatly appreciate the Zen kick haha. Im enjoying my time in Masters with him and would like to get into GM but… we’ll see.

[@tymiller176]

Does anyone know if there's a more casual, less elitist OW podcast type of videos. People that aren't just focused on balance. This season, being a Mercy main is horrible, Symm and Brig mains still want the hero to be more fun but this isn't discussed because they are "balanced".

[@x4tfxChallenger]

As a Mercy main, she should not be able to heal that well when a teammate is below 50% health. That’s unfair and in some cases, unbeatable. They these guys mentioned, most Mercy mains would vote for high mobility with standard healing per second than medium mobility and higher healing per second.

[@abdulbarry9845]

Hey guys, just thought of this Discord: instead of an instant cast and application. Let it be a projectile with a hitbox and hp with travel time with a swooping arc. Discord orb can now be shot and destroyed mid flight but not when attached to players. The discord can essentially curve corners kind of like a bigger Golden snitch from Harry Potter but shrinks to player model when attached. Maybe a bit smaller in volume, than Moira orb but about the same speed so even a fire strike could tag it. Properties: Lasts 4 secs Break LOS 1.5 sex Debuffs: 17% dmg increase Slow CD regen Slow movement speed by 8% The idea is now that discord inherently becomes a skill shot, u can allow more power into the orb itself but allow some counter play.

[@-NoNo.]

This is really funny, because mercy players said this since the day that the patch came out, they expressed their grievances and how they thought these changes were not good and they got hammered for it. Now popular dps players say the same thing and all of a sudden it’s “wow they are so smart and knowledgeable”. Like come on

[@StriderYGO]

You're leaving some crucial details out in your story, buddy

[@-NoNo.]

@@StriderYGO enlighten me… buddy

[@Whiskaaaz]

Now, I'm a plat player so my opinion isn't the most concrete, but what if discord got reworked to reduce incoming healing and zen just got a slight damage buff to compensate? I feel like it would make target prioritization more important and you wouldn't blow up as a tank so immediately when you're discorded

[@LucianNicolescu-yb1mo]

in France apparently the frown at you if you eat lunch at your desk as well

[@WizardKitty723]

Mercy feels clunky and unfun with the GA nerf. Also, not happy with no self-heal in Valk

[@jsan2548]

My typical game on Ball has always been me dead on cooldown, but even I’ve able to get things done on him this patch for the first time since he released. It’s nice. I won’t get used to it.

[@Pidkai]

Brushing my teeth and listening. 1:21:52 scared the SHIT out of me hahahaha

[@Kirathian1234]

I think a CD would fix discord orb. It's not really an ability that can be played around and being able to play around stuff tends to fix a lot of things. After discord orb is removed from play (like a turret) the ability goes on a 5-6 CD before it can be used again. That's 5 seconds the tank knows he will have his full defensive abilities. Then you could leave the abilities power and gameplay intact while providing some level of counterplay. You could even buff the removal time to 3 seconds out of LoS or something if this change completely kills Zen.

[@GraphiteBlimp27]

I feel like Freedo would understand Samito about Kiriko if he played the heroes Sam plays. Doom, Genji, Echo, etc… on all those types of characters you have to go in and risk your neck at some point to get any value. If you are trying to make a comeback from a deficit you just cannot rely on your best picks if they run a halfway decent Kiriko. Your only play to bait the suzu on those kinds of picks is to actually risk your life and unless they screw up or your teammates save you, it’s basically suicide because there is nothing you can do to stop the suzu. So instead, it’s FAR easier to sit back on a hero like Widowmaker and take like 15 serious attempts to eliminate an enemy without ever leaving your backline. It’s just dumb unearned value for the Kiriko players and makes all your good plays look like stupid mistakes because she can just undo it. Like yes things can be immortalitied or bubbled but those abilities are more outplayable. Kiriko’s just does too much at once especially when she can always be there by teleporting through walls. You can’t take side lane fights out of LOS to avoid it or force it by attacking her because she will just teleport.

[@peterlucus2062]

New Mercy healing changes make playing Ball a nightmare to kill things sometimes. Diving a Widow being pocketed is difficult at times for example.

[@ponderdiggums4589]

Samito is a bit off base with his take on people needing to go to the office. It's not a gray area. WFH is healthier for the workers, and cheaper for the company in the long run. I've been working in games and software for 10 years - the only time WFH is gonna be an issue in most of these settings is if the company refuses to adapt their processes and infrastructure.

[@richardhenry9844]

I personally like the idea of making zen discord a damage-over-time. The intention of the ability is to make the target die faster, which this would still accomplish on squishies, but it would almost be meaningless leaving it on a tank.

[@diegocorvalan5435]

That would feel terrible, someone just uses e on you and you start losing hp

[@richardhenry9844]

@@diegocorvalan5435 I disagree, and how is that any different from any other ability, it's not like there isn't an indicator that it's on you, just break LoS. And I'd say that the current discord feels way worse, just instant death when it's followed up on.

[@LT_Gam1ng]

Samito: I dont think any game has captured the identity of characters aswell as overwatch has The Orange Box, the Devil may cry series, and The metal gear series (including rising): Hold my beer.

[@kawnTTV]

This is the best podcast combination. Please keep this toster as much as schedules allow.

[@HeyApples]

One of the most profound strengths of Overwatch has been their character development. I know people who want fuck all nothing to do with playing the game, but absolutely adore the video shorts, comics, voice lines, stories, lore, etc. It's exciting to see them tapping into this market, even in a subtle way, with the loverwatch event. I've always said the future of the game is a TV series, feature film, online media, etc. because the cast is so compelling.

[@johankruger334]

As a Zen main, discord orb can go, just give me 60 dmg per shot without it so I can two tap squishies form across the map xD

[@ItsOnlyGenjutsu]

I like the every other GA having jump. However, low ranks may *will have problems tracking GA and jumps. So, jump should be on a cool down that makes you miss one GA, but allows it to be ready on next for sure(or rather, ensures you wait the proper amount of time). Like, say I GA-use jump... the next GA won't have jump... now, say I hold that GA (with no jump). The cool down should unlock it since I waited adequate time. That way I don't see "crit" GA in, notice the Widow has peek... and can't nook into that cozy doorway lol. Hopefully that makes sense. It should be on every other GA, and unlocks after adequate time without GA use.

[@CZProductions]

More people playing comp is accurate as hell on PC. I regularly have flex on for quickplay and I'm sitting at 5ish minutes to find a match. I queue for literally any role for comp and find a match within 2 minutes. Not sure if people my MMR (diamond area) just don't play QP or what.

[@jadedragon1174]

1:42:24 just make suzu have a slight damage reduction and make it so that doom and knock back could interact

[@jsj0520]

I think a good idea to change discord would be this. Once zen applies it the initial damage boost is only 10%, and it lasts for 4 seconds on the target. But each shot that zen lands on the target adds 2 seconds to the timer (maxing out at 6 sec) and boost the damage by 5% for each hit (maxing out at 25%). Breaking LoS makes the timer drain twice as fast, similar to how ramattra’s ult currently works. And if an enemy is diving zen or zen is aggressive and risks his own life. If he kicks a discorded enemy it raises the timer and damage to their max. (6 sec & 25% damage) So if a zen marks a rein now and gets 2 shots in before he puts his shield up, the rein has 20% extra damage taken for 6 seconds. If at any point within those 6 seconds zen hits rein again 5% extra damage gets added to discord and it adds 2 seconds to the timer. For another example say there is a tracer diving zen. If the zen plays corners correctly or the tracer is a bit too aggressive and in his face, he can discord her then immediately kick her to give her max time and damage boost. Of course you could just hit all headshots and that would be faster but even T500 can’t do that against a tracer consistently. If discord was removed either by dodging / blocking the Zen’s attacks or LoS that target can not be discorded for the next 4 seconds. But zen can still apply discord to any other enemy like he can right now. Spamming discord rapidly just makes each previous target have the 4 second discord block. I think this solves a lot of issues with it. Now zen has to earn that extra damage by hitting his shots and can still make it last indefinitely on tanks without shields / eating abilities (like javelin spin or defense matrix). Sure his self defense is reduced a bit since you will have to hit 3 shots or kick an enemy to gain the current damage boost but I still feel this is plenty fair and gives zen much more tactical decision making. If his survivability drops too much, possibly adding some form of personal life-steal to discord would be very interesting. Of the top of my head each attack zen lands on a discorded target could heal him for 10% of the overall damage dealt.

[@jacobbaartz7710]

Maybe his primary fire is what applies the discord passive effect? Each orb by ~4-5%, lasting for however long it takes to fire 5 orbs. I personally don't play zen, although it's super disheartening seeing supports on the chopping block for their only fun and offensive mechanics. For me it's definitely the dedication to healing that ruins the role in 5v5. I hate that the community prescribes gameplay from the class titles. It relinquishes any thought of what works best into who can be blamed easiest.

[@michaelpurdon7032]

The Mercy change convo is interesting from a design point of view. The tank players have most issue with it but is that ok? I play a lot of tank and support so I see both sides. When I try and take a step back and look at it from a high level I think that it's ok that supports can save people who have made a mistake. I think that it's a differentiator between OW and other games. Its not black and white though so it's fair to debate whether this change is specifically good but in general support play doesn't feel good if you can't bail people out. I prefer a hero like Mercy as-is than abilities like lamp

[@RevonChaoz]

It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness, it is Overwatch.

[@cynthiahembree3957]

It's just competitive gaming in general sometimes the enemy team is just better

[@tinychimp09]

There have been a lot of large companies experiencing a reduction in productivity with WFH measures. I know people defend having the option because it's a nice option to have, and let's face it, the average worker isn't always equipped to know how productivity can actually be improved or managed. WFH is about self interest from the workers pov, and that's all well and good. But you have to admit it is weird how just because of lockdowns, workers now have this totally new expectation that suddenly every company has to abide to just to maintain satisfaction levels. It's a bit nutty. The idea that the company wants you in their office to try and manage your workload and presence better was literally the norm just 3 years ago. I do think it's silly to not give the option where possible, but there's some massive cope and overreaction going on with that story too.

[@cynthiahembree3957]

Exactly I feel like this is crazy because some companies have been using this system already. It's wild how quickly people forget how the world was and what the pandemic changed

[@hexia6760]

Give Zen's Discord a 4sec CD everytime he switches target. Targets eliminated with a Discord upon them resets his CD, but getting out of LOS of Discord doesn't reset the CD.

[@DavidPeoplesTV]

I love flats but lately it feels like his thoughts on buffs and nerfs are this: if it helps characters he likes to play, it’s “yay this is awesome” and if it helps characters he doesn’t play, it’s “this is op it’s too hard to play against”

[@user-et3xn2jm1u]

I'm pretty sure support queues are down, I know they've made matchmaking changes which could impact queue times but these are the longest non-supp queues I've seen since OW2 launched. The dev stats also match a reduction in the support playerbase.

[@sincexciv6598]

I think the biggest problem with the new mercy healing is it takes no skill. There’s no aiming needed. Just consistent heals.

[@ssccaappeeggooaatt]

I'd be afraid that this would also gut zen, but I wonder if transferring that 25% dmg boost to a 25% heal reduction would be healthier. Keep breakpoints a bit safer while still encouraging target focus

[@teejay1646]

I like the idea but it would need to do other things or it's just a worse antinade

[@ssccaappeeggooaatt]

@@teejay1646 no cd, though lol but yeah

[@matartdotcom]

I keep talking about this in all of my game groups: they need to do diminishing returns on some of these characters to prevent 'botting'. For example, on a Mercy, if you sit and just heal or damage bot one character, perhaps the rate decreases over time. I haven't done the math AT ALL on this, so don't quote me, but as an example, perhaps it's 30% boost for the first three seconds, and then decreases by x% every second thereafter, to a certain lower threshold. Same could be done, potentially, with Zen. His damage orb loses effectiveness the longer it sits on one character. Both of these could potentially have like a 'refresh timer' that has to go away for full effectiveness. That would force the player to actually think about who and when they're targeting. (I'm sure I'll have more to say as I go through the video, but I'm currently at 40:00)

[@iyxon]

The avengers always hit the nail on the head!!

[@Ohsnapsjay08]

the best small buff for brig (if she gets one) is to have her mace hit slow the target for 2-3 seconds. doesnt have to be that stun like OW1

[@Mr_SamuelAdam]

The inflation take is wrong... I went 5-5 w/l I went master 1 to GM 4. Makes zero sense. I also went 5-7 and went m5 to master 3. There was something going on. But think it's been hot fixed now.

[@diametheuslambda]

There's things to do to Discord: It can decay over time. Sure, Zen can recast it but there's casting and travel time penalties to consider, plus regaining LoS. So there's a premium for timing and active management. Or, it can depend on distance between Zen and target, drawing him out to the open. And while that's not the main issue, I wish kick displaced both Zen and the target for half the distance, so it's easier to chase him on treacherous areas.

[@ESPA333]

Nah leave the big boot to make the rush rats respect my man Zenyatta in close quarters. I may also just be biased with the fun I have juggling tanks like rein in a corner with it or annoying Lucio's who must feel the boop themselves

[@isaacarndt179]

Bro this podcast just goes on a march to kill all the things I enjoy in this game. Mercy was fun y’all killed it. Kiriko was fun. Zen is fun and now that’s next. Y’all just only like the game when you get to run the show😢

[@idakatrinenrskov2709]

They could make it so discord orb deals less damage on tanks

[@Vastspartan]

Or.....just get rid of it.

[@jplayzow]

The movement nerf to mercy was the one thing I feel like nobody who plays mercy particularly enjoyed I feel like it does make it infinitely easier to kill though

[@str8totehtop]

what do you guys think about staggering the bonus damage of discord orb. and make it kinda of a pool that gets filled and applied over time. so you are still encouraged to remove it and dont have it on you forever but gives you more chances to make a play or escape.

[@JimboTMX]

Love these guests

[@steve13thlegion16]

I'm mostly with Flats on the Mercy changes. Shes not as fun to play and shes even less fun to play against because her heal is so powerful on low health characters.

[@cl0ver091]

As a mercy main I'm not absolutely disgusting with the changes. We got some, we lost some. But I'd be very nervous about any more radical changes anytime soon. A little bit more in one direction she'll be a throw pick, and a little more in the opposite and she'll be a must pick. Flats mentioned most mercy players aren't happy and a lot of players against the mercy aren't happy. Well.. "A good compromise is when both parties are dissatisfied."

[@ItsOnlyGenjutsu]

Dammit Sam! I've brought that up SO many times..... that I have just stopped now. And, well I actually did mention it in my list of options in the comment down below*novel. But, he would need compensation elsewhere, just some small tuning, as his solo queue experience would be non existent. No one's in chat, no one helps zen, your only hope would be GGs

[@SnakeSkinz]

This will always be the best lineup for this podcast

[@lefay5082]

Add a cooldown to zen orb like projected bubble on Zar. Can’t reapply orb to same person right away

[@lightswornking2474]

My suggestions for discord orb: 1. Put I on a medium length cooldown 2. Or make it so u can't discord some1 again for a few seconds. 3. Make it so it has a maximum amount of damage it can do and then it disappears. Ex 100 damage cap, so after doing 400 damage to that target (so disc does 100) it goes away, so at least zen has to reapply it and it's not as punishing on tanks. I think 3 + 1 or 2 would help curve a lot of frustration w/o being a massive nerf

[@atipetres1404]

Flats with the massive L take here. I think he is slowly becoming the biggest baby in the streamer community. He just always complains about everything if his hero pool isn't strong and it's kind of becoming tired.

[@ES_DCSAVIOR101]

Discord is the biggest reason why I don't play tank all too often.

[@thedofflin]

2:01:47 I totally agree that the game finally feels like I'm playing Overwatch now. We now get to play heroes where you need to turn on your brain and think strategically and tactically, _as well as_ being mechanically skilful. It feels good to finally be rewarded for all that knowledge I'd gained playing OW1 where I can beat teams as Rein, Winston, Ball, Zen, Brig. These heroes don't auto-win in the slightest, but if you know what you're doing you can get great value out of them. It feels good to outplay people in a wider variety of ways than hitting 1-shots/burst combos or counter-picking. Hero interactions are no longer limited to the hero selection screen or someone's ability to click on a head once in a while.

[@Stoeltzenjammer]

Here's a crazy idea for a Zenn discord orb balance, what if they added a timer to how long discord could stay on a target, lets say 8 seconds like sombra hack, or since its team wide damage buff, 5 seconds, then when that timer is gone, the ability goes on cooldown for like 8 or 5 seconds, matching the amount of time its on a target. Then it's not perma on someone and you can't just spam it. To compensate, they could bring the damage buff back up to 30% since it won't be on the target for as long. Then it would require coordination from our team to take the target down before discord goes away.

[@RedBeard-qw4hc]

Hero bans is the kind of idea that could bring solutions to a lot of issues, but also create other problems. The fact that the game is designed around counter swapping is a problem. Hero bans could be used to enable some picks that don't have a lot of counters like ana, or sniper heroes, or god forbid, pharah/mercy.

[@Michael-pn4xu]

As long as the team can ship quality products I don't see why it matters if they are in the office or not. But if they are going to force people to go back to offices there should be satellite campuses so that not everyone will have to relocate to Irvine. Where the cost of living is outrageous.

[@ReQuiiemLavi]

svb finaly fixed his microphone volume !

[@BAIARJ]

I feel like Flats tends to shit on any character who disables or makes his mains life a little harder. 90% of his takes are really good but sometimes it gets so biased (in the case of Zen and Ball for example) that is borderline comic

[@peskyanteater5267]

Tank is such a trash roll to play it’s so unenjoyable and will forever be that way

[@Nightmare-eo4io]

I've been playing a lot more towards throwing people out of bounds lately because I straight up can't kill anything as a tank. Once their tank is gone I can come back and chase down their healers but God damn having mercy right in front of you healing the tank neither of them able to die is the most infuriating thing in the game right now

[@K3nji_S]

I'd like to see more suggestions of what those changes would actually look like. Instead of complaining about abilities, offering solutions would be more helpful.

[@hanksoandso8778]

Suggestions for Zen: 1) Make him choose one orb or the other Or 2) Put discord orb on cooldown but remove Los stopping it. 10sec up time 6 sec cooldown.

[@fuscello]

Maybe reverse the times: 6 dev duration, 10 sec cooldown

[@GriFFonRec4]

I wanna see them shift Zen's Orb uptime. Make Harmony last for like 3 seconds without line of sight, which buffs Tracer, Genji, Sombra ect indirectly, and make Discord last for .5 seconds without LOS. He has to be looking you in the EYES if he wants to keep you discorded. Then you can almost treat Zen like a Sniper, and gives you more room to work around. If he wants to keep discord on you, maybe he needs to put himself in a slightly more open sight line which exposes him to your teammates. Hell with this change it almost reminds me of Ramattra's ult a bit, and fits the theme they have going on there. Maybe they could add a graphic which shows you the direction you got the discord from too so you can look and see him peeking out whenever he discords you as a slight nerf too.