Vegan is confronted about wanting to make meat illegal | DEBATE A VEGAN

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TODAY'S VIDEO:
In today’s video I sit down with Cameron at UCSD to discuss whether or not veganism is a moral obligation. We discuss his justifications for not being vegan before he then challenges me on whether or not I think eating meat should be illegal.
#Veganism #Debate #Vegan
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ABOUT ED:
Ed Winters is a vegan educator, best-selling author, public speaker and content creator. Ed has spoken at over 1/3 of UK universities and at 6 Ivy league colleges, including as a guest lecturer at Harvard University in both 2019 and 2020. He has given speeches across the world, including at the University of Cambridge, EPFL, Google NYC and Google Zürich. In early 2019 he gave 2 TEDx talks, surpassing a total of 2 million views online. His speech “You Will Never Look at Your Life in the Same Way Again” has 35 million accumulative views online and has been given to thousands of students across UK universities.

[@ed.winters]

What are your thoughts on making meat illegal? 🌱 If you find my work at universities valuable, you can become a regular supporter or make a one-off contribution through the following links (thank you!): earthlinged.org/support & patreon.com/earthlinged 📚 Order my best-selling book This is Vegan Propaganda (& Other Lies the Meat Industry Tells You) here: earthlinged.org/orderbook 🎤 Organise a speech or presentation at your company/education establishment: earthlinged.org/contact

[@Gaming_Vegan_Ape]

Can we make a shirt that reads praise Jesus, but have it be your image instead of "jesus". You're doing "God's work" brother.

[@v.a.n.e.]

it’s the craziest idea I’ve ever heard. how do you think your bones will be able to move at all without meat?

[@andylucas6962]

Would never work? people would just start breeding and slaughtering their own animals 🙄

[@Gaming_Vegan_Ape]

@@v.a.n.e. bones don't move, they support. Your muscles move your bones. Plants have plenty of protein to support muscle growth to "move your bones"

[@v.a.n.e.]

@@Gaming_Vegan_Ape that is exactly my claim. muscles are made up of meat, without muscles there is no movement. if meat is made illegal, how will we be able to move?

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

We're still recovering from the "bloodlust" guy, Ed ;-)

[@Alaskaventureswithbrodie]

Exactly!

[@WeyHeyItsTina]

Nothing to recover from, he’s a human being who doesn’t need to be “recovered from”; cut him some slack.

[@ppittie9747]

Right???? Ugh

[@veganfortheanimals6994]

@@WeyHeyItsTina zero sense of humor. Either a carnist or a pick-me vegan...

[@Cubium]

EnGiNeErInG’s CoMpEtItIvE

[@lunarkid.]

Just for the record here: Ed became vegan 7 years ago and his brain seems still working exceptionally well.

[@KayleJudicator]

Do you know if he supplements in omega 3 EPA/DHA ? i have been vegan for more than 5 years and i wonder if i should, the informations i collected on the subject are unclear, there is no official line recomandation on this. I eat flax seeds everyday in order to prevent any deficiency but it could be not enough considering some people don't convert anything from ALA. As he seems really smart, quick minded and in a good shape, it would be great to know.

[@RENX5]

@@KayleJudicator if you eat flaxseeds everyday you should be fine. What are omnivores eating compensating for those omegas? Fish? I’m pretty sure some people just eat it once or twice a month and they’re (apparently) fine. You probably have your omegas in place more than 80% of omnivore population. Still, if you’re concerned, a blood test should clear up your doubts!

[@anthony3014]

​@@KayleJudicator Maybe obvious advice, but if you want to check your omega 3 levels get a blood test for it, the index and ratio can say whether you're consuming enough :)

[@KayleJudicator]

@@RENX5 Yeah it's obviously what i should do to clear up my apprehensions but this blood test is not prescribed easily and is not reimbursed by the social healthcare in France.

[@KayleJudicator]

@@anthony3014 I'm consuming 3 tablespoon of flax seeds each day, if i'm not consuming enough omega 3 ALA, who will at this point lmfao.

[@DebugYourBrain]

This guy is pretty representative of most people I film for outreach. 1) Unlike debating internet trolls most people don't bite insane bullets 2) Most people say "yea that's a good point" or "yea that's fair" 3) Most people don't converse in bad faith. If you only debate with people online, get out on the street. Your mental health will thank you.

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Yes, Mr. Winters’ understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶 The fact that he repeatedly asserts that "humans are animals" shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩 Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT to ban animal agriculture! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ2YeKOugb2hq6s (Go to the 8:15 mark).

[@erichmyles4481]

sure, but those same people will share their actual beliefs online.

[@LouisGedo]

👋

[@connannbarbarin3033]

so you still refuse to debate me?

[@tofu-munchingCoalition.ofChaos]

@@connannbarbarin3033 Demanding that in a trolling behaviour online after that comment is funny.

[@FruityHachi]

this guy is so chill, doesn't get defensive, which is a breath of fresh air because when i try to ask people what do they value more taste or life, they get so incredibly defensive that from that point on all they do is attack my approach

[@v1e3g1a2n]

Yeah, when you can't attack what people say, you can attack the way they say it ...

[@Nimish204]

My taste

[@FruityHachi]

@@chrisf2952 that's enough internet for you today

[@jackmagnell]

@@Nimish204did you watch the video

[@lynns7262]

If the person tells me they value taste and convenience over life, I let them go. But if they say they love animals and they condone suffering, then I start talking.

[@happycats9034]

Honest dude, there's a very good chance that this will lead him to think about it more, and eventually go vegan

[@gillosborne9516]

I like this young man. He has thought through the issues. Let’s hope this dialogue with Ed leads to him becoming vegan.

[@chainamarie03]

This kid hasn't thought thru anything. I also hope he becomes vegan but it'll probably more than Ed to enlighten him.

[@gillosborne9516]

@@chainamarie03 Maybe I’m more optimistic about people than you are.

[@amelie3012]

@@chainamarie03 I was like that for two years before becoming vegetarian, another year after I became vegan. Yes it took more than conversations with my first vegan housemate for me to change. Over time I eventually did. I am not saying I was right to hurt animals in the meantime, I wasn't. But this dude's on the right track, it takes longer for some people, and I can guarantee you he'll be vegan one day

[@DouglasAbramskiOfficial]

@@chainamarie03 based on who's expertise?

[@DouglasAbramskiOfficial]

@@gillosborne9516 seems like you have morality handled. Maybe now for humility?

[@annala2956]

I'm always fascinated how people are more willing to say "I contribute to the killing of animals" than to say "I contribute to the suffering of animals". It goes back to how they can call anything "humanely killed". Weird

[@justsomerandomname2067]

It does make sense to me. I honestly dont even think its immoral to kill an animal that was born in order to be killed for food, i think the immoral part is the suffering we cause them

[@bannedaccount540]

You contribute to just as much animal suffering as any normal person, all the fruits and vegetables you eat are grown using fertilizer made from the ground up and dried blood guts and bones of slaughtered livestock and fish.

[@justsomerandomname2067]

@@bannedaccount540 no, not "as much". Ofc they are contributing to animals suffering, they are also contributing to human suffering, theres no escaping that. They are contributing to animal suffering significantly less than non vegans do. Less crops are needed on a vegan diet than on a omnivorous diet (basically you have to feed a cow for YEARS in order to produce a couple of steaks), so Anna LA are contributing to less animal suffering in growing plant and are not contributing at all to animal farming.

[@emmanarotzky6565]

It’s because everyone is mortal so we know dying is inevitable, so “death” on its own doesn’t sound that bad, but suffering isn’t inevitable so that’s more obviously a choice to do something wrong.

[@MrMortadeloyfilemon]

how is it not immoral to take a life unnecessarily....sorry but that one doesn't fly. the fact that they were bred to be food doesn't make it moral to kill them, that's our problem with our superiority complex@@justsomerandomname2067

[@30daymissionman]

I always respect people that can question their own perspective and can at least follow a logical pathway that someone else lays out. I hope a seed has been planted and he makes the change

[@jedex4645]

ok, so human wellbeing is what matters. to say animal wellbeing is anywhere near close would mean you can not justify surviving, as your life comes at the cost of 1000s of animals when farming plants across your whole life. and nobody just wants to survive, with just enough food, water, warmth and oxygen. we want extra pleasures, like modern tech, that comes at the cost of animal cruelty. it clearly follows that this can be extend to eating meat, for taste pleasure. however some people get increased wellbeing from avoiding animal products. before you jump to vegan is whats best for human wellbeing, if you are not doing it for the animals is it even vegan? its possible being plant based might lead to greater human wellbeing in the future, but this is only a maybe. right now the majority of people get increased wellbeing from eating tasty foods like meat. also any argument for veganism for the sake of humans is only ever a reason to change practices or reduce consumption. veganism debunked. do you respect yourself?

[@brixan...]

@@jedex4645 a straw man is this fallacy where you make up weak argument that's easy to take down. No one said animal wellbeing is "even close" to human wellbeing, and no one said human wellbeing matters either. If you have to make up arguments, it's pretty clear that you have no good response to real vegan arguments. It's sad

[@jedex4645]

@@brixan... why not "take down" what i said then? isn't the whole vegan argument that animals think and feel similar or the same as us, therefore we should care about there wellbeing similar or the same as us? if its something else to you, please explain. i said "human wellbeing matters"... the OP mentioned "a logical pathway that someone else lays out". so thats what i gave. everything i said follows from this. how did you not realise that? did you actually think i was arguing against it? you appear to be projecting your lack of good arguments and sadness on to me. you didn't address anything i actually said, other than pretending "no one said that", which is obviously said. i gave the justification for eating meat, by prioritising human wellbeing, something you have to do to justify surviving and using modern tech, like being on youtube. it clearly follows. veganism debunked. can you bring yourself to accept it now? or are you so attached to a silly word that you will keep avoiding all logic and reality desperately dancing around to do so. i know the answer. truly fascinating.

[@brixan...]

@@jedex4645 here's how it works: if we don't need to inflict suffering onto sentient beings, we shouldn't. That's the proposition. You should respond to that, as you are trying to create a counter-argument to veganism.

[@jedex4645]

@@brixan... which is caring for their wellbeing, like i said. but anyway... it makes no sense to just say "if you don't need to. you don't "need to" do anything. you have to attach something you "need to" do it for. since you attached nothing, you don't "need to" cause any suffering. you can not justify living from this position, or using any modern tech like being on youtube. veganism debunked. accept it now? or more dancing?

[@yungpunk3522]

Seem's like a nice dude but his refusal to accept that horrible things are horrible, despite the context, is tiring. "Yeah rape is bad.....but theres always context"

[@yungpunk3522]

@Paul Semmens With that retarded logic, having sex with someone while they sleep isn't rape. Yes, nonconsensual insemination of a cow is rape

[@mrcoatsworth429]

I mean, he's not entirely wrong. Killing a human is bad. Killing a human in self-defense is morally justified. The context makes a difference. But then he refuses to look at the context, which in the case of the majority of the western world is killing animals for food, which is not needed anymore.

[@mrcoatsworth429]

@Paul Semmens what part of my comment are you referring to?

[@Zybran93]

yeah problem of most talks about veganism. In my opinion eating meat is something natural, but in our life and the way we consume its anything but natural and so far I didnt hear one convincing argument against veganism, its just the morally better choice. Eating meat is okay, but you need to accept that you consume and torture the animal just to enjoy not to survive.

[@Zybran93]

@Paul Semmens sure I will explain a random dude on the internet, that neither takes the effort to write anything substantial nor useful, what I know about moral.

[@ST-gd4eq]

Great conversation, Ed. Good to see that the guy was open-minded and that you likely planted some seeds in his mind in terms of animal welfare.

[@garibaldi54]

But as usual it exposed the arrogance of the general population in terms of believing that they have a natural right to have dominion over animals.

[@v.a.n.e.]

don't be tricked; everything is staged anyway.

[@ST-gd4eq]

@@v.a.n.e. 🤣🤣🤣 I will take the subtle admission that you think Ed did really well. So much so, that you have to hallucinate that Ed staged it. It's the small victories.

[@v.a.n.e.]

​@@ST-gd4eq sure, you may take it that way, but you'd be wrong; staged interviews work best when both parties feel like they're winning: the audience will be more animated than if just one side is convincingly better. the fact that it is staged usually goes unnoticed.

[@ST-gd4eq]

@@v.a.n.e. okay, and the moon is made of cheese. Any other conspiracies you want to trot out professor?

[@alisiademi]

Last time I was this early America still had bloodlust

[@vaurien3694]

loooool

[@vegNotWoke]

the common problem with typical ignorant like this guy , is that they think that the animals only experience some" kind of discomfort "at slaughterhouses. They have no clue, that their lives, from first breath to the last, are actually worse than their deaths. Just the transport to slaughterhouse is a pure hell nightmare, where the suffering they go through is even impossible to describe.

[@dailydoseofblues7708]

Have you gone through it?

[@lasemillanadamas7179]

I'm pretty sure that if you forced everyone in the world to witness what they go through, at least about 90ish% of them would continue to eat meat regardless.

[@itsdaynesh]

I loved how you handled the question about legality. It's always a tricky one to deal with, primarily because it can quickly derail the conversation and lead whoever you are speaking with to dismiss you as some loony heretic that they simply disagree with on a fundamental level. Moreover, I also find it important to emphasize that there will never be any political/legal movement on animal rights until it becomes a popular public opinion. Much love, Ed!

[@vegout4085]

If you ever get charged with auto theft, just try telling the judge that you could have stolen 10 cars, but you only stole one. See how moral the judge thinks you are.

[@sebastijan5894]

That is not comparable. One is ilegal, the other one is not.

[@80slimshadys]

@@sebastijan5894 Law hasn't got much to do with it, It's not that it being legal justifies the act. Both are stealing something that isn't yours to take, just because a certain amount of people think it's ok to take one but not the other that doesn't make it ok. That's an appeal to popularity fallacy.

[@sebastijan5894]

@@80slimshadys I highly disagree. First of, I subscribe to the philosophy that the laws are moral questions that most of the society agrees on while the rest are left up to individuals. You have full freedom then to think that eating animals is wrong while I have full freedom to think it’s okay. If one day the majority would think that consuming animals is wrong, the laws would change, but there will never be that many people going against their omnivore nature. I disagree that I am taking anything that doesn’t belong to me. I never even said I think it belongs to me in the first place. But the air and the water and the plants don’t belong to me either, I still consume them and one day the nature will consume me back, it’s all part of the natural process that humans are mentally detached from nowadays.

[@80slimshadys]

@@sebastijan5894 So can you confirm for me that you think laws dictate morality, and what is legal is thus therefore always moral?

[@TenTempeh]

@@sebastijan5894 'don't take more than what you need' would say aboriginal cultures. People not that detached from the natural process. And taking an animal is by far taking way more than what is needed in a matter of ressources. If you add to that the suffering of those individuals... Being omnivore is way more detached to nature than being vegan.

[@alexaarenstrup2883]

nothing against the student here but he seems to be talking a lot without actually saying anything

[@yungpunk3522]

"There's always context......."

[@alexaarenstrup2883]

@@yungpunk3522 reminds me of when I was 11 years old and wanted everyone to think I was super smart

[@kayleeslater6345]

Honestly a lot of his guests talk without saying much 😂 I don’t blame them it’s hard to confront 20 ish years of social conditioning and realizing you don’t have a solid argument for it on camera

[@constantchange1145]

Exsctly, its like trying to justify exploitation of humans. Mental gymnastics that ultimately goes nowhere realistic​@@kayleeslater6345

[@somethingor]

I really appreciate the fact that once a “debate” gets to somebody saying they’ll reduce their consumption of animal flesh/byproducts, that Ed continues debating that. If an activist were to let someone get comfortable with the idea of reductionism, they’re more likely to never make that step towards veganism. They’re likely more prone to go back to the total carnist way. So good on Ed. ✌️❤️

[@Assassin99584]

Carnism tho Hypocrite

[@loganbrown9845]

Same. I noticed the student finally getting uncomfortable and defensive once Ed reached the threshold of his unjustified behavior. He'd had much of this conversation with himself already, but was unwilling to evaluate HIS choices related to 'reduction' once Ed pushed him past his point of comfort.

[@dalnoke9928]

Damn, your last point about “cheating” really struck me. I grew up vegetarian and the last couple of years I’ve been fully vegan at home, but allowing myself certain dairy-cheats when eating out or at family dinners. I will admit: Living cheeseless can sometimes be HARD! But I now have Ed’s words from this video as a note on my fridge as a daily reminder: It’s not myself I’m cheating on, it’s the animals!

[@somethingor]

@Anon Anon Or they get the good vegan cheese… like Violife or Miyoko’s. I can’t believe how many times I’ve seen cheese as a reason to not go vegan. My dudes, we have so many other cheese replacements readily available for purchase. Also so many recipes on how to make your own delicious cheese replacements. But yes Anon Anon has a point. Because I never missed cheese when I went vegan - but that vegan umami made it so easy to go vegan. Edit: let’s not forget nutritional yeast and asian mushroom seasoning! The mushroom seasoning is the ultimate form of umami and satisfaction.

[@minimal-vegan]

Indirectly but ultimately also cheating on oneself, their own offspring, the world & everybody on it, because of environment, climate change, global health, zoonotic diseases & epidemics/pandemics, antibiotic resistance (deaths supposed to surpass cancer deaths), loss of biodiversity …

[@dalnoke9928]

@Anon Anon yes there are plenty delicious vegan umami foods. But it will still remain difficult in certain situations, like having pizza with friends and seeing everyone’s cheesy slices next to my marinara… I guess I need more vegan friends! 😁

[@Tinky1rs]

@@somethingor I cannot say I agree. Cheese is definitely something I struggle with. I have tried various vegan cheeses but none go beyond cheese product level. They can pass when compared to a cheese product like on fast food hamburgers or cheese sticks, but a slice cannot compare to real Gouda or Cheddar. Nutritional yeast is a good aid for hard, strong cheeses; but in no way a substitute. Put in various foods, vegan cheese just doesn't have the same effect as true Italian cheese like Grana Padano/parmigiano reggiano, or goudas.

[@dalnoke9928]

@Anon Anon no need to become sarcastic. I think it’s important to acknowledge that abstaining from certain things and forming new habits can be difficult, and that everyone is on their own path.

[@ryank4997]

The person chilling on the hammock in the background getting a free live debate. Vibes

[@pinsandneedles3]

Emotionally, I'm *there*

[@carnismiscancer2108]

Veganism is rising and thriving while carnism is trying and dying! Keep fighting vegans! CHARGE!!!!

[@x-latetv-x6816]

Nope

[@labangrankvist2993]

@@x-latetv-x6816 it's an objective fact. Have fun being on the wrong side of history (provided we don't all die in a Nuclear War within the next 50 years xP)

[@x-latetv-x6816]

@@labangrankvist2993 nope

[@elfullin]

@@x-latetv-x6816 yep

[@x-latetv-x6816]

@@elfullin nope

[@PogieJoe]

Keep 'em coming. This person did a nice job being open to the conversation.

[@cardanosource1625]

Earthling Ed, can you please write a "how to" book on the methods and concepts you personally implement to host a constructive conservation with non-vegans? I would buy this 100%. Considering the polarising world we currently live in, it seems like humans struggle to participate in "uncomfortable" conservations - and i think a step-by-step book on how to negotiate these conversation would be extremely helpful! Not only for the vegan movement, but for humanity as a whole!

[@Erickd87]

he did. there's a short free e-book on his site, check it out.

[@y-yyy]

I would recomment looking up "street epistemology" :)

[@sarahhenning5484]

It's not related to veganism but really has been a game changer in my life: nonviolent communication by Marshall B. Rosenberg. Definitely look into it if you haven't yet

[@gamegirl949]

It always feels like a bit of a gut punch when I reach the end of these conversations, and people are seemingly on board, and then they pitch the 'oh, I'll REDUCE!' If something is bad, it's not acceptable in any capacity!

[@wesleythompson3917]

Reduction matters and should not be ridiculed. Obviously becoming 100% vegan is better than reducing your animal product consumption, but it still makes a difference and should be acknowledged as such while encouraging the person to move further.

[@wesleythompson3917]

@Ryan Robinett 1. Even if true (it’s not), that is a ridiculous impossibility for most humans in developed nations. People do not have the land, time, or money to raise, care for, slaughter, and butcher enough food to confidently support a balanced diet for their family. To suggest that everyone become an animal farmer is an obvious absurdity that has no place in modern society. I live in an apartment. Where am I do raise my hogs. I work 40 hours a week. When am I to raise my hogs? It’s a useless talking point. 3. You are comparing the bare minimum animal subsistence lifestyle, to buying manufactured, chemically processed, imported plant based goods. The fair comparison is to look towards what a plant based diet would like with regard to bare subsistence. Obviously, maintaining a garden with a few types of vegetables is easier and cheaper than maintaining farm animals, whom you already have to buy plant based foods for. Bolstering said garden with buying locally grown fruits, grains, and vegetables from a farmers market (which are very prevalent) makes an obviously more sustainable diet than raising livestock. 4. Let’s look at a more direct comparison. Let’s say I have a few pigs and chickens. Call it a small group of backyard hens (8) a few pigs (2), and maybe one single dairy cow to support a small family. According to the state of Oklahoma, this very small group of animals would require 49 pounds of feed per day to sustain. I’ll say it again. To maintain these animals, it requires a minimum of 49 pounds of plants, every single day. Meanwhile, a family of 5 humans requires only 15-25 pounds of food per day with average nutritional density. Conclusively, this means that participating in your “animal based subsistence” means that you are not only raising and slaughtering animals unnecessarily, but you are also paying for more plants to be grown than you would be on a vegan diet. Subsisting on and raising animals, purchasing feed, etc. = More death AND more crops, more land use, more environmental damage. Subsisting on and maintaining a garden, and buying locally sourced goods = less death, less crops, less land use, less environmental damage. Please contend with and provide feedback on each of these points sequentially (as I’ve done for you) if you’d like to have an honest discussion.

[@wesleythompson3917]

@Ryan Robinett Let’s take this one step at a time. The first obvious inconsistency is that you said that you have been a subsistent vegan for 40 years. You then say “no working algorithm of subsistence is vegan only.” So are you or are you not a subsistent vegan?

[@wesleythompson3917]

@Ryan Robinett I asked you a yes or no question. Why have you ignored it?

[@llamatreee]

Abortion is considerably more evil than eating meat

[@craigo5030]

So many questions Ed asks his answer is “Theres always context” Why is it so hard to agree that what happens is wrong

[@FixdalOK]

But bloodlust, tho...🤔

[@sexyned99]

I think it is probably because agreeing it is wrong means accepting that he has been doing something wrong for his whole life. And more importantly, it means he either needs to change, or is a hypocrate. It seems that this is the primary reluctance for most meat eaters. They will do as much mental gymnastics as possible to avoid admitting that they have been doing something wrong.

[@davidcrosier2761]

I guess because fully accepting the moral arguments means that you have to take personal responsibility and change. That's a step that this guy seems frightened of. So he prefers to turn away from the moral issues and consequences..

[@xKumei]

It sounded like he agreed it's wrong and was just more thinking about things in terms of practicality. As much as I hate it, it's hard for some people to change their habits cold turkey. I think as long is this conversation is still in his mind, he'll continue to meet himself where he is at making a few changes at a time. It's kind of like how a lot of vegans start out as vegetarian.

[@chipandchap100]

Because agreeing would lead to change coming your way. People are afraid of change/leaving their comfort zone.

[@housevibez8828]

Independent smart people go vegan after seeing the truth! KZbin: Land Of Hope And Glory (Earthling Ed)

[@ReverendDr.Thomas]

Yes, Mr. Winters’ understanding of metaethics is beyond reproach, which explains why he condones the MURDER of poor, innocent humans before they have the opportunity to even see the light of day. 👶 The fact that he repeatedly asserts that "humans are animals" shows what an abject hypocrite is that MURDEROUS sinner. 😩 Furthermore, it is debatable whether Ed is truly vegan in his outlook, since he recently stated on the national television programme, GBNews, that he believes we ought NOT to ban animal agriculture! kzbin.info/www/bejne/iZ2YeKOugb2hq6s (Go to the 8:15 mark).

[@GarudaLegends]

going vegan is not independent, when veganism is a group of uneducated and indoctrinated hippies. not smart at all, and not independent

[@fannyboni472]

@Aaron Loos correct.

[@vaurien3694]

@Aaron Loos What is incorrect about their statement? Would you like to elaborate?

[@iamnoone6118]

@Aaron Loos You know nothing of what a proper human diet looks like. You would be aware of that if you were smart and independent.

[@LouisGedo]

OMG ..........his first argument is *Lions behave like lions therefore humans should behave like lions THO* 🙄 🙄 🙄 🙄 Also, 15:17 zzzzzzzzzzzactly.......... *There's no better path toward a more ethical society than through individual responsibility and individuals changing their own behavior.* Institutional and collective change *can NOT* happen without individuals first making changes in their own behavior. *Create a Better 🌎 and a Better You by..................Living Vegan* 💜

[@jillhollon768]

I agree!! 😁👍😉💯💚

[@LouisGedo]

@@jillhollon768 Hi sweetie! Long time no see........I think

[@jillhollon768]

@@LouisGedo That's right.. It's been awhile.. I hope you're doing well!! I'm hanging in there!! Lol

[@thomasmason9827]

I'd like to see you vegans try to pry a steak sandwich from my hands it won't go well.

[@LouisGedo]

@@thomasmason9827 😆 🤣 😂 Okay, whatever you say, sweetie.

[@RawVeganAthleteAndreas]

In a conscious world, everything that harms or kills other living beings should actually be disallowed. But most people unfortunately do not think so, because they were manipulated too much and do only what the great mass of people does.

[@RawVeganAthleteAndreas]

@Aaron Loos Hey very good question. But I just hope you don't use this "all or nothing" question in general to do nothing at all =) But if you can generally reduce the suffering in this by say 95% by eating a whole plant based diet (no like meat crap etc), then that's a good thing or not? If you just consider that we first grow the "food" for the animals to then feed them for months and years instead of simply consuming everything directly. We humans also live in all climates where not everyone could feed on nature alone. For that reason alone, we need large-scale farming for potatoes, lentils, etc.. which, Yes you are right, also kills small animals. Everyone should try to do as little harm as possible with his consumption. Most people behave unfortunately, as in "Matrix 1" beautifully said, like a virus.

[@criska3785]

@@RawVeganAthleteAndreas 👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

[@justinberber9848]

@@RawVeganAthleteAndreas What about the suffering veganism causes humans? There's a reason the vast majority of people who go vegan revert back to eating animals - suffering. Vegans seem to care more about the wellbeing of chickens than they do their fellow man. If you want to suffer eating nothing plants, that's your choice, but don't try to foist your nutrient deficient diet on the rest of us.

[@garibaldi54]

@@justinberber9848 Lol clearly you have no experience of actual suffering if you think eating plants qualifies as it.

[@GarudaLegends]

so lets put all meat eaters in prison from sharks, to basically all fish, dogs, cats, chickens, other birds, basically all reptiles, basical all amphibians, humans, rodents, ect.... in a sane world, you would be in a straight jacket

[@alisiademi]

These really nice, honest, and smart people who still have apathy and don't even really think the unnecessary violence is happening scare me. They are the ones that need to visit a slaughterhouse, or at least watch Dominion. But a refreshing change after the psychopaths you've been talking to nonetheless lol

[@Lavfibra]

Insulting those people calling them psychopaths and "nice honest and smart" ironically doesn't make you look better though. No one was born "vegan", so the way to go is to discuss and talk and non insult like you're doing right now. You're doing the opposite of what it's needed.

[@alisiademi]

@@Lavfibra you're actually making a false assumption I was being genuine when I said nice, honest and smart. It's easy to read things into comments and jump to false conclusions. Psychopath isn't an insult on behalf of the people who were on here on previous videos talking about not caring about the suffering of others, it's merely an observation, and I was not calling this man a psychopath I was calling him nice, honest and smart (genuinely). I don't know about you but I'm more offended by people having no empathy for the killing of others than I am by labeling a psychopath as a psychopath

[@Assassin99584]

Typical vegan cult nonsense and hypocrisy

[@addison4785]

my favorite psychopath was the bloodlusting engineer💞gotta love that guy/s

[@alisiademi]

@@addison4785 yes that debate is burned in my brain

[@Andreas01]

My arguments are usually that the animals are filters for nutrients. Meaning that we feed the animals with food we can consume ourselfs. All amino acids that we need, originates in plants, so why not eat the source? And yes, it would be nice to see meat illegal.

[@HunterBelkiran]

@Aaron Loos You really think the majority of food we feed to animals is the inedible byproduct of crop production? That's a small portion of it. The point really is that we dedicate masses of land to grow plants for animals, when in reality we could dedicate that land to grow a variety of plant-based foods for human consumption instead.

[@minimal-vegan]

it’s about not causing unnecessary harm

[@minimal-vegan]

Old red herring this probably insincere question is 🧌🙄 Only the sith deal in absolutes 🖖🏼 Education & inner change are key, not bans. The very definition of veganism is to avoid animal exploitation & cruelty "as far as is possible and practicable". No, crop production does not cause unnecessary harm when they’re being used efficiently = no more than needed to feed us. Pretty simply, animal products are very inefficient in providing energy with respect to resources. Animal agriculture requires 20-times the land for the animals & especially for their feed to produce the same amount of calories compared to plant foods. 83% of the global agricultural land is used to produce animal products which only supply 18% of the consumed calories! A plant based food system provides 1.6x the calories and 1.22x the protein on 1/3 of the agricultural land today - 2/3 of the land can be re-used, re-wilded. In essence, the animals themself suffer harm and require way more crops for their feed. So, there’s the option of reducing the harm to a minimum. More tangents? No, just because we cannot reduce harm to zero does not mean we shouldn't do what we can to reduce harm where we can - firefighters still attempt rescuing trapped people, even when they know they can’t save everybody in a burning building. And no, pastures only works for cows; pigs & chickens etc don’t eat grass and require loads of feed.

[@rondarkman.]

@daniel bel Nope it's about vegan youtubers making a fortune of telling vegans what they want to hear

[@minimal-vegan]

yeah, probably way more than what the meat, dairy & egg industries are getting alone from subsidies payed by everyone’s taxes 🫠 may contain traces of sarcasm 🌱

[@TeamC4D]

Powerful debate Ed. Thank you for the upload.

[@angelpurchon7160]

I will always watch you Ed because even though these arguments are so repetitive it kinda bores me, I see that every conversation you battle it from a new angle that can integrate old angles and it just really forms substance for securely arguing my point in similar debates

[@downwithtrudeau]

Ed you're arguments are always full of logic and unparalleled patience with people. I think that speaks to their subconscious. Your videos converted me! 🙂

[@Assassin99584]

Delusion

[@queenkurumi8504]

Ed you're arguments are always full of Stupidity and toxic .)

[@Scor-ah]

We need to think of not only the animal suffering but the human suffering that goes on from consuming animal products. We have been lied to for over a century about healthy it is to eat animal flesh ...that is a real crime.

[@Assassin99584]

Flesh tho

[@Scor-ah]

@@Assassin99584 gross....

[@AtypicalPaul]

This guy is unfortunately very misinformed. Factory farming now is horrible, the worst in modern history.

[@jameslyon9170]

You claim he is misinformed about factory farming but have you spent any time at all with a farmer At least he admits to not having done so.Today's society is so far removed from how there food is produced. And yet parts of it claim to know better than those that do until you become informed and by that I mean try some devil's advocacy learn about the other side in depth then make real decisions do some animal behavior study all these things will make you a more rounded person with some real knowledge.

[@Simon-Smith.]

Great conversation as always.

[@maleperson2449]

Been vegan for ages but I've been binge watching your videos lately, Ed. You are so cathartic to listen to. Very accurate and concise with your language. What a great speaker. This is how I aspire to sound when people ask me why I'm vegan.

[@jonjonwp]

He's. smart and likeable but I see no genuine empathy. Did he really show any interest in what these animals go through? No he didn't. I hate to criticise Ed but his waving his arm around constantly is very distracting.

[@vegan4theanimals]

As a vegan for the animals for nearly two years, I'm vegan for life.

[@ramiebay1685]

Haha you won't be. 80% plus go back to meat. It's only a matter of time

[@vegan4theanimals]

@@ramiebay1685 you're a subscriber just here to harass me? That sounds like a really invaluable way to spend your time, especially considering as how you're wrong.

[@queenkurumi8504]

@@vegan4theanimals You won't be vegan for long trust me ;)

[@vegan4theanimals]

@@queenkurumi8504please tell me why, because I've been healthier and happier since going vegan, why would I want to be less happy and less healthy? Also, why would I want to go back to paying for animals to be needlessly tortured? Yeah, I don't think so.

[@ramiebay1685]

@@vegan4theanimals you will go back bcos your body will start falling apart. You will have aches in all your joints, your brain will actually stop functioning fully and you will start to crave meat. I know this bcos I was a vegan for 5 years. This is the case with a handful of vegans I use to know too. You need meat it's really that simple. Yeah its peak for the animals but that's just life.

[@Oracle_Speaks]

if you are on UCSD Campus you should try "Plant Power Fast Food" they have a small shop on campus... It was created in San Diego.

[@darwinsiu3913]

Great conversation bro💚💚

[@bvfckyou]

I think making people aware of good plant based alternative cheeses, meats etc would help

[@GarudaLegends]

it tastes like catfood, chemicals, or just trash.

[@bvfckyou]

@@GarudaLegends not true. Many brands taste different but making fresh is also a good idea and very delicious

[@garibaldi54]

@@GarudaLegends I'm guessing you've never actually eaten either.

[@GarudaLegends]

@@bvfckyou i was a vegetarian in the 90's for 2 years. nothing beats a homemade veggie burger. no matter what the brand of these vegan mock meat is, it is aggressively unappetizing. the smell is horrendous, it has the worse after taste, and literally taste like it is dog/cat food, repackaged. dont even get me started on how unhealthy these mock meats are.

[@GarudaLegends]

@@main3182 if you cant taste the difference, then you have pour taste buds. i love the taste of food and can easily tell the difference between meat and cat food

[@rainedyani8505]

He admits that morality requires causing least harm and suffering, and that is veganism. Good thing he also admits that he is unwilling to do so. Good intentions - and just thinking about it - are not enough. Hopefully this convo will stay with him and he’ll decide to take responsibility. Great job, Ed. 👍

[@llamatreee]

Hopefully you’re anti-abortion and don’t use a smart phone

[@thunderingox6963]

I love the way you patiently and politely point out the flaws in their logic to bring them to a point where making small changes is not only possible but easy. Thank you Ed!🙏💚🌱 PS: Your book is perfect!

[@lawrencejorgensen2914]

Good convo!

[@jasonito23]

People haven't lived in the wild for thousands of years yet still got people trying to say what goes on in the wild is applicable to human beings.

[@fishfeelpain7764]

It's whatever helps them sleep at night.

[@remotefaith]

We lived in the wild for hundreds of thousands though

[@jasonito23]

@@remotefaith most of us can't even catch a mouse in the wild now.

[@rondarkman.]

@@jasonito23 And most vegans could not grow their own food

[@jasonito23]

@@rondarkman. most people in general can't grow their own food. Not in urban areas.

[@krishnaveganathar]

Though he considers ethics, he doesn’t respect the animals. As a 25 year activist, I’m not as optimistic as many of the commenters here. Most people are too selfish and will fiercely defend their “right” to killing. They can’t accept that their parents and grandparents were so wrong on this.

[@tom4412]

Let this be a lesson to any youngsters thinking about being a vegan activist. This guy has just wasted 25 years of his life. He might as well of murdered a couple of horrible people.

[@SnooHD]

Got to trust ya taste buts. They don't lie! This is always the result i get when talking with people about this subject, it tastes to good to not do it. Personal pleasure is worth more then the life of other beings.

[@lmelior]

Great answer to the question of legality! I'm not sure the argument to focus on the effect on individual animals (once you get someone to take the stance that reducing suffering is preferable but they aren't ready to commit) is a very strong argument; it doesn't seem to hit as hard as the others. I love the day-by-day, meal-by-meal bit after that, though, and if you slip up, keep going. That idea has been a huge help for me! I've signed up for the veganuary thing and saw that advice there, too.

[@clarecurtis36]

Another wonderful debate, thank you Ed for always expressing your message with patience and eloquence. I watch your videos every day to learn more about how to express these ideas.

[@Lucas-hb1uq]

Ed, it’s so impressive how you managed to get a spokesperson from Adidas to debate you! Really moving up the ranks!

[@myrrysmaikku]

What an honest and pleasant guy, many people say they’ll think about it more later and this time i also believe it

[@LisaCooper-thevegan-123]

Fantastic debate Ed! I love you 😊👏🙏♥️♥️♥️

[@SacredAmbulance]

I think that most people's daily decisions and actions are not dictated by what they think is moral but by how they feel

[@sarast.dennis391]

love these videos. thank you ed for working so hard to spread the vegan message and help create positive change in the world. we (fellow vegans) are so grateful for you!!!

[@Vegan4Life_]

Thanks, Ed!

[@lemonyknit8509]

Really liked this discussion👏🌱

[@brunocyclist]

Thank you Ed for all your work. And big respect for your calm, logical and eloquent communication skills!

[@Cytronik]

Making it illegal to consume meat? Sounds like a decet idea actually.

[@rahtsnake144]

hopefully we'll get there soon!

[@thomasjefferson5076]

There will be too much resistance. We arent there as a society yet. I understand the desire to make it illegal, but in terms of actually making a positive change, I think suggesting that will make people even more resistant to the idea of giving up animal products.

[@rahtsnake144]

@@thomasjefferson5076 when we get to around 25% of the population as vegan, it will snowball and laws won't be too far behind.

[@ramiebay1685]

You lot are creeps

[@queenkurumi8504]

@@rahtsnake144 Than we eat vegan peoples after ;)

[@zoelopez3993]

it’s almost funny watching these videos as a vegan. the way that these grown people have absolutely no clue what happens in slaughter houses and farms. the way that the whole debate could have been over if ed pulled up a video from dominion when he mentioned that he ‘heard’ slaughter houses are humane

[@nevis4567]

Excellent argument at the end on reduction distancing ourselves from the harm we cause. I'm gonna use that!

[@erikagravino1558]

Ed, your debate skills are so good. Great job here.

[@idowebwork]

Yes! It's for the animals. When we frame things from their perspective, it's impossible to frame reducing as the way to go.

[@spyroyt88]

Yes but you are then suffering if you want a vegan world. Life is not a place of utopia with no harm

[@idowebwork]

@@spyroyt88 🤥Are you serious? Suffering? I still eat 3 meals a day & do what I did pre-vegan minus the suffering to animals. So it's not a utopia without harm so that means cause the most harm possible? Again are you serious?

[@Alaskaventureswithbrodie]

I think meat should be illegal!

[@queenkurumi8504]

I think veganism should be illegal ;)

[@rondarkman.]

Its not and it's everywhere how good is that

[@Dribbles88]

great vid and civil.

[@whitneydceleste]

I love this- this dude literally answered all his own questions ✌️👏🙌 well done ed, just talking to people can open their eyes! And this dude was ready to here it 😃

[@hugomarquez3189]

Ed, I think you should debate next the liver king guy! Are these people even worth debating?

[@vaurien3694]

I'd love that! I believe it would be worth debating him - not to change his mind or to convert him, that's impossible, I believe, but rather to reach his followers. I feel like "bystanders" of debates are often more open to the arguments for veganism than the participants.

[@michaelrch]

18:50 so after all that, he retreats to beard-stroking "what is 'morality'" deflection. Sounds to me like he needs to see Dominion and Earthlings.

[@adamwood87]

right before that, 18:30, he says he appreciates the points Ed made, and that it made him think; i don't believe it was a dodge. what it sounds like is he'll have to question his morals the next time he wants to buy meat/eggs/dairy. i have hope for this guy, but yes, watching Earthlings, Dominion or any footage of the horror that happens in a slaughterhouse would fix him fast.

[@danielbarber9423]

Right at the end the word imagination mentioned, it can be used responsibly or not . It's the tool everyone has to change. It the lack of imagination , that's the reason people don't change themselves

[@worldwideweather852]

Brilliantly spoken Ed!!

[@Ryan-vj1ts]

It’s funny how people say they enjoy the taste of eggs and meat , technically they enjoy the taste of plants , they put seasoning on all of these. Try eating meat with zero seasoning “plants” it would taste completely different 🤢🤮

[@sebastijan5894]

Meat is pretty damn delicious even without any seasoning

[@Unmasking_Viandalisme]

Salt is the main seasoning & NaCl (Sodium Chloride) doesn't come from plants! Pepper comes from plants but is far less used. I like both but if I could choose only one, it would be salt! Cod loin, which is naturally salty, tastes fantastic on its own, after just a few minutes of gentle simmering (plants not required)! Beef & scrambled eggs (traditional, astronaut's breakfast) does require the addition of a little salt, IMO.

[@rondarkman.]

No a5 waygu is fine with nothing

[@Unmasking_Viandalisme]

@@rondarkman. ~£430/kg, ex. delivery, for fillet.😨

[@Mag_1418]

Seeds planted. Great discussion!

[@rondarkman.]

If that makes you feel like you are achieving something with this diet, good for you

[@Balkac]

Hooray, somebody smart and intelligent again! Very nice debate. Absolutely well explained about the individual vs legal prospect in the end.

[@FennavanDam]

See you soon at the Vegan Camp Out Ed! Can’t wait to see and maybe meet you 💚

[@rondarkman.]

Cringe

[@KellySmunt303]

It does my head in when it's a down to earth, clever person that is arguing to continue the suffering of animals. 😕

[@rondarkman.]

Meh it's food

[@KellySmunt303]

@@rondarkman. your mums food

[@rondarkman.]

@Emile Henry Incorrect she is on my cabinet at home in a pile of ash after years of getting destroyed by cancer Rest her soul

[@KellySmunt303]

Lol shame you're not in there with her. 🤣

[@rondarkman.]

@Emile Henry Very vegan of you ,brave warrior let's hope you never have a family member go through that, even though you are a putrid lowlife piece of garbage I still wouldn't wish these things apon you

[@user-px6qc5ec9n]

He was eager to run away

[@rondarkman.]

And eat good meat

[@LisaCooper-thevegan-123]

God bless you Ed!🙏👍♥️♥️♥️

[@YANA-fe9ln]

Great video

[@ChaseAvior]

Slaughter is animal cruelty. Ban meat.

[@queenkurumi8504]

Ban Vegans! ;)

[@reesecarr2105]

I want to say something to this student, Please watch Dominion, earthlings, see what you are eating, and what your choices are doing to animals,. GREAT JOB ED ♥🌿♥

[@reesecarr2105]

do you know how much plant food your meat eats>>? most crops are grown to feed animals. there would be so much less suffering if everyone were VEGAN, FACT>

[@reesecarr2105]

you are wrong again! you have a computer look up how many animals are killed during the production of plants, and then look up how many land, and sea animals are being slaughtered, the number is staggering!!! you are so off!! stop contributing to the suffering!

[@reesecarr2105]

I see your just un educated, poor thing....

[@queenkurumi8504]

Dominion is a joke for me :)

[@reesecarr2105]

@@queenkurumi8504 that is because you are evil

[@therebelle66]

The way the debate was handled by both people was kind of great

[@VeganBrianAnimalActivist]

keep going ED, awesome work

[@VeganSemihCyprus33]

You can see him trying to come up with new excuses each time he realizes that there is no excuse for animal abuse 😂 Would be funny to watch if there were no lives and suffering at stake!

[@rondarkman.]

It's food

[@timetodiechris2458]

Animals are food

[@teassea]

Once again another unwillingness to make the change based solely on palpable pleasure.

[@himpcreations6715]

thank you, Ed

[@cIeetz]

I think the issue with slaughter houses is, it doesnt replicate the fear / endorphin releasing molecules in the body when an animal gets hunted in the wild. The animal is literally standing there sometimes for hours sometimes for days on end, knowing its probly about to die. Theres ugly vibrations all in the atmosphere and its just a hell-istic experience for that soul/animal to go through . They can hear their counterparts screaming as they are killed and they have no chance to do anything about it. Its not like in the wild where the animal has a chance to RUN FREE, RUN - OH I THINK IM GONA MAKE IT. - Then they get caught, the endorphins release to prevent them from feeling pain, and their spirit releases. When an animal is killed in captivity, unless its by a gun to the head while it roams in a field, its a terrible experience. We can do better.

[@TheWindWaker134]

This is f*cking amazing.

[@VeganSemihCyprus33]

Liked the guy, he was a decent person overall! He might consider veganism in the near future!

[@queenkurumi8504]

No he not ;)

[@DrAlexisM]

I love how Ed ends on “have a great life!” - it’s a brilliantly odd thing to say, and, in the context of a conversation about animal slaughter, is real _food_ for thought. (Pun intended).

[@kaylawatson8540]

obsessed with this series

[@timothys9288]

Hey Cameron. If you're looking at the comments. You like eggs? Try "Just Egg". It's a vegan egg substitute that cooks, looks and tastes better than eggs. Also has as much protein. You'll never go back to gross chicken periods again.

[@tom4412]

So your trying to tell me that some highly processed food is better for me and the environment than eggs

[@Assassin99584]

Periods tho

[@timothys9288]

@@tom4412 Yes. Just egg is just fine nutritionally. Eggs are disgusting. I don't know why anyone would want to eat them unless they were starving to death as an emergency food.

[@queenkurumi8504]

@@timothys9288 Eggs are disgusting? Sorry but vegan foods are disgusting eggs are delicious :)

[@timothys9288]

@@queenkurumi8504 Eggs are a bird's period. It's gross no matter what you say. Plants are not gross. If you like eggs you must like eating cooked snot and menstrual placenta. I'll go with African Mung Beans.

[@andreegabrielsson9667]

p cool guy. Welcome to veganism.

[@fishfeelpain7764]

Ed, you need a whiteboard.

[@dawn8542]

I love watching Ed's hands as he's explaining this. I've seen another video where the guy he was debating started taking on the same motions. Lol

[@alreadyvegan]

Is he sponsored by Adidas?

[@aaronmerkel5216]

“Animals eat other animals” Where is my carnist excuse bingo card?

[@queenkurumi8504]

And where is my vegan excuse bingo card ? :)

[@aaronmerkel5216]

@@queenkurumi8504 we don't need one

[@queenkurumi8504]

@@aaronmerkel5216 Oh yes you do because vegans only have excuses and a lot of bulls@it ;)

[@rondarkman.]

Yes they are food

[@Loagun]

I enjoy these debates and am glad this platform has chosen this route. I of course acknowledge there may/will be time and place where discussions could get heated... But the 'change my mind' series is excellent because in an immoral world it's not going to be easy for individuals to understand or recognize immorality at face value.( I'm not judging anyone in this video at all but rather making a general judgement on humanity, particularly the western '1st world's). Outright condemning unrecognized immorality will cause retaliation but this point of view 'changing' the vegans mind causes the meat eater to discover the immorality themselves.

[@Homo_sAPEien]

I would win in an argument against you.

[@gilbertpillbrow6978]

Vegans eat dead plants 😆

[@RENX5]

😆

[@RichardMin]

TAXES!!! Earthling Ed, you should say "Taxes. Extreme taxes on animal agriculture (and meats/fish at the grocery store)." That would solve everything and for... everyone, even the hardcore meat eaters. Environment, climate control, animal cruelty, pandemic, and health (Whole Food Plant-Based eating-- which is what I am on), all will be solved with taxes. The government will happy and individuals will, well, choose what they want to choose. And not just the USA either, and worldwide (which is how this conversation is going.) "Money" is what the world goes around us, so taxes on animal agriculture and meat, fishes etc. at the grocery store is good for all human beings and the animals, as well. Final answer: Taxes on animal agriculture.

[@queenkurumi8504]

In this Case we should say "Taxes to all Vegan restaurants :) That would solve everything and for... everyone, even the hardcore vegans who keep forcing peoples on this delusional cult! Environment, climate control, animal cruelty, pandemic, and health all will be solved with taxes for all vegans! ;) And not just the USA either, and worldwide (which is how this conversation is going.) so taxes on all Vegans and plant eaters Final answer: Taxes on all vegans! :)

[@RichardMin]

@@queenkurumi8504 🤣You're funny.

[@RichardMin]

@@queenkurumi8504 ... and taxes are for all people, not individual people, like, the vegans. 😅😆😉😊

[@queenkurumi8504]

@@RichardMin Sorry but Taxes on Vegans only 😉

[@RichardMin]

You are funny... again!🤣

[@fulminisrecovery1264]

Come to CSU Denver Ed!

[@sarahmcnulty5205]

Thank you Ed.